Please consider - Phoenix Freeshard

Please make melee damage types neutral for all armour types.

Silly that i can have 10% extra damage vs some classes and 10% less against others. Its just annoying and not necessary.

it just forces people to chose a weapon spec based on how often they fight a certain class, instead of choosing a spec they prefer to play.

Tue 16 Jul 2019 7:50 PM by Enyore

It's part of the game, should not be changed.

Tough shit about your dps, then rethink you spec.

Tue 16 Jul 2019 7:52 PM by ExcretusMaximus

Yes, let's remove all strategy from the game! Homogenize everything! Make Phoenix like Live!

Tue 16 Jul 2019 8:14 PM by Toddola

Enyore wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Jul 2019 7:50 PM
It's part of the game, should not be changed.

Tough shit about your dps, then rethink you spec.

Surely having it all neutral will depend MORE on your skills as a player, and not some stupid random advantage/disadvantage depending on what class you run into.

My DPS is fine by the way, this is not a QQ because i lost a fight, so wind your neck in.

I'm simply saying having it all natural would make it fair game for all melee types.

Tue 16 Jul 2019 8:55 PM by gotwqqd

Toddola wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Jul 2019 8:14 PM
Enyore wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Jul 2019 7:50 PM
It's part of the game, should not be changed.

Tough shit about your dps, then rethink you spec.

Surely having it all neutral will depend MORE on your skills as a player, and not some stupid random advantage/disadvantage depending on what class you run into.

My DPS is fine by the way, this is not a QQ because i lost a fight, so wind your neck in.

I'm simply saying having it all natural would make it fair game for all melee types.

So all magic types should be same?

Wed 17 Jul 2019 6:48 AM by Sepplord

gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Jul 2019 8:55 PM
Toddola wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Jul 2019 8:14 PM
Enyore wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Jul 2019 7:50 PM
It's part of the game, should not be changed.

Tough shit about your dps, then rethink you spec.

Surely having it all neutral will depend MORE on your skills as a player, and not some stupid random advantage/disadvantage depending on what class you run into.

My DPS is fine by the way, this is not a QQ because i lost a fight, so wind your neck in.

I'm simply saying having it all natural would make it fair game for all melee types.
So all magic types should be same?

Which magic has bonus damage depending which armor is nuked?
Are you completely misunderstanding what OP is talking about or derailing the discussion on purpose?

Imo not having armor-vulnerabilities would make balancing much easier, but it is so deeply ingrained in the current game it could result in huge imbalances to now just normalize the meleedmg per armortype

Thu 18 Jul 2019 6:18 AM by Cadebrennus

Having different vulnerabilities/strengths to weapons and armor adds another layer of complexity and strategy that is lacking in other games. I like it. If you don't like it go play WoW.

Mon 22 Jul 2019 2:03 AM by Ombrix

Toddola wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Jul 2019 8:14 PM
Enyore wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Jul 2019 7:50 PM
It's part of the game, should not be changed.

Tough shit about your dps, then rethink you spec.

Surely having it all neutral will depend MORE on your skills as a player, and not some stupid random advantage/disadvantage depending on what class you run into.

My DPS is fine by the way, this is not a QQ because i lost a fight, so wind your neck in.

I'm simply saying having it all natural would make it fair game for all melee types.

So, they should remove Miss Rate, evade/block/parry chance , because it’s some kind of random advantages too ?

I would agree with Miss Rate , but no way for the rest x)

Miss Rate is definitly useless.

QC mez ! Ah no miss. Ok i’m dead. 😄

The possibility to remove the miss chance would be nice, like master of focus 6 should remove every miss chance or whatever

Mon 22 Jul 2019 3:16 AM by Numatic

Personally I think armor should have played a larger role in flat damage reduction rather than having armor be resistant/vulnerable to certain damage types, and spec lines should have been made more towards a certain playstyle. That way an arms man had a slight advantage in dmg reduction due to plate but having to spec in different lines meant likely a lower WS if he wanted slam and a 2h for example. But the way it is now, almost all of mid is either crush or slash so that advantage is all but gone against an entire realm. I just think it's odd my peirce NS can hit a mid chain wearer harder than I hit a SB for.

As for the spec lines, they should each have a playstyle. For example thrust should be more bleed heavy, crush more snare/stun, and slash a combo or what have you.

