Animist range for summoning reduced to 300 units near keep/tower

Ummm. So does this mean the range is reduced by 300 units or max range is 300 from animist?

Because this completely kills the whole shroom mechanic when defending or attacking a keep / tower. If I can't do /groundset 950 to spread 3-4 tanglers on keep / tower takes to prevent non-SoS incs on our rams, or I can't cast any shrooms on ground level from floor 1 of a tower / keep to root / interrupt / attack enemies, wait what?

Either the wording is wrong, and you mean BY 300 units redux, or it's correct and we're stuck with 300 units to summon shrooms which simply is.... <mind blown>

IF this is really intended and will stick, then can we at least get Bombers to interrupt casts / bow firing because they aren't for some weird reason? Please.

/Bnotashamed + Aicha & Aichas

Fri 5 Jul 2019 2:48 PM by Ashok

The cast range to place a FnF turrent is reduced to 300 units.
Live-like behaviour.

Anelyn77 wrote: IF this is really intended and will stick, then can we at least get Bombers to interrupt casts / bow firing because they aren't for some weird reason? Please.

If you think something is not working as it should => https://tracker.playphoenix.online/issues

Fri 5 Jul 2019 2:53 PM by Anelyn77

Thanks for reply, I did fill in the bug report, hope you guys test it and come with a fix soon! <3

/Bnotashamed + Aicha + Aichas

Fri 5 Jul 2019 3:13 PM by Roto23

Anelyn77 wrote: ↑
Fri 5 Jul 2019 2:53 PM
Thanks for reply, I did fill in the bug report, hope you guys test it and come with a fix soon! <3

/Bnotashamed + Aicha + Aichas

How do you know they didn't use MOC?

Fri 5 Jul 2019 3:37 PM by Leandrys

Ashok wrote: ↑
Fri 5 Jul 2019 2:48 PM
The cast range to place a FnF turrent is reduced to 300 units.
Live-like behaviour.

Anelyn77 wrote: IF this is really intended and will stick, then can we at least get Bombers to interrupt casts / bow firing because they aren't for some weird reason? Please.
If you think something is not working as it should => https://tracker.playphoenix.online/issues

I am sorry, but looking at actual realm's population and when checking global behaving of shrooms and animists in keeps, this change is impossible to understand, Hibernia is terribly struggling at the moment with population, i am almost sure there are better things to change than "balancing" a dieing realm.

As a reminder, hib zerg has to deal with :

- Specific low realm population. 30 mins ago we were like 47 hibs for 120 mids lvl 50 in FZ. Yes, it's that bad.
- Massive use of TWF in zerg in enemy's realms, specially with Midgard as phoenix staff did the mistake to put TWF on one of the most popular classes in both pve and RvR. Combined with its actual range (cast range not limited to 300 in structures, see what i mean ?)
- Have to face one extremely overpopulated realm with two classes able to climbwall, including a very popular and strong one (A.K.A. savage).
- Borked group's compositions, few wardens, very few bards, main healer who has to spec buffs.
- Targeted first by enemy realms.
- Lack of leadership, once Pilzpower is gone (noticed he wasn't connected today ? Noticed we've had no BG since hours), nobody will lead the realm anymore.
- Poorly stuffed average people, 20k feathers = 8 plats here, most casual players arn't temp'ed and do not have legion's items.

Frankly, i'm pretty sure the server's staff can and should focus on something else than nerfing hibernia, we allready have to deal with a lot of specific problems, a lot of enemies have been exploiting flaws in LOS whole animists wern't exploiting any, honnestly, enough with nerfing please.

Fri 5 Jul 2019 4:20 PM by Shamissa

Leandrys wrote: ↑
Fri 5 Jul 2019 3:37 PM
Ashok wrote: ↑
Fri 5 Jul 2019 2:48 PM
The cast range to place a FnF turrent is reduced to 300 units.
Live-like behaviour.

Anelyn77 wrote: IF this is really intended and will stick, then can we at least get Bombers to interrupt casts / bow firing because they aren't for some weird reason? Please.
If you think something is not working as it should => https://tracker.playphoenix.online/issues

I am sorry, but looking at actual realm's population and when checking global behaving of shrooms and animists in keeps, this change is impossible to understand, Hibernia is terribly struggling at the moment with population, i am almost sure there are better things to change than "balancing" a dieing realm.

As a reminder, hib zerg has to deal with :

- Specific low realm population. 30 mins ago we were like 47 hibs for 120 mids lvl 50 in FZ. Yes, it's that bad.
- Massive use of TWF in zerg in enemy's realms, specially with Midgard as phoenix staff did the mistake to put TWF on one of the most popular classes in both pve and RvR. Combined with its actual range (cast range not limited to 300 in structures, see what i mean ?)
- Have to face one extremely overpopulated realm with two classes able to climbwall, including a very popular and strong one (A.K.A. savage).
- Borked group's compositions, few wardens, very few bards, main healer who has to spec buffs.
- Targeted first by enemy realms.
- Lack of leadership, once Pilzpower is gone (noticed he wasn't connected today ? Noticed we've had no BG since hours), nobody will lead the realm anymore.
- Poorly stuffed average people, 20k feathers = 8 plats here, most casual players arn't temp'ed and do not have legion's items.

Frankly, i'm pretty sure the server's staff can and should focus on something else than nerfing hibernia, we allready have to deal with a lot of specific problems, a lot of enemies have been exploiting flaws in LOS whole animists wern't exploiting any, honnestly, enough with nerfing please.

dieing realm? omg your post is just a joke LOL

Fri 5 Jul 2019 4:40 PM by Anelyn77

Roto23 wrote: ↑
Fri 5 Jul 2019 3:13 PM
Anelyn77 wrote: ↑
Fri 5 Jul 2019 2:53 PM
Thanks for reply, I did fill in the bug report, hope you guys test it and come with a fix soon! <3

/Bnotashamed + Aicha + Aichas

How do you know they didn't use MOC?

You are joking right? It's been well known that bombers don't interrupt casts / archery. It was fine when you could quickcast a shroom that could actually reach your enemy to rupt, now that you can't it's not fine.

Just go to any caster mob or duel any other caster / healer, they can do whatever they want through your bombs nuking them.

