Visibility for Groupmembers in Stealth

Is it possible to see groupmembers oneself sneaking ?

i meant to implement that .

It is annoying if you do not see his sneaky colleagues

Sun 5 Aug 2018 2:54 PM by Dragonn

Good idea

Sun 5 Aug 2018 11:24 PM by Falken

Not a big stealther enthusiast myself, but after playing one a few times this would be a much needed addition to create some QoL in stealther life.

Mon 6 Aug 2018 1:00 AM by Geek

Excellent idea. I hope they implement that.

Mon 6 Aug 2018 4:09 AM by akagure

no , dont unleash stealth zerg

Mon 6 Aug 2018 5:43 AM by daocgod

stealthers are made for solo plz don't enable stealth zerging trash

Mon 6 Aug 2018 6:54 AM by l00ri

Please don't.

Mon 6 Aug 2018 6:56 AM by Yarazluck

I beg you don't do that!

Also the RP bonus for groups up to 5 members should be deactivated for assassins/archers (not minstrels of course)
They don't run any risk being found by FGs so clearly they don't deserve a RP boost for killing smaller amounts of enemies

Mon 6 Aug 2018 7:44 AM by sebbo

/macro ground /groundset 0
/macro assist /groundassist XY

Thats all you need as a stealther when grouping.

Mon 6 Aug 2018 7:55 AM by Laadna

sebbo wrote: ↑
Mon 6 Aug 2018 7:44 AM
/macro ground /groundset 0
/macro assist /groundassist XY

Thats all you need as a stealther when grouping.

+1

Use existing tools before asking for new ones. I did that for years on live.

Mon 6 Aug 2018 10:00 AM by Geek

sebbo wrote: ↑
Mon 6 Aug 2018 7:44 AM
/macro ground /groundset 0
/macro assist /groundassist XY

Thats all you need as a stealther when grouping.

What does the XY represent? I never knew of that one. Sheesh ya learn something new every day.

Mon 6 Aug 2018 12:18 PM by rubberduck21

/groundassist <Name>

Mon 6 Aug 2018 1:14 PM by rubaduck

Geek wrote: ↑
Mon 6 Aug 2018 10:00 AM
sebbo wrote: ↑
Mon 6 Aug 2018 7:44 AM
/macro ground /groundset 0
/macro assist /groundassist XY

Thats all you need as a stealther when grouping.

What does the XY represent? I never knew of that one. Sheesh ya learn something new every day.

XY is longitude and latitude. When you type /loc you get a set of coordinates that is your position.

Mon 6 Aug 2018 1:50 PM by sebbo

Geek wrote: ↑
Mon 6 Aug 2018 10:00 AM
sebbo wrote: ↑
Mon 6 Aug 2018 7:44 AM
/macro ground /groundset 0
/macro assist /groundassist XY

Thats all you need as a stealther when grouping.

What does the XY represent? I never knew of that one. Sheesh ya learn something new every day.

Type /groundassist Hobomybestfriend to see the groundtarget that Hobomybestfriend has set, where he is waiting for you.

Mon 6 Aug 2018 3:04 PM by Silbaz

Yarazluck wrote: ↑
Mon 6 Aug 2018 6:56 AM
I beg you don't do that!

Also the RP bonus for groups up to 5 members should be deactivated for assassins/archers (not minstrels of course)
They don't run any risk being found by FGs so clearly they don't deserve a RP boost for killing smaller amounts of enemies

yeahh definetely also take away their stats by 50% .... so op this stealthers nowadays... if you give rp bonus to some classes and exclude others.. that way it wont work out well.

i dont get it why people who dont play stealther have to hate them so much.... if you are grouping why isnt it legit for stealthers to group up with the given tools you have ?

just legit if someone wants to group up even as stealther to increase his chances to keep up longer.

Mon 6 Aug 2018 3:30 PM by heardstheword

The only argument I've seen against it so far is people don't want "stealth zerg trash". If stealthers wanted to zerg, they would zerg, whether they could see each other or not. The map still displays location just fine.

