Scout love - Phoenix Freeshard

When are Scouts gonna Get some Love?
Problem with Scout
No penetrating arrow if its in the game it does not Work.
No crit shot on Mezzed targets, or targets in combat. Why can i be PA'ed by 5 shadow blades but i cant return the favor?
Specing 50 bow is not a option because damage doesn't change enough.
Slam is worthless it is purged everytime when you have a 5 min purge timer.

Ways we can fix scout.
Change Scout damage table on bow where its worth specing 50 bow.
Drop a couple of the restrictions you put on archers. Penetrating arrow and Crit on targets in combat.
Change our melee Damage table so its not worthless.
More spec points.

In any other realm the archer can be a melee toon but not Alb Scout are reliant on 2 things Crazy bow damage and Slam, but here on Phoenix Bow damage Is crap and Slam gets purged 90% of the time so what have you left the scout.

Sat 22 Jun 2019 7:05 PM by Druth

Not saying it's fair... but I'm against scouts getting buffs when the alb stealth groups have minstrels.

The stealth dynamic/balance has to account for minstrels, and that makes albs far superior, so to buff any of the other two alb stealthers would make it even more unbalanced.

Albs need buffs, it seems, but stealth is not one of the areas.

Sat 22 Jun 2019 10:15 PM by Hejjin

Druth wrote: ↑
Sat 22 Jun 2019 7:05 PM
Not saying it's fair... but I'm against scouts getting buffs when the alb stealth groups have minstrels.

The stealth dynamic/balance has to account for minstrels, and that makes albs far superior, so to buff any of the other two alb stealthers would make it even more unbalanced.

Albs need buffs, it seems, but stealth is not one of the areas.

Hmmm

So because we have Minstrels we cannot have a little help for Scouts? Using similar logic, Midgard duel wield classes should not have received any help due to Mids having Savages, nor should Mid light tanks be able to climb walls because again they have savages...Where do you draw the line?

Sun 23 Jun 2019 12:59 AM by Luluko

Hejjin wrote: ↑
Sat 22 Jun 2019 10:15 PM
Druth wrote: ↑
Sat 22 Jun 2019 7:05 PM
Not saying it's fair... but I'm against scouts getting buffs when the alb stealth groups have minstrels.

The stealth dynamic/balance has to account for minstrels, and that makes albs far superior, so to buff any of the other two alb stealthers would make it even more unbalanced.

Albs need buffs, it seems, but stealth is not one of the areas.
Hmmm

So because we have Minstrels we cannot have a little help for Scouts? Using similar logic, Midgard duel wield classes should not have received any help due to Mids having Savages, nor should Mid light tanks be able to climb walls because again they have savages...Where do you draw the line?

You know if svg and healer had stealth then you argument would make a little sense. But Zerks/Svgs dont really run duo for a reason because you either need stealth or max speed. Also the only good thing zerk has in LA is the anytime but maybe we should also start looking into shield specc for merc/bm then?

If your slam gets purged everytime use numb or some short afterblock stun with engage so you can restun. If you struggle especially vs sbs rerole a slash infi and facerole them.

Sun 23 Jun 2019 1:36 AM by Tndiesel

I solo and not that many people are playing minstrel as a Stealth Class. Most of these suggestions are not buffs, but what scouts had to begin with im just saying take away the nerfs or give us more spec points.

Sun 23 Jun 2019 1:57 AM by ExcretusMaximus

Tndiesel wrote: ↑
Sun 23 Jun 2019 1:36 AM
give us more spec points.

Do Rangers and Hunters get more points as well?

Sun 23 Jun 2019 2:37 AM by Tndiesel

Hunter Just got a boost

I have play a hunter to rr8 and a ranger to rr9 I have played archer since 2003 and this is the worst version of bow ever in daoc.

Sun 23 Jun 2019 2:38 AM by Tndiesel

Give them back Penetrating arrow and Crit on somone in combat.

Sun 23 Jun 2019 2:42 AM by nixxo87

When i have a flat 15% chance to miss slam(really?) on top of his 20-30% evade rate, its pretty dumb. Fix the numbers on this server, its getting rediculous. I dont have Pd and get melted by every class in melee, slam is purged every single time and shots get interupted by the dumbest things.

Sun 23 Jun 2019 2:46 AM by Tndiesel

Or Get rid of 5 min purge.

Sun 23 Jun 2019 4:18 AM by Cadebrennus

Archers aren't going to get any boosts. Hell, they're not even going to get basic survival tools that they had at 1.65 or with NF. Just let it go.

Sun 23 Jun 2019 4:30 AM by ExcretusMaximus

Tndiesel wrote: ↑
Sun 23 Jun 2019 2:46 AM
Or Get rid of 5 min purge.

It's 30 RSP and you're acting as if everyone in the game is willing to dump that much into a single active RA.

Sun 23 Jun 2019 5:11 AM by nixxo87

ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Sun 23 Jun 2019 4:30 AM
Tndiesel wrote: ↑
Sun 23 Jun 2019 2:46 AM
Or Get rid of 5 min purge.

It's 30 RSP and you're acting as if everyone in the game is willing to dump that much into a single active RA.

well they do, if this was OF ra's people wouldnt use purge as such a crutch, they would actually need to use their brain and weigh options to see if its worth to blow a 30 min timer to win a fight. Maybe then scout slams wouldnt get purged every fight.

edit: as it stands now you can save purge and still wreck scouts as an assasin.

Sun 23 Jun 2019 5:23 AM by ExcretusMaximus

nixxo87 wrote: ↑
Sun 23 Jun 2019 5:11 AM
well they do

No, they do not. Maybe the assassins do, but I find that hard to believe as well. Purge five is not considered a "must have" on anyone that plays visibles.

Sun 23 Jun 2019 6:03 AM by Druth

Hejjin wrote: ↑
Sat 22 Jun 2019 10:15 PM
Druth wrote: ↑
Sat 22 Jun 2019 7:05 PM
Not saying it's fair... but I'm against scouts getting buffs when the alb stealth groups have minstrels.

The stealth dynamic/balance has to account for minstrels, and that makes albs far superior, so to buff any of the other two alb stealthers would make it even more unbalanced.

Albs need buffs, it seems, but stealth is not one of the areas.
Hmmm

So because we have Minstrels we cannot have a little help for Scouts? Using similar logic, Midgard duel wield classes should not have received any help due to Mids having Savages, nor should Mid light tanks be able to climb walls because again they have savages...Where do you draw the line?