Mon 22 Jul 2019 3:35 AM by bm01

Toddola wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Jul 2019 8:14 PM
Surely having it all neutral will depend MORE on your skills as a player, and not some stupid random advantage/disadvantage depending on what class you run into.

And race too, because of racial resistances. But DAoC isn't an arena with fair and balanced fights. These advantages / Disadvantages are what make DAoC. RAs, relics... Randomness on EVERY action performed by the player.

Mon 22 Jul 2019 5:24 PM by LedriTheThane

Always thought the whole armor resistant/vulnerable/neutral mechanic of the game was so stupid. Why should a plate wearing armsman that's meant to be a take get immediately screwed by someone with crush damage? I always thought there should've been some sort of flat damage reduction across, but make it somewhat unique.

So for example, Plate on alb gives the most damage reduction. The chain for alb/mid is lower than scale for hib but still very close. The reinforced for hib is lower than studded on mid/alb. Leather is the same. Could be different though.

Mon 22 Jul 2019 5:35 PM by inoeth

the only issue appear when someone with a vunerability meets someone with a resistance so it adds up to 20% dmg difference...
there should be legendary weapons to avoid that, imo with the debuff removed because that would be much too powerfull in this setting

Mon 22 Jul 2019 5:55 PM by jelzinga_EU

ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Jul 2019 7:52 PM
Yes, let's remove all strategy from the game! Homogenize everything! Make Phoenix like Live!

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Thu 18 Jul 2019 6:18 AM
Having different vulnerabilities/strengths to weapons and armor adds another layer of complexity and strategy that is lacking in other games. I like it. If you don't like it go play WoW.

Some classes have only 1 melee-damage option (VW, Friar, Shadowblade) - can we make everyone neutral for them then? Or should we change strategy into "as long as it suites me" ?

Mon 22 Jul 2019 8:39 PM by Toddola

bm01 wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Jul 2019 3:35 AM
Toddola wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Jul 2019 8:14 PM
Surely having it all neutral will depend MORE on your skills as a player, and not some stupid random advantage/disadvantage depending on what class you run into.
And race too, because of racial resistances. But DAoC isn't an arena with fair and balanced fights. These advantages / Disadvantages are what make DAoC. RAs, relics... Randomness on EVERY action performed by the player.

Race resistances are minimal, i'm not saying everything should be equal.. I just think the potential to have a 20% disadvantage/advantage is a bit over the top.

Mon 22 Jul 2019 9:01 PM by Cadebrennus

jelzinga_EU wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Jul 2019 5:55 PM
ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Jul 2019 7:52 PM
Yes, let's remove all strategy from the game! Homogenize everything! Make Phoenix like Live!

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Thu 18 Jul 2019 6:18 AM
Having different vulnerabilities/strengths to weapons and armor adds another layer of complexity and strategy that is lacking in other games. I like it. If you don't like it go play WoW.

Some classes have only 1 melee-damage option (VW, Friar, Shadowblade) - can we make everyone neutral for them then? Or should we change strategy into "as long as it suites me" ?

If only those classes had other options, like Envenom that does significant amounts of body damage or serious debuffs, or heals and buffs, or excellent ranged magic damage and 2handed damage...... if only.......

Mon 22 Jul 2019 9:03 PM by Cadebrennus

Toddola wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Jul 2019 8:39 PM
bm01 wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Jul 2019 3:35 AM
Toddola wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Jul 2019 8:14 PM
Surely having it all neutral will depend MORE on your skills as a player, and not some stupid random advantage/disadvantage depending on what class you run into.
And race too, because of racial resistances. But DAoC isn't an arena with fair and balanced fights. These advantages / Disadvantages are what make DAoC. RAs, relics... Randomness on EVERY action performed by the player.

Race resistances are minimal, i'm not saying everything should be equal.. I just think the potential to have a 20% disadvantage/advantage is a bit over the top.

I think a 30 Strength advantage (for Mids) disadvantage (for Hibs) is well over the top but most Hib players have accepted it and stopped whining about it.

