Thoughts on EV?

Started 26 Jun 2019
by Kaseylol
in RvR
I think, based on current population and the recent of/nf vote, a good solution to promote fun, active rvr of all types and satiate both sides of the poll, EV should be the primary rvr zone.

Essentially, the two main keeps on the NF side of EV bridge, the tower, then the docks should be considered for DF and claimable. This means, for example, berk and benowyc are active and claimable but the rest of the keeps are disabled. The port to EV tower would be a part of the chain. Taking berk would disable all porting (people would generally run down from EV safe port, but can also boat up from Excalibur, for example).

This fixes a lot of issues. First, it reduces the amount of total keeps that can be taken, somewhat removing this whole pvkeep problem where realms make a BG, chain all the keeps, then log their alt into DF to level for hours. Having less and more tightly located keeps will make keeping df and avoiding fights less easy, promoting more active rvr between realms.

This also gives the center EV island a great focal point for 8v8 and zerg vs zerg, keeps the OF chokepoint idea with the ev milegates, gives enough options to port or run from ev or relic keep areas, and focuses the action to the upper top of the rw map for all realms, helping solo and smallman find each other.

This is also a great way to manage the rvr zone for population, as if the population is higher, and people are complaining it feels zergy, for example, we can simply enable the next two keeps on the north side of the RW map. If it goes down again, they get disabled. This keeps the focus in and around ev but allows expansion based on population.

Lastly, this focused us on what I'd love to see as well - a claimable pve raid under EV that has serious benefits to having. Maybe xp boost for the realm, Rp boost, pve bonus, central port, whatever the case. Maybe even a port to a 50 dungeon from ev if owned, or any other sort of custom fun pve/rvr hybrid that promotes rvr action in the future.

Right now there are just too many keeps. Too much benefit to just zerging down a realm taking keeps for hours then logging df knowing it'll take a long time to get them back. If we tighten that up it will make it a lot more enticing for people to defend keeps as only a couple keeps means DF changes hands. EV is the perfect open roam area, surrounded by keeps, with milegate choke points, to appease the majority of the server.

Thoughts?




You could even set eras or boldiam as the "PK" or primary keep, that can't be taken but can always be ported to, and have players primarily port there or EV safe zone and boat or run into action. For example, you could always port to Eras, but to port to beno or any EV tower, you would need the chain of ERAS (PK) - berk - beno - alb EV tower - any other realm tower. A similar chain of berk as PK, beno first keep, EV tower would be good for centralized action with reduced keep count too. If possible, DF could also factor towers in so that the keep count and map size is reduced but there's still the possibility of taking DF by sniping towers in a bg or small/8man.

This would make the rvr zone centrally located to EV and expanded to this area for each realm




Thu 27 Jun 2019 9:30 AM by Nunki
Some well thought out ideas! Thanks for your work. I would love to see some of these changes in the far future.
Thu 27 Jun 2019 10:38 AM by Stoertebecker
There`s the middle keep on EV on live. The realm that owns the middlekeep can port directly to EV. It turns neutral every few hours, and is part of the Otherworld Campaign on live. The docks were points to capture too and a place for collection-tasks.

Making EV a solo/smallmen bonus area is not a bad idea.
Setting up the middlekeep for a 2nd entrance to DF could be another one.
And/or another task, this capture the flag thing wasn`t bad at all


Atm is EV wasted space.
Thu 27 Jun 2019 3:10 PM by Kaseylol
Last night during NA prime was a perfect example of the issue. 6+ mid groups in a BG vs, at most, 2 groups of hibs and mids.

Normally, when you outnumber the enemy realm to that extent, groups will avoid fighting such a huge zerg and the rvr action will die, the zergs rps will go down, and the large BG will have incentive to break off into groups or find something else to do.

With the keep take rewards and amount of keeps this issue doesn't exist. This massive bg just chained keeps and towers with no incentive to offer a fair fight. If the other realms entirely logged off they could still simply chain keeps and get plenty of rps.

Reducing the amount of keeps will help with this issue a lot. The current meta of keep take bg just isn't in the spirit of daoc. It's PvDoor zergfest with nowhere near good enough balancing mechanics to promote fun fights for all realms. Additionally, the loss of the OF milegate took away a very good tool that smaller groups can use to try and fight a zerg; the EV milegate would bring this back as a zerg choke point.

Truthfully, people didn't like OF for the same reason, but NF did nothing to address the issue.
Thu 27 Jun 2019 3:20 PM by Boric
"Normally, when you outnumber the enemy realm to that extent, groups will avoid fighting such a huge zerg and the rvr action will die, the zergs rps will go down, and the large BG will have incentive to break off into groups or find something else to do. "

In your last thread you promoted 0 Realm Timer so you could switch from the Zerg Realm and Defend the tower/keeps (and claimed others would follow suit) being the underdog with the huge RP% gain. In this thread you are reinforcing the idea that if you are the underdog you will avoid the fights and rvr action will die.
Thu 27 Jun 2019 3:20 PM by Kaseylol
Stoertebecker wrote:
Thu 27 Jun 2019 10:38 AM
There`s the middle keep on EV on live. The realm that owns the middlekeep can port directly to EV. It turns neutral every few hours, and is part of the Otherworld Campaign on live. The docks were points to capture too and a place for collection-tasks.

