Potential Changes, Feedback Welcome

Started 14 Sep 2019
by gruenesschaf
in Planned Changes
None of these changes are scheduled for now but instead starting points to gather some feedback. The thread may or may not be split if feedback largely focuses on one aspect.

Changes that increase the TTK to very slightly push it away from the current caster only meta without touching resist debuffs or introducing charge that itself would require counter and then counter counter etc:

1) Add RR5 abilities
This would see the current (excepting necro) live rr5s, most of which are defensive in nature. It'll either be the intended rr5 ability per class or a choice from the RR5s of other classes of the same archetype (war, hero, arms being able to pick one of the 3 etc.)
2) Increase the con hp multiplier as champion levels did, something between cl 10 and 15 could work
3) Add con and hp overcap + fill gems (ie +8 con cap and +8 con in one) that can be bought for feathers / bp and added to existing accessory items
4) Increase PD and AoM to 39% at tier 9
5) Decrease WP and MoP to 25% at tier 9 and maybe add +1% (or scaling and ending at ~15% at tier 9) per tier to the minimum crit damage %

Archery changes:
1) Given that current 52 comp bow spec represents 100%, add a custom multiplier that starts below 100% and scales up to ~115 or 125% based on base bow spec
2) Move volley to 45 or 50 archery, add 1 minute cooldown
3) Penetrating arrow: allow self bt penetration with reduced damage

Potentially a bad idea but potentially exactly what scouts would need:
Add some melee range ability to 50 bow spec with a 10min reuse that applies the static tempest effect on 1 target (3 sec stun + stun immunity reset), maybe restrict crit shot to never work against stunned targets to compensate.

Rework of the Repair / Durability System
There are a couple issues / missing features with the current repair / durability system and it practically has no impact whatsoever on anything:

1) Repair prices are based on the item price, in case of bp / feathers those prices count as copper resulting in those items being incredibly cheap to repair
2) Increased condition loss for too high items is practically meaningless as decay is only a couple times faster than it is on 50
3) Decay on 50 is too slow in general
4) Accessories don't decay at all
5) Focus is not affected by item condition
6) Item bonuses, including +skill, don't care about the item condition

To rectify the more pressing issues these changes are most likely:
1) Repair price will only take the item level into account and nothing else, not even item type
2) Add accessory decay
3) Add a feather / bp / gold way to repair durability
4) Item condition while above 90% will have no negative effect whatsoever but starting at <90% the 10% malus takes effect and it will also affect focus. This is meant to not "require" you to repair over and over again to be at peak efficiency but at the same time make repairs actually required
5) Reduce / disable bonuses once a certain condition is reached to make repairing required

Buff Shearing
If it is implemented it would be the same type of shears for all 3 realms, most likely the fast cast time and 1500 range with no damage variant. Due to the prevalence of self buffing, timed self buffs from items would then also be sheareable. If shears are added, conc spells would become uninterruptible.
Sat 14 Sep 2019 2:44 PM by florin
All sound interesting except the item repair changes
Sat 14 Sep 2019 2:48 PM by Svekt
Rip Classic. Honestly seeing this even tossed around the idea is a huge let down. In trying so hard to find reasons to keep playing here but at this point it smells just like toa over again. Not that my one vote counts but hell to the mf no on all of this.
Sat 14 Sep 2019 2:51 PM by Laec
buff shears and 1500 range on buffing plz
Sat 14 Sep 2019 2:51 PM by adlam
1500 range on buffs if shears go in please.
Sat 14 Sep 2019 2:52 PM by elninost0rm
Good shear changes. Will make the classes more interesting, but can we look at 1500 range, please? I can't think of a good gameplay reason to not include this, especially if you're going to make conc uninterruptible.
Sat 14 Sep 2019 2:56 PM by Ownnyn
1. Id love rr5s, but the option sounds better....some class rr5 are utter garbage.
2. Indifferent
3. Careful of cost, you can create larger gaps between haves and have nots. Not opposed, just cautious.
4. Thats overkill.....way way overkill.
5. Still overkill. Your shifting peoples ras from offensive to defensive. Youll increase the ttk so high that with even moderate healers people will live forever. If u wanna move ttk do it slowly, one change at a time. Ideas are generally ok by themselves if a little moderation is used....lord knows pd and aom could use a buff, but 39%? Ouch

Archery
1. Confused. U wanna increase damage of archery even higher? By 25% higher?
2. Sure. But one or the other, both would be a bit much
3. Sure

Scout stun reset
Nah...u really wanna give scouts 18+ sec stun?

Repairs
This whole topic is a waste of breath. Just get rid of decay period.

Buff shears
Theres no easy way to say it. Its a polarizing issue. Your gonna have lots upset no matter what you do. Its the nf of debate all over again. Theres pros and cons regardless of which side your own.
Sat 14 Sep 2019 2:56 PM by Gaven
Any chance you guys stop nerfing the smallest realm and actually give it a good boost? @gruenesschaf
Sat 14 Sep 2019 2:59 PM by [email protected]
Like the R5s but would love to see remedy for assasins. <only>
Sat 14 Sep 2019 3:03 PM by daoklover
Please dear god don’t implement most of these changes. I just came back and if any of this stuff is added to the game, I’m out for sure. I’ll just play Live which I don’t want to do.

Increasing TTK and higher hit points was one of the worst additions to DAoC.
Sat 14 Sep 2019 3:04 PM by GetUrHairDid
Why all the focus on making defenses so much stronger? larger zergs and high RR groups are just going to have even more of an advantage than they do now
Sat 14 Sep 2019 3:08 PM by Ownnyn
Also you mentioned wanting to move away from cater only metas...but i dont see specific ideas that counter that?
Sat 14 Sep 2019 3:10 PM by RiffRaff
these are not good changes...

if you force people to re-temp, especially people that have put the time/money into their current temps you will push people out of Phoenix. Just my opinion but this solely caters to folks with above average play time, isnt the whole purpose of this server to make it easier and less time consuming to get into the endgame pvp in a classic setting?
Sat 14 Sep 2019 3:13 PM by Gaven
having to do 30-40 casting for buffs is rpetty annoying aready and you wanna increase that?


Higher TTK would be good gettign 1 shotted for a lucky crit is not fun.
Sat 14 Sep 2019 3:19 PM by jonl
with the exception of rr5 ra's absolutely none of those changes are good
Sat 14 Sep 2019 3:19 PM by Ashenspire
TTK Changes -
1) Yes. Do this.
2) More HPs for the sturdier classes = better chance against full caster comps. Power management should be an issue for an all caster comp sometimes.
3) See above
4) This is too much.
5) I think the damage reduction part is fine, but I'm almost never for an increase in RNG's affects on a PvP game.

Archery - If Crit Shot penetrates a self bubble similar to Perforate Artery/Backstab (even at reduced damage) this would alleviate the majority of their issues. Maybe give them a Quick Nock a la Quick Cast.


Repairs: Condition should drop steadily. Durability should be removed. Yes, you should be punished for not repairing your gear often. No, you shouldn't have to ever replace a piece of gear because it's "broken."

Buff Shearing would go a long way to making Shaman and Clerics more interesting to play.
Sat 14 Sep 2019 3:20 PM by Sindralor
Adding remedy for assassin's would be killing the only skill expression the class has vs each other, I'm strongly against remedy
Sat 14 Sep 2019 3:25 PM by Svekt
Adding over cap means everyone is retemplating
Making some of these items cost feathers means more farming.
You want to add sheers but keep charges nerfed, so I'm limited to a single potion or nerfed charge and can't combo pot for 1 min out of combat.

This is a caster meta because of not all tanks having det + stoicism. Give the other two realms celerity and the det +stoicism. At this point anyone who builds a tank group goes mid because it makes sense: savages can quad hit, have access to 2handers without needing training in it, have full det + stoicism and can have celerity. You say it's only caster meta but the two caster realms are pulverized every NA night by a mid Zerg rolling 100+ deep andr is usually doubling either alb or hibs population in the frontier. They hit us with a full tank push Zerg.

This was a knee jerk patch to try and capture declining player base but it's all wrong sorry. Rethink this, dear god please .
Sat 14 Sep 2019 3:25 PM by Kloogyz
"push it away from the current caster only meta"

I'm not agree, this server is melee friendly since the beginning.
(If you think i am wrong, then you might not play healer against mongo tankers )
People playing casters because of zergs and nf in my opinion.

Theses changes, except the scout and repair ones, are not THE solution to makes people happy.
People will not stay because of this, people will not come back because of this, and i'm sure some will leave because the server toke a way way too far from the original idea.

Beside, if you think you can't let the server and the community live by his own and you need to apply changes, like BS did (and they killed their Daoc by themselves btw) i think the shears one can add another dimension ti the healers gameplay, then you need to move buffs ofc, range and interrupt, then you have to change the manapool or...... THERE WE GO, move to ToA because of mana uses.... tadaaaa.

RIP classic

Daoc is all about balance, this is why a single change can disturb everything, and this is also why i don't like too much customisations, it pushes the things way too far and end like AION 478Billions hps and people doing 2 Billion dmg/sec.

Another point of vue.

PS: Someone on the staff is able to create a completely new map we never played at? Then bye OF pros, bye NF pros, welcome another map/game.
And only focus on fixing the problem already existing instead of creating new ones.
Sat 14 Sep 2019 3:28 PM by Symond
Dear devs,

Please start with small changes if you want to reduce the impact of insta die caster debuff meta.

I would recommend:

1. Increase values of Divine Intervention, this is a major debuff train help.

2. Increase magic resists for all tanks by 5% this will help them not die to caster trains.

3. Remove ability to debuff below 0% resistances.

Try this first and see feedback.
Sat 14 Sep 2019 3:40 PM by Mordenaar
rr5 would be nice.

Only other thing to add is a reduced realm switch timer.
Sat 14 Sep 2019 3:42 PM by Sms
only one word can be used here and thats

YIKES
Sat 14 Sep 2019 3:43 PM by Sagz
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sat 14 Sep 2019 2:34 PM
None of these changes are scheduled for now but instead starting points to gather some feedback. The thread may or may not be split if feedback largely focuses on one aspect.

Changes that increase the TTK to very slightly push it away from the current caster only meta without touching resist debuffs or introducing charge that itself would require counter and then counter counter etc:

1) Add RR5 abilities
This would see the current (excepting necro) live rr5s, most of which are defensive in nature. It'll either be the intended rr5 ability per class or a choice from the RR5s of other classes of the same archetype (war, hero, arms being able to pick one of the 3 etc.)
2) Increase the con hp multiplier as champion levels did, something between cl 10 and 15 could work
3) Add con and hp overcap + fill gems (ie +8 con cap and +8 con in one) that can be bought for feathers / bp and added to existing accessory items
4) Increase PD and AoM to 39% at tier 9
5) Decrease WP and MoP to 25% at tier 9 and maybe add +1% (or scaling and ending at ~15% at tier 9) per tier to the minimum crit damage %

Archery changes:
1) Given that current 52 comp bow spec represents 100%, add a custom multiplier that starts below 100% and scales up to ~115 or 125% based on base bow spec
2) Move volley to 45 or 50 archery, add 1 minute cooldown
3) Penetrating arrow: allow self bt penetration with reduced damage

Potentially a bad idea but potentially exactly what scouts would need:
Add some melee range ability to 50 bow spec with a 10min reuse that applies the static tempest effect on 1 target (3 sec stun + stun immunity reset), maybe restrict crit shot to never work against stunned targets to compensate.

Rework of the Repair / Durability System
There are a couple issues / missing features with the current repair / durability system and it practically has no impact whatsoever on anything:

1) Repair prices are based on the item price, in case of bp / feathers those prices count as copper resulting in those items being incredibly cheap to repair
2) Increased condition loss for too high items is practically meaningless as decay is only a couple times faster than it is on 50
3) Decay on 50 is too slow in general
4) Accessories don't decay at all
5) Focus is not affected by item condition
6) Item bonuses, including +skill, don't care about the item condition

To rectify the more pressing issues these changes are most likely:
1) Repair price will only take the item level into account and nothing else, not even item type
2) Add accessory decay
3) Add a feather / bp / gold way to repair durability
4) Item condition while above 90% will have no negative effect whatsoever but starting at <90% the 10% malus takes effect and it will also affect focus. This is meant to not "require" you to repair over and over again to be at peak efficiency but at the same time make repairs actually required
5) Reduce / disable bonuses once a certain condition is reached to make repairing required

Buff Shearing
If it is implemented it would be the same type of shears for all 3 realms, most likely the fast cast time and 1500 range with no damage variant. Due to the prevalence of self buffing, timed self buffs from items would then also be sheareable. If shears are added, conc spells would become uninterruptible.


The RR5 ability, I could go either way, isn't really a game changer for me. It is a lot of fun to play without it, but wouldn't be the end of the world for me. The only thing it hurts now is new players because there are a lot of people who get insta RR5 ability because they played here first. But again that's not that big of a deal because none are really too OP.

The others in that category I wouldn't add.

The archery changes, I do not think there is a need, that's including the scout changes.

Repair items really does not have to change, but again not a game breaker if it is.

Buff Shearing I think is a good idea, it gives a good utility to the druid/shaman/cleric class, I used to love shearing people's buffs. However, I would increase the buff cast range to 1500 and increase the duration of potions to 20 minutes instead of 10, also, be able to use the buff potions in combat and do not put a cooldown (expect maybe a few seconds to mimic it being casted by another player) on it, that way you can rebuff yourself if solo with pots. Also, keep the rebuffing uninterruptible.

These are just my thoughts, none are really game breaking.
Sat 14 Sep 2019 3:49 PM by Shamissa
Bring over the magical arrows and end the carrying arrows for archery.
Implement realm buffs so people who forgot to buy pots , just buy the realm buffs at that time.
Bring over merchants every 4 months so folks can buy cool stuff.
Sat 14 Sep 2019 3:50 PM by ulf
VERY BAD IDEAS : Add RR5 abilities, buff sheraing, Add accessory decay
Sat 14 Sep 2019 3:52 PM by SalidorMacCulloch
Most of these changes will drastically change RvR.

Most RR5s give more CC usages.

NF is already set to for caster love. giving casters 39% PD and Melee losing crit chance would make it that much harder.

Adding more Bonuses to states. Would force 80% of the pop to rework there gear.


I would rather see things such as tower/keeps lving up getting larger over time. vs something that changes Game RvR.
Sat 14 Sep 2019 3:53 PM by Raunz
All you need to do is put toa stats in artifacts+masterlevels and CL10.

Aim for patch level 1.9x and game is perfect and very well balanced.

only few minor issues like minstrel pet being unkillable without focal myth and some other thing but game was very balanced at that patch level.

Best regards!
Raunz
Sat 14 Sep 2019 3:54 PM by Jeninii
I SAY NO to the changes.. This would be WAY to much in my opinion. I don't like the part about decreasing the WP or MOP that's what we rely on as tank or assassin class. I say NO RR5.. Just make some small changes first and go from there. This will make a lot of classes to OP I believe. We need to start first with maybe a speed pot, Add more time to the STAT combine force pots so they last longer. You could even add a merchant to buy the buffs with bounty points. I do agree with adding more time to the magic resists. The idea for decaying items is ok I guess just don't think its really important right now.
Sat 14 Sep 2019 3:55 PM by Raunz
Also 1.9x patch level would make so many setups possible, open up a whole new world of fun.
Sat 14 Sep 2019 3:57 PM by Sagz
Mordenaar wrote: ↑
Sat 14 Sep 2019 3:40 PM
rr5 would be nice.

Only other thing to add is a reduced realm switch timer.

I agree with the realm timer, I mean do not get rid of it, but really how much damage could there be if it was maybe 3 or 4 hours or even a 1 hour timer. There are plenty of people who have left and some people have switched realms permanently, and now you have friends in all 3 realms.

We are mostly all adults, and lets be honest switching one realm to another has no real advantage other than being spiteful or sending a /tell to yell at someone who killed you, is anyone really going to wait 1 hour to do this? Nothing worse than logging on and cant get a group to save your life because of peoples real life schedules or even worse you log on and there is no one to fight in the other realms, (hib doesn't usually have the problem as much). Personally, I would rather level a lowbie on another realm instead of sitting there partially AFK to see who shows up or for more ppl to log on the other realms.
Sat 14 Sep 2019 4:00 PM by LrdRahl
This change seems awful for Scouts, not only do we not have the same Bow/Range advantages that were intended for live, but Hunters were given a big advantage in the speed of pet.

So to take away the only useful ability (Volley) and only offer a 25% bump IF we spec higher in bow which means LESS melee, LESS stealth.

Thats not a fair tradeoff
Sat 14 Sep 2019 4:10 PM by Dirtyrandy
All guess are cool but I know for sure if buff shears go in affect you will lose half the pop might as well go play live most will just leave and find a different game but like some had said my one vote don’t mean shit so there going to do what they want there my two cent just know if implemented one mid guild will be gone and we’re out there every night for hours
Sat 14 Sep 2019 4:24 PM by Teehehe
I am not sure why you want to increase the TTK with the current conditions of the game play and achievable stats it seems fine. You will only be pushing the game more toward the zerg mentality but I guess that is what you are aiming for.

Not sure why we need RR5 abilities a lot of the RR5 abilities are really over the top while a lot of others are very lack luster. You would get into having to do a lot of customization and probably never find a true balance.

Increasing the con hp multiplier will then lead to having to increase damage multipliers because there is no good inbetween however I feel where we are now its a great spot. Same goes for increasing con and hp caps. Not sure why you even want to change the way certain realm abilities(PD/AoM/WP/MoP) are besides making zerg fights last longer but this will have a greater impact on other play styles. I know the game is not balanced around 8man, solo or small man but it also shouldn't be purely balanced around zerging. Our population is dwindling we don't need to make fights take longer than they already are. They honestly feel like they are in a good place at the moment. If anything you need to give more incentive to roaming in the frontier. Few examples would be add random mob that grants few feathers per kill around your new "Solo/Small man areas". Maybe even add the plants that could give feathers(could be ash/tears/feathers). Need to get more people roaming around dedicated areas but not turn it into a zerg fest.

Edit: just want to add i have visted the solo/small man areas a ton and they are completely abandoned whats the incentive for being there?

Not even sure why you think scouts need any new abilities especially something as crazy as you stated. I believe some of the changes to archery are needed but i think just changing the penetrating arrow to allow self BT pierce would be enough to make players spec higher archery.(% of full damage based on the level of penetrating arrow which is in return linked to your archery spec)

Adding accessory decay is a bad idea unless you allow repair of durability via feathers(repair durability stone or something so they could be traded) templates here are based purely on RoG's meaning once the durability of one of your ROGs are gone you will be completely retemplating, Players don't want to constantly have to re-template they enjoy the being able to jump back in and pvp and not having to constantly grind for new items.

Buff shearing if added should not be able shear potioned buffs AKA (the targets connection with the buff is to strong) or either the pvp combat timer should be removed from potions and possibly lower the reuse timer on them as well.
Sat 14 Sep 2019 4:27 PM by sabyrtuth
Please god no. Maybe the volley change.
Sat 14 Sep 2019 4:31 PM by Draginclaw
1) I would like to see RR% abilities added back in the game
2) Not a huge fan of this
3) Not a huge fan of this
4) How high can people get on resists then? Is there a hard cap?
5) I dislike this change. Stop nerfing RA's.

Archery changes:
I don't know enough about the classes to comment. My only complaint currently is the range that volley has when the archer is at a height (keep, tower).

Rework of the Repair / Durability System
I really don't want to deal with repairing/durability. Just seems unnecessary to play the game to me....just a currency sink. I'd rather spend currency on something else.....like a Remains Vendor.

Buff Shearing
As long as buffs have the same range.
Sat 14 Sep 2019 4:33 PM by chois
for scout these changements without a mos live version is useless, how do u want to land a shoot when u meet an other sneak, or once the stun is purged good luck to take range perma snare. it s not this changement who support me to put more points than the auto train in bow.
Sat 14 Sep 2019 4:33 PM by leb
I would like to take this opportunity to ask about 52 composite for bow . Many players say that 52 weapon composite is needed on phoenix server.
I would like have an answer about that from a dev, and not from A PLAYER

And for the changes , i'm totaly against. I just want to play, not to doing again temp for 6 chars

And please, can people stop asking about things that aren't propose in this topic, thanks.
Sat 14 Sep 2019 4:37 PM by knarfknarf
well it's been fun. looks like a bit of more people have been resubscribing to Live, which I don't play but seems like has a correlation to whats happening to Phoenix atm. Introducing major changes to help offset the population decline, isn't really a great idea. Was fun while it lasted, hope yall enjoy.
Sat 14 Sep 2019 4:45 PM by Forlornhope
All of these changes would essentially ruin the point of playing here, the only plus to your server would be it's free. Your population's been dwindling mostly because of the ridiculous changes you have already made, please don't shoot yourself in the foot again.
Sat 14 Sep 2019 4:48 PM by t4coops
last time you sent out stat nerfs (spec buff /use) half the game quit, we go and play and get rps to get better, then take a nerf and if I go get 5m rps ill do less dmg or w/e then I was alrdy doing before...ooooof zzzz doesn't sound fun / make me rush to get zerged down now ;\


please implement changes intelligently next time and don't ever implement a nerf.. just boost other things to balance it, its a mind trip that bums people out tough when you totally shit on their stats or w/e ect and make their char hella shittier then it was already, lot of other successful games have really stuck to that motto and done well, its ok to make mistakes, but not if you don't learn from them, hope the population don't take a nose dive again this time

ps nerfing dmg fat / making everyone tankier = when live got super lame
Sat 14 Sep 2019 4:59 PM by Strikejk
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sat 14 Sep 2019 2:34 PM
1) Add RR5 abilities
This would see the current (excepting necro) live rr5s, most of which are defensive in nature. It'll either be the intended rr5 ability per class or a choice from the RR5s of other classes of the same archetype (war, hero, arms being able to pick one of the 3 etc.)
Sounds like a good idea in general. RR5's added quite a bit to each class to succesfully do their intended role in a fight properly and without RR5's some classes lack this needed boost. It also helps to define classes further. Overall a good idea. However balancing needs to be taken a look at before implementation and this needs to be further thought out and detailed. Also what is the necromancer supposed to get?

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sat 14 Sep 2019 2:34 PM
2) Increase the con hp multiplier as champion levels did, something between cl 10 and 15 could work
I agree with the problem of caster spike damage (especially in bigger fights outside of 8v8's which melt players in split seconds). However simply adding HP opens a whole can of other problems which need to be taken a look at. Mainly all fixed damage abilities (example: leviathan) and ra's (example: twf) will lose their impact. The more HP people have the more those abilities will be ignored. Furthermore the importance of CC and especially stuns will be devalued, because people can just sit the stun out without the fear of dying. This devalue of CC also devalues the appropriate counters like purge or determination. Furthermore increasing the time to kill and thus the time to fight in general will increase the importance of higher powerpools, power regeneration and especially endurance regeneration. Classes that blow thru their endurance very quickly for spike damage (example: reaver) with realms that lack typical endurance 5 regeneration in their setup (example: albion) will be weakened due to their fighters running out of endurance in the extended fight times. In short this changes the whole dynamic of the game on many levels outside of simple caster vs melee. Resists and Absorb factors will become more important due to higher HP amounts. Classes based on lifeleech or selfheal will be strengthen (example: necromancer and bonedancer). And the effect on pet classes and pets in general have to be looked at (will their HP change too?) Like I said, a whole can of worms.

I'm not saying this is a bad change, but this needs to be looked at and properly discussed before implementation.

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sat 14 Sep 2019 2:34 PM
3) Add con and hp overcap + fill gems (ie +8 con cap and +8 con in one) that can be bought for feathers / bp and added to existing accessory items

Same as above

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sat 14 Sep 2019 2:34 PM
4) Increase PD and AoM to 39% at tier 9

I assume this will increase the % across all levels with the new cap being 39%.
I don't see why Physical Defense needs to be increased if the problem is caster spike damage and not melee spike damage. Especially when considering the Bonedancer who also has access to self heal and lifeleech, this will boost his strength even further against melees, which imo really isn't needed. BD's are already exceptionally powerful against melee classes. This change is not a good idea.
Avoidance of Magic is rather lack luster at the moment, also due to the fact that the sub-role of reducing CC times got removed. I look forward to seeing the effect of this RA increased. This will reduce the problem of caster spike damage and seems overall a good idea. Good change.

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sat 14 Sep 2019 2:34 PM
5) Decrease WP and MoP to 25% at tier 9 and maybe add +1% (or scaling and ending at ~15% at tier 9) per tier to the minimum crit damage %
This is a good way to decrease spike damage overall. People will probably put more points into linear increase of damage instead (example: MoM) so the average damage wouldn't suffer but the spikes would be reduced. This seems to be a good idea on first glance. Note: Don't forget other crit enhancing RA's for example: Dual threat


gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sat 14 Sep 2019 2:34 PM
Archery changes:
1) Given that current 52 comp bow spec represents 100%, add a custom multiplier that starts below 100% and scales up to ~115 or 125% based on base bow spec
I assume this means with 40+12 (composite 52) you do less damage than 50+2 (composite 52) due to higher base bow spec. Overall not a very good idea imo, mostly because this will increase volley and bow damage even further which is not needed. We already have plenty of people who go full bow spec to do as much damage as possible with volley to utterly crush everyone at a keep defense. Giving these people a damage increase is absolutely the wrong direction. Furthermore they will not care about the intended effect of this change of having more specialized builds and downsides attached to split builds. This is because inside a keep they are safe from everything and all they care about is raw pure damage. For example: If they could pick a trait to run around with 1hp only to boost their damage by 20% they would. Do not grant them more damage. Not a good idea.

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sat 14 Sep 2019 2:34 PM
2) Move volley to 45 or 50 archery, add 1 minute cooldown
Good idea. Volley is currently too strong, to easy to get and to easy to spam. This would at least reduce 2 of the problems a bit. However the level change won't really affect the people who only keep defense volley to begin with.

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sat 14 Sep 2019 2:34 PM
3) Penetrating arrow: allow self bt penetration with reduced damage

Seems fair.

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sat 14 Sep 2019 2:34 PM
Potentially a bad idea but potentially exactly what scouts would need:
Add some melee range ability to 50 bow spec with a 10min reuse that applies the static tempest effect on 1 target (3 sec stun + stun immunity reset), maybe restrict crit shot to never work against stunned targets to compensate.

Doesn't sound very strong. But I agree that melee scouts need a buff, they are the weakest of all 3 archer classes by a good portion.

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sat 14 Sep 2019 2:34 PM
Rework of the Repair / Durability System
There are a couple issues / missing features with the current repair / durability system and it practically has no impact whatsoever on anything:

1) Repair prices are based on the item price, in case of bp / feathers those prices count as copper resulting in those items being incredibly cheap to repair
2) Increased condition loss for too high items is practically meaningless as decay is only a couple times faster than it is on 50
3) Decay on 50 is too slow in general
4) Accessories don't decay at all
5) Focus is not affected by item condition
6) Item bonuses, including +skill, don't care about the item condition

To rectify the more pressing issues these changes are most likely:
1) Repair price will only take the item level into account and nothing else, not even item type
2) Add accessory decay
3) Add a feather / bp / gold way to repair durability
4) Item condition while above 90% will have no negative effect whatsoever but starting at <90% the 10% malus takes effect and it will also affect focus. This is meant to not "require" you to repair over and over again to be at peak efficiency but at the same time make repairs actually required
5) Reduce / disable bonuses once a certain condition is reached to make repairing required
Streamlining and unifying repair seems like a good idea. Not so sure about increasing the gold sink. Overall good changes

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sat 14 Sep 2019 2:34 PM
Buff Shearing
If it is implemented it would be the same type of shears for all 3 realms, most likely the fast cast time and 1500 range with no damage variant. Due to the prevalence of self buffing, timed self buffs from items would then also be sheareable. If shears are added, conc spells would become uninterruptible.
Hard no. The classes who usually have access to buff shearing have much more important thinks to do (heal, clean disease, poison, nearsight). I don't want to overload the classes with even more things to do. Furthermore this is a nightmare on the receiving end due to constant rebuffing and issues on pet classes and especially the necromancer. (Good luck finding out you lost a buff when you can only see 5 in your pet list) It's overall not needed the dynamic is fine as it is. Nice concept in theory but not in actual gameplay.
Sat 14 Sep 2019 5:07 PM by Niget
Upping HP would only make tanks worse imo.
Which would make caster groups even more powerful.

Lowering the resist debuffs from 50% to 35% would help balance the odds more.
The rr5 idea is great! Some of the defense ones might need to be toned down a little.
Sorc/Warrior rr5 comes to mind.

Archery changes seem good! Would make a sniper speced Archer actually useful! Only problem would be any form of cc shot. That is a bad plan.

Shears are a no go. Great in an 8v8 fight but it locks any non buffing class out of their buffs with no way to get them back. Making it even harder to small man or solo. Lose of buffs when you are out numbered is almost always a lose of rps. That would honestly be too much of a game changer for this server as a whole. The only things left would be 8mans and zergs...
Sat 14 Sep 2019 5:09 PM by Thorvi
Overcap items.....
Buffshears even on Timers/Potions......

RIP Classic. Back to Uthgard :-/
Sat 14 Sep 2019 5:09 PM by Choiece
I don't see the problem with adding charge atleast for zerkers. Zerker's need some help. They have very little help from there styles for stun. No slam like merc's or blademasters.

All of these changes is a big fat thumbs down from me. Why not look at maybe adding Darkness Rising or legendary weapons.
Sat 14 Sep 2019 5:12 PM by t4coops
remedy = devastates the ability to help yourself be better then your opponent

it kills the class, and its a 100% for sure hands down iwin button, you cannot beat someone with remedy if you don't have it up...1 button takes all the fun away, because you no longer even get to play / try, the fights already been decided before anyone even swings

do not
implement
remedy
for
the
servers
well
being
thanks
cheers !

the fun in daoc isn't getting kills, the fun in daoc is making your opponent know you are way better then them, you must embrace big skill cap possibilities, and let good play flourish
Sat 14 Sep 2019 5:12 PM by stormshadow
I never post on the forum but I have to post a reply to this.

These changes will kill the pop and kill the game.

What are you thinking?
Sat 14 Sep 2019 5:27 PM by metatron
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sat 14 Sep 2019 2:34 PM
None of these changes are scheduled for now but instead starting points to gather some feedback. The thread may or may not be split if feedback largely focuses on one aspect.

Changes that increase the TTK to very slightly push it away from the current caster only meta without touching resist debuffs or introducing charge that itself would require counter and then counter counter etc:

1) Add RR5 abilities
This would see the current (excepting necro) live rr5s, most of which are defensive in nature. It'll either be the intended rr5 ability per class or a choice from the RR5s of other classes of the same archetype (war, hero, arms being able to pick one of the 3 etc.) / This Could be interesting... In a bad way.

2) Increase the con hp multiplier as champion levels did, something between cl 10 and 15 could work / It is only a personal feeling, but I kinda like the current TTK, out of the debuff assist case. I do agree that debuff assist tend to be on the non-healable side (beside DI buffer), kind of burst, and I sort of feel like it's alright. In any case, I think that current HP levels are alright, and raising survivability too much would only shift the meta to disease heavy to counter the renewed efficiency of heals vs burst. That's just my opinion on the TTK as a whole, I may go into more details below.

3) Add con and hp overcap + fill gems (ie +8 con cap and +8 con in one) that can be bought for feathers / bp and added to existing accessory items
/ I am not sure this is a great idea on many front. First, while some people will be happy to have something new to spend their crazy fortune into, and remake all their characters templates, some others will clearly dislike this change for the same stated reasons. And i'm not sure a lot of people liked the decap from gear and their mandatory statuses from TOA. You are going to essentially add mandatory equipment with this.

