Why is Ranger Archery Damage Restricted beyond level 35 Archery ?

Many have tested the damage a ranger does with their bow from levels 35------> 50 archery. Their testing shows that specing the last 15 levels in archery yields very little incremental bow damage. VERY LITTLE.

Some questions.
-is it intended that rangers do modest incremental bow damage from level 35 archery to level 50 archery ?
-Are the testers correct in their assessment of very minimal bow damage above 35 archery ?
-Are rangers performing as Phoenix developers intend them to perform ?
-If there is minimal incremental bow damage from level 35-50 archery for a ranger,please share the rationale for that decision.
Thank you.

Thu 13 Jun 2019 8:22 PM by teiloh

http://talsyra.tripod.com/daocmechanics/archery_bow_mechanics.html

Should be giving .5% damage per point, for 7.5% damage total.

Thu 13 Jun 2019 8:50 PM by Shadanwolf

So..you are saying only some mages are designed to kill from range......and not archers ? As a player who has played DAOC for well over a decade,,accepting that premise would be not only be disappointing,but a reason for me to to most likely never play an archer in this PHOENIX version of DAOC. Historically..... archers were never expected to finish conflicts in melee. Bows were not designed to wound their target. So this is a DAOC developer construct of how an "archer" must act in PHOENIX DAOC game conflict ?

Thu 13 Jun 2019 10:27 PM by stinsfire

Because mythic did a really bad job with old archery and had no clue what they were doing. So they picked a damage formula that makes speccing above 35 borderline pointless. On top of that they also forgot to add any utility to the archery line that is worth spending points beyond rapid fire 1. Instead of fixing it they just made a completely new system. If you look at classic daoc objectively there is a lot of nonsensical stuff and bad design but they really rushed the game in like 18 months or something which is a ridicolous time for an MMORPG.

Thu 13 Jun 2019 11:22 PM by Cadebrennus

stinsfire wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Jun 2019 10:27 PM
Because mythic did a really bad job with old archery and had no clue what they were doing. So they picked a damage formula that makes speccing above 35 borderline pointless. On top of that they also forgot to add any utility to the archery line that is worth spending points beyond rapid fire 1. Instead of fixing it they just made a completely new system. If you look at classic daoc objectively there is a lot of nonsensical stuff and bad design but they really rushed the game in like 18 months or something which is a ridicolous time for an MMORPG.

The completely new system came about because the new programmers couldn't tell how in the hell the old Archery code worked. That's why new Archery is a flat distance on live in a point originating from the Archer and no longer takes height advantage/disadvantage to target as a factor in Archery range.

While there are some pluses to new Archery, it's basically defined by the new coders' incompetence.

Thu 13 Jun 2019 11:41 PM by gotwqqd

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Jun 2019 11:22 PM
stinsfire wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Jun 2019 10:27 PM
Because mythic did a really bad job with old archery and had no clue what they were doing. So they picked a damage formula that makes speccing above 35 borderline pointless. On top of that they also forgot to add any utility to the archery line that is worth spending points beyond rapid fire 1. Instead of fixing it they just made a completely new system. If you look at classic daoc objectively there is a lot of nonsensical stuff and bad design but they really rushed the game in like 18 months or something which is a ridicolous time for an MMORPG.

The completely new system came about because the new programmers couldn't tell how in the hell the old Archery code worked. That's why new Archery is a flat distance on live in a point originating from the Archer and no longer takes height advantage/disadvantage to target as a factor in Archery range.

While there are some pluses to new Archery, it's basically defined by the new coders' incompetence.

New archery is complete garbage.
Caster that throws wands

Fri 14 Jun 2019 12:14 AM by cere2

I actually prefer new archery system. Much more tactics involved. Root shot, aoe poison shot, power shot(unblockable), point blank, and switching elemental shots with standard shots etc.
Old system is basically crit shot, pray it goes through switch to rapid fire and wait to get rupted. Crit shot blocked more than it lands, nothing pierces self bubble...bah

Fri 14 Jun 2019 1:47 AM by AngelRose

New archery is more complex. Which makes it much more fun.

Fri 14 Jun 2019 2:10 AM by Dacht

Never liked the new archery model. Felt like a lousy caster.

I've always loved the feel of the old archery system, but I do agree that there are some issues with how it scales and interacts with other players.

I would love to see the current mechanic tweaked, but not at the expense of losing that feel. I believe there are ways to increase the viability of archers speccing for archery without overpowering the classes.

What should not be the goal is to make archers monsters in both arenas. Instead, it should simply be a set of choices based on spec: viability in melee at the expense of ranged, viability at range at the expense of melee, or versatility in both at the cost of overall power.

Fri 14 Jun 2019 3:48 AM by Snakejuice

I've love too see the new Archery system go live on phoenix....

Sat 15 Jun 2019 3:11 PM by Horus

How is the scaling of other dmg as you get above 35? I suspect it is close to the same as archery...just you get new styles with higher growth rates and better spells.

This is why archery seems weak. I suspect you would see the same low dmg increase between 35 and 50 for an unstyled swing attack....just no one melees unstyled...

