Rapid fire despite being rupted and melee range

Is it intended for archers to be able to use rapid fire almost immediately after being rupted? On my cave sham i got the jump on a scout, I was spamming him with spells and he still managed to get a rapid fire shot off even though I was chain rupting him with spells for 3-4 seconds (no resists btw). This isn't the first time I have fought an archer where it felt like they don't have to deal with rupts like how us casters do? They are able to just immediately shoot you with rapid fire after being rupted, this is so broken.

Another thing I wanna get off my chest is how the hell do assassins garrote you from 15 feet away? It feels like they have caster range sometimes its insane. A melee ability that can chain snare you should not work from caster range lol. I can't count the times I have managed to kite to what looks liek complete safety only to be garroted from across the screen, really please look into this, assassins already have a huge advantage, they don't need long distance perma snare.

Sat 7 Sep 2019 12:43 AM by Cadebrennus

Interrupt timers also take into account the delay of the ability that they are using. If they are using Rapid Fire then their added delay before being able to shoot again is only 1.5 seconds. If you are using a slower spell then yes, they will be able to counter you, just like anyone using a faster spell than you. Use a faster spell or have an insta-DD item to interrupt them AGAIN and then use your spells again. The insta-DD (and later, the TOA pet belt) was my only hope of fighting Casters when I was on Live.

Sat 7 Sep 2019 12:56 AM by carlwinslow

That's interesting thanks for the info, broken as hell but interesting. Where did you learn the mechanic worked that way>? I still don't get how I can be shot while I am already chain casting/rupting for a few seconds on an archer cuz my cast speed is quite fast.

Sat 7 Sep 2019 1:13 AM by Cadebrennus

carlwinslow wrote: ↑
Sat 7 Sep 2019 12:56 AM
That's interesting thanks for the info, broken as hell but interesting. Where did you learn the mechanic worked that way>? I still don't get how I can be shot while I am already chain casting/rupting for a few seconds on an archer cuz my cast speed is quite fast.

I can't remember where I've seen it but I'm sure someone like a Dev can dig up that information. Archers are generally pretty screwed vs a Caster so that's literally the only tool they have vs a Caster so just let them have it. Oh wait, dogs. Hunters also have dogs.

Sat 7 Sep 2019 1:17 AM by carlwinslow

https://camelotherald.fandom.com/wiki/Patch_Notes:_Version_1.62

I don't see anything about the rupt recovery being shorter in the official patch notes? This is a special ability not a normal attack so I am curious why the half speed thing you claim should apply to it. If there is no official source saying the rupt recovery timer should work this way then they should definitely nerf it to be on par with normal bow timers. If there is a source saying rapid fire can recover almost instantly from rupt then I would accept the fact I suppose.

Archer vs caster is actually a good match up for an archer, I can kill a caster in like 3 shots on my ranger so I dunno why you are acting like they are gimped here, especially rangers, if anything rangers are way over tuned here and this is coming from a rr6 ranger.

Sat 7 Sep 2019 1:23 AM by Cadebrennus

carlwinslow wrote: ↑
Sat 7 Sep 2019 1:17 AM
https://camelotherald.fandom.com/wiki/Patch_Notes:_Version_1.62

I don't see anything about their rupt timer being shorter here.

Archer vs caster is actually a good match up for an archer, I can kill a caster in like 3 shots on my ranger so I dunno why you are acting like they are gimped here, especially rangers.

They aren't gimp. They are just more useful in group and zerg RvR imo than solo. Casters have instas, QC, and ranged CC (including NS), and some have pets which negate ranged abilities, all of which Archers lack (except for the pet on one Archer class). Archers have some melee and melee CC, but that requires an Archer to close the gap first, rendering their primary line useless at that point.

Good job killing afk sitting Casters or untemped Casters though. Keep up the good work.
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Sat 7 Sep 2019 1:24 AM by carlwinslow

Yeah dude I just kill afk sitting casters on my ranger rofl. Maybe you need to respec if your ranger isn't doing so hot. There is no excuse for your ranger to be gimp in the current server setting.

Sat 7 Sep 2019 2:32 AM by ExcretusMaximus

carlwinslow wrote: ↑
Sat 7 Sep 2019 1:24 AM
Yeah dude I just kill afk sitting casters on my ranger rofl. Maybe you need to respec if your ranger isn't doing so hot. There is no excuse for your ranger to be gimp in the current server setting.

You come here asking a question, start crying, and then start picking fights.

I'm sure people will flock to help you.

Sat 7 Sep 2019 2:52 AM by carlwinslow

I didn't pick a fight, he acts like rangers are gimped and I said otherwise based on my own personal experience of being able to own casters on my ranger. If you don't like that I called for a nerf to rapid fire that's one thing but don't accuse me of trying to start fights.
He also doubted that my ranger can own casters as if its some impossible thing. If you rolled a shar then you don't get to complain that your bow shots are mediocre , that is the price you paid since you probably wanted to be a melee ranger. Another thing is I can't take the current batch of rangers seriously cuz all they do is zerg/rapid fire/volley. No respect for this kind of easy mode stuff, show some skill.