4) Increase PD and AoM to 39% at tier 9 / I could live with this change if you do not increase the HP pool, would alleviate the debuff assist some, and PD is always a good pick against melee train, don't touch it if you change HP caps.

5) Decrease WP and MoP to 25% at tier 9 and maybe add +1% (or scaling and ending at ~15% at tier 9) per tier to the minimum crit damage % / No particular opinion, maybe only if you don't change HP pool caps and PD/AOM? Don't touch it if you touch anything else.

Archery changes:
1) Given that current 52 comp bow spec represents 100%, add a custom multiplier that starts below 100% and scales up to ~115 or 125% based on base bow spec / Hmm, if all archers benefit equally... why not... But have you looked at the numbers of Rangers and Hunters in RvR ?
2) Move volley to 45 or 50 archery, add 1 minute cooldown / Yes.
3) Penetrating arrow: allow self bt penetration with reduced damage / No particular opinion

Potentially a bad idea but potentially exactly what scouts would need:
Add some melee range ability to 50 bow spec with a 10min reuse that applies the static tempest effect on 1 target (3 sec stun + stun immunity reset), maybe restrict crit shot to never work against stunned targets to compensate. / Just give em blue or yellow ranger speed at 50 or 45bow and you'll make everyone happy, IMO.

Rework of the Repair / Durability System
There are a couple issues / missing features with the current repair / durability system and it practically has no impact whatsoever on anything:

1) Repair prices are based on the item price, in case of bp / feathers those prices count as copper resulting in those items being incredibly cheap to repair
2) Increased condition loss for too high items is practically meaningless as decay is only a couple times faster than it is on 50
3) Decay on 50 is too slow in general
4) Accessories don't decay at all
5) Focus is not affected by item condition
6) Item bonuses, including +skill, don't care about the item condition

To rectify the more pressing issues these changes are most likely:
1) Repair price will only take the item level into account and nothing else, not even item type
2) Add accessory decay / nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooes :'(
3) Add a feather / bp / gold way to repair durability
4) Item condition while above 90% will have no negative effect whatsoever but starting at <90% the 10% malus takes effect and it will also affect focus. This is meant to not "require" you to repair over and over again to be at peak efficiency but at the same time make repairs actually required
5) Reduce / disable bonuses once a certain condition is reached to make repairing required

/ get rid of decay, please :'(

Buff Shearing
If it is implemented it would be the same type of shears for all 3 realms, most likely the fast cast time and 1500 range with no damage variant. Due to the prevalence of self buffing, timed self buffs from items would then also be sheareable. If shears are added, conc spells would become uninterruptible. / Hmmm yummy, but not sure about uninterruptible conc spells.
Sat 14 Sep 2019 5:29 PM by Warlay
good that im gone since march happy ripping
Sat 14 Sep 2019 5:36 PM by Lileo
Wow, how did you devs get so far from the initial vision.

Rip Pheonix
Sat 14 Sep 2019 5:37 PM by t4coops
I don't think much people is really that broke they cant afford 15$ a month for live ?

we play here because we don't like live, please stop making it more like live every patch, or our population will get more like live every patch...
Sat 14 Sep 2019 5:51 PM by Keelia
You guys created the caster meta by catering to the trash zergs. How bout you make more incentives to 8 man instead of pveing keeps for RPs. Add a multiplier for kills to influence RP bonuses. That way people who are actually killing people get rewarded for it and those just taking keeps get basic RPs
Sat 14 Sep 2019 6:06 PM by Razur Ur
Only what we need is rr5 and CL´s for more utility by Off Tanks
Sat 14 Sep 2019 6:31 PM by Snyckerz
So when are you rolling out TOA? May as well since you obviously want this to evolve to a free live version.

I was really bummed when NF rolled out here because I came here to play a more classic version of the game. If I wanted all these additions I would just resub to live. Please keep this game more geared to those of us who came here for the old DAOC.
Sat 14 Sep 2019 6:34 PM by Glemoir
Hi ,

This is a very bad idea .

The game is perfect now.
Sat 14 Sep 2019 6:40 PM by Quick
What’s next? artifacts? ML’s? Just stop.

Was their rr5 abilities in OF? Stop changing the game for a handful of people. Leave it alone ffs
Sat 14 Sep 2019 6:50 PM by Roto23
Bug shears will split the pop. Well go from 800 to 400 players
Sat 14 Sep 2019 6:51 PM by Keilli
Like many others, I came here for a classic version of the game and that is what I enjoyed. If you roll out these changes, I am just going to stop logging into the game. Like others have said, if I wanted this crap, I would have re-subbed live.

The action has been garbage lately anyway, and adding these changes is like asking me to use old heroin needles. No thanks, I care way too much to let this happen.
Sat 14 Sep 2019 7:02 PM by Keelia
Your population took a huge hit with the release of WoW classic. You need to let things balance out before you start some broadsword changes. If anything add some QoL things. Timers on the move, buffing macros, add a straight up PvP zone like stygia or volcanus. That way with the low pop all 8 mans can just fight and roam those areas and the baddies can stick to their PvE for RPs, oh yea you should make it so the zergers get less RPs for The mid Zerg is out of control right now and needs to be addressed. Currently for NA prime time mid has been basically a higher pop than the other 2 realms combined. The basic RP bonus isn’t enough there needs to be more incentive to play the lower population realms.

As for love for tanks not seeing how this is even on the table. I mean they all get det 9 and stoicism, as it is right now they are essentially CC immune. Issue is people aren’t playing melee groups right. The guilds who used to run melee groups did just fine against all other group composites, whether it hybrid or full caster. People need to just play better; don’t mold the game around the bad players to help them out.

As for caster group meta, like I said before YOU created this meta. By catering to the Zerg and making it worthwhile to Zerg the 8 mans had to adapt to stand any chance against the odds. Fact is melee groups don’t fight zergs, at least not nearly as well as a caster extend group. If anything you need to boost caster groups, especially if you are going to let zerging continue the way it is. As it is right now you are going to loose the entire 8 man population.

There needs to be more of an incentive for 8 mans/small mans and there needs to be less of a draw to zerging. Right now you can afk keep farm and basically earn 10-15k per hour. Take away the keep bonus multiplier and lower the amount of RPs you get for taking a keep, make it static, 300 for a tower and 500 for a keep, regardless of how long or how many were killed in the process. Took you 2 hours and you killed 100 defenders? Cool here’s 500rps; took you 10 mins cause it was empty with no defenders? Cool here’s 500 RPs. Leave the bonus pool for the defenders, leaving an incentive to defend and stand against the keep taking baddies.
Sat 14 Sep 2019 7:06 PM by Skandalus
The whole point of Phoenix was a classic DAOC experience removed from all the get out of jail free cards that less skilled players crutched on., which included TOA and RR5 abilities. This server is continuing to lose its identity as anything special. We are now in NF and talking about adding more content closer to live. You drew in a crowd with the promise of a classic experience and that promise is now being broken by even mentioning these changes. Just leave the game be or you will see a huge decline in server population.
Sat 14 Sep 2019 7:11 PM by beatrix
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sat 14 Sep 2019 2:34 PM
None of these changes are scheduled for now but instead starting points to gather some feedback. The thread may or may not be split if feedback largely focuses on one aspect.

Changes that increase the TTK to very slightly push it away from the current caster only meta without touching resist debuffs or introducing charge that itself would require counter and then counter counter etc:

1) Add RR5 abilities
This would see the current (excepting necro) live rr5s, most of which are defensive in nature. It'll either be the intended rr5 ability per class or a choice from the RR5s of other classes of the same archetype (war, hero, arms being able to pick one of the 3 etc.)
2) Increase the con hp multiplier as champion levels did, something between cl 10 and 15 could work
3) Add con and hp overcap + fill gems (ie +8 con cap and +8 con in one) that can be bought for feathers / bp and added to existing accessory items
4) Increase PD and AoM to 39% at tier 9
5) Decrease WP and MoP to 25% at tier 9 and maybe add +1% (or scaling and ending at ~15% at tier 9) per tier to the minimum crit damage %

Archery changes:
1) Given that current 52 comp bow spec represents 100%, add a custom multiplier that starts below 100% and scales up to ~115 or 125% based on base bow spec
2) Move volley to 45 or 50 archery, add 1 minute cooldown
3) Penetrating arrow: allow self bt penetration with reduced damage

Potentially a bad idea but potentially exactly what scouts would need:
Add some melee range ability to 50 bow spec with a 10min reuse that applies the static tempest effect on 1 target (3 sec stun + stun immunity reset), maybe restrict crit shot to never work against stunned targets to compensate.

Rework of the Repair / Durability System
There are a couple issues / missing features with the current repair / durability system and it practically has no impact whatsoever on anything:

1) Repair prices are based on the item price, in case of bp / feathers those prices count as copper resulting in those items being incredibly cheap to repair
2) Increased condition loss for too high items is practically meaningless as decay is only a couple times faster than it is on 50
3) Decay on 50 is too slow in general
4) Accessories don't decay at all
5) Focus is not affected by item condition
6) Item bonuses, including +skill, don't care about the item condition

To rectify the more pressing issues these changes are most likely:
1) Repair price will only take the item level into account and nothing else, not even item type
2) Add accessory decay
3) Add a feather / bp / gold way to repair durability
4) Item condition while above 90% will have no negative effect whatsoever but starting at <90% the 10% malus takes effect and it will also affect focus. This is meant to not "require" you to repair over and over again to be at peak efficiency but at the same time make repairs actually required
5) Reduce / disable bonuses once a certain condition is reached to make repairing required

Buff Shearing
If it is implemented it would be the same type of shears for all 3 realms, most likely the fast cast time and 1500 range with no damage variant. Due to the prevalence of self buffing, timed self buffs from items would then also be sheareable. If shears are added, conc spells would become uninterruptible.


Please...I repeat PLEASE do NOT add rr5 abilities and buff shearing! People came to Phoenix for classic, not for "live" -_- I get it that some things added already are live like but the more the server becomes live like the more people are just going to leave. Why is things like this being addressed but not RvR? People are leaving the server because the RvR sucks now with new frontiers...

PS - Reduce the realm switch timer already jeez! Why are we still on a 12 hour timer when phoenix population is so low now?! Yall can address things that will dramatically change the server but wont address the biggest issues on the server which is the realm switch timer and RvR...
Sat 14 Sep 2019 7:12 PM by shintacki
All of these changes sound bad except maybe the rr5 abilities. I don't even remember what most classes rr5s are so it's tough for me to be too against that. The rest is not good. Why the hell would you even want to add item decay into the game at this point? What purpose would that serve besides being mildly annoying to the playerbase?

While you're at it also do not add the destructible walls and towers either. I know that was mentioned somewhere else as being on the radar for something to change. But don't.

And don't do any of this.
Sat 14 Sep 2019 7:14 PM by knarfknarf
I feel like now is the time more than ever, to lower the realm timer from 12h... Make more people want to play, not make them leave cause of silly ass updates...
Sat 14 Sep 2019 7:15 PM by t4coops
need to change things in the game that are lame that people don't like

like bd's not even trying to play just running spaming insta lt every 4 sec from 1500 range
chanter/caby pets instantly casting on u with super dex the second u enter 1500 range and locking you down tuff
minst being able ot just decc themsfls and pet always
pets going thro walls
necros beign ridiculous
ect

and you need to add stuff to do, not change how we do the exact same thing, gets boring just going task zone all the time ect, need to add mobs like doppelgeangers on live to the island, and to mazes, with good rewards so people are out and about creating action and different places to play / things to do

much better things to do and create to make the game better then drastic class / ra changes that leaves most everyone feeling like well crap my char just got way crappier, awesome I cant wait to go play now ;\

plus your literaly adding what everyone hates about live, it is very very strange, I don't understand

sad and worried I am ;\
Sat 14 Sep 2019 7:27 PM by beatrix
knarfknarf wrote: ↑
Sat 14 Sep 2019 7:14 PM
I feel like now is the time more than ever, to lower the realm timer from 12h... Make more people want to play, not make them leave cause of silly ass updates...

This would be one of the best changes Phoenix ever did...
Sat 14 Sep 2019 7:35 PM by t4coops
wtb some 1v1 / 2v2 / 2v4 / 8v8 tournaments or something to get people excited / online preparing / practing ect (which u can like knock out In an afternoon 1 day out of the month)

stuff like that would keep people having fun and playing more then stuff like class changes or w/e, specialy when your totally altering stuff that we are all used to / like / don't ever complain about... ? lol
Sat 14 Sep 2019 7:47 PM by Kurbsen
rr5 and buff shears i like..but the real thing that should be talked about here is the realm switch timer. there is no reason why it should be 12 hours still.. NA time is suffering hardcore.
Sat 14 Sep 2019 7:55 PM by Onnit
Please reduce realm timer
Sat 14 Sep 2019 8:04 PM by Cadebrennus
Seriously dude, stop dicking around with the code. Leave shit alone.
Sat 14 Sep 2019 8:09 PM by carlwinslow
100% agree realm timer reduction should be top priority before any of this other stuff. The population has taken such a hit that this change will help bring back people. Imo unban people who circumvented the realm swap timer as well after reducing timer. People just wanna have fun and play characters in different realms as many people have some in each realm at this point. We should be able to have fun with our characters in different realms within a reasonable swap time, 12 hours is brutal. 4 hours seems much more appropriate with the population now.

Aside from that rr5 abilities sound kind of neat but should probably be on a longer timer than the current ra actives, volley nerf sounds good too, I just wish the zerg rangers hadn't been boosted by the last couple months by abusing volley, the nerf woulda been nice with the switch to NF but now is better than never at least for a nerf to it.
Sat 14 Sep 2019 8:18 PM by Hector
Reduce the realm switch timer.

If you add buff shears I’m quitting.

This was supposed to be daoc Classic. Wtf is happening ?? The game is NF with people running around in clown outfits reskinned.. sad
Sat 14 Sep 2019 8:22 PM by ulf
the timer realm is out topic

on live they have no timer, it is the worst idea, lots of *** switch realm to SPY .
Sat 14 Sep 2019 8:23 PM by Erardoc
Kurbsen wrote: ↑
Sat 14 Sep 2019 7:47 PM
rr5 and buff shears i like..but the real thing that should be talked about here is the realm switch timer. there is no reason why it should be 12 hours still.. NA time is suffering hardcore.
Real question, Why would reducing the realm switch timer help with population? wouldn't it be the same people just in different realms? I agree it doesn't need to be 12 hours more like 3 or 4 hours.
Sat 14 Sep 2019 8:31 PM by Kurbsen
Erardoc wrote: ↑
Sat 14 Sep 2019 8:23 PM
Kurbsen wrote: ↑
Sat 14 Sep 2019 7:47 PM
rr5 and buff shears i like..but the real thing that should be talked about here is the realm switch timer. there is no reason why it should be 12 hours still.. NA time is suffering hardcore.
Real question, Why would reducing the realm switch timer help with population? wouldn't it be the same people just in different realms? I agree it doesn't need to be 12 hours more like 3 or 4 hours.

i never said itll help with population. itll help with gameplay experience tho. for example, NA time has 120 mids 45 albs 45 hibs.. if i logged mid earlier that day for some reason now im stuck to a zerg of mids and no enemies. let people switch to make the battlefield more fun.
Sat 14 Sep 2019 8:32 PM by Isavyr
The shears/RR5 is a huge increase in abilities/complexity. I don't think DAOC needs this, and this wasn't what classic is about. I think too many modern games confuse complexity with fun. In my opinion, classic is based around simplicity, to which groups build upon and create complicated behavior. If anything, too many abilities already in the game could use refinement--we don't need more abilities.

While some RR5 abilities would fit very well with the game, many do not. For example, a character suddenly gets a burst of speed, nullifying their poor position. Or, they use a shield that mitigations 75% of physical damage to recover for their poor position. How are these desirable? They are handicaps.

I haven't played with buff shears enough, but the shear amount of buttons to accomplish a rather simple task always seemed stupid, and furthermore seems redundant over caster debuffs. This system would need a lot of work, but seeing as NF was instituted with few changes to make it better than its base form, I have no hope, so I'm strongly against it as it's presented.

The entire thread is disappointing to see this because it shows the Phoenix team isn't able to identify the priority problems in RvR experience and address them, though the silver lining is that where we are now is still much much better than where classic ever was.
Sat 14 Sep 2019 8:49 PM by Sagz
ulf wrote: ↑
Sat 14 Sep 2019 8:22 PM
the timer realm is out topic

on live they have no timer, it is the worst idea, lots of *** switch realm to SPY .

Really??!?! do you really think people switch to Spy? why? the relic/zerg/keep capture is really not that important. Pe6ople spied on Live cause they would dual log each realm, you only have 1 account here so that's not a thing. And in reality no one wants to "get rid of" the timer, but if you made it say 1 hour or so, you cant really spy for one, and you can keep up with friends and play to have fun, which is what this game is made for, not really realm pride. If realm pride was a thing the game would be set up to pick one 1 realm per account and since you can only have 1 account you would have to delete everyone to switch.

Like for instance now, if you do not have friends that are playing at this time, you would have to wait to find out what realm/characters they are playing thus not being able to play all day. Some people have fun leveling playing low end characters for variety.

Again no one is saying get rid of it, but it does not need to be 12 hours, you could get away with 1, at worse 2 or 3 hours.

Also, to the buff shear people, I am pretty sure you could buff shear on classic, i remember buff shearing people all the time, and I quit when TOA came out and came back for classic, then played a little TOA till I finally quit.
Sat 14 Sep 2019 8:50 PM by Nehmain
What do I think of these changes? It's unprintable. To be polite, I'll say a hard, very hard no. I don;t know who or what is your process to even come up with this, but I would examine the why. This is supposed to be a classic based shard. I can see NF because of the legal issues ontop of the space involved. Fine. But when we came to play in beta and the shard it was not to play Live-lite. Have you considered working on the issues that need to be fixed as opposed to poorly thought out nincompoopery?

There will be no threats of huffy leaving from me, I'll just stop playing and hold you (the group) to the same utter contempt I hold live to.
Sat 14 Sep 2019 8:58 PM by Sagz
Strikejk wrote: ↑
Sat 14 Sep 2019 4:59 PM
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sat 14 Sep 2019 2:34 PM
Buff Shearing
If it is implemented it would be the same type of shears for all 3 realms, most likely the fast cast time and 1500 range with no damage variant. Due to the prevalence of self buffing, timed self buffs from items would then also be sheareable. If shears are added, conc spells would become uninterruptible.
Hard no. The classes who usually have access to buff shearing have much more important thinks to do (heal, clean disease, poison, nearsight). I don't want to overload the classes with even more things to do. Furthermore this is a nightmare on the receiving end due to constant rebuffing and issues on pet classes and especially the necromancer. (Good luck finding out you lost a buff when you can only see 5 in your pet list) It's overall not needed the dynamic is fine as it is. Nice concept in theory but not in actual gameplay.

You must play with some bad players, it does not take that much effort to throw a shear in, and if I remember right, you could shear on the classic servers.
Sat 14 Sep 2019 9:12 PM by Synda
I do not like any of these changes at all, i do not want to have to retemp all my toons. I think things are fine the way they are.
Sat 14 Sep 2019 9:13 PM by Bema
You told us this was gonna be classic with QoL changes. You are taking this WAY to far from what you said this was gonna be. I do NOT want to take the time to farm more feathers/retemp toons and waste time outside of RvR doing meaningless stuff. Leave the server alone and lets play.
Sat 14 Sep 2019 9:25 PM by wnxdemon
the game is fine the way it is plz stop running players off
Sat 14 Sep 2019 9:29 PM by iamsaitam
Since the overall tone in here is regarding the population of the server, I'd suggest the following:

* Decrease the aimed 48h played to lvl up a toon to 50 to 24h or even 12h - The point of PvE should be to learn how to play your toon, that happens by facing different mobs/scenarios, but the grind is just mind numbing for people that have to solo
* Add small group encounters/instances to farm feathers - From what I've seen we need to get the rid of the notion of having a "farm" character.
* Realm timer between 2h - 4h during weekdays and 6h during weekends

These would help with the health of the server. The current version doesn't have casual/individual players in mind. The time to RvR should be the focus of the next iterations, because it's something that could have a positive impact on the health of the server. Changing some of the kind of mechanisms proposed in this topic have a higher chance of upsetting rather than helping.
Sat 14 Sep 2019 9:35 PM by Vlas
leave volley alone
most of these change defeat why many wanted to play this server CLASSIC
server is slowly dying and u want to kick it further
I have an idea fix all of the damn problems on your current list 3000 + last i looked
where is our damn reward for last event
STOP guys just STOP were dying
looks like not many want your proposed changes so kill the idea now and fast people already leaving for WOW
I really cant believe you all come up with such a outlandish ideas
you make events and you don't even know the rewards
Sat 14 Sep 2019 9:45 PM by hawsey813311
are they buffing archery dmg for all classes or just scouts??? either way its a shit idea. archers are already the lamest shit in this game.
Sat 14 Sep 2019 10:03 PM by Pigleto
Maybe there should be a realm switch token. Buy a token for 1p and /use it and log out and switch to another realm. I don't think people who spy are going to waste money doing this often and if 8 man people want to switch other realms that's fine too but at least it would get some of the money out of the economy and make people think about realm switching. Keep the timers how they are but if people want they have to pay to change realms. Simple
Sat 14 Sep 2019 10:57 PM by Taniquetil
Making changes to move too much closer to live. Not what the server was about imo.

Maaaaaybe reduce the caster by adjusting wp/mop but the rest are OTT, and like you said without COUNTERS to COUNTERS youre making it a lot more work for yourselves.
Sat 14 Sep 2019 11:09 PM by easytoremember
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sat 14 Sep 2019 2:34 PM
Changes that increase the TTK to very slightly push it away from the current caster only meta without touching resist debuffs

1) Add RR5 abilities
This would see the current (excepting necro) live rr5s, most of which are defensive in nature. It'll either be the intended rr5 ability per class or a choice from the RR5s of other classes of the same archetype (war, hero, arms being able to pick one of the 3 etc.)
2) Increase the con hp multiplier as champion levels did, something between cl 10 and 15 could work
3) Add con and hp overcap + fill gems (ie +8 con cap and +8 con in one) that can be bought for feathers / bp and added to existing accessory items
4) Increase PD and AoM to 39% at tier 9
5) Decrease WP and MoP to 25% at tier 9 and maybe add +1% (or scaling and ending at ~15% at tier 9) per tier to the minimum crit damage %

While living a little longer definitely helps tanks it
ironically drives casters towards debuff trains or empty power (moreso than now)

AoM/PD require RA investment where Det/Purge are already being thrown around as mandatory
Neutral to crit change

More CON cap means buying those gems or retemplating.
CON multiplier maybe; if your target is making tanks live longer without changing the game around then scaling CON by class is easy and doesn't impact where people are throwing their points in order to get the benefit
The extra bulk remains a headache for non-train nukers

RR5 depends what Lives' current RAs are. I like Chain Lightning and Wall of Flame and w/e the enchanter pet pbaoe was called, but also remember Valewalker's being garbage... BD/Animist as well, it wasn't fooling anybody. And it also depends on what option(s) the class's with trash/invalid RA's will get instead, and whether it will be mirrored across realms. If similar classes of opposing realms get the same ability I'm against RR5's


Teehehe wrote: ↑
Sat 14 Sep 2019 4:24 PM
Buff shearing if added should not be able shear potioned buffs AKA (the targets connection with the buff is to strong) or either the pvp combat timer should be removed from potions and possibly lower the reuse timer on them as well.
What's the point of shearing someone's buffs if you can't remove them or they're instantly reapplied (actual healer/support reapplying it with cast is fine)? Should be the opposite of your suggestion if buff shears get put in- no pot buffs in combat
Now if you want to use an item charge, by all means~ repurposes charge buffs, if a given buff is precious to you


LrdRahl wrote: ↑
Sat 14 Sep 2019 4:00 PM
This change seems awful for Scouts, not only do we not have the same Bow/Range advantages that were intended for live, but Hunters were given a big advantage in the speed of pet.

So to take away the only useful ability (Volley)
Volley is shared between all 3 archers, if you're complaining between scout and its counterparts you want scout exclusive change, not the thing impacting all 3

The more you cling to volley the less you're going to end up with
Sat 14 Sep 2019 11:10 PM by Freedomcall
mmmm actually, it's a bit frustrating to read this post.
I think things are going too far from initial vision of the server.
Sat 14 Sep 2019 11:13 PM by Symond
If you want to lower caster damage to prevent caster meta. Just do exactly that, lower caster damage. Don’t do a whole bunch of custom stuff that will have unforceeb effects.
Sat 14 Sep 2019 11:19 PM by Armmondo
Here are my worthless criticisms and suggestions.

Please do not add any of the RR5 abilities or make changes to defensive and offensive RAs based on RR. Instead, offer the ability to use mounts. Use bounty points and/or feathers as incentives to to purchase different mounts, while requiring higher realm ranks to be able to use the most bad ass mounts, ie: RR10 to use dragon mount.

I agree with the Volley timer, but not necessarily the skill change.

I don't think repairs are an issue atm.

I do not want to see buff shears unless BMs, Mercs, and Zerkers get charge. Casters groups will more easily be able to interrupt shears, otherwise. Moving us even further away from bringing life to tank groups in Alb and Hib. To counter charge you could give one class in each realm speedwarp at level 50 in one of their baselines... Wizard, Eldritch and Runemaster maybe?

Even though not listed by you Uthred it has been mentioned quiet a bit by players, but a reduction in switch timer would be nice. 4,6, or even 8 hours would be a nice QoL change for many. There are many weekends where I have waited and waited to be able to play hibbies or albies and I lost interest and just did something else instead of playing at all.
Sat 14 Sep 2019 11:20 PM by florin
I think these changes are as welcomed as the buff adjustments. Please give us option a,b,c and disregard the feedback and implement option z.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, well you can’t fool me again.
Sun 15 Sep 2019 12:05 AM by Hector
After reading these proposed changes, today was the first time in 2 years I actually went to the uthgard website to see if they wiped and restarted yet. You guys are literally making me miss classic.
Sun 15 Sep 2019 12:16 AM by MagicaeFungos
If these changes take place it will make the population drop even more. Phoenix gone wild like live last blow edition.

What happened to the classic experience?

People came to this server to have that experience and as close to it as possible.

Really sad to see this server going the total opposite direction from its main goal..
Sun 15 Sep 2019 12:21 AM by subject
The Pareto principle, learn it, know it, live it.

Bow spec should properly scale to 50.

Scrap the other ideas. You're reaching too far with them.

IF YOU MUST, Prevent resist debuff spells from lowering resists below a certain value (e.g: 0 to 10%). I'd start with 0% and increase by 5% until you reach the desired affect.

e.g:

Light tanks - reduced to no less than 0% resists

Heavy tanks - reduced to no less than 10% resists, or 5% + racials
Sun 15 Sep 2019 12:24 AM by unuzin
no stat cap plz nonononono
Sun 15 Sep 2019 1:01 AM by Sleipnir
If Buff Shears go in, I and some others I know are done. We wanted to play here because it was a Classic-based server but it's getting more and more Live-like all the time, and that's not what we're here for. I hope you guys can slow down all the changes, it's really starting to turn a lot of players off when one can't rely on things to be consistent from one week or month to the next.
Sun 15 Sep 2019 1:41 AM by gotwqqd
Fine with creating a reason to spec 50 in Bow...this is needed. Don’t cave to the volley whining(I don’t play an archer here) it’s fine.
Scouts need a slight melee damage upgrade and obtain longest(non shared) bow range.

Please no additional +con/hits waste of time and unneeded. Especially if you increase con/hit point relationship. Though not needed.

Shears ugh. Bad idea. Ability bloat. But if you feel compelled to add, make it where it’s more of like a temporary erase of the buffs. Where it can be rewritten.
This way pot users aren’t using new pots to get back one stat buff. Instead they simply wait 30 seconds or so for its return.

RR5 not needed, there is plenty of variety and choice as is.
Sun 15 Sep 2019 1:46 AM by Norad
I think many people are passing over the main reason WHY these changes are happening and are just happy/unhappy with changes. This is the reason why

Changes that increase the TTK to very slightly push it away from the current caster only meta without touching resist debuffs or introducing charge that itself would require counter and then counter counter etc:

I have said this would be true since beta and only got shit from the rest of the community and being called out on bias, I still believe this quite is true but the way the changes are going I feel is the opposite direction and will only make caster groups stronger. Maybe do some test server testing of the changes beforehand? I hope other people can agree with the statement above and brainstorm better ideas then the OP on how to make tankers+hybrids able to compete more with caster groups on an average player level. Maybe one way is to listen to the only guild/people who ran a successful tank group on the server? So trust me when I say adding rr5 will mainly help out caster groups.
Sun 15 Sep 2019 1:50 AM by gotwqqd
Maybe a path to a quicker RR5 would help.
Sun 15 Sep 2019 2:02 AM by insanesanity
Volley change is fine and buffing the scout some is fine, but the rest..... hell to the no.
Sun 15 Sep 2019 2:50 AM by Strays
I took an extended break due to loose-handed yolo changes (TWF change, Theurgist/necro DS nerfs, continued favoritism shown to melee play style, continued isolation/attacks of caster based play styles)


Almost every single proposed change here is against the spirit of the server, the desires of the player base, and logical thought.

Particularly that horrible bit about accessory decay. Telling harder to temp classes that require good util/high feather cost items, and/or MP crafted equipment that they will have to -- before they know it -- COMPLETELY re-template their entire character (because breaking a SINGLE ROG equals breaking your entire template) seems like the most baseless undesired and unwanted change of any video game in 2019 as a whole.

I'm not sure what train of thought lead to that, or who's idea it was.. but I cannot adequately express how bad I think that particular change is.
Sun 15 Sep 2019 3:11 AM by Mavella
I'll definitely be quitting if remedy is added. Another layer of iwin in sin fights is not necessary when you already need purge and double heal with a preloaded ablative to stand a chance in most encounters with equal rank/skill opponents.

No thank you.
Sun 15 Sep 2019 3:19 AM by Prometheus
1) Add RR5 Abilities
I'm in favor of this, especially if you could pick the RR5 ability.
2) Increase con hp multiplier
Not a huge fan of this idea seems like it would just make killing people take longer.
3) Add con/hp overcap items with fillers
Same answer as above, it will just make it take that much longer to kill someone.
4) Increase PD and AoM to 39% at tier 9
I know it sounds hypocritical but I do believe casters could use this boost since they tend to die so quickly.
5) Decrease WP and Mop to 25% at tier 9
I'm against this change, way too drastic and would devalue these realm abilities considerably.
-
1) Damage boost to bow spec
I don't play an archer but giving damage a boost to people who spec into it seems reasonable.
2) Move volley to 45 or 50 archery with a 1-minute cooldown
I think with the change above that would be a really good option.
3) Penetrating arrow - allow to overcome self bt with reduced damage
Seems reasonable, just by the name it sounds like it should be doing this anyway.
-
1) Repair prices
I have no issue with this since money is pretty easy to get.
2) Increase condition loss of too high of items
This sounds like a bad change especially with low levels using high-level items.
3) Decay on 50 too slow
I'm against this change, I don't think anyone wants their items to degrade faster.
4) Accessories don't decay
Against this change, I personally like not having to worry about my jewelry decaying.
5) Focus not affected by item condition
Seems like an unnecessary change that just hinders low levels who might be using a high-level staff.
6) Item bonuses don't care about condition
Against this change, though my gear is never at 70% condition.
-
1) Repair price
I'm not against this change, as I said before, money is easy to obtain.
2) Add accessory decay
As stated above, against this change.
3) Add a way to repair durability
Wouldn't mind this change, at least this would allow you to continue using your items indefinitely.
4) Item condition below 90% give penalties
Not a fan of this change, I don't think anyone is.
5) Reduce/Disable bonuses if a certain condition is reached
Not in favor of this change, but again my gear never has gotten that low on condition.
-
Buff Shearing
I think that would make things interesting, though could render someone buffless until the end of combat unless you use single buff potions.
Sun 15 Sep 2019 3:40 AM by Pigleto
You could do something with adding mythirians to people's templates. Include mythirian drops on all raids. TG, Dragon, SH, Legion. You could make mythirians with 200 hp, 10% AoM, or 10% PD. Now I don't know about the vaules or the balance but I know it would be less time consuming to the player than having to rebuild a template form scratch. Whats best about this is that if you find that you need to tweak or maybe eliminate this concept you can turn the mythirians off or tweak their values. Just leave the RAs alone for the AoM and PD and dabble with the mythirian slot. Test it out. tweak the values up or down or scrap it. It would be better than messing up people's templates. Or maybe you could make a 10% melee or 10% magic charge on items as well
Sun 15 Sep 2019 6:33 AM by majky666
If you do this changes, i leave, bb classic.
Sun 15 Sep 2019 7:01 AM by trawetsnivek
If the objective is to kill the server, by all means, implement these changes wholesale.