Tue 23 Jul 2019 5:48 AM by gotwqqd

Doesn’t higher armor have mitigation?
So then what’s the issue with weapons having +\-

Tue 23 Jul 2019 8:55 AM by jelzinga_EU

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Jul 2019 9:01 PM
jelzinga_EU wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Jul 2019 5:55 PM
ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Jul 2019 7:52 PM
Yes, let's remove all strategy from the game! Homogenize everything! Make Phoenix like Live!

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Thu 18 Jul 2019 6:18 AM
Having different vulnerabilities/strengths to weapons and armor adds another layer of complexity and strategy that is lacking in other games. I like it. If you don't like it go play WoW.

Some classes have only 1 melee-damage option (VW, Friar, Shadowblade) - can we make everyone neutral for them then? Or should we change strategy into "as long as it suites me" ?

If only those classes had other options, like Envenom that does significant amounts of body damage or serious debuffs, or heals and buffs, or excellent ranged magic damage and 2handed damage...... if only.......

Basically moving the goal-posts in a discussion. But forgetting that for a second, what is this strategy you're talking about really ? There is no strategy involved at all once you got your spec done and templated, that strategy is only there for Archery, Hunter Spear, Savage H2H and the alike, like Large Weaponry, rest is just fixed in his specced damage-type.

The points about the SB are bollocks, 2H is still same damage-type (and not even viable, but OK). Envenom and such is available to NS/INF too. In fact, your argument for defending that a SB only has 1 damage-type is even backwards: If anything, it would be NS who only have 1 damage-type then, seeing as they get magic with insta-DD and casted-DD.

As said, there is very little strategy involved about it. There is no way around a SB has to deal with 10% additional resists when fighting a NS/Ranger and has 10% less resists if they're Blades. Even tho I'm against removing it all entirely, I do think lowering the 10% would be a good idea.

Tue 23 Jul 2019 2:42 PM by Horus

This would be a direct nerf to archers.

Tue 23 Jul 2019 4:32 PM by Kemoauc

Horus wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Jul 2019 2:42 PM
This would be a direct nerf to archers.

True. But they would potentially benefit in melee too.

Generally, resistant vs vulnerable is really quite a substantial difference. Ignoring racial resistances, you deal 84% damage to vulnerable and 64% to resistant. In actual damage dealt that is either 31% more damage if you go from resistant to vulnerable or 24% less damage if you go from vulnerable to resistant. I think there certainly is an argument that this is too drastic and could be reduced or removed entirely.

I agree it creates some strategic element to have people choose against whom they want to be effective against. But it also creates some balancing issues in certain parts of the game where there is no choice for the player such as stealther warfare or single weapon line classes where some classes by pure luck have the better dmg types available to them than their direct often faced opponents.

Examples:
SB can only go slash and hits resistant/neutral against other assassins
NS can choose slash and hits neutral/vulnerable against other assassins

Wed 24 Jul 2019 1:14 AM by Cadebrennus

jelzinga_EU wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Jul 2019 8:55 AM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Jul 2019 9:01 PM
jelzinga_EU wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Jul 2019 5:55 PM
Some classes have only 1 melee-damage option (VW, Friar, Shadowblade) - can we make everyone neutral for them then? Or should we change strategy into "as long as it suites me" ?

If only those classes had other options, like Envenom that does significant amounts of body damage or serious debuffs, or heals and buffs, or excellent ranged magic damage and 2handed damage...... if only.......

Basically moving the goal-posts in a discussion. But forgetting that for a second, what is this strategy you're talking about really ? There is no strategy involved at all once you got your spec done and templated, that strategy is only there for Archery, Hunter Spear, Savage H2H and the alike, like Large Weaponry, rest is just fixed in his specced damage-type.

The points about the SB are bollocks, 2H is still same damage-type (and not even viable, but OK). Envenom and such is available to NS/INF too. In fact, your argument for defending that a SB only has 1 damage-type is even backwards: If anything, it would be NS who only have 1 damage-type then, seeing as they get magic with insta-DD and casted-DD.

As said, there is very little strategy involved about it. There is no way around a SB has to deal with 10% additional resists when fighting a NS/Ranger and has 10% less resists if they're Blades. Even tho I'm against removing it all entirely, I do think lowering the 10% would be a good idea.

Most of what you said.....
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.
.
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Strategy-wise most players can choose their weapons, and those who can't can still choose their targets. If Assassins stopped with all of the dick-measuring contests and instead went after targets that actually mattered then the Assassin damage tables would make a lot more sense. All of Alb is neutral, and Druids are weak to Slash. Maybe do something for the realm and you might see benefits instead of something you constantly bitch about.

