A few things to look at - Phoenix Freeshard

So having played a little over a month since beta started, here are a few things I think staff should look at...

Classes that need...something -
Friar
Paladin
Champion

Having played Hib for a few weeks and alb for a little over a week, these classes are the main ones that people now just seem to shrug off.

Playing yesterday I saw one group asking for a friar and it was because they wanted another healer and wanted the bonus 5% xp. Every other group I have been in leaves friars out when talking about what classes to look for. The one argument that they are decent is because they have red resist buffs?

Paladins, wow. Three consecutive groups in the 20+ range all ran without pally's and when I asked about it I was given a green endo regen pot. Armsman had very mixed reviews but in general people said just get a Merc they offer a lot more then Pally's.

Champion. I thought Champ's would be more sought after, but after hitting 50 on one toon and 49 on another toon in Hib and doing some RvR, none of the groups I was in ever even asked about the Champ's that were LFG. Even my Ani was more sought after then the Champs. This was over a 2 week period and not just a 1 day of test. Are Champ's really not helpful or are people just not used to them being decentish?

Necro's are obviously great at PvE, but what is up with the resists? I was fighting yellows yesterday. Resists said they should be 11.50% and 13% and I was being resisted at LEAST 25% of the time. I logged to my Cabby who was about 4 levels higher and his resist rate was actually what the game listed. I went back to necro and fought yellows again to the same exact result. Either I had the worst RNG ever (possible and I will try again tonight) or something is off and needs looked at. If any other Necro's could post their experiences on this that would be great.

Your speed breaking system is a good start but I do see 1 severe flaw, speed needs to break instantly and not wait a few seconds. Don't know how many times I was in a group on Hib and we would use a speed breaking spell only to see them continue at full speed for a few more seconds before it broke. If this is WAI then it should be looked at, and if it is something you already fixed in the last few days then ignore this =).

How drops are divided still seems off. On any pet class I have played including Ani, Enchie, Cabby I notice that if I let the pet do all the dmg (meaning just casting a shroom field on Ani, or focus pulling on enchie or cabby) and I don't directly dmg them, I rarely get any drops. I was a lvl 50 Ani who had a lvl 15 NS pulling for me and he was getting about 90% of the drops, but as soon as I did 1 AoE I got most of the drops.

Lastly, and people are going to flame me for this, RP's need looked at for both events as well as how quickly people will get early when the game goes live. A friend got around 300k RP's last night playing Mid in a few hours during the event. Seems a little excessive for such a short time, plus this will just widen the gap between the elite groups and the casual groups. Obviously the elite groups will get more RP's then a casual, but he was lvl 10 2 days ago, this is just something to look at. I am not saying put a limit, but SOMETHING needs to be done or else you will have a couple elite 8mans dominating in RvR beyond normal. I understand people will argue that those same 8mans will dominate anyway and that is true to a degree, but if this keeps up they will simply become almost unkillable which will just frustrate a lot of people. Uth2 is changing their system and Origins is still (possibly?) due to release, if they get much frustration over something like this you honestly don't think they will leave to another server and try again? yes it may happen there also, or that server might do something about it, but it is doubtful they will come back here if they are that far behind. Or they may simply not go out into big boy RvR.

Anyway see everyone in game =)

P.S. Fix the guards in TNN!!!! Typing /where has them point 1 direction and yet say the opposite direction only to have the person I was after in a totally different direction LOL. Tried multiple guards on multiple toons to same result.

Sun 12 Aug 2018 6:19 PM by Rabbitstew

I'm not too experienced with Champions at this point so I can't comment on them, but Friars and Paladins seriously need some love if they're to see any real use on Phoenix. Albion is restrictive in its group-building, which means every member needs to have a purpose and be very good at it. In my eyes, every "top-tier" Alb group will have, as a base requirement, this setup:

[Cleric] , [Cleric] , [Sorc] , [Mins] = 4 slots, hands-down required, non-negotiable

(optional, but heavily encouraged and nearly required)
+ [Theurg] , [Cabby] = 6 slots

These listed classes on Alb are either extremely good at what they do, or have extreme utility. They make the foundation of the group, and a firm one at that. Sadly, this structure only leaves 2 slots open for others, and its those slots that all the other classes have to squabble over. This is where Paladins and Friars fall short, as they don't offer enough to warrant a spot compared to all the other Alb classes vying for those limited slots.

Paladins - Hybrid-like tank, whose main purpose before was being a defensive endo bot. Now, with the change to Tireless and plentiful endo potions, they are just a defensive tank. Outside that, almost everything they can do, others can do better - and what they are best at doesn't matter much in RvR (or even PvE to an extent). It's a really sad fact that a single potion and a few RPs can replace the need for your class. As I see it, I think they'll only be seen in RvR as a novelty or intentional gimping for more gloating rights after a win.

