Why only 2 absolute options in the vote?

I dont think changing or remaking the vote now makes any sense, so this isnt a suggestion, but i am still interested how you decided on the current vote?

I understand that dilluting the vote too much wouldn't help but personally would have included a third option that is indifferent. I believe not voting has a different message/Value than voting that you like both Maps. I feel like i want to make an absolute decision now, despite not being completely against either option. Should my vote in the end count as much as someones who has very hard feelings?

I don't think you rushed the vote in its current Version so what made you decided against a neutral option?

Mon 17 Jun 2019 9:58 PM by

gruenesschaf

The vote asks which you prefer, even if you're fine with either you'll likely prefer one over the other for some reason. A neutral vote also would not really be any different from not voting.

Mon 17 Jun 2019 10:08 PM by Chaskha

Yes your vote has the same value as someone with very hard feelings (it will give balance to the opiniated extremists).
Also, it forces you to pick a choice, I like both maps too (and ultimately I believe the maps are not what define DAoC) yet I had to choose and it forced me to evaluate.

If you have a true 50:50 opinion, then not casting a vote has the same effect than voting Indifferent in the end.

Tue 18 Jun 2019 6:40 AM by Sepplord

thanks for the prompt reply and explanation

i had also missed the possibility to comment, which is a great option imo

Tue 18 Jun 2019 11:18 AM by Nunki

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 9:58 PM
The vote asks which you prefer, even if you're fine with either you'll likely prefer one over the other for some reason. A neutral vote also would not really be any different from not voting.

I voted for OF, because NF would be not worth it in the current state. Population is too low for it and travel times are too long.

NF with some custom changes would be much better than OF. eg
- Reduced travel time
- Tower Tasks or other Tasks that motivate solo and small man players to move to a certain place
- 1 Keep Task per Realm. In case of 2 zergs, while 1 zerg is underpopulated and has no chance, the outnumbered zerg is excluded from the Raid Task. 3 Raid Tasks would offer the option to go for different targets, unfortunately without a BG the pop would split up to 3 different places.

In any case there needs to be a first LOS Check (pets casting through walls and hills without LOS) and a second LOS Check (dmg by 25+ shrooms after passing a window shouldn't be a thing) for casting pets. Shroom limit per area would make sense too but probably only needed if you don't manage to include both LOS checks.

Tue 18 Jun 2019 12:39 PM by Bumbles

Nunki wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Jun 2019 11:18 AM
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 9:58 PM
The vote asks which you prefer, even if you're fine with either you'll likely prefer one over the other for some reason. A neutral vote also would not really be any different from not voting.

I voted for OF, because NF would be not worth it in the current state. Population is too low for it and travel times are too long.

NF with some custom changes would be much better than OF. eg
- Reduced travel time
- Tower Tasks or other Tasks that motivate solo and small man players to move to a certain place
- 1 Keep Task per Realm. In case of 2 zergs, while 1 zerg is underpopulated and has no chance, the outnumbered zerg is excluded from the Raid Task. 3 Raid Tasks would offer the option to go for different targets, unfortunately without a BG the pop would split up to 3 different places.

In any case there needs to be a first LOS Check (pets casting through walls and hills without LOS) and a second LOS Check (dmg by 25+ shrooms after passing a window shouldn't be a thing) for casting pets. Shroom limit per area would make sense too but probably only needed if you don't manage to include both LOS checks.

Explain to me how travel times in OF are so short in comparison..?

Tue 18 Jun 2019 12:59 PM by Shamissa

Lol yeah explain that to us. We need an explanation because your post doesn’t make sense at all.

Tue 18 Jun 2019 1:02 PM by kratoxin

To be honest, if the votes look crazy split it wont be worth it to do any kind of change....would just cause chaos etc.

Tue 18 Jun 2019 1:27 PM by Ashenspire

Splitting any kind of option is detrimental to the health of the server.