Just a few comments to the proposed changes:

Bow damage does not need to be increased. I'm getting hit for 600+ (crit shot) by bow specced archers and 300 standard shot.. not sure why anyone feels that their damage is underwhelming (those numbers reflect damage against a chain user with nearly 700AF). Rangers are one of the most played toons. We don't need to see even more of them.

PD and AOM should not be increased. AOM 9 provides an additional 400 hit points to a 2000 hit point character. Obviously the more hit points you have the more it scales up. This assumes of course damage taken is strictly magic and your not debuffed. Increasing PD would boost caster groups even more and if your trying to tackle the alb/hib caster group meta then this doesn't help at all. If you want to increase these two RA's make it cost significantly more realm points.

Also, increasing TTK would ruin the solo game. Fights are long enough, by stretching them even longer it would mean more adds. So no to more hit points. Also, it would force everyone to retemplate.

As for rr5's I don't really care. So long as they are somewhat balanced. You will never achieve perfect balance with this game aside from making every class identical but that would be boring as hell.

I don't play a scout but do acknowledge they are gimp. They should not be given ST, however, (no toon should have access to a potential 18-second stun) or make it such that ST is a separate stun unto itself (so that it doesn't reset the slam timer). I almost exclusively play alb (98% of the time) so I'm not saying this from a biased perspective. What scouts need is a boost to melee. I would consider getting rid of the DW and 2H defense reduction bonuses. If a scout could actually reach the 60% block rate with their 20% evade vs assassins they could be viable. They could hypothetically reach 68% defense (with cap blocking and assuming their evade rate is 20%). Alternatively, maybe boost them to evade 5. The issue isn't their bow damage but rather their deplorable melee capability.
Sun 15 Sep 2019 7:20 AM by Ceseuron
1. RR5 Abilities: No idea what this is as I haven't played live in forever and never got a character on any realm to RR5.
2. This might be interesting as it would be nice to actually stand a modicum of chance against Hib "stun-nuke-nuke" train.
3. You guys aren't going to win any favors or incentivize people to stay on Phoenix if you start mucking around with things that affect templates, especially more costly templates.
4. It would be nice to not have such papery casters, but this will probably make the suppression spec BD a nigh unstoppable force.
5. Indifferent on this.

Archery Changes:
1. Bow spec damage should reflect the specialization path people have taken with it. I'd love to see this on my hunter, as current hunter specs have little justification for going over 35 bow. If I spec 45-50 bow, I'd like there to be some reward to it.
2. Dear god, YES! Implement this tomorrow! At least 45 archery (preferably 50) with a 1 minute cooldown is better than the current Volley, which is INSANELY overpowered in siege. There's nothing that prevents archers (my hunter included) from simply blind-spraying arrows everywhere, and you don't even need to be in line of sight or even in open sky. What we have right now are single archers capable of basically this: https://tenor.com/view/bow-arrows-shoot-hit-gif-12968662
3. This could work.

Rework of the Repair/Durability System:
None of the proposed changes would help the server. There's nothing wrong with the current system and, as they say, if it's not broken then why fix it? Also, I don't think you're going to make friends or retain population if you start breaking people's RoGs. If you insist on adding in this type of thing to the game, then I'd suggest adding in droppable items from raids/dungeons and other PvE encounters that can actually be used in the template, rather than making people dependent on unique RoGs that will never spawn the same set of stats twice. I remember in Live, RoG gear was trash/salvage but here it's buckets of plat for high utility items.

Buff Shearing:
No to all of these things. Just...no. In fact, edit the original post and remove the whole buff shearing idea entirely and let's all pretend you fine Phoenix developers didn't suggest it at all. You might as well just line up every buffing class in the game and sucker punch each one of them outright, because that's what buff shearing is going to basically end up doing if it's implemented. It's hard enough for healers to keep groups alive, curing disease/poison/nearsight, resurrecting the dead, and keeping track of their power bar without throwing even more onto their plate.

In closing, I think that the server could do with some much needed changes and fixes elsewhere. In the interests of maintaining and possibly increasing server population, perhaps those areas should be fixed first. Like, maybe Necromancers shouldn't have the ability to push their pets into a wall, leave them there, and proceed to walk around in invulnerable shade form to set ground targets and recon. Or perhaps consider modifying the excessive amounts of CC in this game so we see some more fluid, dynamic encounters where victory is determined on the outcome of a battle based on the skills of the participants, and not based on who gets the first AOE 50+ second mezz off followed by an AoE stun. Also, while there's some lofty "explanations" for wanting the realm switch timer reduced, I think 12 hours is actually to little time and would actually not mind seeing it increased substantially or removed entirely. In the days of Classic DAOC, you had to wipe your characters completely in order to switch realms on the same server. The only thing I've ever seen it used for on Phoenix since I started is for relic hopping and cross-realming. Reducing the realm switch timer is just going to exacerbate the problem.
Sun 15 Sep 2019 7:48 AM by Raunz
Keelia wrote: ↑
Sat 14 Sep 2019 5:51 PM
You guys created the caster meta by catering to the trash zergs. How bout you make more incentives to 8 man instead of pveing keeps for RPs. Add a multiplier for kills to influence RP bonuses. That way people who are actually killing people get rewarded for it and those just taking keeps get basic RPs

This.
Sun 15 Sep 2019 7:56 AM by Raunz
How about this, I will put together a team with people I know and even more include some snakes that will balance this for you.
Sun 15 Sep 2019 8:01 AM by LedriTheThane
Really dislike changing the whole repair stuff, especially if rogs get destroyed. Spending tons of BP for a whole outfit and by the time you get every piece you have to replace it does NOT sound fun.
Sun 15 Sep 2019 8:03 AM by trawetsnivek
LedriTheThane wrote: ↑
Sun 15 Sep 2019 8:01 AM
Really dislike changing the whole repair stuff, especially if rogs get destroyed. Spending tons of BP for a whole outfit and by the time you get every piece you have to replace it does NOT sound fun.

Hey Ledri, when are you planning on coming back? Are you not tired of WOW yet?
Sun 15 Sep 2019 8:43 AM by Kimahri
I just came back from a 5 month break after the charge nerf by the devs, and they are already giving me a new reason to leave again. During the early days of the server, assassin fights lasted like 15 seconds, now they last like 30 seconds and with this change (remedy/more hp) fights will last even longer giving others a greater opportunity to add fights. Its quite funny that Uthgard killed itself because it didn't change whereas Phoenix is shooting itself in the foot because of changes. I suspect next year when the server population drops, we will hear people say, "oh its just summer, they will come back".
Sun 15 Sep 2019 9:43 AM by Wushu
One wonders if the devs on pheonix already have a DAOC experience !! because they are killing this server without realizing it.
Sun 15 Sep 2019 10:01 AM by galac
As I read these potential changes I felt like being in a really bad horror movie - if you even implement some of these changes I'm sure it will kill the server. Overall the server is fine as it is!

few comments:
1) Tanker/Melee vs. Casters
If you want to scale this battle a buff (only) to AOM is enough. but not 39%. ~ 30% should be a good starting point - also this can be finetuned in the process later. Don't overextend and nerf back - this pisses the community the most.
Second you shouldn't get more rps when zerging (with a lot of casters in the zerg) so think about clever ways to buff 8vs8 rps.
2) Bows/Scouts
Bow damage is totally fine these days but the scaling is a complete disaster. This broken scaling also leads to the major problem of the scout. Hib/Mid can do the attractive split specc with fine dam on bow and melee - Scouts not. So if ~70 specc would represent 100% (and not 100% at 52) scouts will be rewarded for going massive bow. sure some scouts will whine that they can't go full meelee but that's the game. I'm also not able to go full mentalism. i know that rangers and hunters won't agree to me as they also have to decide which way to go ;-)
Sun 15 Sep 2019 11:14 AM by Zaca
pure comedy
Sun 15 Sep 2019 11:24 AM by Cadebrennus
Wushu wrote: ↑
Sun 15 Sep 2019 9:43 AM
One wonders if the devs on pheonix already have a DAOC experience !! because they are killing this server without realizing it.

Apparently John at Broadsword from Live is their hero
Sun 15 Sep 2019 12:08 PM by Taniquetil
Lets add Warlocks and Minotaurs too while we are at it.

Sarcasm aside this is a wild set of changes. RR5’s are risky. Remedy is a bad idea, just adds another ‘win’ button, without skill since there is not much else to combat it, live had malic/battler and CL abilities and mezz poisons, adding it here will just be an instant win if the opponent doesnt also have it up.

hp pool increases mean fights last longer/encourages adding.

Equally lower MOP and increase Pd? Bd’s will become even more OP 😂 lol. That kinda pushes people more towards casters than away from them imo.

Very much moving away from the original intention of the server with these propositions. As always, love that you’re thinking/trying new things but it seems bizarre to just repeat history by adding toa bonuses, seems like treading the same path as live did.
Sun 15 Sep 2019 12:13 PM by Wakanidoo
Ok to reduce gradually the effectiveness of the Condition of the items when the equipment wears out and so forces to repair it, but please, no reduction in the life of the equipment ! Simply remove the Durability.
Sun 15 Sep 2019 12:18 PM by Nypon
1. TTK
The best way to prevent caster damage is to interrupt and CC. If your group is to bad to do this with nearsights, amnesia and other means then you deserve to be punished for it and lose.

Lowering damage and increasing hit points and having a play-style/tactics that is based around absorbing caster damage and healing it off is just lame and boring.

If you want to improve defensive options then maybe improve Divine Intervention to have at least live-like values(di5: 3000).

2. Volley
I do think Volley and also GTAOE, needs a nerf in keeps. My suggestion would be to give them the TWF treatment and make them require line of sight in keeps to have any effect on the enemy. This would make it more fun to defend keeps against larger enemy zergs that spams Volley and GTAOE on you wherever you stand.
Sun 15 Sep 2019 12:58 PM by Sixin2082
Please do not make jewelry degrade.
Sun 15 Sep 2019 1:07 PM by Shamissa
Seriously how about start with the small change? like placing some guards on the relic town. reduce the amount of guards in keeps.
and since we have NF why not open MK for business, EV area would be a lot more fun if that ck was open.
reduce the dmg of volley is just ridiculous how an archer can kill people just by volley, take offt the treb from roof of ck, so many things that could be fix instead of add
more new stuff. That's my honestly opinion.
Sun 15 Sep 2019 1:09 PM by ExcretusMaximus
YES:
Add RR5 abilities
Increase the con hp multiplier as champion levels
Add con and hp overcap + fill gems
add a custom multiplier that starts below 100% and scales up to ~115 or 125% based on base bow spec
Move volley to 45 or 50 archery, add 1 minute cooldown


NO:
Increase PD and AoM to 39% at tier 9
Decrease WP and MoP to 25% at tier 9
Penetrating arrow: allow self bt penetration with reduced damage
Buff Shearing

I love buff shears, but let's not pretend the realms have ever been balanced as far as that mechanic is concerned; all adding buff shears here will do is increase the strength of the most dominant realm and leave Alb and Hib trying to decide if it's worth having a third Druid/Cleric just so they can compete with a Shaman's ability to steal all their group's buffs.
Sun 15 Sep 2019 1:11 PM by Gaven
Its kinda funny after reading most answers how different people are, none is 100% happy with ALL the changes but ANY of the changes are liked by some people depending on what they play and how they play. We are so freaking biased and any and all of us would suck at balance =p
Sun 15 Sep 2019 1:25 PM by gruenesschaf
It's incredible how many people are unable to read and rant about having to retemplate or items being destroyed. The part that prevents retemplating in case of the +con/hp gems is that they would be added to existing accessory items, it's even in bold. The part that makes the worry about items being destroyed invalid is "3) Add a feather / bp / gold way to repair durability".

Also to clarify, right now every single lost condition point affects the damage done with a melee weapon or the af provided by an armor piece as it's supposed to, the change to only apply penalties below 90% condition would mean that there is no effect whatsoever until the item reaches 90% condition, meaning the condition would no longer reduce the damage done / af provided until then.

Looks like the mantra of buffing things instead of nerfing is not as welcome as people usually claim. In order to push it away from the caster meta, the obvious alternative to buffing the hp is to just nerf the damage, or to be more specific the resist debuffs. Also great to see people proposing a debuff resist cap of 0 or 5, not realizing that those values are pretty close to the soft caps already due to the way resist debuffs work against resists from items.

Without any ttk increase that would also mean that there would be no change to archery damage scaling with base bow spec and 52 comp would remain all you need. Also great to see once again people without any clue about mechanics claiming it's broken, it's not but it's unexpected and the reasons why a custom change was proposed to make it reflect what people would expect: that speccing more than 35 in bow has some noticeable effect. However, the current bow damage with the current hp values is fine.
Sun 15 Sep 2019 1:45 PM by Gaven
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sun 15 Sep 2019 1:25 PM
It's incredible how many people are unable to read and rant about having to retemplate or items being destroyed. The part that prevents retemplating in case of the +con/hp gems is that they would be added to existing accessory items, it's even in bold. The part that makes the worry about items being destroyed invalid is "3) Add a feather / bp / gold way to repair durability".

Also to clarify, right now every single lost condition point affects the damage done with a melee weapon or the af provided by an armor piece as it's supposed to, the change to only apply penalties below 90% condition would mean that there is no effect whatsoever until the item reaches 90% condition, meaning the condition would no longer reduce the damage done / af provided until then.

Looks like the mantra of buffing things instead of nerfing is not as welcome as people usually claim. In order to push it away from the caster meta, the obvious alternative to buffing the hp is to just nerf the damage, or to be more specific the resist debuffs. Also great to see people proposing a debuff resist cap of 0 or 5, not realizing that those values are pretty close to the soft caps already due to the way resist debuffs work against resists from items.

Without any ttk increase that would also mean that there would be no change to archery damage scaling with base bow spec and 52 comp would remain all you need. Also great to see once again people without any clue about mechanics claiming it's broken, it's not but it's unexpected and the reasons why a custom change was proposed to make it reflect what people would expect: that speccing more than 35 in bow has some noticeable effect. However, the current bow damage with the current hp values is fine.

At the end of the dayeveryone has an opinions and it will always be terribly biased for their gameplay/team its you guys who should implement the chanegs and then they have the options to keep playing or leave its not like any player is paying you guys for your time/effort. So i say go ahead implement the changes you guys think would be fun, maybe in small steps? But sometiems changes need to be put together to make sence.
Sun 15 Sep 2019 2:56 PM by Cadebrennus
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sun 15 Sep 2019 1:25 PM
It's incredible how many people are unable to read and rant about having to retemplate or items being destroyed. The part that prevents retemplating in case of the +con/hp gems is that they would be added to existing accessory items, it's even in bold. The part that makes the worry about items being destroyed invalid is "3) Add a feather / bp / gold way to repair durability".

Also to clarify, right now every single lost condition point affects the damage done with a melee weapon or the af provided by an armor piece as it's supposed to, the change to only apply penalties below 90% condition would mean that there is no effect whatsoever until the item reaches 90% condition, meaning the condition would no longer reduce the damage done / af provided until then.

Looks like the mantra of buffing things instead of nerfing is not as welcome as people usually claim. In order to push it away from the caster meta, the obvious alternative to buffing the hp is to just nerf the damage, or to be more specific the resist debuffs. Also great to see people proposing a debuff resist cap of 0 or 5, not realizing that those values are pretty close to the soft caps already due to the way resist debuffs work against resists from items.

Without any ttk increase that would also mean that there would be no change to archery damage scaling with base bow spec and 52 comp would remain all you need. Also great to see once again people without any clue about mechanics claiming it's broken, it's not but it's unexpected and the reasons why a custom change was proposed to make it reflect what people would expect: that speccing more than 35 in bow has some noticeable effect. However, the current bow damage with the current hp values is fine.

How about you stop messing with the code and leave things as they are? Since the end of beta you've been tweaking this and that resulting in a lot of pissed off players. Instead of all of these insane "inspired by John at Broadsword" changes, you could revert the code back to beta values (before the physical damage nerfs) and just stick to fixing bugs and some minor QoL stuff.

While I appreciate all of the hard work you guys do, what I don't appreciate is being gone from the game from between a few days to a few weeks and coming back to a different game each time. Just tell "the good idea fairy" to piss off and stick to the game we all enjoy.
.
.

.
.
Sun 15 Sep 2019 2:56 PM by Amnesiaa
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sun 15 Sep 2019 1:25 PM
It's incredible how many people are unable to read and rant about having to retemplate or items being destroyed. The part that prevents retemplating in case of the +con/hp gems is that they would be added to existing accessory items, it's even in bold. The part that makes the worry about items being destroyed invalid is "3) Add a feather / bp / gold way to repair durability".

Also to clarify, right now every single lost condition point affects the damage done with a melee weapon or the af provided by an armor piece as it's supposed to, the change to only apply penalties below 90% condition would mean that there is no effect whatsoever until the item reaches 90% condition, meaning the condition would no longer reduce the damage done / af provided until then.

Looks like the mantra of buffing things instead of nerfing is not as welcome as people usually claim. In order to push it away from the caster meta, the obvious alternative to buffing the hp is to just nerf the damage, or to be more specific the resist debuffs. Also great to see people proposing a debuff resist cap of 0 or 5, not realizing that those values are pretty close to the soft caps already due to the way resist debuffs work against resists from items.

Without any ttk increase that would also mean that there would be no change to archery damage scaling with base bow spec and 52 comp would remain all you need. Also great to see once again people without any clue about mechanics claiming it's broken, it's not but it's unexpected and the reasons why a custom change was proposed to make it reflect what people would expect: that speccing more than 35 in bow has some noticeable effect. However, the current bow damage with the current hp values is fine.

you guys obviously have no clue at all about this game, and yet you have to act like god and change it from what it is right now.
like aom9 right now is 20%, 39% ? where does that even come from lol. rr5 abilities on a classic server yeaa it sounds like a huge yikes to me
you guys are crying about tanks being too bad well... let's talk about ment eld sorc theurg rm rr5 ? most of those are a perfect counter to tanks, don't see how its going to help tanks.
just let the game the way it is don't act like broadsword it will end up the same way.
Sun 15 Sep 2019 3:31 PM by Kaziera
Imo just buff hitpoints.

It helps tanks, by making sustained damage more valuable.

It nerfs casters by making burst debuff damage harder to apply.

Start from there and let it run like 2 monts.
Sun 15 Sep 2019 3:45 PM by gruenesschaf
Amnesiaa wrote: ↑
Sun 15 Sep 2019 2:56 PM
you guys obviously have no clue at all about this game, and yet you have to act like god and change it from what it is right now.
like aom9 right now is 20%, 39% ? where does that even come from lol. rr5 abilities on a classic server yeaa it sounds like a huge yikes to me
you guys are crying about tanks being too bad well... let's talk about ment eld sorc theurg rm rr5 ? most of those are a perfect counter to tanks, don't see how its going to help tanks.
just let the game the way it is don't act like broadsword it will end up the same way.

The exact percentages are incredibly important at this point, it's not like almost nobody specs aom until much later because the 20% return is seen as too small and hence an increase could change that perception so that it's actually used even before damage ras, but sure let's just complain about the exact percentage at this point rather than the general concept wrt the goal.

And sure, increasing the ttk and hence giving a lot more chances for errors without any new ways to get out of those situations while also making mana become a likely issue sounds like just a slight push away from caster, therefore those defensive rr5s are completely unreasonable to be introduced at the same time as some hp buff or damage reduction.
Sun 15 Sep 2019 4:08 PM by Svekt
There is a pretty consistent theme here. Big changes happen and the bleed of players becomes worse.

How many things are in the list for the bug tracker?
Could we, instead of adding new abilities/ toys /tricks etc , just fix the code? How many times I've gone LD or the lag spikes. Can we just get solid code and bug fixes?

It's classic patch WITH qol enhancements I get it, but we've drifted so far from classic now it's not what the majority of people came here to play. This is now a modified version of our gaming memories.

People in the daoc community are adults with kids and grandkids, sometimes we are lucky and their kids play as well. They have jobs and responsibilities. Every time we make a major change to this server those people have to stop and adjust, read patch notes etc and then figure it out. We still have players who are asking questions about fixes from months ago.

I used to be sure and confident about how this game works, and now that it's a combination of various patches im not too sure we are even giving accurate or relevant information to newer players in relation to how it works on Phoenix.

I have been in too many conversations where it goes "in daoc this works like (description), but this is Phoenix so you never know".

Like cast breaks vs linear equations etc etc.

We have patched and changed this thing so many times and to be honest, the player base you have left have been real champions of change to have lasted this long.

But at some point you're going to have a bunch of players who have had too much. If you want us gone that's fine, maybe you don't like our play style or who we are as people but the bottom line is you need a population. You need zergs to create traffic for the small mans and 8 mans to pick off. You need action to create keep and tower warfare to draw people to areas. your most valuable resource right now is your player base. You may not like that we don't like some or all of the changes you work to implement but what is the server without the players?

Be pationate and give us what was advertised, classic centric with qol enhancements. Then just solidify the code. Stop burning us out with changes. Some players have all the time in the world to adapt and some don't. You will lose the ones that don't and the population will look like that if uthgards.

Sorry to be negative, but I tried to post this as respectfully as possible.
Sun 15 Sep 2019 4:30 PM by exveer
Please no buff shearing. I was so happy when it was killed from the beta, let's keep it killed.
Sun 15 Sep 2019 6:14 PM by Sepplord
Personal really hate the idea of buffshearing. Buffing is one of the most unfun things in daoc and making that even more tedious and repetitive isnt something i look forward to

It would also further weaken smallman/soloers, just as higher TTK reduces the ability of going against bigger numbers by getting a surprise Engagement. As a smallman-player i am ofcourse biased but i dont really see the appeal of going, yet again adding new stuff that will alienate another bunch of people.
If casters are too strong then increase THEIR timetokill. Not everyones. While an overall higher ttk would help melees more than casters it changes much more than just the caster/melee Balance.


The repair changes sound good, i just hope the prices wont be overdone 😉
Sun 15 Sep 2019 6:46 PM by Freedomcall
Svekt wrote: ↑
Sun 15 Sep 2019 4:08 PM
People in the daoc community are adults with kids and grandkids, sometimes we are lucky and their kids play as well. They have jobs and responsibilities. Every time we make a major change to this server those people have to stop and adjust, read patch notes etc and then figure it out. We still have players who are asking questions about fixes from months ago.

I used to be sure and confident about how this game works, and now that it's a combination of various patches im not too sure we are even giving accurate or relevant information to newer players in relation to how it works on Phoenix.

I have been in too many conversations where it goes "in daoc this works like (description), but this is Phoenix so you never know".

Be pationate and give us what was advertised, classic centric with qol enhancements. Then just solidify the code. Stop burning us out with changes. Some players have all the time in the world to adapt and some don't. You will lose the ones that don't and the population will look like that if uthgards.

This is so true.
You gotta listen to this guy.
Sometimes even good changes make things worse, because "casuals" trying to learn news things based on new patches and catching up the new meta becomes a burden.
Making too many drastic changes can make casuals exhausted.
Sun 15 Sep 2019 7:08 PM by carlwinslow
1. hell no to buff sheers, buffing is already the most boring thing in this game.
2. Make some kind of custom buff macros we can plan out to do every buff we want to do in one cast. For instance 4 bases to one spell, 3/4 spec buffs to one spell. Make buffing faster in general.
Sun 15 Sep 2019 8:08 PM by Keilli
Keelia wrote: ↑
Sat 14 Sep 2019 7:02 PM
Your population took a huge hit with the release of WoW classic. You need to let things balance out before you start some broadsword changes. If anything add some QoL things. Timers on the move, buffing macros, add a straight up PvP zone like stygia or volcanus. That way with the low pop all 8 mans can just fight and roam those areas and the baddies can stick to their PvE for RPs, oh yea you should make it so the zergers get less RPs for The mid Zerg is out of control right now and needs to be addressed. Currently for NA prime time mid has been basically a higher pop than the other 2 realms combined. The basic RP bonus isn’t enough there needs to be more incentive to play the lower population realms.

As for love for tanks not seeing how this is even on the table. I mean they all get det 9 and stoicism, as it is right now they are essentially CC immune. Issue is people aren’t playing melee groups right. The guilds who used to run melee groups did just fine against all other group composites, whether it hybrid or full caster. People need to just play better; don’t mold the game around the bad players to help them out.

As for caster group meta, like I said before YOU created this meta. By catering to the Zerg and making it worthwhile to Zerg the 8 mans had to adapt to stand any chance against the odds. Fact is melee groups don’t fight zergs, at least not nearly as well as a caster extend group. If anything you need to boost caster groups, especially if you are going to let zerging continue the way it is. As it is right now you are going to loose the entire 8 man population.

There needs to be more of an incentive for 8 mans/small mans and there needs to be less of a draw to zerging. Right now you can afk keep farm and basically earn 10-15k per hour. Take away the keep bonus multiplier and lower the amount of RPs you get for taking a keep, make it static, 300 for a tower and 500 for a keep, regardless of how long or how many were killed in the process. Took you 2 hours and you killed 100 defenders? Cool here’s 500rps; took you 10 mins cause it was empty with no defenders? Cool here’s 500 RPs. Leave the bonus pool for the defenders, leaving an incentive to defend and stand against the keep taking baddies.

Well said and I agree with Skandalus as well. I think in the end you need to remember what drew your server to have 4k population just 5 months ago and has dropped down considerably in the past 3 months. A lot of the community, especially the 8 man and small mans have left, because they were zerged off the server. Like many others have stated, while it has social benefits for that realm, it has way more negative impacts for the rest of the community. Your current system has led people to not logging into the game or being motivated to spend their time else. That has led to the server losing its brand recognition and maintaining that population.

The RP bonus has not been effective in addressing these concerns and the realm timer has even been more damaging to player morale. You need to trust your players and allow them a chance to address the population on their own by giving them flexibility. As of today, a player does not know what a current view of the realm map looks like or a population base UNTIL they log INTO the game, iso they have no way to help out an underpopulated realm. Instead of being able to fix a solution, they add to the problem and make it worse. A lot of players will continue to stay loyal or committed to their realm, but a good number of players, like me would flip to other lower pop realms to help even the fight.

Trust me, you do not keep players engaged or enticed by allowing them to mindlessly PVE keeps or beat enemy groups when they out number them 3 or more to 1. Players come back when they reminisce about those even fights that took 10 or minutes to complete uninterrupted. Right now, a lot of players feel cheated by the system in place as they have a great fight and are about to win, but another group or two comes into the fight to change the outcome. That happens a few times and now they lose motivation to play the game and log out, so now the population gets worse.

In regards to buff sheering, it will cause more problems (besides the fact that most of your player base hates it) than add any value. Keep in mind that on live, buffing is immune to interrupts and caster speeding is night and day between live and Phoenix, so it works on live, but again it is not well desired by the overall population. Also, most players on live no longer buff and instead take potions. I am sorry, but I just do not see any real gains on this suggestion at all.

These suggestions just seem like a desperate attempt to reach for something without understand what the problem statement is, so I hope this helps:
Problem Statement: How do we increase the server population, while allow all realms to be more evenly balanced in numbers?

For, now I would like to see you add to the areas that you excelled in at the beginning... Quality of Life features. Add things like, a in game mail system to allow people to send items to other players while they are offline. Maybe allow players to access their characters offline, via a web portal, where they can send it items. (i.e. I playing Hibernia, but a good friend needs help on Albion with feathers, allow me to load up a portal to access my toon to buy from the merchant to send him the items) We need to make it easier for players to shift toward Albion and Hibernia as the Midgard population is dominating right now. While we may be Mids/Albs/Hibs at heart, we are still the same player base that loves Dark Age of Camelot. I would also looking at putting in a better system to let solo players, small mans and 8 mans fight go to enjoy their play style. That is IMO, one of the biggest failures in DAoC the loss of allowing peoples to play on their terms more consistently. It seems like we keep dictating to the player base that they have to run zergs or make a caster meta group, while ignoring the number of players that could care less about either approach. We can do better here and we have seen other games show success that lets the players have that flexibility.

For an improvement area, (where I feel you have done poorly) I would encourage you to review your ban process and how/why they were implemented, since they have left some sour tastes in the mouths of many players either impacted by the process or not. I would recommend having an impartial review of the ban suggestion, avoid multiple forms of punishment and being direct on why an infraction took place. (i.e. Being able to discuss the issue with the player instead of the way you have done it today) People react to the way you make them feel and not what you say or did... right now I feel fairly certain that has a lot led to a huge player loss as well. I think it has become another area where the system has made the players feel cheated.

If you have any questions or would like me to elaborate on my feedback, please PM and I would be more than willing to help out.
Sun 15 Sep 2019 8:49 PM by gruenesschaf
Keilli wrote: ↑
Sun 15 Sep 2019 8:08 PM
Problem Statement: How do we increase the server population, while allow all realms to be more evenly balanced in numbers?

There is not a single change, qol or otherwise, that would result in noticeably more players. The only thing that would cause a few players, mainly a couple 8 man, to return for a couple weeks would be a significant reduction / removal of the realm timer when timed with wow classic hitting the loss point in about another 3 - 8 weeks.

If player numbers were the goal, the only single thing that would result in a significant short term boost for 2 - 4 months would be a server reset.
Sun 15 Sep 2019 9:06 PM by Kurbsen
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sun 15 Sep 2019 8:49 PM
Keilli wrote: ↑
Sun 15 Sep 2019 8:08 PM
Problem Statement: How do we increase the server population, while allow all realms to be more evenly balanced in numbers?

There is not a single change, qol or otherwise, that would result in noticeably more players. The only thing that would cause a few players, mainly a couple 8 man, to return for a couple weeks would be a significant reduction / removal of the realm timer when timed with wow classic hitting the loss point in about another 3 - 8 weeks.

If player numbers were the goal, the only single thing that would result in a significant short term boost for 2 - 4 months would be a server reset.

oh cool so when will the removal of the realm timer happen then?! That would be awesome to bring back some of the 8 mans for some more action, Don't you agree??
Sun 15 Sep 2019 9:16 PM by beatrix
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sun 15 Sep 2019 8:49 PM
Keilli wrote: ↑
Sun 15 Sep 2019 8:08 PM
Problem Statement: How do we increase the server population, while allow all realms to be more evenly balanced in numbers?