I think the only way around it would be either create some kind of "style" attack you get for archery at diff levels...or it was once mentioned that essentially the arrows are considered the "styles" so using the best arrows gives you the best "style" bonus. Maybe implement better arrows that are only usable at certain levels above 35...

Sat 15 Jun 2019 6:41 PM by Shadanwolf

I took my 49 Ranger out to the frontier yesterday to see what he could do(I had stopped playing for a few weeks). I have a decent bow with dex over 300. The results approximated a mosquito bite to any armored non cloth wearers. Stunningly poor. The only way I would think this was a serious class would be if I was in a stealth GROUP. Solo...............(decides not to express more negativity by not commenting further).

Sat 15 Jun 2019 8:00 PM by Loki

Shadanwolf wrote: ↑
Sat 15 Jun 2019 6:41 PM
I took my 49 Ranger out to the frontier yesterday to see what he could do(I had stopped playing for a few weeks). I have a decent bow with dex over 300. The results approximated a mosquito bite to any armored non cloth wearers. Stunningly poor. The only way I would think this was a serious class would be if I was in a stealth GROUP. Solo...............(decides not to express more negativity by not commenting further).

Are you aware of armor vulnerabilities ? Have you swapped to the appropriate type of arrows ? I get rangers and scouts hitting my thane's chains for 400+ quite frequently...

Sat 15 Jun 2019 8:13 PM by Leandrys

Shadanwolf wrote: ↑
Sat 15 Jun 2019 6:41 PM
I took my 49 Ranger out to the frontier yesterday to see what he could do(I had stopped playing for a few weeks). I have a decent bow with dex over 300. The results approximated a mosquito bite to any armored non cloth wearers. Stunningly poor. The only way I would think this was a serious class would be if I was in a stealth GROUP. Solo...............(decides not to express more negativity by not commenting further).

Bow damages arn't fine but let's be honnest, a Berzerker for example isn't able to come at melee range if he doesn't have heal pot/legion UP and even so, if you succeed with crits, he won't be able to, then comes the "IP up or not ?" question and it's the same thing for a lot of classes, except you still can disengage while some others can't, you deal damages with bow, there just are too many tools for anyone to avoid dieing from bow in 75% of cases when your target is buffed and temp'ed.

Something is wrong in your stuff, "dex over 300" doesn't allow to pretend you know optimized bow's damages, i have one 41 ranger and my dext allready peaks at 324, rangers have no problem getting really close from 400 dext and FA+mastery of archery will help very decently with DPS.

Your opponent's tools are what makes them difficult to kill, shooting at a war with ABS charge up and galla's torso procing is a disaster, tanks are a challenge for archers and that is natural.

I'd say the real problem lies in killing clothies, because honnestly if the guy knows its stuff, this is suicide for you, i this case DPS isn't the problem, most of times it's the arsenal everybody has here, combined with caster's skills, it makes them much too strong for archers in 1vs1.

Sat 15 Jun 2019 8:58 PM by Shadanwolf

Leandrys wrote: ↑
Sat 15 Jun 2019 8:13 PM
Shadanwolf wrote: ↑
Sat 15 Jun 2019 6:41 PM
I took my 49 Ranger out to the frontier yesterday to see what he could do(I had stopped playing for a few weeks). I have a decent bow with dex over 300. The results approximated a mosquito bite to any armored non cloth wearers. Stunningly poor. The only way I would think this was a serious class would be if I was in a stealth GROUP. Solo...............(decides not to express more negativity by not commenting further).

Bow damages arn't fine but let's be honnest, a Berzerker for example isn't able to come at melee range if he doesn't have heal pot/legion UP and even so, if you succeed with crits, he won't be able to, then comes the "IP up or not ?" question and it's the same thing for a lot of classes, except you still can disengage while some others can't, you deal damages with bow, there just are too many tools for anyone to avoid dieing from bow in 75% of cases when your target is buffed and temp'ed.

Something is wrong in your stuff, "dex over 300" doesn't allow to pretend you know optimized bow's damages, i have one 41 ranger and my dext allready peaks at 324, rangers have no problem getting really close from 400 dext and FA+mastery of archery will help very decently with DPS.

Your opponent's tools are what makes them difficult to kill, shooting at a war with ABS charge up and galla's torso procing is a disaster, tanks are a challenge for archers and that is natural.

I'd say the real problem lies in killing clothies, because honnestly if the guy knows its stuff, this is suicide for you, i this case DPS isn't the problem, on more time it's the arsenal everybody has here, combined with caster's skills, it makes them much too strong for archers in 1vs1.

Thank you for your thoughts. i appreciate it.

Sun 16 Jun 2019 1:12 PM by Siouxsie

Leandrys wrote: ↑
Sat 15 Jun 2019 8:13 PM
Shadanwolf wrote: ↑
Sat 15 Jun 2019 6:41 PM
I took my 49 Ranger out to the frontier yesterday to see what he could do(I had stopped playing for a few weeks). I have a decent bow with dex over 300. The results approximated a mosquito bite to any armored non cloth wearers. Stunningly poor. The only way I would think this was a serious class would be if I was in a stealth GROUP. Solo...............(decides not to express more negativity by not commenting further).

