NF won - now what ;) - Phoenix Freeshard

So it seems NF won... Now that, what does it mean?

When will we get NF, Will we get NF... Uhh so many questions

/Scout

Fri 21 Jun 2019 3:12 PM by Runental

https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?p=72899#p72899

🙄

Fri 21 Jun 2019 3:12 PM by Mavella

Pvdoor wins the day. So many welfare rps to be had taking empty towers.

Fri 21 Jun 2019 3:12 PM by Turano

now nothing. We wait for the next announcement of the staff

Fri 21 Jun 2019 3:47 PM by Anelyn77

Mavella wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 3:12 PM
Pvdoor wins the day. So many welfare rps to be had taking empty towers.

Actually most votes for OF came from hib. So Pvdoor sort of ... lost the vote?

<3

/Bnotashamed pac healer - Aicha mentalist

Fri 21 Jun 2019 4:00 PM by brewtus23

Re: NF won - now what

#3
Pvdoor wins the day. So many welfare rps to be had taking empty towers.

Mavella??? I think you have this statement confused with OF and the welfare rps that are being farmed daily by the pvdoor that is all that goes on now. Rarely do you see any of the bg's actually fight each other. hibs come take all the keeps, go to sleep, mids wake up come back take all the keeps. sometimes in the middle of this a relic is stolen only to be returned within 24 hours normally even sooner then that.

Fri 21 Jun 2019 4:33 PM by Druth

Not a resounding victory.

I'm a NF fan, but not really sure the vote convinced me it's good to change.

Fri 21 Jun 2019 4:40 PM by cere2

Druth wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 4:33 PM
Not a resounding victory.

I'm a NF fan, but not really sure the vote convinced me it's good to change.

So 5% would make you convinced? The vote was 61%, but your saying if it was 2/3 or 66% it would be good?

If it was 53% to 47% I could see the argument of leaving it. But its closer to 2/3 than 1/2 by a lot.

Fri 21 Jun 2019 5:06 PM by Druth

cere2 wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 4:40 PM
Druth wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 4:33 PM
Not a resounding victory.

I'm a NF fan, but not really sure the vote convinced me it's good to change.
So 5% would make you convinced? The vote was 61%, but your saying if it was 2/3 or 66% it would be good?

If it was 53% to 47% I could see the argument of leaving it. But its closer to 2/3 than 1/2 by a lot.

People had NF 1 week, and OF for 5 months. I had expected a resounding vote in favor for NF.

Fri 21 Jun 2019 6:56 PM by Bumbles

Druth wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 5:06 PM
cere2 wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 4:40 PM
Druth wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 4:33 PM
Not a resounding victory.

I'm a NF fan, but not really sure the vote convinced me it's good to change.
So 5% would make you convinced? The vote was 61%, but your saying if it was 2/3 or 66% it would be good?

If it was 53% to 47% I could see the argument of leaving it. But its closer to 2/3 than 1/2 by a lot.

People had NF 1 week, and OF for 5 months. I had expected a resounding vote in favor for NF.

exactly, people only had NF for a week and it still got 61% of the votes...if it had been up longer that number would have been higher in theory. Look through the forums and you will find plenty of people who were so anti NF until they actually played it for a week. Some who voted probably never stepped foot into NF.

Fri 21 Jun 2019 6:59 PM by Ashenspire

2/3 of participants voting for NF is a resounding response.

Fri 21 Jun 2019 7:11 PM by Kaseylol

Here's an indisputable fact: the general population has been declining for months under OF. People who have never joined or quit months ago are clearly not returning and there's no reason to believe a continued state of OF would change that.

Switching to NF permanently, however, is a drastic change that could potentially increase the population. I'd love to see thousands on again like at launch and I believe NF launched permanently may be the news that grows our pop back.

Lastly, live is low pop and has figured out the most fun way to enjoy rvr is to generally port to EV and move from there. During nf tests, most the action seemed to hover around primary keeps. Once phoenix learns that EV is just an improved version of OF rvr for 8vX, smallman, and zerg v zerg, people will enjoy NF a lot more. Even solos on live love EV for this as plenty of other solos run down from the EV safe port.

If we as a community embrace EV as a low pop BG-style rvr zone (much like everyone generally loves thidranki), I think NF will be an overall win.

Fri 21 Jun 2019 7:34 PM by Turano

Kaseylol wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 7:11 PM
Lastly, live is low pop and has figured out the most fun way to enjoy rvr is to generally port to EV and move from there. During nf tests, most the action seemed to hover around primary keeps. Once phoenix learns that EV is just an improved version of OF rvr for 8vX, smallman, and zerg v zerg, people will enjoy NF a lot more. Even solos on live love EV for this as plenty of other solos run down from the EV safe port.

If we as a community embrace EV as a low pop BG-style rvr zone (much like everyone generally loves thidranki), I think NF will be an overall win.

wait .. you guys want NF because you don't like the ever zergy Emain and now you advertise everyone just meet up in that new cool zone .. for lack of a better name let's just call it .. Emain 2

Fri 21 Jun 2019 7:45 PM by Kaseylol

Turano wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 7:34 PM
Kaseylol wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 7:11 PM
Lastly, live is low pop and has figured out the most fun way to enjoy rvr is to generally port to EV and move from there. During nf tests, most the action seemed to hover around primary keeps. Once phoenix learns that EV is just an improved version of OF rvr for 8vX, smallman, and zerg v zerg, people will enjoy NF a lot more. Even solos on live love EV for this as plenty of other solos run down from the EV safe port.

If we as a community embrace EV as a low pop BG-style rvr zone (much like everyone generally loves thidranki), I think NF will be an overall win.
wait .. you guys want NF because you don't like the ever zergy Emain and now you advertise everyone just meet up in that new cool zone .. for lack of a better name let's just call it .. Emain 2

You seem confused, I never talked about emain being zergy, and especially never said I don't like emain due to zergs, did you quote the wrong person?

Fri 21 Jun 2019 7:50 PM by Isavyr

Kaseylol wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 7:11 PM
If we as a community embrace EV as a low pop BG-style rvr zone (much like everyone generally loves thidranki), I think NF will be an overall win.

If you're into Quake Arena, I guess. I voted for NF, and think that EV is an abomination. I don't think they go together necessarily and would rather see EV removed, though I am open minded to being proven wrong.

Fri 21 Jun 2019 8:25 PM by rodsta69

Kaseylol wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 7:11 PM
Switching to NF permanently, however, is a drastic change that could potentially increase the population. I'd love to see thousands on again like at launch and I believe NF launched permanently may be the news that grows our pop back.

There is no proof that this will be the result, and even if it does result in some new people coming, it could also result in a fair chunk of the 38%, a not insignificant percentage, of people that voted for OF leaving the server, so that could either be balanced out by new people or possibly still be a net negative for the population. It's all speculation though and time will tell.

Fri 21 Jun 2019 8:30 PM by Halcyon702

NF will increase the population on the "classic" daoc server.

My "Corvette" with a miniscooter Honda motor will be a dragster someday.

Clown world.

Fri 21 Jun 2019 8:34 PM by Kaseylol

Isavyr wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 7:50 PM
Kaseylol wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 7:11 PM
If we as a community embrace EV as a low pop BG-style rvr zone (much like everyone generally loves thidranki), I think NF will be an overall win.

If you're into Quake Arena, I guess. I voted for NF, and think that EV is an abomination. I don't think they go together necessarily and would rather see EV removed, though I am open minded to being proven wrong.

Agree, it's tough to say. Having played literally hundreds of freeshards over the years it was always apparent people generally enjoyed quick action. This idea of giant maps and zones where looking for a fight for 15 minutes suits the current daoc players, who are generally older and have less free time, is just kinda silly.

I also don't like this notion that solo players matter at all. The truth is, in this dying game, the solo players can't possibly carry a server to have a healthy population. Almost all pve, quests, rvr, keep take, raids, etc focus on grouping; this idea that solo players in an mmo with that much grouping focus for a low pop server matter at all is a bit misguided. If anyone had to choose to appease solo players or grouped players the answer should always be grouped. This is why I think EV makes more sense as it's generally more balanced for 3 way rvr in groups than OF is, especially for lower pop.

Fri 21 Jun 2019 8:37 PM by Kaseylol

rodsta69 wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 8:25 PM
Kaseylol wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 7:11 PM
Switching to NF permanently, however, is a drastic change that could potentially increase the population. I'd love to see thousands on again like at launch and I believe NF launched permanently may be the news that grows our pop back.

There is no proof that this will be the result, and even if it does result in some new people coming, it could also result in a fair chunk of the 38%, a not insignificant percentage, of people that voted for OF leaving the server, so that could either be balanced out by new people or possibly still be a net negative for the population. It's all speculation though and time will tell.

There is proof that OF, in isolation, has not increased population in months. This is apparent just by the general population numbers.

There is also proof that more than half the population wants NF. This is apparent in the polls.

Adding those two together it's absolutely absurd to imply implementing NF doesn't have a higher chance of growing the population. Simple.

If your goal is to simply keep keep as much of the current population, without worrying at all about getting new players, NF still wins that decision, as demonstrated by the vote with over 60% for NF. Adding the possibility of new players joining who quit or never joined due to OF, the answer is obvious.

Anyone who claims the population will die due to NF is absolutely moronic and I'd love to argue with any of you. Bring a calculator.

Fri 21 Jun 2019 8:40 PM by teiloh

cere2 wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 4:40 PM
Druth wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 4:33 PM
Not a resounding victory.

I'm a NF fan, but not really sure the vote convinced me it's good to change.
So 5% would make you convinced? The vote was 61%, but your saying if it was 2/3 or 66% it would be good?

If it was 53% to 47% I could see the argument of leaving it. But its closer to 2/3 than 1/2 by a lot.