If you have 2 weeks of, 2 weeks nf, you'll have half the pop for 2 weeks, and the other half for 2 weeks, and many won't come back after awhile.

If you have OF with a new by modified to be like NF, you're splitting the population, so both will be underpopulated.

If you only have one absolutely option, you will lose some people, but the overall health of the server will be better, as you're not splitting players amongst game modes, and not as many people will quit as you'd believe on these forums, because it's still Classic DAoC, it's not live, and it's still a version of the game they loved with changes the devs feel are in the best interest of the server.

Tue 18 Jun 2019 1:49 PM by Gorgoroth

Well, if its either or the other, it makes sense to ask in absolutes. I would not mind a rotation of bi weekly intervals for example. NF is great, OF too.

Tue 18 Jun 2019 1:55 PM by Stoertebecker

Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Jun 2019 1:27 PM
Splitting any kind of option is detrimental to the health of the server.

If you have 2 weeks of, 2 weeks nf, you'll have half the pop for 2 weeks, and the other half for 2 weeks, and many won't come back after awhile.

If you have OF with a new by modified to be like NF, you're splitting the population, so both will be underpopulated.

If you only have one absolutely option, you will lose some people, but the overall health of the server will be better, as you're not splitting players amongst game modes, and not as many people will quit as you'd believe on these forums, because it's still Classic DAoC, it's not live, and it's still a version of the game they loved with changes the devs feel are in the best interest of the server.

What are you talking about splitting? Are you a comedian or what?

I´ve never heared or read that ppl that prefer NF would quit playing if the staff decides (based on the poll) to stick with OF.
It`s the * Keep OF or we`ll quit* faction that cries like mad.

Tue 18 Jun 2019 2:14 PM by Saroi

Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Jun 2019 1:55 PM
Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Jun 2019 1:27 PM
Splitting any kind of option is detrimental to the health of the server.

If you have 2 weeks of, 2 weeks nf, you'll have half the pop for 2 weeks, and the other half for 2 weeks, and many won't come back after awhile.

If you have OF with a new by modified to be like NF, you're splitting the population, so both will be underpopulated.

If you only have one absolutely option, you will lose some people, but the overall health of the server will be better, as you're not splitting players amongst game modes, and not as many people will quit as you'd believe on these forums, because it's still Classic DAoC, it's not live, and it's still a version of the game they loved with changes the devs feel are in the best interest of the server.

What are you talking about splitting? Are you a comedian or what?

I´ve never heared or read that ppl that prefer NF would quit playing if the staff decides (based on the poll) to stick with OF.
It`s the * Keep OF or we`ll quit* faction that cries like mad.

And what about the "I hate OF that is why I left the game, please change it to NF so I will be willing to come back faction""? I mean they already left once because they did not like OF and are then basically crying too how much OF sucks. They came back to test NF and are willing to leave again if OF stays. So that is not saying I quit if Phoenix sticks with OF?

Tue 18 Jun 2019 2:17 PM by labova

It is wise to have two options now, and see how the playerbase divides. I doubt we will have a clearcut result ie, 60%+ for one option. That means they will have to compromise in my opinion.

Tue 18 Jun 2019 2:23 PM by relvinian

labova wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Jun 2019 2:17 PM
It is wise to have two options now, and see how the playerbase divides. I doubt we will have a clearcut result ie, 60%+ for one option. That means they will have to compromise in my opinion.

If it is clear cut, then server should change. If its within 10%, server should remain OF

Tue 18 Jun 2019 2:24 PM by cuuchulain79

Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Jun 2019 1:55 PM
...It`s the * Keep OF or we`ll quit* faction that cries like mad.

Why is that hard to believe? The server puts out an open beta of "Classic with QoL"....even had Old RAs for all but the last few weeks of that beta. Practically every thing people asked Uthgard for QoL wise, Phoenix puts into the game...and draws a lot of the folks interested in that "classic" experience.

Every single long standing freeshard in the online RPG scene has had a clear vision & built a core playerbase on that vision...I'm worried this young ambitious freeshard is about to learn that lesson the hard way.