The server is constantly hovering around 20-25% stealthers at all times, a group that makes up around 15% of the classes. (these numbers don't seem to include minstrels).
I personally think stealthers are bad, because each non-visibel character in Frontier means more potential lost fights.
And no matter how you spin it, 35-70% increase from their "natural" pop, is to much. No matter if they feel forced on stealthers due to gankers, or they've always loved stealthers and it's why they play here, it's to much.

So asking for a buff for a stealth class seems like a bad idea, especially for one that can group with a stealther with the tools a minstrel has.
I know it sounds harsh if you are one of the scouts that actually don't group with one.

Sun 23 Jun 2019 7:49 AM by Hejjin

Luluko wrote: ↑
Sun 23 Jun 2019 12:59 AM
You know if svg and healer had stealth then you argument would make a little sense. But Zerks/Svgs dont really run duo for a reason because you either need stealth or max speed. Also the only good thing zerk has in LA is the anytime but maybe we should also start looking into shield specc for merc/bm then?

Wow, talk about a perfect example of missing the blindingly obvious point. Note, I stated : " Using similar logic,", I was not trying to state it was identical, merely that you could use similar "logic" to deny classes that need help from getting it because their realm also has an extra class with similar mechanics. Nor was I trying to state that some of the DW classes did not need the help that they received, I was actually in favour of it, at least for Zerks/BM's/Mercs.

Luluko wrote: ↑
Sun 23 Jun 2019 12:59 AM
If your slam gets purged everytime use numb or some short afterblock stun with engage so you can restun. If you struggle especially vs sbs rerole a slash infi and facerole them.

Please just stop with the theory-crafting, you have repeatedly proven that you are appallingly poor at it.

Sun 23 Jun 2019 9:00 AM by Hejjin

Druth wrote: ↑
Sun 23 Jun 2019 6:03 AM
The server is constantly hovering around 20-25% stealthers at all times, a group that makes up around 15% of the classes. (these numbers don't seem to include minstrels).

Scout numbers are not particularly high when compared to any of the other stealth classes. As for Minstrels, the majority of them play in groups and do not spec heavily into stealth. The Herald stats do include Minstrels as a stealth based class, though I am not sure if /underpopulation does when it lists the number of stealthers in the frontiers.

Druth wrote: ↑
Sun 23 Jun 2019 6:03 AM
I personally think stealthers are bad, because each non-visibel character in Frontier means more potential lost fights.
And no matter how you spin it, 35-70% increase from their "natural" pop, is to much. No matter if they feel forced on stealthers due to gankers, or they've always loved stealthers and it's why they play here, it's to much.

The majority of those numbers are from the 3 assassin classes, an already strong group of classes that benefited when DW damage was increased...

Druth wrote: ↑
Sun 23 Jun 2019 6:03 AM
So asking for a buff for a stealth class seems like a bad idea,

I do understand your point, however Scouts are certainly the lowest performing of the 3 archer classes. Rangers have been the best since the server launched, followed by Hunters, and then Scouts. Rangers and Hunters got a deserved boost to their magic spec line to compensate for changes to buff pots, but then Hunter pets also got a decent increase, so Scouts just got left further behind their peers. I would be content to have scouts be able to use the slowest crafted bows of all the archers, even if that was only going from 5.5 to 5.55 or 5.6 speed, at least it would be something...

Druth wrote: ↑
Sun 23 Jun 2019 6:03 AM
especially for one that can group with a stealther with the tools a minstrel has.

Can group rarely translates into does group, at least not on Albion, if those classes were on another realm it might regularly happen.

Druth wrote: ↑
Sun 23 Jun 2019 6:03 AM
I know it sounds harsh if you are one of the scouts that actually don't group with one.

I play my scout totally solo, I have turned down multiple invites to join groups of stealthers, that is not my caffeine beverage of choice, those groups were mostly comprised of scouts with one of 2 assassins, very rarely did I get advised they had a minstrel in the group...

Edit : The /underpop figures for alb level 50 stealthers does not match the numbers of level 50 Infs, Mins, or Scouts in the frontiers.

Sun 23 Jun 2019 10:30 AM by inoeth

Ive met alot scouts that do pretty good in melee.
Also during beta i played scout and did very well...

The problem with scouts is the players that mindlessly want to spec 50 bow...
Spec 27 bow 44 thrust 45 shield and get some moblock and learn how to trigger purge on a short duration stun.

Sun 23 Jun 2019 12:58 PM by ExcretusMaximus

inoeth wrote: ↑
Sun 23 Jun 2019 10:30 AM
The problem with scouts is the players that mindlessly want to spec 50 bow...

Imagine someone wanting to spec bow on an archer! What noobs!

The fact that bow is in such a shitty state that no one advocates speccing in it is an actual problem with Scout (and Hunters and Rangers).

Sun 23 Jun 2019 1:07 PM by Druth

Hejjin wrote: ↑
Sun 23 Jun 2019 9:00 AM
A lot...

Sorry, can't really quote all of it

Not trying to be rude though...

Which ever classes make up the stealth pop is irrelevant, is also why I liked the boost to archer stealth detection, but not the hunter pet buffs.
One was made at the cost of assassins, the other at the cost of all non-mids.

Boosting scouts is fine by me, but should be done at the cost of other stealthers, so the numbers don't change, just the spread.

Sun 23 Jun 2019 2:06 PM by Luluko

ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Sun 23 Jun 2019 12:58 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Sun 23 Jun 2019 10:30 AM
The problem with scouts is the players that mindlessly want to spec 50 bow...

Imagine someone wanting to spec bow on an archer! What noobs!

The fact that bow is in such a shitty state that no one advocates speccing in it is an actual problem with Scout (and Hunters and Rangers).

bow is good enough, you have the advantage of range and stealth which other none archer classes dont have, and add to that that real bows are really difficulty to handle and you also need to be extremely skilled to even hit someone with those, but with daocs target system you would either need to have 70% miss chance but then almost insta kill anything which wears leather and less or you just have to tune down the overall damage since a 70% missrate prolly wouldnt be fun either. If you wanna play a bow class play kingdome come deliverance you dont even have target cursor there but most unarmored enemies are dead with 1 arrow and you can also poison your arrows.

If you wanna do damage on range play a caster or they should remove stealth from archers and then buff the bow line.

Sun 23 Jun 2019 3:08 PM by Kwall0311

1000 dmg on light tanks and under before they can get to you sounds pretty fair to me

Sun 23 Jun 2019 5:15 PM by Hejjin

Druth wrote: ↑
Sun 23 Jun 2019 1:07 PM
Sorry, can't really quote all of it
Not trying to be rude though...

Which ever classes make up the stealth pop is irrelevant, is also why I liked the boost to archer stealth detection, but not the hunter pet buffs.
One was made at the cost of assassins, the other at the cost of all non-mids.