Friars - Hybrid-like support, but their support is very selfish in design, which hurts their viability as an actual support character. Many of their Enhancement buffs are Self-Only, so the majority of them don't affect their allies. They are melee-focused (only 1 taunt ability as ranged interrupt), and can do decent damage with their staff, but that puts them in melee range which makes them very interruptible. Their damage is worse than a damage-focused class, and their heals are worse than a heal-focused class. They are a hybrid, so this is expected, but they don't bring much else to the table that is useful in a group setting. It's really hard to justify bringing them for 1 of those 2 last slots.

Sun 12 Aug 2018 6:50 PM by Quik

Any Albs or Mids got any honest open reviews of what it is like facing Champs? Would love to hear if you worry about them or do you focus on other classes first?

Sun 12 Aug 2018 7:54 PM by Sarerishor

Back in the day on live we held some 1v1 tournaments where you couldn't use a buffbot, and one of the better classes was always Champion. Even as a Reaver, I had trouble with several Champions on Lancelot in those duels. However, outside of those, Champions didn't seem to ever show up. I can't recall fighting any in an 8v8, and maybe I saw one in some bigger zerg battles. Champions, Thanes, and Reavers (Mentalists, Valewalkers, and Friars also boned) were always ignored for groups unless you had a set group--for Reaver, at least because we could Reaver bomb in NF.

On Phoenix, since there are buff pots, all classes that have self buffs are at an inherent disadvantage. Their class advantage has been nullified by the buff pots. Why would anyone run a Champion over a Hero here? I don't know, and that's a little sad to me. I wish hybrids had more of a chance beyond "don't worry, you get det".

EDIT: Wardens also probably belong on this short list of neglected classes. Wardens and Friars add the alternate resists, but without the ToA MLs, they're not BG bots either, so it's more beneficial to group several other classes.

Sun 12 Aug 2018 8:04 PM by Quik

Sarerishor wrote: ↑
Sun 12 Aug 2018 7:54 PM
Back in the day on live we held some 1v1 tournaments where you couldn't use a buffbot, and one of the better classes was always Champion. Even as a Reaver, I had trouble with several Champions on Lancelot in those duels. However, outside of those, Champions didn't seem to ever show up. I can't recall fighting any in an 8v8, and maybe I saw one in some bigger zerg battles. Champions, Thanes, and Reavers (Mentalists, Valewalkers, and Friars also boned) were always ignored for groups unless you had a set group--for Reaver, at least because we could Reaver bomb in NF.

On Phoenix, since there are buff pots, all classes that have self buffs are at an inherent disadvantage. Their class advantage has been nullified by the buff pots. Why would anyone run a Champion over a Hero here? I don't know, and that's a little sad to me. I wish hybrids had more of a chance beyond "don't worry, you get det".

This is the issue I see.

Right now Mids have Warriors, Zerkers, and Savages and all will be in RvR a lot.

Alb has Merc and Reaver and some Armsmen although I don't see many Armsmen really.

Hib has Hero and BM and really I don't see a lot of Hero's mainly BM's. I do see some VW's but VW's hit like mac trucks.

just getting Det is not helping the hybrids much it doesn't seem. Thanes, Friars, Champions still seem to be pushed to the side and I wonder if there is anything to help them a long. Give them something that helps them.

Sun 12 Aug 2018 8:05 PM by Sarerishor

Adding edit here since it occured after Quik's reply.

Wardens also probably belong on this short list of neglected classes. Wardens and Friars add the alternate resists, but without the ToA MLs, they're not BG bots either, so it's more beneficial to group several other classes.

Sun 12 Aug 2018 8:11 PM by Sarerishor

I'm not going to lie, I wish that the buff pots were limited to green (maybe blue? convince me) status at max. Too many classes have specs/skills related to having these as advantages, and when that advantage is provided to classes that don't have to spec for it (their class' spec lines don't incorporate those as part of the spec as a whole), it's almost like just having buffbots in the game again.

Sun 12 Aug 2018 9:00 PM by Quik

Sarerishor wrote: ↑
Sun 12 Aug 2018 8:11 PM
I'm not going to lie, I wish that the buff pots were limited to green (maybe blue? convince me) status at max. Too many classes have specs/skills related to having these as advantages, and when that advantage is provided to classes that don't have to spec for it (their class' spec lines don't incorporate those as part of the spec as a whole), it's almost like just having buffbots in the game again.

I have been saying this since day 1. All pots should be limited to green status. Pot should NEVER replace a class that adds that ability. Pally is classic example of this.

