Returned after a year out and some good stuff, some shockingly bad.

First off I have no problem with NF, I think OF was stale and needed changing and the way water works here makes NF pretty decent. Unfortunately, the player base still tends to bridge/dock hump on the main 3 keeps but there are enough port cuts that you cant actually get decent fights.

Second, WTF is this stun immunity cleanse on ST? Just giving Thanes and champions and absolute I win 1v1 every 15 mins, granted Thanes are a ball of shit without out but having it as either win or lose depending on ST seems stupid, just give them a slight boost and take that nonsense out, as for champions, as if they needed a 1v1 boost (I play hib so haven't had to deal with them but I imagine they are now a pure avoid for soloers?)

SM's.......... what is that pet intercept rate? they just have unlimited free moc, and the pet seems to have like 5000000 hp so can't even kill it. Not seen 1 SM even try to quick cast a mezz cos what's the point, they know they can just out dmg you with lifetap and intercept, makes BDs look like a skilled class, in fact, BDs are infinitely easier to kill than SMs.

Why are Assassins so weak? can have really nice fights vs other assassins or jump a caster, but forget trying to fight any melee visible (other than a reaver which seems really weak as well for some reason), evade is practically 0 and the WS debuffs seem to have almost no effect. Also I seem to get smashed buy melee hunters, like they 3-4 shot me while I tickle them with a feather, are all archers like this now? I assume no one tries melee scout so hard to tell, but what are rangers like for Inf and SBs?

Paladins are also hilariously strong but as they've spent nearly 20 years being utterly useless I have no complaints about that.

Obviously, I don't expect to win every fight but some of the imbalances are just silly right now, it's like having to learn an entirely new game with what is an impossible kill etc.

Don't get me wrong, the server is still decent, and it's doing ok for the game's age, but just seems like an uphill struggle

Thu 4 Jul 2019 3:11 PM by florin

Good summary - agree on all points

Thu 4 Jul 2019 3:35 PM by Druth

Gohanssj wrote: ↑
Thu 4 Jul 2019 3:08 PM
First off I have no problem with NF, I think OF was stale and needed changing and the way water works here makes NF pretty decent. Unfortunately, the player base still tends to bridge/dock hump on the main 3 keeps but there are enough port cuts that you cant actually get decent fights.

Second, WTF is this stun immunity cleanse on ST? Just giving Thanes and champions and absolute I win 1v1 every 15 mins, granted Thanes are a ball of shit without out but having it as either win or lose depending on ST seems stupid, just give them a slight boost and take that nonsense out, as for champions, as if they needed a 1v1 boost (I play hib so haven't had to deal with them but I imagine they are now a pure avoid for soloers?)

SM's.......... what is that pet intercept rate? they just have unlimited free moc, and the pet seems to have like 5000000 hp so can't even kill it. Not seen 1 SM even try to quick cast a mezz cos what's the point, they know they can just out dmg you with lifetap and intercept, makes BDs look like a skilled class, in fact, BDs are infinitely easier to kill than SMs.

Why are Assassins so weak? can have really nice fights vs other assassins or jump a caster, but forget trying to fight any melee visible (other than a reaver which seems really weak as well for some reason), evade is practically 0 and the WS debuffs seem to have almost no effect. Also I seem to get smashed buy melee hunters, like they 3-4 shot me while I tickle them with a feather, are all archers like this now? I assume no one tries melee scout so hard to tell, but what are rangers like for Inf and SBs?

Paladins are also hilariously strong but as they've spent nearly 20 years being utterly useless I have no complaints about that.

Obviously, I don't expect to win every fight but some of the imbalances are just silly right now, it's like having to learn an entirely new game with what is an impossible kill etc.

Don't get me wrong, the server is still decent, and it's doing ok for the game's age, but just seems like an uphill struggle

Some good points, but also some unreasonable ones

ST and vanish (yes vanish as well) suffer from one stupid flaw, there is little to no reason to spend more than 5 points on it. It does all you want for 5 points.
Both are stupid, and needs a reform.
Keep in mind ST has a short radius, so you can move out of it, just that many don't and then end up getting double slammed.

SM's are quite strong, and think the intercept and hp's of pets is to high.
I remember on Live I buffed my pet (using bot), and it still took fewer hits than the unbuffed ones here.
Same goes for necro, crazy strong unless you catch some of the bad ones.

Assassins are not weak, they are very strong when played right. Plenty really good nightshades out there, that will make me work for my money even if they don't get off PA, and I use all RA's. And keep in mind just how strong stealth is on a server where all groups will kill a solo visible.
Think rangers are currently better than NS, simply because of how good they are in keep fights.

Thu 4 Jul 2019 9:06 PM by Anelyn77

Gohanssj wrote: ↑
Thu 4 Jul 2019 3:08 PM
First off I have no problem with NF, I think OF was stale and needed changing and the way water works here makes NF pretty decent. Unfortunately, the player base still tends to bridge/dock hump on the main 3 keeps but there are enough port cuts that you cant actually get decent fights.

Second, WTF is this stun immunity cleanse on ST? Just giving Thanes and champions and absolute I win 1v1 every 15 mins, granted Thanes are a ball of shit without out but having it as either win or lose depending on ST seems stupid, just give them a slight boost and take that nonsense out, as for champions, as if they needed a 1v1 boost (I play hib so haven't had to deal with them but I imagine they are now a pure avoid for soloers?)

SM's.......... what is that pet intercept rate? they just have unlimited free moc, and the pet seems to have like 5000000 hp so can't even kill it. Not seen 1 SM even try to quick cast a mezz cos what's the point, they know they can just out dmg you with lifetap and intercept, makes BDs look like a skilled class, in fact, BDs are infinitely easier to kill than SMs.

Why are Assassins so weak? can have really nice fights vs other assassins or jump a caster, but forget trying to fight any melee visible (other than a reaver which seems really weak as well for some reason), evade is practically 0 and the WS debuffs seem to have almost no effect. Also I seem to get smashed buy melee hunters, like they 3-4 shot me while I tickle them with a feather, are all archers like this now? I assume no one tries melee scout so hard to tell, but what are rangers like for Inf and SBs?

Paladins are also hilariously strong but as they've spent nearly 20 years being utterly useless I have no complaints about that.

Obviously, I don't expect to win every fight but some of the imbalances are just silly right now, it's like having to learn an entirely new game with what is an impossible kill etc.

Don't get me wrong, the server is still decent, and it's doing ok for the game's age, but just seems like an uphill struggle

That's the whole point of ST. To reset stun immunity. If it didn't, nobody would ever pick it up, because it would give you stun immunity after 2s stun (LOL) and also peeps that don't afk in rvr move out of it instantly (it doesn't trigger the stun on cast, it takes time to charge / warm up).

Just because a RA seems OP in 1v1 scenario means nothing. They need to balance RA's with 8m vs 8m and zerg vs zerg in mind. Sure your thane or champ will win a 1v1 with it up (which is fine really), same as a moc lifetap caster will win a 1v1 most of the times vs a melee or other caster.