Aye, I am not sure why Hunters needed that boost, they were already performing better than Scouts prior to the pet change.

Druth wrote: ↑
Sun 23 Jun 2019 1:07 PM
Boosting scouts is fine by me, but should be done at the cost of other stealthers, so the numbers don't change, just the spread.

They will not nerf Minstrels or Infs just to boost Scouts, seemingly they believe Scouts are fine.

Just to clarify, I am not asking for more spec points, nor am I asking for a substantial damage increase, I am just puzzled as to why the worst performing of the 3 archer classes failed to get a boost when the other 2 did.

Sun 23 Jun 2019 5:33 PM by Hejjin

Kwall0311 wrote: ↑
Sun 23 Jun 2019 3:08 PM
1000 dmg on light tanks and under before they can get to you sounds pretty fair to me

Against a class that has absolutely no ranged abilities that is indeed fine. Against classes that do, then it is not quite so good ;-). I found Curruba (lvl 50 RR3.x Champ) sat down in Breifine, I opened up with a Critshot and did the maximum possible (1045 with 3000 modifier), I then followed that up with a normal hit of around 300. Curruba used IP and ran towards me and used all the instants and debuffs preventing me from firing any more arrows, we then meleed and I died despite using purge and IP and numb/slam...

I am not complaining about the death, it comes under the same category as most of my other deaths, lack of patience on my part, despite having what seemed to be clear LoS I could not get shots in when I originally approached, so I had to move in far closer than I liked, I paid for that lack of patience ;-).

Just for the record, that is the absolute maximum critshot that I can do, and that rarely occurs and is certainly not anywhere close to my average critshot damage, so don't use it as an example to say we are fine. Critshots seem incredibly variable, I have had critshots against targets that have been out of combat and sat down for 30+ seconds turn into normal shots because for some reason the system decides that I cannot perform a critshot against that target...Doing a hit of 280-320 damage against a skald of or light tank, or even some casters before they run towards me is far more common...

Sun 23 Jun 2019 6:50 PM by Druth

Hejjin wrote: ↑
Sun 23 Jun 2019 5:15 PM
Druth wrote: ↑
Sun 23 Jun 2019 1:07 PM
Sorry, can't really quote all of it
Not trying to be rude though...

Which ever classes make up the stealth pop is irrelevant, is also why I liked the boost to archer stealth detection, but not the hunter pet buffs.
One was made at the cost of assassins, the other at the cost of all non-mids.
Aye, I am not sure why Hunters needed that boost, they were already performing better than Scouts prior to the pet change.

Druth wrote: ↑
Sun 23 Jun 2019 1:07 PM
Boosting scouts is fine by me, but should be done at the cost of other stealthers, so the numbers don't change, just the spread.
They will not nerf Minstrels or Infs just to boost Scouts, seemingly they believe Scouts are fine.

Just to clarify, I am not asking for more spec points, nor am I asking for a substantial damage increase, I am just puzzled as to why the worst performing of the 3 archer classes failed to get a boost when the other 2 did.

I just don't want more stealthers, and think that would be the result.

I played valkyrie when they launched, and they were gimp as F, suddenly they buffed them up with heals and crap, and I was suddenly playing one of the most OP classes in the game.
So you might get lucky as well

Sun 23 Jun 2019 7:20 PM by Hejjin

Druth wrote: ↑
Sun 23 Jun 2019 6:50 PM
Hejjin wrote: ↑
Sun 23 Jun 2019 5:15 PM
Druth wrote: ↑
Sun 23 Jun 2019 1:07 PM
Sorry, can't really quote all of it
Not trying to be rude though...

Which ever classes make up the stealth pop is irrelevant, is also why I liked the boost to archer stealth detection, but not the hunter pet buffs.
One was made at the cost of assassins, the other at the cost of all non-mids.
Aye, I am not sure why Hunters needed that boost, they were already performing better than Scouts prior to the pet change.

Druth wrote: ↑
Sun 23 Jun 2019 1:07 PM
Boosting scouts is fine by me, but should be done at the cost of other stealthers, so the numbers don't change, just the spread.
They will not nerf Minstrels or Infs just to boost Scouts, seemingly they believe Scouts are fine.

Just to clarify, I am not asking for more spec points, nor am I asking for a substantial damage increase, I am just puzzled as to why the worst performing of the 3 archer classes failed to get a boost when the other 2 did.

I just don't want more stealthers, and think that would be the result.

I played valkyrie when they launched, and they were gimp as F, suddenly they buffed them up with heals and crap, and I was suddenly playing one of the most OP classes in the game.
So you might get lucky as well

Nah, I will be back to my Friar or Reaver when NF arrives, I just get annoyed at repeatedly failing to make it past milegates to play them at moment, always seem to be several stealthers waiting there to jump the visible soloers.

Mon 24 Jun 2019 12:25 AM by easytoremember

Hejjin wrote: ↑
Sun 23 Jun 2019 5:15 PM
Aye, I am not sure why Hunters needed that boost, they were already performing better than Scouts prior to the pet change.

Beastcraft was worthless and even moreso following the buff charge changes

Mon 24 Jun 2019 7:26 AM by Sepplord

Solo-scouts are a bit weak, i agree...but so are several chars that have group-utility
jsut because some scouts chose to not use their shield-utility doesn't mean the class needs to be buffed so it is strong when not using a core mechanic of their kit

and on top of that, i am surprised to see people complaining aobut "no critshot in combat" without getting called out more, i critshot people in combat all the time. On most casters i open up with normal/RF shot to remove bubble and then critshot them when we both are in combat.. ?

Mon 24 Jun 2019 7:41 AM by Bumbles

inoeth wrote: ↑
Sun 23 Jun 2019 10:30 AM
Ive met alot scouts that do pretty good in melee.
Also during beta i played scout and did very well...

The problem with scouts is the players that mindlessly want to spec 50 bow...
Spec 27 bow 44 thrust 45 shield and get some moblock and learn how to trigger purge on a short duration stun.

haha always people like you with the "I did great on my Scout when I played it".....So once you get them to blow purge on Numb you have a Crit shot and 1 other regular shot which all that damage at 27 Bow will be negated with Legion/Heal pot. Then what? Kill them with your 80-110 damage per swing in melee until slam is up again? Right...