/Bnot + Aicha & Aichas

Fri 5 Jul 2019 4:42 PM by

gruenesschaf

Anelyn77 wrote: ↑
Fri 5 Jul 2019 4:40 PM
You are joking right? It's been well known that bombers don't interrupt casts / archery. It was fine when you could quickcast a shroom that could actually reach your enemy to rupt, now that you can't it's not fine.

Just go to any caster mob or duel any other caster / healer, they can do whatever they want through your bombs nuking them.

/Bnot + Aicha & Aichas

They do interrupt

Fri 5 Jul 2019 4:51 PM by Anelyn77

Will check it again then thanks, we had an eld dueling ani arbo, and eld was casting without problems through bombers. Much obliged and appreciate the reply, as soon as Gala is over will test myself again!

Also @DEVS could you consider increasing to 500 instead of 300? It won't allow shroom placement on walls still, but at least you can reach 1.5k range for pet (since pets / shrooms have 1k range themselves) so they can actually hit 1500 range casters / support? Thanks!

/Bnot + Aicha + Aichas

Fri 5 Jul 2019 7:30 PM by gotwqqd

Seems like it’s only going to stop animists attacking towers and keeps preventing them from putting pets on top of wall

Fri 5 Jul 2019 7:35 PM by Vkejai

Animists should be thankfull bombers go through un broken gates already.

Fri 5 Jul 2019 8:24 PM by Druth

Vkejai wrote: ↑
Fri 5 Jul 2019 7:35 PM
Animists should be thankfull bombers go through un broken gates already.

It's supposed to work like a DD, just back-loaded. It should go through gates.

What I found odd was shrooms on walls, and glad it was never intended, because it was making keep defense quite unfunny business.

Fri 5 Jul 2019 9:24 PM by Leandrys

Shamissa wrote: ↑
Fri 5 Jul 2019 4:20 PM
dieing realm? omg your post is just a joke LOL

Did you notice we've spent most of time really underpopulated today for example ? Or just trolling ?

17H15 PM today, EUR time :

Soooo...

Edit : Oh wait, i remember you :

It has been really frustrated lately how hibs abusing their power. But i also understand that the game allow them to do it so. Shrooms on top of towers/ck defended should not happened imo. Eldritch, Enchanters, Nightshades all kinds free casting through the walls of a defended keep.

Feel free to detail videos of these classes abusing of cast through class, otherwise you could be considered as throwing false informations, ty.

Fri 5 Jul 2019 9:41 PM by Vkejai

I had an animist once , cant remember what server or shard , that bombers would only go through gates when broken.

Fri 5 Jul 2019 11:31 PM by Anelyn77

Vkejai wrote: ↑
Fri 5 Jul 2019 9:41 PM
I had an animist once , cant remember what server or shard , that bombers would only go through gates when broken.

It is a nuke with delayed effect. If you have LoS on target and range, it should hit no matter how many doors / walls are in between. Same as any other cast spell.

/Bnot + Aicha & Aichas

Sat 6 Jul 2019 7:32 AM by jelzinga_EU

tbh this change is a sledge-hammer approach to the real problem.

The real problem is that it is frustrating to play against animists in keep-fights because their shrooms have no secondary LoS-check so once it has obtained a "lock" on you, even if it was a very brief milisecond it will hit you. Multiply that by 10X (or whatever the current shroom-cap is per area) and suddenly you end up with players instantly getting vaporized. Or interrupted. Anyhow, everyone who has ever played against an animist in a keepfight knows the frustration.

However, this nerf makes animists completely and utterly bad in keepfights. It is literally like playing a caster while you have a red nearsight on you. Sure, you're not useless, you're just almost useless.

I understand sacrifices need to be made and the need of the many outweigh the need of the few (animists) - and I acknowledge that animists where stupid in keepfights. However, this "solution" is a sledgehammer-approach to the problem and worst of all it doesn't even solve the real problem. I understand the real problem (no secondary LoS check) is hard/impossible to solve, but this solution is not the way to handle it.

Sat 6 Jul 2019 8:02 AM by Druth

jelzinga_EU wrote: ↑
Sat 6 Jul 2019 7:32 AM
tbh this change is a sledge-hammer approach to the real problem.

The real problem is that it is frustrating to play against animists in keep-fights because their shrooms have no secondary LoS-check so once it has obtained a "lock" on you, even if it was a very brief milisecond it will hit you. Multiply that by 10X (or whatever the current shroom-cap is per area) and suddenly you end up with players instantly getting vaporized. Or interrupted. Anyhow, everyone who has ever played against an animist in a keepfight knows the frustration.

However, this nerf makes animists completely and utterly bad in keepfights. It is literally like playing a caster while you have a red nearsight on you. Sure, you're not useless, you're just almost useless.

I understand sacrifices need to be made and the need of the many outweigh the need of the few (animists) - and I acknowledge that animists where stupid in keepfights. However, this "solution" is a sledgehammer-approach to the problem and worst of all it doesn't even solve the real problem. I understand the real problem (no secondary LoS check) is hard/impossible to solve, but this solution is not the way to handle it.

It is literally not like playing a caster with red nearsight, because animists have bombers spells..
The problem with animists, which was eventually fixed in Live, was that their whole class focus was around, and then nerfed around, their shrooms.

If the shrooms had been secondary to their class, and bombers had been the main focus, we would not have this discussion.

Sat 6 Jul 2019 9:14 AM by Anelyn77

First, shrooms don't benefit from your stats / buffs / ra's. They do check LoS between casts, they don't nuke through walls etc. Their dmg is broken, for an 179.5 delve nuke on blue FnF lvl 50 base creeping, they hit for like 70-90 dmg on 26% resist target (so even more less vs buffed body resists).

They are stationary, usually bunched in 1 spot or close together to be nullified with 1 aoe CC / nuke.

I adapted to the change, despite not considering 100% fair for animist in rvr (because it impacts open field fights as much as sieges if you are in vicinity of towers / keeps), but seriously now complaining about bombers, next what? Animist is rooted mezzed and stunned when enemies come in clipping range? <3

We want the game to be balanced, and everyone to have fun / good experience in RvR with their class.