This is a massive over-reaction to a handful of people posting about NF on the forum.

Tue 18 Jun 2019 2:27 PM by Anelyn77

I would totally be up for OF and NF rotations if it's possible. I want to have my fun but without ruining someone's else day. Think it would be the most pleasing option of the pack.

I am not quitting if we keep OF or switch to NF, I'll play whatever with my (soon close to 100+) friends whatever, because we have fun playing together and that's why we're here in the first place. Even among us, is a divided opinion between NF and OF but not the extreme point so many forum posters are taking it, like quitting the game or proclaiming armaggedon and death of server hahahaha, they are just bitter and I get that, but hey you can't have your cake and eat it too in life in most cases, you need to learn to make do with what you have, and enjoy the present buddies <3 you all.

/Bnotashamed + Aicha = LOVE!

Tue 18 Jun 2019 2:51 PM by labova

relvinian wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Jun 2019 2:23 PM
labova wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Jun 2019 2:17 PM
It is wise to have two options now, and see how the playerbase divides. I doubt we will have a clearcut result ie, 60%+ for one option. That means they will have to compromise in my opinion.

If it is clear cut, then server should change. If its within 10%, server should remain OF

Maybe, I still think alternating NF and OF might be an option. In any case, I hope we don't see a large part of the playerbase alienated. We need the numbers for a fun and vital server.

Tue 18 Jun 2019 2:55 PM by cere2

Saroi wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Jun 2019 2:14 PM
Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Jun 2019 1:55 PM
Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Jun 2019 1:27 PM
Splitting any kind of option is detrimental to the health of the server.

If you have 2 weeks of, 2 weeks nf, you'll have half the pop for 2 weeks, and the other half for 2 weeks, and many won't come back after awhile.

If you have OF with a new by modified to be like NF, you're splitting the population, so both will be underpopulated.

If you only have one absolutely option, you will lose some people, but the overall health of the server will be better, as you're not splitting players amongst game modes, and not as many people will quit as you'd believe on these forums, because it's still Classic DAoC, it's not live, and it's still a version of the game they loved with changes the devs feel are in the best interest of the server.

What are you talking about splitting? Are you a comedian or what?

I´ve never heared or read that ppl that prefer NF would quit playing if the staff decides (based on the poll) to stick with OF.
It`s the * Keep OF or we`ll quit* faction that cries like mad.

And what about the "I hate OF that is why I left the game, please change it to NF so I will be willing to come back faction""? I mean they already left once because they did not like OF and are then basically crying too how much OF sucks. They came back to test NF and are willing to leave again if OF stays. So that is not saying I quit if Phoenix sticks with OF?

He is referring to me as I am the only one that I have seen that has said that so far, and I think I have read 95% of the posts.
So it's good that I am a faction of players ;P

And yes, I quit because I did not care for OF after 2 months trying it out.
These others are stating they will quit after not even trying NF, or only for a day etc.
And yes, if they remain with OF I won't be playing either.
My hopes and dreams will then wait with live releasing F2P in....6 more years

Tue 18 Jun 2019 2:56 PM by cuuchulain79

relvinian wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Jun 2019 2:23 PM
If it is clear cut, then server should change. If its within 10%, server should remain OF

The staff should have had the wisdom to foresee that of course the split will be too far apart for a clear winner.

Realistically, the choice between OF and NF should have been made when the server was just an idea. At the latest, it should have been thoroughly tested and decided on in beta. This is the absolute groundwork for RvR on the server...

It just seems bonkers, that 6 months into "live," Phoenix is making its remaining player-base vote on what the foundation of the server should be.

Tue 18 Jun 2019 3:00 PM by Saroi

cere2 wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Jun 2019 2:55 PM
Saroi wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Jun 2019 2:14 PM
Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Jun 2019 1:55 PM
What are you talking about splitting? Are you a comedian or what?