People vote for the less optimal option all the time.

How about putting ToA, or OF RAs, or whatever else to a vote?

Fri 21 Jun 2019 8:41 PM by teiloh

Kaseylol wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 8:37 PM
There is proof that OF, in isolation, has not increased population in months. This is apparent just by the general population numbers.

There is also proof that more than half the population wants NF. This is apparent in the polls.

Adding those two together it's absolutely absurd to imply implementing NF doesn't have a higher chance of growing the population. Simple.

If your goal is to simply keep keep as much of the current population, without worrying at all about getting new players, NF still wins that decision, as demonstrated by the vote with over 60% for NF. Adding the possibility of new players joining who quit or never joined due to OF, the answer is obvious.

Anyone who claims the population will die due to NF is absolutely moronic and I'd love to argue with any of you. Bring a calculator.

NF population slowly died for a reason. Once people start realizing that they're only getting real fights every hour or so they'll trickle off elsewhere, just like what happened on live.

And in a year or so live will be competing with Phoenix, and it sounds a little more appealing than what we had here a week ago.

Here's an indisputable fact: the general population has been declining for months under OF. People who have never joined or quit months ago are clearly not returning and there's no reason to believe a continued state of OF would change that.

Here's an indisputable fact - after NF, and NNF, and NNNF, the population on live kept dropping and never recovered.

Then someone made an OF server, and there was huge interest. I didn't quit NF for nostalgia reasons, I quit DaoC because I have a list of about 200 things I'd rather do than twiddle my thumbs for 20-30 minutes before fighting a real fight.

Fri 21 Jun 2019 8:45 PM by Druth

Bumbles wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 6:56 PM
exactly, people only had NF for a week and it still got 61% of the votes...if it had been up longer that number would have been higher in theory. Look through the forums and you will find plenty of people who were so anti NF until they actually played it for a week. Some who voted probably never stepped foot into NF.

You don't think that people might be attracted to whats new and different?

Guess that with some more NF polish, that it would be a great change.

Fri 21 Jun 2019 8:47 PM by Kaseylol

teiloh wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 8:41 PM
Kaseylol wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 8:37 PM
There is proof that OF, in isolation, has not increased population in months. This is apparent just by the general population numbers.

There is also proof that more than half the population wants NF. This is apparent in the polls.

Adding those two together it's absolutely absurd to imply implementing NF doesn't have a higher chance of growing the population. Simple.

If your goal is to simply keep keep as much of the current population, without worrying at all about getting new players, NF still wins that decision, as demonstrated by the vote with over 60% for NF. Adding the possibility of new players joining who quit or never joined due to OF, the answer is obvious.

Anyone who claims the population will die due to NF is absolutely moronic and I'd love to argue with any of you. Bring a calculator.

NF population slowly died for a reason. Once people start realizing that they're only getting real fights every hour or so they'll trickle off elsewhere, just like what happened on live.

And in a year or so live will be competing with Phoenix, and it sounds a little more appealing than what we had here a week ago.

NF population died? How do you figure?

People tried it out a bit and then went back to pve. Your claim that these people rvrd in OF, tried NF, then quit has no evidence. In fact, there's evidence the majority of players on the server enjoyed NF more.

There's also the fact the population has been in a decline since we'll before the NF test. Care to articulate how you've isolated the decline in players in general vs the decline in players due to NF?

https://unixgeek.com/phoenix.html

All of you people saying this server was designed as OF and that's why people play it are seriously misguided. There's demonstrable evidence, through in game polling, that the majority of players liked NF. Additionally, the general population has been in a decline for months, even with OF, so to claim OF had some sort of charm carrying the server is not supported by any evidence either.

Fri 21 Jun 2019 8:48 PM by teiloh

Druth wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 8:45 PM
Bumbles wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 6:56 PM
exactly, people only had NF for a week and it still got 61% of the votes...if it had been up longer that number would have been higher in theory. Look through the forums and you will find plenty of people who were so anti NF until they actually played it for a week. Some who voted probably never stepped foot into NF.

You don't think that people might be attracted to whats new and different?

Guess that with some more NF polish, that it would be a great change.

I know I hated NF from the start on live, and as the days went on I hated it more, and more until I quit. That's the story of most people who quit during the NF cycle.

Fri 21 Jun 2019 8:48 PM by relvinian

Druth wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 5:06 PM
cere2 wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 4:40 PM
Druth wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 4:33 PM
Not a resounding victory.

I'm a NF fan, but not really sure the vote convinced me it's good to change.
So 5% would make you convinced? The vote was 61%, but your saying if it was 2/3 or 66% it would be good?

If it was 53% to 47% I could see the argument of leaving it. But its closer to 2/3 than 1/2 by a lot.

People had NF 1 week, and OF for 5 months. I had expected a resounding vote in favor for NF.

That is correct. I already made a post about how NF WAS GOING TO HAPPEN, when the test started.

People want to new, shiny, trash-- just look at the kardashians. So we knew NF would be. That we would have the ILLUSION of choice.

And guess what?

Quotes from me on June 10th

"Get ready to retire. This is the illusion of choice."

"There is no way we will go back to of. Sure, they will roll it back when test ends. They will make some sort of poll.

At the end of the day, we will have nf."

I nailed it.

Fri 21 Jun 2019 8:49 PM by teiloh

Kaseylol wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 8:47 PM
NF population died? How do you figure?

I'm talking about Live. Live highlighted NF, NNF and NNNF's failure. The mass-quitting happened after WoW, yes, but no iteration of NF has ever held significant interest.

In fact it's so bad that we saw 95%+ of DAoC's population drop under NF.

Fri 21 Jun 2019 8:54 PM by Kaseylol

teiloh wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 8:49 PM
Kaseylol wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 8:47 PM
NF population died? How do you figure?

I'm talking about Live. Live highlighted NF, NNF and NNNF's failure. The mass-quitting happened after WoW, yes, but no iteration of NF has ever held significant interest.

In fact it's so bad that we saw 95%+ of DAoC's population drop under NF.

I quit live as well but it had nothing to do with the map. This is a classic case of correlation vs causation. How do you isolate the rvr map as the reason live died from, oh I don't know, the sub cost, the normalization of classes (sorcerers have speed 6 now), instant full cap buff pots, in game cash shop, power creep of all classes with things like mythical caps, the removal of the need to do anything to gear up (toa credit merchants etc)... And on and on?

You can't. You have multiple points of evidence showing you NF is preferred, and OF has not caused spikes in population, yet you still sit here and claim OF is the only hope for the server.

You are simply delusional.

Fri 21 Jun 2019 8:56 PM by cere2

teiloh wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 8:49 PM
Kaseylol wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 8:47 PM
NF population died? How do you figure?

I'm talking about Live. Live highlighted NF, NNF and NNNF's failure. The mass-quitting happened after WoW, yes, but no iteration of NF has ever held significant interest.

In fact it's so bad that we saw 95%+ of DAoC's population drop under NF.

Indisputable facts? Unless you look them up?

Population on Live increased after launch of NF and after launch of TOA.

You can google it. So much for indisputable.

Fri 21 Jun 2019 8:58 PM by teiloh

Kaseylol wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 8:54 PM
I quit live as well but it had nothing to do with the map. This is a classic case of correlation vs causation. How do you isolate the rvr map as the reason live died from, oh I don't know, the sub cost, the normalization of classes (sorcerers have speed 6 now), instant full cap buff pots, in game cash shop, power creep of all classes with things like mythical caps, the removal of the need to do anything to gear up (toa credit merchants etc)... And on and on?

You can't. You have multiple points of evidence showing you NF is preferred, and OF has not caused spikes in population, yet you still sit here and claim OF is the only hope for the server.

You are simply delusional.

1. Sub cost. Live will be going F2P. If sub cost is the issue, this server signed its own 12-18 month death warrant.
2. Normalization of classes and power creep. 90%+ of the population was gone before it all happened. BS's "adventurous" rebalancings were desperate attempts to grab back population.

My key argument:

1. We need an optimized QOL improved OF and try that for a while. See if populations remain stable. Only one forward port and milegate-busting mechanics.
2. If we get NF, remove most of the towers, limit porting to one or two forward keeps, and dynamically wall off most of the areas with mobs/guards/environmental effects during low-pop times (after server reset?). Then consider deleting boats entirely.

20-30 minute wait times between fights will kill the game like it killed live, and that's from my experience getting 15k-18k/hr roaming on NF last week.

Fri 21 Jun 2019 8:59 PM by cere2

teiloh wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 8:49 PM
Kaseylol wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 8:47 PM
NF population died? How do you figure?

I'm talking about Live. Live highlighted NF, NNF and NNNF's failure. The mass-quitting happened after WoW, yes, but no iteration of NF has ever held significant interest.

In fact it's so bad that we saw 95%+ of DAoC's population drop under NF.

In fact? Good grief man, do some research.

I suppose OF had nothing to do with Uthgard dying off.
Had to be some else!
But NF kills all! I guess population here was increasing daily, since we had OF right?

Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:02 PM by Kaseylol

teiloh wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 8:58 PM
Kaseylol wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 8:54 PM
I quit live as well but it had nothing to do with the map. This is a classic case of correlation vs causation. How do you isolate the rvr map as the reason live died from, oh I don't know, the sub cost, the normalization of classes (sorcerers have speed 6 now), instant full cap buff pots, in game cash shop, power creep of all classes with things like mythical caps, the removal of the need to do anything to gear up (toa credit merchants etc)... And on and on?

You can't. You have multiple points of evidence showing you NF is preferred, and OF has not caused spikes in population, yet you still sit here and claim OF is the only hope for the server.

You are simply delusional.

1. Sub cost. Live will be going F2P. If sub cost is the issue, this server signed its own 12-18 month death warrant.
2. Normalization of classes and power creep. 90%+ of the population was gone before it all happened. BS's "adventurous" rebalancings were desperate attempts to grab back population.

