Any Update On The Inter-Realm Gold Exchange?

It's been three weeks, you said the exchange "should" be available sometime around last week.

Is there any update on the ETA?

I know things take longer than announced sometimes, just curious about the current timeline.

Wed 21 Aug 2019 12:20 PM by

gruenesschaf

Will be in the next update, tomorrow.

Wed 21 Aug 2019 3:34 PM by ExcretusMaximus

Thank you.

Wed 21 Aug 2019 3:40 PM by Cadebrennus

I wonder if this will make the Hib market inflation a thing of the past?

Wed 21 Aug 2019 3:44 PM by Sepplord

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Wed 21 Aug 2019 3:40 PM
I wonder if this will make the Hib market inflation a thing of the past?

afaik the command will bring players together for a trade, it will not actually take money in one realm and create new money for that players account on the transfer-realm

A player wanting to buy gold in Albion will still need to find someone on albion side willing to give up his coins . Maybe the command will help with intrested people finding each other and then make the transaction for them, but at no point will a hibernian coin be able to be used in another realm

Wed 21 Aug 2019 4:03 PM by jelzinga_EU

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Wed 21 Aug 2019 3:44 PM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Wed 21 Aug 2019 3:40 PM
I wonder if this will make the Hib market inflation a thing of the past?

afaik the command will bring players together for a trade, it will not actually take money in one realm and create new money for that players account on the transfer-realm

A player wanting to buy gold in Albion will still need to find someone on albion side willing to give up his coins . Maybe the command will help with intrested people finding each other and then make the transaction for them, but at no point will a hibernian coin be able to be used in another realm

gruenesschaf wrote: Some more information regarding the gold trade between realms with the command, please note that this change will come after gold is shared for all characters per account and realm:

There will be zero interaction between players, the command will match trade orders automatically, there will be no indicator with whom you trade or what the current trade volume is. All gold you receive in a given realm will be made by a player in the given realm, that also means if there is nobody willing to fulfill your trade order it can take a while.

Players will be able to place trade orders, e. g. 10p from albion to midgard, doing so would instantly substract the 10 albion platin from your account.

Orders will be fulfilled automatically and also partially, in the above case if you are the only one with an alb -> midgard trade order and there weren't any midgard -> albion trade orders and now someone comes along and wants to trade 2 platin from midgard to albion your order would be partially fulfilled adding 2 migard platin to your account and reducing the offered albion platin according to the conversion rate.

On that note, there will be an automatic conversion rate in place that will update on server start and daily when the tasks reset and be based on the entire economy value of the realms, if for example hibernia contains 1.5x the gold of midgard then the conversion rate midgard -> hibernia would be 1.5 and hibernia -> midgard would be 0.6667. Yay for currency speculation in daoc.

You can cancel active trade orders at any time, but note that they may already have been fulfilled partially in which case you would receive only the remainder back.

taken from : https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10609#p79923

Wed 21 Aug 2019 4:18 PM by Sepplord

thanks a lot, i missed that announcement with the specifics. I only remembered a vague comment of gruenes claiming that the economies will not be getting mixed.

this Solution sounds awesome

Wed 21 Aug 2019 6:29 PM by gotwqqd

What’s the reasoning for not having a 1to1 gold exchange rate ? I’d rather he one sides gold being devalued

Wed 21 Aug 2019 6:45 PM by ExcretusMaximus

gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Wed 21 Aug 2019 6:29 PM
What’s the reasoning for not having a 1to1 gold exchange rate ? I’d rather he one sides gold being devalued

To keep people from going to Hibernia and farming 100p in the time it takes the other realms to farm 20, and then inflating the other realms' economies like Hibernia's has been.

Wed 21 Aug 2019 6:52 PM by romulus

ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Wed 21 Aug 2019 6:45 PM
gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Wed 21 Aug 2019 6:29 PM
What’s the reasoning for not having a 1to1 gold exchange rate ? I’d rather he one sides gold being devalued
To keep people from going to Hibernia and farming 100p in the time it takes the other realms to farm 20, and then inflating the other realms' economies like Hibernia's has been.

This wouldn't happen even with a 1:1 exchange rate because the 100p in hib never leaves hib. It just goes to someone else in hib that wants to trade gold from the other realm. No gold from one realm transfers to the other realm. AFAICT the exchange rate is just to serve as a gold sink (incentive) to normalize the economies across realms.