I feel like stealth "zergs" aren't a thing anyways. It wouldn't be sustainable on this server. Stealthers are better as a duo/trio at most to target small man groups. You would never see a FG of stealthers attack a regular FG.

This seems like a nice QoL change, but it's not necessary. I guess it adds the benefit of allowing people to line up multiple Perfs at once and positioning in general, but you don't need to see each other to do that.

Mon 6 Aug 2018 3:52 PM by Silbaz

heardstheword wrote: ↑
Mon 6 Aug 2018 3:30 PM
The only argument I've seen against it so far is people don't want "stealth zerg trash". If stealthers wanted to zerg, they would zerg, whether they could see each other or not. The map still displays location just fine.

I feel like stealth "zergs" aren't a thing anyways. It wouldn't be sustainable on this server. Stealthers are better as a duo/trio at most to target small man groups. You would never see a FG of stealthers attack a regular FG.

This seems like a nice QoL change, but it's not necessary. I guess it adds the benefit of allowing people to line up multiple Perfs at once and positioning in general, but you don't need to see each other to do that.

i have seen a 7 scout 1 minst duo doing just this

3 scouts 3 scouts assisting eachother and taking out the healers main first. other scout is there to interrupt with quickfire. and the minst to rupt / run / mezz was quite nice.

Tue 7 Aug 2018 10:32 AM by Yarazluck

Silbaz wrote: ↑
Mon 6 Aug 2018 3:04 PM
Yarazluck wrote: ↑
Mon 6 Aug 2018 6:56 AM
I beg you don't do that!

Also the RP bonus for groups up to 5 members should be deactivated for assassins/archers (not minstrels of course)
They don't run any risk being found by FGs so clearly they don't deserve a RP boost for killing smaller amounts of enemies

yeahh definetely also take away their stats by 50% .... so op this stealthers nowadays... if you give rp bonus to some classes and exclude others.. that way it wont work out well.

i dont get it why people who dont play stealther have to hate them so much.... if you are grouping why isnt it legit for stealthers to group up with the given tools you have ?

just legit if someone wants to group up even as stealther to increase his chances to keep up longer.

just so you know... I have pretty much only played stealthers in my whole daoc carreer and I'm also planning to play one here...
but there's nothing I hate more than annoying stealth zergs destroying the solo game

RP Bonus for smallmen goes along with a higher risk being found by FGs - what's the risk for 3 scouts and a Minstrel to kill solos? And let's be honest here, 90% of the RPs a stealthgroup farms comes from adding or killing smaller groups.
If they want to play that way it's fine... just don't reward them for being pussies imho

Tue 7 Aug 2018 3:37 PM by Geek

Yarazluck wrote: ↑
Tue 7 Aug 2018 10:32 AM
RP Bonus for smallmen goes along with a higher risk being found by FGs - what's the risk for 3 scouts and a Minstrel to kill solos? And let's be honest here, 90% of the RPs a stealthgroup farms comes from adding or killing smaller groups.
If they want to play that way it's fine... just don't reward them for being pussies imho

I don't understand what you're saying. If I got it wrong, correct me. From what I gather, you're saying if you go out solo in RvR, you only expect to fight 1v1. That's not how this game has worked since I first logged in the summer of 2002. IMO, three scouts and one minstrel taking out a solo is perfectly fine. There's risk by going out in the frontiers anyway whether you're a FG or a soloer. Someone's gonna die, and it might be you. Anyone who is in the frontier at anytime is an enemy to everyone, no matter if you're a solo guy or a zerg. There's nothing pu$$y about anyone ganging up on anyone at anytime. You walked out there, so expect to die if you're solo and not stealthed.

I also use stealthers as main toons, so I get part of what you're saying.

Mon 13 Aug 2018 3:48 PM by Fk_

heardstheword wrote: ↑
Mon 6 Aug 2018 3:30 PM
......

This seems like a nice QoL change, but it's not necessary. I guess it adds the benefit of allowing people to line up multiple Perfs at once and positioning in general, but you don't need to see each other to do that.