You need to look at the bigger picture for active RA's not from 1v1 perspective.

PS: sins will always lose to champs / reavers / friars / thanes / warrs if they have their brains on and not afk.

/Bnot + Aicha + Aichas (more S)

Thu 4 Jul 2019 11:13 PM by Tarticus74

Gohan are you the old player from Excal I agree on most points I play a SB and will fight anything and loose a lot lol.

Any friar past RR4 is virtually impossible Necro past RR3 same Mincers with a pet are very hard with toys up. Not had much issue with tanks except Mercs with dirty tricks champs impossible that's about it can't comment on thane ST but it's the same as Reavers when you go to duel them and they drop TWF on you lol

Rangers are beasts melle rangers are hard have all the toys self buffs and also IP plus the armour tables for them.

Thu 4 Jul 2019 11:22 PM by Gohanssj

Yeah, well I was mostly prydwen but played both. And yeah it's by no means impossible as an assassin but definitely much harder than it was in beta or back in the day, and some of the balance issues are laughable.

Also thanes have no place in 8v8 so it's irrelevant

Just saying it shouldn't reset the slam timer, it should be for interrupting, stopping kiting, giving a safe haven for your healers from tank trian etc. Was never a slam reset on live, silly that for 5 realm points you can get essentially the best RA in the game, un breakable slam :p and maybe you can run out of it before first tick, have only had it thrown on me once so not sure, but thanes nuke so that plays into their hands just as much (which is why I stayed innit cos 2 sec stun wasnt enough for them to free cast)

Thu 4 Jul 2019 11:39 PM by Saroi

Gohanssj wrote: ↑
Thu 4 Jul 2019 3:08 PM
First off I have no problem with NF, I think OF was stale and needed changing and the way water works here makes NF pretty decent. Unfortunately, the player base still tends to bridge/dock hump on the main 3 keeps but there are enough port cuts that you cant actually get decent fights.

Second, WTF is this stun immunity cleanse on ST? Just giving Thanes and champions and absolute I win 1v1 every 15 mins, granted Thanes are a ball of shit without out but having it as either win or lose depending on ST seems stupid, just give them a slight boost and take that nonsense out, as for champions, as if they needed a 1v1 boost (I play hib so haven't had to deal with them but I imagine they are now a pure avoid for soloers?)

SM's.......... what is that pet intercept rate? they just have unlimited free moc, and the pet seems to have like 5000000 hp so can't even kill it. Not seen 1 SM even try to quick cast a mezz cos what's the point, they know they can just out dmg you with lifetap and intercept, makes BDs look like a skilled class, in fact, BDs are infinitely easier to kill than SMs.

Why are Assassins so weak? can have really nice fights vs other assassins or jump a caster, but forget trying to fight any melee visible (other than a reaver which seems really weak as well for some reason), evade is practically 0 and the WS debuffs seem to have almost no effect. Also I seem to get smashed buy melee hunters, like they 3-4 shot me while I tickle them with a feather, are all archers like this now? I assume no one tries melee scout so hard to tell, but what are rangers like for Inf and SBs?

Paladins are also hilariously strong but as they've spent nearly 20 years being utterly useless I have no complaints about that.

Obviously, I don't expect to win every fight but some of the imbalances are just silly right now, it's like having to learn an entirely new game with what is an impossible kill etc.

Don't get me wrong, the server is still decent, and it's doing ok for the game's age, but just seems like an uphill struggle

About SM. Their pet has been buffed so he takes way less damage when he intercept. With my NS Garotte did like 45 damage on him. I don't know about my Inf, because I am not even trying, I have no instant DD to be able to interrupt him. This may sound weird, but it helps more if you stop and cast on the SM. Afaik the pet needs to be really close and passiv helps a lot for the intercept. So if you go a bit away and start casting he has to use quickcast or send the pet to you. But yeah SM are really stupid to kill as a melee.

Hunter got buffed here after crying for month and now they are really strong. Especially the pet got a huge boost. Moves faster than sprint and hits now for around 120 damage while back then it did like 50-60 damage maybe. To top it off, their 2h hits me for like 250-300 depending on style.

Rangers are often the most played stealther online. They are really strong, especially the full melee rangers can be a very hard and long fight. For example, I did a /serverinfo on Wednesday EU Primetime. There were 53 Rangers on, 34 hunters, 33 SB, 26 Inf, 20 NS, 13 Scouts. We used to have 75 str/con and dex/quick charge buffs here, but the buffs got lowered while self buffs got stronger. So Rangers/Hunters are stronger now because of the better buffs. This lead to some Assassins quit or make a Ranger/hunter. I know some NS went to mid to play a hunter now.

Scouts are not strong in melee. I mean if they go high MoB etc, they will block and hold on for a while but they don't do much damage and will die in the end. I assume some are just trying to hold out and hope that someone helps them.

I wouldn't say Assassins are weak. I assume because you mention Assassins and you are Hib that you are a NS? The problem is, as NS and Inf to compete with SB, which has got a ton of buffs here and especially now the hunters too with the buffs you need slash (You do 10% more damage instead of 10% less). Slash is weak though to Chain. Vs Alb you will be neutral, so you only have a 10% loss here but vs. mid, slash is resistant. So you lose 20% damage here while they have a bonus damage on you, because everyone, even berserker go Hammer. I get 330-360 from Skalds 2h another 300 from the 2 instant dd's and 430-450 2h from Warriors. It is just a deletion of my healthbar. While you do like 85-90 with Garotte.

I played a NS for a while and quit because it was not really fun, especially for my playstyle. I am not a big fan of full CS, because I like to have some good anytimers. A big problem with NS in my opinion is, the lack of good abilities in the CD line. You have an anytimer with a shit growth Rate of 0,49 and still suffer the medium penalty. There are people saying CS are the best styles, as for Harmstring combo that is true about the damage, I do not agree on the anytimer. Besides that, with higher CD (Just like Inf can go 50 DW for a very good style) you also get a huge boost on your offhand hits. More offhand damage and more importantly, the attackspeed boost from your offhand. But like I said, atm you don't have that option to spec into high or full CD because the lack of Style damage ist just way too big. And trying to strafe and/or walk through enemies to land your sidestyles all the time is too annoying and not always garanteed.

Like all you just need to suck in your defeats now and grind yourself to high RR and it will be better. I just started playing Inf and I was on a big suicide mission this week, but I got from rr4 to rr5 and keep going to rr6, till I can respec to 50 DW with 34 CS and then maybe have a chance vs. those higher RR SB's or solo skalds.

Thu 4 Jul 2019 11:52 PM by Gohanssj

Well I'm glad I'm not just imagining it. But unessicary custom changes imo

Fri 5 Jul 2019 12:10 AM by Saroi

Gohanssj wrote: ↑
Thu 4 Jul 2019 11:52 PM
Well I'm glad I'm not just imagining it. But unessicary custom changes imo

Yeah but it is always perspective of people. You will have almost all SB saying that it is not true. That especially NS are way too OP. The argument is, that NS leather is resistant to slash. So you take 10% less damage. SB Leather is vulnerable to slash, so they take 10% more damage. And they want a change in armor resistant so the difference is 20% is not there anymore.