Yes I understand that people like pots so they can solo, but the issue is that Scouts have a few advantages over hunter/ranger which is why hunters/rangers get a line with some buffs. Since scouts can drink a pot to achieve some of these buffs, why don't rangers/hunters get a pot that allows then slam with shield? yes it is extreme and won't happen but my point is, you take away from classes that can self buff by allowing pots to everyone. Savages/Zerkers can now self buff making them more viable then the classes that have self buffs in their spell lines.

Just because soloers want pots to make them better, by doing that you hurt the classes that should be getting these and not others.

Mon 13 Aug 2018 1:52 PM by colechar

Correct me if I'm wrong, but by spending 2 RA points (tireless, long wind) and using an invigorating draught, any class can perma-sprint. That just doesn't seem right. Maybe I'm biased because my main is a shaman, rolled specifically to be able to kite enemies.

Mon 13 Aug 2018 2:20 PM by Sarerishor

colechar wrote: ↑
Mon 13 Aug 2018 1:52 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but by spending 2 RA points (tireless, long wind) and using an invigorating draught, any class can perma-sprint. That just doesn't seem right. Maybe I'm biased because my main is a shaman, rolled specifically to be able to kite enemies.

You are correct.

Mon 13 Aug 2018 2:50 PM by relvinian

Pots should probably be limited to lower levels.

Mon 13 Aug 2018 7:12 PM by Quik

colechar wrote: ↑
Mon 13 Aug 2018 1:52 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but by spending 2 RA points (tireless, long wind) and using an invigorating draught, any class can perma-sprint. That just doesn't seem right. Maybe I'm biased because my main is a shaman, rolled specifically to be able to kite enemies.

This is why I think pots should be limited to green, although with LW1 and Tireless1 even a green endo regen pot gives a VERY long sprint duration.

The Omnipots are way OP IMHO and even blue are too much.

Not sure why every server wants to cater to soloers so much that they are willing to kill off the usefulness of multiple classes...

Mon 13 Aug 2018 7:51 PM by heardstheword

Quik wrote: ↑
Mon 13 Aug 2018 7:12 PM
Not sure why every server wants to cater to soloers so much that they are willing to kill off the usefulness of multiple classes...

I keep seeing this argument.

Outside of Paladin (which has its own issues that is not solely endo chant), which class is being replaced by buff pots?

It's not happening nearly as much as everyone seems to think it is, if at all. I constantly see people search for Shams/healer for RvR and PvE on the Midgard side, and I'm sure it's the same for clerics/bards/druids

Mon 13 Aug 2018 7:54 PM by Rabbitstew

I'm unsure if limiting the level of buff potions allowed will fix this issue when it comes to some of the unpopular classes. Some (looking at Friars/Paladins) are unpopular because they don't offer anything that the "standard group setups" need or haven't already covered. The current design of the class itself is simply lacking synergy.

While I agree that buff pots or charges could be knocked down a peg or two, it won't solve the inherent issue with the underplayed classes.

Mon 13 Aug 2018 8:55 PM by Laadna

Quik wrote: ↑
Sun 12 Aug 2018 6:50 PM
Any Albs or Mids got any honest open reviews of what it is like facing Champs? Would love to hear if you worry about them or do you focus on other classes first?

I play an augmentation healer. Champions are like any other hybrids to me : way more annoying than a tank because even if i manage to put some distance, I will still be interrupted as long as I am his or her target. And champions have plenty of interrupts available.

heardstheword wrote: ↑
Mon 13 Aug 2018 7:51 PM
Outside of Paladin (which has its own issues that is not solely endo chant), which class is being replaced by buff pots?

In my opinion, the question is not who is being replaced, but who is being weakened. And the answer is : in solo or smallman setup, self-buff classes (friar, here you come again) and people who do not want or cannot buy or craft those pots. This is an arms race issue and I do not think it is a good thing.

As for shamans, they have plenty of other tools to be mandatory in any decent Midgard full group and I have not seen people willing to run without one if they can get one. I do not see the issue with kiting though, as you cannot craft a cure disease potion...

Mon 13 Aug 2018 8:58 PM by Quik

Laadna wrote: ↑
Mon 13 Aug 2018 8:55 PM
In my opinion, the question is not who is being replaced, but who is being weakened. And the answer is : in solo or smallman setup, self-buff classes (friar, here you comes again) and people who do not want or cannot buy or craft those pots. This is an arms race issue and I do not think it is a good thing.

This is one of my issues.

Rangers/Hunters were given self buffs to compete against scouts and such who had an edge in the bows and slam. By allowing Scouts to have that edge PLUS buff pots seems incredibly unfair to rangers/hunters. Shouldn't they get a potion that allows shield use?