My key argument:

1. We need an optimized QOL improved OF and try that for a while. See if populations remain stable. Only one forward port and milegate-busting mechanics.
2. If we get NF, remove most of the towers, limit porting to one or two forward-keeps, and dynamically wall off most of the areas with mobs/guards/environmental effects during low-pop times (after server reset?)

20-30 minute wait times between fights will kill the game like it killed live, and that's from my experience getting 15k-18k/hr roaming on NF last week.

F2p on live is incredibly limiting and still offers an incredibly different experience than Phoenix. This also completely ignores the entire list of reasons as if (unsuccessfully) countering one of them means much.

Many changes happened before the pop died. You still haven't at all demonstrated how you know NF map was the reason people quit, nor have you addressed any of my other points.

As ceremone stated above, why did uthgard die if OF was the answer to all population problems?

Why has phoenix not been gaining players over the last several months with OF?

As they say, you can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.

Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:13 PM by teiloh

Kaseylol wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:02 PM
F2p on live is incredibly limiting and still offers an incredibly different experience than Phoenix. This also completely ignores the entire list of reasons as if (unsuccessfully) countering one of them means much.

Many changes happened before the pop died. You still haven't at all demonstrated how you know NF map was the reason people quit, nor have you addressed any of my other points.

As ceremone stated above, why did uthgard die if OF was the answer to all population problems?

Why has phoenix not been gaining players over the last several months with OF?

As they say, you can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.

F2P on Live - see the recent newsletter. It will be far less limiting, and especially for returning players.

Uthgard - lets compare Uthgard live to Phoenix at release. Uthgard had a brutal grind to 50 and no QOL improvements. Many Phoenix changes vastly improved upon these gripes. However many legacy issues remained - mile gates and porting. These can be tweaked and adjusted.

Not gaining players, see above. I highly doubt you're going to see a positive population change with NF.

Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:20 PM by cere2

teiloh wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:13 PM
Kaseylol wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:02 PM
F2p on live is incredibly limiting and still offers an incredibly different experience than Phoenix. This also completely ignores the entire list of reasons as if (unsuccessfully) countering one of them means much.

Many changes happened before the pop died. You still haven't at all demonstrated how you know NF map was the reason people quit, nor have you addressed any of my other points.

As ceremone stated above, why did uthgard die if OF was the answer to all population problems?

Why has phoenix not been gaining players over the last several months with OF?

As they say, you can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.

F2P on Live - see the recent newsletter. It will be far less limiting, and especially for returning players.

Uthgard - lets compare Uthgard live to Phoenix at release. Uthgard had a brutal grind to 50 and no QOL improvements. Many Phoenix changes vastly improved upon these gripes. However many legacy issues remained - mile gates and porting. These can be tweaked and adjusted.

Not gaining players, see above. I highly doubt you're going to see a positive population change with NF.

And your not going to see a population jump with keeping OF. Population has been steadily decreasing, while having OF. But somehow comparing Phoenix to Live is fine, but comparing Phoenix to Uthgard is not.
Not sure why I even respond sometimes....

Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:24 PM by teiloh

cere2 wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:20 PM
Not sure why I even respond sometimes....

Who knows, because I didn't address the message to you. Try reading the context, kasey implied NF will bring back players.

It will not. So you have a slow decline under OF and a significant decline followed by a slow decline on NF.

Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:29 PM by Kaseylol

teiloh wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:24 PM
cere2 wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:20 PM
Not sure why I even respond sometimes....

Who knows, because I didn't address the message to you. Try reading the context, kasey implied NF will bring back players.

It will not. So you have a slow decline under OF and a significant decline followed by a slow decline on NF.

Significant population decline with NF yet almost 2/3 the population voted for NF.

More proof you're confused and objectively wrong, thanks.

Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:32 PM by teiloh

Kaseylol wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:29 PM
Significant population decline with NF yet almost 2/3 the population voted for NF.

More proof you're confused and objectively wrong, thanks.

Better poll would be -

1. NF or I quit
2. NF
3. Don't care
4. OF
5. OF or I quit

Considering the whole premise of this server was that it was going to be OF, I'd say the 5 column is likely to be fairly large. Most of those in the first would have gone by now.

If you want this server to be a ghost town within 12 months and still be RR4 or 5 or whatever, all the power to you. Don't say we didn't warn you.

Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:33 PM by Stoertebecker

teiloh wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 8:49 PM
Kaseylol wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 8:47 PM
NF population died? How do you figure?

I'm talking about Live. Live highlighted NF, NNF and NNNF's failure. The mass-quitting happened after WoW, yes, but no iteration of NF has ever held significant interest.

In fact it's so bad that we saw 95%+ of DAoC's population drop under NF.

With no NF, no ToA and no further addons and develoment DAoC would have died at the end of 2006 (at latest with the release of Warhammer Online), because it would have been a dead, boring game. Stagnation is always a step backwards.
There would be no Uthgard, no Phoenix....nothing.

Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:35 PM by teiloh

Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:33 PM
teiloh wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 8:49 PM
Kaseylol wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 8:47 PM
NF population died? How do you figure?

I'm talking about Live. Live highlighted NF, NNF and NNNF's failure. The mass-quitting happened after WoW, yes, but no iteration of NF has ever held significant interest.

In fact it's so bad that we saw 95%+ of DAoC's population drop under NF.

With no NF, no ToA and no further addons and develoment DAoC would have died at the end of 2006 (at latest with the release of Warhammer Online), because it would have been a dead, boring game. Stagnation is always a step backwards.
There would be no Uthgard, no Phoenix....nothing.

NF is and always was garbage. OF with fixes was the right way to go. DaoC would have still slowly died considering how many mistakes the "design" team made, but still.

Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:36 PM by MyCatKevin

teiloh wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:32 PM
Kaseylol wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:29 PM
Significant population decline with NF yet almost 2/3 the population voted for NF.

More proof you're confused and objectively wrong, thanks.

Better poll would be -

1. NF or I quit
2. NF
3. Don't care
4. OF
5. OF or I quit

Considering the whole premise of this server was that it was going to be OF, I'd say the 5 column is likely to be fairly large. Most of those in the first would have gone by now.

If you want this server to be a ghost town within 12 months and still be RR4 or 5 or whatever, all the power to you. Don't say we didn't warn you.

Did you miss the part where almost 2/3rds of the pop voted for NF?

Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:37 PM by cere2

teiloh wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:32 PM
Kaseylol wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:29 PM
Significant population decline with NF yet almost 2/3 the population voted for NF.

More proof you're confused and objectively wrong, thanks.

Better poll would be -

1. NF or I quit
2. NF
3. Don't care
4. OF
5. OF or I quit

Considering the whole premise of this server was that it was going to be OF, I'd say the 5 column is likely to be fairly large. Most of those in the first would have gone by now.

If you want this server to be a ghost town within 12 months and still be RR4 or 5 or whatever, all the power to you. Don't say we didn't warn you.

And here is some more BS that just spews from your mouth. Can you show where the premise of the server says its going to be OF? Or does it say they used a foundation of 1.65, and you are interpreting that as being OF only. Kinda like OF RA's etc..ugh

Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:39 PM by teiloh

MyCatKevin wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:36 PM
teiloh wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:32 PM
Kaseylol wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:29 PM
Significant population decline with NF yet almost 2/3 the population voted for NF.

More proof you're confused and objectively wrong, thanks.

Better poll would be -

1. NF or I quit
2. NF
3. Don't care
4. OF
5. OF or I quit

Considering the whole premise of this server was that it was going to be OF, I'd say the 5 column is likely to be fairly large. Most of those in the first would have gone by now.

If you want this server to be a ghost town within 12 months and still be RR4 or 5 or whatever, all the power to you. Don't say we didn't warn you.

Did you miss the part where almost 2/3rds of the pop voted for NF?

There wasn't a sliding scale of preference nor did it differentiate time /played or realm ranks. I'll take a die-hard fan over someone who just logs in to catapult a keep wall while shooting the shit in discord.

That was the cardinal mistake Mythic made with OF vs. NF, they polled really transient populations who tend to not stick around or really commit to a game, and blew off their core /played population.

Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:39 PM by Ashenspire

teiloh wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:35 PM
Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:33 PM
teiloh wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 8:49 PM
I'm talking about Live. Live highlighted NF, NNF and NNNF's failure. The mass-quitting happened after WoW, yes, but no iteration of NF has ever held significant interest.

In fact it's so bad that we saw 95%+ of DAoC's population drop under NF.

With no NF, no ToA and no further addons and develoment DAoC would have died at the end of 2006 (at latest with the release of Warhammer Online), because it would have been a dead, boring game. Stagnation is always a step backwards.
There would be no Uthgard, no Phoenix....nothing.

NF is and always was garbage. OF with fixes was the right way to go. DaoC would have still slowly died considering how many mistakes the "design" team made, but still.

"OF with fixes was the right way to go."

You have nothing to substantiate that claim. This servers pop dwindled with OF. It may continue to do so with NF. It may not. You don't have those numbers.

It's also never been done, as New Frontiers was LITERALLY the fix to Old Frontiers as it was fundamentally broken from a balance standpoint.

What we do know is both ToA and NF increased the live games population significantly until September '05. But that's a different story altogether.

Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:40 PM by teiloh

cere2 wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:37 PM
And here is some more BS that just spews from your mouth. Can you show where the premise of the server says its going to be OF? Or does it say they used a foundation of 1.65, and you are interpreting that as being OF only. Kinda like OF RA's etc..ugh

Tagline was 1.65 with QOL. The idea that NF was even on the table was something they denied and rejected for the longest time, saying it would take a full year to implement.

Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:42 PM by cere2

teiloh wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:40 PM
cere2 wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:37 PM
And here is some more BS that just spews from your mouth. Can you show where the premise of the server says its going to be OF? Or does it say they used a foundation of 1.65, and you are interpreting that as being OF only. Kinda like OF RA's etc..ugh

Tagline was 1.65 with QOL. The idea that NF was even on the table was something they denied and rejected for the longest time, saying it would take a full year to implement.

They said that like 2 months ago, and apparently were mistaken. Obviously it didn't take that long.
And QOL could mean NF, could mean TOA, could mean NF RA's, could mean any number of things.

Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:43 PM by teiloh

cere2 wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:42 PM
teiloh wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:40 PM
cere2 wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:37 PM
And here is some more BS that just spews from your mouth. Can you show where the premise of the server says its going to be OF? Or does it say they used a foundation of 1.65, and you are interpreting that as being OF only. Kinda like OF RA's etc..ugh

Tagline was 1.65 with QOL. The idea that NF was even on the table was something they denied and rejected for the longest time, saying it would take a full year to implement.

They said that like 2 months ago, and apparently were mistaken. Obviously it didn't take that long.
And QOL could mean NF, could mean TOA, could mean NF RA's, could mean any number of things.

No, they specified NF alone.

Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:44 PM by Stoertebecker

teiloh wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:35 PM
Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:33 PM
teiloh wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 8:49 PM
I'm talking about Live. Live highlighted NF, NNF and NNNF's failure. The mass-quitting happened after WoW, yes, but no iteration of NF has ever held significant interest.

In fact it's so bad that we saw 95%+ of DAoC's population drop under NF.

With no NF, no ToA and no further addons and develoment DAoC would have died at the end of 2006 (at latest with the release of Warhammer Online), because it would have been a dead, boring game. Stagnation is always a step backwards.
There would be no Uthgard, no Phoenix....nothing.

NF is and always was garbage. OF with fixes was the right way to go. DaoC would have still slowly died considering how many mistakes the "design" team made, but still.

Aye, and know it all, i see. Whats the name of the XXX MMorpg you are running?

Get that in your head, the majority voted NF. And most of this majority would even play if OF stays.
The only ppl that cause some drama are OF-or-i-quit crybabes like you.

Nearly 2/3 majority. In most countries you can change the government with such a majority.

Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:44 PM by Kaseylol

teiloh wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:39 PM
MyCatKevin wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:36 PM
teiloh wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:32 PM
Better poll would be -

1. NF or I quit
2. NF
3. Don't care
4. OF
5. OF or I quit

Considering the whole premise of this server was that it was going to be OF, I'd say the 5 column is likely to be fairly large. Most of those in the first would have gone by now.

If you want this server to be a ghost town within 12 months and still be RR4 or 5 or whatever, all the power to you. Don't say we didn't warn you.

Did you miss the part where almost 2/3rds of the pop voted for NF?

There wasn't a sliding scale of preference nor did it differentiate time /played or realm ranks. I'll take a die-hard fan over someone who just logs in to catapult a keep wall while shooting the shit in discord.

That was the cardinal mistake Mythic made with OF vs. NF, they polled really transient populations who tend to not stick around or really commit to a game, and blew off their core /played population.

"I want to talk about total population, but I'll ignore votes made by the total population and instead use my own personal preference to determine what the general population wants"

How old are you? I don't think you have very good reading comprehension and continue to say things like "we" when everyone here is trying to help you understand why you're wrong.

Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:46 PM by teiloh

Kaseylol wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:44 PM

It's clear that you need a little hand holding through this argument. The poll does nothing to gauge expected population decline, because it asks for a preference without qualifications.

A poll asking how many will quit with NF and OF would give you a better idea of that. But don't worry, we'll see it all play out soon enough.

Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:48 PM by Kaseylol

teiloh wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:46 PM
Kaseylol wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:44 PM

It's clear that you need a little hand holding through this argument. The poll does nothing to gauge expected population decline, because it asks for a preference without qualifications.

A poll asking how many will quit with NF and OF would give you a better idea of that. But don't worry, we'll see it all play out soon enough.

Nope, it wouldn't at all. The fact you claim a poll with the option "OF or I quit" would have more votes than "OF" has no basis in reality. More than half the people voted NF yet you think if you add a qualifier they would instead vote OF?

You are frustratingly stupid and I'm glad the gms are using polls and logic rather than your dumb ramblings to make decisions.

Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:51 PM by MyCatKevin

teiloh wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:39 PM
MyCatKevin wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:36 PM
teiloh wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:32 PM
Better poll would be -

1. NF or I quit
2. NF
3. Don't care
4. OF
5. OF or I quit

Considering the whole premise of this server was that it was going to be OF, I'd say the 5 column is likely to be fairly large. Most of those in the first would have gone by now.

If you want this server to be a ghost town within 12 months and still be RR4 or 5 or whatever, all the power to you. Don't say we didn't warn you.

Did you miss the part where almost 2/3rds of the pop voted for NF?

There wasn't a sliding scale of preference nor did it differentiate time /played or realm ranks. I'll take a die-hard fan over someone who just logs in to catapult a keep wall while shooting the shit in discord.

That was the cardinal mistake Mythic made with OF vs. NF, they polled really transient populations who tend to not stick around or really commit to a game, and blew off their core /played population.

You might, but people who play DAoC for Rvr/zergfest/keep takes might not. Especially if that die-hard fan is a stealther/8man/solo only player. There's nothing wrong with any play style - so to treat certain play styles as more valuable isn't helpful.

I have a feeling that if OF had won with the same margins that NF did, those who are trying to argue that OF should stay would be pointing to the results and talking about the mandate they have to keep OF.

I was pro-NF, but had NF won by only 5% or something I probably would have backed staying with OF because any big change when the opinion is that closely split isn't good. But when the margin is as large as it is it's a bad idea to backtrack.

Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:54 PM by teiloh

MyCatKevin wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:51 PM
You might, but people who play DAoC for Rvr/zergfest/keep takes might not. Especially if that die-hard fan is a stealther/8man/solo only player. There's nothing wrong with any play style - so to treat certain play styles as more valuable isn't helpful.

I have a feeling that if OF had won with the same margins that NF did, those who are trying to argue that OF should stay would be pointing to the results and talking about the mandate they have to keep OF.

I was pro-NF, but had NF won by only 5% or something I probably would have backed staying with OF because any big change when the opinion is that closely split isn't good. But when the margin is as large as it is it's a bad idea to backtrack.

RvR/Zergfest gets old fast in NF as well - the problem is fundamental to both systems. So now to get a tiny breath of life for RvR, we're replacing OF which a few hundred people will quit over.

imo fixes to OF would give us the best of both worlds, and a total overhaul of NF would be the second best bet.

My proposal would be to fix OF and see how population turns out and garner feedback on each step with the new polling situation, with NF as the last resort.

Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:54 PM by Kaseylol

MyCatKevin wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:51 PM
teiloh wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:39 PM
MyCatKevin wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:36 PM
Did you miss the part where almost 2/3rds of the pop voted for NF?

There wasn't a sliding scale of preference nor did it differentiate time /played or realm ranks. I'll take a die-hard fan over someone who just logs in to catapult a keep wall while shooting the shit in discord.

That was the cardinal mistake Mythic made with OF vs. NF, they polled really transient populations who tend to not stick around or really commit to a game, and blew off their core /played population.

You might, but people who play DAoC for Rvr/zergfest/keep takes might not. Especially if that die-hard fan is a stealther/8man/solo only player. There's nothing wrong with any play style - so to treat certain play styles as more valuable isn't helpful.

I have a feeling that if OF had won with the same margins that NF did, those who are trying to argue that OF should stay would be pointing to the results and talking about the mandate they have to keep OF.

I was pro-NF, but had NF won by only 5% or something I probably would have backed staying with OF because any big change when the opinion is that closely split isn't good. But when the margin is as large as it is it's a bad idea to backtrack.

I'm an "elitist" and only run smallman and 8man and almost everyone I know preferred NF to OF. This idea the person you replied to represents 'serious' or 'committed' players and everyone else is a noob keeptake zerger is absurdly false and I'd prefer not to let him get away with it. Especially considering, based on his signature, he's a pve animist and a ranger.

Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:59 PM by teiloh

Kaseylol wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:54 PM
I'm an "elitist" and only run smallman and 8man and almost everyone I know preferred NF to OF. This idea the person you replied to represents 'serious' or 'committed' players and everyone else is a noob keeptake zerger is absurdly false and I'd prefer not to let him get away with it. Especially considering, based on his signature, he's a pve animist and a ranger.

rofl you're referring to Cerebeblades, who is your comrade in your quest for RP communism.

Fri 21 Jun 2019 10:00 PM by MyCatKevin

Kaseylol wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:54 PM
MyCatKevin wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:51 PM
teiloh wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:39 PM
There wasn't a sliding scale of preference nor did it differentiate time /played or realm ranks. I'll take a die-hard fan over someone who just logs in to catapult a keep wall while shooting the shit in discord.

That was the cardinal mistake Mythic made with OF vs. NF, they polled really transient populations who tend to not stick around or really commit to a game, and blew off their core /played population.

You might, but people who play DAoC for Rvr/zergfest/keep takes might not. Especially if that die-hard fan is a stealther/8man/solo only player. There's nothing wrong with any play style - so to treat certain play styles as more valuable isn't helpful.

I have a feeling that if OF had won with the same margins that NF did, those who are trying to argue that OF should stay would be pointing to the results and talking about the mandate they have to keep OF.

I was pro-NF, but had NF won by only 5% or something I probably would have backed staying with OF because any big change when the opinion is that closely split isn't good. But when the margin is as large as it is it's a bad idea to backtrack.

