a Light DS with lower drops - Phoenix Freeshard

It is very hard to get a DS group for lot of people on hibernia. a solution would be to add an easier version as a slower farming option
it would drop like 3 - 4k feather instead and take same amount of time. and could be completed with non meta class and like 5 people, it does not mater if it take 35 minutes. people would gladly farm it. just use the same mobs but with lower attack and 30 % less hp. so people can learn a bit the instance before going to the "Elite" version

here are the requirement for DS right now
-need to have experience,
-need to be templated
-need to have very specific class & specialisation
-cant be afk one minute during the run
-need to be online at the correct time, which is hard from europe timezone
-need to not wipe once, else people will rage quit.

if all of the above are successful then you may have a chance to do the instance.

please consider this as a preventive action before everyone left hibernia

Tue 30 Jul 2019 5:40 AM by leastofthem

Hear hear...

Trying to get into a DS run or even starting one is nigh impossible on Hib if you're not experienced.

I just want to get some feathers man.

Tue 30 Jul 2019 7:24 AM by chewchew

Hi, you will be able to get some feathers, dont worry and dont give up!

ddelmarle wrote: ↑
Tue 30 Jul 2019 5:29 AM
-need to have experience,
-need to be templated

That is the intended design of DS as high-end PvE instance.
For feather gain with less experienced and untemplated players there are still other options for feathers: DF, CF-boss-mobs, RvR

ddelmarle wrote: ↑
Tue 30 Jul 2019 5:29 AM
-need to have very specific class & specialisation
-cant be afk one minute during the run
-need to be online at the correct time, which is hard from europe timezone
-need to not wipe once, else people will rage quit.

That are requirements by people who build DS-groups and lead the runs.
But you can just go ahead and build your own DS-groups! There are many guides out describing in detail what the tactics inside there are.
Start with some friends, and then fill up with /lfg. Make sure to advertise that your group is new to DS and has the feather-bonus for newcomers.
So you may attract a few experienced DS-runners, who can help you out with tactics.

Tue 30 Jul 2019 11:42 AM by elninost0rm

Chinoise, I don't disagree with you, but I was in the same boat as you up until recently when I started forming my own groups. This is Traurig / Eldritch, and I've run with you a few times. You probably know the instance well enough to form your own group as I have. Usually you'll see 3-4 people at any given time LF DS groups, and a lot more will show up once they know you're at 4/8 or 5/8 to fill the holes.

I do think there should be a DS Jr. instance in which everything is nerfed, including feather drop rates (even dramatically nerf the feather rate if you want) so that people can familiarize with the mechanic before jumping into the high-end DS, or just farm the Jr. version indefinitely. Make them commit more time to do it, but achieve a similar result if they're willing to grind. Reducing some of the lazy DPS check mechanics (first boss comes to mind) would go a long way. Personally I think the DPS check of the first boss has no place in the instance and basically forces you into running a very specific class composition, at least on Hib. Flexibility and communication should always win out over some sort of forced meta.

I have noticed an issue with some Euro players having little to no patience because some of them seem to farm the thing for hours and hours a day, and any tiny loss in efficiency means rage quitting from the group, sometimes halfway through or more, leaving the rest of the group high and dry to look for a rep. This kind of behavior is toxic and a net-negative for the community in the long run, but "gotta go fast," I guess. Nothing against Euros specifically, but it's something I've noticed anecdotally so far.

Tue 30 Jul 2019 12:21 PM by ddelmarle

you are right, the run i did with you was the first one that went to the end.

my problem with the actual instance is that the population on hib is getting lower, could not find a group at all yesterday. im afraid it will be worst weeks after weeks, to a point where new players will all have to run instance with new players.

Tue 30 Jul 2019 1:46 PM by elninost0rm

ddelmarle wrote: ↑
Tue 30 Jul 2019 12:21 PM
you are right, the run i did with you was the first one that went to the end.

my problem with the actual instance is that the population on hib is getting lower, could not find a group at all yesterday. im afraid it will be worst weeks after weeks, to a point where new players will all have to run instance with new players.