Mon 24 Jun 2019 8:02 AM by Hejjin

easytoremember wrote: ↑
Mon 24 Jun 2019 12:25 AM
Hejjin wrote: ↑
Sun 23 Jun 2019 5:15 PM
Aye, I am not sure why Hunters needed that boost, they were already performing better than Scouts prior to the pet change.
Beastcraft was worthless and even moreso following the buff charge changes

I agree with part of that and stated so earlier, they needed their self-buffs adjusting to compensate for the buff pot changes. It was the increase in pet damage I disagreed with, as the Herald clearly showed, Hunters were performing better than Scouts, though they were a distant second to Rangers.

Mon 24 Jun 2019 8:17 AM by Hejjin

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Mon 24 Jun 2019 7:26 AM
Solo-scouts are a bit weak, i agree...but so are several chars that have group-utility
jsut because some scouts chose to not use their shield-utility doesn't mean the class needs to be buffed so it is strong when not using a core mechanic of their kit.

Of course, Scouts are welcomed with open arms in Albion groups...oh wait, that does not occur in the reality that I live in, perhaps it does in some alternate universe where Paladins are also welcomed in those same groups...Scouts might have some group utility, but it will only be used when grouped with other stealthers as normal albion groups are not interested in adding them to the group, and obviously that extra utility is not really required in stealth groups...

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Mon 24 Jun 2019 7:26 AM
and on top of that, i am surprised to see people complaining aobut "no critshot in combat" without getting called out more, i critshot people in combat all the time. On most casters i open up with normal/RF shot to remove bubble and then critshot them when we both are in combat.. ?

If the target is doing nothing, removing the bubble does not appear to count as them being in combat until they take damage or start to perform an action, i.e casting. As I stated earlier, there are times when I try for a critshot, when neither I nor the target are in combat and the system decides that I cannot perform a criitshot and instead converts to an ordinary shot.

Mon 24 Jun 2019 8:19 AM by Sepplord

Hejjin wrote: ↑
Mon 24 Jun 2019 8:17 AM
there are times when I try for a critshot, when neither I nor the target are in combat and the system decides that I cannot perform a criitshot and instead converts to an ordinary shot.

Sounds as if it has nothing to do with "being in combat" then doesn't it?

Mon 24 Jun 2019 8:30 AM by Hejjin

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Mon 24 Jun 2019 8:19 AM
Hejjin wrote: ↑
Mon 24 Jun 2019 8:17 AM
there are times when I try for a critshot, when neither I nor the target are in combat and the system decides that I cannot perform a criitshot and instead converts to an ordinary shot.

Sounds as if it has nothing to do with "being in combat" then doesn't it?

It does not explicitly state why you cannot perform a critshot, it instead says it is not possible and converts to an ordinary shot. This is why I and others state it is variable, there are plenty of times when it is absolutely obvious why a critshot is not possible because the target is clearly in combat, but other times there is zero reason behind it.

Mon 24 Jun 2019 9:01 AM by inoeth

ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Sun 23 Jun 2019 12:58 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Sun 23 Jun 2019 10:30 AM
The problem with scouts is the players that mindlessly want to spec 50 bow...

Imagine someone wanting to spec bow on an archer! What noobs!

The fact that bow is in such a shitty state that no one advocates speccing in it is an actual problem with Scout (and Hunters and Rangers).

well then gimp spec yourself like a thrown weapon speced warrior lol

Mon 24 Jun 2019 9:11 AM by inoeth

Bumbles wrote: ↑
Mon 24 Jun 2019 7:41 AM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Sun 23 Jun 2019 10:30 AM
Ive met alot scouts that do pretty good in melee.
Also during beta i played scout and did very well...

The problem with scouts is the players that mindlessly want to spec 50 bow...
Spec 27 bow 44 thrust 45 shield and get some moblock and learn how to trigger purge on a short duration stun.

haha always people like you with the "I did great on my Scout when I played it".....So once you get them to blow purge on Numb you have a Crit shot and 1 other regular shot which all that damage at 27 Bow will be negated with Legion/Heal pot. Then what? Kill them with your 80-110 damage per swing in melee until slam is up again? Right...

with 44 thrust you have access to a 27s snare chain, use it.
i dont get why ppl complain and when somebody tells them how to do it, they simply deny the advice.... guys really maybe you should try first? this scout spec worked really great for me!

Mon 24 Jun 2019 9:29 AM by Sepplord

Hejjin wrote: ↑
Mon 24 Jun 2019 8:30 AM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Mon 24 Jun 2019 8:19 AM
Hejjin wrote: ↑
Mon 24 Jun 2019 8:17 AM
there are times when I try for a critshot, when neither I nor the target are in combat and the system decides that I cannot perform a criitshot and instead converts to an ordinary shot.

Sounds as if it has nothing to do with "being in combat" then doesn't it?
It does not explicitly state why you cannot perform a critshot, it instead says it is not possible and converts to an ordinary shot. This is why I and others state it is variable, there are plenty of times when it is absolutely obvious why a critshot is not possible because the target is clearly in combat, but other times there is zero reason behind it.

If it is unknown why it sometimes doens't work, then at first i would exclude the scenarios where it sometimes works as the scenarios that trigger it not working.
You automatically adress a failing critshot to "being in combat" but where do you get that info? Just because the target is in combat, that doesn't mean THAT was the reason. Especially since there are plenty examples where someone is in combat but still got critshotted...

Mon 24 Jun 2019 9:43 AM by keen

inoeth wrote: ↑
Mon 24 Jun 2019 9:11 AM
Bumbles wrote: ↑
Mon 24 Jun 2019 7:41 AM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Sun 23 Jun 2019 10:30 AM
Ive met alot scouts that do pretty good in melee.
Also during beta i played scout and did very well...

The problem with scouts is the players that mindlessly want to spec 50 bow...
Spec 27 bow 44 thrust 45 shield and get some moblock and learn how to trigger purge on a short duration stun.

haha always people like you with the "I did great on my Scout when I played it".....So once you get them to blow purge on Numb you have a Crit shot and 1 other regular shot which all that damage at 27 Bow will be negated with Legion/Heal pot. Then what? Kill them with your 80-110 damage per swing in melee until slam is up again? Right...

with 44 thrust you have access to a 27s snare chain, use it.
i dont get why ppl complain and when somebody tells them how to do it, they simply deny the advice.... guys really maybe you should try first? this scout spec worked really great for me!

good luck kiting a garotte spaming assasing with disease on you...

Mon 24 Jun 2019 10:11 AM by Hejjin

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Mon 24 Jun 2019 9:29 AM
Hejjin wrote: ↑
Mon 24 Jun 2019 8:30 AM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Mon 24 Jun 2019 8:19 AM
Sounds as if it has nothing to do with "being in combat" then doesn't it?
It does not explicitly state why you cannot perform a critshot, it instead says it is not possible and converts to an ordinary shot. This is why I and others state it is variable, there are plenty of times when it is absolutely obvious why a critshot is not possible because the target is clearly in combat, but other times there is zero reason behind it.

