Fix the Charm exploit - Phoenix Freeshard

It is total annoying when you mezz a ministrel and he easy releases his charm so his pet atacks him to get him out of mezz while he instant recharms the pet.
The pet should reset his mezz immunity. ->maybe he get punched out of the mezz but not get immunity. would be a fair trade off.

Tue 4 Jun 2019 11:49 PM by florin

Not
An
Exploit
Next

Tue 4 Jun 2019 11:52 PM by Milchschnidde

you shouldnt be able to release the pet while mezzed or stunned. you are logical disabled only purge should work as long you are disabled, this is a logical thing and has nothing to do with the current state. Every CC has some kind of immunity timer, but charm seems to not have any immunity while its exactly the same its some kind of control spell. At least add some immunity timer till the pet can be charmed again.

Tue 4 Jun 2019 11:56 PM by florin

Your pulse is no longer active and the pet is released

Wed 5 Jun 2019 12:01 AM by Milchschnidde

florin wrote: ↑
Tue 4 Jun 2019 11:56 PM
Your pulse is no longer active and the pet is released

that might be ok, but it shouldnt be possible to instant recharm. The monster should be immune to it for 15 seconds or so ... its total annyoing an quite overpowerd to run around with a red-purp pet and simply keep the button smashed on that instant charm to recharm instantly if it resists. There is btw no skill to break the charm, unless CC -mezz which is kind of useless because the pet releases and atacks, so he can be recharmed.
Confusion should work somehow, but it doenst even work on summoned pets to atack random targets. you can only counter summoned Fnf pets.

Wed 5 Jun 2019 12:03 AM by Bumbles

Milchschnidde wrote: ↑
Tue 4 Jun 2019 11:52 PM
you shouldnt be able to release the pet while mezzed or stunned. you are logical disabled only purge should work as long you are disabled, this is a logical thing and has nothing to do with the current state. Every CC has some kind of immunity timer, but charm seems to not have any immunity while its exactly the same its some kind of control spell. At least add some immunity timer till the pet can be charmed again.

This would make sense if you pet was on a leash going for a walk, but given we are talking about "magic" of sorts your logic can go fly a kite.

Wed 5 Jun 2019 12:24 AM by Joc

Intended since release. Not an exploit or a bug.

Wed 5 Jun 2019 1:05 AM by Milchschnidde

Joc wrote: ↑
Wed 5 Jun 2019 12:24 AM
Intended since release. Not an exploit or a bug.

there are a lot of things since release and are counted bugs from a few ppl in the community, which never have been fixed. With ML etc they add some counter/balance against some sort of "bugs" to balance things out. In The current game there are no ML, CLS or any other class specific RAs and no changes from live server like warden with shilds etc.

It's some sort of balanceing things. Its a mechanic that is somehow exploitable, just because pets are insane retarded it doesent mean it is intended since release.

Wed 5 Jun 2019 2:27 AM by Cadebrennus

It's an exploit.

Wed 5 Jun 2019 2:58 AM by gotwqqd

Maybe it s not intended but calling it an exploit is a reach.

How do you propose the minstrel handle the situation?
Release and mezz the pet before he gets mezzed?

Wed 5 Jun 2019 3:58 AM by lurker

This has always been the case for mentalists and minstrels. Its not an exploit, just part of the game.

It can be countered... mezz the minstrel/mentalist, when (s)he releases pet... root/mezz the pet or even just hit the pet once to take aggro.

Wed 5 Jun 2019 5:38 AM by teiloh

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Wed 5 Jun 2019 2:27 AM
It's an exploit.

Nah rangers having bows is an exploit. Time to delete it.

Wed 5 Jun 2019 3:17 PM by ExcretusMaximus

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Wed 5 Jun 2019 1:56 PM
What an incredibly moronic statement. Thank you for exposing yourself so that the rest of the board knows to stay clear of you.

You missed the point entirely.

You're claiming, without exception, that a class mechanic which has existed for nearly 20 years is an exploit, when it is not. So he did the exact same. Your reaction to his statement is the same as his to yours.