Making EV a solo/smallmen bonus area is not a bad idea.
Setting up the middlekeep for a 2nd entrance to DF could be another one.
And/or another task, this capture the flag thing wasn`t bad at all


Atm is EV wasted space.

Yes! The idea of a central keep really falls in like with the spirit of daoc, the keep porting system, centralized action, and a primary motive for rvr groups to have. Just putting 100 keeps over giant zones is not at all what daoc should be about.

I know there's a big fear of turning the server into a BG from the Phoenix staff but the declining population over the last year should make it very obvious that the current system just isn't fun. If an instant 50 thidranki BG server popped up I have zero doubts people would flock to it. There's a reason thidranki is so popular on this and all servers - its the closest thing to old school daoc fun that we'll ever have.

With the current playerbase using EV as the sort of BG and expanding out just makes way too much sense. If staff even read these posts..
Thu 27 Jun 2019 3:23 PM by Kaseylol
Boric wrote:
Thu 27 Jun 2019 3:20 PM
"Normally, when you outnumber the enemy realm to that extent, groups will avoid fighting such a huge zerg and the rvr action will die, the zergs rps will go down, and the large BG will have incentive to break off into groups or find something else to do. "

In your last thread you promoted 0 Realm Timer so you could switch from the Zerg Realm and Defend the tower/keeps (and claimed others would follow suit) being the underdog with the huge RP% gain. In this thread you are reinforcing the idea that if you are the underdog you will avoid the fights and rvr action will die.

Yep, because people can't switch at all now. Do you think the hib and alb groups just ran into the mid zerg over and over last night? We mostly avoided them entirely and fought each other, with the occasional keep or tower defense thrown in. It's all we could do.

If there were no keep take rewards, or way less keeps, I have zero doubts the mid BG would have died off because they would not have made very many rps from players at all.

I also never promoted a 0 realm timer, but okay!
Thu 27 Jun 2019 3:42 PM by Stoertebecker
Kaseylol wrote:
Thu 27 Jun 2019 3:20 PM
Stoertebecker wrote:
Thu 27 Jun 2019 10:38 AM
There`s the middle keep on EV on live. The realm that owns the middlekeep can port directly to EV. It turns neutral every few hours, and is part of the Otherworld Campaign on live. The docks were points to capture too and a place for collection-tasks.

Making EV a solo/smallmen bonus area is not a bad idea.
Setting up the middlekeep for a 2nd entrance to DF could be another one.
And/or another task, this capture the flag thing wasn`t bad at all


Atm is EV wasted space.

Yes! The idea of a central keep really falls in like with the spirit of daoc, the keep porting system, centralized action, and a primary motive for rvr groups to have. Just putting 100 keeps over giant zones is not at all what daoc should be about.

I know there's a big fear of turning the server into a BG from the Phoenix staff but the declining population over the last year should make it very obvious that the current system just isn't fun. If an instant 50 thidranki BG server popped up I have zero doubts people would flock to it. There's a reason thidranki is so popular on this and all servers - its the closest thing to old school daoc fun that we'll ever have.

With the current playerbase using EV as the sort of BG and expanding out just makes way too much sense. If staff even read these posts..

The population is stable since NF release at eu-primetime, 1500+.

I wouldn`t do too much with EV atm, just a bit, but it needs a reason to go there. Its a nice designed area.
If the population drops more it could be a place to concentrate action, like they did on live.

Btw, the staff reads all.
Thu 27 Jun 2019 3:45 PM by Kaseylol
Stoertebecker wrote:
Thu 27 Jun 2019 3:42 PM
Kaseylol wrote:
Thu 27 Jun 2019 3:20 PM
Stoertebecker wrote:
Thu 27 Jun 2019 10:38 AM
There`s the middle keep on EV on live. The realm that owns the middlekeep can port directly to EV. It turns neutral every few hours, and is part of the Otherworld Campaign on live. The docks were points to capture too and a place for collection-tasks.

Making EV a solo/smallmen bonus area is not a bad idea.
Setting up the middlekeep for a 2nd entrance to DF could be another one.
And/or another task, this capture the flag thing wasn`t bad at all


Atm is EV wasted space.

Yes! The idea of a central keep really falls in like with the spirit of daoc, the keep porting system, centralized action, and a primary motive for rvr groups to have. Just putting 100 keeps over giant zones is not at all what daoc should be about.

I know there's a big fear of turning the server into a BG from the Phoenix staff but the declining population over the last year should make it very obvious that the current system just isn't fun. If an instant 50 thidranki BG server popped up I have zero doubts people would flock to it. There's a reason thidranki is so popular on this and all servers - its the closest thing to old school daoc fun that we'll ever have.