/Bnot + Aicha + Aichas

Sat 6 Jul 2019 11:40 AM by Druth

Anelyn77 wrote: ↑
Sat 6 Jul 2019 9:14 AM
First, shrooms don't benefit from your stats / buffs / ra's. They do check LoS between casts, they don't nuke through walls etc. Their dmg is broken, for an 179.5 delve nuke on blue FnF lvl 50 base creeping, they hit for like 70-90 dmg on 26% resist target (so even more less vs buffed body resists).

They are stationary, usually bunched in 1 spot or close together to be nullified with 1 aoe CC / nuke.

I adapted to the change, despite not considering 100% fair for animist in rvr (because it impacts open field fights as much as sieges if you are in vicinity of towers / keeps), but seriously now complaining about bombers, next what? Animist is rooted mezzed and stunned when enemies come in clipping range? <3

We want the game to be balanced, and everyone to have fun / good experience in RvR with their class.

/Bnot + Aicha + Aichas

So much wrong in what you write, which makes it hard to have a constructive discussion.

Shrooms don’t need los between casts, only when a cast begins.
Shrooms nuke through walls if they started a cast on a target.
Shrooms nuke for roughly 200 on 26% res targets.
Shrooms have 600-800 hp, so they need more than one aoe cast.
Shrooms are bundled in one spot by choice of animist, and usually because it means insta kill on a target.

I don’t think you know your own class.

Sat 6 Jul 2019 12:15 PM by Anelyn77

LOL. Sorry buddy but what you said is simply not true. I am lvl 50 and my shrooms never hit for even 100 (lvl 50 FNF turret with 179 delve nuke) on 26% resist.

I will update with screens shortly.

Also they do not nuke through walls. They need LOS for every cast (and range too).

You can't have more than 16 in a given location from ALL animists present. In rvr you mainly put tanglers. Sure if you go 1v1 on bridge at crau, you will meet your random ani camping with stack of fnf.

Here it is lvl 50 FNF vs 26% resist dummy.

/Bnot + Aicha + Aichas

Sat 6 Jul 2019 1:26 PM by florin

My necro gets hit for 138 for about 20 times in a row as a blue con mob it stings

Sat 6 Jul 2019 1:28 PM by jelzinga_EU

Druth wrote: ↑
Sat 6 Jul 2019 11:40 AM
So much wrong in what you write, which makes it hard to have a constructive discussion.

Shrooms don’t need los between casts, only when a cast begins.

Correct, there is no secondary LoS check.

Shrooms nuke through walls if they started a cast on a target.

Correct, because of the first statement (no secondary LoS check)

Shrooms nuke for roughly 200 on 26% res targets.

Ehh what ? I let a few shrooms cast on the level 50 dummies outside Ligen, to test a few things. My shrooms did 340 casts on the dummies, these where the results, on 26% resists and level 50 Dummy:

minimum: 80
maximum: 117
average: 98
standard-dev: 10.7

I'm certain it is possible the dummies do not behave like players when it comes to damage taken, but it seems very far fetched they take, on average, half damage. I would go as far as that it impossible.

Shrooms have 600-800 hp, so they need more than one aoe cast.

Should an enemy get rid of an (entire pack of) shrooms by 1 AoE ?

Shrooms are bundled in one spot by choice of animist, and usually because it means insta kill on a target.
I don’t think you know your own class.

Shrooms do not assist, but if there is only 1 target in range/LoS they will, obviously. And since the same spot generally means the same target and it is much more convenient than (re)setting groundtargets between casts, a lot of times they get stacked.

And yes, I understand the frustration of playing against an animist in a keep-fight, but these changes are nothing but a sledgehammer approach to make keepfights more enjoyable for the masses. I can agree to some extent that is(was) needed, but rather than fixing secondary LoS and being able to properly interrupt shrooms would go a long way.

Sat 6 Jul 2019 1:40 PM by Anelyn77

I am positive shrooms don't keep target once they got los, easy to check on bridge, put shrooms next to bridge wall at one entrance, and have someone run through, they will get hit maximum once (by each fnf of course).

2nd example: planting shrooms FNF next to hastener at keep / tower door, someone coming out will only get hit once if they click door and go back in, shrooms won't continue casting on them (with that person being only target in range, no guards or other players).

Am not making stuff up, am relating what I experience playing my animist in sieges.

/Bnotashamed + Aicha & Aichas

Sat 6 Jul 2019 1:47 PM by Wooshh

Tired of shrooms on walls i hope this will fix

Sat 6 Jul 2019 1:52 PM by Anelyn77

Wooshh wrote: ↑
Sat 6 Jul 2019 1:47 PM
Tired of shrooms on walls i hope this will fix

It did "fix" shrooms on walls, however enjoy NM / TWF on walls, with much love <3

/Bnotashamed + Aicha & Aichas

Sat 6 Jul 2019 2:47 PM by Patron

Nerfing animist in this way is not smart. Even some crybabies cannot handle this old class.
Animists are made for keepfights and a USP of Hibernia. Why anis is not allowed to put shrooms in top of wall?
Allowed is what the engine can do.

Deal with it. And yeah... Twf & nm are still dangerous and placeable on walls.
Dear staff, dont let yourself make a tool against hibernia from crybabies.

Sat 6 Jul 2019 3:38 PM by florin

Good but probably too late

Sat 6 Jul 2019 4:23 PM by Shamissa

Is not like you cant cast a shroom or your damn toys anymore, all animist still have that and your damn spells if you know how to play well.
Now this crying because a 300 should end really. And you know if anyone get close to them and try to cast , it will be interrupted, unless we have a great mezz on them. Otherwise bbye bg and hibs still win.

And btw Anelyn you crying a lot about this. Just dont come back to mid for while ok? Stay in hib for you own sake.

Sat 6 Jul 2019 4:28 PM by Gweinyth

Shamissa wrote: ↑
Sat 6 Jul 2019 4:23 PM
Is not like you cant cast a shroom or your damn toys anymore, all animist still have that and your damn spells if you know how to play well.
Now this crying because a 300 should end really. And you know if anyone get close to them and try to cast , it will be interrupted, unless we have a great mezz on them. Otherwise bbye bg and hibs still win.

And btw Anelyn you crying a lot about this. Just dont come back to mid for while ok? Stay in hib for you own sake.