In a discussion on a stealther thread forum I said if you do that, you would have to buff NS because that is their only strength. And a good buff would be CD styles but of course people didn't like it.

There is also a post from someone asking for celt NS.

I mean I would be glad to have a change in armor table in general. All those Mid Vikings with hammer having 10% bonus damage hurts me more because of their 2h. But I would still like to NS be able to compete in somewhat. Not to mention playing NS and Inf now, missing like 150 HP to the SB is just huge. I feel kinda naked when I play my NS or Inf instead of my SB.

Fri 5 Jul 2019 12:11 AM by Loki

Saroi wrote: ↑
Thu 4 Jul 2019 11:39 PM
to compete with SB, which has got a ton of buffs here

Which buffs are we talking about here ?

Fri 5 Jul 2019 12:24 AM by Saroi

Loki wrote: ↑
Fri 5 Jul 2019 12:11 AM
Saroi wrote: ↑
Thu 4 Jul 2019 11:39 PM
to compete with SB, which has got a ton of buffs here

Which buffs are we talking about here ?

No LA Style penalty. Style is calculated from 100 base damage instead of your lower base damage.
LA Mainhand base start with 77,3% instead of 62,5% (15% bonus buff)

Just to name a few.

Fri 5 Jul 2019 12:39 AM by gotwqqd

Saroi wrote: ↑
Fri 5 Jul 2019 12:24 AM
Loki wrote: ↑
Fri 5 Jul 2019 12:11 AM
Saroi wrote: ↑
Thu 4 Jul 2019 11:39 PM
to compete with SB, which has got a ton of buffs here

Which buffs are we talking about here ?

No LA Style penalty. Style is calculated from 100 base damage instead of your lower base damage.
LA Mainhand base start with 77,3% instead of 62,5% (15% bonus buff)

Just to name a few.

That’s not a 15% buff
(77,3-62,5)/62,5=

Almost a 24% boost

Fri 5 Jul 2019 2:14 AM by vadox

Group with 8 spirit masters is unstoppable. True story. OP drinking Abydos koolaid

Fri 5 Jul 2019 4:38 AM by Loki

LA has it's own weaponskill, resulting in considerable miss/block/evade numbers each point less under composite 52. CD/DW takes their weaponskill from the main hand skill, which is high anyway. Yes with the last changes in LA numbers, I believe there was a 5% damage increase in unstyled damage, but LA styles lack utility. Compare them to DW's nice growth rate styles. Also a lot of SB start off with low LA specs, making it the wep skill difference even higher, along with only having strenght weapons.
I know even high RRs that still focus on CS. I think the reasons above were why LA had its algorithm modified, to compensate for lack of utility and different behavior.

Please share more buffs from that ton.

Fri 5 Jul 2019 5:52 AM by Saroi

Loki wrote: ↑
Fri 5 Jul 2019 4:38 AM
LA has it's own weaponskill, resulting in considerable miss/block/evade numbers each point less under composite 52. CD/DW takes their weaponskill from the main hand skill, which is high anyway. Yes with the last changes in LA numbers, I believe there was a 5% damage increase in unstyled damage, but LA styles lack utility. Compare them to DW's nice growth rate styles. Also a lot of SB start off with low LA specs, making it the wep skill difference even higher, along with only having strenght weapons.
I know even high RRs that still focus on CS. I think the reasons above were why LA had its algorithm modified, to compensate for lack of utility and different behavior.

Please share more buffs from that ton.

DW Nice growth Rate? LA has overall the best Growth Rate(Besides CS Harmstring). Evade has higher, Backchain has higher. Only thing higher is Dual Shadows compared to Doublefrost. And to top that off, most LA styles have a better hit bonus and don't suffer defense penalty like some DW/CD. Like high on backchain, while the Sidechain from DW has 0 hit chance and followup medium. The Backchain from DW has medium medium high but the damage is very low, first style has a growth Rate of 0,69 compared to 0,95 from Snowsquall.

Comparing my 3 Sneaks, SB has the highest Weaponskill. In fights, even if Saracen or Elf/Luri who has more dex, the Evade on both sides is pretty equal. Sometimes I even see SB have a higher number of dodge. There is absolutely no difference in that regard. Dual Wield block/evade chance has been changed here on this server anyway.

I don't know why most SB go CS, probably because of the Assassination. LA always was and had been the better option for straight 1v1 dueling power. Doublefrost is superior to Garotte but not to Achilles. If Achilles gets blocked/dodged/evade/miss you have to use Garotte again, suffering from the medium penalty. Only thing better is the Harmstring combo. But speccing high into LA gives you a double bonus because your base damage gets buffed too. This affects both Main and Offhand. The Offhand scaling has been buffed on this server too. Not to mention that the Con debuff has about the same health reduction as PA, unless you land a very good crit which is rare.

And since you want more: Poison has been changed to WS/Con instead of the Str/Con. This practically makes it totally necessary to have Slash as Inf/NS to do somewhat damage to SB. Everyone that goes Thrust to suffer the resistant in SB armor will just have a very hard time fighting.

LA 50 Style has got the 130 Cold procc, which is usually Berserker only. Just because some go high CS, doesn't mean that is not a buff. And if you go 50 LA, it is not that hard to execute since I do it all the time with my SB.

SB has got a ton of buffs, especially the Mainhand damage. I don't know how much more SB need or even want. Running around with 50 LA on my SB, I sometimes didn't even run in stealth because I didn't care for PA. Get my damage add on and that NS/Inf was mostly dead.

Besides all that. SB Mainhand weapon choice is superior to the others. You have a 4.2 Sword with Str/con debuff which stacks with your WS/Con, you have a 4.2 Axe with a dot proc which stacks with crafted alchemy + lifebane. And because they are feather items you can get a ton of them which is needed for the poison swap. Those weapons on the other realms have way more faster attackspeed which makes you suffer in damage, so they are not worth it. Especially NS have to run around with crafted weapons(For my weaponcrafter on Hib it was good because it gave me ton of plat). Atm with my Inf I have crafted weapons too. I saw on Albion there is one 4.2 Sword with a Lifetap proc. But since it is from feathers, the damage is 65 instead of the 95 normal DD from crafted or the 95 Rog damage.

Fri 5 Jul 2019 5:58 AM by Loki

what is this guy smoking lmao , NS and Infils need slash to do "somewhat damage" to SBs are you for real...

Fri 5 Jul 2019 5:59 AM by Loki

Where are you running, looking to get PAed as a SB ...please tell me, I wanna watch that

When you talk about this ton of buffs over and over again, was that in Beta or when ? I don't remember reading anything positive in a while, please make my day

Fri 5 Jul 2019 6:13 AM by Saroi

Loki wrote: ↑
Fri 5 Jul 2019 5:58 AM
what is this guy smoking lmao , NS and Infils need slash to do "somewhat damage" to SBs are you for real...

