How do debuffs work? - Phoenix Freeshard

I've mostly played a tank in daoc so have some areas of ignorance when it comes to casters. I'm currently working on a mana Enchanter and I see it has a 50% heat debuff at high level. Now I have a Mentalist friend who is speccing light and I realized that I do not really know how debuffs work. If, lets say, we encounter a solo
Skald who would have no caster resists does the heat resist buff just strip his presumed 26% personal heat resist or does it give him a -24% heat resist since the debuff is 50%. Thank you in advance for your knowledge and wisdom

Thu 28 Mar 2019 4:56 PM by lurker

Yes, you will end up doing + damage if the resists go into negative numbers.

+24% in your example (assuming he doesn’t have his chants up)

Thu 28 Mar 2019 7:45 PM by Amp_Phetamine

Thought all magic resists could only drop to a base of 0% resistance (maximum spell damage) and there is no calculation for technically negative resists (e.g. a player with +25% heat resistance gets heat debuffed by -50%. This would reduce the players heat resistance from 25% to 0% but it will not reduce the 0% to a -25% which in turn would function to increase the casters magic dps by +25% above the 0% cap?).

Thu 28 Mar 2019 8:20 PM by

gruenesschaf

While we had the debuff crit RA we put a -5% cap in place (most you could / can still be debuffed to with 26 from items and no resist buffs with a non crit debuff), since the removal of that ra / switch to new RAs we also removed this cap and resist debuffs work as they are supposed to.

Thu 28 Mar 2019 9:03 PM by teiloh

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Thu 28 Mar 2019 8:20 PM
While we had the debuff crit RA we put a -5% cap in place (most you could / can still be debuffed to with 26 from items and no resist buffs with a non crit debuff), since the removal of that ra / switch to new RAs we also removed this cap and resist debuffs work as they are supposed to.

Testing with a wizard a few days ago on my Necro with 5% matter resist, the -resist was still capping at -5% I believe.

Fri 29 Mar 2019 6:15 PM by Turtle006

My Cabby hits for what appears to be cap damage with LT on a 50% body debuffed target, (exact same damage every time) it is working as intended as far as I can see.

Thu 13 Jun 2019 1:08 PM by dstrmberg

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Thu 28 Mar 2019 8:20 PM
While we had the debuff crit RA we put a -5% cap in place (most you could / can still be debuffed to with 26 from items and no resist buffs with a non crit debuff), since the removal of that ra / switch to new RAs we also removed this cap and resist debuffs work as they are supposed to.

Could you elaborate on "work as they are supposed to" please?

Thu 13 Jun 2019 10:28 PM by

gruenesschaf

dstrmberg wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Jun 2019 1:08 PM
Could you elaborate on "work as they are supposed to" please?

Example against 16% buffed resist and 20% item resist with a 50 delve debuff:
50 delve debuff * 1.25 spec bonus, truncated = 62
62 - 16 = 46
46 / 2 = 23
20 - 23 = -3
-> result is -3 resist

For 50% against 26% from items and 0% buff:
50 delve debuff * 1.25 spec bonus, truncated = 62
62 / 2 = 31
26 - 31 = -5
-> result is -5 resist

Thu 13 Jun 2019 10:41 PM by stinsfire

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Jun 2019 10:28 PM
dstrmberg wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Jun 2019 1:08 PM
Could you elaborate on "work as they are supposed to" please?

Example against 16% buffed resist and 20% item resist with a 50 delve debuff:
50 delve debuff * 1.25 spec bonus, truncated = 62
62 - 16 = 46
46 / 2 = 23
20 - 23 = -3
-> result is -3 resist

For 50% against 26% from items and 0% buff:
50 delve debuff * 1.25 spec bonus, truncated = 62
62 / 2 = 31
26 - 31 = -5
-> result is -5 resist

So with 26% from items and 24% buff:
62 - 24 = 38
38 / 2 = 19
26-19 = 7

Is that correct?
If I have composite 50% resists the 50% delve debuff will not bring me down to 0% resists?
I always assumed it was just 50-62 = -12 or 0 (Was never sure if you could have negative resists)

Just sounds really weird to me. "Hey I can debuff you for 50, but actually its 62. But when I cast it on you it will only debuff you for 43"

Is that just the official mythic formula? Could you explain to me the why debuff delve minus buff resists gets divided by 2? How did they/you come up with that formula? Why is it better than just substracting debuff delve from composite resists? If I was a dev developing daoc back then and the designers told me "Hey that class can debuff for 62%" I would have simply used 50-62 and then cap the result at 0. Devs oftentimes come up with these quite intricate formulas when all that would come to my mind would be the most simple math

Maybe you can give insight on that. Would be appreciated.

Fri 14 Jun 2019 5:26 AM by

gruenesschaf

stinsfire wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Jun 2019 10:41 PM
So with 26% from items and 24% buff:
62 - 24 = 38
38 / 2 = 19
26-19 = 7

Is that correct?

Yes

stinsfire wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Jun 2019 10:41 PM
Is that just the official mythic formula? Could you explain to me the why debuff delve minus buff resists gets divided by 2? How did they/you come up with that formula? Why is it better than just substracting debuff delve from composite resists? If I was a dev developing daoc back then and the designers told me "Hey that class can debuff for 62%" I would have simply used 50-62 and then cap the result at 0. Devs oftentimes come up with these quite intricate formulas when all that would come to my mind would be the most simple math

Maybe you can give insight on that. Would be appreciated.

It's the official thing, the 1.25 spec multiplier is something you have on many buffs and debuffs. The value after the spec multiplier works as is against resist buffs and the remainder is halved before it's used against item resists. Afaik the last non delve change to the resist debuff mechanic was a bug fix in 1.65 according to patch notes.

Fri 14 Jun 2019 8:34 AM by dstrmberg

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Jun 2019 10:28 PM
...

Nice, thanks!