Wed 5 Jun 2019 5:11 PM by teiloh

An ability doing exactly what it should and what it has since release - what an exploit

Wed 5 Jun 2019 5:38 PM by teiloh

Milchschnidde wrote: ↑
Tue 4 Jun 2019 11:52 PM
you shouldnt be able to release the pet while mezzed or stunned. you are logical disabled only purge should work as long you are disabled, this is a logical thing and has nothing to do with the current state. Every CC has some kind of immunity timer, but charm seems to not have any immunity while its exactly the same its some kind of control spell. At least add some immunity timer till the pet can be charmed again.

Every chant stops pulsing while CC'd.

Wed 5 Jun 2019 7:11 PM by Fooj Fujiyama

I think a fair fix would be that if you mez the minstrel/menty pet then the only way they can get it out of mez is to demezz it. Minstrel and menty do have demezz by the way and I would like to think that some minstrels/menties would have the skill to be able to demezz their pet. Btw I have a 50 minstrel so for me to take this stance shows I want the game to have fair mechanics, and this mechanic has always been kind of questionable. That way there is some counterplay against the minstrel if you can get a good mez off.

Wed 5 Jun 2019 7:17 PM by teiloh

Fooj Fujiyama wrote: ↑
Wed 5 Jun 2019 7:11 PM
I think a fair fix would be that if you mez the minstrel/menty pet then the only way they can get it out of mez is to demezz it. Minstrel and menty do have demezz by the way and I would like to think that some minstrels/menties would have the skill to be able to demezz their pet. Btw I have a 50 minstrel so for me to take this stance shows I want the game to have fair mechanics, and this mechanic has always been kind of questionable. That way there is some counterplay against the minstrel if you can get a good mez off.

This would not be fair, and it's not a fix. Without a pet, a Minstrel is more or less a worthless, redundant class.

A 'fix' would be fixing the 10+ ninja nerfs to Minstrel charm.

Wed 5 Jun 2019 7:19 PM by Fooj Fujiyama

A minstrel whining about what is fair, that is hilarious to me. You have so many advantages it's not even funny, you need everything to be in your favor though I suppose? So if you get outplayed by getting mezzed and having your pet mezzed but having it be changed so you cant insta break any mez/root on you would be unfair to you I guess even though you got outplayed. This is coming by someone who has a minstrel that I enjoy playing by the way, have some introspection about what is fair for a minute why don't ya? Minstrel is definitely not redundant without a purple pet btw, I roll without a pet oftentimes and do great in 8 man. Git gud

Wed 5 Jun 2019 7:27 PM by teiloh

Fooj Fujiyama wrote: ↑
Wed 5 Jun 2019 7:19 PM
A minstrel whining about what is fair, that is hilarious to me. You have so many advantages it's not even funny, you need everything to be in your favor though I suppose? So if you get outplayed by getting mezzed and having your pet mezzed but having it be changed so you cant insta break any cc on you would be unfair to you I guess. This is coming by someone who has a minstrel that I enjoy playing by the way, have some introspection about what is fair for a minute why don't ya?

Oh yeah, it's so scary that a Minstrel with the game's lowest DPS after Bards can demezz itself - it's almost like a Skald with det 5, except you actually need a baseline of brain activity to use the former, and Minstrels do maybe 1/4th the damage per swing as a Skald.

Not to mention you have to twist forever to keep that pet, and the pets are all nerfed to shit. You're the only one whining, trying to get a game mechanic changed with your cheeseball political rhetoric and wordplay.

Wed 5 Jun 2019 7:29 PM by Fooj Fujiyama

Like I said, git gud

Wed 5 Jun 2019 7:30 PM by teiloh

Fooj Fujiyama wrote: ↑
Wed 5 Jun 2019 7:29 PM
Like I said, git gud

I'd wipe the floor with you on Minstrel. I've never heard of you in 8v8 so I presume you're talking solo, in which case "landing a good mez" means its an insta skald mez. Otherwise what other solo mezzers are you running into, Mentalists? Spiritmasters?