I'm an "elitist" and only run smallman and 8man and almost everyone I know preferred NF to OF. This idea the person you replied to represents 'serious' or 'committed' players and everyone else is a noob keeptake zerger is absurdly false and I'd prefer not to let him get away with it.

Yeah, I don't think they represent anyone but themselves.

Fri 21 Jun 2019 10:03 PM by Kaseylol

teiloh wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:59 PM
Kaseylol wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:54 PM
I'm an "elitist" and only run smallman and 8man and almost everyone I know preferred NF to OF. This idea the person you replied to represents 'serious' or 'committed' players and everyone else is a noob keeptake zerger is absurdly false and I'd prefer not to let him get away with it. Especially considering, based on his signature, he's a pve animist and a ranger.

rofl you're referring to Cerebeblades, who is your comrade in your quest for RP communism.

Oops, my bad! Using forum on my phone. Coming from the Mapist dude who, based on zero evidence, and evidence to the contrary, claims OF will kill the server, I find it funny you use the word communist. The idea behind this change is more socialist than anything given that it's based on a community vote and generally promotes server health overall rather than focusing on the whines of a few select individuals such as yourself.

Fri 21 Jun 2019 10:04 PM by teiloh

Kaseylol wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 10:03 PM
Oops, my bad! Using forum on my phone. Coming from the Mapist dude who, based on zero evidence, and evidence to the contrary, claims OF will kill the server, I find it funny you use the word communist. The idea behind this change is more socialist than anything given that it's based on a community vote and generally promotes server health overall rather than focusing on the whines of a few select individuals such as yourself.

NF will likely kill the server without drastic changes. Don't worry, we'll see how it plays out.

Fri 21 Jun 2019 10:04 PM by MyCatKevin

teiloh wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:59 PM
Kaseylol wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:54 PM
I'm an "elitist" and only run smallman and 8man and almost everyone I know preferred NF to OF. This idea the person you replied to represents 'serious' or 'committed' players and everyone else is a noob keeptake zerger is absurdly false and I'd prefer not to let him get away with it. Especially considering, based on his signature, he's a pve animist and a ranger.

rofl you're referring to Cerebeblades, who is your comrade in your quest for RP communism.

Wants to overrule a nearly 2/3rds majority vote because they don't like the outcome.

Accuses other people of "communism"

Fri 21 Jun 2019 10:06 PM by teiloh

MyCatKevin wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 10:04 PM
Wants to overrule a nearly 2/3rds majority vote because they don't like the outcome.

Accuses other people of "communism"

If a 2/3rds majority designed this game to start with, it would have failed. Game design should not be a democracy.

But we're talking about you and Kasey's dreamed of RP communism, a brave new post-scarcity RP economy where you're rewarded for dying and afking at a keep.

Just a joke, don't get so mad.

Fri 21 Jun 2019 10:08 PM by Kaseylol

teiloh wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 10:04 PM
Kaseylol wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 10:03 PM
Oops, my bad! Using forum on my phone. Coming from the Mapist dude who, based on zero evidence, and evidence to the contrary, claims OF will kill the server, I find it funny you use the word communist. The idea behind this change is more socialist than anything given that it's based on a community vote and generally promotes server health overall rather than focusing on the whines of a few select individuals such as yourself.

NF will likely kill the server without drastic changes. Don't worry, we'll see how it plays out.

Based on what evidence? You continually make this blanket statement with zero justification as if it is inherently true. Not only do you provide zero supporting arguments to your claim you ignore contradictory evidence that completely nullifies your position.

We will see how it plays out, and you may very well be right, but I assure you it won't be because you're making an educated guess, and you certainly don't have the tools or skillset to prove you were right through evidence rather than sheer luck.

It's funny how you claim NF will be an afk keeptake zerg as if there isn't a 30 page thread about Hibernia afk keeptake zerging OF now. It's almost as if you blame the players for how they play and chose the map they are on as justification to be upset rather than the players themselves.

The irony is astounding for sure.

Fri 21 Jun 2019 10:10 PM by teiloh

Kaseylol wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 10:08 PM
Based on what evidence? You continually make this blanket statement with zero justification as if it is inherently true. Not only do you provide zero supporting arguments to your claim you ignore contradictory evidence that completely nullifies your position.

We will see how it plays out, and you may very well be right, but I assure you it won't be because you're making an educated guess, and you certainly don't have the tools or skill set to prove you were right through evidence rather than sheer luck.

I've already explained it to you 3 times, but here we go again - your poll is evidence for nothing. If people hated OF so much, they would have already quit. If people hated OF to begin with, they wouldn't have come to this server.

The only thing we don't have is concrete numbers on just how strongly each side feels (weighted by /played in RvR), but that will be decided in time if the team does go with the sub-optimal decision of implementing NF. I mean, we could have just asked them in a poll instead of waiting for the server to lose hundreds more players on top of natural attrition, but sometimes polls are just made to confirm and legitimize a decision that was being planned all along.

Fri 21 Jun 2019 10:15 PM by MyCatKevin

teiloh wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 10:06 PM
MyCatKevin wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 10:04 PM
Wants to overrule a nearly 2/3rds majority vote because they don't like the outcome.

Accuses other people of "communism"

If a 2/3rds majority designed this game to start with, it would have failed.Game design should not be a democracy.

But we're talking about you and Kasey's dreamed of RP communism, a brave new post-scarcity RP economy where you're rewarded for dying and afking at a keep.

Just a joke, don't get so mad.

So then you should be fine not getting a say in what happens and letting the GMs/Devs do what they want, right?

Fri 21 Jun 2019 10:16 PM by teiloh

MyCatKevin wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 10:15 PM
So then you should be fine not getting a say in what happens and letting the GMs/Devs do what they want, right?

They haven't polled for any other decision. Many have been good, some have been flawed. Now I'm voicing my opinion on polls with flawed methodology.

I have a feeling I will be proven right in subsequent population counts, but hey, I hope I'm wrong. This game has a lot of nice features, it'd be nice if it wouldn't die.

Fri 21 Jun 2019 10:25 PM by teiloh

Kaseylol wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 10:19 PM
More people vote for NF than OF and your first argument to invalidate the responses is that if, given the option to vote for 'OF or quit', they would have switched their vote from NF to OF?

You are so confused it's comical at this point. Why would someone who voted for NF over OF switch their vote entirely just by adding more qualifiers? How dumb do you have to be to believe people voted NF just because OF wasn't on a sliding scale? If they would have voted OF OR QUIT, they would have voted OF.

You are stupid.

It sounds like you're having trouble with basic logic and reading comprehension. The key difference would be separating those who slightly prefer NF from those who desperately want to click one button at a keep while they focus on chatting in discord.

To compare how many you will lose Option 1 vs Option 2, you know, you might have to ask them if their interest will be lost rather than a vague feeler for who slightly prefers what.

There is a huge group that rolled here because of OF, and those who only are here from Live because of OF and population.

But like I said, we'll discover this in time. Meanwhile, enjoy your suspension from the forums. It's sad that you feel so passionately about clicking the swing ram or catapult button that you become blind to logic and reason - and are totally incapable of being civil, like most loud pro-NF types are.

Fri 21 Jun 2019 10:28 PM by Bumbles

Druth wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 8:45 PM
Bumbles wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 6:56 PM
exactly, people only had NF for a week and it still got 61% of the votes...if it had been up longer that number would have been higher in theory. Look through the forums and you will find plenty of people who were so anti NF until they actually played it for a week. Some who voted probably never stepped foot into NF.

You don't think that people might be attracted to whats new and different?

Guess that with some more NF polish, that it would be a great change.

Oh of course I do. That's the reason this server did so well when it was released imo. I have no idea how things will turn out but all I can say is that for that NF week of RvR my personal rp/hr was almost triple what I get as a solo player in OF. So I'm hopeful at least but with every big change we lose players and that's the only reason I play here instead of live. Once the population dies I might as well go back to live.n

Fri 21 Jun 2019 10:32 PM by Kaseylol

teiloh wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 10:25 PM
Kaseylol wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 10:19 PM
More people vote for NF than OF and your first argument to invalidate the responses is that if, given the option to vote for 'OF or quit', they would have switched their vote from NF to OF?

You are so confused it's comical at this point. Why would someone who voted for NF over OF switch their vote entirely just by adding more qualifiers? How dumb do you have to be to believe people voted NF just because OF wasn't on a sliding scale? If they would have voted OF OR QUIT, they would have voted OF.

You are stupid.

It sounds like you're having trouble with basic logic and reading comprehension. The key difference would be separating those who slightly prefer NF from those who desperately want to click one button at a keep while they focus on chatting in discord.

To compare how many you will lose Option 1 vs Option 2, you know, you might have to ask them if their interest will be lost rather than a vague feeler for who slightly prefers what.

There is a huge group that rolled here because of OF, and those who only are here from Live because of OF and population.

But like I said, we'll discover this in time. Meanwhile, enjoy your suspension from the forums. It's sad that you feel so passionately about clicking the swing ram or catapult button that you become blind to logic and reason - and are totally incapable of being civil, like most loud pro-NF types are.

I understand what you're saying perfectly, it's just that it makes no sense. You've yet again completely ignored what I've said and reiterated your position without any justification. This huge group you claim came here for OF is not as large as you think considering they overwhelmingly lost the vote.

Round and round we go ☺

Fri 21 Jun 2019 10:33 PM by MyCatKevin

teiloh wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 10:25 PM
Kaseylol wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 10:19 PM
More people vote for NF than OF and your first argument to invalidate the responses is that if, given the option to vote for 'OF or quit', they would have switched their vote from NF to OF?

You are so confused it's comical at this point. Why would someone who voted for NF over OF switch their vote entirely just by adding more qualifiers? How dumb do you have to be to believe people voted NF just because OF wasn't on a sliding scale? If they would have voted OF OR QUIT, they would have voted OF.