Also the archer in group can finally see where to position, when he sees his group member assassin in stealth.

Mon 13 Aug 2018 9:23 PM by Numatic

I'm okay with it. A fg of assasins are still going to have a hell of a time against a well rounded fg. Stealthers have no utility. I like how when assasins or archers ask for group playability people scream no. "You made a stealther, you can only solo" cracks me up. Y'all don't want them in your groups, so let them group. They need to be able to see each other to coordinate efficiently.

Right now, stealther RvR is this

Go to DF and grief
Go to PK and grief
Sit at mile gate and grief
Watch any 2-3+ grp run by. No point, just fodder
Sit and wait. 10 mins, 20 mins, 30 mins. Another stealther pops up, fight. If you die, rinse and repeat. If you live, reposition. Watch more groups run by. Sit and watch. Oh, a fg from your realm comes and fights. Run to fight, get caught in aoe. Exposed. Dead because no heals/buffs.

Assasins were originally meant as a counter for casters and archers in GROUP play RvR. Unfortunately they've been blacklisted as soloers since nothing was ever done to make them more group friendly.

I'm not saying there aren't cons to it. But saying stealthers have no right to group utility is a bit over dramatic.

Tue 14 Aug 2018 6:27 AM by aso

If you do that the nearly non existent visible solo game will finally die cuz of stealthgroups

Tue 14 Aug 2018 8:34 PM by Xenosapien

So its okay to 4v1 xpers if your in a group with speed 6, but not okay if your a stealther....

Like seriously, you people need your brains examined

Tue 14 Aug 2018 9:15 PM by Quik

Xenosapien wrote: ↑
Tue 14 Aug 2018 8:34 PM
So its okay to 4v1 xpers if your in a group with speed 6, but not okay if your a stealther....

Like seriously, you people need your brains examined

I always hear people in /region and is goes 1 of 3 ways...

1) Just got rolled by group of <rlm>

2) Just got rolled by a group of grey gankers with no life!!! They should be banned or lose all RP's!!!!

My personal favorite
3) Just got rolled my some loser stealthier trying to prove he is a man by rolling a group of greys/greens.

I find it amusing that if it isn't a stealthier it is 50/50 if they get mad at the high lvl group killing the xpers...BUT if it is a stealthier that killed them then that stealthier is a loser with no life...

I have no issues with stealthers killing me, or anyone for that matter I get ganked a lot because I lvl a lot in FZ and I know it is going to happen.

People just have a hatred of stealthers in general it seems unles they play one.

Tue 14 Aug 2018 10:27 PM by phixion

I’d love to see this implemented, being able to see stealthed groupmates makes sense.

Wed 15 Aug 2018 12:46 AM by Varano

Yea lets make it harder for stealthers! /sarcasm

Wed 15 Aug 2018 12:16 PM by aso

would be great if the grp members are visible in stealth

Wed 15 Aug 2018 1:03 PM by Bigga

no, i vote against visibility of groupmembers in stealth.... def. not

Fri 17 Aug 2018 11:32 PM by Varano

So every other class is allowed to zerg it up but stealthers shouldn't be able to?
Why?

Sat 18 Aug 2018 12:36 AM by Quik

It's not uncommon for other games to have stealthers see each other, but I can go either way here.

A stealthers group would be able to operate easier if they could see each other, but on the flip side is it really fair for them to see each other if no one else can?

Sat 18 Aug 2018 12:46 AM by Geek

Quik wrote: ↑
Sat 18 Aug 2018 12:36 AM
A stealthers group would be able to operate easier if they could see each other, but on the flip side is it really fair for them to see each other if no one else can?

I was going to say a whole bunch, but then I thought for a second, and was like...yeah, that kinda makes sense. BUT, I still have to side with visibility cause I play as a stealther and group members can see each other so I just want that too. How bout no purple pets for minstrel in exchange for visibility in stealth groups

That's compromising right there dear sir.

Sat 18 Aug 2018 12:48 AM by Quik

Oh I can see it from both sides, but I still feel Minstrel pets need fixing =).