If it is unknown why it sometimes doens't work, then at first i would exclude the scenarios where it sometimes works as the scenarios that trigger it not working.
You automatically adress a failing critshot to "being in combat" but where do you get that info? Just because the target is in combat, that doesn't mean THAT was the reason. Especially since there are plenty examples where someone is in combat but still got critshotted...

I have absolutely no idea what the actual cause is because it does not state the cause, it just states it is not possible to perform a crit shot. The "logic" surrounding what can be a critshot and what can't, is very inconsistent. I have managed to perform critshots against players that are clearly in combat or are sprinting, but failed against others that are out of combat and stationary and/or seated. Consistency would be nice, barring that, an actual reason as to why a critshot was not possible at that time would suffice...

Mon 24 Jun 2019 10:15 AM by Hejjin

inoeth wrote: ↑
Mon 24 Jun 2019 9:11 AM
Bumbles wrote: ↑
Mon 24 Jun 2019 7:41 AM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Sun 23 Jun 2019 10:30 AM
Ive met alot scouts that do pretty good in melee.
Also during beta i played scout and did very well...

The problem with scouts is the players that mindlessly want to spec 50 bow...
Spec 27 bow 44 thrust 45 shield and get some moblock and learn how to trigger purge on a short duration stun.

haha always people like you with the "I did great on my Scout when I played it".....So once you get them to blow purge on Numb you have a Crit shot and 1 other regular shot which all that damage at 27 Bow will be negated with Legion/Heal pot. Then what? Kill them with your 80-110 damage per swing in melee until slam is up again? Right...

with 44 thrust you have access to a 27s snare chain, use it.
i dont get why ppl complain and when somebody tells them how to do it, they simply deny the advice.... guys really maybe you should try first? this scout spec worked really great for me!

You tested it in beta, go test it now, and let us all know how viable it is, and no, not against lower level players exping in the frontiers enabling you to get several free shots in before they can react to your presence.

Mon 24 Jun 2019 10:19 AM by Sepplord

Hejjin wrote: ↑
Mon 24 Jun 2019 10:11 AM

I can't help you with that though...but if you even say yourself that you have critshotted people clearly in combat, it is mindboggling to me why you haven't yet excluded "being in combat" from the list of things that disallow critshots :/

If "being in combat" wouldn't allow critshots, then you could NEVER critshot someone in combat. Critshotting someone once in a million tries in combat, already disproves that "being in combat" is not the dissalowing factor

Mon 24 Jun 2019 10:27 AM by inoeth

Hejjin wrote: ↑
Mon 24 Jun 2019 10:11 AM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Mon 24 Jun 2019 9:29 AM
Hejjin wrote: ↑
Mon 24 Jun 2019 8:30 AM
It does not explicitly state why you cannot perform a critshot, it instead says it is not possible and converts to an ordinary shot. This is why I and others state it is variable, there are plenty of times when it is absolutely obvious why a critshot is not possible because the target is clearly in combat, but other times there is zero reason behind it.

If it is unknown why it sometimes doens't work, then at first i would exclude the scenarios where it sometimes works as the scenarios that trigger it not working.
You automatically adress a failing critshot to "being in combat" but where do you get that info? Just because the target is in combat, that doesn't mean THAT was the reason. Especially since there are plenty examples where someone is in combat but still got critshotted...
I have absolutely no idea what the actual cause is because it does not state the cause, it just states it is not possible to perform a crit shot. The "logic" surrounding what can be a critshot and what can't, is very inconsistent. I have managed to perform critshots against players that are clearly in combat or are sprinting, but failed against others that are out of combat and stationary and/or seated. Consistency would be nice, barring that, an actual reason as to why a critshot was not possible at that time would suffice...

enemy out of combat= crit
enemy in combat= no crit
enemy in combat but stunned= crit
sprinting char= crit
enemy that recently got critshotted= no crit
enemy that recently killed sombody still wielding weapons= crit

thats my experiance with that

Mon 24 Jun 2019 10:58 AM by Hejjin

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Mon 24 Jun 2019 10:19 AM
Hejjin wrote: ↑
Mon 24 Jun 2019 10:11 AM

I can't help you with that though...but if you even say yourself that you have critshotted people clearly in combat, it is mindboggling to me why you haven't yet excluded "being in combat" from the list of things that disallow critshots :/

If "being in combat" wouldn't allow critshots, then you could NEVER critshot someone in combat. Critshotting someone once in a million tries in combat, already disproves that "being in combat" is not the dissalowing factor

Please show me where I have stated that being in combat is the sole reason for a critshot failing? I have stated repeatedly that the mechanics of what can and can't be a critshot are variable / inconsistent. I have seen plenty of posts by other archers about what can /can't influence critshots, but my experience of playing my scout shows that absolutely non of those lists of mitigating factors are accurate 100% of the time.

This is Inoeth's list :

inoeth wrote: ↑
Mon 24 Jun 2019 10:27 AM
enemy out of combat= crit
enemy in combat= no crit
enemy in combat but stunned= crit
sprinting char= crit
enemy that recently got critshotted= no crit
enemy that recently killed sombody still wielding weapons= crit

1. Multiple times it has not been possible to perform a critshot despite the target being out of combat for in excess of 30 seconds.
2. Multiple times I have managed to perform a critshot when the target is in combat with another player or mob.
3. Not sure about stuns...
4. Sprinting, sometimes yes, sometimes no... If moving around the zone, then usually yes, if fleeing an opponent, sometimes.
5. I play solo, so this is an unknown, I obviously do not do back to back critshots.
6. Sometimes...

Mon 24 Jun 2019 2:04 PM by Numatic

The problem with scout is this

Purge up= win
Purge down =lose

That's considering 2 competent players. I have never lost a 1v1 to a scout on my NS while purge was up. They tend to have an atypical reaction to numb/slam. If numb they dont switch to bow or move. If they slam they tend to either switch to bow or attempt to run. When they slam (or numb) me I usually give it a sec before I purge. They may get 1 free melee hit in but I'll take that over being baited.

The problem isnt just scouts but as a whole in RvR. I actually hate playing my NS right now just because there are so many stealthers. But it's the only way to find fights without being face rolled 20 times before finding a decent fight.

This is why scouts do stealth groups now. So they can use the only thing they really have, bow. A high RR scout with high MoB and melee can be a bit tough, but who wants to wait till rr9 to have a somewhat viable class?

Fact is, if I run into a scout, it's either free rps or insta death cuz hes running with a fg of stealthers.

