Enable 5-man only (except for EV) when population is low

This change would allow people to always have option to 8-man, but otherwise the group cap size would diminish to 5-man during low population periods, allowing more groups to assemble competitively.

Reason: It's becoming increasingly hard to find decent fights in NA time. It's zerg, or 8-man, and it's leaving me with little fun to be had, despite spending hours searching for fights.

Wed 21 Aug 2019 6:16 AM by gotwqqd

What?????

Wed 21 Aug 2019 6:50 AM by Sepplord

for me personally the server could have launched with a permanent 5man cap

but my personal preference aside, i am not sure if this wouldn't ruin it for far more people than it would benefit.
Groups that have found each other and regularly run at low pop times would suddenly have the problem of whom to not take, and the realm balance is also completely shifted with the smaller setup, so that would also be something that would need consideration.

Wed 21 Aug 2019 9:23 AM by Turano

and only 8 groups per BG!
Then we can have 40 man molten core raids!! .. wait

Wed 21 Aug 2019 11:13 AM by elninost0rm

What if my 8-man wants to run during a non-peak time? Guess we need to break into two separate Discord channels and run some hodgepodge 2-group setup? Otherwise, we just don't play?

No thanks.

Wed 21 Aug 2019 2:25 PM by Isavyr

elninost0rm wrote: ↑
Wed 21 Aug 2019 11:13 AM
What if my 8-man wants to run during a non-peak time? Guess we need to break into two separate Discord channels and run some hodgepodge 2-group setup? Otherwise, we just don't play?

No thanks.

There would still be 8-man action in EV, as mentioned in the thread title. The idea isn't to remove it from the game-mode, but only remove it for most zones when there aren't many people online. In this case, you would have to decide whether you want to build 5, and compete with theoretically more groups, or stick to your 8, and see if any other 8-mans are in EV.

Wed 21 Aug 2019 3:04 PM by elninost0rm

Isavyr wrote: ↑
Wed 21 Aug 2019 2:25 PM
elninost0rm wrote: ↑
Wed 21 Aug 2019 11:13 AM
What if my 8-man wants to run during a non-peak time? Guess we need to break into two separate Discord channels and run some hodgepodge 2-group setup? Otherwise, we just don't play?

No thanks.

There would still be 8-man action in EV, as mentioned in the thread title. The idea isn't to remove it from the game-mode, but only remove it for most zones when there aren't many people online. In this case, you would have to decide whether you want to build 5, and compete with theoretically more groups, or stick to your 8, and see if any other 8-mans are in EV.

No, I'm okay, thanks. This is DAoC. Any number of grouped players within the original allowance of 8 should be able to group up at any time, anywhere, just as a zerg of 9+ should be able to form up and kill whatever they like, anytime, anywhere.

Do not support overly catering to your ability to find fair fights.

Wed 21 Aug 2019 3:26 PM by gotwqqd

Isavyr wrote: ↑
Wed 21 Aug 2019 2:25 PM
elninost0rm wrote: ↑
Wed 21 Aug 2019 11:13 AM
What if my 8-man wants to run during a non-peak time? Guess we need to break into two separate Discord channels and run some hodgepodge 2-group setup? Otherwise, we just don't play?

No thanks.

There would still be 8-man action in EV, as mentioned in the thread title. The idea isn't to remove it from the game-mode, but only remove it for most zones when there aren't many people online. In this case, you would have to decide whether you want to build 5, and compete with theoretically more groups, or stick to your 8, and see if any other 8-mans are in EV.

So what’s the point? Being able to have your cozy 5v5 outside of EV?

Wed 21 Aug 2019 3:30 PM by Isavyr

gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Wed 21 Aug 2019 3:26 PM
So what’s the point? Being able to have your cozy 5v5 outside of EV?

I believe that dropping the maximum number of players per group will allow more groups to form, which will create more action. This is a plan of survival. NA RvR is becoming quite weak/fragile. On any night, no more than two to three 8-mans are running, and otherwise it's mostly zerg. This is leaving a lot of players out of the loop, and those that log in are finding themselves with fewer things to do.