The problem that Anelyn has been pointing out is the this change has a huge negative effect on animist. An ani can place a shroom 300 units away with a 1000 unit range. The enemy has a 1500 range so shrooms will not reach the enemy rendering them useless.

Edit: You are suggesting that animist just "use their damn spells" . How about we tell that same thing to all other pet classes. Let's tell BD's and Theurg they should forget their pets and just cast their damn spells. Shrooms are a major part of the class.

Sat 6 Jul 2019 4:42 PM by Shamissa

Gweinyth wrote: ↑
Sat 6 Jul 2019 4:28 PM
Shamissa wrote: ↑
Sat 6 Jul 2019 4:23 PM
Is not like you cant cast a shroom or your damn toys anymore, all animist still have that and your damn spells if you know how to play well.
Now this crying because a 300 should end really. And you know if anyone get close to them and try to cast , it will be interrupted, unless we have a great mezz on them. Otherwise bbye bg and hibs still win.

And btw Anelyn you crying a lot about this. Just dont come back to mid for while ok? Stay in hib for you own sake.

The problem that Anelyn has been pointing out is the this change has a huge negative effect on animist. An ani can place a shroom 300 units away with a 1000 unit range. The enemy has a 1500 range so shrooms will not reach the enemy rendering them useless.

Edit: You are suggesting that animist just "use their damn spells" . How about we tell that same thing to all other pet classes. Let's tell BD's and Theurg they should forget their pets and just cast their damn spells. Shrooms are a major part of the class.

Hehe you a hib huh? Yeah i was a hib once too i played hib sweetie and played animist i know what animist can Do LOL. I would be fine with just casting spells. Please dont send me anymore or i will report you.

Sat 6 Jul 2019 4:46 PM by Gweinyth

Shamissa wrote: ↑
Sat 6 Jul 2019 4:42 PM
Gweinyth wrote: ↑
Sat 6 Jul 2019 4:28 PM
Shamissa wrote: ↑
Sat 6 Jul 2019 4:23 PM
Is not like you cant cast a shroom or your damn toys anymore, all animist still have that and your damn spells if you know how to play well.
Now this crying because a 300 should end really. And you know if anyone get close to them and try to cast , it will be interrupted, unless we have a great mezz on them. Otherwise bbye bg and hibs still win.

And btw Anelyn you crying a lot about this. Just dont come back to mid for while ok? Stay in hib for you own sake.

The problem that Anelyn has been pointing out is the this change has a huge negative effect on animist. An ani can place a shroom 300 units away with a 1000 unit range. The enemy has a 1500 range so shrooms will not reach the enemy rendering them useless.

Edit: You are suggesting that animist just "use their damn spells" . How about we tell that same thing to all other pet classes. Let's tell BD's and Theurg they should forget their pets and just cast their damn spells. Shrooms are a major part of the class.

Hehe you a hib huh? Yeah i was a hib once too i played hib sweetie and played animist i know what animist can Do LOL. I would be fine with just casting spells. Please dont send me anymore or i will report you.

You are going to report me for responding to your post? What are you 5 years old?

Sat 6 Jul 2019 6:23 PM by Anelyn77

Shamissa wrote: ↑
Sat 6 Jul 2019 4:23 PM
Is not like you cant cast a shroom or your damn toys anymore, all animist still have that and your damn spells if you know how to play well.
Now this crying because a 300 should end really. And you know if anyone get close to them and try to cast , it will be interrupted, unless we have a great mezz on them. Otherwise bbye bg and hibs still win.

And btw Anelyn you crying a lot about this. Just dont come back to mid for while ok? Stay in hib for you own sake.

Am really disappointed to hear that from you. You must have misunderstood my post(s).

/Bnotashamed + Aicha & Aichas

Sat 6 Jul 2019 8:32 PM by ExcretusMaximus

Shamissa wrote: ↑
Sat 6 Jul 2019 4:42 PM
Hehe you a hib huh? Yeah i was a hib once too i played hib sweetie and played animist i know what animist can Do LOL. I would be fine with just casting spells. Please dont send me anymore or i will report you.

For what? Responding to a public post you made on a public forum?

And he's right; the shrooms on walls thing needed to be fixed, but taking a sledgehammer to the class because of one issue in one scenario is poor balancing.

Sat 6 Jul 2019 10:23 PM by Patchnotes

Since we are nerfing stuff at keeps and towers.

At keeps and towers:

Theurgists: Please make it so Theurgist pets die after moving 500 units away from the caster, and Alb can only have 15 theurgist pets total in a 2k range.
Necro: Please make it so the Necro pet and the shade cant cast or use RAs if 500 units away or dont have LoS of each other
Bonedancer: Please make it so that BD pets die if they move 500 units away
Savage: please make it so savages cannot climb walls only Zerkers or make it so a 2nd class from Alb and hib can climb as well.

These are all even nerfs to the Animist nerfs. I am fine with the animist nerf but they should not be alone with special changes to towers and keeps.

Sat 6 Jul 2019 11:34 PM by Leandrys

Gweinyth wrote: ↑
Sat 6 Jul 2019 4:46 PM
You are going to report me for responding to your post? What are you 5 years old?

This person lacks knowledge about the game and comprehension of its core mechanics, plus he is really angry and posting most of time under that state of mind, he's been spreading wrong feedbacks and fake stories (I quoted earlier in this thread a ridiculous reply he made four days ago where he is totally BS'ing about chanters, eldies, mentas and nightshades free casting through walls and animists dropping shrooms without LOS), just do not mind him anymore, you can see what he aims at with this kind of reply.

He's not part of the discussion, he doesn't even try to be, just trolling in poor disguise.

Sat 6 Jul 2019 11:49 PM by Gweinyth

Leandrys wrote: ↑
Sat 6 Jul 2019 11:34 PM
Gweinyth wrote: ↑
Sat 6 Jul 2019 4:46 PM
You are going to report me for responding to your post? What are you 5 years old?

This person lacks knowledge about the game and comprehension of its core mechanics, plus he is really angry and posting most of time under that state of mind, he's been spreading wrong feedbacks and fake stories (I quoted earlier in this thread a ridiculous reply he made four days ago where he is totally BS'ing about chanters, eldies, mentas and nightshades free casting through walls and animists dropping shrooms without LOS), just do not mind him anymore, you can see what he aims at with this kind of reply.