Yeah they'll have to tune the instances based on population. No doubt about that one. Live didn't do that for a long time and the players suffered as a result.

Tue 30 Jul 2019 2:27 PM by cere2

https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?p=77161#p77161

That is a response I gave back in June.
I made a lvl 50 Hero since then and still have not done a DS run. Hard to template new toon if you don't have feathers to begin with.
So not templated...not wanted. Secondly, haven't done DS yet...once again not wanted.

The solution to this is so simple. Why they refuse to allow casuals to compete is beyond me.
I have posted other remarks about this but never once a response.
I dig the server, but sometimes I just see the same mistakes happening.

Curse campaign on live was a disaster. Then after years they finally fixed end game gear with BP merchants. Now you can farm BP's and gear up....they just waited too long until people got fed up and bailed.

I hope that doesn't happen here.

Tue 30 Jul 2019 6:13 PM by ddelmarle

same problem, did 2 attempt yesterday, first group 2 people never did the instance, wiped on first pack, everyone disband
second group just now 3 people never did instance with same result as previously, this is really annoying, spend like 5 hours to earn 120 feathers

Tue 30 Jul 2019 7:33 PM by Aincrad

I ran a DS group with my brothers the other day on hib and we had a number of people that have never done it before and we did a good job for having a lot of new people (only wiped 3 times). When we have some time, my bros and I will occasionally run a DS group and invite people who have never done it before. So if you ever see myself looking for people for DS send me a tell. What we look for in our groups is below. We definitely do not require being temped, but it is nice if you are as it makes it easier for the healers.

1 Hero - My brother (Morsio)
1 Bard - Myself (Aincrad)
1 Druid - My brother (Peasant)
1 Void Eld - random
4x arb ani - random

Most of the "difficult" classes of the dungeon are already filled. We prefer new people that have never done DS before so they can learn it and learn the mechanics of it. We just started doing this and do not have a ton of time as we have families, but people are welcome to join if you ever see us looking for more for DS.

Wed 31 Jul 2019 1:51 PM by Bobbahunter

Hey guys

I cant speak for HIB but even in Mid you don'e HAVE / NEED to be fully tempted if your not the tank, if you use a tank class in hib?? But I've ran with people in sub epic armor. The healers and shaman don't need to be maxed although it does help. The dps doesn't need to have tempted armor as long as they are tempted to do max dmg.

I'm sorry if none of this applies to Hib but I wanted to show it can be done with less than Fully tempted players. If you get a couple people in that have a lot of experience with DS and they have the patience there is no reason you cannot finish the instance ( might take awhile ).

I ran with a couple people people that came over from Hib, The Skald was wearing rainbow armor from drops and the healer I dont believe was RR3 yet

but we ran DS with no issues, I felt bad for the Skald and bought him a TG chest piece

TO NOOB GROUPS
Dont try DS.
Do HoH, the trash is way easier for a noob group and you can have a lot more variety of classes in your group to do HoH than DS

Lately i've done a couple HOH runs with a SM pbae group and it is faster than the Melee groups ive been in. You can get a group of totally NOOB classes and farm all the Trash in HOH and earn a very decent amount of feathers. There are also 2 Bosses for sure that are easy to do. But once you kill all the trash mobs leading up to the bosses you can port right to the bosses. So kill all the Trash then try different bosses. I personally would skip Zorsch for now until you can roll through the rest of the bosses. Zorsch is a totally different encounter than any of them yet.

Wed 31 Jul 2019 2:27 PM by Chaskha

The hardest part is to be in a first run.
Then you have to listen and demonstrate you can play and follow instructions.
From there, you'll start making connections and it will become easier to get in.

This is true to the exclusion of a few with the "roxxor 1337 mentality".

You do not need a ton of plats to template a Hero.
With 5p, aside of procs, you get a full armor SCed and the good rogs from the market you need. Maybe less if you had some good loots.

You'll be welcome to shield in a bomb group too. It sure is harder than templating a caster but it is far from difficult (also guilds usually help).