There is not a single change, qol or otherwise, that would result in noticeably more players. The only thing that would cause a few players, mainly a couple 8 man, to return for a couple weeks would be a significant reduction / removal of the realm timer when timed with wow classic hitting the loss point in about another 3 - 8 weeks.

If player numbers were the goal, the only single thing that would result in a significant short term boost for 2 - 4 months would be a server reset.

"There is not a single change, qol or otherwise, that would result in noticeably more players." - Are you kidding me?? Of course there is! It starts with multiple things like stop adding all these unnecessary live-like changes, adding more RvR events/arenas, going back to old frontiers, and most importantly reducing the realm switch timer! Dude reducing the realm switch timer is not just helping others return but it helps people who are currently playing to be able to play other realms when RvR population is unbalanced... You guys act like you already know the outcome but you don't. We the players know more, we play and see everyday how the population is dwindling down. You guys say you listen to your players but I feel like you guys don't when multiple of us repeatedly tells you guys the real reasons why the server population is dropping... No one cares or wants these new changes.
Sun 15 Sep 2019 11:44 PM by Cadebrennus
The playerbase reaction to the proposed changes:
.
.

.
.
Mon 16 Sep 2019 12:35 AM by elninost0rm
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sun 15 Sep 2019 8:49 PM
Keilli wrote: ↑
Sun 15 Sep 2019 8:08 PM
Problem Statement: How do we increase the server population, while allow all realms to be more evenly balanced in numbers?

There is not a single change, qol or otherwise, that would result in noticeably more players. The only thing that would cause a few players, mainly a couple 8 man, to return for a couple weeks would be a significant reduction / removal of the realm timer when timed with wow classic hitting the loss point in about another 3 - 8 weeks.

If player numbers were the goal, the only single thing that would result in a significant short term boost for 2 - 4 months would be a server reset.

Well said. Nobody seems to understand that this is simply just The Freeshard Cycle and it is always inevitable. People like shiny and new, and DAoC will never have a sustained 4,000 population ever again.
Mon 16 Sep 2019 1:50 AM by Makrist
elninost0rm wrote: ↑
Mon 16 Sep 2019 12:35 AM
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sun 15 Sep 2019 8:49 PM
Keilli wrote: ↑
Sun 15 Sep 2019 8:08 PM
Problem Statement: How do we increase the server population, while allow all realms to be more evenly balanced in numbers?

There is not a single change, qol or otherwise, that would result in noticeably more players. The only thing that would cause a few players, mainly a couple 8 man, to return for a couple weeks would be a significant reduction / removal of the realm timer when timed with wow classic hitting the loss point in about another 3 - 8 weeks.

If player numbers were the goal, the only single thing that would result in a significant short term boost for 2 - 4 months would be a server reset.

Well said. Nobody seems to understand that this is simply just The Freeshard Cycle and it is always inevitable. People like shiny and new, and DAoC will never have a sustained 4,000 population ever again.

You would think this life cycle of a freeshard would lead to devs listening to their base more when it comes to basic QoL items in an effort to maintain those that do stick around. I had more thoughts on this but Im about to be free from the 12 hour penalty box just because i wanted to play in Hibernia for a day.

Peace...
Mon 16 Sep 2019 1:59 AM by Hayter
1) Add RR5 abilities
This would see the current (excepting necro) live rr5s, most of which are defensive in nature. It'll either be the intended rr5 ability per class or a choice from the RR5s of other classes of the same archetype (war, hero, arms being able to pick one of the 3 etc.)
2) Increase the con hp multiplier as champion levels did, something between cl 10 and 15 could work
3) Add con and hp overcap + fill gems (ie +8 con cap and +8 con in one) that can be bought for feathers / bp and added to existing accessory items


1.2.3

fine with these, RR5s were pretty fun, TTK is a very touchy thing. i mostly think the only TTK issue atm is assains.


4) Increase PD and AoM to 39% at tier 9
5) Decrease WP and MoP to 25% at tier 9 and maybe add +1% (or scaling and ending at ~15% at tier 9) per tier to the minimum crit damage %

4 and 5. i fear this will add to the gap between low RR vs high RR. bad idea IMO.

Archery changes:
1) Given that current 52 comp bow spec represents 100%, add a custom multiplier that starts below 100% and scales up to ~115 or 125% based on base bow spec
2) Move volley to 45 or 50 archery, add 1 minute cooldown
3) Penetrating arrow: allow self bt penetration with reduced damage

1 Fine with this.

2. volley has needed a CD for sure.

3. self BT is already very shitty considering when someone pops your self BT it interrupts even if they do no damage. imo this is not needed.

Potentially a bad idea but potentially exactly what scouts would need:
Add some melee range ability to 50 bow spec with a 10min reuse that applies the static tempest effect on 1 target (3 sec stun + stun immunity reset), maybe restrict crit shot to never work against stunned targets to compensate.

^ not a terrible idea, also not a bow user main so not sure if this is needed.


1) Repair prices are based on the item price, in case of bp / feathers those prices count as copper resulting in those items being incredibly cheap to repair
2) Increased condition loss for too high items is practically meaningless as decay is only a couple times faster than it is on 50
3) Decay on 50 is too slow in general
4) Accessories don't decay at all
5) Focus is not affected by item condition
6) Item bonuses, including +skill, don't care about the item condition

To rectify the more pressing issues these changes are most likely:
1) Repair price will only take the item level into account and nothing else, not even item type
2) Add accessory decay
3) Add a feather / bp / gold way to repair durability
4) Item condition while above 90% will have no negative effect whatsoever but starting at <90% the 10% malus takes effect and it will also affect focus. This is meant to not "require" you to repair over and over again to be at peak efficiency but at the same time make repairs actually required
5) Reduce / disable bonuses once a certain condition is reached to make repairing required


is any of this really needed? what's the harm in accessory items not degrading or other things degrading too slow other than having 1 less thing to worry about

Buff Shearing
If it is implemented it would be the same type of shears for all 3 realms, most likely the fast cast time and 1500 range with no damage variant. Due to the prevalence of self buffing, timed self buffs from items would then also be sheareable. If shears are added, conc spells would become uninterruptible.

No, just flat out no. buffing a group already takes time away from active RvR, this will slow down RvR even further.
Mon 16 Sep 2019 2:05 AM by Hector
I miss the classic settings I came here to play. I also miss OF and when you were rewarded for killing players, not doors
Mon 16 Sep 2019 2:20 AM by gotwqqd
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sun 15 Sep 2019 3:45 PM
Amnesiaa wrote: ↑
Sun 15 Sep 2019 2:56 PM
you guys obviously have no clue at all about this game, and yet you have to act like god and change it from what it is right now.
like aom9 right now is 20%, 39% ? where does that even come from lol. rr5 abilities on a classic server yeaa it sounds like a huge yikes to me
you guys are crying about tanks being too bad well... let's talk about ment eld sorc theurg rm rr5 ? most of those are a perfect counter to tanks, don't see how its going to help tanks.
just let the game the way it is don't act like broadsword it will end up the same way.

The exact percentages are incredibly important at this point, it's not like almost nobody specs aom until much later because the 20% return is seen as too small and hence an increase could change that perception so that it's actually used even before damage ras, but sure let's just complain about the exact percentage at this point rather than the general concept wrt the goal.

And sure, increasing the ttk and hence giving a lot more chances for errors without any new ways to get out of those situations while also making mana become a likely issue sounds like just a slight push away from caster, therefore those defensive rr5s are completely unreasonable to be introduced at the same time as some hp buff or damage reduction.
Why would you change an RA instead of fixing the root problem?
I don’t think buffing an RA that not all use makes sense
Mon 16 Sep 2019 2:28 AM by gotwqqd
How would people feel about being able to cast stat buffs while on the move.
This is not saying shearing should be implemented with this as a solution.
Mon 16 Sep 2019 6:32 AM by Razur Ur
Server is so broken, my Champ snare is broken if i hit cast bubble from Caster? For what is champ snare well? Timer and resist rate is to high! And plz not Buff Shear! For what? With buffsheare get Caster Domination greater and Off Tanks going faster down ;-/. Buff sheare is the greatest crap in this game.
Mon 16 Sep 2019 8:06 AM by LedriTheThane
trawetsnivek wrote: ↑
Sun 15 Sep 2019 8:03 AM
LedriTheThane wrote: ↑
Sun 15 Sep 2019 8:01 AM
Really dislike changing the whole repair stuff, especially if rogs get destroyed. Spending tons of BP for a whole outfit and by the time you get every piece you have to replace it does NOT sound fun.

Hey Ledri, when are you planning on coming back? Are you not tired of WOW yet?

WoW has a lot more content than Phoenix does haha, doubt I'll get bored for years
Mon 16 Sep 2019 9:30 AM by Tamy
First of all: Thanks for your efforts with the server and the fact that your still trying to optimize it and giving new content to the players.

RR5 RA's: Please just don't. It will generate even more imbalance between certain classes and make more people quit. Remedy is just one example how dumb these RA's are.

Increase HP-Pool: I don't get it tbh, this moves even more in the direction of the live server which should not be the target in my understanding.

Archery Changes: Great to see that you are trying to give an incentive for a higher bow spec than 35. If you are only willing to deliver that (no.1) together with the dmg/hp adjusting then I have to vote "no" unfortunately. I like the fact that you care about the current state of the scout but I don't really know if such an ability would be the right way. Has to be tested I guess or at least be discussed in a separate scout changes thread.

Repair System: I would just get rid completely of any durability reduction tbh and I definitely don't like it at all regarding jewelery. Yes I know, you would offer some kind of way to get the durability back by gold/feather I still don't get it why we need another money pit hole.

Buff Shearing: I'm not affected by it a whole lot with my current playstyle so I'll let that decide these players which are affected by it.
Mon 16 Sep 2019 10:29 AM by Tarticus74
Not feeling the RR5 as I play a SB the remedy will mainly only be used vs NS and Infils its pointless vs any other toon, if its down you loose simple as that if other person uses it.

Other RR5 effect all classes and some are way more overpowered than others.

Durability just remove it I don't mind fixing my stuff for gold but not loosing durability as well I already retemplated once mainly as durability was low and it bugged me just get rid as would just be something to spend more gold and feathers on.

Buff sheers would just be a pain doesn't really effect me as much as a stealth but I can imagine getting into a fight buff sheer class adds and strips me of some buffs I win the fight buff sheer toon runs off leaving me waiting a large period of time to use a pot and reapply buffs just keeps people out of rvr for longer and I didn't think that was the general idea.

As for increasing HP etc and plus to caps will just mean everyone will have to retemp and spend less time in RvR again and will increase the time to kill which is more chance of picking up an add and increases zerg vs zerg play if this is what the server wants then I guess this would just increase it.
Mon 16 Sep 2019 11:05 AM by Uthred
No need to retemp:

3) Add con and hp overcap + fill gems (ie +8 con cap and +8 con in one) that can be bought for feathers / bp and added to existing accessory items
Mon 16 Sep 2019 11:50 AM by elninost0rm
Uthred wrote: ↑
Mon 16 Sep 2019 11:05 AM
No need to retemp:

3) Add con and hp overcap + fill gems (ie +8 con cap and +8 con in one) that can be bought for feathers / bp and added to existing accessory items

That would require people to read.
Mon 16 Sep 2019 12:05 PM by Tamy
Uthred wrote: ↑
Mon 16 Sep 2019 11:05 AM
No need to retemp:

3) Add con and hp overcap + fill gems (ie +8 con cap and +8 con in one) that can be bought for feathers / bp and added to existing accessory items

Yes, I welcome that. I'm still no fan regarding increased HP and longer fights though.
Mon 16 Sep 2019 12:26 PM by Forlornhope
Would degrading accessories and durability loss on those not cause people to retemplate? Since everything is rog based as soon as one breaks you have to completely redo the temp. I read someone saying something about being able to get the item back with gold or feathers, but what would be the point or doing it at all? The rapid durability degrade on the server is already too extreme imo. It's not very QOL, I guess you can just repeatedly repair the item while it's still at 100% con and it doesn't degrade.. so then why bother having anything degrade at all? I am very against adding con cap increases, unless you way over scale the amount of hp increased per point of con it wouldn't really make a difference in terms of the caster meta. And then to increase AoM while decreasing WP would go way too far, maybe try increasing AoM and leaving WP alone or vise versa, but it would give one realm way too big an advantage (the realm that's generally overpop during NA times, mid would receive a huge buff with being unkillable monsters with celerity. Give wardens/pallys celerity to balance it out. I am pretty much all for the archery changes, though I think scouts need a little love. Them being stuck on buff pots has left them at a disadvantage for far too long. Giving scouts access to a stun longer than 9 seconds is crazy, that would do much more harm than good. I played cleric/sham/and druid, I think they're fine as is. Buff shear is not necessary.
Mon 16 Sep 2019 12:42 PM by reptar
No thanks to the changes. Especially buff shearing.
Mon 16 Sep 2019 1:02 PM by Roto23
Mavella wrote: ↑
Sun 15 Sep 2019 3:11 AM
I'll definitely be quitting if remedy is added. Another layer of iwin in sin fights is not necessary when you already need purge and double heal with a preloaded ablative to stand a chance in most encounters with equal rank/skill opponents.

No thank you.

Folks help me out here, why is Remedy an I win button?
"Negates poisons on the target by decreasing HP by 10%, then causes immunity to poisons. Can be safely activated in stealth. 60s duration, 5m re-use."
I can see this as pissing off Sb's and Infs, but I don't see this helping them against other classes or am I missing something because I don't play any stealth classes
Mon 16 Sep 2019 1:17 PM by chryso
Forlornhope wrote: ↑
Mon 16 Sep 2019 12:26 PM
Would degrading accessories and durability loss on those not cause people to retemplate?

3) Add a feather / bp / gold way to repair durability

I will admit, I missed this on a first reading also.
Mon 16 Sep 2019 1:20 PM by vxr
Roto23 wrote: ↑
Mon 16 Sep 2019 1:02 PM
Mavella wrote: ↑
Sun 15 Sep 2019 3:11 AM
I'll definitely be quitting if remedy is added. Another layer of iwin in sin fights is not necessary when you already need purge and double heal with a preloaded ablative to stand a chance in most encounters with equal rank/skill opponents.

No thank you.

Folks help me out here, why is Remedy an I win button?
"Negates poisons on the target by decreasing HP by 10%, then causes immunity to poisons. Can be safely activated in stealth. 60s duration, 5m re-use."
I can see this as pissing off Sb's and Infs, but I don't see this helping them against other classes or am I missing something because I don't play any stealth classes

Mavella is saying is that it is an iwin in assassin vs assassin fights. An assassin with remedy up has a big advantage vs an assassin that has it on cool-down.
Scenario 1: Both have it on cool-down - no effect
Scenario 2: Both have it up and use it - effect lower skill cap because no need to swap weapons
Scenario 3: One has it up and another has it down - effect give one assassin an advantage because of a cool-down.

What's the point of it?
Mon 16 Sep 2019 1:23 PM by Roto23
vxr wrote: ↑
Mon 16 Sep 2019 1:20 PM
Roto23 wrote: ↑
Mon 16 Sep 2019 1:02 PM
Mavella wrote: ↑
Sun 15 Sep 2019 3:11 AM
I'll definitely be quitting if remedy is added. Another layer of iwin in sin fights is not necessary when you already need purge and double heal with a preloaded ablative to stand a chance in most encounters with equal rank/skill opponents.

No thank you.

Folks help me out here, why is Remedy an I win button?
"Negates poisons on the target by decreasing HP by 10%, then causes immunity to poisons. Can be safely activated in stealth. 60s duration, 5m re-use."
I can see this as pissing off Sb's and Infs, but I don't see this helping them against other classes or am I missing something because I don't play any stealth classes

Mavella is saying is that it is an iwin in assassin vs assassin fights. An assassin with remedy up has a big advantage vs an assassin that has it on cool-down.
Scenario 1: Both have it on cool-down - no effect
Scenario 2: Both have it up and use it - effect lower skill cap because no need to swap weapons
Scenario 3: One has it up and another has it down - effect give one assassin an advantage because of a cool-down.

What's the point of it?

thank you. I didn't know all assassins get it, I though it was only Night Shade
Mon 16 Sep 2019 1:26 PM by vxr
Roto23 wrote: ↑
Mon 16 Sep 2019 1:23 PM
vxr wrote: ↑
Mon 16 Sep 2019 1:20 PM
Roto23 wrote: ↑
Mon 16 Sep 2019 1:02 PM
Folks help me out here, why is Remedy an I win button?
"Negates poisons on the target by decreasing HP by 10%, then causes immunity to poisons. Can be safely activated in stealth. 60s duration, 5m re-use."
I can see this as pissing off Sb's and Infs, but I don't see this helping them against other classes or am I missing something because I don't play any stealth classes

Mavella is saying is that it is an iwin in assassin vs assassin fights. An assassin with remedy up has a big advantage vs an assassin that has it on cool-down.
Scenario 1: Both have it on cool-down - no effect
Scenario 2: Both have it up and use it - effect lower skill cap because no need to swap weapons
Scenario 3: One has it up and another has it down - effect give one assassin an advantage because of a cool-down.

What's the point of it?

thank you. I didn't know all assassins get it, I though it was only Night Shade

Ah, okay your confusion makes sense now. Ya I am pretty sure that at one time it was an NS ability, but then they gave it to all assassins and I am pretty sure that's how they would do it here.
Mon 16 Sep 2019 1:45 PM by cv202
RR5 abilities with options would be great.

CL stuff not needed. Most players are not here to grind, so please don¨t go down the same path that DAOC did and add random, unneeded stuff that killed the pop.
Same for repairs, I mean come on, this is a freeshard, why force people to spend so much damn time grinding frustrating things? Just remove durability altogether and let people focus on what is fun in the game (PVP and, for some, instances/bosses).

A few of the suggestions are clearly in favour of Albion. Maybe work on fixing the least populated realm(s) before buffing the most populated one? Or do you think forcing players to either choose hardcore mode and fighting against the odds is what the majority of remaining players will do, or are they more likely to switch to the roflstomping realm(s) and suddenly the 3-way RVR (which was what made DAOC great) turns into a 2-way and then finally a PVE server?


I thank you for dedicating time to bring back the nostalgic feel of DAOC, at the same time I am investing my own personal time in it, so it is very tempting to just call it quits and find another timesink rather than playing something with needless grind, stupid imbalances and whims of GMs (i.e. Animist nerf).
Mon 16 Sep 2019 2:07 PM by Roto23
cv202 wrote: ↑
Mon 16 Sep 2019 1:45 PM
RR5 abilities with options would be great.

CL stuff not needed. Most players are not here to grind, so please don¨t go down the same path that DAOC did and add random, unneeded stuff that killed the pop.
Same for repairs, I mean come on, this is a freeshard, why force people to spend so much damn time grinding frustrating things? Just remove durability altogether and let people focus on what is fun in the game (PVP and, for some, instances/bosses).

A few of the suggestions are clearly in favour of Albion. Maybe work on fixing the least populated realm(s) before buffing the most populated one? Or do you think forcing players to either choose hardcore mode and fighting against the odds is what the majority of remaining players will do, or are they more likely to switch to the roflstomping realm(s) and suddenly the 3-way RVR (which was what made DAOC great) turns into a 2-way and then finally a PVE server?


I thank you for dedicating time to bring back the nostalgic feel of DAOC, at the same time I am investing my own personal time in it, so it is very tempting to just call it quits and find another timesink rather than playing something with needless grind, stupid imbalances and whims of GMs (i.e. Animist nerf).
tanglers needed to be nerfed.
Mon 16 Sep 2019 2:31 PM by gruenesschaf
vxr wrote: ↑
Mon 16 Sep 2019 1:26 PM
Roto23 wrote: ↑
Mon 16 Sep 2019 1:23 PM
vxr wrote: ↑
Mon 16 Sep 2019 1:20 PM
Mavella is saying is that it is an iwin in assassin vs assassin fights. An assassin with remedy up has a big advantage vs an assassin that has it on cool-down.
Scenario 1: Both have it on cool-down - no effect
Scenario 2: Both have it up and use it - effect lower skill cap because no need to swap weapons
Scenario 3: One has it up and another has it down - effect give one assassin an advantage because of a cool-down.

What's the point of it?

thank you. I didn't know all assassins get it, I though it was only Night Shade

Ah, okay your confusion makes sense now. Ya I am pretty sure that at one time it was an NS ability, but then they gave it to all assassins and I am pretty sure that's how they would do it here.

I don't even know why anybody is talking about remedy as it is not part of the rr5s that would be used, at some point remedy became an ability you get at 50 stealth spec on live. As for the RR5s that would be used you would have 10% miss, 10% damage reduction for ns, 45% lifedrain on melee hits for sb and +15% hit for infiltrators.
Mon 16 Sep 2019 2:59 PM by hyshash
can you post a list of the actual rr5`s?
I dont know if the list found at the official site are the rr5`s currently used or if its outdated
Mon 16 Sep 2019 3:03 PM by vxr
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Mon 16 Sep 2019 2:31 PM
vxr wrote: ↑
Mon 16 Sep 2019 1:26 PM
Roto23 wrote: ↑
Mon 16 Sep 2019 1:23 PM
thank you. I didn't know all assassins get it, I though it was only Night Shade

Ah, okay your confusion makes sense now. Ya I am pretty sure that at one time it was an NS ability, but then they gave it to all assassins and I am pretty sure that's how they would do it here.

I don't even know why anybody is talking about remedy as it is not part of the rr5s that would be used, at some point remedy became an ability you get at 50 stealth spec on live. As for the RR5s that would be used you would have 10% miss, 10% damage reduction for ns, 45% lifedrain on melee hits for sb and +15% hit for infiltrators.

Well I was just responding to a question regarding why remedy is considered an iwin, but your OP says that it would be the current R5 and according to https://www.darkageofcamelot.com/content/realm-abilities the R5 for all 3 assassins is remedy. Maybe that list hasn't been updated. I haven't played on live in a really long time so I have no idea. Is there a more current list somewhere?
Mon 16 Sep 2019 4:51 PM by gruenesschaf
vxr wrote: ↑
Mon 16 Sep 2019 3:03 PM
Well I was just responding to a question regarding why remedy is considered an iwin, but your OP says that it would be the current R5 and according to https://www.darkageofcamelot.com/content/realm-abilities the R5 for all 3 assassins is remedy. Maybe that list hasn't been updated. I haven't played on live in a really long time so I have no idea. Is there a more current list somewhere?

In good old daoc fashion the official website is not up to date, in this case lacking behind several versions: https://darkageofcamelot.com/content/patch-notes-1108. This char planner should have the current ones http://www.excidio.net/charplaner/
Mon 16 Sep 2019 5:01 PM by Gorrsh
We really need buff shearing, because as it stands, Aug in all 3 realms is an entirely passive line. And more often than not, groups want high aug for better buffs, leaving that player with reduced capacity for action mid-fight. Not to mention stat buff potions that give non-buffing classes access to buffs that would otherwise require speccing.

Now if only we also had access to focus shell....
Mon 16 Sep 2019 5:38 PM by Kaziera
Gorrsh wrote: ↑
Mon 16 Sep 2019 5:01 PM
We really need buff shearing, because as it stands, Aug in all 3 realms is an entirely passive line. And more often than not, groups want high aug for better buffs, leaving that player with reduced capacity for action mid-fight. Not to mention stat buff potions that give non-buffing classes access to buffs that would otherwise require speccing.

Now if only we also had access to focus shell....

As a druid, cleric and shaman player i say, hell no.

Buffing is a major pain in the ass as it is. And then you want rebuffs in mid fight while beeing interrupted while you actually need to heal or rupt?

Also you always spec the important tools before you spec motarc, so you also dont miss any fun tools.

Go play a buff class for some time and then come back. You are obviously talking out of your gluteus maximus.
Mon 16 Sep 2019 7:13 PM by Sepplord
Gorrsh wrote: ↑
Mon 16 Sep 2019 5:01 PM
We really need buff shearing, because as it stands, Aug in all 3 realms is an entirely passive line. And more often than not, groups want high aug for better buffs, leaving that player with reduced capacity for action mid-fight. Not to mention stat buff potions that give non-buffing classes access to buffs that would otherwise require speccing.

Now if only we also had access to focus shell....

i haven't heard any of the buffing classes complain about not having enough to do during a fight

what i have heard every single buffclass say though is: god i hate rebuffing people, if we could just have that streamlined somehow...

and don't even get me started how buffshearing makes smallmanning/soloing even worse than it already is.
Mon 16 Sep 2019 7:19 PM by easytoremember
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Mon 16 Sep 2019 4:51 PM
In good old daoc fashion the official website is not up to date, in this case lacking behind several versions: https://darkageofcamelot.com/content/patch-notes-1108. This char planner should have the current ones http://www.excidio.net/charplaner/
BM gets 90% parry/25% resist but disarms himself afterward or is that disarm during bonus?

Warrior's has a learning curve
Wizard yes please

Eldritch's is useful but really shortlived
Healer self ress was cool, given their prevalence in groups it could become a bit ridiculous though
Hero I'm unsure; I guess if they're snaring someone or slam as they're using it it works

With Hunter pet changes here their RA has a good tradeoff

Arms,Bard,BD,Cleric,Champ,Friar,Inf,Pala,Menta are nice looking
Animist,Druid,Caba,Zerk,SB,Theurg are ok
Enchanter almost has self DI
Dunno about NS,RM
Merc is OP
Scout is OP
Shaman is OP
Sorcerer probly OP

Warden laughably shit for a class nobody notices

While SM has good tradeoff in killing his pet
the heal value is huge
Skald I dunno, so used to them SOSing I don't care about their CC immunity
Thane magic buffer would become a headache for casters
VW same as thane not as significant

Savage RA I had used on some previous shards and it was insane to avoid HP loss from shouts, but I've never noted savages killing their own hp much here from shout fade/refresh

Reaver would be getting a bomb on top of TWF, but similar to WoC sees falloff damage, and this case it's not essence resist

Mins pbae mez has huge radius, while the mez itself is short it's an insta floor-wide rupt inside towers
Ranger pbae less likely to show itself but 30% castspeed debuff is insane, pet hitting caster crazy side effect, and instdeath to those same pets is too far

wtf is that necro rr5 LOL
Mon 16 Sep 2019 7:25 PM by Gorrsh
Kaziera wrote: ↑
Mon 16 Sep 2019 5:38 PM
Gorrsh wrote: ↑
Mon 16 Sep 2019 5:01 PM
We really need buff shearing, because as it stands, Aug in all 3 realms is an entirely passive line. And more often than not, groups want high aug for better buffs, leaving that player with reduced capacity for action mid-fight. Not to mention stat buff potions that give non-buffing classes access to buffs that would otherwise require speccing.

Now if only we also had access to focus shell....

As a druid, cleric and shaman player i say, hell no.

Buffing is a major pain in the ass as it is. And then you want rebuffs in mid fight while beeing interrupted while you actually need to heal or rupt?

Also you always spec the important tools before you spec motarc, so you also dont miss any fun tools.

Go play a buff class for some time and then come back. You are obviously talking out of your gluteus maximus.

Mid-fight rebuffs vs heal/rupt is a decision that good players will have to make. It was true on live and it is true here. Buff shearing being a thing actually boosts the effectiveness of self-buffing classes that tend to be discounted for selection of groups.
The existence of buff shearing even challenges groups on the buffing strategy employed in that the non-aug seer/cleric/naturalist will have to weigh the better buffs from their aug teammate against the possibility of losing buffs mid fight if they aren't self buffed.

Yes, buffing is a major pain in the ass, and it should be. The real advantages realized from being buffed ought to have a realistic counter.

And yes, I do kinda have a lot of experience in playing buff classes here and on live. Attack the logic, not the person.
Mon 16 Sep 2019 11:30 PM by eclipse2k
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sat 14 Sep 2019 2:34 PM
2) Increase the con hp multiplier as champion levels did, something between cl 10 and 15 could work
3) Add con and hp overcap + fill gems (ie +8 con cap and +8 con in one) that can be bought for feathers / bp and added to existing accessory items
4) Increase PD and AoM to 39% at tier 9
5) Decrease WP and MoP to 25% at tier 9 and maybe add +1% (or scaling and ending at ~15% at tier 9) per tier to the minimum crit damage %

I don't get why you would want to do any of those changes. Currently, the "low" HP of character correspond to the low damage that characters do, the survivability is comparable to pre-ToA live, and I really think that balance would be screwed up by giving players larger HP pools without increasing damage. This would hugely buff classes like Paladins, and Friars, as a side note, but mostly just draw out fights, meaning more adds. And meaning those poor nukers run out of mana even more.
Honestly, have some compassion for my theurgist, that poor fella is always oom already!
And the WP / MoP nerf on top? Why even? I just can't even imagine what might have prompted this. Bad idea, IMHO.
Mon 16 Sep 2019 11:35 PM by gotwqqd
eclipse2k wrote: ↑
Mon 16 Sep 2019 11:30 PM
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sat 14 Sep 2019 2:34 PM
2) Increase the con hp multiplier as champion levels did, something between cl 10 and 15 could work
3) Add con and hp overcap + fill gems (ie +8 con cap and +8 con in one) that can be bought for feathers / bp and added to existing accessory items
4) Increase PD and AoM to 39% at tier 9
5) Decrease WP and MoP to 25% at tier 9 and maybe add +1% (or scaling and ending at ~15% at tier 9) per tier to the minimum crit damage %

I don't get why you would want to do any of those changes. Currently, the "low" HP of character correspond to the low damage that characters do, the survivability is comparable to pre-ToA live, and I really think that balance would be screwed up by giving players larger HP pools without increasing damage. This would hugely buff classes like Paladins, and Friars, as a side note, but mostly just draw out fights, meaning more adds. And meaning those poor nukers run out of mana even more.
Honestly, have some compassion for my theurgist, that poor fella is always oom already!
And the WP / MoP nerf on top? Why even? I just can't even imagine what might have prompted this. Bad idea, IMHO.

And why not simply add equivalent hp to the classes instead of this workaround?
Mon 16 Sep 2019 11:43 PM by Saint
+1 to all the mentions of how far this server has strayed from the classic experience. We came back for SI + OF goodness, the RVR was great! Then slowly it became more about RVE and bashing on keeps all day, then NF was brought in making things more like live and more RVE and split the server into two with lots of people leaving. My vote would be to revert back to how things were at the start.
Tue 17 Sep 2019 12:39 AM by gotwqqd
Saint wrote: ↑
Mon 16 Sep 2019 11:43 PM
+1 to all the mentions of how far this server has strayed from the classic experience. We came back for SI + OF goodness, the RVR was great! Then slowly it became more about RVE and bashing on keeps all day, then NF was brought in making things more like live and more RVE and split the server into two with lots of people leaving. My vote would be to revert back to how things were at the start.
The NF was brought in to eliminate all the update issues.
And while I like OF better I feel the change is correct/justified.
Tue 17 Sep 2019 1:08 AM by eclipse2k
gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Mon 16 Sep 2019 11:35 PM
eclipse2k wrote: ↑
Mon 16 Sep 2019 11:30 PM
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sat 14 Sep 2019 2:34 PM
2) Increase the con hp multiplier as champion levels did, something between cl 10 and 15 could work
3) Add con and hp overcap + fill gems (ie +8 con cap and +8 con in one) that can be bought for feathers / bp and added to existing accessory items
4) Increase PD and AoM to 39% at tier 9
5) Decrease WP and MoP to 25% at tier 9 and maybe add +1% (or scaling and ending at ~15% at tier 9) per tier to the minimum crit damage %

I don't get why you would want to do any of those changes. Currently, the "low" HP of character correspond to the low damage that characters do, the survivability is comparable to pre-ToA live, and I really think that balance would be screwed up by giving players larger HP pools without increasing damage. This would hugely buff classes like Paladins, and Friars, as a side note, but mostly just draw out fights, meaning more adds. And meaning those poor nukers run out of mana even more.
Honestly, have some compassion for my theurgist, that poor fella is always oom already!
And the WP / MoP nerf on top? Why even? I just can't even imagine what might have prompted this. Bad idea, IMHO.