I have no issues with letting stealthier groups see anyone in their own group, and even going farther, I have no issues with stealthers from the same realm seeing each other to kind of work together even if not in the same group.

Sat 18 Aug 2018 1:41 AM by Cadebrennus

On live it was granting visibility to group members that led to regular stealth zergs that continue to plague the server to this day. When I say stealth zergs I'm not talking about 3-4 players, I'm talking about 8-16 regularly and in some cases 20+, no exaggeration.

Examples (watch the death reel in the beginning of the video). The first solid minute is a composite of seeing nothing but red names (almost all stealthers) zerging it up due in no small part on being able to see each other from clip range. After that first minute it's the usual DAOC vid of people killing the shit out of other people.

https://youtu.be/jTga15Be3fo

Player is a Ranger (yours truly) with MOS6 or so popping the stealth zerg. The reason I did it? The zergs were literally disrupting normal play for low level and low RR soloers trying to quest in the frontier.

Because of my experience seeing and fighting these zergs firsthand and seeing how easy it is to play with "see groupmates" turned on, as a long time stealther I would vote emphatically NO to seeing your groupmates or realmmates. If a group wants to stealth zerg it up then they need to get good at communication and not just have the keys to the kingdom handed to them.

Drunken Ranger rant over. Thanks for listening, now have a pint.

Sat 18 Aug 2018 1:43 AM by Quik

And this is the other side of the coin I was referring to. This could easily be used to take things a little far.

Sat 18 Aug 2018 7:30 AM by faliv

If you make 10% less dmg vs. enemies for each additional stealth class in your group, i would support this idea.

Thu 23 Aug 2018 2:58 PM by Leith

Just my 2cents: I would love to see stealthed teammates, but if possible just do it for duos/trios or maybe for half a group but not any more. I don't want to see each and every stealther on my realm. You will get flamed alot and you can not "add" on "accident" anymore.

Fri 24 Aug 2018 2:22 PM by jkpix

anyone in favour of this clearly didnt play on live within the last ~3 years or is stealth zerg trash themselves.

Fri 24 Aug 2018 4:02 PM by heardstheword

jkpix wrote: ↑
Fri 24 Aug 2018 2:22 PM
anyone in favour of this clearly didnt play on live within the last ~3 years or is stealth zerg trash themselves.

This is such a silly argument. How dare people take advantage of grouping, a critical aspect of this game. What garbage players to group up with others. /s

You can still group whether you see each other or not. It hasn't stopped the 5+ member stealther groups that I've seen on the server already.

Fri 24 Aug 2018 4:45 PM by jkpix

heardstheword wrote: ↑
Fri 24 Aug 2018 4:02 PM
jkpix wrote: ↑
Fri 24 Aug 2018 2:22 PM
anyone in favour of this clearly didnt play on live within the last ~3 years or is stealth zerg trash themselves.

This is such a silly argument. How dare people take advantage of grouping, a critical aspect of this game. What garbage players to group up with others. /s

You can still group whether you see each other or not. It hasn't stopped the 5+ member stealther groups that I've seen on the server already.

so you obviously do/did not play live and do not know about the dimensions and impact of visible stealth group members. why even bother trying to start an argument with me? if you think its miniscule then you simply do not know how pathetic it is on live. stealth zergs are the fcking plague, you may ask anyone who plays live that is NOT stealth zerging and you will get the exact same reactions.
the fact that you can see stealthed group members has completely changed the dynamic of these groups on live.

Fri 24 Aug 2018 5:38 PM by heardstheword

I just fail to see how being able to see each other will make stealth zerging rampant.

It's still possible right this very moment; it's just a minor inconvenience. I can see everyone on my map just fine.

With artifacts/CL's/buffbots, stealthers are a different beast than they are here. Similar, but they don't have nearly the amount of utility that you gain from those things mentioned.

Fri 24 Aug 2018 7:20 PM by opossum12

In all honesty, anything that makes stealthers easier to move and group together is a risk to make it how Ywain/live is right now, an extremely toxic experience that is destroying the smallman community.