What am I smoking? Yeah good argument of saying something. Guess this debatte is over for me because with stuff like that I can't take you for real anymore. Have fun.

Fri 5 Jul 2019 6:20 AM by Loki

Saroi wrote: ↑
Fri 5 Jul 2019 6:13 AM
Loki wrote: ↑
Fri 5 Jul 2019 5:58 AM
what is this guy smoking lmao , NS and Infils need slash to do "somewhat damage" to SBs are you for real...

What am I smoking? Yeah good argument of saying something. Guess this debatte is over for me because with stuff like that I can't take you for real anymore. Have fun.

I see so you're one of those people looking to get offended to get out of a situation once people dig a little deeper.

Fri 5 Jul 2019 6:35 AM by Saroi

Loki wrote: ↑
Fri 5 Jul 2019 6:20 AM
Saroi wrote: ↑
Fri 5 Jul 2019 6:13 AM
Loki wrote: ↑
Fri 5 Jul 2019 5:58 AM
what is this guy smoking lmao , NS and Infils need slash to do "somewhat damage" to SBs are you for real...

What am I smoking? Yeah good argument of saying something. Guess this debatte is over for me because with stuff like that I can't take you for real anymore. Have fun.

I see so you're one of those people looking to get offended to get out of a situation once people dig a little deeper.

I am not offended nor did you"dig a little deeper" like I said you did not even make an argument or anything, just a stupid comment, that leaves no room for a normal debatte/converation. That is all. I have stated my arguments in my post without you saying anything against it.

If NS/Inf do not need slash to compete, why are there only slash once out? Which NS or Inf atm running is Thrust? Do you think they give away the Thrust bonus for free and take slash to get a 10-20% damage loss for almost everyone else?

Fri 5 Jul 2019 7:02 AM by Loki

Saroi wrote: ↑
Fri 5 Jul 2019 6:35 AM
I am not offended nor did you"dig a little deeper" like I said you did not even make an argument or anything, just a stupid comment, that leaves no room for a normal debatte/converation. That is all. I have stated my arguments in my post without you saying anything against it.

If NS/Inf do not need slash to compete, why are there only slash once out? Which NS or Inf atm running is Thrust? Do you think they give away the Thrust bonus for free and take slash to get a 10-20% damage loss for almost everyone else?

You didn't get offended by that one, you got offended by me asking what you're smoking, remember ? Don't worry, short time memory loss is a symptom .

So your main argument is all NS/Infis are slash because otherwise they wouldn't be able to compete with SBs so that makes SBs superior ? They're slash because they enjoy the damage boost, obviously. And you see it in numbers all the time , unless you're rr9 or something. While you're wondering why would anyone would play anything than slash, SBs dont have any other option. Maybe thats why there's a wep skill/con debuff sword , which I would put next to the d/q debuff hib one with no problem. Anyways, people have tested and the proc is close to useless unless it happens in first or second hit. If it didn't you can swap to anythting else. In addition to that, because of the damage difference caused by armor vulnerabilites, that drags MoP with it . Crits are smaller that oposing classes because they're capped at 50%.

On Phoenix with the adding sneaks policy, I rely on CS to burst and leave, Im not gonna count on LA reactionaries and hope for stuff to work out. I counted on SW after evade till rr6, which is the biggest joke someone played at my expense, I've never seen such a rare hitting style.Right now at 43+17 LA, at least Frosty Gaze lands more. And while you talk about the mainhand sword, you neglect that there are no good offhands and poeople try to cap their swing speed easier than dumping all RA points with MoA / aug quick by trying to find 2.4 speed ROGs which are as expensive as 20-25 plats (in Mid money thats a lot).

Also I am positive you havent played your SB since charges nerf, maybe even longer. Try to cap your evade rate now, and you'll quickly understand you can do at rr7 what a NS can do at rr4. With the nice custom after evade stun NS and Infis got, you need purge 5 but guess what - you can't have it. My evade is 28% at 500 from dex+qui, I meet NSs with up to 32%.

My question, which you ignore , remains. When did this ton of SB buffs happen, I must have missed it.

Anyways, thanks for the chat ... not sure what you get out of it, social points I suppose - you get to grand stand on the forums on how much better SBs are than everyone just because you have one that you'll never play anymore so changes dont affect you. Sounds like most of your arguments are from memory, I dunno . Please come back and run around RvR and get PAed for shits and giggles and prove me wrong.

Fri 5 Jul 2019 7:14 AM by SlowMo

I am playing Thrust Inf.

Rangers and Hunters are both pretty tough right now, I have to land PA and still depend on procc luck to beat them. With IP up its pretty much over (even with PA)

In about 90% I stand no chance vs SB not even close. NS are decent results - you can still loose if RNG hates you in that moment .-)
(All in an 1v1 scenario)

Would love to give slash a try, but I don´t have the ressources to fund this.

So overall it´s how it supposed to be, strong vs one (NS), weak vs another(SB) - I guess....

Fri 5 Jul 2019 7:27 AM by Loki

SlowMo wrote: ↑
Fri 5 Jul 2019 7:14 AM
Rangers and Hunters are both pretty tough right now

Being able to boost their self buffs and potion buffs furthermore with Mastery of the Arcane made them really tough.

Fri 5 Jul 2019 7:33 AM by Lillebror

Agree with OP

Sins PA/BS is low, specially PA, but from a stealther populasion i can understand.
Back in day it was only the sosial weak and sadomasochist, now God and everyone play stealther.

Only thing i feel SB have going for them is reapply with offhand every hit, and more hits.

Im not sure its worth it to spec high for PA (im 50cs and comp53 in weapon line) only thing i really want from it is the CD stun.

Ablatives is out of hand atm too

Fri 5 Jul 2019 7:45 AM by Saroi

Loki wrote: ↑
Fri 5 Jul 2019 7:02 AM
Saroi wrote: ↑
Fri 5 Jul 2019 6:35 AM
I am not offended nor did you"dig a little deeper" like I said you did not even make an argument or anything, just a stupid comment, that leaves no room for a normal debatte/converation. That is all. I have stated my arguments in my post without you saying anything against it.

If NS/Inf do not need slash to compete, why are there only slash once out? Which NS or Inf atm running is Thrust? Do you think they give away the Thrust bonus for free and take slash to get a 10-20% damage loss for almost everyone else?

You didn't get offended by that one, you got offended by me asking what you're smoking, remember ? Don't worry, short time memory loss is a symptom .