And why not simply add equipment hp to the classes instead of this workaround?

I was honestly just making the point of not adding any HP to anyone.
Tue 17 Sep 2019 8:26 AM by Kemoauc
I feel that all the proposed changes will have a major impact on the game. Especially, the RR5 RAs will be very hard to balance properly and I'm not sure it is a good idea to add them.

Adding a bit of con sounds very ineffective to me. I don't think 100 HP will help if you get debuffed to negative resists and hit by 1-2 casters.

What about changing Determination and Stoicism to affect all sorts of debuffs including resist debuffs in addition to cc?
It would boost melee survivability, would still allow organised castergrps to drop other targets reliably and would have low impact on other parts of the game such as soloers.
Tue 17 Sep 2019 8:33 AM by Kaziera
Kemoauc wrote: ↑
Tue 17 Sep 2019 8:26 AM
I feel that all the proposed changes will have a major impact on the game. Especially, the RR5 RAs will be very hard to balance properly and I'm not sure it is a good idea to add them.

Adding a bit of con sounds very ineffective to me. I don't think 100 HP will help if you get debuffed to negative resists and hit by 1-2 casters.

What about changing Determination and Stoicism to affect all sorts of debuffs including resist debuffs in addition to cc?
It would boost melee survivability, would still allow organised castergrps to drop other targets reliably and would have low impact on other parts of the game such as soloers.

Well i was thinking more like 400 hp on a tank.
Tue 17 Sep 2019 8:38 AM by FUINY7
So the server was a gigantic beta test in the end ?
Tue 17 Sep 2019 8:42 AM by Kaziera
So the game versions and patches on live or other shards or even other games never changed?

Newsflash, its always work in progress.
Tue 17 Sep 2019 11:07 AM by Kemoauc
Kaziera wrote: ↑
Tue 17 Sep 2019 8:33 AM
Kemoauc wrote: ↑
Tue 17 Sep 2019 8:26 AM
I feel that all the proposed changes will have a major impact on the game. Especially, the RR5 RAs will be very hard to balance properly and I'm not sure it is a good idea to add them.

Adding a bit of con sounds very ineffective to me. I don't think 100 HP will help if you get debuffed to negative resists and hit by 1-2 casters.

What about changing Determination and Stoicism to affect all sorts of debuffs including resist debuffs in addition to cc?
It would boost melee survivability, would still allow organised castergrps to drop other targets reliably and would have low impact on other parts of the game such as soloers.

Well i was thinking more like 400 hp on a tank.

I was not replying to you specifically but to the opening post in general.

Just giving hp to everyone will just create other balancing problems . I don't think we should increase time to kill by just making hp pools larger but by reducing the dmg of debuff trains so that there is slightly more time to rupt them. One way could be to lower the debuffs values in general another one to reduce the duration. If you add it to determination it would only affect melee and people would have to spend points on it which sounds fair.
Tue 17 Sep 2019 11:50 AM by Kaziera
Well i guess we agree on the core problem, but disagree on which screw to turn.
Tue 17 Sep 2019 12:35 PM by BashPi
Repair changes sounds good.
Thats all.
Tue 17 Sep 2019 2:22 PM by gotwqqd
If the issue is caster burning down why raise hits on everyone or even melee only ? Then they have greater chance vs everyone ...not the problem.
Give the classes you feel who need to be protected from this x% base all magic resist
Tue 17 Sep 2019 2:26 PM by chryso
The thing i find kind of confusing is that you would be raising hits on one hand but adding buff shears on the other hand. The buff shears will just remove the hits you were trying to raise.
Tue 17 Sep 2019 3:23 PM by Kaziera
Maybe because all those changes are just a Collection of possible single changes and not to be seen as a pack of changes?
Tue 17 Sep 2019 4:42 PM by Frigzy
Solo casters (BDs don't count) got nerfed into the ground by the buff charge removal. Any further nonsense such as more hp or even RR5 is going to worsen that situation even further.

In fact I suggest reinstating the buff charges values but limit their use to max one active at a time.

As for the tank/caster balance I would suggest adding a purge effect at the start of the currently near useless Charge ability (or perhaps a 3 second cc immunity window instead) . No need for an additional speed increase. Perhaps lower their Slam stun timer if they have access to it to 6 seconds.
Tue 17 Sep 2019 5:33 PM by cocio_dk
pls no, keep it as classic as possoble,. NF was change enough. adding more hp will just prolong fights.

archers changes seems fine, and repair change fine,

eithr buff PD and AoM OR nerf MoP and WP NOT BOTH
Tue 17 Sep 2019 5:43 PM by chryso
cocio_dk wrote: ↑
Tue 17 Sep 2019 5:33 PM
adding more hp will just prolong fights.

Ok, now this I just don't understand.
The point of rvr is fights. Fights are what everyone wants when they go out in the frontier.
With this in mind the idea of prolonging fights makes sense. You take the part of the game that everyone likes and you make more of it.
This idea is like the viagra of rvr. It sounds logical.
Tue 17 Sep 2019 6:09 PM by inoeth
even though i think rr5 RAS were great, i really think it would make some classes really powerfull. look at hunter rr5 for example 40% haste 15% dmg desease proc... insane! even though i play hunter, it would just be too much imo.

Scouts do not need a change, they only have to choose the right spec .... ppl need to learn 50 bow is no adequate spec for scouts!

more HP for everyone? how would that help anyone?

plz do not introduce more item decay, item decay is one of the stupidest thing ever done to daoc.
Tue 17 Sep 2019 6:28 PM by Cadebrennus
Kaziera wrote: ↑
Tue 17 Sep 2019 8:42 AM
So the game versions and patches on live or other shards or even other games never changed?

Newsflash, its always work in progress.

A good artist knows when to walk away from the canvas.
Tue 17 Sep 2019 6:48 PM by Makrist
inoeth wrote: ↑
Tue 17 Sep 2019 6:09 PM
even though i think rr5 RAS were great, i really think it would make some classes really powerfull. look at hunter rr5 for example 40% haste 15% dmg desease proc... insane! even though i play hunter, it would just be too much imo.

Scouts do not need a change, they only have to choose the right spec .... ppl need to learn 50 bow is no adequate spec for scouts!

more HP for everyone? how would that help anyone?

plz do not introduce more item decay, item decay is one of the stupidest thing ever done to daoc.

My survivability when uncovered (not if...when) is garbage against melee focused toons like...well...everyone other than casters and healers. My fully templated and buffed scout hits for a max 80 with Amy slash with a slow delay weapon at 39 slash (composite 54) or 100 Amy slash with 50 slash. Hunter pets (blue con) regularly hit me for 65-75. Not to worry though. The Hunter says Scouts are all good.
Tue 17 Sep 2019 6:49 PM by Boltman
Item decay would be far worse on this server than on live or other shards because of the nature of ROG's. If we had named items or the ability to attain the same item with the same stats then I would be ok with it, but as it is now you template around the best ROG's you can find and pray that they don't break or you have to fully re-template again.

I thought the thinking behind all of the additions you have done was to eliminate the grind to redo a template over and over again with better items, yet still add custom content. This change would fly in the face of that thought pattern completely.
Tue 17 Sep 2019 6:54 PM by chryso
Boltman wrote: ↑
Tue 17 Sep 2019 6:49 PM
Item decay would be far worse on this server than on live or other shards because of the nature of ROG's. If we had named items or the ability to attain the same item with the same stats then I would be ok with it, but as it is now you template around the best ROG's you can find and pray that they don't break or you have to fully re-template again.

I thought the thinking behind all of the additions you have done was to eliminate the grind to redo a template over and over again with better items, yet still add custom content. This change would fly in the face of that thought pattern completely.

https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?p=85206#p85206
Tue 17 Sep 2019 6:58 PM by Makrist
Boltman wrote: ↑
Tue 17 Sep 2019 6:49 PM
Item decay would be far worse on this server than on live or other shards because of the nature of ROG's. If we had named items or the ability to attain the same item with the same stats then I would be ok with it, but as it is now you template around the best ROG's you can find and pray that they don't break or you have to fully re-template again.

I thought the thinking behind all of the additions you have done was to eliminate the grind to redo a template over and over again with better items, yet still add custom content. This change would fly in the face of that thought pattern completely.
Condition is repaired at the expense of durability. They stated the proposal was to create a method to repair durability as well. Basically you repair with gold to fix condition and then eventually you repair durability through their new process.
Tue 17 Sep 2019 7:09 PM by Ardri
I will preface my response with this: A stale DAoC server that never changes is 100 times worse than one that changes and tries to satisfy the players. Que the Uthgard vs Phoenix comparison. The Phoenix dev team really have done an amazing job with the server. The population was always going to decrease with time and then "die" again with classic WoW. We're playing a 20 year old mmo that has to compete with this WoW relaunch and thousands of other games. What more can you reasonably expect. That being said, he's my feedback on the thread.

1) RR5s: Yes please. More toys, more outplay potential, more fun.
2) Con/HP increases: Sure, why not. More ttk = more outplay potential again.
3) PD and AoM from 20% to 39%: Wayyy too much when coupled with #2 above. BDs and Heavy tanks would be near unstoppable. 25-30% is more reasonable.
4) Decrease WP and MoP: Yes, been needed for a long time. Again, 30% imo.

Archery changes 1-3 are needed. Especially with more con/hp and defensive RR5s. Self bt is incredibly strong vs archers and needed the change long ago.
Random scout change: Just no. They have anytime hard slam plus minstrels, nothing else is needed. It's just the majority of them really are terrible scouts.

Repair/Dura system: Really does not matter at all. People will always have gear that is viable and all this does is add an annoyance. A waste of time/coding imo.

Buff Shearing: Big no from me. Affects gameplay too much and is seen in the same light as ToA/MLs. It also negatively affects solo/small man in a big way.
Tue 17 Sep 2019 7:58 PM by cuuchulain79
Ardri, comparisons to Uthgard are really dumb. DAoC deserves a good, long standing freeshard. I don't understand why validating constant change b/c it's failing just as quickly as Uthgard makes any sense. And this time bomb of vanilla WoW is dumb too. People that want to play WoW have had a plethora of freeshards to choose from for years. Phoenix doesn't need to make all sorts of attempts to keep WoW fans happy...

Basically I wish Phoenix modelled their server after successful MMO shards, instead of accepting the same population loss as an unsuccessful shard. Believe or not, somewhere between Uth2 and Phoenix there is the foundation for a great DAoC server.

DAoC is almost 20 years old, true. But it certainly has enough fans to populate a nice server...I just happen to think that server hasn't come yet.

TLDR: Failing at the same rate as Uth2 isn't something to be happy with. Model a server based on a successful server. And screw WoW...if a DAoC shard is EZ enough for WoW fans, some things wrong anyway.
Tue 17 Sep 2019 8:11 PM by Makrist
Ok..so far my favorite post is scouts need nothing because....

They have anytime hard slam plus minstrels
Tue 17 Sep 2019 8:20 PM by cuuchulain79
Kaziera wrote: ↑
Tue 17 Sep 2019 8:42 AM
So the game versions and patches on live or other shards or even other games never changed?

Newsflash, its always work in progress.

Newsflash: successful MMO shards do focus on a target era, and build their core base from there. Progression servers also exist, with a road map, and players know (and look forward to) what to expect & when.
Tue 17 Sep 2019 9:04 PM by gotwqqd
inoeth wrote: ↑
Tue 17 Sep 2019 6:09 PM
even though i think rr5 RAS were great, i really think it would make some classes really powerfull. look at hunter rr5 for example 40% haste 15% dmg desease proc... insane! even though i play hunter, it would just be too much imo.

Scouts do not need a change, they only have to choose the right spec .... ppl need to learn 50 bow is no adequate spec for scouts!

more HP for everyone? how would that help anyone?

plz do not introduce more item decay, item decay is one of the stupidest thing ever done to daoc.
That’s the whole point
50 bow spec is pointless!
Tue 17 Sep 2019 9:15 PM by Cadebrennus
If you're going to give something to high Bow spec Archers then give them something, they need it. But don't take anything away from hybrid Archers. That will just piss off the majority of Archer players.
Tue 17 Sep 2019 9:28 PM by Prometheus
Boltman wrote: ↑
Tue 17 Sep 2019 6:49 PM
Item decay would be far worse on this server than on live or other shards because of the nature of ROG's. If we had named items or the ability to attain the same item with the same stats then I would be ok with it, but as it is now you template around the best ROG's you can find and pray that they don't break or you have to fully re-template again.

I thought the thinking behind all of the additions you have done was to eliminate the grind to redo a template over and over again with better items, yet still add custom content. This change would fly in the face of that thought pattern completely.

Worry not, they would also add a way to restore item durability so you could use your gear indefinitely
Tue 17 Sep 2019 9:38 PM by gruenesschaf
cuuchulain79 wrote: ↑
Tue 17 Sep 2019 7:58 PM
Basically I wish Phoenix modelled their server after successful MMO shards, instead of accepting the same population loss as an unsuccessful shard. Believe or not, somewhere between Uth2 and Phoenix there is the foundation for a great DAoC server.

Before we set out to making this server, we were also convinced that there doesn't have to be such a population loss if the biggest complaints of uthgard were fixed aka xp rate and qol, some balance adjustments (hybrid det, adjusting high impact ras like sos, group purge and stuff like making wiz somewhat viable etc.) and having something that the masses can progress with and then adjusting things as time goes on / reactions to the meta development instead of being a museum while also providing some pve content as well as making pve items achievable over time without depending entirely on luck.

However, now I would go so far as to guarantee you that it doesn't matter what setting this server has and whether it's no changes, lots of changes or some changes, as long as there isn't some drama / controversy it will have an almost identical population loss starting after ~3 - 4 months that will end with daily peaks somewhere around the 1k mark until something else comes up / something drastic is done. The only difference between no changes and changes will be that the former will have an accelerating general loss while the other will have a slightly lower acceleration rate for the general loss but with some spikes as no matter what change is done some will be unhappy. A progression server would be a bit different as you would most likely see noticeable bumps whenever new expansion content is launched with the danger of a particular expansion being rather hated, even with adjustments that would make the pve not as forced, due to general bias against whatever people perceive said expansion to be it would most likely be a net loss in the end still.
And, in case it starts with OF and if it gets lots of traction on launch, it will also suddenly stop providing client files and then either somehow enable player based client file sharing or also change to current live files with either the somewhat broken OF or current live NF, maybe more things if it eats into EC (assuming it ever comes).

See similar results for what I'm talking about for EQ shards:
https://unixgeek.com/eqemu.html
Tue 17 Sep 2019 9:59 PM by Taniquetil
Well yes i'll admit I was unaware of the newer RR5 abilitiies given the Live website's lack of updates. Still the new RR5's sound even wilder. I'd say all these changes still arent exactly great this time around.

Can't comment on the repair costs thing, should be fine though.

Imo a much more important issue to resolve is keephugging, its rewarded too heavily to suicide at the task keep, or lurk at the task keep/ home keep (Beno, Bled, Crauch) to vulture a lowbie kill, meaning there are even guild names thatt are set up admitting to that as a playstyle. A solution to that is much moore important than these changes at least imo. Whole realm map available and unused except for areas around the 3 main keeps or with the zergs.

Bring roaming benefits again kinda like u tried with cap the flag or task caravan things, maybe not likke that, but possibly similar to what i understood live did with encouraging roaming to certain areas to find gems etc under rocks for rp, to reward roaming or tactical area domination, u can force action to certain areas but still keep it wide open. and pull people away from keeps at the same time by offering an incentive. Currently the incentive actually means suiciding on a keep or hugging the keeps and vulturing is a profitable playstyle.... not ideal from a long term PoV
Wed 18 Sep 2019 1:40 AM by cuuchulain79
Museum? You saw an enormously successful launch for a 'classic w/ qol' server...I think a certain element of predictability regarding meta was expected. Strict 1.65 felt like a museum...Phoenix at launch felt like a more accessible, balanced...museum (it's a 20 year old game...we're all dinosaurs and sort of belong in a museum!)

DAoC is a museum...I had level 50s before I ever sent a 'text.'

Trying to constantly do these massive meta-changing updates...will just leave you chasing your tail as those changes require more changes, which then require more changes, requiring a few more changes, which unbalanced a few aspects of 50 parry spec wardens and more changes need to happen, leaving the matter sorc desperately overpowered so change DoT mechanics, change back to Old RA to balance again, unforseen things happen needing a tweak to whip of encouragement so change key mechanics, change a few things to balance light chanters, up value of AoM, go back to new RA, last player in game is matter sorc beating a warden and forcing a rage quit.
Wed 18 Sep 2019 5:06 AM by Muse
Remove the stupid realm timer a change we Need Here
Wed 18 Sep 2019 6:37 AM by Raunz
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Tue 17 Sep 2019 9:38 PM
cuuchulain79 wrote: ↑
Tue 17 Sep 2019 7:58 PM
Basically I wish Phoenix modelled their server after successful MMO shards, instead of accepting the same population loss as an unsuccessful shard. Believe or not, somewhere between Uth2 and Phoenix there is the foundation for a great DAoC server.

Before we set out to making this server, we were also convinced that there doesn't have to be such a population loss if the biggest complaints of uthgard were fixed aka xp rate and qol, some balance adjustments (hybrid det, adjusting high impact ras like sos, group purge and stuff like making wiz somewhat viable etc.) and having something that the masses can progress with and then adjusting things as time goes on / reactions to the meta development instead of being a museum while also providing some pve content as well as making pve items achievable over time without depending entirely on luck.

However, now I would go so far as to guarantee you that it doesn't matter what setting this server has and whether it's no changes, lots of changes or some changes, as long as there isn't some drama / controversy it will have an almost identical population loss starting after ~3 - 4 months that will end with daily peaks somewhere around the 1k mark until something else comes up / something drastic is done. The only difference between no changes and changes will be that the former will have an accelerating general loss while the other will have a slightly lower acceleration rate for the general loss but with some spikes as no matter what change is done some will be unhappy. A progression server would be a bit different as you would most likely see noticeable bumps whenever new expansion content is launched with the danger of a particular expansion being rather hated, even with adjustments that would make the pve not as forced, due to general bias against whatever people perceive said expansion to be it would most likely be a net loss in the end still.
And, in case it starts with OF and if it gets lots of traction on launch, it will also suddenly stop providing client files and then either somehow enable player based client file sharing or also change to current live files with either the somewhat broken OF or current live NF, maybe more things if it eats into EC (assuming it ever comes).

See similar results for what I'm talking about for EQ shards:
https://unixgeek.com/eqemu.html

Even if you reset the ranks every 3 months it would be good for the server health long term and remove all the crap like realm timer etc .

Also having a minigame zone for 5vs5 4vs4 like the beta version of the PvP event was super fun, people could login smash few runs real quick and go bang gf or bf in some of your case.

Here is example also what makes people quit from Uthgard, it took so long to make a new character that when you got bored of your first or 2nd one then you just stopped playing or for whatever reason you had your m8s stop playing but you still small manned with some dudes but wanted to play in a pug/rep on another realm but couldn't as there was a terrible realm timer.

Also Unban people jeez...
Wed 18 Sep 2019 8:28 AM by inoeth
gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Tue 17 Sep 2019 9:04 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Tue 17 Sep 2019 6:09 PM
even though i think rr5 RAS were great, i really think it would make some classes really powerfull. look at hunter rr5 for example 40% haste 15% dmg desease proc... insane! even though i play hunter, it would just be too much imo.

Scouts do not need a change, they only have to choose the right spec .... ppl need to learn 50 bow is no adequate spec for scouts!

more HP for everyone? how would that help anyone?

plz do not introduce more item decay, item decay is one of the stupidest thing ever done to daoc.
That’s the whole point
50 bow spec is pointless!

because 27 is enough, so what? more points for important stuff... i dont get why ppl want to skill 50 bow so hard
Wed 18 Sep 2019 8:29 AM by inoeth
Makrist wrote: ↑
Tue 17 Sep 2019 6:48 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Tue 17 Sep 2019 6:09 PM
even though i think rr5 RAS were great, i really think it would make some classes really powerfull. look at hunter rr5 for example 40% haste 15% dmg desease proc... insane! even though i play hunter, it would just be too much imo.

Scouts do not need a change, they only have to choose the right spec .... ppl need to learn 50 bow is no adequate spec for scouts!

more HP for everyone? how would that help anyone?

plz do not introduce more item decay, item decay is one of the stupidest thing ever done to daoc.

My survivability when uncovered (not if...when) is garbage against melee focused toons like...well...everyone other than casters and healers. My fully templated and buffed scout hits for a max 80 with Amy slash with a slow delay weapon at 39 slash (composite 54) or 100 Amy slash with 50 slash. Hunter pets (blue con) regularly hit me for 65-75. Not to worry though. The Hunter says Scouts are all good.

ask skairipa how to spec scout, he kills me most every time
Wed 18 Sep 2019 8:55 AM by gotwqqd
inoeth wrote: ↑
Wed 18 Sep 2019 8:28 AM
gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Tue 17 Sep 2019 9:04 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Tue 17 Sep 2019 6:09 PM
even though i think rr5 RAS were great, i really think it would make some classes really powerfull. look at hunter rr5 for example 40% haste 15% dmg desease proc... insane! even though i play hunter, it would just be too much imo.

Scouts do not need a change, they only have to choose the right spec .... ppl need to learn 50 bow is no adequate spec for scouts!

more HP for everyone? how would that help anyone?

plz do not introduce more item decay, item decay is one of the stupidest thing ever done to daoc.
That’s the whole point
50 bow spec is pointless!

because 27 is enough, so what? more points for important stuff... i dont get why ppl want to skill 50 bow so hard

Exactly...you don’t get it
Wed 18 Sep 2019 10:22 AM by inoeth
gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Wed 18 Sep 2019 8:55 AM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Wed 18 Sep 2019 8:28 AM
gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Tue 17 Sep 2019 9:04 PM
That’s the whole point
50 bow spec is pointless!

because 27 is enough, so what? more points for important stuff... i dont get why ppl want to skill 50 bow so hard

Exactly...you don’t get it

then keep on gimp yourself lol... kill ya on the battlefield
Wed 18 Sep 2019 11:13 AM by gotwqqd
inoeth wrote: ↑
Wed 18 Sep 2019 10:22 AM
gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Wed 18 Sep 2019 8:55 AM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Wed 18 Sep 2019 8:28 AM
because 27 is enough, so what? more points for important stuff... i dont get why ppl want to skill 50 bow so hard

Exactly...you don’t get it

then keep on gimp yourself lol... kill ya on the battlefield
????
This is talk about making it viable to go to 50 in bow
Nothing to do with specking now
Wed 18 Sep 2019 11:48 AM by Forlornhope
Worry not, they would also add a way to restore item durability so you could use your gear indefinitely
[/quote]

Most people do understand that they will be adding a way to repair durability.. What we don't understand is why they don't just get rid of the loss altogether rather than making us spend more feathers/gold on something like this. It makes no sense, if they're willing to let us repair durability they should just take the loss out altogether. I don't really want to worry about it at all, or have to go farm feathers if it's ridiculously expensive.
Wed 18 Sep 2019 12:32 PM by Makrist
inoeth wrote: ↑
Wed 18 Sep 2019 8:29 AM
Makrist wrote: ↑
Tue 17 Sep 2019 6:48 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Tue 17 Sep 2019 6:09 PM
even though i think rr5 RAS were great, i really think it would make some classes really powerfull. look at hunter rr5 for example 40% haste 15% dmg desease proc... insane! even though i play hunter, it would just be too much imo.

Scouts do not need a change, they only have to choose the right spec .... ppl need to learn 50 bow is no adequate spec for scouts!

more HP for everyone? how would that help anyone?

plz do not introduce more item decay, item decay is one of the stupidest thing ever done to daoc.

My survivability when uncovered (not if...when) is garbage against melee focused toons like...well...everyone other than casters and healers. My fully templated and buffed scout hits for a max 80 with Amy slash with a slow delay weapon at 39 slash (composite 54) or 100 Amy slash with 50 slash. Hunter pets (blue con) regularly hit me for 65-75. Not to worry though. The Hunter says Scouts are all good.

ask skairipa how to spec scout, he kills me most every time
I have. Its interesting to me that your justification that scouts (the Albion archery class) dont need a change is that if we wait long enough to get post RR9 we can spec like an armsman and kill things. Solid logic.
Wed 18 Sep 2019 2:55 PM by Ardri
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Tue 17 Sep 2019 9:38 PM
A progression server would be a bit different as you would most likely see noticeable bumps whenever new expansion content is launched with the danger of a particular expansion being rather hated, even with adjustments that would make the pve not as forced, due to general bias against whatever people perceive said expansion to be it would most likely be a net loss in the end still.
https://unixgeek.com/eqemu.html

99% of games have a decrease in population over time and "die" no matter what. It's just a matter of how fast it happens and what you do to slow it.

I would argue if you guys announced certain big patches/expansion/progression ideas say 1 month in advance, let the hype build, do some advertising campaign of sorts, send mass email to database of players, you would easily see a real bump/rejuvenation of the playerbase. That will give you real growth that you notice when you play the game. Yea, it will die down, but that's what happens to old MMOs. The only way you get launch type numbers again is to relaunch, which i also don't think would be a bad idea to do every 2+ years. A lot happens in that time frame.

Ever play the game Rust? The 1 week server cycle is like clockwork in that game. Huge population with everyone excited for a fresh start, people play a ton and progress, get to the end game, then servers die off after day 3/4. It's just a compressed microcosm of an MMO launch.
Wed 18 Sep 2019 3:01 PM by Ardri
Ardri wrote: ↑
Wed 18 Sep 2019 2:55 PM
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Tue 17 Sep 2019 9:38 PM
A progression server would be a bit different as you would most likely see noticeable bumps whenever new expansion content is launched with the danger of a particular expansion being rather hated, even with adjustments that would make the pve not as forced, due to general bias against whatever people perceive said expansion to be it would most likely be a net loss in the end still.
https://unixgeek.com/eqemu.html

99% of games have a decrease in population over time and "die" no matter what. It's just a matter of how fast it happens and what you do to slow it.

I would argue if you guys announced certain big patches/expansion/progression ideas say 1 month in advance, let the hype build, do some advertising campaign of sorts, send mass email to database of players, you would easily see a real bump/rejuvenation of the playerbase. That will give you real growth that you notice when you play the game. Yea, it will die down, but that's what happens to old MMOs. The only way you get launch type numbers again is to relaunch, which i also don't think would be a bad idea to do every 2+ years. A lot happens in that time frame.

Ever play the game Rust? The 1 week server cycle is like clockwork in that game. Huge population with everyone excited for a fresh start, people play a ton and progress, get to the end game, then servers die off after day 3/4. It's just a compressed microcosm of an MMO launch.

To add to this, you could easily do a promotion campaign for the 1 year anniversary of Phoenix to attract players. Change realm timer to 4hrs, unban only the people who violated the realm swap timer, have some crazy pve bonus for a week, a PvP event zone for a week, along with whatever big patch you want. BOOM. Instant revitalization of the server. All you have to do is announce it 1+ month in advance and do the proper advertising.
Wed 18 Sep 2019 3:01 PM by cuuchulain79
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Tue 17 Sep 2019 9:38 PM
...However, now I would go so far as to guarantee you that it doesn't matter what setting this server has and whether it's no changes, lots of changes or some changes, as long as there isn't some drama / controversy it will have an almost identical population loss starting after ~3 - 4 months that will end with daily peaks somewhere around the 1k mark until something else comes up / something drastic is done. The only difference between no changes and changes will be that the former will have an accelerating general loss while the other will have a slightly lower acceleration rate for the general loss but with some spikes as no matter what change is done some will be unhappy....

I think that's an incredibly simplified perspective. Frankly it sounds pretty ignorant to "guarantee" that DAoC can't retain more than a ~1k peak for a prolonged period. All you can really say with any certainty is that over 9 months of data, Phoenix has the same retention as a strict 1.65 server. Phoenix also needs to not lose any more than 15% pop in the next nine months before grue can even begin to quantify those bold claims.

Custom servers always have a smaller pool of players that cycle in and out. Frequent massive changes to things make picking the game back up harder (especially when these players originally came here for "classic w/ qol".

Every successful shard in this genre has a clear goal. Now nine months after launch....Phoenix still has no clear goal except to continue to make changes as the meta develops. This is IMO absurd. First of all, why not have a real goal? Second...it's a 20 year old game, why be so afraid of a meta?

Was the foundation for this server really to just answer complaints from Uth2 forums? Is answering forum complaints really how the server will develop?

Oh wait...vollery nerf inc, after epic volley forum QQ...answered my own question
Wed 18 Sep 2019 3:25 PM by Makrist
cuuchulain79 wrote: ↑
Wed 18 Sep 2019 3:01 PM
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Tue 17 Sep 2019 9:38 PM
...However, now I would go so far as to guarantee you that it doesn't matter what setting this server has and whether it's no changes, lots of changes or some changes, as long as there isn't some drama / controversy it will have an almost identical population loss starting after ~3 - 4 months that will end with daily peaks somewhere around the 1k mark until something else comes up / something drastic is done. The only difference between no changes and changes will be that the former will have an accelerating general loss while the other will have a slightly lower acceleration rate for the general loss but with some spikes as no matter what change is done some will be unhappy....

I think that's an incredibly simplified perspective. Frankly it sounds pretty ignorant to "guarantee" that DAoC can't retain more than a ~1k peak for a prolonged period. All you can really say with any certainty is that over 9 months of data, Phoenix has the same retention as a strict 1.65 server. Phoenix also needs to not lose any more than 15% pop in the next nine months before grue can even begin to quantify those bold claims.

Custom servers always have a smaller pool of players that cycle in and out. Frequent massive changes to things make picking the game back up harder (especially when these players originally came here for "classic w/ qol".

Every successful shard in this genre has a clear goal. Now nine months after launch....Phoenix still has no clear goal except to continue to make changes as the meta develops. This is IMO absurd. First of all, why not have a real goal? Second...it's a 20 year old game, why be so afraid of a meta?

Was the foundation for this server really to just answer complaints from Uth2 forums? Is answering forum complaints really how the server will develop?

Oh wait...vollery nerf inc, after epic volley forum QQ...answered my own question

It took about two months give or take to realize there is zero balance to the population which in my opinion is heavily effected by an illogical 12 hour realm timer. This with the fact that most changes seem to be chosen by throwing a dart blindfolded at a list of live characteristics. Assassin boost through WS debuff change...totally...archery changes to make it viable...well..maybe. volley nerf...absolutely. Oh, and instead of addressing player concerns like burdensome realm timers and bugs RR5 ABILITIES FOR EVERYONE! Its like a bad Oprah episode where you find dog crap under your seat instead of an iPod.

With zero direction or actual vision other than throwing the playerbase free stuff in the form of RP tasks its time to take a break. Ill pop back in probably mid October to see the state of the game. If its still 130+ mids living in Albion with 40 defenders im not concerned. P99 releases the green server on Oct 25th. I have other options for my time.
Wed 18 Sep 2019 6:45 PM by Vkejai
Is there a list of the RR5 abilities which Phoenix are planning to use I can view please ?
Wed 18 Sep 2019 8:25 PM by gotwqqd
Implement realm queue.
You join it’s locked in.
But it allows you to play seamlessly for the 12 hour wait.