Stealth zergs are a cancer and shouldn't be allowed to exist.

Fri 24 Aug 2018 7:32 PM by Niix

heardstheword wrote: ↑
Fri 24 Aug 2018 5:38 PM
I just fail to see how being able to see each other will make stealth zerging rampant.

It's still possible right this very moment; it's just a minor inconvenience. I can see everyone on my map just fine.

With artifacts/CL's/buffbots, stealthers are a different beast than they are here. Similar, but they don't have nearly the amount of utility that you gain from those things mentioned.

Wait, you can’t see how stealth groups being able to see each other won’t increase their efficiency in ganking solos/duos? It would definitely allow them to position better without efficient and continued Communication which I’m sure people that need to gang solos in groups of 6+ stealth’s aren’t good at so yeah it would help them.

I just don’t see the need for this feature, y’all stealthers anyway you should expect to follow the rules of stealth... non stealthers can’t see group members through walls....

Fri 24 Aug 2018 7:54 PM by phixion

Some really stupid arguments in here.

Fri 24 Aug 2018 8:04 PM by heardstheword

Niix wrote: ↑
Fri 24 Aug 2018 7:32 PM
heardstheword wrote: ↑
Fri 24 Aug 2018 5:38 PM
I just fail to see how being able to see each other will make stealth zerging rampant.

It's still possible right this very moment; it's just a minor inconvenience. I can see everyone on my map just fine.

With artifacts/CL's/buffbots, stealthers are a different beast than they are here. Similar, but they don't have nearly the amount of utility that you gain from those things mentioned.

Wait, you can’t see how stealth groups being able to see each other won’t increase their efficiency in ganking solos/duos? It would definitely allow them to position better without efficient and continued Communication which I’m sure people that need to gang solos in groups of 6+ stealth’s aren’t good at so yeah it would help them.

I just don’t see the need for this feature, y’all stealthers anyway you should expect to follow the rules of stealth... non stealthers can’t see group members through walls....

No, I see how it is nice. I'm saying I don't see how that's the limiting factor in all of this. Positioning is one thing, but effective communication can completely negate not being able to see each other.

I don't believe there are zero stealth zergs as of right now JUST because we cannot see each other. Low population, testing, beta, any number of reasons are preventing stealth zergs from being a functional group set up as of right now.

It's like golfing with cheap clubs. I'd rather have the expensive ones, but it's not necessary to play the game. Seeing each other is not some mythical lynchpin that will open the stealthing flood gates.

Fri 24 Aug 2018 8:43 PM by phixion

Do I think stealthers should be able to see stealthers who they are grouped with? Yes.
Do I think gameplay will be more fun if stealthers can see other stealthers in their group? Yes.
Do I think stealthers will play any differently with or without it? No.

I play this server to have fun, don't know 'bout the rest of ya...

Tue 28 Aug 2018 10:18 AM by Germanknight

Yes only groupmembers should see each other in 2000 Range ? or the range can be limited to 1500 but not less i will suggest.
IF there are 8 groupmembers they can attack a FG in Emain for example and they will have no Support in there Group only in albion with a Minstrel or Minstrels they can be have a Chance vs. a FG . But they have no buff and Heal Support.
That brings more fun into the rvr because there can be a FG Stealther waiting for a Normal FG to kill them.

Tue 28 Aug 2018 10:37 AM by Druth

Seems counterintuitive to me, that group members can see someone, when the enemy can't.
Either you stealth or not.

Are we gonna remove "target is not visibel" for group members casting on each other?

Use /groundassist if you want to find each other or call out where you are, it's not hard just harder.

I play a stealther, and have done 2-3 man stealth groups. And it can be fun, for the stealthers, and I return to solo/duo quickly.
But forget about being rolled by a fg GG, nothing drains people's enjoyment of playing than 8 stealthers suddenly exploding your body with arrows/perfs.

And on alb it will be even worse, the stealth group can suddenly escape any situation and restealth using sos.