You are stupid.

It sounds like you're having trouble with basic logic and reading comprehension. The key difference would be separating those who slightly prefer NF from those who desperately want to click one button at a keep while they focus on chatting in discord.

To compare how many you will lose Option 1 vs Option 2, you know, you might have to ask them if their interest will be lost rather than a vague feeler for who slightly prefers what.

There is a huge group that rolled here because of OF, and those who only are here from Live because of OF and population.

But like I said, we'll discover this in time. Meanwhile, enjoy your suspension from the forums. It's sad that you feel so passionately about clicking the swing ram or catapult button that you become blind to logic and reason - and are totally incapable of being civil, like most loud pro-NF types are.

Apparently not huge enough to win a vote.

Fri 21 Jun 2019 10:34 PM by teiloh

Kaseylol wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 10:32 PM

If you want to predict population, you ask who will quit under what conditions.

What we had was a poll that lumped people who vaguely prefer NF in with those who will leave if NF is not implemented and vice versa.

We are talking about RvR pop, yes? I imagine I'll be proven right in a few months, unless there are massive changes to NF.

Fri 21 Jun 2019 10:35 PM by teiloh

MyCatKevin wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 10:33 PM
Apparently not huge enough to win a vote.

Possibly big enough to send the server into a death spiral. But I'm sure you'll be out there PvEing keeps and getting RPs for fighting NPCs.

Fri 21 Jun 2019 10:38 PM by MyCatKevin

teiloh wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 10:34 PM
Kaseylol wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 10:32 PM

If you want to predict population, you ask who will quit under what conditions.

What we had was a poll that lumped people who vaguely prefer NF in with those who will leave if NF is not implemented and vice versa.

We are talking about RvR pop, yes? I imagine I'll be proven right in a few months, unless there are massive changes to NF.

You will definitely be proven right if your statement is "there will be less people playing in a few months than there are today."

But that trend is already happening. NF probably won't cause a ton of people to come back, it probably won't cause a ton of people to quit. But it will make it more fun for most of the population - which will likely lead to people staying longer. Even if that's just a couple more months.

Fri 21 Jun 2019 10:39 PM by Kaseylol

teiloh wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 10:34 PM
Kaseylol wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 10:32 PM

If you want to predict population, you ask who will quit under what conditions.

What we had was a poll that lumped people who vaguely prefer NF in with those who will leave if NF is not implemented and vice versa.

We are talking about RvR pop, yes? I imagine I'll be proven right in a few months, unless there are massive changes to NF.

If you want to predict population, ask what map players prefer to play on. Adding qualifiers that make no sense just because you don't like the result doesn't actually help your argument.

What we had was a poll that asked players which map they preferred, as well as a general decline in population over the past year on OF. ALL data points to NF being the correct map to use except for you and your mystical zerg of players who apparently didn't vote and are quitting Phoenix anyway.

Fri 21 Jun 2019 10:41 PM by teiloh

MyCatKevin wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 10:38 PM
You will definitely be proven right if your statement is "there will be less people playing in a few months than there are today."

But that trend is already happening. NF probably won't cause a ton of people to come back, it probably won't cause a ton of people to quit. But it will make it more fun for most of the population - which will likely lead to people staying longer. Even if that's just a couple more months.

People's enjoyment of this game as far as I know depends heavily on population. If you lose 10-25% of the population an in instant RvR breaks down a lot. You could also see a few trickle back over to live. Many of the people who voted for NF have expressed concerns along these lines.

My personal take is that if NF is not fixed so that more actual PvP happens, I don't want to play it.

Fri 21 Jun 2019 10:43 PM by Kaseylol

teiloh wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 10:41 PM
MyCatKevin wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 10:38 PM
You will definitely be proven right if your statement is "there will be less people playing in a few months than there are today."

But that trend is already happening. NF probably won't cause a ton of people to come back, it probably won't cause a ton of people to quit. But it will make it more fun for most of the population - which will likely lead to people staying longer. Even if that's just a couple more months.

People's enjoyment of this game as far as I know depends heavily on population. If you lose 10-25% of the population an in instant RvR breaks down a lot. You could also see a few trickle back over to live. Many of the people who voted for NF have expressed concerns along these lines.

My personal take is that if NF is not fixed so that more actual PvP happens, I don't want to play it.

"38% of the population wants OF so, to be sure we keep as many players as we can, let's ignore the other 62% and keep OF"

You belong on /r/iamverysmart

Fri 21 Jun 2019 10:50 PM by teiloh

Kaseylol wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 10:43 PM
"38% of the population wants OF so, to be sure we keep as many players as we can, let's ignore the other 62% and keep OF"

You belong on /r/iamverysmart

38% of the population that voted prefers OF. The remainder prefer NF. To what degree was not asked.

This is the 5th time I'm explaining an extremely simple concept to you. Do you want some diagrams?

Fri 21 Jun 2019 10:52 PM by Kaseylol

teiloh wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 10:50 PM
Kaseylol wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 10:43 PM
"38% of the population wants OF so, to be sure we keep as many players as we can, let's ignore the other 62% and keep OF"

You belong on /r/iamverysmart

38% of the population that voted prefers OF. The remainder prefer NF. To what degree was not asked.

This is the 5th time I'm explaining an extremely simple concept to you. Do you want some diagrams?

Sure, if a diagram helps you actually make a point.

Fri 21 Jun 2019 11:55 PM by rodsta69

teiloh wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:24 PM
So you have a slow decline under OF and a significant decline followed by a slow decline on NF.

This is my concern that some people seem to be ignoring. That if a decent chunk of the OF voters leave over the change, that's bad for everyone. The server is already noticeably more dead at certain times of the day than it was even a month ago. How many of those people were quitting because of not having NF, when it wasn't even thought of to be a possibility before 2 weeks ago? Or were they quitting because of general attrition, or other undesirable changes like the salvage nerf, and now here comes another massive change that wasn't there before people put a couple hundred hours into their toons when the premise was 1.65 plus QOL.

Lower population hurts everyone, whether we have OF or NF, and the "NF won, deal with it" crowd seems to be perfectly content with telling nearly 40% of the server to just fuck off and quit already if you don't like it, which if they did there would be no one left for you to fight in your precious NF except for a couple primetime hours each day.

To be clear I'm not saying OF should stick around either after the vote clearly shows more people want NF. But the whole rift created in the past two weeks I just hope is not what kills the population for good because I've been having a blast reliving some of the best gaming days of my life playing this game again and I don't want the server to die, regardless of which frontiers we have.

Sat 22 Jun 2019 12:03 AM by Kaseylol

rodsta69 wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 11:55 PM
teiloh wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:24 PM
So you have a slow decline under OF and a significant decline followed by a slow decline on NF.

This is my concern that some people seem to be ignoring. That if a decent chunk of the OF voters leave over the change, that's bad for everyone. The server is already noticeably more dead at certain times of the day than it was even a month ago. How many of those people were quitting because of not having NF, when it wasn't even thought of to be a possibility before 2 weeks ago? Or were they quitting because of general attrition, or other undesirable changes like the salvage nerf, and now here comes another massive change that wasn't there before people put a couple hundred hours into their toons when the premise was 1.65 plus QOL.

Lower population hurts everyone, whether we have OF or NF, and the "NF won, deal with it" crowd seems to be perfectly content with telling nearly 40% of the server to just fuck off and quit already if you don't like it, which if they did there would be no one left for you to fight in your precious NF except for a couple primetime hours each day.

To be clear I'm not saying OF should stick around either after the vote clearly shows more people want NF. But the whole rift created in the past two weeks I just hope is not what kills the population for good because I've been having a blast reliving some of the best gaming days of my life playing this game again and I don't want the server to die, regardless of which frontiers we have.

How do you justify this idea that the server might die due to NF when the MAJORITY OF PLAYERS ON THE SERVER VOTED FOR NF?

How do you justify the idea that OF might be the reason the population will grow when IT'S BEEN DECLINING FOR MONTHS ON OF?

The funniest part of this all to me is, logically, it's far more likely that many quit due to OF over the past year and have not logged in or played, thus haven't voted but would have voted NF. Coupled with the fact that the majority of active players also voted NF, there's actually zero logical, mathematical, or otherwise reason to believe OF is a good idea at all.

Yet here you are.

Sat 22 Jun 2019 12:10 AM by rodsta69

Kaseylol wrote: ↑
Sat 22 Jun 2019 12:03 AM
How do you justify this idea that the server might die due to NF when the MAJORITY OF PLAYERS ON THE SERVER VOTED FOR NF?

The majority yes, but not all. Are you denying that 38% is a significant portion of the server, and if a lot of that 38% quit it would be a major negative impact on the population?

Kaseylol wrote: ↑
Sat 22 Jun 2019 12:03 AM
How do you justify the idea that OF might be the reason the population will grow when IT'S BEEN DECLINING FOR MONTHS ON OF?

Where did I say OF would make the population grow. You're putting words in my mouth and then arguing against things I never said. Imo nothing is going to make the population grow at this point. The server isn't new anymore and was bound to slowly decline in population. Maybe NF will slow down the decline, maybe it will speed it up. No way to predict the future and we'll find out once it gets implemented.

Again, I AM NOT SAYING OF SHOULD STAY. I'm just hoping that this change doesn't have a major negative impact on the population.

Sat 22 Jun 2019 12:12 AM by Kaseylol

rodsta69 wrote: ↑
Sat 22 Jun 2019 12:10 AM
Kaseylol wrote: ↑
Sat 22 Jun 2019 12:03 AM
How do you justify this idea that the server might die due to NF when the MAJORITY OF PLAYERS ON THE SERVER VOTED FOR NF?

The majority yes, but not all. Are you denying that 38% is a significant portion of the server, and if a lot of that 38% quit it would be a major negative impact on the population?