So if you are playing realm A and get on list for Realm B, in twelve hours you are FORCED TO PLAY realm B(maybe a short 30 min grace period) and would not be able to join original realm or third realm for 12 hours min.
Thu 19 Sep 2019 1:14 AM by The Skies Asunder
I tried to read this, but I just couldn't make it through all 22 pages. I am in favor of the RR5 abilities, and buff shears, and am indifferent the increased HP. Everything else just seems unnecessary to me.

RR5 abilities - I always enjoyed them, though some classes had clearly worse abilities than others. I like the idea of picking one from your sort of archetype.

Shears - If you do implement shears at 1500 range, then concentration buffs should be increased to 1500 range also.

The people crying that this is ToA all over again are very confusing. The primary reason I see people complain about ToA is the PvE required to get all the items and abilities, none of which are present on this list. Just don't make people retemplate, because that seems to be a huge issue for many.
Thu 19 Sep 2019 3:29 AM by Lanathir
Most people planned temps around indestructable ROG jewelry as it is until now. Don't force them to retemplate if that jewelry wears down out of the sudden.
Thu 19 Sep 2019 3:32 AM by ExcretusMaximus
Lanathir wrote: ↑
Thu 19 Sep 2019 3:29 AM
Most people planned temps around indestructable ROG jewelry as it is until now. Don't force them to retemplate if that jewelry wears down out of the sudden.


Even if they introduced that change, it'd take more than 2 years for the typical player's jewelry to break completely.

Don't pretend it's that hard to retemplate every two years (or that this server will even be here in two years).
Thu 19 Sep 2019 6:25 AM by Sepplord
nowhere in the suggestion is anything mentioned that would require retemping!
i know...reading is hard, but before derailing discussions maybe doing more than the usual facebook style of skimming the text while scrolling would be appropriate.

It's in the OP and has been stated multiple times in response to people screaming "no retemping please"
Thu 19 Sep 2019 6:35 AM by borodino1812
I think if anything the pace of the changes here on Phoenix has been much too high. The devs should take it easy on further changes. It seems at times as if we move from one sweeping change to another.
Thu 19 Sep 2019 8:01 AM by Cadebrennus
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Thu 19 Sep 2019 6:25 AM
nowhere in the suggestion is anything mentioned that would require retemping!
i know...reading is hard, but before derailing discussions maybe doing more than the usual facebook style of skimming the text while scrolling would be appropriate.

It's in the OP and has been stated multiple times in response to people screaming "no retemping please"

I think the reason that people are still concerned regardless of what was originally written is because of what happened on Live. John at Broadsword said the same thing about new content (that it wouldn't require new templating - a flat out lie) and about minor class balancing (also a flat out lie, since things changed drastically with the August 2016 patch, with some changes being hidden and denied.)

Due to this I'm sure that you can understand how skittish players are here regarding changes; planned, unplanned, disclosed, or undisclosed.
Thu 19 Sep 2019 10:02 AM by Tritri
The realm timer part is thrown out a lot and not really argued back

I find it strange, I think having a realm timer that doesn't allow players to swap realm back and forth is core to a server life and I only see issues with removing it


Also, I understand that IF they go back on the realm timer, peoples that got banned for not respecting this rules should be unbanned... but really... why trying to get by this rule in the first place ... ? x)

But, I think that the GM should have just given a warning to people getting caught the first time to make them understand that "yes, we do mean it and we can see when you aren't respecting it"


Anyway, I hate the idea that people could swap realm on the fly during prime time in RvR


Maybe it would be interesting to block people from realm swaping only if they went into a RvR zone ?
Thu 19 Sep 2019 12:42 PM by Cadebrennus
How about just a 6 hour or 3 hour realm timer? I think 6 is best imo. You could check your merchant or something before you go to work, then come home and then jump into a different realm for RvR.
Thu 19 Sep 2019 2:53 PM by Sepplord
I never got why people should get unbanned if the realmtimer gets changed...people get banned for breaking the rules, if the rules get changed doesn't necessarily mean breaking them earlier was fine
This isn't something substantial like people being incarcerated for fighting against human rights violation and then getting released by the next government. Circumventing the realmtimer required other rules to be broken too. Having multiple accounts for example.

To get permabanned for circumvention of the realmtimer you needed to be caught doing it, THREE times...why should people get unbanned after breaking multiple rules 3times?
Thu 19 Sep 2019 3:17 PM by Tritri
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Thu 19 Sep 2019 2:53 PM
To get permabanned for circumvention of the realmtimer you needed to be caught doing it, THREE times...why should people get unbanned after breaking multiple rules 3times?

Really ?
HAHA

I didn't know that
Yeah, asking for an unban given the circumstances is a total joke
Thu 19 Sep 2019 4:04 PM by MacPrior
I cannt see any strategy behind the offered changes.
Mythic and GOA tried to rich some thing with changes
- make fights longer? so, they improved primary resists of heavy tanks, got them a group buff, a better heal and more train ponits were given to secondary healers,
- better fight handling? - there were 2 songs running possible etc..
here I read -
Just changes in order to change something? For what?
I dont need such improvements, sry
Thu 19 Sep 2019 4:50 PM by Kaziera
MacPrior wrote: ↑
Thu 19 Sep 2019 4:04 PM
I cannt see any strategy behind the offered changes.
Mythic and GOA tried to rich some thing with changes
- make fights longer? so, they improved primary resists of heavy tanks, got them a group buff, a better heal and more train ponits were given to secondary healers,
- better fight handling? - there were 2 songs running possible etc..
here I read -
Just changes in order to change something? For what?
I dont need such improvements, sry

Read properly. Their goal is to shift away from caster meta.

Another victim of tldr
Thu 19 Sep 2019 6:30 PM by chois
well for scout i prefer see remedy ( yes i dream), or at least avoid to have a full defense in front of ( blok or evade) due to the 1handed, only us take the malus 25% against dual and 10% againts 2 handed, and we put points in shield spec and MOB, it s not free it s expensive. Fed to see sometimes evade / evade/ evade / miss ect ... in chain. Scouts just need little more survivability in open field and just a little little up in melee damage, bow is fine like it is.
Thu 19 Sep 2019 6:35 PM by opossum12
I didn't read the 24 pages of feedback as it obviously would take way too much time.

However, I don't think the changes above will change anything in regards to a caster meta. Current Live daoc has heavy tanks at 4k HPs and 30-80% secondary resists, but the meta is still the hybrid/caster train.

Buffing players by increasing health pool won't really change it.

Couple things that help tanker groups:

- NF charge
- abilities/items that increase secondary resists
- abilities that prevent debuffs
- more rupting abilties
Thu 19 Sep 2019 7:00 PM by Keelia
opossum12 wrote: ↑
Thu 19 Sep 2019 6:35 PM
I didn't read the 24 pages of feedback as it obviously would take way too much time.

However, I don't think the changes above will change anything in regards to a caster meta. Current Live daoc has heavy tanks at 4k HPs and 30-80% secondary resists, but the meta is still the hybrid/caster train.

Buffing players by increasing health pool won't really change it.

Couple things that help tanker groups:

- NF charge
- abilities/items that increase secondary resists
- abilities that prevent debuffs
- more rupting abilties

All of which are not needed here. Well played tank groups do just fine against well played caster groups. It’s the meta because you never fight just 1 group, extending multiple groups is easier than with a tank group. You catered to the zergers so you get caster meta because of it.
Thu 19 Sep 2019 7:29 PM by Roto23
Please no buff shears. My healer hates buffing at the Keeps let alone in mid fight
Thu 19 Sep 2019 7:35 PM by Cadebrennus
Keelia wrote: ↑
Thu 19 Sep 2019 7:00 PM
opossum12 wrote: ↑
Thu 19 Sep 2019 6:35 PM
I didn't read the 24 pages of feedback as it obviously would take way too much time.

However, I don't think the changes above will change anything in regards to a caster meta. Current Live daoc has heavy tanks at 4k HPs and 30-80% secondary resists, but the meta is still the hybrid/caster train.

Buffing players by increasing health pool won't really change it.

Couple things that help tanker groups:

- NF charge
- abilities/items that increase secondary resists
- abilities that prevent debuffs
- more rupting abilties

All of which are not needed here. Well played tank groups do just fine against well played caster groups. It’s the meta because you never fight just 1 group, extending multiple groups is easier than with a tank group. You catered to the zergers so you get caster meta because of it.

Agreed. What tank group players forget is that a good tank group needs good support in the form of 1-2 dedicated interrupters to prevent enemy CC and heals so that the offensive tanks can do their jobs. People are so obsessed with "the meta" that they forget details like this.
Thu 19 Sep 2019 7:43 PM by Sepplord
Keelia wrote: ↑
Thu 19 Sep 2019 7:00 PM
opossum12 wrote: ↑
Thu 19 Sep 2019 6:35 PM
I didn't read the 24 pages of feedback as it obviously would take way too much time.

However, I don't think the changes above will change anything in regards to a caster meta. Current Live daoc has heavy tanks at 4k HPs and 30-80% secondary resists, but the meta is still the hybrid/caster train.

Buffing players by increasing health pool won't really change it.

Couple things that help tanker groups:

- NF charge
- abilities/items that increase secondary resists
- abilities that prevent debuffs
- more rupting abilties

All of which are not needed here. Well played tank groups do just fine against well played caster groups. It’s the meta because you never fight just 1 group, extending multiple groups is easier than with a tank group. You catered to the zergers so you get caster meta because of it.

Not saying i agree with that statement, but assuming it to be correct...wouldn't the reasonable conclusion be to apply changes to buff tanks or nerf casters accordingly?
Why would it matter that tank-groups are fine in a 8vs8 situation if that situation never happens? Listing theoretical situations that are balanced but do not happen as reasoning to not change something sounds like a really dumb argument...no matter how i turn it
Thu 19 Sep 2019 7:59 PM by Keelia
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Thu 19 Sep 2019 7:43 PM
Keelia wrote: ↑
Thu 19 Sep 2019 7:00 PM
opossum12 wrote: ↑
Thu 19 Sep 2019 6:35 PM
I didn't read the 24 pages of feedback as it obviously would take way too much time.

However, I don't think the changes above will change anything in regards to a caster meta. Current Live daoc has heavy tanks at 4k HPs and 30-80% secondary resists, but the meta is still the hybrid/caster train.

Buffing players by increasing health pool won't really change it.

Couple things that help tanker groups:

- NF charge
- abilities/items that increase secondary resists
- abilities that prevent debuffs
- more rupting abilties

All of which are not needed here. Well played tank groups do just fine against well played caster groups. It’s the meta because you never fight just 1 group, extending multiple groups is easier than with a tank group. You catered to the zergers so you get caster meta because of it.

Not saying i agree with that statement, but assuming it to be correct...wouldn't the reasonable conclusion be to apply changes to buff tanks or nerf casters accordingly?
Why would it matter that tank-groups are fine in a 8vs8 situation if that situation never happens? Listing theoretical situations that are balanced but do not happen as reasoning to not change something sounds like a really dumb argument...no matter how i turn it

I was more so leaning towards the idea that it’s not the individual classes tank/caster that need to be fixed, it’s the issue that it’s more beneficial to Zerg than it is to 8v8. Take last night for instance. Apparently there were 3 mid groups all listed in the GvG as wanting to 8 man, but instead they were all roaming together zerging down those 8 mans who actually wanted to 8 man.

So the purpose of the /GvG was used to the advantage of the thing it’s suppoosed to discourage. That’s an issue that needs to be addressed.
Thu 19 Sep 2019 8:01 PM by Sepplord
Keelia wrote: ↑
Thu 19 Sep 2019 7:59 PM
I was more so leaning towards the idea that it’s not the individual classes tank/caster that need to be fixed, it’s the issue that it’s more beneficial to Zerg than it is to 8v8. Take last night for instance. Apparently there were 3 mid groups all listed in the GvG as wanting to 8 man, but instead they were all roaming together zerging down those 8 mans who actually wanted to 8 man.

So the purpose of the /GvG was used to the advantage of the thing it’s suppoosed to discourage. That’s an issue that needs to be addressed.

i fail to see what the abuse of the GvG-command has to do with the balance discussion of zerging and the preferred classes in zergs?
i agree that listing yourself for GvG and then running together with other groups is very scummy but i don't think it is ontopic here
Thu 19 Sep 2019 10:16 PM by eclipse2k
Casters are the prime meta on Phoenix not because they're OP and need to be nerfed (or because tanks need to be buffed) but because the server is incredibly zergy, and 8man groups need to keep their fights as short as humanly possible to minimize the chance of getting added to death. HP increase will just make debufftrains marginally worse, people still won't switch to tank groups because long fights draw like a gazillion stealthers and two adding FGs on average on here.
Fri 20 Sep 2019 2:24 AM by Isavyr
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Thu 19 Sep 2019 7:43 PM
Keelia wrote: ↑
Thu 19 Sep 2019 7:00 PM
Well played tank groups do just fine against well played caster groups. It’s the meta because you never fight just 1 group

Not saying i agree with that statement, but assuming it to be correct...wouldn't the reasonable conclusion be to apply changes to buff tanks or nerf casters accordingly?
Why would it matter that tank-groups are fine in a 8vs8 situation if that situation never happens? Listing theoretical situations that are balanced but do not happen as reasoning to not change something sounds like a really dumb argument...no matter how i turn it

Even if that statement were true, rebalancing all classes seems the worst way to go. Instead, the battlefield should be designed to give strengths to each role. Already, I think this is largely the case. For example, keeps were historically caster-dominated but have a lot of relevant niches for for tanks here. However, it could go a step further and have more anti-zerg measures, which would benefit all group sizes and group setups.

Anyway, you can't accomplish reducing caster's offensive power without breaking what it means to be classic.
Fri 20 Sep 2019 8:52 AM by Chaskha
Lets be honest, people crying for balance and nerfs and boosts, they just want one thing: win all the time ... being solo or with their small man or 8v8.
And the people in the zerg will you ask? Well, they zerg in hope to diminish their number of release too ...

A full group is the base of DAoC and even if I'm more often in the zerg, I do believe most balancing should happen around a theoretical 8v8v8.
Just realize how hard it is?

Anyway @staff, instead of going through heavy changes all the time, continue with the events and instances. Maybe do a PvP instance like in the modern games for when the pop is low or whatever condition that would fit (to avoid emptying big boys RvR) ? I really fear constant modifications will peel layers of players one at a time and we'll end up with a miniature onion tho :s
Fri 20 Sep 2019 9:54 AM by Killaloth
I don't mind these changes. Zergs will keep on zerging,

8man will have to avoid them even more as zergs will get tougher. Perhaps the changes that make zerg tougher are not needed but whatever.

Perhaps start gradually by introducing rr5 abilities.
Fri 20 Sep 2019 10:30 AM by opossum12
Keelia wrote: ↑
Thu 19 Sep 2019 7:00 PM
opossum12 wrote: ↑
Thu 19 Sep 2019 6:35 PM
I didn't read the 24 pages of feedback as it obviously would take way too much time.

However, I don't think the changes above will change anything in regards to a caster meta. Current Live daoc has heavy tanks at 4k HPs and 30-80% secondary resists, but the meta is still the hybrid/caster train.

Buffing players by increasing health pool won't really change it.

Couple things that help tanker groups:

- NF charge
- abilities/items that increase secondary resists
- abilities that prevent debuffs
- more rupting abilties

All of which are not needed here. Well played tank groups do just fine against well played caster groups. It’s the meta because you never fight just 1 group, extending multiple groups is easier than with a tank group. You catered to the zergers so you get caster meta because of it.

Yeah I didn't mean like these abilities were necessarily needed, I meant more in the sense that just increasing hp wont change a single thing.

Hybrid/caster groups will always prevail because they are more polyvalent than a tanker setup. Tankers are pure 8v8 setups
Fri 20 Sep 2019 5:02 PM by Morreleh
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sat 14 Sep 2019 2:34 PM
None of these changes are scheduled for now but instead starting points to gather some feedback. The thread may or may not be split if feedback largely focuses on one aspect.

Changes that increase the TTK to very slightly push it away from the current caster only meta without touching resist debuffs or introducing charge that itself would require counter and then counter counter etc:

1) Add RR5 abilities
This would see the current (excepting necro) live rr5s, most of which are defensive in nature. It'll either be the intended rr5 ability per class or a choice from the RR5s of other classes of the same archetype (war, hero, arms being able to pick one of the 3 etc.)

Some of these seem way more powerful than others. Overall I'm not sure they are needed but might be fun.

2) Increase the con hp multiplier as champion levels did, something between cl 10 and 15 could work
3) Add con and hp overcap + fill gems (ie +8 con cap and +8 con in one) that can be bought for feathers / bp and added to existing accessory items
4) Increase PD and AoM to 39% at tier 9
5) Decrease WP and MoP to 25% at tier 9 and maybe add +1% (or scaling and ending at ~15% at tier 9) per tier to the minimum crit damage %

Okay, if TTK is an issue, these might be a good solution.

Archery changes:
1) Given that current 52 comp bow spec represents 100%, add a custom multiplier that starts below 100% and scales up to ~115 or 125% based on base bow spec
2) Move volley to 45 or 50 archery, add 1 minute cooldown
3) Penetrating arrow: allow self bt penetration with reduced damage

Okay with 1, and moving volley to needing 45 archery seems okay, 50 less so. 1 minute cooldown though is a bit harsh. I'm not sure if people realize how often volley hits absolutely nothing. It is strong in defense, I get that, but there are ways to counter volley, people just don't bother to use them. 3 would be okay

Potentially a bad idea but potentially exactly what scouts would need:
Add some melee range ability to 50 bow spec with a 10min reuse that applies the static tempest effect on 1 target (3 sec stun + stun immunity reset), maybe restrict crit shot to never work against stunned targets to compensate.

Scouts need another way to stun? Hmmm

Rework of the Repair / Durability System
There are a couple issues / missing features with the current repair / durability system and it practically has no impact whatsoever on anything:

1) Repair prices are based on the item price, in case of bp / feathers those prices count as copper resulting in those items being incredibly cheap to repair
2) Increased condition loss for too high items is practically meaningless as decay is only a couple times faster than it is on 50
3) Decay on 50 is too slow in general
4) Accessories don't decay at all
5) Focus is not affected by item condition
6) Item bonuses, including +skill, don't care about the item condition

To rectify the more pressing issues these changes are most likely:
1) Repair price will only take the item level into account and nothing else, not even item type
2) Add accessory decay
3) Add a feather / bp / gold way to repair durability
4) Item condition while above 90% will have no negative effect whatsoever but starting at <90% the 10% malus takes effect and it will also affect focus. This is meant to not "require" you to repair over and over again to be at peak efficiency but at the same time make repairs actually required
5) Reduce / disable bonuses once a certain condition is reached to make repairing required

At first glance I wasn't sure about these changes. Not a huge fan of the decay mechanic, but allowing durability to increase again they would be fine I think.

Buff Shearing
If it is implemented it would be the same type of shears for all 3 realms, most likely the fast cast time and 1500 range with no damage variant. Due to the prevalence of self buffing, timed self buffs from items would then also be sheareable. If shears are added, conc spells would become uninterruptible.

Hard no. Buffing is already not fun. More of it is even less fun.
Sat 21 Sep 2019 9:54 AM by Raunz
Reset ranks, do changes, remove timer.
Sat 21 Sep 2019 1:07 PM by Numatic
The fact is that Mythic/EA/Broadsword did not ruin DAoC. The players did. People are short sighted and egotistical. They want to be buffed and others to be nerfed. Its been like that since the beginning. It doesn't matter what they do. They can put the server back to DAoC 1.0 like it was on release and leave it that way and it will still die. Or anywhere in between. The only thing they can do is make changes to benefit the majority to reduce the loss of players over time. But it will happen eventually. It always does.

And the players are the ones to blame. Always have been. It's why so many game devs don't listen to the players. Because they would just ruin the game faster if they did. Any good dev will ask for feedback on changes and provide constructive criticism of popular feedback from the community. What players fail to take into account is not just 1+1=2 when it comes to changes. It also has to do with player behavior and even psychology. Its why some stores use certain paint colors because they make people feel a certain way. Or why they name a product the way they do, to invoke a response. Gaming is no different. And beyond that much more complicated.

When it comes to MMO's, its a complete crapshoot because generally speaking (lamens terms) people just suck.
Sat 21 Sep 2019 1:24 PM by Cadebrennus
Numatic wrote: ↑
Sat 21 Sep 2019 1:07 PM
The fact is that Mythic/EA/Broadsword did not ruin DAoC. The players did. People are short sighted and egotistical. They want to be buffed and others to be nerfed. Its been like that since the beginning. It doesn't matter what they do. They can put the server back to DAoC 1.0 like it was on release and leave it that way and it will still die. Or anywhere in between. The only thing they can do is make changes to benefit the majority to reduce the loss of players over time. But it will happen eventually. It always does.

And the players are the ones to blame. Always have been. It's why so many game devs don't listen to the players. Because they would just ruin the game faster if they did. Any good dev will ask for feedback on changes and provide constructive criticism of popular feedback from the community. What players fail to take into account is not just 1+1=2 when it comes to changes. It also has to do with player behavior and even psychology. Its why some stores use certain paint colors because they make people feel a certain way. Or why they name a product the way they do, to invoke a response. Gaming is no different. And beyond that much more complicated.

When it comes to MMO's, its a complete crapshoot because generally speaking (lamens terms) people just suck.

While you are semi-correct on the psychology of marketing (I spent a decade and a half in the advertising industry based in Los Angeles), you are 100% wrong about what killed DAOC Live. When I returned to the game in 2012 (playing from a crappy satellite connection on an Army base in the highlands of Afghanistan after a long day's mission) the game was on autopilot, with a decent population and happily ignored by EA. Things were as balanced as they could be post-TOA, the game wasn't completely uninviting to newbs, and the established player community was fairly supportive to newbs. A few years later, enter Broadsword and John at Broadsword, with "big ideas". Cut to the clusterf*ck it is today, and the existence of Phoenix. It's likely that Uthgard2 and later, Phoenix, would not have existed if John and the Broadsword team had not completely sh*t the bed, culminating in the disastrous patch of August 2016 that had players fleeing the game faster than passengers boarding life boats from the Titanic.

That gives me an idea. I'm not going to refer to the official version of DAOC as "Live" anymore. I'm just going to call it "Titanic". It was also a completely avoidable f*ck-up that resulted from the hubris of those in command. And before anyone QQs and says I'm being insensitive to the plight of the poor souls that went to an icey watery grave in the Atlantic, let it be known that I had a blood relative, a great-great uncle that died on the Titanic.

Oh, and the phrase is "layman's terms";

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/layman's%20terms
Sat 21 Sep 2019 2:42 PM by Tyrlaan
Please do not repeat Mythic´s mistakes. RR5s are very unbalanced with very overpowered (Remedy, Ranger RR5 stunning for their team mates, Theurgist PBAE stun, Reaver bomb - no banelord but TWF + triple PBAE is still quite the spike damage, Champ BoV, BD CC/NS resistance, Sorc SoI) and very underwhelming abilities. We had live to figure that out already. Allowing classes to choose from a set would just aggravate the problem - dividing between the haves and have-nots just like access or no access to certain NF RAs or MLs did.

Regarding Scouts, changing the bow lines will only slightly help them. They are already pidgeon-holed into archery because their melee is so underwhelming, yet Hunters and Rangers have access to the very same archery (with same range on Phoenix) + buffs. Adding a 10min RUT ability to reset stun immunity in melee isn´t going to make Scout more fun, neither at range nor in melee. Adding the Valkyrie´s Pin style to the Shield spec line (70% snare style at level 40 so they can actually escape 40% snare + disease spamming DWers) would. Agree with improving bow abilities at higher than 35 bow so there´s benefit to speccing it higher for all archers.

I don´t quite understand the changes to wear & tear. If durability can be repaired with gold (or bp, feathers) we get another sink - or need to farm these - in order to keep playing in RvR. I thought the ease to template and go RvR was intentional. If RoG jewelry (which templates are built around) can break, this would be quite a loss of QoL, having to redo the entire template whenever one is lost.

And I hate buffing, so I hate rebuffing after buff shears too. See above, we had live already to know why we hate them - and live has buff bots and buff NPCs. If you really want to add those, consider making them just suppress buffs (like moving out of tether would) for some time, effectively stacking with debuffs.
Sat 21 Sep 2019 2:44 PM by MacPrior
Agree! And I feel, the Rhoenix staff does the same what Broadsword does since some patches, doesnt it? Looks like they started with some good ideas and a perfect management and now lost the direction.
Sat 21 Sep 2019 4:19 PM by gotwqqd
ALL ARCHERS need a reason to maybe want to go to 50 bow.
Scout needs help on other end. Someone suggested chain armor.

How much damage does that mitigate aside from the help versus weapon type against frequent enemies?

As Blades is very popular with rangers and ns and sb is slash only
Sat 21 Sep 2019 7:56 PM by easytoremember
Numatic wrote: ↑
Sat 21 Sep 2019 1:07 PM
The fact is that Mythic/EA/Broadsword did not ruin DAoC. The players did. People are short sighted and egotistical. They want to be buffed and others to be nerfed. Its been like that since the beginning. It doesn't matter what they do.

And the players are the ones to blame. Always have been.
Yea right
People having fun ingame weren't posting on the forums, nor did anyone ask for SI classes or ToA or Catacombs, any of zones that continued splitting population up, nor LotM or DR or replacing original models with "better" garbage or the smaller stuff like changes to autorun and shift+forward, or spell effects when running and rupting your cast no longer showing up

Devs made the changes
Devs make the changes

You know about battlefield2 demo? There were 3 quality servers there that stayed up for almost a decade by Cobragaming. They were full every single day, each with 64 slots, 24/7 gulf of oman (cause it was the only map). There were no changes to bf2demo, ever. The 3 servers themselves stuck with their ruleset from beginning to end, and they only shutdown because gamespy pulled the plug on logon server support for all their titles. The other demo servers frequently messed with damage tables or revamped with revolving mods and their populations were eratic and shortlived. I remember Vega, BloodDragon, OSS, CaptureTheCity among them, and they were fun, but never stuck to one thing, and their populations died off. Next to their empty servers were the always-full Cobra ones, even for the final month of the master server. Trying BF2 Revived afterword was a terrible experience, EA be damned

You might say Uth stuck to one thing and died, but people didn't like the server settings from the start for xp, mob count, regeneration & tinders, w/e else they bitch about.
I like as is but followed population here

Point is people complaining doesn't amount to anything if you do nothing in response, and those same people are not responsible for you taking their shit into consideration
Sat 21 Sep 2019 10:49 PM by tommccartney
I no longer play after the OF/NF switch, but I still check in every now and then to see the current state of the server.

This server is tampered with more than Michael Jackson’s face.

When the server launched it was an absolute dream. 1.65 as a base. The QoL features made this server the best daoc experience I’ve ever had.
- Exp to 50 at a perfect rate (solo & group)
- Crafting QoL meant people who actually have lives stood a chance to become crafters/salvage
- RoG drops made PvE fun and exciting
- OF, 1.65 was a big attraction

Then the changes started happening,
- Nerf to buff charges, affected solo/smallman who ran WITHOUT cleric/shaman/Druid
- Darkspire opened = less TG, Sidi, Gala runs, Players struggled to get credit for feather items.
- Darkspire opening left certain classes undesired for end game DS PvE.
- Switch from OF to NF. Players like myself came here for 1.65 and OF. If I wanted keep/tower/dock camping/water fights/ bridge camping RvR then I’d play live.
- Various other little nerfs and changes at a fast pace.

Each time there was a fundamental change to the server the population would take a hit shortly after.

What concerns me is when the population is dying the Devs are actually considering buffing archer dmg. How in the hell is that going to help anything. So your dying population can finally be finished off with fotm adding scouts/hunters/rangers every fight ? Leave archers where they are. There SHOULDN’T be anything appealing about playing one. It should be difficult. Intended. It’s a lame style of play and I have been thankful that on this server they have been a low end class & low numbers.

The caster issue.
- If you nerf caster dmg or resist debuffs then kiss good bye to those players who play them....
- If you add con cap and increase the con multiplier to combat caster dmg it will have unforeseen affects

A fix to combat casters
- to increase ONLY Warrior/Hero/Armsman HP multiplier and magical resists, (let heavy tanks be heavy)
- Give Zerk/Svg/BM/Merc access to Charge RA.

The issue surrounding the decay of items ?
- didn’t even realise there was an issue, leave it alone.

All that being said, I would genuinely like to thank the Dev’s for all their hard work and dedication. They have always been fast to catch cheating players. Very fast response time regarding in game issues imo. Etc.
But I just feel they have lost sight of their original image.

If there is ever a server shut down, a break and possibly a Phoenix 2.0 in the future I just hope lessons have been learned

p.s - rr5 abilities - don’t be stupid. Why would you want to create a gap between sub rr5 and rr5+ players on a server with a delicate population
Sun 22 Sep 2019 12:52 AM by gotwqqd
tommccartney wrote: ↑
Sat 21 Sep 2019 10:49 PM
There SHOULDN’T be anything appealing about playing one.

What a selfish, self centered attitude.

I guess only the class(es) you wish to plat are “appealing”.
Sun 22 Sep 2019 8:36 AM by Frigzy
tommccartney wrote: ↑
Sat 21 Sep 2019 10:49 PM
I no longer play after the OF/NF switch, but I still check in every now and then to see the current state of the server.

This server is tampered with more than Michael Jackson’s face.

When the server launched it was an absolute dream. 1.65 as a base. The QoL features made this server the best daoc experience I’ve ever had.
- Exp to 50 at a perfect rate (solo & group)
- Crafting QoL meant people who actually have lives stood a chance to become crafters/salvage
- RoG drops made PvE fun and exciting
- OF, 1.65 was a big attraction

Then the changes started happening,
- Nerf to buff charges, affected solo/smallman who ran WITHOUT cleric/shaman/Druid
- Darkspire opened = less TG, Sidi, Gala runs, Players struggled to get credit for feather items.
- Darkspire opening left certain classes undesired for end game DS PvE.
- Switch from OF to NF. Players like myself came here for 1.65 and OF. If I wanted keep/tower/dock camping/water fights/ bridge camping RvR then I’d play live.
- Various other little nerfs and changes at a fast pace.

Each time there was a fundamental change to the server the population would take a hit shortly after.

What concerns me is when the population is dying the Devs are actually considering buffing archer dmg. How in the hell is that going to help anything. So your dying population can finally be finished off with fotm adding scouts/hunters/rangers every fight ? Leave archers where they are. There SHOULDN’T be anything appealing about playing one. It should be difficult. Intended. It’s a lame style of play and I have been thankful that on this server they have been a low end class & low numbers.

The caster issue.
- If you nerf caster dmg or resist debuffs then kiss good bye to those players who play them....
- If you add con cap and increase the con multiplier to combat caster dmg it will have unforeseen affects

A fix to combat casters
- to increase ONLY Warrior/Hero/Armsman HP multiplier and magical resists, (let heavy tanks be heavy)
- Give Zerk/Svg/BM/Merc access to Charge RA.

The issue surrounding the decay of items ?
- didn’t even realise there was an issue, leave it alone.

All that being said, I would genuinely like to thank the Dev’s for all their hard work and dedication. They have always been fast to catch cheating players. Very fast response time regarding in game issues imo. Etc.
But I just feel they have lost sight of their original image.

If there is ever a server shut down, a break and possibly a Phoenix 2.0 in the future I just hope lessons have been learned

p.s - rr5 abilities - don’t be stupid. Why would you want to create a gap between sub rr5 and rr5+ players on a server with a delicate population

I still play occasionally, but I wholeheartedly agree.

