Getting the perfect template. - Phoenix Freeshard

Hi o/
So I’m a new DAoC player and just hit 50 a while ago, so next step before being able to join and enjoy the pvp and rvr aspects of the game I need focus on my template. I’ve consulted and getting advice from friends that have played DAoC since back in the day.
My issue when I was plotting my template in, was what about racial? I myself play as a Saracen, scout. I get some racial traits to resist – in my case +5 Heat, +2 Slash, + 3Thurst.
Like we all know we want to perfect our template to preform the best and reduce the chance of losing in pvp/rvr. (no player-skill is taken into account – in that case no template could save me in daoc)
I put my trust into my friend, they have made templates since I was merely a little boy, but the rebel in me is acting out.
E.g. if apply resist to cover 26/26 threshold in thrust, I get my extra +3 from my racial. How does this affect me in-game? I get that I have 26+3 = 29. But lazy as I’m, I thought why not take my racial into effect and add it in my total of 26 and not in addition, if the dmg reduction from 26 compared to 29 is not that significant? Then ill will be saving some time and gold trying to max out my template. Meaning I would go 23/26 + 3 and still obtain the cap of 26 resist. I know there is a difference on 26% and 29%, sure. But how much does it affect me in-game in pvp?
Is the consensus that its better to cap at 26/26 and enjoy the racial from the different races?

So, if any of you have collected a spreadsheet or something else that can prove valuable here, I very much like to hear from you.

Thanks again, my see you out there!

Wed 12 Jun 2019 10:06 AM by crlmx

Get the 26 resists, you won't regret it.
If you make a semi optimal template now and later regret it you will lose even more money if you decide to remake it.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 10:12 AM by Sepplord

i am a bit confused what you mean?

3%resist won't make or break most fights...but following that logic, anyone would be fine with 23% and if 23% is fine, what's the big difference from 20 to 23%...
what's the huge difference between 75str and only 70? and +11weapon and only +10?
It's always just a percent here and a percent there.
Especially with resists it's really easy to see the difference, since it's just a straight %-calculation, with 26% resist you take 74% basedamage, with 29%-resist you only take 71%basedamage

People don't go for 26% resist, because that is a magical gate where fights suddenly go different. They go 26% resist, because it is literally impossible to get more from items. If it was possible people would get more. If the cap got reduced to 20% for whatever reasons, then people would go for that.

Looking at the title, a perfect temp caps out all stats AND includes other beneficial stuff (like TG vest healp procc). Assassins also benefit from the temp being weaponless since you can then easily play around with different ROG-weapons and their quite strong proccs.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 11:01 AM by Evilkat

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 10:12 AM
i am a bit confused what you mean?

3%resist won't make or break most fights...but following that logic, anyone would be fine with 23% and if 23% is fine, what's the big difference from 20 to 23%...
what's the huge difference between 75str and only 70? and +11weapon and only +10?
It's always just a percent here and a percent there.
Especially with resists it's really easy to see the difference, since it's just a straight %-calculation, with 26% resist you take 74% basedamage, with 29%-resist you only take 71%basedamage

People don't go for 26% resist, because that is a magical gate where fights suddenly go different. They go 26% resist, because it is literally impossible to get more from items. If it was possible people would get more. If the cap got reduced to 20% for whatever reasons, then people would go for that.

I'm not talking about not hitting the threshold at 26/26, just on how, and how significant the impact will be adding my racial into the 26 and not excluding them to build my resist to the desired 26/26 and then gain the racial as an additional %.

It is my interest to have the best suited template for rvr and pvp. Not cutting short. But my frustration was more about the value above the 26 cap, like are the diminishing retur or the 3 additional? How does this affect me in-game in a fight, do i take 100 dmg with 26 resist and 97 dmg with 26+3.. for me that is a marginal increase that i would care less about, but as i said and what I'm hoping for is that som dude out there got a spreadsheet locked up somewhere to show me the actually effect that is tested in-game. Does the 29 resist compare to the 26 resist in thrust do a significant reduction in the damage i take, (more then just 3 dmg). I will take the 29 over 26 giving the many stealth classes that roam the bushes, which is my assumption that many use thrust. So will my survival chances be significant higher or not?

Hope it all makes sense.

And thanks for the reply.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 11:44 AM by kiectred

Evilkat wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 11:01 AM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 10:12 AM
i am a bit confused what you mean?

3%resist won't make or break most fights...but following that logic, anyone would be fine with 23% and if 23% is fine, what's the big difference from 20 to 23%...
what's the huge difference between 75str and only 70? and +11weapon and only +10?
It's always just a percent here and a percent there.
Especially with resists it's really easy to see the difference, since it's just a straight %-calculation, with 26% resist you take 74% basedamage, with 29%-resist you only take 71%basedamage

People don't go for 26% resist, because that is a magical gate where fights suddenly go different. They go 26% resist, because it is literally impossible to get more from items. If it was possible people would get more. If the cap got reduced to 20% for whatever reasons, then people would go for that.