It's the solo ability in RvR that's killing it for scouts and many other classes, but noone to this day, including freeshards and mythic, have bothered to do anything substantial about it.

Mon 24 Jun 2019 2:13 PM by mhenfhis

Numatic wrote: ↑
Mon 24 Jun 2019 2:04 PM
The problem with scout is this

Purge up= win
Purge down =lose

Not rly, cause you have to deal here with heals pots and legion charge, and mostly there goes the crit shot dmg.

Mon 24 Jun 2019 2:20 PM by Numatic

mhenfhis wrote: ↑
Mon 24 Jun 2019 2:13 PM
Numatic wrote: ↑
Mon 24 Jun 2019 2:04 PM
The problem with scout is this

Purge up= win
Purge down =lose

Not rly, cause you have to deal here with heals pots and legion charge, and mostly there goes the crit shot dmg.

Oh, depends. In a 9s stun you can hit crit shot+ normal. That's alot of damage. If I get some ablative and heal procs, then yes my NS could still win. But heal pot+ legion is less than 500hp. That's still around 300-400 hp I would lose. I dont like to consider RnG since it's just that, RnG. But if you consider he likely at least has IP3, it's highly unlikely you would win a 1v1 with purge down unless the rng gods shined on you.

Mon 24 Jun 2019 7:04 PM by Bumbles

inoeth wrote: ↑
Mon 24 Jun 2019 9:11 AM
Bumbles wrote: ↑
Mon 24 Jun 2019 7:41 AM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Sun 23 Jun 2019 10:30 AM
Ive met alot scouts that do pretty good in melee.
Also during beta i played scout and did very well...

The problem with scouts is the players that mindlessly want to spec 50 bow...
Spec 27 bow 44 thrust 45 shield and get some moblock and learn how to trigger purge on a short duration stun.

haha always people like you with the "I did great on my Scout when I played it".....So once you get them to blow purge on Numb you have a Crit shot and 1 other regular shot which all that damage at 27 Bow will be negated with Legion/Heal pot. Then what? Kill them with your 80-110 damage per swing in melee until slam is up again? Right...

with 44 thrust you have access to a 27s snare chain, use it.
i dont get why ppl complain and when somebody tells them how to do it, they simply deny the advice.... guys really maybe you should try first? this scout spec worked really great for me!

You assume the people commenting haven’t tried that spec. I have played my Scout with almost every conceivable spec. The 44 thrust for a 2 part snare is a waste due to it really only working on other solo visible classes. Doesn’t work on SB, NS, Skalds, VW, Thanes etc. all of which you will find in the solo game. So the so called complaints are based off current players who actually play a Scout on this server. Want better advice for playing a Solo Scout? Go high stealth so you can outrun most if not all stealth when you see them come into range do a u-turn and run away, then pre load crit shot and hope they come to find you. At least this way you can start a fight with your highest damage possible. Spec high Mastery of Archery and Falcons eye and hope the waste purge on numb. If all that fails get ready to rebuff. Oh and get ready to laugh when your crit shot gets evaded while the other player is still stealthed.

Tue 25 Jun 2019 1:24 AM by Tndiesel

33 hunters on 8 scouts do i need to say more.

Tue 25 Jun 2019 2:44 AM by woody

Bumbles wrote: ↑
Mon 24 Jun 2019 7:04 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Mon 24 Jun 2019 9:11 AM
Bumbles wrote: ↑
Mon 24 Jun 2019 7:41 AM
haha always people like you with the "I did great on my Scout when I played it".....So once you get them to blow purge on Numb you have a Crit shot and 1 other regular shot which all that damage at 27 Bow will be negated with Legion/Heal pot. Then what? Kill them with your 80-110 damage per swing in melee until slam is up again? Right...

with 44 thrust you have access to a 27s snare chain, use it.
i dont get why ppl complain and when somebody tells them how to do it, they simply deny the advice.... guys really maybe you should try first? this scout spec worked really great for me!

You assume the people commenting haven’t tried that spec. I have played my Scout with almost every conceivable spec. The 44 thrust for a 2 part snare is a waste due to it really only working on other solo visible classes. Doesn’t work on SB, NS, Skalds, VW, Thanes etc. all of which you will find in the solo game. So the so called complaints are based off current players who actually play a Scout on this server. Want better advice for playing a Solo Scout? Go high stealth so you can outrun most if not all stealth when you see them come into range do a u-turn and run away, then pre load crit shot and hope they come to find you. At least this way you can start a fight with your highest damage possible. Spec high Mastery of Archery and Falcons eye and hope the waste purge on numb. If all that fails get ready to rebuff. Oh and get ready to laugh when your crit shot gets evaded while the other player is still stealthed.

Until knocking the arrow pops you out of stealth. Good times when that happens.

Tue 25 Jun 2019 3:06 AM by Bumbles

Yeah, that's so awkward when that happens. Imagine if Sins had a chance to pop out of stealth before they used PA? Funny stuff.

Tue 25 Jun 2019 5:19 PM by Tndiesel

Why dont one of the devs make a rr 6 scout template it out and go play it for a night. Then maybe they will look into Scouts a little.

Wed 26 Jun 2019 7:28 AM by Sepplord

Tndiesel wrote: ↑
Tue 25 Jun 2019 5:19 PM
Why dont one of the devs make a rr 6 scout template it out and go play it for a night. Then maybe they will look into Scouts a little.

i don't know about the devs...but you could give me any class (besides the ones i already play) and i would get absolutely shat on when trying it out for a night.

But curious, would you be fine and calm when the testreport comes in and scouts get nerfed, because the dev sat on top of a tower/keep all night and got really lucky shooting into fights happening around?

I personally believe that any scout nerf would be ridicolous, but a one night test can always go either way, so why would you propose such a thing?

Wed 26 Jun 2019 9:10 AM by Hejjin

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Wed 26 Jun 2019 7:28 AM
Tndiesel wrote: ↑
Tue 25 Jun 2019 5:19 PM
Why dont one of the devs make a rr 6 scout template it out and go play it for a night. Then maybe they will look into Scouts a little.

i don't know about the devs...but you could give me any class (besides the ones i already play) and i would get absolutely shat on when trying it out for a night.

But curious, would you be fine and calm when the testreport comes in and scouts get nerfed, because the dev sat on top of a tower/keep all night and got really lucky shooting into fights happening around?

I personally believe that any scout nerf would be ridicolous, but a one night test can always go either way, so why would you propose such a thing?

I would classify that form of "testing" to be one where the tester has firm views on the subject area and is only going through the motions by trying to perform a test to validate those views.