I´ve never heared or read that ppl that prefer NF would quit playing if the staff decides (based on the poll) to stick with OF.
It`s the * Keep OF or we`ll quit* faction that cries like mad.

And what about the "I hate OF that is why I left the game, please change it to NF so I will be willing to come back faction""? I mean they already left once because they did not like OF and are then basically crying too how much OF sucks. They came back to test NF and are willing to leave again if OF stays. So that is not saying I quit if Phoenix sticks with OF?

He is referring to me as I am the only one that I have seen that has said that so far, and I think I have read 95% of the posts.
So it's good that I am a faction of players ;P

And yes, I quit because I did not care for OF after 2 months trying it out.
These others are stating they will quit after not even trying NF, or only for a day etc.
And yes, if they remain with OF I won't be playing either.
My hopes and dreams will then wait with live releasing F2P in....6 more years

No I am not referring just to you. As I have been through the NF thread there were also others that said similar things about NF. And note it is not all about the forum too, since not everyone is on here. I have met some people in game too that came back and tested NF and after the week are now gone too. Also advice chat (atleast on Albion is always very active and spammable about pro NF or pro OF and I will quit here, I will quit there.

Tue 18 Jun 2019 3:50 PM by Stoertebecker

Saroi wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Jun 2019 2:14 PM
Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Jun 2019 1:55 PM
Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Jun 2019 1:27 PM
Splitting any kind of option is detrimental to the health of the server.

If you have 2 weeks of, 2 weeks nf, you'll have half the pop for 2 weeks, and the other half for 2 weeks, and many won't come back after awhile.

If you have OF with a new by modified to be like NF, you're splitting the population, so both will be underpopulated.

If you only have one absolutely option, you will lose some people, but the overall health of the server will be better, as you're not splitting players amongst game modes, and not as many people will quit as you'd believe on these forums, because it's still Classic DAoC, it's not live, and it's still a version of the game they loved with changes the devs feel are in the best interest of the server.

What are you talking about splitting? Are you a comedian or what?

I´ve never heared or read that ppl that prefer NF would quit playing if the staff decides (based on the poll) to stick with OF.
It`s the * Keep OF or we`ll quit* faction that cries like mad.

And what about the "I hate OF that is why I left the game, please change it to NF so I will be willing to come back faction""? I mean they already left once because they did not like OF and are then basically crying too how much OF sucks. They came back to test NF and are willing to leave again if OF stays. So that is not saying I quit if Phoenix sticks with OF?

Let me have a look.. there`s a DAoC Freeshard going to open, with an extended Beta and the setting for launch is very clear. Patchlevel 1.65 with some QoL and OF.
I would think that ppl that don`t like OF wouldn`t even start playing on a freeshard with OF.
In your example they ignored those infos, started playing and after a while they start complaining * Oh no, go NF or i quit/never come back*.

Remembers me a bit of my youth as 2 other kids and their fathers were trying to change a soccer team into a rugby team.

Tue 18 Jun 2019 4:07 PM by Stoertebecker

cere2 wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Jun 2019 2:55 PM
Saroi wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Jun 2019 2:14 PM
Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Jun 2019 1:55 PM
What are you talking about splitting? Are you a comedian or what?

I´ve never heared or read that ppl that prefer NF would quit playing if the staff decides (based on the poll) to stick with OF.
It`s the * Keep OF or we`ll quit* faction that cries like mad.

And what about the "I hate OF that is why I left the game, please change it to NF so I will be willing to come back faction""? I mean they already left once because they did not like OF and are then basically crying too how much OF sucks. They came back to test NF and are willing to leave again if OF stays. So that is not saying I quit if Phoenix sticks with OF?