He's not part of the discussion, he doesn't even try to be, just trolling in poor disguise.

You are talking about the person I responded to and not me correct?

Sun 7 Jul 2019 12:23 AM by Keltar

Patchnotes wrote: ↑
Sat 6 Jul 2019 10:23 PM
Since we are nerfing stuff at keeps and towers.

At keeps and towers:

Theurgists: Please make it so Theurgist pets die after moving 500 units away from the caster, and Alb can only have 15 theurgist pets total in a 2k range.
Necro: Please make it so the Necro pet and the shade cant cast or use RAs if 500 units away or dont have LoS of each other
Bonedancer: Please make it so that BD pets die if they move 500 units away
Savage: please make it so savages cannot climb walls only Zerkers or make it so a 2nd class from Alb and hib can climb as well.

These are all even nerfs to the Animist nerfs. I am fine with the animist nerf but they should not be alone with special changes to towers and keeps.

Hmm, Minstrels? So it's Hib without a second class... I pick VWs!

Mon 8 Jul 2019 6:38 AM by Sepplord

Everyone conveniently ignoring the fact that if svg didn't exist, all savages would be bersis and viceversa, and the total amount of climbing characters wouldn't change at all...
Albion having a utility class with climbwalls seems not to be an issue that reates problems at all though

and both hib/alb having slam-characters climbing the walls also is disregarded all the time.

That said, isn't this thread about animists? Crossquote from another thread about this change:

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Mon 8 Jul 2019 6:32 AM
Animist abusing it, are ruining it for all other players (including other animists that get nerfed into oblivion along with the exploiters)...reporting doesn't really work, since you don't know whos shrooms are nuking you, unless you die...and then it is still hard to prove that it was one of the exploit shrooms doing the deathblow to you. So enforcement against exploiting animist is really hard/tedious.

The castrange nerf is not a perfect fix, and i am quite sure the devs would prefer a different option, but looking back they have probably put in loads of time trying to make it work right and everytime [they try a fix/change] players still find ways to put shrooms that isn't intended. So we probably got to a point where they decided: "okay, we'll use the sledgehammer now. If we can figure out a better way later - good, if not this will still overall be better for the server than letting shrooms like they are"

Mon 8 Jul 2019 11:43 AM by Vkejai

Anelyn77 wrote: ↑
Fri 5 Jul 2019 11:31 PM
Vkejai wrote: ↑
Fri 5 Jul 2019 9:41 PM
I had an animist once , cant remember what server or shard , that bombers would only go through gates when broken.

It is a nuke with delayed effect. If you have LoS on target and range, it should hit no matter how many doors / walls are in between. Same as any other cast spell.

/Bnot + Aicha & Aichas

Ok I will try again , if the doors on a keep are not broken , my animist wouldn't have been able to hit someone if he was in a tower and the enemy was outside. Now you get me ??

Mon 8 Jul 2019 1:26 PM by Anelyn77

Yeah got it, but that was stupid if it worked like that, as bombers are nukes, if you have los / range on target they should hit, like any other spell really, their only weakness or advantage - depending how you look at it, is that the dmg is delayed and not instant.

/Bnot + Aicha & Aichas & Aichaa

Mon 8 Jul 2019 1:37 PM by Sepplord

Anelyn77 wrote: ↑
Mon 8 Jul 2019 1:26 PM
Yeah got it, but that was stupid if it worked like that, as bombers are nukes, if you have los / range on target they should hit, like any other spell really, their only weakness or advantage - depending how you look at it, is that the dmg is delayed and not instant.

/Bnot + Aicha & Aichas & Aichaa

Yeah got it, but it makes sense if it worked like that, as bombers are pets, if you have available pathing to your target they can go there, like any other pet really, their only weakness or advatage - depending how you look at it, is that they die on their first hit but burst all dmg

See how that works both ways...i mean, i agree with you and bombers should be able to go through doors balancewise, but your statement isn't really delivering good argument for that.

Mon 8 Jul 2019 2:24 PM by Anelyn77

They are pets? Can you target them and nuke them down? Like theurg pets? I doubt it. Plus they last 20s (so they will never hit or catch up someone at speed 5 or 6). But yeah tbh I don't really care, they can make bombers not go through doors and it will still be fine, even if ALL OTHER PETS CAN GO THROUGH DOORS (theurg, bd, caba, sorc, minstrel, menta, enchanter etc).

Anyway, even if they remove completely the animist class from rvr or even game, this won't change anything as far as sieges go.
Peeps will still aoe / GTAOE / dump RA's on walls and in rooms, but nobody talks about it because all 3 realms enjoy doing it so it's... "fine". My only point was that 300 range for small / 8m blows if you engage in a fight near a keep or tower and if you deny that then bias much I guess? Siege is a completely diff story and am fine with no shrooms on walls / rooms, even if theurg can spam pets that reach you wherever and any summoned pet can go in and do stuff, but it has a larger impact on animist rvr viability (which is already small compared to rest of hib casters).

Much love <3

/Bnot + Aicha

Mon 8 Jul 2019 2:30 PM by Sepplord

Anelyn77 wrote: ↑
Mon 8 Jul 2019 2:24 PM
They are pets? Can you target them and nuke them down? Like theurg pets? I doubt it. Plus they last 20s (so they will never hit or catch up someone at speed 5 or 6). But yeah tbh I don't really care, they can make bombers not go through doors and it will still be fine, even if ALL OTHER PETS CAN GO THROUGH DOORS (theurg, bd, caba, sorc, minstrel, menta, enchanter etc).

Anyway, even if they remove completely the animist class from rvr or even game, this won't change anything as far as sieges go.
Peeps will still aoe / GTAOE / dump RA's on walls and in rooms, but nobody talks about it because all 3 realms enjoy doing it so it's... "fine". My only point was that 300 range for small / 8m blows if you engage in a fight near a keep or tower and if you deny that then bias much I guess? Siege is a completely diff story and am fine with no shrooms on walls / rooms, even if theurg can spam pets that reach you wherever and any summoned pet can go in and do stuff, but it has a larger impact on animist rvr viability (which is already small compared to rest of hib casters).