So your main argument is all NS/Infis are slash because otherwise they wouldn't be able to compete with SBs so that makes SBs superior ? They're slash because they enjoy the damage boost, obviously. And you see it in numbers all the time , unless you're rr9 or something. While you're wondering why would anyone would play anything than slash, SBs dont have any other option. Maybe thats why there's a wep skill/con debuff sword , which I would put next to the d/q debuff hib one with no problem. Anyways, people have tested and the proc is close to useless unless it happens in first or second hit. If it didn't you can swap to anythting else. In addition to that, because of the damage difference caused by armor vulnerabilites, that drags MoP with it . Crits are smalles that oposing classes because they're capped at 50%.

On Phoenix with the adding sneaks policy, I rely on CS to burst and leave, Im not gonna count on LA reactionaries and hope for stuff to work out. Sword after evade is the biggest joke someone played at my expense, I've never seen such a rare hitting style.Right now at 43+17 LA, at least Frosty Gaze lands more. And while you talk about the mainhand sword, you neglect that there are no good offhands and poeople try to cap their swing speed easier than dumping all RA points with MoA / aug quick by trying to find 2.4 speed ROGs which are as expensive as 20-25 plats (in Mid money thats a lot).

Also I am positive you havent played your SB since charges nerf, maybe even longer. Try to cap your evade rate now, and you'll quickly understand you can do at rr7 what a NS can do at rr4. With the nice custom after evade stun NS and Infis got, you need purge 5 but guess what - you can't have it.

Anyways, thanks for the chat ... not sure what you get out of it, social points I suppose - you get to grand stand on the forums on how much better SBs are than everyone just because you have one that you'll never play anymore so changes dont affect you.

And again I am not offended by you saying anything but seems it is hard for you to find connections to what people are saying. The part was just that your comment was stupid and therefor it is harder/useless to try have a conversation about something. I'll try my luck again and maybe you will understand. But if it makes you happy to try to offend people then let us say for your happiness I am totally offended and will punch a wall with all my offended rage.

The damage boost you are talking about is only vs a few like SB/hunter because of the weaker armor. The base damage of slash is lower, because especially Luri/Elf lack of strength. So having pierce for the better dex/str combined gives you more base damage and weaponskill. You don't get a damage boost vs. Mid chain. Skald is one of the most played class on this server and you also see them solo. I am hitting Mid chain with around 85-90 Garotte. If I were thrust I would be doing around 110 because I get a bonus. Thanks to my vulnerability to crush I am getting 330-360 2h hits from them + 300 damage from their instant dd's. I never have to face such damage as my SB. Note in this case, all Alb is neutral to slash, so you have no damage loss here. Hib scale is vulnerable to slash, so you do bonus damage to them. Chain is besides of cloth the most armor around. This is especially something for NS, because besides losing damage to a lot of Mid chars, they also lose damage to Alb chain or studded (Thrust vulnerable), which means minstrels or scouts as stealthers.

As for Alb, by going Slash I am losing damage to NS/Ranger, who seem to be so op looking at this forum. So why am I slash atm with my Inf? Because with slash I can still win vs. Rangers/NS. If I go thrust, I will have a way too hard time vs. SB's.

I have played my SB after the change and also in NF, guess what? My SB is way stronger now. It seems you haven't seen any of my posts in the stealther thread or anywhere. Before the charge nerf I have stated multiply times, that if you go dex/quick as a SB you gimp yourself. Leave that spot open for damage add charge. Now? I have a better dex/quick than before and I am able to use my damage add charge in every fight because no more af and str/con charge. Damage Add is the biggest buff that affects SB. Also I have purge 5. Purge 5 is the most important thing and the first thing I got. Not because of the stealthers because you also face a lot of slam enemies. The damage from SB is enough to take enemies down but you can't do that in stun.

I have played my SB in the NF test week and I had a lot of fights vs. Nesretnik who is an RR8 melee ranger. And they were great close fights with wins and loss on both sides. So much for not gonna play anymore or that the change doesn't affect me.

I get no points or anything, just like you don't get any by saying SB are weak. SB and Hunters have gotten a lot of buffs to compete and they are still the ones calling for nerfs on others. I am sorry but that is just ridiculous. If I play my SB I want enemies to have fun and good 1v1 and not nerfed to the ground enemies.

Fri 5 Jul 2019 8:02 AM by Loki

Saroi wrote: ↑
Fri 5 Jul 2019 7:45 AM
dilated pupils

Please some NS come here and tell me they are afraid of fighting Skalds, like this guy. There's a reason most NS videos are made of a third to half of skalds. No one passes on jumping one. Don't gimme that BS.

Also pretty sure Nesretnik was rr7 during the NF test, but then again we already established your memory is not that great. I've fought both him and Ifan, fights are tough and definitely need extra attention. Can't say I remember the outcome precisely, probably 60/40 for them off the top of my head.

So you're not playing your SB anymore because its so OP that you feel your enemies aren't having fun. That and earlier you said SBs are so good, you were just running in the open waiting to get PAed. And when I ask you when did these buffs happen, you have no response. You'd have to be crazy to say the charge nerf was a buff to SBs. I know a ton that have left because they thought it hit SBs stats the most. I guess they weren't as smart as you.

You are 100% doing this for social points, and its lame. Asshats like you make any conversation impossible. I'll be sure to check you SB profile the next month and so on, to see how much you have progressed. It's weird cus you say "so much for not gonna play anymore" but you also admit you wont play cus you want to spare your enemies. Delusional.

Fri 5 Jul 2019 9:18 AM by Loki

My bad guys, Mordred player ... Jesus, thank God. I was getting annoyed. Keep stabbing fear in your enemies' hearts , my dude.

Fri 5 Jul 2019 10:50 AM by Lillebror

You fight skalds because thats the visual class running out, together with thane and Champions and mids melee kings BD and SM

Fri 5 Jul 2019 11:13 AM by szputnyik

Gohanssj wrote: ↑
Thu 4 Jul 2019 3:08 PM
Why are Assassins so weak? can have really nice fights vs other assassins or jump a caster, but forget trying to fight any melee visible (other than a reaver which seems really weak as well for some reason), evade is practically 0 and the WS debuffs seem to have almost no effect [...]

Isn`t this supposed to be that way? As a non-stealther Melee I pretty much insist on stomping stealthers and having a natural advantage over them. If not, why would I play a Melee-Character other than Assassins? I would literally only give up stealth for some gimmicks with the difference that the stealther can choose his fights

Fri 5 Jul 2019 12:02 PM by Gohanssj

szputnyik wrote: ↑
Fri 5 Jul 2019 11:13 AM
Gohanssj wrote: ↑
Thu 4 Jul 2019 3:08 PM
Why are Assassins so weak? can have really nice fights vs other assassins or jump a caster, but forget trying to fight any melee visible (other than a reaver which seems really weak as well for some reason), evade is practically 0 and the WS debuffs seem to have almost no effect [...]