Wed 21 Aug 2019 7:05 PM by ExcretusMaximus

romulus wrote: ↑
Wed 21 Aug 2019 6:52 PM
This wouldn't happen even with a 1:1 exchange rate because the 100p in hib never leaves hib. It just goes to someone else in hib that wants to trade gold from the other realm. No gold from one realm transfers to the other realm.

That makes absolutely no sense.

Wed 21 Aug 2019 7:11 PM by romulus

Edit: corrected example
Edit: made the examples a little clearer.

It's probably better to think of the new feature as a trading match-maker. A simple example should illustrate the idea.

Assume a 1:1 exchange rate for simplicity.
I want to trade 100p from Hib-2-Mid, and so I enter the command to trade 100p Hib-2-mid and then I wait.
Another player wants to trade 50p from Mid-2-Hib, so they enter the command to trade 50p Mid-2-Hib.
The exchange service fulfills as much of the orders as it can. In this case:
50p from my Hib pool goes to the other players Hib pool.
50p from his Mid pool goes into my Mid pool.
His order is complete (50p Hib-2-Mid), while the remainder of my order (50p Hib-2-Mid) will stay open until another order comes along, or I cancel the remainder of my order.

While it looks like gold has moved from realm to realm, it simply moved from one player's gold pool into another players gold pool in the same realm, so there is no economic change since the total amount of gold in each realm is unchanged.

An exchange rate slightly changes the example by scaling the amount of gold that is transferred between pools. Assume the following example:

Exchange rate 2:1 Hib:Mid
I want to trade 100p Hib-2-Mid.
Another player wants to trade 100p Mid-2-Hib.
Exchange service takes 100p from my Hib pool and inserts 100p (2:1 rate) into the other players Hib pool.
Exchange service takes 50p from the other players Mid pool and inserts it into my Mid pool.
At the end of the transaction:
My pools (Hib -100p, Mid +50p); my order is fulfilled.
Other player pools (Hib +100p, Mid -50p); still has a 50p Mid-2-Hib partial order remaining.

Same as before, no gold moved between realms and no gold has been created or destroyed. I have 50p less on my account after the trade, while the other player has 50p more on his account.

Make sense?

Wed 21 Aug 2019 8:58 PM by

gruenesschaf

The exchange rate won't actually equalize the economies, it's just meant to kind of reflect the spending power of a given currency in relation to another realm.

The actual exchange rates as of right now would be as follows and I doubt there will be large shifts any time soon as we'll, at least to start with, look at the entire economy and not just the last x days:

Alb -> Mid: 1.0734
Alb -> Hib: 1.2465

Mid -> Alb: 0.9315
Mid -> Hib: 1.1612

Hib -> Alb: 0.8021
Hib -> Mid: 0.8611

That means if you were to offer 100p in hib and want alb plat, your 100 hib plat would go to someone who wanted to trade 80.21 plat from alb to hib. Offering 100 alb plat for mid plat would give you 107 plat in mid and offering 100 mid plat for hib plat would give you 116.12 hib plat, all of these still require an opposite trade order meaning there is no gold generated or destroyed (ignoring some rounded copper).

Wed 21 Aug 2019 11:16 PM by Pops999

I have plat on all three realms, can I trade with myself? How are trades prioritized?

Thu 22 Aug 2019 12:36 AM by ExcretusMaximus

romulus wrote: ↑
Wed 21 Aug 2019 7:11 PM
Make sense?

Yeah, I don't know why I wasn't grasping it to begin with.

Thanks.

Thu 22 Aug 2019 6:17 AM by Sepplord

romulus wrote: ↑
Wed 21 Aug 2019 7:11 PM
[...]

makes completely sense, but the reason for a conversion rate is that a 1to1 trade would in some cases be a bad deal for one side of the deal.

That would lead to two scenarios:

a) noone would accept the bad deal on the side that has the lower amount of gold in their economy (Aka their gold has more purchasing power)

b) uninformed people would trade their gold unknowingly making a bad deal and then log into their new realm noticing that their purchasing power has decreased heavily

Looking at the conversion rates gruenes has posted it looks like the economies are much closer together though. From the stories in the forums i was expecting much higher factors for hibernian gold, but it seems in total the amounts of riches amassed in each realm are closer to each other than it seemed. (Could be for several reasons, exxaggerrations on the forums is very likely, but also different hoarding habits can play into this. Maybe the gold in hibernia is also just spread out more, while in midgard it's stashed away in the pockets of a few, that don't use it though and therefor it is not driving up prices...etc...)