Wed 24 Jul 2019 2:22 AM by Mavella

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Jul 2019 1:14 AM
Strategy-wise most players can choose their weapons, and those who can't can still choose their targets. If Assassins stopped with all of the dick-measuring contests and instead went after targets that actually mattered then the Assassin damage tables would make a lot more sense. All of Alb is neutral, and Druids are weak to Slash. Maybe do something for the realm and you might see benefits instead of something you constantly bitch about.

I guess we'll see an army of pierce NS appear in the frontier any day now. Healers and clerics beware.

FOR THE REALM!

Orrrr the 20% damage spread is too juicy to pass up. 30 Strength doesn't mean shit and Norse has to invest in Aug qui that elf/luri don't. They can buy Aug str instead and make the str gap minimal at best. These classes no longer majorly over cap qui post charge nerf and Norse can't reasonably come close. If an SB wants to cap qui they gotta go valkyn and they have a whopping five more strength.

Wed 24 Jul 2019 4:47 AM by Cadebrennus

Mavella wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Jul 2019 2:22 AM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Jul 2019 1:14 AM
Strategy-wise most players can choose their weapons, and those who can't can still choose their targets. If Assassins stopped with all of the dick-measuring contests and instead went after targets that actually mattered then the Assassin damage tables would make a lot more sense. All of Alb is neutral, and Druids are weak to Slash. Maybe do something for the realm and you might see benefits instead of something you constantly bitch about.

I guess we'll see an army of pierce NS appear in the frontier any day now. Healers and clerics beware.

FOR THE REALM!

Orrrr the 20% damage spread is too juicy to pass up. 30 Strength doesn't mean shit and Norse has to invest in Aug qui that elf/luri don't. They can buy Aug str instead and make the str gap minimal at best. These classes no longer majorly over cap qui post charge nerf and Norse can't reasonably come close. If an SB wants to cap qui they gotta go valkyn and they have a whopping five more strength.

30 Strength is significant even on live. Here it's even more significant because there are no stat cap boosts in templates. If that didn't matter then people wouldn't bother with it on live.

Wed 24 Jul 2019 7:12 AM by jelzinga_EU

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Jul 2019 4:47 AM
Strategy-wise most players can choose their weapons, and those who can't can still choose their targets. If Assassins stopped with all of the dick-measuring contests and instead went after targets that actually mattered then the Assassin damage tables would make a lot more sense. All of Alb is neutral, and Druids are weak to Slash. Maybe do something for the realm and you might see benefits instead of something you constantly bitch about.

30 Strength is significant even on live. Here it's even more significant because there are no stat cap boosts in templates. If that didn't matter then people wouldn't bother with it on live.

Basically you're full of it. If you claim 30 STR is significant (and I agree it is, about 5% more damage when using 100% STR weapon-lines, such as Blades when you're looking at ~220 --> ~250 STR) and you followed your own line of thinking you would know that any NS with Pierce actually has higher WS than a Norse SB at level 50, thanks to DEX being Primary stat and STR only being Tertiary. So, if the starter-stats are so important, than NS is actually quite OK compared to SB.

Somehow, most NS/Ranger pick Blades, so clearly there is something else at game why they pick Blades. It is not about their strengths and weaknesses with their classes and races or helping the realm. It is all about doing the most damage to their most common enemies: Enemy assassins and archers. Who cares about 5% less damage due to WS if you get 10-20% more from the get-go due to armor-differences?

So if it is all OK for NS/Ranger to do that, why you are so fierce against SBs being on a more level field? Oh, I know - because then suddenly they lost their advantage.

Cut the crap about tactics, 30 STR and what not and just cough it up: You somehow "hate" SB's being on a more even field. You make up all kinds of bullshit-reasons why it is perfectly OK for SB to have 1 damage-type and to have a major armor-disadvantage in the most common fights. It is because of their 2H ! Of their Envenom! Because they should pick their targets like druids ! Because of 30 STR more ! All (except the 2H) go for NS too, and you could argue their magic is actually a different damage-type - so they're not arguments at all.