Isn`t this supposed to be that way? As a non-stealther Melee I pretty much insist on stomping stealthers and having a natural advantage over them. If not, why would I play a Melee-Character other than Assassins? I would literally only give up stealth for some gimmicks with the difference that the stealther can choose his fights

I agree with that logic to a point, assassins have perhaps been historically too strong, but if you get hit with a PA chains and dont purge stun or poisons you should have no chance, but I've had zerkers eat the chain, wait out the stun then smash me in 3 hits whole still on like 50%

There needs to be a balance otherwise no point playing stealthers, and if that's the aim just take stealth out the game altogether, archers and mincers will still be fine without stealth, and assassins will cease to exist

Fri 5 Jul 2019 12:19 PM by Sepplord

szputnyik wrote: ↑
Fri 5 Jul 2019 11:13 AM
Gohanssj wrote: ↑
Thu 4 Jul 2019 3:08 PM
Why are Assassins so weak? can have really nice fights vs other assassins or jump a caster, but forget trying to fight any melee visible (other than a reaver which seems really weak as well for some reason), evade is practically 0 and the WS debuffs seem to have almost no effect [...]

Isn`t this supposed to be that way? As a non-stealther Melee I pretty much insist on stomping stealthers and having a natural advantage over them. If not, why would I play a Melee-Character other than Assassins? I would literally only give up stealth for some gimmicks with the difference that the stealther can choose his fights

you trade stealth for groupability

i don't think stealth should just outright beat anyone else in a 1vs1, that would be boring too and noone would run around solo....but following your logic the stealth could only use his stealth to hide from everyone since they don't have a chance to beat them

Fri 5 Jul 2019 4:49 PM by

gruenesschaf

Saroi wrote: ↑
Fri 5 Jul 2019 12:24 AM
No LA Style penalty. Style is calculated from 100 base damage instead of your lower base damage.
LA Mainhand base start with 77,3% instead of 62,5% (15% bonus buff)

Just to name a few.

LA penalty / bonus never affected style damage, only base damage. Don't forget that the offhand was also lowered to 52.5. If you want to point out SB buffs you could take ws/con debuff instead of s/c

Fri 5 Jul 2019 5:29 PM by chois

i think im a masochist, i play a melee scout, sb are weaker than ns and from far far away by my experience, ns evade a lot of compared to sb, simple if the ns is 5L+ i m pretty sure im going to die, in slash or thrust, i tested the both. i clearly prefer duel a sb, even high rr than a ranger ns, hunter is 50/50.

Apparte :gohan, you were the infi during teh beta or im wrong? if yes i was skairipa the ranger shar, now i play scout briton

Fri 5 Jul 2019 5:37 PM by Gohanssj

hahah hey dude, yeah I heard you were playing a melee scout!! nut case. I did my time with one of those back on live, never again ><

Fri 5 Jul 2019 6:28 PM by Pops999

Oh look another buff stealthers post.

Sat 6 Jul 2019 2:21 PM by Saroi

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Fri 5 Jul 2019 4:49 PM
Saroi wrote: ↑
Fri 5 Jul 2019 12:24 AM
No LA Style penalty. Style is calculated from 100 base damage instead of your lower base damage.
LA Mainhand base start with 77,3% instead of 62,5% (15% bonus buff)

Just to name a few.

Don't forget that the offhand was also lowered to 52.5. If you want to point out SB buffs you could take ws/con debuff instead of s/c

I know, but you later buffed the scaling from offhand so it pretty much evens out again for the Offhand, while the Mainhand buff is big. I'd take a Mainhand buff for a Offhand nerf anytime. I have pointed out about the ws/con debuff too but seems not really to count as a good buff.

I have a question though. When you buffed the LA Mainhand base damage and lowered the Offhand, it was said that the damage increase per skill points has been changed. When the Offhand scaling got buffed, the offhand was at .34 and Mainhand still is .34. Does this mean the scaling back then did not get changed? It doesn't show any new number on that patch.

Sat 6 Jul 2019 4:39 PM by Mavella

So
Mainhand gained 15% base damage to start at 77.5
Offhand lost 10% base damage to start at 52.5
Scaling went from 0.34 for both hands to 0.34 mainhand and 0.52 offhand. (0.86% combined base dmg per lvl)
CD/DW went from 0.68% scaling to 0.86%

So there was a 5% LA buff but obviously there when considering the mainhand went up so much that benefits from high style GRs. The overall buff is likely somewhere between that 5-10% number depending on what style is being used.

Fairly sure all this happened the same patch.

Sat 6 Jul 2019 4:47 PM by Loki

Yes I remember this patch, I dont remember the ton of buffs though . Whatever

Sat 6 Jul 2019 5:07 PM by Mavella

Loki wrote: ↑
Sat 6 Jul 2019 4:47 PM
Yes I remember this patch, I dont remember the ton of buffs though . Whatever

There really was no "ton" of buffs to LA this was basically it and DW/CD got their scale increase at the same time.

Sat 6 Jul 2019 5:10 PM by teiloh

SM pets take a ton less damage from intercepts than they did on Live at this point and later even after they were buffed somewhat. SM pets used to die in several intercepts.

Sat 6 Jul 2019 5:44 PM by Loki

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Fri 5 Jul 2019 4:49 PM
If you want to point out SB buffs you could take ws/con debuff instead of s/c

Correct me if I'm wrong, doesn't a wep skill/con debuff make more sense across the board rather than a str/con debuff poison that puts classes that get their damage from Strenght alone vs classes that get it from Strenght/Dexterity at a disadvantage ? If this is the case, isn't it just a logical balance issue rather than a SB buff as you presented it . Seems to be just balancing a poison to work the same vs all melee classes rather than affecting Str/Dex classes less.

Sat 6 Jul 2019 7:09 PM by Saroi

Mavella wrote: ↑
Sat 6 Jul 2019 4:39 PM
So
Mainhand gained 15% base damage to start at 77.5
Offhand lost 10% base damage to start at 52.5
Scaling went from 0.34 for both hands to 0.34 mainhand and 0.52 offhand. (0.86% combined base dmg per lvl)
CD/DW went from 0.68% scaling to 0.86%

So there was a 5% LA buff but obviously there when considering the mainhand went up so much that benefits from high style GRs. The overall buff is likely somewhere between that 5-10% number depending on what style is being used.

Fairly sure all this happened the same patch.

Actually no. Mainhand / Offhand base damage was in Beta, pretty much at the end. And as I now asked Gruenesschaf, it was said that the scaling should be changed. But it is still .34 for Mainhand and was till the Offhand buff to .52 also .34. They wanted a theoretical 2% damage increase(Atleast that is what they say on the patch notes) but as you even say, the damage increase is more.

While at the beginning of the server a lot of SB's were complaining that the Offhand damage is a joke and speccing high LA is not worth it.
The Offhand scaling buffs from both LA and CD/DW came in at the beginning of March because of that.

As for the not ton of buff. Giving buffs to Mainhand is better than Offhands. As for the CD/DW buffs, this is only a bigger buffs for Infs, since they have the styles and skill points to spec high or go full DW. Even if you think CS styles are better there are NS who would like to have the option to have a reason to spec into high CD. Atm they are stuck around 60% Offhand hitchance, while Inf are higher. But you still don't always hit. When I fought you or other SB's, if I do not hit with my offhand, SB's are able to get 2 attacks between my rounds. And you hit me for around 150 Mainhand.