Rangers are one of the most desirable classes at the moment based on the fact that they are kind of busted, so any ranger who is saying they ar gimped probably needs to respec or work on their ranger skills. I stopped playing mine because it was way too easy, btw rr6 almost entirely solo AND this was during the time period where archers were food for assassins, would have been rr10 by now but I didn't like how easy mode it is especially after the stealth changes and just generally being able to own people besides hybrid rupters and si classes.
So what about my crying did you not like? Archers shooting through being rupted or assassins garroting you from across the map?

I am trying to have a peaceful conversation no need for hostility just because I called for much needed nerfs.

Sat 7 Sep 2019 11:03 AM by Cadebrennus

I've already told you how to beat an Archer easily. There's no reason that most semi-intelligent Casters with even half their toolkit cannot beat an Archer in a ranged fight.

Sat 7 Sep 2019 3:46 PM by carlwinslow

Okay well I just looked you up on the herald and A. you are a Celt which is not optimal for sniping casters. B. you are only 3l1 so you don't have the RA's to kill fast anyways. You need to be around rr4-5ish to drop casters fast and ideally a Lurikeen. It makes sense why you are having issues, your guy is probably better suited to be a melee ranger going forward.

Sat 7 Sep 2019 3:53 PM by Cadebrennus

carlwinslow wrote: ↑
Sat 7 Sep 2019 3:46 PM
Okay well I just looked you up on the herald and A. you are a Celt which is not optimal for sniping casters. B. you are only 3l1 so you don't have the RA's to kill fast anyways. You need to be around rr4-5ish to drop casters fast and ideally a Lurikeen. It makes sense why you are having issues, your guy is probably better suited to be a melee ranger going forward.

I stopped playing Hib about a month after Phoenix launched and barely came back to the game 3 months ago on Alb, and back on Hib a week ago. I was one of their most active testers during beta, and have played my Ranger on live from 2013-2016. I ranked up on Live from RR3 to RR8 playing less than 6 hours a week on average. My RR here has nothing to do with my experience.

Sat 7 Sep 2019 7:58 PM by carlwinslow

Alright you don't play your character yet you pretend like rangers are gimped, live archer is nothing like OF archers, done.

Sat 7 Sep 2019 11:31 PM by Cadebrennus

carlwinslow wrote: ↑
Sat 7 Sep 2019 7:58 PM
Alright you don't play your character yet you pretend like rangers are gimped, live archer is nothing like OF archers, done.

I've been playing recently and they're fine. Not OP'ed, not completely gimp, just fine. They have their niche just like everything else. Just admit you suck as a caster and get on with your life. No shame in that. I can admit I'm a terrible player on healers and casters yet do very well (better than most) on melee and melee/hybrid classes (like Archers).

Sat 7 Sep 2019 11:46 PM by carlwinslow

So if I die because I got garroted from 20 feet away or i get rapid fired despite having the jump and chain rupting the archer that makes me suck? Nah more like they need to overhaul the mechanics or netcode or something. I wanna know who really thinks assassins should have such busted range.

Yo devs, any official word on the busted melee range, do you feel this is really how it should be? Garroting from way out of expected melee range? I wouldn't care if you left other melee alone but assassins should not be able to have such busted melee range on an anytime snare. Cut the distance garrote can be used in half and make things more fair. They should literally have to be right next to you to use it IMO.

Sun 8 Sep 2019 12:32 AM by Makrist

Let me translate: Yo devs i wanna know why a melee class has melee range on their styles...cuz like...i dont like dying on a class when im clearly superior. Code must be changed to fix this imbalance, but only to classes that kill me. Ill update the list as we go and as i die so the code can be modified appropriately.

Melee range should be and is standard across all melee. It should not be based on your expectations of melee because you died in an RvR zone.

Sun 8 Sep 2019 12:53 AM by carlwinslow

Melee range should not be hitting people from caster range, that is me asking for them to make it more fair instead of just being food for assassins who can perma snare you from across the screen. How does that make me seem liek I am acting superior? Clearly the mechanics are busted. If you miss your PA and I am already kiting away and am already far out of expected melee range you should not be able to garrote me from across the screen. If you think you should be able to do that then I can't take you seriously. If anything you are the one acting like you are superior for trying to shut down someone who wants to make things more fair, lemme guess you enjoy spamming garrote from caster range?

Sun 8 Sep 2019 1:13 AM by Makrist

I dont care if you think you were out of "expected melee range" its apparent you were wrong and were in fact in actual melee range. The code didnt suddenly change just to screw you over. Its also clear you arent taking into account swing speed or reaction time to include possible server lag. Cap swing speed is 1.5 and its easy to hit. Your whining makes it clear you think its the fault of...how do you put it..."caster range melee range"? I laugh every time i read that..so thanks for that. This is the most ridiculous crap ive heard of and thats an impressive list to be at the top of. How about you just accept you died and quit bitc.ing. plenty of people do just fine with "caster range melee range" in its current form.