Fri 28 Jun 2019 3:46 AM by Tndiesel

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Wed 26 Jun 2019 7:28 AM
Tndiesel wrote: ↑
Tue 25 Jun 2019 5:19 PM
Why dont one of the devs make a rr 6 scout template it out and go play it for a night. Then maybe they will look into Scouts a little.

i don't know about the devs...but you could give me any class (besides the ones i already play) and i would get absolutely shat on when trying it out for a night.

But curious, would you be fine and calm when the testreport comes in and scouts get nerfed, because the dev sat on top of a tower/keep all night and got really lucky shooting into fights happening around?

I personally believe that any scout nerf would be ridicolous, but a one night test can always go either way, so why would you propose such a thing?

This is what no one understands, they have already Nerfed Scouts Im only asking for them to UnNerf them. UnNerf All bow CLasses The spec Point thing was only a suggestion because they have taken everything away from Scout that made them a Scout.

Fri 28 Jun 2019 10:36 AM by

gruenesschaf

ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Sun 23 Jun 2019 12:58 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Sun 23 Jun 2019 10:30 AM
The problem with scouts is the players that mindlessly want to spec 50 bow...

Imagine someone wanting to spec bow on an archer! What noobs!

The fact that bow is in such a shitty state that no one advocates speccing in it is an actual problem with Scout (and Hunters and Rangers).

That's what the old archery system is all about, on live since the change that penetrating arrow no longer penetrates self bt and self bt is no longer overriden by pbt, this should have been around 1.5x or 1.62ish, speccing any more than 45 for RF2 is worthless and even that is debatable leaving you with 27 - 35 as reasonable. There is a reason the system saw an overhaul at some point.

Some quotes around that time pointing towards archery literally being as it is implemented here, a base melee spec where anything over enemy level + 2 has practically no effect aside from the stuff you get (rf, penetrating etc.) and the 2 handed spec based bonus:

My spec:
50 shield
35 slash
36 stealth
28 bow (27 for last crit shot and had some points spare)

I know it's a "silly" spec ... but the difference in damage between 45 and 27 bow is tiny (70 on my critshot cap) and the high melee/shield makes me win quite a lot of solo fights ...

Low bow makes me miss a lot more on reds and purples... but again the high shield and slash makes it easy peasy for me to solo a nightmare for example.

And in RvR everybody is yellow ... hardly noticed an increase in misses there.

Do not go 50 Longbow, it is not worth the points, 45 Longbow allows for the last rapid fire and you shouldn't really consider going any higher. I myself am specced 46 Longbow, but that's just because it's what I've had since the beginning and I haven't seen much need to respec by one point. Autotraining is certainly advised if you can, with autotraining I think you can get this spec, or perhaps somewhat higher.

35 Stealth
45 Longbow
42 Shield
29 Melee

At RR5 this will allow for 50 Stealth with a full spellcrafted suit, which is more or less necesary to survive for any length of time solo in today's stealthzerg culture.
45 Longbow allows for the last rapid fire, but there is no practical reason for taking it any higher.
42 Shield rewards the Slam stun, which will be your saving grace in many situations. Ignore whines about the no to-hit bonus, you do need Slam.
Finally 29 melee. At low Realm Rank you are going to do pitiful melee damage, but if you want that go and roll an Infiltrattor you woman. The real choice is between Thrust and Slash. Thrust is 50% Dex and 50% Strength based. Slash is 100% Strength. This means that your unstyled damage and weapon skill as a Scout will be higher with Thrust. However, low level Thrust styles are rather wank. Slash styles are rather better. If you intend to RvR in Emain Macha, I would suggest going Slash simply because of resist bonus against fellows such as Marczje here.

From even earlier where SC was rather rare and hence + 11 bow too:

DO not specc 50 lb its pretty worthless to give away so many poiints on something that wont give any results back... I would suggest something between 42 - 46... with that you will def get to the 50 hardcap, and over that there is almost nothing more to get

lb spec 47 -> 50 is like 100-150 dmg extra on a CS. Some like it.
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
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????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

it gives 9-10 more on crit .

I was about to say that.
When my RR went from 3-4 i got 1 more point in LB, my crit went up _3_ points.
Im 46 longbow, +11 items +3 RR

I have tested it and found that past 55, extra points give some 3-8 damage on your cap.

Do NOT go 50 longbow unless u have tons and tons of points u really dont know where to put.

Fri 28 Jun 2019 10:44 AM by florin

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Fri 28 Jun 2019 10:36 AM
ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Sun 23 Jun 2019 12:58 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Sun 23 Jun 2019 10:30 AM
The problem with scouts is the players that mindlessly want to spec 50 bow...

Imagine someone wanting to spec bow on an archer! What noobs!

The fact that bow is in such a shitty state that no one advocates speccing in it is an actual problem with Scout (and Hunters and Rangers).

That's what the old archery system is all about, on live since the change that penetrating arrow no longer penetrates self bt and self bt is no longer overriden by pbt, this should have been around 1.5x or 1.62ish, speccing any more than 45 for RF2 is worthless and even that is debatable leaving you with 27 - 35 as reasonable. There is a reason the system saw an overhaul at some point.

Some quotes around that time pointing towards archery literally being as it is implemnted here, a base melee spec where anything over enemy level + 2 has practically no effect aside from the stuff you get (rf, penetrating etc.) and the 2 handed spec based bonus:

My spec:
50 shield
35 slash
36 stealth
28 bow (27 for last crit shot and had some points spare)

I know it's a "silly" spec ... but the difference in damage between 45 and 27 bow is tiny (70 on my critshot cap) and the high melee/shield makes me win quite a lot of solo fights ...

Low bow makes me miss a lot more on reds and purples... but again the high shield and slash makes it easy peasy for me to solo a nightmare for example.

And in RvR everybody is yellow ... hardly noticed an increase in misses there.

Do not go 50 Longbow, it is not worth the points, 45 Longbow allows for the last rapid fire and you shouldn't really consider going any higher. I myself am specced 46 Longbow, but that's just because it's what I've had since the beginning and I haven't seen much need to respec by one point. Autotraining is certainly advised if you can, with autotraining I think you can get this spec, or perhaps somewhat higher.

35 Stealth
45 Longbow
42 Shield
29 Melee

At RR5 this will allow for 50 Stealth with a full spellcrafted suit, which is more or less necesary to survive for any length of time solo in today's stealthzerg culture.
45 Longbow allows for the last rapid fire, but there is no practical reason for taking it any higher.
42 Shield rewards the Slam stun, which will be your saving grace in many situations. Ignore whines about the no to-hit bonus, you do need Slam.
Finally 29 melee. At low Realm Rank you are going to do pitiful melee damage, but if you want that go and roll an Infiltrattor you woman. The real choice is between Thrust and Slash. Thrust is 50% Dex and 50% Strength based. Slash is 100% Strength. This means that your unstyled damage and weapon skill as a Scout will be higher with Thrust. However, low level Thrust styles are rather wank. Slash styles are rather better. If you intend to RvR in Emain Macha, I would suggest going Slash simply because of resist bonus against fellows such as Marczje here.