Thu 22 Aug 2019 11:01 AM by Keelia

People have a miss understanding on animist farming. Since the salvage nerf you aren’t farming 15p an hour like people seem to think. The issue is it’s stupid easy to farm on a animist. You stand in one spot and click 1 button. To be honest I can farm plat faster on my sight necro than I can in my animist. I can farm like 2-3p an hour on my necro if I get good drops. I could farm just as much plat on say my mentalist as I could my animist, I would actually have to put effort into farming on my mentalist.

Thu 22 Aug 2019 12:08 PM by Sepplord

Keelia wrote: ↑
Thu 22 Aug 2019 11:01 AM
People have a miss understanding on animist farming. Since the salvage nerf you aren’t farming 15p an hour like people seem to think. The issue is it’s stupid easy to farm on a animist. You stand in one spot and click 1 button. To be honest I can farm plat faster on my sight necro than I can in my animist. I can farm like 2-3p an hour on my necro if I get good drops. I could farm just as much plat on say my mentalist as I could my animist, I would actually have to put effort into farming on my mentalist.

Yeah, but that leads to people "afk"-farming more in hibernia, since you can easily do it by just pressing a few button now and then, while you watch TV or even play a different game. The impact on the economy is still there.
Main reason that i personally thought the economies would be further apart was that i have seen people writing here that 5k feathers cost 2plat in hib, when at that time it was 1plat in midgard. Or that TG-Vest are sold for 8plat instead of 4-5.

How are prices now in Hib? Just curious

Differences could very well have other reasons too...with more raids feathers are maybe just more abundant in midgard.

Thu 22 Aug 2019 1:51 PM by Sleepwell

I know that the rate is supposed to be floating. I guess the part that will have to be determined is how big the difference is. Is the conversion rate going to go off of an average or off of the current /u ratio? There are times when the realms are fairly equal when it comes to gold %, feather % and xp %. There are also times when the % is 10-15%. I can only assume that it will be an average, but who knows.

Additionally:

I still hear people discussing 20k feathers on hib for 7p.

On mid you can still buy 20k for 4-5 plat, so there is still a slight difference.

Thu 22 Aug 2019 2:57 PM by chryso

Didn't it say it would be adjusted on server restart and when the task changes every day?

Thu 22 Aug 2019 3:44 PM by Ashok

Sleepwell wrote: ↑
Thu 22 Aug 2019 1:51 PM
I know that the rate is supposed to be floating. I guess the part that will have to be determined is how big the difference is. Is the conversion rate going to go off of an average or off of the current /u ratio? There are times when the realms are fairly equal when it comes to gold %, feather % and xp %.

The FX-rate is based on the realms economy (aka currency value) and does not have any link to the underpop bonuses.
But as schaf said, right now it's based on it's total economy (=since launch) and not on recent value (=last X days).

Thu 22 Aug 2019 3:55 PM by Topenga

Does the realm transfer work instantly given that there is money in the certain pool?
Or as stated on discord: It would be also nice to know if there is some kind of queue...
worst case is you place lets say 10p in a certain realm where lots of money has been
traded from recently and you wait...and wait...and wait...like forever...
Or maybe I just don't understand the system

Thu 22 Aug 2019 4:53 PM by

gruenesschaf

Topenga wrote: ↑
Thu 22 Aug 2019 3:55 PM
Does the realm transfer work instantly given that there is money in the certain pool?
Or as stated on discord: It would be also nice to know if there is some kind of queue...
worst case is you place lets say 10p in a certain realm where lots of money has been
traded from recently and you wait...and wait...and wait...like forever...
Or maybe I just don't understand the system

First come first served. If lots of people want to trade from one realm to another, or well a high volume, but there aren't enough trade orders the other way around it can take a while. The other side in such a scenario would always have instant transfers.

Thu 22 Aug 2019 5:03 PM by Boltman

Can this command be used from any realm? Say I play mid, can I transfer from my albs to my mids or do I have to wait 12 hours and log in the albs to use the transfer command?

Thu 22 Aug 2019 5:11 PM by Topenga

no, realm doesn't matter

/tradeorder exchangerate
/tradeorder current
/tradeorder cancel
/tradeorder place <source> <target> <amount>

for example /tradeorder place mid hib 10p

and like I said it doesnt matter which realm you are logged in while placing the order