Sun 8 Sep 2019 1:16 AM by carlwinslow

How bad do you have to be to praise busted melee range, you must miss your perfs quite a bit.
Excuse me for wanting fair gameplay. And yet another nub on the forums exposes himself praising some bs cheese mechanics.

Sun 8 Sep 2019 1:27 AM by Makrist

Dont have an assassin, but i know one thing. There are usually a couple hundred players on at any given time, and you are literally the only one complaining about "caster range melee range". You arent even complaining about the style...but the range of melee attacks. Literally the dumbest complaint i have ever heard.

Yeah...apparently its just me, and a couple hundred or so other folks laughing at you quietly.

Sun 8 Sep 2019 1:29 AM by carlwinslow

Go ahead and laugh and I'll laugh right back at the fact that you think melee should be able to hit people across the screen, what a f'ing joke.

Sun 8 Sep 2019 6:10 AM by jelzinga_EU

Makrist wrote: ↑
Sun 8 Sep 2019 1:27 AM
Dont have an assassin, but i know one thing. There are usually a couple hundred players on at any given time, and you are literally the only one complaining about "caster range melee range". You arent even complaining about the style...but the range of melee attacks. Literally the dumbest complaint i have ever heard.

Yeah...apparently its just me, and a couple hundred or so other folks laughing at you quietly.

Pretty sure back in beta a lot of people mentioned melee-range was too high and there was a discussion about it. Most people adapted to it - but saying he's the only one complaining isn't true.

One of the stranger things happening with the melee on Phoenix compared to Live is the fact that it is pretty common for a PA to get your mainhand attacking but your offhand is out of range. I reckon this is caused by (some) styles getting improved range and your offhand not getting that benefit.

I did not mind the melee-range (being a melee) but I can imagine it is bugging non-melee classes.

Sun 8 Sep 2019 9:50 AM by gotwqqd

Server/client lag

Sun 8 Sep 2019 12:51 PM by

gruenesschaf

Too lazy to search the video that is usually linked when melee range comes up. Anyways, here an image from a different thread, that's pendragon:

The one in the back is a rooted warden, the one in the front is a druid, the ground target is 250 away from the druid. If the druid stands still nothing happens, if the druid moves (by strafing left / right) he is hit as seen in the image.

Sun 8 Sep 2019 2:30 PM by Makrist

If melee range has been adjusted here that is a discussion that is fair. What is not fair is to say "i was killed by an assassin garrote snare and all assassins should be changed....but everyone else seems ok."

Again i have not noticed a difference between any melee range reach on any character so whatever it is seems to be a standard.

EDIT: I tested this on my scout with a stationary dummy in Camelot HIlls. I set up with a /stick and then slowly backed off until I was no longer able to swing at the target because i was out of range. Then I dropped a ground target in increments of 5 until it was centered on the dummy. My maximum range to target when still in melee range appears to be 160 in game units. I thought i remembered at once time it was a standard 125 on Live, so if it was changed it was likely a change to the hitbox of the target. This would explain some of the weird things I have noticed as well such as side positional hitbox from what appears to be the front of the target firing. It doesn't seem like a drastic change, and again a discussion of what it should be is fair, but that discussion should involve all melee classes not just the one the OP died trying to kite. I personally don't have a problem with it as it currently is, and I lose to assassins plenty.

Sun 8 Sep 2019 8:24 PM by Cadebrennus

At this point it's just best to /ignore carlwinslow. He's got multiple whine threads going, which is evidence that he dies a lot, even to other, even shittier players.

Mon 9 Sep 2019 5:52 PM by carlwinslow

How wude.

Mon 9 Sep 2019 7:53 PM by chryso

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Sun 8 Sep 2019 8:24 PM
At this point it's just best to /ignore carlwinslow. He's got multiple whine threads going, which is evidence that he dies a lot, even to other, even shittier players.

He hasn't died to me so he's got that going for him.

Tue 10 Sep 2019 12:19 AM by Makrist

chryso wrote: ↑
Mon 9 Sep 2019 7:53 PM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Sun 8 Sep 2019 8:24 PM
At this point it's just best to /ignore carlwinslow. He's got multiple whine threads going, which is evidence that he dies a lot, even to other, even shittier players.

He hasn't died to me so he's got that going for him.

Yet...

Tue 10 Sep 2019 1:15 PM by Horus

If you get hit by a spell in the process of firing (even rapid fire) you will be interrupted and have have to wait 3 sec to fire again. However if you get hit by a spell, then try to fire w/rapid fire you will be able to get the shot off and swing the interrupt game to your favor... that is if the caster is slow and you can get your shot off before they cast again...or you get insta-ed or QC casted on.

So the difference between being interrupted or not is where in the firing process you are when the spell hits you.