From even earlier where SC was rather rare and hence + 11 bow too:
DO not specc 50 lb its pretty worthless to give away so many poiints on something that wont give any results back... I would suggest something between 42 - 46... with that you will def get to the 50 hardcap, and over that there is almost nothing more to get

lb spec 47 -> 50 is like 100-150 dmg extra on a CS. Some like it.
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

it gives 9-10 more on crit .

I was about to say that.
When my RR went from 3-4 i got 1 more point in LB, my crit went up _3_ points.
Im 46 longbow, +11 items +3 RR

I have tested it and found that past 55, extra points give some 3-8 damage on your cap.

Do NOT go 50 longbow unless u have tons and tons of points u really dont know where to put.

Clearly the solution is to go hunter - now the debate is - dwarf, orc, troll or nightelf?

Fri 28 Jun 2019 11:07 AM by Hejjin

florin wrote: ↑
Fri 28 Jun 2019 10:44 AM
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Fri 28 Jun 2019 10:36 AM
ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Sun 23 Jun 2019 12:58 PM
Imagine someone wanting to spec bow on an archer! What noobs!

The fact that bow is in such a shitty state that no one advocates speccing in it is an actual problem with Scout (and Hunters and Rangers).

That's what the old archery system is all about, on live since the change that penetrating arrow no longer penetrates self bt and self bt is no longer overriden by pbt, this should have been around 1.5x or 1.62ish, speccing any more than 45 for RF2 is worthless and even that is debatable leaving you with 27 - 35 as reasonable. There is a reason the system saw an overhaul at some point.

Some quotes around that time pointing towards archery literally being as it is implemnted here, a base melee spec where anything over enemy level + 2 has practically no effect aside from the stuff you get (rf, penetrating etc.) and the 2 handed spec based bonus:

My spec:
50 shield
35 slash
36 stealth
28 bow (27 for last crit shot and had some points spare)

I know it's a "silly" spec ... but the difference in damage between 45 and 27 bow is tiny (70 on my critshot cap) and the high melee/shield makes me win quite a lot of solo fights ...

Low bow makes me miss a lot more on reds and purples... but again the high shield and slash makes it easy peasy for me to solo a nightmare for example.

And in RvR everybody is yellow ... hardly noticed an increase in misses there.

Do not go 50 Longbow, it is not worth the points, 45 Longbow allows for the last rapid fire and you shouldn't really consider going any higher. I myself am specced 46 Longbow, but that's just because it's what I've had since the beginning and I haven't seen much need to respec by one point. Autotraining is certainly advised if you can, with autotraining I think you can get this spec, or perhaps somewhat higher.

35 Stealth
45 Longbow
42 Shield
29 Melee

At RR5 this will allow for 50 Stealth with a full spellcrafted suit, which is more or less necesary to survive for any length of time solo in today's stealthzerg culture.
45 Longbow allows for the last rapid fire, but there is no practical reason for taking it any higher.
42 Shield rewards the Slam stun, which will be your saving grace in many situations. Ignore whines about the no to-hit bonus, you do need Slam.
Finally 29 melee. At low Realm Rank you are going to do pitiful melee damage, but if you want that go and roll an Infiltrattor you woman. The real choice is between Thrust and Slash. Thrust is 50% Dex and 50% Strength based. Slash is 100% Strength. This means that your unstyled damage and weapon skill as a Scout will be higher with Thrust. However, low level Thrust styles are rather wank. Slash styles are rather better. If you intend to RvR in Emain Macha, I would suggest going Slash simply because of resist bonus against fellows such as Marczje here.

From even earlier where SC was rather rare and hence + 11 bow too:
DO not specc 50 lb its pretty worthless to give away so many poiints on something that wont give any results back... I would suggest something between 42 - 46... with that you will def get to the 50 hardcap, and over that there is almost nothing more to get

????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

it gives 9-10 more on crit .

I was about to say that.
When my RR went from 3-4 i got 1 more point in LB, my crit went up _3_ points.
Im 46 longbow, +11 items +3 RR

I have tested it and found that past 55, extra points give some 3-8 damage on your cap.

Do NOT go 50 longbow unless u have tons and tons of points u really dont know where to put.

Clearly the solution is to go hunter - now the debate is - dwarf, orc, troll or nightelf?

There is no debate, Orc is the obvious choice ;-), admittedly I am biased as my original Hejjin character was an Orc Hunter...

Fri 28 Jun 2019 11:18 AM by inoeth

Hejjin wrote: ↑
Fri 28 Jun 2019 11:07 AM
florin wrote: ↑
Fri 28 Jun 2019 10:44 AM
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Fri 28 Jun 2019 10:36 AM
That's what the old archery system is all about, on live since the change that penetrating arrow no longer penetrates self bt and self bt is no longer overriden by pbt, this should have been around 1.5x or 1.62ish, speccing any more than 45 for RF2 is worthless and even that is debatable leaving you with 27 - 35 as reasonable. There is a reason the system saw an overhaul at some point.

Some quotes around that time pointing towards archery literally being as it is implemnted here, a base melee spec where anything over enemy level + 2 has practically no effect aside from the stuff you get (rf, penetrating etc.) and the 2 handed spec based bonus:

From even earlier where SC was rather rare and hence + 11 bow too:

Clearly the solution is to go hunter - now the debate is - dwarf, orc, troll or nightelf?
There is no debate, Orc is the obvious choice ;-), admittedly I am biased as my original Hejjin character was an Orc Hunter...

eyepatch dwarf ofc!

Fri 28 Jun 2019 11:19 AM by Hejjin

inoeth wrote: ↑
Fri 28 Jun 2019 11:18 AM
Hejjin wrote: ↑
Fri 28 Jun 2019 11:07 AM
florin wrote: ↑
Fri 28 Jun 2019 10:44 AM
Clearly the solution is to go hunter - now the debate is - dwarf, orc, troll or nightelf?
There is no debate, Orc is the obvious choice ;-), admittedly I am biased as my original Hejjin character was an Orc Hunter...

eyepatch dwarf ofc!

That would be my second choice :-)

Fri 28 Jun 2019 11:51 AM by Lillebror

Eye patch should be nerfed, since it gives 10% extra crit chance