Bow damages arn't fine but let's be honnest, a Berzerker for example isn't able to come at melee range if he doesn't have heal pot/legion UP and even so, if you succeed with crits, he won't be able to, then comes the "IP up or not ?" question and it's the same thing for a lot of classes, except you still can disengage while some others can't, you deal damages with bow, there just are too many tools for anyone to avoid dieing from bow in 75% of cases when your target is buffed and temp'ed.

Something is wrong in your stuff, "dex over 300" doesn't allow to pretend you know optimized bow's damages, i have one 41 ranger and my dext allready peaks at 324, rangers have no problem getting really close from 400 dext and FA+mastery of archery will help very decently with DPS.

Your opponent's tools are what makes them difficult to kill, shooting at a war with ABS charge up and galla's torso procing is a disaster, tanks are a challenge for archers and that is natural.

I'd say the real problem lies in killing clothies, because honnestly if the guy knows its stuff, this is suicide for you, i this case DPS isn't the problem, most of times it's the arsenal everybody has here, combined with caster's skills, it makes them much too strong for archers in 1vs1.

Completely agree with this. Archers were never meant to kill tanks one on one, they were meant to kill cloth-wearing casters. As an archer, I should be able to 2-shot a caster. Instead, it takes something like 5 or 6 shots. By that time, they've MOC'd or sent the pet after you (which has closed the distance) and are busy nuking you down for 400-500 every 1.5 seconds.

Archery damage is really screwed up here.

Sun 16 Jun 2019 4:20 PM by gotwqqd

Siouxsie wrote: ↑
Sun 16 Jun 2019 1:12 PM
Leandrys wrote: ↑
Sat 15 Jun 2019 8:13 PM
Shadanwolf wrote: ↑
Sat 15 Jun 2019 6:41 PM
I took my 49 Ranger out to the frontier yesterday to see what he could do(I had stopped playing for a few weeks). I have a decent bow with dex over 300. The results approximated a mosquito bite to any armored non cloth wearers. Stunningly poor. The only way I would think this was a serious class would be if I was in a stealth GROUP. Solo...............(decides not to express more negativity by not commenting further).

Bow damages arn't fine but let's be honnest, a Berzerker for example isn't able to come at melee range if he doesn't have heal pot/legion UP and even so, if you succeed with crits, he won't be able to, then comes the "IP up or not ?" question and it's the same thing for a lot of classes, except you still can disengage while some others can't, you deal damages with bow, there just are too many tools for anyone to avoid dieing from bow in 75% of cases when your target is buffed and temp'ed.

Something is wrong in your stuff, "dex over 300" doesn't allow to pretend you know optimized bow's damages, i have one 41 ranger and my dext allready peaks at 324, rangers have no problem getting really close from 400 dext and FA+mastery of archery will help very decently with DPS.

Your opponent's tools are what makes them difficult to kill, shooting at a war with ABS charge up and galla's torso procing is a disaster, tanks are a challenge for archers and that is natural.

I'd say the real problem lies in killing clothies, because honnestly if the guy knows its stuff, this is suicide for you, i this case DPS isn't the problem, most of times it's the arsenal everybody has here, combined with caster's skills, it makes them much too strong for archers in 1vs1.

Completely agree with this. Archers were never meant to kill tanks one on one, they were meant to kill cloth-wearing casters. As an archer, I should be able to 2-shot a caster. Instead, it takes something like 5 or 6 shots. By that time, they've MOC'd or sent the pet after you (which has closed the distance) and are busy nuking you down for 400-500 every 1.5 seconds.

Archery damage is really screwed up here.

Or /face stun nuke nuke nuke

Mon 17 Jun 2019 2:14 PM by Horus

Yea, that is probably the biggest frustration...how "tanky" cloth casters are. Not sure how in the dmg formula that has come about....

1st shot breaks bubble
2nd shot is crit shot. with 5,5 speed bow and 370 dex, 58 Archery it hits for around 600
3rd shot for around 300
You are lucky to get off a 4th shot unless rapid fire..then the dmg drops to around 160
By that time the cloth caster is either out of range or has taken mitigating action against you, Pet, QC, heal charges.

For a ranged archer you just have to accept that your targets either need to be distracted or a few levels below you to get a kill.

Mon 17 Jun 2019 3:51 PM by Hejjin

Horus wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 2:14 PM
Yea, that is probably the biggest frustration...how "tanky" cloth casters are. Not sure how in the dmg formula that has come about....

1st shot breaks bubble
2nd shot is crit shot. with 5,5 speed bow and 370 dex, 58 Archery it hits for around 600
3rd shot for around 300
You are lucky to get off a 4th shot unless rapid fire..then the dmg drops to around 160
By that time the cloth caster is either out of range or has taken mitigating action against you, Pet, QC, heal charges.

For a ranged archer you just have to accept that your targets either need to be distracted or a few levels below you to get a kill.

Sad but accurate, I have been playing my Scout a lot recently and noticed just how poor archery is on here. It certainly needs some help.