Much love <3

/Bnot + Aicha

oh, i don't disagree with your point at all...i also think the change isn't a good one, though i am quite sure the devs know so too and are just using this as a sure stop for now, while they work on other options /better fixes. I have explained it here better:

https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=10144&start=30#p75983

sorry if that wasn't clear

Mon 8 Jul 2019 5:58 PM by Horus

But an entire bone army can still run through two locked doors and attack you a mile away, ignoring los. At least you can get out of range of shrooms.

Mon 8 Jul 2019 7:40 PM by Vkejai

Anelyn77 wrote: ↑
Mon 8 Jul 2019 1:26 PM
Yeah got it, but that was stupid if it worked like that, as bombers are nukes, if you have los / range on target they should hit, like any other spell really, their only weakness or advantage - depending how you look at it, is that the dmg is delayed and not instant.

/Bnot + Aicha & Aichas & Aichaa

I agree with you that's why I said originally its lucky they still have it. Still cant remember when or what server or live that decision was made... hmm

Mon 8 Jul 2019 8:21 PM by Anelyn77

Vkejai wrote: ↑
Mon 8 Jul 2019 7:40 PM
Anelyn77 wrote: ↑
Mon 8 Jul 2019 1:26 PM
Yeah got it, but that was stupid if it worked like that, as bombers are nukes, if you have los / range on target they should hit, like any other spell really, their only weakness or advantage - depending how you look at it, is that the dmg is delayed and not instant.

/Bnot + Aicha & Aichas & Aichaa

I agree with you that's why I said originally its lucky they still have it. Still cant remember when or what server or live that decision was made... hmm

It was another shard (which make their own rules). It was never on live.

/Bnot + Aicha

Mon 8 Jul 2019 9:15 PM by Horus

Actually some of these custom changes are starting to become concerning. Do things seem really unbalanced in terms of realm vs realm? To me it doesn't.

Yet Hib seems to be getting the nerf bat directly or indirectly a bit too often for comfort. One of these straws is going to break the camel's back.

1. Custom TWF already indirectly negatively affects hib. Soo many BDs
2. Light tank climb wall. Zerks and Savages
3. Volley nerf...ranger is popular class.
4. Custom Earth line for wizards..stacking AE DoTs with Cabby.
5. Now animist nerf

Taken individually these are not big things...but in the context of the overall RvR formula they have a more complex effect.
I just didn't notice any evidence in terms of NF RvR that indicated this needed to take place. Who care how things are on live? I understand it can be quoted as a baseline but that means nothing in the context of a classic based custom server.

Hopefully there are not unforeseen negative consequences...

Mon 8 Jul 2019 9:27 PM by Leandrys

Tonight there was a point where Hibernia as more than minus 100 players than Alb, and 60 compared to Mid approx.

Surprised, right ?

Tue 9 Jul 2019 4:46 AM by Vkejai

5.40 am gmt, hib have most population. It does fluctuate .

Tue 9 Jul 2019 5:32 AM by Druth

Leandrys wrote: ↑
Mon 8 Jul 2019 9:27 PM
Tonight there was a point where Hibernia as more than minus 100 players than Alb, and 60 compared to Mid approx.

Surprised, right ?

First of all, ask people to change their circadian rhythm, because now Hib has most people.

But more importantly, work to improve stuff like animist bombers, which clearly should interrupt.

Tue 9 Jul 2019 5:53 AM by Leandrys

Vkejai wrote: ↑
Tue 9 Jul 2019 4:46 AM
5.40 am gmt, hib have most population. It does fluctuate .

No, it doesn't simply "fluctuate", right now population is 43 albs, 73 mids, 80 hibs for example.

Waow, hib is clearly dominating operations, problem is when they're not, just like yesterday all day long, they were dominated by Albion for example, not by 37 players, but 120 and Midgard had at the same time 64 players more.

Our BG reached the total impressive number of 3 groups, 10 PM European time.

Impressive, ikr. We wiped. Surprising, ikr. While is was a special case that even surprised myself, even if it's not that brutal most of time, it doesn't negates the fact the realm is in huge danger of collapsing for good.

But let's nerf Hib, NP. Oh look, cool, your bomber now interrupts, don't you complain.

Meanwhile, it's impossible to defend any tower against Midgard, because someone thought it was a good idea to give that realm's most popular caster a deadly combo of two devastating RAs in structures, A.K.A. TWF AND NM.

But it's, no nerf. He.

At the point TWF has reached now in terms of running gag and auto win button, i'd simply like to see it retired for every realms from the game, let's stop that comedy, i'm not even talking from Midgard, nobody should have such a tool in structures.

Tue 9 Jul 2019 6:24 AM by Patron

Its not smart staff nerfed animist and it is not smart to nerf twf and nm.
Nerfing is a leading down stair and the most reason player leave. Not only here, i saw it on UO, Uth1, Genesis, Uth2 and now here.
Realms need powerfull abilitys which can turning fights. Otherwise it make no sense to spec them.

Im done

Tue 9 Jul 2019 6:25 AM by Druth

Leandrys wrote: ↑
Tue 9 Jul 2019 5:53 AM
At the point TWF has reached now in terms of running gag and auto win button, i'd simply like to see it retired for every realms from the game, let's stop that comedy, i'm not even talking from Midgard, nobody should have such a tool in structures.

I agree, it needs either lower damage, drops when caster dies, and/or lower range.

Problem is that warden and reavers are not very good classes, so nerfing TWF makes them even worse of.

Tue 9 Jul 2019 6:27 AM by Druth

Patron wrote: ↑
Tue 9 Jul 2019 6:24 AM
Its not smart staff nerfed animist and it is not smart to nerf twf and nm.
Nerfing is a leading down stair and the most reason player leave. Not only here, i saw it on UO, Uth1, Genesis, Uth2 and now here.
Realms need powerfull abilitys which can turning fights. Otherwise it make no sense to spec them.

Im done

You forget that the server is not moving to introduce new powerful abilities/items, to counter things.
So if something is dominating RvR they only have one tool, nerf.

I guess a solution could be to give 3 classes in each realm Group Essence Resist.