He is referring to me as I am the only one that I have seen that has said that so far, and I think I have read 95% of the posts.
So it's good that I am a faction of players ;P

And yes, I quit because I did not care for OF after 2 months trying it out.
These others are stating they will quit after not even trying NF, or only for a day etc.
And yes, if they remain with OF I won't be playing either.
My hopes and dreams will then wait with live releasing F2P in....6 more years

There`s a lil difference, you have/had no problems playing on live, that`s where i know you from. Same realm, same class , but other playstyle

You should come down from your strictly (or mostly) solo thing, it can be fun, even with OF

Tue 18 Jun 2019 4:52 PM by Ashenspire

Whole lot of stupidity in response to what I said.

If you have more than 1 option, both options will be underpopulated.

If you only have 1 option, you'll lose the hardcore naysayers of the other one, but will retain a far higher population than if you try to cater to everyone.

Many games have died because they offered too much choice and gave players too many options in terms of game modes rather than focusing on just the one and doing it really well.

75% of all population doing one thing is better than 50% of all for 2 weeks and the other 50% for the other 2 weeks. That's all that matters.

Tue 18 Jun 2019 6:17 PM by cere2

Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Jun 2019 4:07 PM
cere2 wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Jun 2019 2:55 PM
Saroi wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Jun 2019 2:14 PM
And what about the "I hate OF that is why I left the game, please change it to NF so I will be willing to come back faction""? I mean they already left once because they did not like OF and are then basically crying too how much OF sucks. They came back to test NF and are willing to leave again if OF stays. So that is not saying I quit if Phoenix sticks with OF?

He is referring to me as I am the only one that I have seen that has said that so far, and I think I have read 95% of the posts.
So it's good that I am a faction of players ;P

And yes, I quit because I did not care for OF after 2 months trying it out.
These others are stating they will quit after not even trying NF, or only for a day etc.
And yes, if they remain with OF I won't be playing either.
My hopes and dreams will then wait with live releasing F2P in....6 more years

There`s a lil difference, you have/had no problems playing on live, that`s where i know you from. Same realm, same class , but other playstyle

You should come down from your strictly (or mostly) solo thing, it can be fun, even with OF

On live yeah my ranger was main, but I had rr10's+ in mid and alb as well. The thing for me is that yeah I solo, I also add, after 10+ years on live, everyone added everything so that's just the way it was. Guess I just brought that same mentality here. And honestly I don't see this place any different.
On live I had abilities to skidaddle if I got jumped by 2 or 3 etc. Phoenix its just "sumbeech, I'm dead" when a 3 man or FG find ya.
If I had some escape tools and could get away from 3 SB's or 3 Scouts OF might be better for my playstyle. But this is just one reason.

I am a family guy, with limited time. When I do get time, having to run from bolg or somewhere in Brief....if the port isn't broken....takes 10 minutes in stealth. Then when I die, I must repeat, because Albland and Midland both dead areas.
That's mainly the reason I bailed. I just don't enjoy having action in just one place at all times, and the time it takes to get to said action. And nothing "creates" action there.
There is always action in Emain I know, but with NF action is created. And it could be anywhere on the maps.

Last but not least, the graphics of OF are craptastic. NF are nothing to brag about...but they are better.

Tue 18 Jun 2019 9:02 PM by Stoertebecker

cere2 wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Jun 2019 6:17 PM
Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Jun 2019 4:07 PM
cere2 wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Jun 2019 2:55 PM
He is referring to me as I am the only one that I have seen that has said that so far, and I think I have read 95% of the posts.
So it's good that I am a faction of players ;P

And yes, I quit because I did not care for OF after 2 months trying it out.
These others are stating they will quit after not even trying NF, or only for a day etc.
And yes, if they remain with OF I won't be playing either.
My hopes and dreams will then wait with live releasing F2P in....6 more years

There`s a lil difference, you have/had no problems playing on live, that`s where i know you from. Same realm, same class , but other playstyle

You should come down from your strictly (or mostly) solo thing, it can be fun, even with OF
There is always action in Emain I know, but with NF action is created. And it could be anywhere on the maps.

That is something that a lot of players, even within my guild/ally, don`t understand.
With NF they have the ability to *create* action, if they run around looking for action, or if they wait that the action comes to them it`s getting boring soon.