I think the staff has not given OF the chance it deserved. From the get-go it was drowned in a completely random task grind centered around keeps. YES, we all know OF keeps are pretty bad. But if you don't even let OF be OF without meddling with it to see what actually happens when 3k players play the game after 15 years, you're not giving it the credit it deserves, at all.
Sun 22 Sep 2019 9:45 AM by Freedomcall
Frigzy wrote: ↑
Sun 22 Sep 2019 8:36 AM
I still play occasionally, but I wholeheartedly agree.

I think the staff has not given OF the chance it deserved. From the get-go it was drowned in a completely random task grind centered around keeps. YES, we all know OF keeps are pretty bad. But if you don't even let OF be OF without meddling with it to see what actually happens when 3k players play the game after 15 years, you're not giving it the credit it deserves, at all.

Playerbase already had dropped to 1.5k on EU prime when they decided to start testing NF.
Sun 22 Sep 2019 9:50 AM by Frigzy
Freedomcall wrote: ↑
Sun 22 Sep 2019 9:45 AM
Playerbase already had dropped to 1.5k on EU prime when they decided to start testing NF.

I know, I'm not saying the server would have magically remained at 3k players if they kept OF, I'm just saying OF has a lot more potential which has been left untapped. There's a lot more factors at play than just the frontier zone in regards to overall player activity.
Sun 22 Sep 2019 9:57 AM by relvinian
The devs here are pretty clever and seem to be willing to try stuff.

The bigger question i would ask is what did we learn from the launch and the time since then?

Is the task system and rps for tasks good or bad for the server?

Is old or new frontier ideal?

How about a custom land mass?

PVP or RVR?

Are there too many high utility drops or about right?
Sun 22 Sep 2019 12:51 PM by ExcretusMaximus
Honestly, if this were my server, I'd shut it down due to all the assholes and constant bitching.

A lot of you people don't deserve a nice free server to play the best game ever made, and you certainly don't deserve all the time and effort that they've put into it.
Sun 22 Sep 2019 3:35 PM by Cadebrennus
Frigzy wrote: ↑
Sun 22 Sep 2019 8:36 AM
tommccartney wrote: ↑
Sat 21 Sep 2019 10:49 PM
I no longer play after the OF/NF switch, but I still check in every now and then to see the current state of the server.

This server is tampered with more than Michael Jackson’s face.

When the server launched it was an absolute dream. 1.65 as a base. The QoL features made this server the best daoc experience I’ve ever had.
- Exp to 50 at a perfect rate (solo & group)
- Crafting QoL meant people who actually have lives stood a chance to become crafters/salvage
- RoG drops made PvE fun and exciting
- OF, 1.65 was a big attraction

Then the changes started happening,
- Nerf to buff charges, affected solo/smallman who ran WITHOUT cleric/shaman/Druid
- Darkspire opened = less TG, Sidi, Gala runs, Players struggled to get credit for feather items.
- Darkspire opening left certain classes undesired for end game DS PvE.
- Switch from OF to NF. Players like myself came here for 1.65 and OF. If I wanted keep/tower/dock camping/water fights/ bridge camping RvR then I’d play live.
- Various other little nerfs and changes at a fast pace.

Each time there was a fundamental change to the server the population would take a hit shortly after.

What concerns me is when the population is dying the Devs are actually considering buffing archer dmg. How in the hell is that going to help anything. So your dying population can finally be finished off with fotm adding scouts/hunters/rangers every fight ? Leave archers where they are. There SHOULDN’T be anything appealing about playing one. It should be difficult. Intended. It’s a lame style of play and I have been thankful that on this server they have been a low end class & low numbers.

The caster issue.
- If you nerf caster dmg or resist debuffs then kiss good bye to those players who play them....
- If you add con cap and increase the con multiplier to combat caster dmg it will have unforeseen affects

A fix to combat casters
- to increase ONLY Warrior/Hero/Armsman HP multiplier and magical resists, (let heavy tanks be heavy)
- Give Zerk/Svg/BM/Merc access to Charge RA.

The issue surrounding the decay of items ?
- didn’t even realise there was an issue, leave it alone.

All that being said, I would genuinely like to thank the Dev’s for all their hard work and dedication. They have always been fast to catch cheating players. Very fast response time regarding in game issues imo. Etc.
But I just feel they have lost sight of their original image.

If there is ever a server shut down, a break and possibly a Phoenix 2.0 in the future I just hope lessons have been learned

p.s - rr5 abilities - don’t be stupid. Why would you want to create a gap between sub rr5 and rr5+ players on a server with a delicate population

I still play occasionally, but I wholeheartedly agree.

I think the staff has not given OF the chance it deserved. From the get-go it was drowned in a completely random task grind centered around keeps. YES, we all know OF keeps are pretty bad. But if you don't even let OF be OF without meddling with it to see what actually happens when 3k players play the game after 15 years, you're not giving it the credit it deserves, at all.

OF was primarily a two-realm game, but the primary reason for the switch to NF was a technical reason. At least NF is a three-realm game.
Sun 22 Sep 2019 3:45 PM by Cadebrennus
Frigzy wrote: ↑
Sun 22 Sep 2019 9:50 AM
Freedomcall wrote: ↑
Sun 22 Sep 2019 9:45 AM
Playerbase already had dropped to 1.5k on EU prime when they decided to start testing NF.

I know, I'm not saying the server would have magically remained at 3k players if they kept OF, I'm just saying OF has a lot more potential which has been left untapped. There's a lot more factors at play than just the frontier zone in regards to overall player activity.

This is all of the "potential" that OF has: an Emain run in gif form......
.

.
Sun 22 Sep 2019 4:57 PM by Frigzy
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Sun 22 Sep 2019 3:45 PM
This is all of the "potential" that OF has: an Emain run in gif form......
.
*gif*
.

Expand your thinking

https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=11229#p85787
Sun 22 Sep 2019 5:52 PM by Uthred
Uthred wrote: ↑
Wed 18 Sep 2019 9:10 AM
We will not switch back to OF.

On the one hand the voting was very clear, on the other hand there are some technial reasons why we wont do it. I think Schaf just posted it yesterday in the "changes"-thread.
Sun 22 Sep 2019 7:23 PM by easytoremember
For archtypes a few classes don't really fit I think

Warrior / Hero / Armsman / Paladin
Berserker / Blademaster / Mercenary / Savage
Skald / Bard / Minstrel
Thane / Champion / Reaver / Valewalker
Shadowblade / Nightshade / Infiltrator
Hunter / Ranger / Scout
Healer / Druid / Cleric / Shaman
- / Warden / Friar
Runemaster / Eldritch / Wizard
Spiritmaster / Enchanter / Cabalist
- / Mentalist / Sorcerer
- / Animist / Theurgist
Bonedancer / - / -
- / - / Necromancer



If Warden were able to select Friar RA would he need a staff equipped?
Would Zerk/Merc using Blade Barrier make sense?
Why is the Theurg suddenly morphing into a mushroom
Sun 22 Sep 2019 7:56 PM by Makrist
ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Sun 22 Sep 2019 12:51 PM
Honestly, if this were my server, I'd shut it down due to all the assholes and constant bitching.

A lot of you people don't deserve a nice free server to play the best game ever made, and you certainly don't deserve all the time and effort that they've put into it.

I appreciate the effort and contributions to make this game a reality, but there is nothing obligating me to invest time in a game without a plan. The question is what is their vision of what this game is, and it seems they have no F'ing idea. They are obviously not obligated to do anything i suggest, and that is fair. Im also not obligated to stick around and indulge the game when i have no idea what it will look like in a month. Especially when their ideas start to mimic the worst ideas of live that drove so many away.

Goes both ways.
Sun 22 Sep 2019 8:07 PM by Cadebrennus
Makrist wrote: ↑
Sun 22 Sep 2019 7:56 PM
ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Sun 22 Sep 2019 12:51 PM
Honestly, if this were my server, I'd shut it down due to all the assholes and constant bitching.

A lot of you people don't deserve a nice free server to play the best game ever made, and you certainly don't deserve all the time and effort that they've put into it.

I appreciate the effort and contributions to make this game a reality, but there is nothing obligating me to invest time in a game without a plan. The question is what is their vision of what this game is, and it seems they have no F'ing idea. They are obviously not obligated to do anything i suggest, and that is fair. Im also not obligated to stick around and indulge the game when i have no idea what it will look like in a month. Especially when their ideas start to mimic the worst ideas of live that drove so many away.

Goes both ways.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

A server in essence is a partnership between the Devs and the players. You can't have a successful server without both fully committed and a level of trust between both.
Sun 22 Sep 2019 10:09 PM by cuuchulain79
ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Sun 22 Sep 2019 12:51 PM
Honestly, if this were my server, I'd shut it down due to all the assholes and constant bitching.

A lot of you people don't deserve a nice free server to play the best game ever made, and you certainly don't deserve all the time and effort that they've put into it.

When Phoenix was coming out, it seemed like every complaint from the Uth2 forums had been answered. Earlier in this thread, grue confirmed that answering Uth2 QQ had deliberately been a thing they tried to do with Phoenix. Just weeks into live, it was obvious forum QQ shapes their server...it still does.

Since the beginning we've watched "listening to the player base" be the only constant in Phoenixes direction...

From the beginning this server attracted the assholes, constantly bitching on Uth2...it's obvious even with a staff dedicated to giving those jerks whatever they want...they will just keep on bitching. That's just what they do. And look what 'listening' to all those jerks has done...it's made a circus out of what a lot of people hoped was going to be a nice 'Classic w/ QoL' server.

Given the opportunity they've had on Phoenix, the player base wants (I guess)

QoL...not like a bit easier than "Classic" but like solo to 50 in ~20 hrs...epic gear readily available...super ez afk macro crafting...free RPs (happy to just suicide and afk for RPs)...instant port to 'action'...healer right by bind in RvR...

Nerfs...if enough players die to something and whine, nerf it into the ground! Assassins, animists, RAs that kill afk ppl, and soon, volley.

Classic...bah, screw classic...let's get ToA clown suits, NF, and enough customizations to liven things up!

Anyway, just sayin that listening to people bitch and whine is about the only direction this server ever had. Personally, I hope the next time DAoC gets a server, that the very vocal jerks stay here to feel 'listened to.' Or, for that server to recognize the bottomless wants of forum whiners, and not make pleasing trolls their motto.
Mon 23 Sep 2019 12:30 PM by Uthred
cuuchulain79 wrote: ↑
Sun 22 Sep 2019 10:09 PM
When Phoenix was coming out, it seemed like every complaint from the Uth2 forums had been answered. Earlier in this thread, grue confirmed that answering Uth2 QQ had deliberately been a thing they tried to do with Phoenix. Just weeks into live, it was obvious forum QQ shapes their server...it still does.

Since the beginning we've watched "listening to the player base" be the only constant in Phoenixes direction...

From the beginning this server attracted the assholes, constantly bitching on Uth2...it's obvious even with a staff dedicated to giving those jerks whatever they want...they will just keep on bitching. That's just what they do. And look what 'listening' to all those jerks has done...it's made a circus out of what a lot of people hoped was going to be a nice 'Classic w/ QoL' server.

Given the opportunity they've had on Phoenix, the player base wants (I guess)

QoL...not like a bit easier than "Classic" but like solo to 50 in ~20 hrs...epic gear readily available...super ez afk macro crafting...free RPs (happy to just suicide and afk for RPs)...instant port to 'action'...healer right by bind in RvR...

Nerfs...if enough players die to something and whine, nerf it into the ground! Assassins, animists, RAs that kill afk ppl, and soon, volley.

Classic...bah, screw classic...let's get ToA clown suits, NF, and enough customizations to liven things up!

Anyway, just sayin that listening to people bitch and whine is about the only direction this server ever had. Personally, I hope the next time DAoC gets a server, that the very vocal jerks stay here to feel 'listened to.' Or, for that server to recognize the bottomless wants of forum whiners, and not make pleasing trolls their motto.

Interesting point of view from someone who didint log in for more than 6 months, has 4 toons in total on his account, highest level 30. Yes, you really know how Phoenix is and was and of course, will be. *giggles.

Honestly, if people like you would stop spreading constant negativity, the forum would be a way better place for everyone. You dont have to like what the staff is doing here and you also dont have to agree with upcoming changes. But if you decide to stop playing on Phoenix, you should at least dont try to ruin the fun for those who are still playing on this server.
Mon 23 Sep 2019 12:44 PM by Tritri
It's more than crossing the line to dig in someones account to see how they played and judge their opinion by that
And to publicly display it

Just because you have the power to do it doesn't mean it's OK to do it

Hello Big Brother
Mon 23 Sep 2019 12:52 PM by chryso
I like it. Guy complains about complainers when it turns out that he is just a complainer himself.
Mon 23 Sep 2019 1:39 PM by Ardri
chryso wrote: ↑
Mon 23 Sep 2019 12:52 PM
I like it. Guy complains about complainers when it turns out that he is just a complainer himself.

cuuchulain79 just getting boomed by Uthred. Really embarrassing. If i had to guess, i would say the majority of those complaining the forums are just like him. No lvl 50 too, much less anything even close to rr5.
Mon 23 Sep 2019 1:48 PM by Ardri
Tritri wrote: ↑
Mon 23 Sep 2019 12:44 PM
It's more than crossing the line to dig in someones account to see how they played and judge their opinion by that
And to publicly display it

Just because you have the power to do it doesn't mean it's OK to do it

Hello Big Brother

It's perfectly reasonable and fine to do so. The guy is publicly bashing the server/devs, on their own forums. This should be met with a public rebuttal and thrashing of its own. If you don't even play the game/server, you should have zero say in giving feedback. He's basically complaining about lvl 50 endgame content when he doesn't have a lvl 50 and has never been to the rvr zone on Phoenix. Just nonsense. GET 'EM OUTTA HERE.
Mon 23 Sep 2019 2:06 PM by Tritri
It's not because it raises a lot of other issue :

- We can't check what Uthred said, so we have to trust him on this (and I don't trust people who do that kind of things)
- We don't know if it's his only account
- Just because someone doesn't even play doesn't mean he isn't saying something worth reading and taking into account. The opposite is true too or else we would have listen to people like Raunz
- It discredit other people that may give their input and disagreement while still playing the game (like you INSTANTLY said : "i would say the majority of those complaining the forums are just like him" which you have no proof whatsoever)

Trying to tacle people's argument over their play time / level / RR is very low, doesn't bring anything to the table and miss the whole point


If Uthred has time to investigate and publicly bash people like a tyrant on his forum, maybe he could use that time to actually answer the complains and explain why he disagrees with it.
Would be much more helpful
Mon 23 Sep 2019 2:28 PM by Cadebrennus
Tritri wrote: ↑
Mon 23 Sep 2019 2:06 PM
It's not because it raises a lot of other issue :

- We can't check what Uthred said, so we have to trust him on this (and I don't trust people who do that kind of things)
- We don't know if it's his only account
- Just because someone doesn't even play doesn't mean he isn't saying something worth reading and taking into account. The opposite is true too or else we would have listen to people like Raunz
- It discredit other people that may give their input and disagreement while still playing the game (like you INSTANTLY said : "i would say the majority of those complaining the forums are just like him" which you have no proof whatsoever)

Trying to tacle people's argument over their play time / level / RR is very low, doesn't bring anything to the table and miss the whole point


If Uthred has time to investigate and publicly bash people like a tyrant on his forum, maybe he could use that time to actually answer the complains and explain why he disagrees with it.
Would be much more helpful
.
Some people just want to watch the (virtual) world burn.
.
.

.
I've had some serious disagreements with the Devs myself, and I've even left the server for a while over it. However, on this matter, Uthred is correct.
Mon 23 Sep 2019 3:21 PM by Sleepwell
Tritri wrote: ↑
Mon 23 Sep 2019 2:06 PM
It's not because it raises a lot of other issue :

- We can't check what Uthred said, so we have to trust him on this (and I don't trust people who do that kind of things)
-We don't know if it's his only account
- Just because someone doesn't even play doesn't mean he isn't saying something worth reading and taking into account. The opposite is true too or else we would have listen to people like Raunz
- It discredit other people that may give their input and disagreement while still playing the game (like you INSTANTLY said : "i would say the majority of those complaining the forums are just like him" which you have no proof whatsoever)

Trying to tacle people's argument over their play time / level / RR is very low, doesn't bring anything to the table and miss the whole point


If Uthred has time to investigate and publicly bash people like a tyrant on his forum, maybe he could use that time to actually answer the complains and explain why he disagrees with it.
Would be much more helpful


You're right. But theyre not tyrants. If they were, they would "assume" he has a second account with level 50's which is against server rules and ban him without proof... now "that" would be tyranical :-)
Mon 23 Sep 2019 4:35 PM by Uthred
Tritri wrote: ↑
Mon 23 Sep 2019 2:06 PM
It's not because it raises a lot of other issue :

- We can't check what Uthred said, so we have to trust him on this (and I don't trust people who do that kind of things)
- We don't know if it's his only account
- Just because someone doesn't even play doesn't mean he isn't saying something worth reading and taking into account. The opposite is true too or else we would have listen to people like Raunz
- It discredit other people that may give their input and disagreement while still playing the game (like you INSTANTLY said : "i would say the majority of those complaining the forums are just like him" which you have no proof whatsoever)

Trying to tacle people's argument over their play time / level / RR is very low, doesn't bring anything to the table and miss the whole point


If Uthred has time to investigate and publicly bash people like a tyrant on his forum, maybe he could use that time to actually answer the complains and explain why he disagrees with it.
Would be much more helpful

Calling me a liar (or at least a not trustworthy person) and a tyrant. Hm, not very nice.

I didnt post these facts (trust me, they are facts) to make fun about this person but to show that there are a lot of persons that try to spread negativity on this forum for various reasons. And yes, trust me (again), there have been a lot of people that created forum accs just to cause trouble or telling lies about other players, staff members or the server in general. But that is not the case here.

This thread is (or should be) to inform players (people that are actually playing) about upcoming/planned changes. We would like to give an insight about what we are discussing and which changes we are thinking to implement. It is also to explain why we think these changes are needed and/or an improvement to Phoenix. In addition this thread is also about you (the players) and what you think about the changes. We are interested in reasonable feedback.

The guy doesnt talk in any word about the planned changes. He is only complaining about the staff (doesnt have any direction, only listens to whiners) and makes some assumptions about things that might get nerfed (volley). Also he is telling lies ("Classic...bah, screw classic...let's get ToA clown suits, NF". If he would still play he would know the reason why we switched to NF. Schaf and me posted it just some pages ago. Feel free to scroll up and find out for yourself). None of his post is about facts nor it is about the topic of this thread. It is nothing but blaming Phoenix.

As i said in my post before, it is totally ok to not like what we are doing here and to disagree with the changes we did or planning to do. It is also ok to stop playing on Phoenix if you dont like it (anymore). We are aware of the fact that we cant please everyone. But it is not ok to blame the team through falsehoods and non-topic-related stuff.

Anyways, this is getting totally offtopic, but hopefully clears things up a bit. So please, lets get back on topic. Let us know what you think about the changes and why you may like or dislike them.
Mon 23 Sep 2019 4:53 PM by chois
i have a question, is it possible to create sub forum with TL report for each classes and see what people can suggest for their class, not indifinitely but for a week or 2, to see what stand out, submit changes to all pple, and see what u can do or not
Mon 23 Sep 2019 9:28 PM by Frigzy
So are the changes in the op to be seen as planned/upcoming or considered (with player feedback being a potential key decision element)?

Most players I have talked to find the list rather absurd quite frankly, and overall balance to be at a fairly good spot at this point.

I have a feeling that if these changes are implemented like advertised they will not sit well with a significant portion of the population.

What the guy said who got ad-hominem'd is not without fault. This server started out being advertised as a diamond polishing project and seems to be developing in a polishing fetish rather than a diamond.

At some point even a raw diamond will start to look more appealing than whatever it is being turned into.

It's not an invalid concern. I personally believe a fair amount of changes were implemented too hastily. Even though the bulk of the progession has been positive, it feels like more and more we're getting stuck in a place where we have to take the good with the bad, even though the bad just feels incredibly and increasingly unnecessary.

As if raw Classic is represented by one pole, the middle way by the neutral center and Phoenix now evolving towards the other pole, increasingly overshooting its target.

This doesn't necessarily have to be a problem as it can be countered with proper recalibration. However, my biggest concern right now is that this overshooting is starting to feel like a one way street, leaving the classic player with two dead ends and the eternal desire for a middle way.
Mon 23 Sep 2019 9:56 PM by Makrist
You describe a desire to move away from the caster meta and making melee more viable. Fair. Players have often stated they feel the realm timer is too restrictive and that it encourages players to be static in one realm. At the same time the realm timer discussion appears to be nowhere on your (Phoenix Staff) radar. If i consider the nightly primetime population in my timezone you all are pleasing Midgard just fine. (50's in FZ: 130M. 70A. 57H)

Working as intended? Not sure, but at least Volley is getting nerfed.
Mon 23 Sep 2019 10:10 PM by Crix
No to everything but buff shear. Buff classes without them are boring.
Mon 23 Sep 2019 10:38 PM by gruenesschaf
Frigzy wrote: ↑
Mon 23 Sep 2019 9:28 PM
So are the changes in the op to be seen as planned/upcoming or considered (with player feedback being a potential key decision element)?

As if raw Classic is represented by one pole, the middle way by the neutral center and Phoenix now evolving towards the other pole, increasingly overshooting its target.

This doesn't necessarily have to be a problem as it can be countered with proper recalibration. However, my biggest concern right now is that this overshooting is starting to feel like a one way street, leaving the classic player with two dead ends and the eternal desire for a middle way.

I'd really like to hear what people think classic even means and what changes specifically move away from it.

Does classic mean the official "classic" server of 2005 aka salisbury / glastonbury with no toa but with catacombs and patch level around 1.82?

Does classic mean strict 1.65, if so why? Just because it's used as the starting point and the last patch before toa? 1.65 as is was one of the worst possible patches, it's just that what came before was worse and what came after introduced, aside from fixing some long standing issues, ability bloat in part to fix some of those issues and this ability bloat completely changed how the game feels / plays.

We have tried to be careful with not referring to this as a classic server but as 1.65 as the foundation with changes from there. Sure there will likely have been a couple slip ups but, aside from classic not really being well defined, it has always been and continues to be 1.65 as the foundation with changes from there.

What we have to get out of the way in the first place is that there being changes or no changes was never a question, there were always supposed to be changes to react to what happens, it was announced as such (1.65 as the foundation with changes from there) and this is not and was never intended as something set in stone and left as is forever.

Is reducing the downtime / time to action classic? No.
Is prevalent porting around in the own realm zones classic? No.
Is having a quick time to 50 and quick time to be RvR ready classic? No.
Is good equipment while leveling classic? No.
Are somewhat challenging, optional pve encounter classic? No.
Is being able to cast more than 4 heals until oom classic? No.

Was moving to NNF RAs better than changing OF RAs when the end result of the latter would have been heavily inspired by the NF RA effects anyways? The option to leave RAs like SoS, GPurge etc. unchanged was not ever on the table and this provided a way to also fix most of the worthless RAs. But sure NNF ras, unless you take the official classic definition, would not be classic. I wouldn't say it's a bad thing though given the alternatives but that's a subjective point where the opinions will and do heavily diverge. However, with the reduced time to action having lower cooldowns on (somewhat) less impactful RAs makes sense.

Are cosmetics like reskins to toa / catacombs / whatever models fitting into a such a setting? Subjective, it's cosmetics so some will love it some will hate it majority will be meh about it but it's an aspect of character progression that also has no impact on the game.

Are changes / nerfs to old and standing mechanics fitting into a such a setting when player knowledge and/or qol improvements make (ab)use of that mechanic much more prevalent? (Assassin dot reapplication restriction due to /swap and hence literally everyone doing it on every single swing)

Are changes to heavily abused bugs / mechanics fitting into such a setting? (placing shrooms into the air / places where they can ignore los and then nerfing it heavily to just make such things entirely impossible until other work arounds can at some point be found)


Personal, subjective opinions:
I personally believe MLs and CL abilities, while in the grand scheme of things working nicely together and making the gameplay better, would be ability bloat and too far and definitely crossing the line, another line to me would be items with powerful and unique effects, even if they too would make it better it would just not fit. Imo shears are on the verge as it's ability bloat but at the same time it would be a somewhat welcome improvement for how some classes play. New archery is also on the verge but more towards not fitting despite being objectively better and a major improvement, it's just entirely different.

Number changes however, like increasing the HP, reducing crit or increasing secondary resists would imo be neutral in that regard of fitting or not fitting as long as it doesn't take stupid proportions. Sure some would screech ToA at the idea of seeing +x overcap con or +x overcap hitpoints but if added onto existing items the end result would literally just be an hp increase which could also be achieved by just changing the base hp and/or con multiplier and then just be "invisible".

As much as it almost pains me to say it but purely from the point of general ability balance raunz is right that somewhere between 1.87 and 1.100 would objectively have been a better starting point. However, even there some notable changes would have been required either due to public perception (even if warlocks were fine at that point the class kind of represents all that went wrong, same for minotaurs / mauler and there is no way whatsoever to fix the stigma) or just to fix stupidity like the reversal of theurgist ice pets starting to cast again after rupt and ofc lots of other changes that would only become apparent when any given patch level is played for an extended amount of time. But anyways, for subjective reasons such a patch level would just not really have the mass appeal due to how everyone sees ToA / cata and some later features that were entirely broken when introduced even if they were pretty much fixed into usability by the time those patch levels were in as well as it just playing entirely differently due to the ability bloat.
But alas, not ever going to happen and imo we did so far a good job in fixing many of the glaring 1.65 issues while not straying too far despite taking slightly different routes than what live did from 1.65 onwards while also not straying into ability bloat territory.
Tue 24 Sep 2019 12:04 AM by gruenesschaf
chois wrote: ↑
Mon 23 Sep 2019 4:53 PM
i have a question, is it possible to create sub forum with TL report for each classes and see what people can suggest for their class, not indifinitely but for a week or 2, to see what stand out, submit changes to all pple, and see what u can do or not

A formal TL system has the major problem of bias. You will most likely have a couple that are amazing and at least try to be completely objective and taking the entirety into account but more often than not what you often gain is just over the top changes to the class they represent expecting less over the top versions of those still over the top changes to go through and then, if reasonable suggestions from the more reasonable tl is taken, whine because one suggested change of another class was taken as is while all changes for the class they represent were rejected.

Nothing prevents you, or anyone for that matter, to just bundle changes for a given class together in the suggestion forum. We read all topics there but unless it appears to have some traction / good will in the community don't expect any action from us. However, in case of controversial changes / when we internally can't decide we usually also opt to not react while hoping for better suggestions still, the primary example here is probably the archery stuff, it was / is bad but there isn't a single objectively better thing to be done, only stuff with different trade offs.
Tue 24 Sep 2019 7:15 AM by REVOLTE
1) Add RR5 abilities
either custom or limited choice since some RR5s are stupidly powerful while others are derp.

2) Increase the con hp multiplier as champion levels did, something between cl 10 and 15 could work
yes.

3) Add con and hp overcap + fill gems (ie +8 con cap and +8 con in one) that can be bought for feathers / bp and added to existing accessory items
no. 2) is enough - no need to make gearing more complicated for new players/casuals

4) Increase PD and AoM to 39% at tier 9
no, but decrease the cost of AoM and PD - makes those RAs more available without creating extremes for RR10+ toons

5) Decrease WP and MoP to 25% at tier 9 and maybe add +1% (or scaling and ending at ~15% at tier 9) per tier to the minimum crit damage %
wait for tests after implementation of 2) & 4). dont go overboard immediately.

Archery changes:
1) Given that current 52 comp bow spec represents 100%, add a custom multiplier that starts below 100% and scales up to ~115 or 125% based on base bow spec
yes to 115%. archers need some help.

2) Move volley to 45 or 50 archery, add 1 minute cooldown
yes - create Volley I and II - one for 45, one for 50 bow - Volley I having a .8 multiplier.

3) Penetrating arrow: allow self bt penetration with reduced damage
cannot comment.

Potentially a bad idea but potentially exactly what scouts would need:
Add some melee range ability to 50 bow spec with a 10min reuse that applies the static tempest effect on 1 target (3 sec stun + stun immunity reset), maybe restrict crit shot to never work against stunned targets to compensate.
no, just...no.

Rework of the Repair / Durability System
no. aint nobody got time for this.

Buff Shearing
If it is implemented it would be the same type of shears for all 3 realms, most likely the fast cast time and 1500 range with no damage variant. Due to the prevalence of self buffing, timed self buffs from items would then also be sheareable. If shears are added, conc spells would become uninterruptible.
[/quote]
sounds like fun. im gonna say yiiis.
Tue 24 Sep 2019 8:02 AM by Raunz
Was moving to NNF RAs better than changing OF RAs when the end result of the latter would have been heavily inspired by the NF RA effects anyways? The option to leave RAs like SoS, GPurge etc. unchanged was not ever on the table and this provided a way to also fix most of the worthless RAs. But sure NNF ras, unless you take the official classic definition, would not be classic. I wouldn't say it's a bad thing though given the alternatives but that's a subjective point where the opinions will and do heavily diverge. However, with the reduced time to action having lower cooldowns on (somewhat) less impactful RAs makes sense.
I like that you guys tried to balance the realm abilities at least but i think you needed fully balance them first and ask us to test different realm abilities over time to see the full implications when moving to NNFRA's during beta. As they are right now even it would of been better to just remove GP+SOS and leave rest as is.
You mentioned crit RA being too strong, yes we already said that during beta and not only only casters. Light tank for example don't have to spend any points on "Charge" so you can go lw1+tire1+det9 and MoPain right away and get insane amount of crit rate at quite low rank already without having to sacrifice anything as there is limited amount of options.With TOA that would not matter as much as light tanks are mostly interrupt bots not damage dealers.

With the amount of damage in the game from crit+damage add is too much with this low amount of hp and limited self abilities/charges to mitigate damage(remember even in beta when bm style damage and inherent af was broken and bms did broken amount of damage it was not this bad as you had cheap old bof and wild arcana to crit debuff them to nothingness). Yes you have mad heals still even tho they got nerfed a bit after i complained non stop, the burst is still too high.
Now you add NNFRA's that increase that damage even more like AOTG, TWF and you have some ridiculous dumping going on that determine fight outcomes and that is not how DAOC gameplay should be like imo.

Personal, subjective opinions:
I personally believe MLs and CL abilities, while in the grand scheme of things working nicely together and making the gameplay better, would be ability bloat and too far and definitely crossing the line, another line to me would be items with powerful and unique effects, even if they too would make it better it would just not fit. Imo shears are on the verge as it's ability bloat but at the same time it would be a somewhat welcome improvement for how some classes play. New archery is also on the verge but more towards not fitting despite being objectively better and a major improvement, it's just entirely different.

As much as it almost pains me to say it but purely from the point of general ability balance raunz is right that somewhere between 1.87 and 1.100 would objectively have been a better starting point. However, even there some notable changes would have been required either due to public perception (even if warlocks were fine at that point the class kind of represents all that went wrong, same for minotaurs / mauler and there is no way whatsoever to fix the stigma) or just to fix stupidity like the reversal of theurgist ice pets starting to cast again after rupt and ofc lots of other changes that would only become apparent when any given patch level is played for an extended amount of time. But anyways, for subjective reasons such a patch level would just not really have the mass appeal due to how everyone sees ToA / cata and some later features that were entirely broken when introduced even if they were pretty much fixed into usability by the time those patch levels were in as well as it just playing entirely differently due to the ability bloat.
But alas, not ever going to happen and imo we did so far a good job in fixing many of the glaring 1.65 issues while not straying too far despite taking slightly different routes than what live did from 1.65 onwards while also not straying into ability bloat territory.