Tue 9 Jul 2019 6:29 AM by Sepplord

Horus wrote: ↑
Mon 8 Jul 2019 9:15 PM
1. Custom TWF already indirectly negatively affects hib. Soo many BDs
2. Light tank climb wall. Zerks and Savages
3. Volley nerf...ranger is popular class.
4. Custom Earth line for wizards..stacking AE DoTs with Cabby.
5. Now animist nerf

1. aren't all the custom changes NERFS to TWF? i agree though that it is unfun in sieges (Despite me only playing sieges with my BD and being on both ends...whenever i attack a defended castle there are TWFs for minutes straight after doors go down.)
2. i agree that lighttanks shouldn't be climbing walls, but midgard doesn't have twice as many lighttanks just because they have two lighttank classes. If there was no bersi all bersis would be zerkers and vice versa. Hib/Alb have SLAM-tanks that can climb...that's a far bigger issue imo. Lighttanks should never have gotten climbing, but it isn't midgard that primarily benefits
3. yeah, ranger is a popular class ....go figure...clearly a sign of hib being disadvantaged...i don't think bringing up rangers helps in this line of argumentation
4. nothing to add
5. i agree that animist need something to compensate the nerf (and i believe they are working on something), the shrooming was terribly unfun to play against and it'S good they finally found a way to keep the exploiters in check. In the same reasoning TWF could be adjusted though...

Tue 9 Jul 2019 6:58 AM by Patron

Druth wrote: ↑
Tue 9 Jul 2019 6:27 AM
Patron wrote: ↑
Tue 9 Jul 2019 6:24 AM
Its not smart staff nerfed animist and it is not smart to nerf twf and nm.
Nerfing is a leading down stair and the most reason player leave. Not only here, i saw it on UO, Uth1, Genesis, Uth2 and now here.
Realms need powerfull abilitys which can turning fights. Otherwise it make no sense to spec them.

Im done

You forget that the server is not moving to introduce new powerful abilities/items, to counter things.
So if something is dominating RvR they only have one tool, nerf.

I guess a solution could be to give 3 classes in each realm Group Essence Resist.

And in your pov hib dominate rvr because hib can place shrooms in 1k range which can cast 1k and can be castet witz ae mezz, ae stun and aoe spells in 1.5k range?
So in conclusion, hib dominate cause enemys dont know how to counter shrooms. Weak argue imho

Tue 9 Jul 2019 7:32 AM by Druth

Patron wrote: ↑
Tue 9 Jul 2019 6:58 AM
And in your pov hib dominate rvr because hib can place shrooms in 1k range which can cast 1k and can be castet witz ae mezz, ae stun and aoe spells in 1.5k range?
So in conclusion, hib dominate cause enemys dont know how to counter shrooms. Weak argue imho

Shrooms were not supposed to be on ramparts, the possibility was removed in OF, and that animists then started again in NF was unfortunate, but a "nerf" had to happen. They could even place them where no light tanks could reach, inner keep and oil area. So Hibs were the only realm that could control those areas while attacking.

You do not have 1500 range in sieges, everything is close quarters.
Take inner keep roof, shrooms up, and now every mid that sticks their head out gets damaged. There is no place you can safely cast on them.
So the 1500 range is a... weak argument? When talking about sieges, because you are doing "paper DaoC".

Animists should still be able to place their main pet, just like all pet classes can send in pets inside keeps.
And animists can still use shrooms while defending keeps.

Tue 9 Jul 2019 12:41 PM by ExcretusMaximus

Druth wrote: ↑
Tue 9 Jul 2019 6:25 AM
Problem is that warden and reavers are not very good classes, so nerfing TWF makes them even worse of.

They're both great classes, they're just not as ubiquitous as Bonedancers.

Tue 9 Jul 2019 2:15 PM by Horus

One of the many variables in the downfall of the other classic shard was the perception (even if incorrect) that there was realm favoritism by dev.

This may be (and most likely was) totally incorrect.... but it just illustrates the effect perception can have. Best to take note...

Conspiracy theories can spread like fire...

Tue 9 Jul 2019 2:19 PM by Leandrys

At the moment, both classes are closer from a dead weight than a "great class" for most Pugs and random guild groups to be honnest.

Tue 9 Jul 2019 2:28 PM by Druth

Horus wrote: ↑
Tue 9 Jul 2019 2:15 PM
One of the many variables in the downfall of the other classic shard was the perception (even if incorrect) that there was realm favoritism by dev.

This may be (and most likely was) totally incorrect.... but it just illustrates the effect perception can have. Best to take note...

Conspiracy theories can spread like fire...

Hibernia holds the top 5 weekly RP, every week, and the top 20 total rps is completely dominated by hibs.

But then again Albs has 5 relics now, so I don't feel the Devs favor Hibs that much.

Tue 9 Jul 2019 2:31 PM by Gweinyth

I think the common conspiracy theory on Hib is that the devs from the beginning of live to the current ones on Pheonix favor mid.

Tue 9 Jul 2019 3:15 PM by Sepplord

Horus wrote: ↑
Tue 9 Jul 2019 2:15 PM
One of the many variables in the downfall of the other classic shard was the perception (even if incorrect) that there was realm favoritism by dev.

This may be (and most likely was) totally incorrect.... but it just illustrates the effect perception can have. Best to take note...

Conspiracy theories can spread like fire...

The only way to combat a conspiracy theorie effectively is with another conspiracy theorie

Midgard is the favorable realm, that's why they get celerity and AOEstun and 2lighttanks (which clearly means twice as many lighttank players) and lighttanks are OP everyone knows

Hibernia is OP because they need to be OP because they run so long to emain. Devs clearly favor them otherwise shrooms would have been nerfed earlier and lets not even start talking about baseline stun and bards

Albion is OP because why else would they have heals, CC and speed in their stealthgroups, another class that has lifeleech, mezz, root, speed AND a pet...ohh soo many pets in albion

Everyone can pick which one they prefer the most and if we are lucky it will balance out. What won't work, that was tried, is reason

Tue 9 Jul 2019 3:18 PM by Sleepwell

Each realm theorizes that their realm is penalized and the other realms are glorified. The funny part is watching how the shift happens when people quit one realm and play another

Tue 9 Jul 2019 3:53 PM by ExcretusMaximus

Sleepwell wrote: ↑
Tue 9 Jul 2019 3:18 PM

This may legitimately be the best .gif ever made.