As Loki just wrote above, the ws/con debuff instead of Str/Con debuff is not a buff, it is "balancing" even though Gruenesschaf brought that up too as a buff. So you see, that is not even considered a buff even though it is. Balancing always means buffing something and/or nerfing something. But at the same instance he his calling the charge change a nerf, while it could be also considered by his logic with the WS/Con poison a balancing from non buff classes to selfbuff classes.

Not only would a str debuff hit you harder, you are also able to use that 4.2 sword for the WS/con and Str/con debuff stack. I am pretty sure they would not stack if both would be str.

Anyways everyone will "cry" over the others, as you see on this post it is from a Nightshade so I will stop the spam here of SB's. And somewhere else a guy said he wishes for NS buffs so he can come back. I will go be smoking my weird stuff again because apperently that is what I do.

Sat 6 Jul 2019 8:58 PM by Loki

All this "but but the self buff classes ! " argument for charge nerf was a transparent element perpetrated by devs and players to argue with each other and thus, make the change happen. You think I care as a Thane that my Str/Con is almost as good as a charge ? I never did, the pro is that I don't have to pay for it and I was fine with that. I will call anything that makes me lose on average 20 points of each stat + AF + 70 hp , some of them which I can make up through augment RAs, some of which I cant - a NERF .

The ws/con "buff" that you conveniently see as a SB buff is for any assassin fighting a Str/Dex class ... Like a NS vs a spear Hunter. Does that mean Nightshades got buffed ? No, it doesn't. It's just understanding the purpose of that poison and making it standard.

Yes you are smoking some stuff, I dont wanna make a list of all the ridiculous things you have said so far, a lot of it contradicting your own statements. The point is you are mocking valid arguments with your "I walk around RvR with my eyes closed waiting to get PAed " attitude. There's tons of posts of people getting ridiculed for valid arguments because of quitters like you who will never play a SB and have rerolled as NS/Inf. No one is crying for others to be nerfed as you put it, I just want the game to be fair and I wonder why some elements were introduced when they shouldnt have in the first place. While I'm here "crying" , I'm still out there every day, solo, trying to make things happen. So don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining.

Stop exaggerating so much and stay on point, it really makes you look bad and lowers your credibility.

Mon 8 Jul 2019 8:04 AM by Sepplord

Loki wrote: ↑
Sat 6 Jul 2019 5:44 PM
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Fri 5 Jul 2019 4:49 PM
If you want to point out SB buffs you could take ws/con debuff instead of s/c

Correct me if I'm wrong, doesn't a wep skill/con debuff make more sense across the board rather than a str/con debuff poison that puts classes that get their damage from Strenght alone vs classes that get it from Strenght/Dexterity at a disadvantage ? If this is the case, isn't it just a logical balance issue rather than a SB buff as you presented it . Seems to be just balancing a poison to work the same vs all melee classes rather than affecting Str/Dex classes less.

they never disputed that the change makes sense and is reasonable....but it is still a game change that benefitted us SBs more than NS/Inf, so it is a buff.
Buff/Nerf is simply the term of the effect a change has on classes/playstyles. It doesn't matter what the reason/root cause of the change was.

you even say yourself that you consider anything that lowers your stats a nerf, similarly any change beneficial to you should be called a buff, no?

Mon 8 Jul 2019 8:40 AM by Loki

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Mon 8 Jul 2019 8:04 AM
Loki wrote: ↑
Sat 6 Jul 2019 5:44 PM
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Fri 5 Jul 2019 4:49 PM
If you want to point out SB buffs you could take ws/con debuff instead of s/c

Correct me if I'm wrong, doesn't a wep skill/con debuff make more sense across the board rather than a str/con debuff poison that puts classes that get their damage from Strenght alone vs classes that get it from Strenght/Dexterity at a disadvantage ? If this is the case, isn't it just a logical balance issue rather than a SB buff as you presented it . Seems to be just balancing a poison to work the same vs all melee classes rather than affecting Str/Dex classes less.

they never disputed that the change makes sense and is reasonable....but it is still a game change that benefitted us SBs more than NS/Inf, so it is a buff.
Buff/Nerf is simply the term of the effect a change has on classes/playstyles. It doesn't matter what the reason/root cause of the change was.

you even say yourself that you consider anything that lowers your stats a nerf, similarly any change beneficial to you should be called a buff, no?

Yeah, I have a hard time taking such a change as a serious buff ... The decrease in stats is tangible, I can see it in my hp points, evade rate and my swing speed. Meanwhile I still miss 3 hits in a row with a 15% chance vs a rr4 NS, or fumble vs a 47 ranger with no vamps in sight. Not exactly a buff as real as armor vulnerability or a custom made after evade . The massive RNG during fights is more important than whatever minor boost you get from wep skill debuff vs strenght .

Mon 8 Jul 2019 8:46 AM by Sepplord

Loki wrote: ↑
Mon 8 Jul 2019 8:40 AM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Mon 8 Jul 2019 8:04 AM
Loki wrote: ↑
Sat 6 Jul 2019 5:44 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, doesn't a wep skill/con debuff make more sense across the board rather than a str/con debuff poison that puts classes that get their damage from Strenght alone vs classes that get it from Strenght/Dexterity at a disadvantage ? If this is the case, isn't it just a logical balance issue rather than a SB buff as you presented it . Seems to be just balancing a poison to work the same vs all melee classes rather than affecting Str/Dex classes less.

they never disputed that the change makes sense and is reasonable....but it is still a game change that benefitted us SBs more than NS/Inf, so it is a buff.
Buff/Nerf is simply the term of the effect a change has on classes/playstyles. It doesn't matter what the reason/root cause of the change was.

you even say yourself that you consider anything that lowers your stats a nerf, similarly any change beneficial to you should be called a buff, no?

Yeah, I have a hard time taking such a change as a serious buff ... The decrease in stats is tangible, I can see it in my hp points, evade rate and my swing speed. Meanwhile I still miss 3 hits in a row with a 15% chance vs a rr4 NS, or fumble vs a 47 ranger . Not exactly a buff as real as armor vulnerability or a custom made after evade .

uhhh?
yes?
what has it to do with the buff/nerf definiton?
now you are just rambling unreasonable responses...

Missrate also has nothing to do with weaponskill...and hitting the RNG-lottery 3times in a row on a 15%chance also has nothing to with why the 15% is a 15%

Mon 8 Jul 2019 8:56 AM by Loki

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Mon 8 Jul 2019 8:46 AM
uhhh?
yes?
what has it to do with the buff/nerf definiton?
now you are just rambling unreasonable responses...

Really, well I wasn't aware you presented a definition ... as for rambling, whatever you say ... No need to be this condescending, I see you're constantly lecturing others but now you're mocking me for some reason. Yes WEP SKILL DEBUFF was a HUUUUUGE SB buff, one that warrants your sarcasm completely. Now piss off .