I believe serious thought needs to be given to allowing the system to thrive in low population periods. If you have ideas to address the low population NA periods, please write them.

Wed 21 Aug 2019 3:39 PM by Isavyr

elninost0rm wrote: ↑
Wed 21 Aug 2019 3:04 PM
No, I'm okay, thanks. This is DAoC.

Well, this logic doesn't really mean anything. DAOC classic is totally unoptimized and will always die without serious changes. We saw this on release. The RvR exploded once tasks were created. Or was that also a bad idea because that wasn't DAOC?

elninost0rm wrote: ↑
Wed 21 Aug 2019 3:04 PM
Do not support overly catering to your ability to find fair fights.

The idea is not to create fair fights, but make it manageable for greater number of groups to enter RvR, and therefore increase the total amount of participation in RvR. It's an untested hypothesis and I'm open for discussion on other ideas to make low-population time periods more active across all play types.

As I mentioned in above post, no more than three 8-mans are running in NA time, and lately it's been 1 or 2 only. That's ~16 players dictating the group size for 100-150 players. I want to protect this game-type, which I love and engage in myself, but I also want to see all players have access to an avenue that is fun/productive for them. Lowering group size appears to be an easy way to accomplish that.

Wed 21 Aug 2019 6:14 PM by gotwqqd

-“therefore increase the total amount of participation in RvR”

You mean decrease the population decline don’t you?

Thu 22 Aug 2019 1:21 PM by elninost0rm

Isavyr wrote: ↑
Wed 21 Aug 2019 3:39 PM
elninost0rm wrote: ↑
Wed 21 Aug 2019 3:04 PM
No, I'm okay, thanks. This is DAoC.

Well, this logic doesn't really mean anything. DAOC classic is totally unoptimized and will always die without serious changes. We saw this on release. The RvR exploded once tasks were created. Or was that also a bad idea because that wasn't DAOC?

elninost0rm wrote: ↑
Wed 21 Aug 2019 3:04 PM
Do not support overly catering to your ability to find fair fights.

The idea is not to create fair fights, but make it manageable for greater number of groups to enter RvR, and therefore increase the total amount of participation in RvR. It's an untested hypothesis and I'm open for discussion on other ideas to make low-population time periods more active across all play types.

As I mentioned in above post, no more than three 8-mans are running in NA time, and lately it's been 1 or 2 only. That's ~16 players dictating the group size for 100-150 players. I want to protect this game-type, which I love and engage in myself, but I also want to see all players have access to an avenue that is fun/productive for them. Lowering group size appears to be an easy way to accomplish that.

False equivalence on tasks since that does not really DETRIMENT anyone or any particular group. Limiting the group size obviously does.

Changing the group size artificially after 18-odd years doesn't really make much sense. Yes, DAoC "always dies," but so does everything. Game is old.

Since the extent of my input as a player is usually yes or no, no.

Good luck with your hypothesis.

Thu 22 Aug 2019 6:58 PM by Aph

Sounds like a great event - perhaps in OF

Fri 23 Aug 2019 7:18 PM by Ebenezer

5man isn't fair to all 3 realms. Abilities aren't distributed evenly between classes as you shift realms.
Spd, Endo, primary mezz, primary healer, backup healer/basebuffer, spec buffs.

You can do that with 2 hibs. it takes all 5 slots for albs.

And then there are all the other things you'd like to have. Disease, NS, SOS, a snaretank, etc...

Sun 25 Aug 2019 1:34 AM by Isavyr

Ebenezer wrote: ↑
Fri 23 Aug 2019 7:18 PM
5man isn't fair to all 3 realms. Abilities aren't distributed evenly between classes as you shift realms.
Spd, Endo, primary mezz, primary healer, backup healer/basebuffer, spec buffs.

You can do that with 2 hibs. it takes all 5 slots for albs.

And then there are all the other things you'd like to have. Disease, NS, SOS, a snaretank, etc...

Can you give an example? Having played all 3 realms, I feel that all realms can build very competitive 5-man setups. I suspect it's actually less of an issue than 8-man, where you can get cheesy 3-healer Mid setups, or 5-caster Alb groups.