Tue 9 Jul 2019 4:32 PM by Horus

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Tue 9 Jul 2019 3:15 PM
Horus wrote: ↑
Tue 9 Jul 2019 2:15 PM
One of the many variables in the downfall of the other classic shard was the perception (even if incorrect) that there was realm favoritism by dev.

This may be (and most likely was) totally incorrect.... but it just illustrates the effect perception can have. Best to take note...

Conspiracy theories can spread like fire...
The only way to combat a conspiracy theorie effectively is with another conspiracy theorie

Midgard is the favorable realm, that's why they get celerity and AOEstun and 2lighttanks (which clearly means twice as many lighttank players) and lighttanks are OP everyone knows

Hibernia is OP because they need to be OP because they run so long to emain. Devs clearly favor them otherwise shrooms would have been nerfed earlier and lets not even start talking about baseline stun and bards

Albion is OP because why else would they have heals, CC and speed in their stealthgroups, another class that has lifeleech, mezz, root, speed AND a pet...ohh soo many pets in albion

Everyone can pick which one they prefer the most and if we are lucky it will balance out. What won't work, that was tried, is reason

I agree.

But it is one thing to compare baselines vs changes after the fact. If you create a server and say "Here are our rules and how things work". That minimizes any "conspiracy" ideas from the get go because you have said "this is what it is" and everyone knows going in what the rules are.

Where things go awry is when you start making changes after the fact that can be cited as "evidence" that the changes seem to more often to negatively affect one realm over the other, It opens the door for some to come to the conclusion that those making the changes just don't like a certain realm or prefer a certain realm. Buff vs Nerfs inspire more conspiracy than base line rules.

Tue 9 Jul 2019 7:25 PM by Sleepwell

Arguments can be made for each and every one though depending on perspective, but more often depending on the realm you play.

I play solely mid. I primarily play a charge tank, that has no charge. I don't like not having charge, but i accept it. I would prefer to have a shield and be able to slam things and stun them then wail away at them, but i understood that their concept doesnt fit my wants. If i was to flip to hib or alb on a whim and delete all my characters on mid, im sure within 2 weeks i would have something that i find unacceptable about either of the other two realms.

The devs and team did give the idea of their concept, but it has evolved. NF wasnt on the table until enough complained that they wanted it. Even if you had their concept and tried to adjust to it, by the time you adapted, it would morph once again.

A main concern of mine has always been that i hope they do not make the big mistakes that live made. Making drastic changes has harsh effects. Teenie, minuscule changes are more easily digested. Chip away at the ice sculpture instead of hitting it with the wrecking ball :-)

Wed 10 Jul 2019 3:42 AM by Leandrys

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Tue 9 Jul 2019 3:15 PM
Midgard is the favorable realm, that's why they get celerity and AOEstun and 2lighttanks (which clearly means twice as many lighttank players) and lighttanks are OP everyone knows

You're wrong, at the moment hibernia has 5 light tanks connected, Albion 6, Midgard 31. Much more than simply x2 lire light tanks players. Following your reasonning, of course, does it mean midgard's light tanks are OP ?

Could it be ?

Wed 10 Jul 2019 4:04 AM by ExcretusMaximus

Leandrys wrote: ↑
Wed 10 Jul 2019 3:42 AM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Tue 9 Jul 2019 3:15 PM
Midgard is the favorable realm, that's why they get celerity and AOEstun and 2lighttanks (which clearly means twice as many lighttank players) and lighttanks are OP everyone knows

You're wrong, at the moment hibernia has 5 light tanks connected, Albion 6, Midgard 31. Much more than simply x2 lire light tanks players. Following your reasonning, of course, does it mean midgard's light tanks are OP ?

Could it be ?

Or, it could be that almost every Hib/Alb group runs nothing but caster debuff trains because they're broken on Phoenix, while Mids are too stubborn to play what is "best" and instead play what they enjoy the most.

Wed 10 Jul 2019 5:47 AM by Leandrys

Yeah, Midgard loves the beauty of DAOC, must be the reason, of course it is. So many people does, that's why they play SVG/skalds/shamies, beauty of the true gaming art.

Wed 10 Jul 2019 6:13 AM by Sepplord

my hypothesis to this are two factors:

a) Midgard is known for being "the melee realm" so ofcourse melee-players will flock to that realm, and then choose there between the available options. There's also the misconception that castergroups aren't that good in midgard, so more players are pushed into the melee role. And most want to DPS.

b) the playerbase in midgard that wants to try a lighttank actually does so, instead of being discourage by the common theme of not grouping melees. Not during levelling and also mostly not during RvR neither

Midgard having two options for lighttanks has very little to do with their lighttank population. Following that logic, shouldn't alb be completely overpopulated since they have more classes overall?

Wed 10 Jul 2019 6:42 AM by Druth

As long as you can be debuffed to the negative, I don't think light tanks is an issue

Wed 10 Jul 2019 12:58 PM by ExcretusMaximus

Leandrys wrote: ↑
Wed 10 Jul 2019 5:47 AM
Yeah, Midgard loves the beauty of DAOC, must be the reason, of course it is. So many people does, that's why they play SVG/skalds/shamies, beauty of the true gaming art.

Have you played Midgard here? Try getting a non-zerg group as a caster, it doesn't happen unless you know someone. Everyone wants to play the "push until you die" style because it's easier than extending, and having healers who can keep casters up is a luxury many don't have access to. Without the overabundance of pets or the imbalance of where your debuffs are located, Mids would rather run tanks; it's just easier to split and shove than it is to CC and extend.

But hey, you go on believing it's some grand conspiracy.

Thu 11 Jul 2019 1:58 AM by Leandrys

Yes, i've played mid, i've started on mid to be frank, and dfeleted all of my stuff for reasons told before.

It's not your caster's fault if it's not invited, it's the general broken balance of mid's tanks, other realms arn't responsible for it.

Thu 11 Jul 2019 1:28 PM by Horus

I've always thought Mid had the best casters. So much packed into a couple classes (rm/sm)

BDs are there own thing but obviously powerful as they are a mini zerg within the mid zerg all by themselves.