Kaseylol wrote: ↑
Sat 22 Jun 2019 12:03 AM
How do you justify the idea that OF might be the reason the population will grow when IT'S BEEN DECLINING FOR MONTHS ON OF?

Where did I say OF would make the population grow. You're putting words in my mouth and then arguing against things I never said. Imo nothing is going to make the population grow at this point. The server isn't new anymore and was bound to slowly decline in population. Maybe NF will slow down the decline, maybe it will speed it up. No way to predict the future and we'll find out once it gets implemented.

Again, I AM NOT SAYING OF SHOULD STAY. I'm just hoping that this change doesn't have a major negative impact on the population.

How is arguing 38% of the server is a lot, so we should consider what they think, not a direct and stronger argument in favor of the other 62%?

Sat 22 Jun 2019 12:24 AM by rodsta69

Kaseylol wrote: ↑
Sat 22 Jun 2019 12:12 AM
How is arguing 38% of the server is a lot, so we should consider what they think, not a direct and stronger argument in favor of the other 62%?

Because we don't know how strongly the 62% felt vs the 38%. How many of the 62% were like "meh, I don't actually care but NF is something different so it has my vote" vs "If NF doesn't get implemented I'm quitting because I hate OF." The same goes for the OF votes. This vote doesn't tell us which direction will lead to the least amount of people quitting. It's possible that of the 38% that voted for OF, 60% of those people are die hard OF fans that will quit if NF gets implemented. Using the number of people that voted, that could mean 600+ people leaving. Meanwhile it could be 20% of the NF voters that are die hard NF fans and will quit if NF doesn't get implemented, which would be ~360 people leaving.

Obviously these are hypothetical numbers and we can't know what the percentages of die hard "OF/NF or I quit" actually are since that wasn't built into the poll. All I'm saying is it's absolutely possible for NF to both win this particular vote and result in more people leaving than keeping OF. I'm hoping that's not the case but it's not as clear cut as NF won the vote so switching to NF definitely, unequivocally means less loss in population. There's a lot of gray areas possible in the simple A or B vote.

Sat 22 Jun 2019 12:29 AM by Kaseylol

rodsta69 wrote: ↑
Sat 22 Jun 2019 12:24 AM
Kaseylol wrote: ↑
Sat 22 Jun 2019 12:12 AM
How is arguing 38% of the server is a lot, so we should consider what they think, not a direct and stronger argument in favor of the other 62%?

Because we don't know how strongly the 62% felt vs the 38%. How many of the 62% were like "meh, I don't actually care but NF is something different so it has my vote" vs "If NF doesn't get implemented I'm quitting because I hate OF." The same goes for the OF votes. This vote doesn't tell us which direction will lead to the least amount of people quitting. It's possible that of the 38% that voted for OF, 60% of those people are die hard OF fans that will quit if NF gets implemented. Using the number of people that voted, that could mean 600+ people leaving. Meanwhile it could be 20% of the NF voters that are die hard NF fans and will quit if NF doesn't get implemented, which would be ~360 people leaving.

Obviously these are hypothetical numbers and we can't know what the percentages of die hard "OF/NF or I quit" actually are since that wasn't built into the poll. All I'm saying is it's absolutely possible for NF to both win this particular vote and result in more people leaving than keeping OF. I'm hoping that's not the case but it's not as clear cut as NF won the vote so switching to NF definitely, unequivocally means less loss in population. There's a lot of gray areas possible in the simple A or B vote.

Yes, this has been discussed multiple times already.

All evidence shows that with OF, the server population has been declining for months. To make up some unjustified scenario that OF is carrying the population just to try and overrule a majority vote is absurd.

Sat 22 Jun 2019 12:36 AM by rodsta69

Kaseylol wrote: ↑
Sat 22 Jun 2019 12:29 AM
All evidence shows that with OF, the server population has been declining for months. To make up some unjustified scenario that OF is carrying the population just to try and overrule a majority vote is absurd.

What's absurd is saying I'm trying to overrule a majority vote when I have repeatedly said I am not saying OF should stay. Again, I'm not saying OF should stay. I'm just trying to highlight possibilities that some people seem to be ignoring when treating this vote like a black and white, cut and dry thing. I'm just making observations, not saying anything should change or shouldn't change or that the vote should be ignored because of those observations.

Sat 22 Jun 2019 12:53 AM by Kaseylol

rodsta69 wrote: ↑
Sat 22 Jun 2019 12:36 AM
Kaseylol wrote: ↑
Sat 22 Jun 2019 12:29 AM
All evidence shows that with OF, the server population has been declining for months. To make up some unjustified scenario that OF is carrying the population just to try and overrule a majority vote is absurd.

What's absurd is saying I'm trying to overrule a majority vote when I have repeatedly said I am not saying OF should stay. Again, I'm not saying OF should stay. I'm just trying to highlight possibilities that some people seem to be ignoring when treating this vote like a black and white, cut and dry thing. I'm just making observations, not saying anything should change or shouldn't change or that the vote should be ignored because of those observations.

Understood, thanks for the clarification

Sat 22 Jun 2019 12:48 PM by elninost0rm

Druth wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 5:06 PM
cere2 wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 4:40 PM
Druth wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 4:33 PM
Not a resounding victory.

I'm a NF fan, but not really sure the vote convinced me it's good to change.
So 5% would make you convinced? The vote was 61%, but your saying if it was 2/3 or 66% it would be good?

If it was 53% to 47% I could see the argument of leaving it. But its closer to 2/3 than 1/2 by a lot.

People had NF 1 week, and OF for 5 months. I had expected a resounding vote in favor for NF.

Not really a good comparison.

A lot of those that voted for NF had NF for 15 years or more. I know PLENTY of people that came back that last played in 2008, 2012, 2014, and so on. These shards are not the haven for pre-ToA cold turkey quitters like people think they are.

Sat 22 Jun 2019 4:35 PM by Bumbles

teiloh wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 8:49 PM
Kaseylol wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 8:47 PM
NF population died? How do you figure?

I'm talking about Live. Live highlighted NF, NNF and NNNF's failure. The mass-quitting happened after WoW, yes, but no iteration of NF has ever held significant interest.

In fact it's so bad that we saw 95%+ of DAoC's population drop under NF.

You are delusional. NF had very little to do with the loss of players on live. Stop looking through rose colored glasses simply because you hated it. Actually think bout class patches, PvE content being shoved down your throat etc..You use statements like 95% of the population dropped under NF as if you make a direct correlation it being NFs fault and make no mention of adjustments they made, patches, Kuji, revamps etc which in reality had everything to do with population decline on Live. Your hate is strong.

Sat 22 Jun 2019 4:44 PM by teiloh

Bumbles wrote: ↑
Sat 22 Jun 2019 4:35 PM
You are delusional. NF had very little to do with the loss of players on live. Stop looking through rose colored glasses simply because you hated it. Actually think bout class patches, PvE content being shoved down your throat etc..You use statements like 95% of the population dropped under NF as if you make a direct correlation it being NFs fault and make no mention of adjustments they made, patches, Kuji, revamps etc which in reality had everything to do with population decline on Live. Your hate is strong.

lol, you must have joined the game after the Ywain cluster or something. Almost all of the population was gone by then, long before the shitty BS class patches.

Sat 22 Jun 2019 5:54 PM by Isavyr

teiloh wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:35 PM
NF is and always was garbage. OF with fixes was the right way to go. DaoC would have still slowly died considering how many mistakes the "design" team made, but still.

What mistakes?

Sat 22 Jun 2019 8:51 PM by Galandor

You people need to let it go lol

Sun 23 Jun 2019 4:09 AM by Bumbles

teiloh wrote: ↑
Sat 22 Jun 2019 4:44 PM
Bumbles wrote: ↑
Sat 22 Jun 2019 4:35 PM
You are delusional. NF had very little to do with the loss of players on live. Stop looking through rose colored glasses simply because you hated it. Actually think bout class patches, PvE content being shoved down your throat etc..You use statements like 95% of the population dropped under NF as if you make a direct correlation it being NFs fault and make no mention of adjustments they made, patches, Kuji, revamps etc which in reality had everything to do with population decline on Live. Your hate is strong.

lol, you must have joined the game after the Ywain cluster or something. Almost all of the population was gone by then, long before the shitty BS class patches.

Actually I played the game straight since 2002. So I have seen every iteration and every wave the game offered. And again you are lying. If you are just going to make things up just realize that people who were there and know better will call you out on it. So try again.

Sun 23 Jun 2019 4:19 AM by teiloh

Isavyr wrote: ↑
Sat 22 Jun 2019 5:54 PM
teiloh wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:35 PM
NF is and always was garbage. OF with fixes was the right way to go. DaoC would have still slowly died considering how many mistakes the "design" team made, but still.

What mistakes?

A lot of bad class balance and map design mainly.

Sun 23 Jun 2019 4:12 PM by Isavyr

teiloh wrote: ↑
Sun 23 Jun 2019 4:19 AM
Isavyr wrote: ↑
Sat 22 Jun 2019 5:54 PM
teiloh wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:35 PM
NF is and always was garbage. OF with fixes was the right way to go. DaoC would have still slowly died considering how many mistakes the "design" team made, but still.

What mistakes?

A lot of bad class balance and map design mainly.

DAOC always had really badly balanced classes, so how did Phoenix create that issue? Could you list examples?

Sun 23 Jun 2019 4:32 PM by teiloh

Isavyr wrote: ↑
Sun 23 Jun 2019 4:12 PM
teiloh wrote: ↑
Sun 23 Jun 2019 4:19 AM
Isavyr wrote: ↑
Sat 22 Jun 2019 5:54 PM
What mistakes?

A lot of bad class balance and map design mainly.

DAOC always had really badly balanced classes, so how did Phoenix create that issue? Could you list examples?