Yes that is correct you are totally right that game was most balanced around patch 1.9x, both me and amo who is the numbers guy and me the big picture thinker agree on.
During that era you had many options what setups to run and all classes were viable, EXCEPT Warlock. Sorry to brake it people but it was never a thing outside bombing zergs or camping bridges.
I would say most strongest and versatile setups were hybrid setups in all realms, there was some issues with alb being too powerful at some point where you had no way to kill the red minstrel pet without greater focal myth but outside that it was super balanced.
Theurg pet thing agreed.


In general tho i don't see how NNFRA's fit in with mostly everything else being classic like as it just creates too many imbalances or just dumping of RA's every fight and takes away the pure skill from daoc gameplay, with toa+cl stuff you have tools to counter everything but it may be too much for the "plebs" to handle and the cap would ofc be too wide where they would have zero chance to win.

A interesting solution would be to go original NewRA's and RR5 abilities as the new ones are way too powerful, with some changes and adding in few things Like:

You can have charge on tanks if you just put in speedwarps as a caster class ability.
Give mids baseline spirit nuke to make more setup options possible and not just 1-2 that everyone runs, "fun factor".
Give us CL5-10 not sure what the right balance would be put light tanks outside charge need cast single disease or they would just stand there not being able to do anything with charge down.
Now bodyguard is iffy as with no banelords who knows what would happen but you would definitely need some tools to counter charge assist trains, not sure what would that be tho maybe give short timer melee/magic charges and bracer of zoarkat type of aoe fumble charge.

If you look at balance i would say just take few setup types as a example and think how it would play out in the battle, what the win condition is and how it would be maximum skill based.
Get some of the big boys on a test server with i50+ranks and we will battle it out to test all your stuff and we will have fun while doing it.
I can promote the shit out of that and be nice guy, every1 kow Raunz is good guy
Tue 24 Sep 2019 11:00 AM by Lillebror
Old frontier RA's with New frontier Purge.
i also like the passives from 1-9 instead of 1-5

Dont need much else tbh
Tue 24 Sep 2019 1:13 PM by Razur Ur
raunz forget new styles by 2H Weapon with lvl. 25 Backsnare for all Realms!
Tue 24 Sep 2019 2:18 PM by Shamissa
I would love magical arrows tbh, I really dont like those stupid arrows you have to carry all over the place.
I say no to buff shear.
Tue 24 Sep 2019 3:52 PM by Symond
To me classic means:

1. Pre ToA zones
2. Old frontiers
3. Old frontiers realm abilities

QoL improvements are the best things that build on the classic mindset.

Custom changes should be focused on balance and things such as how to make odins and hadrians popular rvr zones like OF emain.

Even instances have split the player population.
Tue 24 Sep 2019 4:10 PM by Roto23
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Mon 23 Sep 2019 10:38 PM
Frigzy wrote: ↑
Mon 23 Sep 2019 9:28 PM
So are the changes in the op to be seen as planned/upcoming or considered (with player feedback being a potential key decision element)?

As if raw Classic is represented by one pole, the middle way by the neutral center and Phoenix now evolving towards the other pole, increasingly overshooting its target.

This doesn't necessarily have to be a problem as it can be countered with proper recalibration. However, my biggest concern right now is that this overshooting is starting to feel like a one way street, leaving the classic player with two dead ends and the eternal desire for a middle way.

I'd really like to hear what people think classic even means and what changes specifically move away from it.

Does classic mean the official "classic" server of 2005 aka salisbury / glastonbury with no toa but with catacombs and patch level around 1.82?

Does classic mean strict 1.65, if so why? Just because it's used as the starting point and the last patch before toa? 1.65 as is was one of the worst possible patches, it's just that what came before was worse and what came after introduced, aside from fixing some long standing issues, ability bloat in part to fix some of those issues and this ability bloat completely changed how the game feels / plays.

We have tried to be careful with not referring to this as a classic server but as 1.65 as the foundation with changes from there. Sure there will likely have been a couple slip ups but, aside from classic not really being well defined, it has always been and continues to be 1.65 as the foundation with changes from there.

What we have to get out of the way in the first place is that there being changes or no changes was never a question, there were always supposed to be changes to react to what happens, it was announced as such (1.65 as the foundation with changes from there) and this is not and was never intended as something set in stone and left as is forever.

Is reducing the downtime / time to action classic? No.
Is prevalent porting around in the own realm zones classic? No.
Is having a quick time to 50 and quick time to be RvR ready classic? No.
Is good equipment while leveling classic? No.
Are somewhat challenging, optional pve encounter classic? No.
Is being able to cast more than 4 heals until oom classic? No.

Was moving to NNF RAs better than changing OF RAs when the end result of the latter would have been heavily inspired by the NF RA effects anyways? The option to leave RAs like SoS, GPurge etc. unchanged was not ever on the table and this provided a way to also fix most of the worthless RAs. But sure NNF ras, unless you take the official classic definition, would not be classic. I wouldn't say it's a bad thing though given the alternatives but that's a subjective point where the opinions will and do heavily diverge. However, with the reduced time to action having lower cooldowns on (somewhat) less impactful RAs makes sense.

Are cosmetics like reskins to toa / catacombs / whatever models fitting into a such a setting? Subjective, it's cosmetics so some will love it some will hate it majority will be meh about it but it's an aspect of character progression that also has no impact on the game.

Are changes / nerfs to old and standing mechanics fitting into a such a setting when player knowledge and/or qol improvements make (ab)use of that mechanic much more prevalent? (Assassin dot reapplication restriction due to /swap and hence literally everyone doing it on every single swing)

Are changes to heavily abused bugs / mechanics fitting into such a setting? (placing shrooms into the air / places where they can ignore los and then nerfing it heavily to just make such things entirely impossible until other work arounds can at some point be found)


Personal, subjective opinions:
I personally believe MLs and CL abilities, while in the grand scheme of things working nicely together and making the gameplay better, would be ability bloat and too far and definitely crossing the line, another line to me would be items with powerful and unique effects, even if they too would make it better it would just not fit. Imo shears are on the verge as it's ability bloat but at the same time it would be a somewhat welcome improvement for how some classes play. New archery is also on the verge but more towards not fitting despite being objectively better and a major improvement, it's just entirely different.

Number changes however, like increasing the HP, reducing crit or increasing secondary resists would imo be neutral in that regard of fitting or not fitting as long as it doesn't take stupid proportions. Sure some would screech ToA at the idea of seeing +x overcap con or +x overcap hitpoints but if added onto existing items the end result would literally just be an hp increase which could also be achieved by just changing the base hp and/or con multiplier and then just be "invisible".

As much as it almost pains me to say it but purely from the point of general ability balance raunz is right that somewhere between 1.87 and 1.100 would objectively have been a better starting point. However, even there some notable changes would have been required either due to public perception (even if warlocks were fine at that point the class kind of represents all that went wrong, same for minotaurs / mauler and there is no way whatsoever to fix the stigma) or just to fix stupidity like the reversal of theurgist ice pets starting to cast again after rupt and ofc lots of other changes that would only become apparent when any given patch level is played for an extended amount of time. But anyways, for subjective reasons such a patch level would just not really have the mass appeal due to how everyone sees ToA / cata and some later features that were entirely broken when introduced even if they were pretty much fixed into usability by the time those patch levels were in as well as it just playing entirely differently due to the ability bloat.
But alas, not ever going to happen and imo we did so far a good job in fixing many of the glaring 1.65 issues while not straying too far despite taking slightly different routes than what live did from 1.65 onwards while also not straying into ability bloat territory.
Personally I think its perfect right now. Thats why these changes scare me and I voted OF, but now like NF better.
PLEASE PLEASE take the changes slow.

One thing this game misses is the ability to get a unique item that is more powerful then the rest. It would be awesome if each realm had 3 powerful weapons each. In other words give people the slim chance of hitting the lottery. Make these 3x3 = 9 items last 3 months real time. When one item is gone, code it to spawn another one.
Tue 24 Sep 2019 5:53 PM by ulf
I read all posts :

Most of 290 posts are against Potential Changes , its time to close this post i think and go on news ideas like quests in rvr
Tue 24 Sep 2019 6:00 PM by gotwqqd
Shamissa wrote: ↑
Tue 24 Sep 2019 2:18 PM
I would love magical arrows tbh, I really dont like those stupid arrows you have to carry all over the place.
I say no to buff shear.

Vomit.... I abhor those archery changes
Tue 24 Sep 2019 6:03 PM by easytoremember
gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Tue 24 Sep 2019 6:00 PM
Shamissa wrote: ↑
Tue 24 Sep 2019 2:18 PM
I would love magical arrows tbh, I really dont like those stupid arrows you have to carry all over the place.
I say no to buff shear.

Vomit.... I abhor those archery changes
same
Tue 24 Sep 2019 6:35 PM by cuuchulain79
Uthred wrote: ↑
Mon 23 Sep 2019 4:35 PM
Let us know what you think about the changes and why you may like or dislike them.

Like I wrote in my original post, I don't see the point of these changes. Successful long standing servers in this genre have a simple goal, and encourage two types of players: Daily "core" population, and seasonal population...players that play in spurts stay interested because the game remains accessible. Adopting the full custom model loses that accessibility, in favor of keeping its daily players entertained with frequent changes (like adding RR5 abilities, which will inevitably lead to more changes to further balance the meta...etc, etc). It's fine if Phoenix wants to be a fully custom server, but you sort of need to own the fact that a year ago, this was like a dream come true for fans of "classic w/ QoL"...and I'm not the only saddened classic fan on these boards by watching Phoenix become what it has.

Uthred wrote: ↑
Mon 23 Sep 2019 4:35 PM
He is only complaining about the staff (doesnt have any direction, only listens to whiners)

May I ask then....what is the direction? Forgive me, but "changes as we see fit" doesn't seem like a sustainable server model. As far as listening to whiners....I think you need to own this too. When Phoenix implemented a 3 minute penalty for death, I thought that was a good idea, and clearly the staff did too....but after 3 pages of forum whining, staff cave in and remove it. A lot of things from animists, to envenom, to charge buffs, even OF/NF have been changed in the same way. It's difficult to know what/if anything the staff aren't willing to change.

Uthred wrote: ↑
Mon 23 Sep 2019 4:35 PM
makes some assumptions about things that might get nerfed (volley)

Staff: We might be about to nerf volley.
Me: Why nerf volley?
Staff: What makes you think we might nerf volley?

Uthred wrote: ↑
Mon 23 Sep 2019 4:35 PM
Also he is telling lies ("Classic...bah, screw classic...let's get ToA clown suits, NF".

How is it a lie that you implemented NF and ToA reskins? How is it a lie that Phoenix has also basically said, "screw classic."

Uthred wrote: ↑
Mon 23 Sep 2019 12:30 PM
Honestly, if people like you would stop spreading constant negativity, the forum would be a way better place for everyone.

You do realize, this server is about the biggest bait and switch server for DAoC in a decade right? All of the hype was built on OF and Old RA, with some nice QoL. Now nine months into launch, you're having serious conversations with Raunz about the best direction to go in? All of this "negativity" could have been prevented by just letting people know from the beginning that Phoenix was to be a full custom server. Then you wouldn't have people like me mucking up your forums saying, "What the hell happened?"

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Mon 23 Sep 2019 10:38 PM
We have tried to be careful with not referring to this as a classic server but as 1.65 as the foundation with changes from there. Sure there will likely have been a couple slip ups...

LOL. Epic.
Tue 24 Sep 2019 11:00 PM by Cadebrennus
Shamissa wrote: ↑
Tue 24 Sep 2019 2:18 PM
I would love magical arrows tbh, I really dont like those stupid arrows you have to carry all over the place.
I say no to buff shear.

With the "magical arrow" system height calculations are no longer factored in, and it's a direct line of distance to your target. That means you can't hit targets from a tall tower with magic arrows that you can hit with old archery. In addition you can't pre-draw a shot with magic arrows, and you need two LOS checks to hit a target: one to even be able to draw a shot, and the second to release the shot. I'll take old archery thanks
Wed 25 Sep 2019 5:21 AM by Raunz
What we really need is rank reset, realm timer removal and just change a lot of stuff, super boring to play same patch level over and over again anyway.

Go ahead go crazy with changes who cares.
Wed 25 Sep 2019 7:55 AM by Forlornhope
chryso wrote: ↑
Mon 16 Sep 2019 1:17 PM
Forlornhope wrote: ↑
Mon 16 Sep 2019 12:26 PM
Would degrading accessories and durability loss on those not cause people to retemplate?

3) Add a feather / bp / gold way to repair durability

I will admit, I missed this on a first reading also.

Yeah I went back and re read everything. But I don't understand why they would bother putting that in? It would make much more sense to remove all durability loss rather than creating something new that's literally just a money/feather sink.
Wed 25 Sep 2019 8:03 AM by Cadebrennus
Forlornhope wrote: ↑
Wed 25 Sep 2019 7:55 AM
chryso wrote: ↑
Mon 16 Sep 2019 1:17 PM
Forlornhope wrote: ↑
Mon 16 Sep 2019 12:26 PM
Would degrading accessories and durability loss on those not cause people to retemplate?

3) Add a feather / bp / gold way to repair durability

I will admit, I missed this on a first reading also.

Yeah I went back and re read everything. But I don't understand why they would bother putting that in? It would make much more sense to remove all durability loss rather than creating something new that's literally just a money/feather sink.

Devs regardless of game always want a time sink in their games. Here the time sink is gold/BPs/feathers.
Wed 25 Sep 2019 8:12 AM by Forlornhope
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Wed 25 Sep 2019 8:03 AM
Forlornhope wrote: ↑
Wed 25 Sep 2019 7:55 AM
chryso wrote: ↑
Mon 16 Sep 2019 1:17 PM
3) Add a feather / bp / gold way to repair durability

I will admit, I missed this on a first reading also.

Yeah I went back and re read everything. But I don't understand why they would bother putting that in? It would make much more sense to remove all durability loss rather than creating something new that's literally just a money/feather sink.

Devs regardless of game always want a time sink in their games. Here the time sink is gold/BPs/feathers.
Oh I know, and I guess the sink would not be too bad. And they should maybe add it anyway for the already decreasing durability of items we have. They do want us to have some incentive to do their new dungeons, but I have no desire to do that and don't want it to be an obligation in order to farm feathers for gold or my shit to not break. But, that will be entirely dependent on how much it would actually cost and if you could feasibly rvr enough to afford it with bps/feather/gold gain from that.
P.S. Hello from Smitetheshepard <3
Wed 25 Sep 2019 8:18 AM by gotwqqd
Raunz wrote: ↑
Wed 25 Sep 2019 5:21 AM
What we really need is rank reset, realm timer removal and just change a lot of stuff, super boring to play same patch level over and over again anyway.

Go ahead go crazy with changes who cares.

Sounds like you just need to find a different game
Wed 25 Sep 2019 5:36 PM by Lipsi
1) Add RR5 abilities - would be nice to get some new toys at RR5 indeed
All other TTK mods not welcome (without bringing in further balancing like artis, ml, slower weapons, cap increases, etc.)
As of current balancing, think that a 15 sec longer fight costs a savage running 3 buffs 15% of its full health bar. Increasing TTK would need to carefully measure all those consequences and much more rebalancing than in original post.

Rework of the Repair / Durability System
3) Add a feather / bp / gold way to repair durability - would be nice
5) Reduce / disable bonuses once a certain condition is reached to make repairing required - would be nice

Buff Shearing
Not a big fan, aug lines do not specifically need special care, with no buffbots in game, being the main buffer guarantees you already to get love from your team mates that will run to save your ass in fight, and if you want to buffsheer an ennemy, you can already go try to kill his buffer. that way, druids/clerics/shamans can still focus on mending or cave role. Would also be a problem for potion users / solos or groups running without a class that has spec buffs.
Thu 26 Sep 2019 6:07 AM by Aminita
Durability? . leave it alone, will just cause more problems.

Overall, it seems like these changes area for "change only " ..
No Buff shearing,
No RR5.. not necessary ..
If it aint broke, dont fix it.

I DO have an issue with the Volley potential change.
ALL realms have it .. equality there ..
Easy to avoid, get under a roof.

Want to change something ?? change the GTAOE...
Nowhere inside of a CK is safe..
You can even KILL the Keep lord with GTAOE.. Not right
Needs modification .

As your records easily tell you , Hibernia is by far the underdog, Always has been. .. Since the onset of the game. 19 years ago ..
Populations only reaching 1/2 of Midgard for 75% of the 24 hour periods... ( here on Phoenix)
We are usually on the DEFENSIVE .. Going against Much greater numbers.
The ONLY thing that has evened the balance has been the animist.
Have played the animist for 17 years. Tried to play it last night..
TOTALLY ineffective for Keep defense with the present limitations. A pet class that can only cast its pet 300 units.??
While Other classes have pets that actually go INTO a keep after someone.. OR will attack for 2000-300 units away..
There is no Parity here.

Please modify the animist and his pets for defense inside a keep..

Thank you
Aminita
Thu 26 Sep 2019 6:13 AM by easytoremember
Still hate the idea of RR5 being shared across realms but do like having them available
It disadvantages 4L9 and below regardless of how "fast" RR5 can be achieved

Having classes outside the original using signature RA's is blah

Like Eldritch or Runemaster popping Wall of Flame
Sorcerer getting Selective Blindness
Enchanter and Spiritmaster (LOL) getting Resolute Minion
Champion/Reaver having Chainlightning, and Champion/Thane Soul Quench
Shadowblade/Infiltrator using Remedy was already shitty in its own right casue of how boring it was for them to share the same ability across realms

If your aim is providing defensive or longitivity RA just throw all players extra ~10 RSP and prerequisite spending those ~10 points into 'defensive' RAs so they don't get thrown into offensive/utility instead

Dish those points all at once, per x levels, per realm rank, whatever


Aminita wrote: ↑
Thu 26 Sep 2019 6:07 AM
You can even KILL the Keep lord with GTAOE.. Not right
Needs modification .
Wrong.
Thu 26 Sep 2019 6:52 AM by Sepplord
gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Wed 25 Sep 2019 8:18 AM
Raunz wrote: ↑
Wed 25 Sep 2019 5:21 AM
What we really need is rank reset, realm timer removal and just change a lot of stuff, super boring to play same patch level over and over again anyway.

Go ahead go crazy with changes who cares.

Sounds like you just need to find a different game

No game stays intresting for long, if you play it ten hours a day...
At that point you just need to start taking it slow or play multiple games that you switch around
Thu 26 Sep 2019 9:57 AM by Forlornhope
Aminita wrote: ↑
Thu 26 Sep 2019 6:07 AM
Want to change something ?? change the GTAOE...
Nowhere inside of a CK is safe..
You can even KILL the Keep lord with GTAOE.. Not right
Needs modification .


As a druid player and someone who is generally in positions for inner defense standing near the lord, you CAN NOT kill the lord with gtaoe. The lord attempts to leave the room on impact, and gets reset to 100% hp once it reaches its tether range. I do agree it's annoying as all hell and in towers there is literally nowhere you can be an not get rupted. It is even worse when the numbers are large and they get staggered correctly causing perma rupt. The only thing that should be done about it is something similar to twf with the axis.
Thu 26 Sep 2019 5:44 PM by Zouz
The only needed change is a realm switch timer between 30 minutes and 1 hour.

Still enough to avoid people logging in another realm when they got trolled/grieved/ripped.
Still enough for people to not "join the dominant zerg" for task rps.

But also easier for people to fill groups and balance realm population.

Nobody likes to see 5 groups of a realm looking for a fight when other realms struggle filling groups.

Also allow for group re-forming after a small break !

I really think it would help the action.
Thu 26 Sep 2019 10:39 PM by gotwqqd
Zouz wrote: ↑
Thu 26 Sep 2019 5:44 PM
The only needed change is a realm switch timer between 30 minutes and 1 hour.

Still enough to avoid people logging in another realm when they got trolled/grieved/ripped.
Still enough for people to not "join the dominant zerg" for task rps.

But also easier for people to fill groups and balance realm population.

Nobody likes to see 5 groups of a realm looking for a fight when other realms struggle filling groups.

Also allow for group re-forming after a small break !

I really think it would help the action.
One hour is laughable

Though I can see 4-6 hours being ok
And again add a realm switch queue so you can continue playing but are forced into new realm after min timer is up

Though could there be an issue with someone(group wb raid) setting up something on realm A then instantly going to realm B and capitalizing?
Thu 26 Sep 2019 10:56 PM by Zouz
What's laughable about a 30min timer?
Fri 27 Sep 2019 1:06 AM by gotwqqd
Zouz wrote: ↑
Thu 26 Sep 2019 10:56 PM
What's laughable about a 30min timer?

The abuse and advantages that can be taken with it
Fri 27 Sep 2019 8:08 AM by hyshash
gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Fri 27 Sep 2019 1:06 AM
Zouz wrote: ↑
Thu 26 Sep 2019 10:56 PM
What's laughable about a 30min timer?

The abuse and advantages that can be taken with it

What abuse? and wich advantages that actually make a difference?

tbh 30 mins are enough as a timer.
with a timer as long as now or anything longer then 2h i suppose there are a few grps in positions like mine ...
we got days where discussions in our whatsapp grp look like that (we are alb regular):
player1 sry got smth else to do today cant log
player2 some1 else missing so i can log mid?
player3 hm dont rly know if im on today sorry maybe my wife needs me
player2 ok i got 5h now till we would normally log... ill log mid .. player6 do you wanna join?
player6 ok ill join you
player3 (3h later) ok i can log
all other player well we are missing 2 ppl allready ... dunno dont rly want to search for randoms lets just skip today

this discussion isnt like a 1 time thing but actually happens quiet often and i think there are more grps/ppl where this thing happen
Fri 27 Sep 2019 11:37 AM by Cadebrennus
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Thu 26 Sep 2019 6:52 AM
gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Wed 25 Sep 2019 8:18 AM
Raunz wrote: ↑
Wed 25 Sep 2019 5:21 AM
What we really need is rank reset, realm timer removal and just change a lot of stuff, super boring to play same patch level over and over again anyway.

Go ahead go crazy with changes who cares.

Sounds like you just need to find a different game

No game stays intresting for long, if you play it ten hours a day...
At that point you just need to start taking it slow or play multiple games that you switch around

That's why I microdose DAOC like others microdose LSD!
Fri 27 Sep 2019 11:39 AM by Cadebrennus
Zouz wrote: ↑
Thu 26 Sep 2019 5:44 PM
The only needed change is a realm switch timer between 30 minutes and 1 hour.

Still enough to avoid people logging in another realm when they got trolled/grieved/ripped.
Still enough for people to not "join the dominant zerg" for task rps.

But also easier for people to fill groups and balance realm population.

Nobody likes to see 5 groups of a realm looking for a fight when other realms struggle filling groups.

Also allow for group re-forming after a small break !

I really think it would help the action.

That's a really good point. There are people (like myself) who would rather log out of a realm with higher numbers and head to a realm with lower numbers so that fights are at least more interesting. That way you're playing in a target-rich environment
Fri 27 Sep 2019 2:03 PM by Uthred
Please stay on topic. This thread is only about the potential changes. Thank you very much.
Mon 30 Sep 2019 11:25 AM by Makrist
Uthred wrote: ↑
Fri 27 Sep 2019 2:03 PM
Please stay on topic. This thread is only about the potential changes. Thank you very much.

I havent seen anyone dismiss reasonable player concerns for a game characteristic like this since the grab bags of live. Might as well have simply put "working as intended". The entire playerbase understands that means go pound sand.
Mon 30 Sep 2019 12:15 PM by Nunki
Makrist wrote: ↑
Mon 30 Sep 2019 11:25 AM
Uthred wrote: ↑
Fri 27 Sep 2019 2:03 PM
Please stay on topic. This thread is only about the potential changes. Thank you very much.

I havent seen anyone dismiss reasonable player concerns for a game characteristic like this since the grab bags of live. Might as well have simply put "working as intended". The entire playerbase understands that means go pound sand.

There is a simple reason. Discussing several topics in one thread is chaotic and not expedient.
There were several "reduce timer" discussions, why include it in this thread?
Mon 30 Sep 2019 12:28 PM by Makrist
Nunki wrote: ↑
Mon 30 Sep 2019 12:15 PM
Makrist wrote: ↑
Mon 30 Sep 2019 11:25 AM
Uthred wrote: ↑
Fri 27 Sep 2019 2:03 PM
Please stay on topic. This thread is only about the potential changes. Thank you very much.

I havent seen anyone dismiss reasonable player concerns for a game characteristic like this since the grab bags of live. Might as well have simply put "working as intended". The entire playerbase understands that means go pound sand.

There is a simple reason. Discussing several topics in one thread is chaotic and not expedient.
There were several "reduce timer" discussions, why include it in this thread?

Its more the fact that it is highly discussed and requested by many and yet clearly not designated or apparently even considered as a potential change. Its the complete dismissal of what almost everyone seemingly agrees to be a reasonable request rather than the placement of the post.
Mon 30 Sep 2019 1:24 PM by Uthred
And again, pls stop the discussion about the realm timer. We stated multiple times what we think about it. Feel free to do a search on the forum and you will find the answer to your questions.

This thread is only about the announced changes in post #1. Any further offtopic discussion will be deleted without any comment. Thank you for understanding.
Sat 5 Oct 2019 4:39 PM by opossum12
Heavy tanks are in a great place on Live. Mainly because of 4 things:

20% passive secondary magic resists
Rampage (group buff that makes 100% resist debuffs, 5 minutes timer)
Fury (40% secondary resist buff, lasts 30 seconds, 10 minutes timer)
Bolster (group purge (but can't be stun/mezz to use))

I know we want to keep ability bloat in check, and I think bolster would be op on this setting.

However, 20% passive on heavy tanks only (hero, arms and war) with the addition of rampage woukd be tremendous help to tank groups, without bringing an ability like charge.
Mon 7 Oct 2019 12:01 PM by Keelia
opossum12 wrote: ↑
Sat 5 Oct 2019 4:39 PM
Heavy tanks are in a great place on Live. Mainly because of 4 things:

20% passive secondary magic resists
Rampage (group buff that makes 100% resist debuffs, 5 minutes timer)
Fury (40% secondary resist buff, lasts 30 seconds, 10 minutes timer)
Bolster (group purge (but can't be stun/mezz to use))

I know we want to keep ability bloat in check, and I think bolster would be op on this setting.

However, 20% passive on heavy tanks only (hero, arms and war) with the addition of rampage woukd be tremendous help to tank groups, without bringing an ability like charge.

Tank groups are fine. Issue is no one plays them right against caster groups. So we should buff a class because they are being utilized properly? That’s silly. Tanks are just fine the way they are. There used to be a few solid tank groups who would wreck people. Not anymore but this server is dead so it’s expected.
Mon 7 Oct 2019 8:19 PM by Nunki
Keelia wrote: ↑
Mon 7 Oct 2019 12:01 PM
Not anymore but this server is dead so it’s expected.

I read your comment.

I login and travel around for nearly 30 minutes to find a place that is NOT totally overcrowded.

60vs60vs60 zerg fights. Relics usually changing in less than 12 hours.
fgs roaming around everywhere.
small-grps everywhere.

Hard to find some solo fights without adds. (not complaining, totally fun )

Server is dead? ROFL. Especially EU primetime is an absolute blast.
Mon 7 Oct 2019 8:46 PM by Keelia
Nunki wrote: ↑
Mon 7 Oct 2019 8:19 PM
Keelia wrote: ↑
Mon 7 Oct 2019 12:01 PM
Not anymore but this server is dead so it’s expected.

I read your comment.

I login and travel around for nearly 30 minutes to find a place that is NOT totally overcrowded.

60vs60vs60 zerg fights. Relics usually changing in less than 12 hours.
fgs roaming around everywhere.
small-grps everywhere.

Hard to find some solo fights without adds. (not complaining, totally fun )

Server is dead? ROFL. Especially EU primetime is an absolute blast.

You play EU, I’d love to see your comments when you do the same thing NA prime time.
Tue 8 Oct 2019 7:01 AM by Sepplord
Keelia wrote: ↑
Mon 7 Oct 2019 8:46 PM
Nunki wrote: ↑
Mon 7 Oct 2019 8:19 PM
Keelia wrote: ↑
Mon 7 Oct 2019 12:01 PM
Not anymore but this server is dead so it’s expected.

I read your comment.

I login and travel around for nearly 30 minutes to find a place that is NOT totally overcrowded.

60vs60vs60 zerg fights. Relics usually changing in less than 12 hours.
fgs roaming around everywhere.
small-grps everywhere.

Hard to find some solo fights without adds. (not complaining, totally fun )

Server is dead? ROFL. Especially EU primetime is an absolute blast.

You play EU, I’d love to see your comments when you do the same thing NA prime time.

NA is a bit less populated, hibs/albs lose about half their pop compared to EU while mids seem to stay basically constant.

Still very far from "being dead"
Tue 8 Oct 2019 9:06 AM by iamsaitam
Keelia wrote: ↑
Mon 7 Oct 2019 8:46 PM
Nunki wrote: ↑
Mon 7 Oct 2019 8:19 PM
Keelia wrote: ↑
Mon 7 Oct 2019 12:01 PM
Not anymore but this server is dead so it’s expected.

I read your comment.

I login and travel around for nearly 30 minutes to find a place that is NOT totally overcrowded.

60vs60vs60 zerg fights. Relics usually changing in less than 12 hours.
fgs roaming around everywhere.
small-grps everywhere.

Hard to find some solo fights without adds. (not complaining, totally fun )

Server is dead? ROFL. Especially EU primetime is an absolute blast.

You play EU, I’d love to see your comments when you do the same thing NA prime time.

Excuse Nunki's comment, he forgot that NA is the center of the world. Please close the server when there's only 40 people playing NA prime time.

PS: You don't sound like someone who is enjoying the experience, stop playing if it's not up to par with your standards.
Wed 9 Oct 2019 11:24 AM by Keelia
iamsaitam wrote: ↑
Tue 8 Oct 2019 9:06 AM
Keelia wrote: ↑
Mon 7 Oct 2019 8:46 PM
Nunki wrote: ↑
Mon 7 Oct 2019 8:19 PM
I read your comment.

I login and travel around for nearly 30 minutes to find a place that is NOT totally overcrowded.

60vs60vs60 zerg fights. Relics usually changing in less than 12 hours.
fgs roaming around everywhere.
small-grps everywhere.

Hard to find some solo fights without adds. (not complaining, totally fun )

Server is dead? ROFL. Especially EU primetime is an absolute blast.

You play EU, I’d love to see your comments when you do the same thing NA prime time.

Excuse Nunki's comment, he forgot that NA is the center of the world. Please close the server when there's only 40 people playing NA prime time.

PS: You don't sound like someone who is enjoying the experience, stop playing if it's not up to par with your standards.

Good least we’re on the same page now.
Sat 19 Oct 2019 10:06 AM by gotwqqd
I think moving volley to the archery lines is a good idea.
Though I think there needs to be a damage increase that is more than nominal.
Fri 22 Nov 2019 3:11 PM by asnusia
boosting bow dmg is a good idea (even only for scout class because ranger and hunter have self buff and pet/add dmg to boost their ranged dmg) the recent hp boost kills scout even more, and remove the minimal range of volley so scout can slam - volley the target
Mon 27 Jan 2020 8:24 PM by Thisisfubar99
I think adding RR5 abilities would be a cool thing.

Also the archery changes sound good, atm archers seem only viable in stealth group or leeching rp's at keep / tower defenses, kinda lackluster imo. (but ive only dabbled on a low rank archer).

Adding the passive magic resists on pure tanks might be too much but it would definetly give them more flavour (being a real tank) since as a melee you mostly get nuked down by casters anyway.

I also kind of think charge for lighttanks would be cool but i'm guessing this has already been up for discussion and turned down.
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