I'm not talking about not hitting the threshold at 26/26, just on how, and how significant the impact will be adding my racial into the 26 and not excluding them to build my resist to the desired 26/26 and then gain the racial as an additional %.

It is my interest to have the best suited template for rvr and pvp. Not cutting short. But my frustration was more about the value above the 26 cap, like are the diminishing retur or the 3 additional? How does this affect me in-game in a fight, do i take 100 dmg with 26 resist and 97 dmg with 26+3.. for me that is a marginal increase that i would care less about, but as i said and what I'm hoping for is that som dude out there got a spreadsheet locked up somewhere to show me the actually effect that is tested in-game. Does the 29 resist compare to the 26 resist in thrust do a significant reduction in the damage i take, (more then just 3 dmg). I will take the 29 over 26 giving the many stealth classes that roam the bushes, which is my assumption that many use thrust. So will my survival chances be significant higher or not? Hope it all makes sense.

And thanks for the reply.

What he's getting at is why is 26/26 your chosen "desired" goal? Simply because that's the item max. But that's an arbitrary number really... why not stop lower, or lower, or lower, just to save the money. Minor as the difference between 26 and 29 may be, he's basically saying why stop there - save on quickness and do 70 instead of 75 because you won't notice it. Actually, will you notice 65 instead of 75? Etc, etc.

Regardless, maxing everything isn't very difficult or expensive. If you want, message me in-game sometime and I'll even SC at cost for you. Same name in-game as my forum name.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 11:53 AM by Sepplord

to add to the answers:
your racial boni are equal to itemresists, there are no diminishing returns.
the difference might seem small, but especially in 1vs1 every tiny bit can matter. I have survived fights with 1% life and i had enemies die on the last small tick of poison

It is my interest to have the best suited template for rvr and pvp. Not cutting short.

Then cap out all itemboni, no matter how small the benefit seems to be. If that really is the goal, i am unsure what you are struggling with....even if the difference is only a single dmg over the whole fight, that's still better. 0,000001 > 0

Wed 12 Jun 2019 12:06 PM by Evilkat

What he's getting at is why is 26/26 your chosen "desired" goal? Simply because that's the item max. But that's an arbitrary number really... why not stop lower, or lower, or lower, just to save the money. Minor as the difference between 26 and 29 may be, he's basically saying why stop there - save on quickness and do 70 instead of 75 because you won't notice it. Actually, will you notice 65 instead of 75? Etc, etc.

Regardless, maxing everything isn't very difficult or expensive. If you want, message me in-game sometime and I'll even SC at cost for you. Same name in-game as my forum name.
[/quote]

The chosen desired goal is to max and optimize my template and this thread is revolving around resistance, and the impact of such, and whether to incl. or exclude your race racial and the impact of such. To provide me with a understanding on how Daoc and templates work. So again my concern is how to max my resistances to acquire the threshold that the game provides being the 26/26. And after discussing the topic with you and the advise from my friends, taking this into consideration with my inferior experience and knowledge to Daoc and how to construct a template, I see that I must aim to gain the maximum from my gear etc. and then have the racial effect as an addition to my stats. So that i have som competitive advantages as a saracen, like other races will have different benefits on different stats, resists.

So to address you logic, I'm not to stop at a lower value, and will not be satisfied at a lower stat, due to gold and time consumption. I never intended to gimp my self for the competitive scene in Daoc, but is only to address the difference in obtaining the max stats the games provides for us, by using resist stats and racial to get the max threshold. But like you guys stated and what I'm being advised to do is to optimize through gear and then have my racial as an addition to can a small advantage.

Thanks again! Can't wait to get started with the rvr/pvp.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 7:55 PM by Kaseylol

Why use all your spec points either? Just get a couple cool looking abilities and be happy

Wed 12 Jun 2019 8:35 PM by Evilkat

Kaseylol wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 7:55 PM
Why use all your spec points either? Just get a couple cool looking abilities and be happy

I see you clearly didn't get why I made this thread. So just by commenting on your post I'm wasting time. /clap I'm kinda impressed.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 8:39 PM by kiectred

Evilkat wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 8:35 PM
Kaseylol wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 7:55 PM
Why use all your spec points either? Just get a couple cool looking abilities and be happy

I see you clearly didn't get why I made this thread. So just by commenting on your post I'm wasting time. /clap I'm kinda impressed.

Please ignore him. To a lot of veteran players the question might sound silly, and people are a bit confused maybe as to why it was asked, but you deserve more useful feedback than that.

I hope you enjoy the game

Thu 13 Jun 2019 9:56 PM by Kaseylol

Evilkat wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 8:35 PM
Kaseylol wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 7:55 PM
Why use all your spec points either? Just get a couple cool looking abilities and be happy

I see you clearly didn't get why I made this thread. So just by commenting on your post I'm wasting time. /clap I'm kinda impressed.

Oh I see why, I just find it funny how complicated you made it. A simple question or Google search of "do racial resists stack" would have gotten you to an answer way sooner.