Wed 24 Jul 2019 7:23 AM by Sepplord

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Jul 2019 1:14 AM
.
Strategy-wise most players can choose their weapons, and those who can't can still choose their targets. If Assassins stopped with all of the dick-measuring contests and instead went after targets that actually mattered then the Assassin damage tables would make a lot more sense. All of Alb is neutral, and Druids are weak to Slash. Maybe do something for the realm and you might see benefits instead of something you constantly bitch about.

you are right but sadly it's not really possible in the current setup of the game...

grouped targets outscale too far with buffs...and with inflated RRs theres always a huge baterry to go though. Attacking grouped targets usually results in death, unless you catch someone sitting.
what's even worse though is, that guards can't be LOSed, so whenever we try to take out strugglers/low-HPs/etc... in a siege we get so much adds that we usually die, or use our OP-vanish just to still die in 50% of the cases since vanish is buggy.
And since lighttanks climb walls just like we do, they are better for clearing ramparts anyways.

The assassin does not have a job right now in the game. Everything regarding "the realm" cannot be done reliably anymore, and an archer does it better in most cases. Camping supply routes for the random solo imba-fighter or fighting other stealth is what is left

And to be honest: you won't kill a grouped druid unless that druid is AFK. And using vulnerable/resistant damagetype VS a healer will not make a difference in the outcome 9of10fights

Wed 24 Jul 2019 1:56 PM by Cadebrennus

jelzinga_EU wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Jul 2019 7:12 AM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Jul 2019 4:47 AM
Strategy-wise most players can choose their weapons, and those who can't can still choose their targets. If Assassins stopped with all of the dick-measuring contests and instead went after targets that actually mattered then the Assassin damage tables would make a lot more sense. All of Alb is neutral, and Druids are weak to Slash. Maybe do something for the realm and you might see benefits instead of something you constantly bitch about.

30 Strength is significant even on live. Here it's even more significant because there are no stat cap boosts in templates. If that didn't matter then people wouldn't bother with it on live.

Basically you're full of it. If you claim 30 STR is significant (and I agree it is, about 5% more damage when using 100% STR weapon-lines, such as Blades when you're looking at ~220 --> ~250 STR) and you followed your own line of thinking you would know that any NS with Pierce actually has higher WS than a Norse SB at level 50, thanks to DEX being Primary stat and STR only being Tertiary. So, if the starter-stats are so important, than NS is actually quite OK compared to SB.

Somehow, most NS/Ranger pick Blades, so clearly there is something else at game why they pick Blades. It is not about their strengths and weaknesses with their classes and races or helping the realm. It is all about doing the most damage to their most common enemies: Enemy assassins and archers. Who cares about 5% less damage due to WS if you get 10-20% more from the get-go due to armor-differences?

So if it is all OK for NS/Ranger to do that, why you are so fierce against SBs being on a more level field? Oh, I know - because then suddenly they lost their advantage.

Cut the crap about tactics, 30 STR and what not and just cough it up: You somehow "hate" SB's being on a more even field. You make up all kinds of bullshit-reasons why it is perfectly OK for SB to have 1 damage-type and to have a major armor-disadvantage in the most common fights. It is because of their 2H ! Of their Envenom! Because they should pick their targets like druids ! Because of 30 STR more ! All (except the 2H) go for NS too, and you could argue their magic is actually a different damage-type - so they're not arguments at all.

Well I guess now we know who's actually full of it. Thanks for pointing yourself out to everyone. I was planning on playing an SB and you can see that from my plat transfer post in the Mid forums. I actually got the plat transfer to Alb first, so it was basically whichever realm I got plat in first was the realm I was going to play. Alb was faster so now I'm in Alb.

Regarding the "higher WS" argument you made about NS and Pierce, make up your damn mind. Either the NS has better WS with Pierce and shittier damage table against BOTH Alb and Mid, or they have lower WS and a good damage table against Alb and Mid (but a 30 Strength deficit leading to less damage). It can't be both.