With the current playerbase using EV as the sort of BG and expanding out just makes way too much sense. If staff even read these posts..

The population is stable since NF release at eu-primetime, 1500+.

I wouldn`t do too much with EV atm, just a bit, but it needs a reason to go there. Its a nice designed area.
If the population drops more it could be a place to concentrate action, like they did on live.

Btw, the staff reads all.

I don't mean since nf release, I mean overall.

I'm also not convinced live really did anything to concentrate action on EV at first. It was just the most fun area to rvr in so people went there.

Hoping the same happens here but who knows.

https://unixgeek.com/phoenix.html
Thu 27 Jun 2019 4:13 PM by ExcretusMaximus
A lot of people can't go anywhere near EV without lagging like it's 2001 all over again.

Fix the issues and maybe this idea will work.
Thu 27 Jun 2019 4:17 PM by Stoertebecker
ExcretusMaximus wrote:
Thu 27 Jun 2019 4:13 PM
A lot of people can't go anywhere near EV without lagging like it's 2001 all over again.

Fix the issues and maybe this idea will work.

It`s lagging there because under EV is still the structure of the older Agramon, and under that is the even older first version of Agramon.
Even on live we had the same problems, not as bad as here, but it was still lagging and pets were running mad.
Thu 27 Jun 2019 4:42 PM by Runental
At the moment, no major changes please.
NF is up 2 days, not even a relic raid yet.
let the days go by and see how it's going.
Thu 27 Jun 2019 4:51 PM by Kwall0311
The center of EV should be the new "solo" area, instead of the ruins/maze of each realm as it currently is. Port groups away that try to enter. Ppl will still team up or stealth zerg, but its better than the current option.

Before you say this isnt a solo game. Sure thats right, but this also isnt 15 years ago with 100's of thousands of subs. Theres maybe 100-200 people in the frontier and you ALWAYS run into the same ppl.

People claim the devs ideas/changes push people away. But i guarantee a lot of the casuals left, who dont have time or paitence build groups, or care to be chased down and zerged. If you cant clearly see why thats an issue for people, i dunno what to say.

There should be an option for all play styles. But hey, keep zerging those players down, and keep lowering the population.
Thu 27 Jun 2019 5:01 PM by Kaseylol
Kwall0311 wrote:
Thu 27 Jun 2019 4:51 PM
The center of EV should be the new "solo" area, instead of the ruins/maze of each realm as it currently is. Port groups away that try to enter. Ppl will still team up or stealth zerg, but its better than the current option.

Before you say this isnt a solo game. Sure thats right, but this also isnt 15 years ago with 100's of thousands of subs. Theres maybe 100-200 people in the frontier and you ALWAYS run into the same ppl.

People claim the devs ideas/changes push people away. But i guarantee a lot of the casuals left, who dont have time or paitence build groups, or care to be chased down and zerged. If you cant clearly see why thats an issue for people, i dunno what to say.

There should be an option for all play styles. But hey, keep zerging those players down, and keep lowering the population.

I think the devs here think that zerg battlegroups are a large amount of players so changing anything for solo that hurts them just reduces player count.

Now, months later, the entire server is just keeptake bgs afk taking keeps for rp rewards. This isn't even daoc anymore, at least not a version of daoc that will have many players ever again.
Thu 27 Jun 2019 5:41 PM by Stoertebecker
Kwall0311 wrote:
Thu 27 Jun 2019 4:51 PM
The center of EV should be the new "solo" area, instead of the ruins/maze of each realm as it currently is. Port groups away that try to enter. Ppl will still team up or stealth zerg, but its better than the current option.

Before you say this isnt a solo game. Sure thats right, but this also isnt 15 years ago with 100's of thousands of subs. Theres maybe 100-200 people in the frontier and you ALWAYS run into the same ppl.

People claim the devs ideas/changes push people away. But i guarantee a lot of the casuals left, who dont have time or paitence build groups, or care to be chased down and zerged. If you cant clearly see why thats an issue for people, i dunno what to say.

There should be an option for all play styles. But hey, keep zerging those players down, and keep lowering the population.

It is 2019, 18 years after release. If there is one thing i know for sure than that there are tons of other games where you can play 1v1 without getting added. Games that suit 1v1 more, games that have a better gfx, a better ui etcetc.
I don`t understand that ppl are always trying to change the game to thier own benefits instead of searching a game that fits.
It`s a mmorpg, the world is huge and each player has to make compromisses, if you can`t make compromisses the genre isn`t for you.

Ppl wanna run solo, don`t wanna interact or share with other ppl? No prob go for it.
But do it then in all parts of the game.
Where is the logic running in the same level or tg/galadoria group together, and 20 min later you flame your realmmate for adding a fight?
Thats selfishness as its finest and a lousy character trait.
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