Wed 31 Jul 2019 2:42 PM by CronU

Bobbahunter wrote: ↑
Wed 31 Jul 2019 1:51 PM
TO NOOB GROUPS
Dont try DS.
Do HoH, the trash is way easier for a noob group and you can have a lot more variety of classes in your group to do HoH than DS

Lately i've done a couple HOH runs with a SM pbae group and it is faster than the Melee groups ive been in. You can get a group of totally NOOB classes and farm all the Trash in HOH and earn a very decent amount of feathers. There are also 2 Bosses for sure that are easy to do. But once you kill all the trash mobs leading up to the bosses you can port right to the bosses. So kill all the Trash then try different bosses. I personally would skip Zorsch for now until you can roll through the rest of the bosses. Zorsch is a totally different encounter than any of them yet.

I can 100% underline that statement. In HoH you have way more class variences possible, since the whole dungeon (exept for Zorsch) is easier then Darkspire.

short example:
Albion Grp - 41 min. we had 8 diffrent classes in the grp.
Pala, Arms, Merc, Reaver, Theurg, Necro, Cleric, Friar

Also Realmrank is helpfull but not needed at all. (just like rr3-4 for the basic RA's)
Current first sub 30 run from mid.
we had 3x rr3, 4x rr4 and just me on a rr9 healer.

greez Clary

Wed 31 Jul 2019 4:21 PM by Gweinyth

chewchew wrote: ↑
Tue 30 Jul 2019 7:24 AM
Hi, you will be able to get some feathers, dont worry and dont give up!

ddelmarle wrote: ↑
Tue 30 Jul 2019 5:29 AM
-need to have experience,
-need to be templated
That is the intended design of DS as high-end PvE instance.
For feather gain with less experienced and untemplated players there are still other options for feathers: DF, CF-boss-mobs, RvR

How can having DS experience to get a group to do DS be part of the intended design? I see people on Hib all the time looking for people to fill groups that must have completed DS 26 times. What the heck is that all about?

Wed 31 Jul 2019 5:27 PM by chewchew

Gweinyth wrote: ↑
Wed 31 Jul 2019 4:21 PM
How can having DS experience to get a group to do DS be part of the intended design? I see people on Hib all the time looking for people to fill groups that must have completed DS 26 times. What the heck is that all about?

Its intended as high-end PvE instance where you cant half-afk-stick go through like on a big zerg si-epic-raid.
You need experience with the mobs and their abilities inside to get through it. You get this experience either through guides/other experienced players or
through trying out the mobs yourself (and some wipes) and figuring out a strategy.
You get bonus stats inside the instances per finished run. These bonuses help a bit out but are a very minor thing compared to knowing the mobs and their abilities and having a strategy prepared. Also these bonuses have a cap, I think its +26 for stats, thats maybe why some people in /lfg look for members that already have 26 runs.

Wed 31 Jul 2019 6:14 PM by Gweinyth

chewchew wrote: ↑
Wed 31 Jul 2019 5:27 PM
Gweinyth wrote: ↑
Wed 31 Jul 2019 4:21 PM
How can having DS experience to get a group to do DS be part of the intended design? I see people on Hib all the time looking for people to fill groups that must have completed DS 26 times. What the heck is that all about?
Its intended as high-end PvE instance where you cant half-afk-stick go through like on a big zerg si-epic-raid.
You need experience with the mobs and their abilities inside to get through it. You get this experience either through guides/other experienced players or
through trying out the mobs yourself (and some wipes) and figuring out a strategy.
You get bonus stats inside the instances per finished run. These bonuses help a bit out but are a very minor thing compared to knowing the mobs and their abilities and having a strategy prepared. Also these bonuses have a cap, I think its +26 for stats, thats maybe why some people in /lfg look for members that already have 26 runs.

I understand all of that. I think the frustration for the OP is that, on Hib at least, it is very difficult to get a DS group unless you have DS experience. Personally, I have never completed DS. I have found other more enjoyable ways to get feathers than to try to convince an elitist group that I am capable of playing my characters.