Wed 24 Jul 2019 1:59 PM by Cadebrennus

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Jul 2019 7:23 AM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Jul 2019 1:14 AM
.
Strategy-wise most players can choose their weapons, and those who can't can still choose their targets. If Assassins stopped with all of the dick-measuring contests and instead went after targets that actually mattered then the Assassin damage tables would make a lot more sense. All of Alb is neutral, and Druids are weak to Slash. Maybe do something for the realm and you might see benefits instead of something you constantly bitch about.

you are right but sadly it's not really possible in the current setup of the game...

grouped targets outscale too far with buffs...and with inflated RRs theres always a huge baterry to go though. Attacking grouped targets usually results in death, unless you catch someone sitting.
what's even worse though is, that guards can't be LOSed, so whenever we try to take out strugglers/low-HPs/etc... in a siege we get so much adds that we usually die, or use our OP-vanish just to still die in 50% of the cases since vanish is buggy.
And since lighttanks climb walls just like we do, they are better for clearing ramparts anyways.

The assassin does not have a job right now in the game. Everything regarding "the realm" cannot be done reliably anymore, and an archer does it better in most cases. Camping supply routes for the random solo imba-fighter or fighting other stealth is what is left

And to be honest: you won't kill a grouped druid unless that druid is AFK. And using vulnerable/resistant damagetype VS a healer will not make a difference in the outcome 9of10fights

I wish more Infils would clear walls with me. They can actually sneak past the wall defenders to possibly drop targets. It's lonely being the only Saracen up top killing the defenders, and deadly too.

But ya, a solo Assassin with pot buffs trying to smoke a target in a group is just suicide. If they were grouped and had full buffs and heals, in combination with some /assisting, they could do some real damage. Alas, 99.9999999% of players are stuck in the same 'ol meta mentality and will always play the same way regardless.

Wed 24 Jul 2019 2:04 PM by Sepplord

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Jul 2019 1:59 PM
I wish more Infils would clear walls with me. They can actually sneak past the wall defenders to possibly drop targets. It's lonely being the only Saracen up top killing the defenders, and deadly too.

But ya, a solo Assassin with pot buffs trying to smoke a target in a group is just suicide. If they were grouped and had full buffs and heals, in combination with some /assisting, they could do some real damage. Alas, 99.9999999% of players are stuck in the same 'ol meta mentality and will always play the same way regardless.

OR .... they think: why would i play an assassin for that if i could do the same as lighttank, that also brings loads of other benefits/playstyles with them

which wall defenders are you hinting at the assassins sneaking by btw...?
first of all, the wall is too thin to avoid detection. second of all the defenders on the front of the wall usually are casters...
A nice melee train will go up and kill stuff or at least clear the wall MUCH better than any group of assassins could. There is no scenario where someone would prefer assassins instead of lighttanks if you build a wall-climb group to clear walls.

Wed 24 Jul 2019 2:10 PM by florin

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Jul 2019 2:04 PM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Jul 2019 1:59 PM
I wish more Infils would clear walls with me. They can actually sneak past the wall defenders to possibly drop targets. It's lonely being the only Saracen up top killing the defenders, and deadly too.

But ya, a solo Assassin with pot buffs trying to smoke a target in a group is just suicide. If they were grouped and had full buffs and heals, in combination with some /assisting, they could do some real damage. Alas, 99.9999999% of players are stuck in the same 'ol meta mentality and will always play the same way regardless.

OR .... they think: why would i play an assassin for that if i could do the same as lighttank, that also brings loads of other benefits/playstyles with them

which wall defenders are you hinting at the assassins sneaking by btw...?
first of all, the wall is too thin to avoid detection. second of all the defenders on the front of the wall usually are casters...
A nice melee train will go up and kill stuff or at least clear the wall MUCH better than any group of assassins could. There is no scenario where someone would prefer assassins instead of lighttanks if you build a wall-climb group to clear walls.

maybe we let assassins climb all the way into the inner keeps or top level of towers while light tanks are too heavy

Guard and captain/lord aggro through walls is a bit ridiculous.

Wed 24 Jul 2019 4:18 PM by Mavella

florin wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Jul 2019 2:10 PM
maybe we let assassins climb all the way into the inner keeps or top level of towers while light tanks are too heavy

Guard and captain/lord aggro through walls is a bit ridiculous.

I can see it now. Perf a guy firing a palintone. Get exploded by 6 400 damage arrows 3 seconds later and watch the lord charge through the fine red mist where my body used to be standing. At least it'll give the person running the seige a good laugh!

These DAOC keep guards would be able to hold their own in Warhammer 40k universe that's for sure.