Mon 8 Jul 2019 9:02 AM by Sepplord

Loki wrote: ↑
Mon 8 Jul 2019 8:56 AM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Mon 8 Jul 2019 8:46 AM
uhhh?
yes?
what has it to do with the buff/nerf definiton?
now you are just rambling unreasonable responses...

Really, well I wasn't aware you presented a definition ... as for rambling, whatever you say ... No need to be this condescending, I see you're constantly lecturing others but now you're mocking me for some reason. Yes WEP SKILL DEBUFF was a HUUUUUGE SB buff, one that warrants your sarcasm completely. Now piss off .

i never said it was a huge buff...you wanted to argue it wasn't a buff, just a change that makes sense....while at the same time saying yourself that you call any change that negatively effects you a nerf. Hypocrisy?

I also wasn't sarcastic, nor did i mock you. My last comment were pretty straight forward, yet you decide to move the goalpost and ramble about unrelated things to distract from the point.

Now piss off

Why would i when you are clearly intrested in replying to me again and again (<-- this is sarcasm, since you enjoy being lectured)

Mon 8 Jul 2019 9:06 AM by Loki

The clown above is another reason you can't have a discussion here. All this "you responded so clearly , you're triggered" millenial BS which only proves no one should ever try to discuss anything with you is pathetic.

We started off from some doofus saying SBs have received a ton of buffs , so much so that he walks around with his eyes closed and he even almost killed a blade ranger once and we got to this specimen trying to tell me that I misunderstood what a buff is . Waste of time.

Mon 8 Jul 2019 9:14 AM by Sepplord

Loki wrote: ↑
Mon 8 Jul 2019 9:06 AM
Waste of time.

why you keep wasting it then? I never mentioned you being triggered, no idea where you read that? And i never understood why "being triggered" would be an insult, but yeah keep assuming stuff if that makes you feel superior

There must be a reason, i got two peoples PMs telling me it's not worth trying to reason with you, and i am quite sure i am not getting those for being unreasonable myself

It told me not to put too much effort into refuting your BS though

Mon 8 Jul 2019 9:47 AM by Lillebror

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Fri 5 Jul 2019 4:49 PM
Saroi wrote: ↑
Fri 5 Jul 2019 12:24 AM
No LA Style penalty. Style is calculated from 100 base damage instead of your lower base damage.
LA Mainhand base start with 77,3% instead of 62,5% (15% bonus buff)

Just to name a few.

LA penalty / bonus never affected style damage, only base damage. Don't forget that the offhand was also lowered to 52.5. If you want to point out SB buffs you could take ws/con debuff instead of s/c

Why do mid get a 4.0 player made offhand, specialy when they have «100%» offhand hit? As far i can find alb slash is 3.2 and thrust 3.3

Mon 8 Jul 2019 11:23 AM by inoeth

"shockingly bad" must be very hard for assassins to actually be killable now.... after the were op for half a year, they could even kill tanks without pa.

maybe you should improve your playstyle, there are plenty of assassins that still are able to kill archers even when they use ip and purge.

btw i constantly read that hunter pets deal 120 dmg and the hunter itself 300, that is not the case... pets deal about 60-100 and spear around 150-200.
if you get dmged by 120/300 you should improve your resists and maybe consider to use a spec af.
on the other hand slash infis/rangers/ns deal 140 mh and 70 oh on swingcap while hunters are at around 2.2sec and the pet is somewhere around 3sec

Tue 9 Jul 2019 3:00 AM by Loki

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Mon 8 Jul 2019 9:14 AM
There must be a reason, i got two peoples PMs telling me it's not worth trying to reason with you

Not surprised you'd feel flattered and validated by people with this type of behavior :joy:

Wed 10 Jul 2019 12:30 PM by jelzinga_EU

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Mon 8 Jul 2019 8:04 AM
Loki wrote: ↑
Sat 6 Jul 2019 5:44 PM
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Fri 5 Jul 2019 4:49 PM
If you want to point out SB buffs you could take ws/con debuff instead of s/c

Correct me if I'm wrong, doesn't a wep skill/con debuff make more sense across the board rather than a str/con debuff poison that puts classes that get their damage from Strenght alone vs classes that get it from Strenght/Dexterity at a disadvantage ? If this is the case, isn't it just a logical balance issue rather than a SB buff as you presented it . Seems to be just balancing a poison to work the same vs all melee classes rather than affecting Str/Dex classes less.

they never disputed that the change makes sense and is reasonable....but it is still a game change that benefitted us SBs more than NS/Inf, so it is a buff.
Buff/Nerf is simply the term of the effect a change has on classes/playstyles. It doesn't matter what the reason/root cause of the change was.

Interesting point about the WS/CON debuff rather than STR/CON debuff. Initially you might think it is a buff to SB's, seeing as they do not get a choice of speccing a STR/DEX weapon-line.

The other side of the coin is a bit more trickier, but if the debuff stayed STR/CON more NS/INF would consider going Pierce/Thrust to have an advantage on the debuffs against Slash-users. This would have the advantage of fighting less Slash-NS/INF as a SB.

So is it really such a huge buff for SB? The buff isn't smaller for Slash/Blades INF/NS and the change might have pushed a lot of them towards Slash/Blades.

Currently it is a no-brainer for a NS/Ranger to go Blades. For good measures Horizontal Blade is also a stun so they have very little reason to spec Pierce if they mostly fight stealthers. The higher WS from Pierce means literally nothing if you got an automatic 20% malus to your damage fighting other assassins.

Wed 10 Jul 2019 3:00 PM by jelzinga_EU

Lillebror wrote: ↑
Mon 8 Jul 2019 9:47 AM
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Fri 5 Jul 2019 4:49 PM
Saroi wrote: ↑
Fri 5 Jul 2019 12:24 AM
No LA Style penalty. Style is calculated from 100 base damage instead of your lower base damage.
LA Mainhand base start with 77,3% instead of 62,5% (15% bonus buff)

Just to name a few.

LA penalty / bonus never affected style damage, only base damage. Don't forget that the offhand was also lowered to 52.5. If you want to point out SB buffs you could take ws/con debuff instead of s/c

Why do mid get a 4.0 player made offhand, specialy when they have «100%» offhand hit? As far i can find alb slash is 3.2 and thrust 3.3

Totally not interesting for SB's, only for zerks who have access to AugHealer (need Celerity). And when you look at Zerks, merc/BM has shield-spec, so is it really unfair zerks have access to a slower OH ?

Fri 12 Jul 2019 8:50 AM by Lillebror

There is plenty of Sb running 4.0+4.0

Fri 12 Jul 2019 11:09 AM by jelzinga_EU

Lillebror wrote: ↑
Fri 12 Jul 2019 8:50 AM
There is plenty of Sb running 4.0+4.0

That might be so - but they are gimping themselves. If you are into grouping with an auger as a SB it might be worth doing, otherwise it is a bad idea.