This is referring to Mythic and BS, not Phoenix

Sun 23 Jun 2019 4:51 PM by AngelRose

95% drop off due to NF roll out. hahhahhahahha. Do you always just make up numbers?

Sun 23 Jun 2019 5:09 PM by Connavar

10 pages of discussion and no real arguments. OF is garbage, NF will kill everything. Whats your point for such decision? I guess you have some points but noone tells them.

To make it clear i give you some examples:

I hate NF because as a alb/mid i know need a boat or must walk there. With OF i can teleport to emain and have fun.
I hate OF because the most action is in emain and they isn't enough space to evade the enemy.
I like NF because the keep and tower fights are now with real enemies and not only pve.
I like OF because i am used to it.

And so on.

I must admit that the we lose players - true, its summer.
And i think NF gives us more keep action, less downtime and more fun for smaller groups and solos. More rvr, less pve in the frontier. My opinion - what is yours?

Sun 23 Jun 2019 9:08 PM by Citian

Sun 23 Jun 2019 9:27 PM by Saroi

Connavar wrote: ↑
Sun 23 Jun 2019 5:09 PM
I like NF because the keep and tower fights are now with real enemies and not only pve.

Just saying that Pilzpower did the same in NF, taking Keeps in the morning and later towers because guards are too strong to take keeps on Primetime. But even in NF there were not so many defenders as some people are saying. In fact. just look up Pilzpower and you see he has more kills in OF than in NF, so much for only pve.
NF: 32XX kills, atm he is by 39XX kills. The week before NF came he had 36XX kills.

Mon 24 Jun 2019 10:55 AM by Anelyn77

It's not really Pilz fault (or anyone else on Mid or Alb who leads BGs) if the opposing realms refuse to engage in big battles / challenge. If your realm is happy to just flip back / take their keeps when they stop running then point the finger at yourself as much as you point it at Pilz / whoever else leads BGs.

FACT: this past saturday we had HUGE zerg battles all 3 realms involved around DC, open field no keep shenanigans, Albs vs Hibs vs Mids, was 3h+ of epic awesomeness, everyone had tons of fun, got good RPs, good laughs and what not (as all 3 realms keept coming back to same place even after they lost a fight). This should be the meta / norm for RvR fights, not pvedoor.

/Bnotashamed 4L7 pac healer + Aicha 5L5 mentalist

Mon 24 Jun 2019 11:16 AM by florin

Anelyn77 wrote: ↑
Mon 24 Jun 2019 10:55 AM
It's not really Pilz fault (or anyone else on Mid or Alb who leads BGs) if the opposing realms refuse to engage in big battles / challenge. If your realm is happy to just flip back / take their keeps when they stop running then point the finger at yourself as much as you point it at Pilz / whoever else leads BGs.

FACT: this past saturday we had HUGE zerg battles all 3 realms involved around DC, open field no keep shenanigans, Albs vs Hibs vs Mids, was 3h+ of epic awesomeness, everyone had tons of fun, got good RPs, good laughs and what not (as all 3 realms keept coming back to same place even after they lost a fight). This should be the meta / norm for RvR fights, not pvedoor.

/Bnotashamed 4L7 pac healer + Aicha 5L5 mentalist

I’ve talked to a couple hibs who came to alb and said they didn’t like Pilz raids cause he avoided fights. I know we have had to chase him down several times.
So I’m a little skeptical that one battle has changed that.

Mon 24 Jun 2019 11:22 AM by Anelyn77

Apples and oranges. For past days I played on hib exclusively (am mid main), and I was always in pilz bg / grp / disco. Never run from a single fight in my whole playtime period (~3days played on my mentalist - in game time). We actually made efforts to run into Mids BG and Albs BG skipping tasks to get to fights.

Come NF there should be an incremental increase in open field zerg battles for obvious reasons, so looking forward to those (irrelevant if I will play on mid or hib, I just love the action huge battles, just as much as I appreciate small / 8m, and NF is better at accommodating both). Also, in NF test week we had several huge fights BG vs BG against Pilz with our Quorum AS BG (Jenini + Grumpybutt), most of them in EV not at keeps / towers, same with Albs BG (sorry don't know who your leader[s] are yet).

/Bnotashamed pac healer + Aicha mentalist

Mon 24 Jun 2019 11:24 AM by dstrmberg

Guys... guys... GUYS!!!

Devs have already almost doubled the NF boat travel speed! I believe they will continue to improve QoL.

More action => players come back (due to rumours indicating action on server) => server thrives

Mon 24 Jun 2019 11:43 AM by florin

Anelyn77 wrote: ↑
Mon 24 Jun 2019 11:22 AM
Apples and oranges. For past days I played on hib exclusively (am mid main), and I was always in pilz bg / grp / disco. Never run from a single fight in my whole playtime period (~3days played on my mentalist - in game time). We actually made efforts to run into Mids BG and Albs BG skipping tasks to get to fights.

Come NF there should be an incremental increase in open field zerg battles for obvious reasons, so looking forward to those (irrelevant if I will play on mid or hib, I just love the action huge battles, just as much as I appreciate small / 8m, and NF is better at accommodating both). Also, in NF test week we had several huge fights BG vs BG against Pilz with our Quorum AS BG (Jenini + Grumpybutt), most of them in EV not at keeps / towers, same with Albs BG (sorry don't know who your leader[s] are yet).

/Bnotashamed pac healer + Aicha mentalist

Will be looking forward to seeing you open field and in nf. We had an awesome siege at bolg during nf. That being said - apples and oranges is probably not your best argument. Pilz is known to run from fights, your 3 days played notwithstanding. I think you jumped my necro near hurbury last week. Was that you?

Mon 24 Jun 2019 11:50 AM by Anelyn77

I don't recall me jumping on anyone, don't really solo on my mentalist (but I do on my paci healer), if it was a keep fight then red is dead - as it should be.

I am not bringing arguments, just stating the fact that different people - different opinions / experiences, I only speak for myself and my own experiences in game, not what X or Y told me. So my argument is valid in what regards myself. We never rund from a fight, on the contrary we went out of our normal path to get to fights for the time I played.

Looking forward to see more albs out for sure! <3

/Bnotashamed pac healer + Aicha mentalist

Mon 24 Jun 2019 11:52 AM by florin

Anelyn77 wrote: ↑
Mon 24 Jun 2019 11:50 AM
I don't recall me jumping on anyone, don't really solo on my mentalist (but I do on my paci healer), if it was a keep fight then red is dead - as it should be.

I am not bringing arguments, just stating the fact that different people - different opinions / experiences, I only speak for myself and my own experiences in game, not what X or Y told me. So my argument is valid in what regards myself. We never rund from a fight, on the contrary we went out of our normal path to get to fights for the time I played.

Looking forward to see more albs out for sure! <3

/Bnotashamed pac healer + Aicha mentalist

Ah it was likely another rank 4 mentalist with Ellyl pet and name starting with A. Not sure to be honest - red is dead and that menty got dead

Mon 24 Jun 2019 11:57 AM by Anelyn77

I was 4L5 when I dinged 50 thursday last week, Saturday was 5l0 when big zerg fight started at Crauch, was almost 5L3 after those 3 hours of huge fights. Also I only charm humans / animals, using low lvl charm to get low pow spent on charm pulse, higher lvl ones drain a ton and not needed, pet is there for demezz / root break, rarely you send it to rupt / attack.

Also we all use color code in Emerald Knights, green cloak, all pieces dyed black, so it's easy to spot us ^^

/Bnotashamed + Aicha

Mon 24 Jun 2019 7:24 PM by Pirhana7

cere2 wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 8:59 PM
teiloh wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 8:49 PM
Kaseylol wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 8:47 PM
NF population died? How do you figure?

I'm talking about Live. Live highlighted NF, NNF and NNNF's failure. The mass-quitting happened after WoW, yes, but no iteration of NF has ever held significant interest.

In fact it's so bad that we saw 95%+ of DAoC's population drop under NF.

In fact? Good grief man, do some research.

I suppose OF had nothing to do with Uthgard dying off.
Had to be some else!
But NF kills all! I guess population here was increasing daily, since we had OF right?

Uthgard died because the devs wouldn't listen to the QOL things players wanted. people also didn't feel like spending 9 casual or 4 hardcore monsth to get to 50. A lot of people actually kept trying to push through it and play just because they said they liked playing in OF again.

Mon 24 Jun 2019 8:09 PM by cere2

Pirhana7 wrote: ↑
Mon 24 Jun 2019 7:24 PM
cere2 wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 8:59 PM
teiloh wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 8:49 PM
I'm talking about Live. Live highlighted NF, NNF and NNNF's failure. The mass-quitting happened after WoW, yes, but no iteration of NF has ever held significant interest.

In fact it's so bad that we saw 95%+ of DAoC's population drop under NF.

In fact? Good grief man, do some research.

I suppose OF had nothing to do with Uthgard dying off.
Had to be some else!
But NF kills all! I guess population here was increasing daily, since we had OF right?

Uthgard died because the devs wouldn't listen to the QOL things players wanted. people also didn't feel like spending 9 casual or 4 hardcore monsth to get to 50. A lot of people actually kept trying to push through it and play just because they said they liked playing in OF again.

For sure certain people like OF, but what I am saying here is that if OF was why everyone came here to play, you know that classic feel etc?
Why has the population steadily declined?
Reason is because regardless of what you do, the population will decline due to people just either being done with their personal nostalgia, or they get bored and move on.
Neither keeping OF nor implementing NF would kill the server. But the poll does show more that are playing this game now, which typically means those that are not yet bored, dedicated etc voted for NF. So perhaps this will extend the life of the server for those that are left.

And just to add, Uthgard also partially died because nothing changed.
Things change/evolve here, which is a good thing.