Wed 5 Jun 2019 7:35 PM by Fooj Fujiyama

I have outplayed minstrels in 1 v 1 on my mentalist but it doesn't matter because of pet release. If I was able to mez that minstrel and his pet with single targe tmez he got outplayed hard and you can't be able to argue against that because you know its true. So to all the minstrel mary-sues out there, git gud. To the devs - put in my fix, it's the logical way to solve the problem. Purge-demezz exists, add some new rules to these 20 year old garbage mechanics. The minstrel mary-sues will be fine I promise.

Wed 5 Jun 2019 7:38 PM by teiloh

Fooj Fujiyama wrote: ↑
Wed 5 Jun 2019 7:35 PM
I have outplayed minstrels in 1 v 1 on my mentalist but it doesn't matter because of pet release. If I was able to mez that minstrel and his pet with single targe tmez he got outplayed hard and you can't be able to argue against that because you know its true. So to all the minstrel mary-sues out there, git gud.

lol.

1. You mezzed a minstrel and then mezzed a pet at 1500 range. You didn't outplay shit, you just got a lucky drop.
2. You used QC to mez after mezzing. You didn't outplay shit, game mechanics favor you.

Just be glad it's not a Skald with Det 5 or worse a BD you'd never have any hope of winning against and stop crying. Minstrel actually needs to cart a pet around which is an effort.

Wed 5 Jun 2019 7:39 PM by Fooj Fujiyama

Dude give it up, nobody wants to hear a minstrel cry about stuff all day.

Wed 5 Jun 2019 7:40 PM by teiloh

Fooj Fujiyama wrote: ↑
Wed 5 Jun 2019 7:39 PM
Dude give it up, nobody wants to hear a minstrel cry about stuff all day.

rofl. You're the whiner whining in a whiny thread. Get over it, it's a game mechanic that's been in for ages.

I'm sure you think your Mentalist's stun nuke is just fine too.

Wed 5 Jun 2019 7:45 PM by Horus

I feel like the way it used to work is once you released a pet from charm it tried to walk back to its camp, not attack the minst...but I've drank since I last played a minst on live...

Wed 5 Jun 2019 7:46 PM by teiloh

Horus wrote: ↑
Wed 5 Jun 2019 7:45 PM
I feel like the way it used to work is once you released a pet from charm it tried to walk back to its camp, not attack the minst...but I've drank since I last played a minst on live...

It has always worked the way it does now.

Wed 5 Jun 2019 8:03 PM by Fooj Fujiyama

teiloh wrote: ↑
Wed 5 Jun 2019 7:40 PM
Fooj Fujiyama wrote: ↑
Wed 5 Jun 2019 7:39 PM
Dude give it up, nobody wants to hear a minstrel cry about stuff all day.

rofl. You're the whiner whining in a whiny thread. Get over it, it's a game mechanic that's been in for ages.

I'm sure you think your Mentalist's stun nuke is just fine too.

So you think that if you got stunned by a mentalist that is unfair too? Why don't you try staying out of their range a bit instead of getting owned all the time, you might be less salty. I have said what I needed to say, I wasn't crying by the way I gave some well thought out amazing points about adding counterplay against a minstrel that you can't even argue with outside of "it's tradition to keep crappy mechanics!" or "I won't be a mary-sue if I actually have to do things like demezz instead of insta release". It's no skill required by the way so like I said, git gud and also I can see why you would want it to stay that way haha. GG

Wed 5 Jun 2019 8:13 PM by Keelia

It’s just the way it works, imo the minstrel charm needs to have a cool down and shouldn’t be spammablenlike it is, that way we wouldn’t have red/purp pets running around. Oj should be the max imo.

Wed 5 Jun 2019 8:16 PM by Joc

Minstrels are just fine

Wed 5 Jun 2019 8:46 PM by teiloh

Fooj Fujiyama wrote: ↑
Wed 5 Jun 2019 8:03 PM
So you think that if you got stunned by a mentalist that is unfair too? Why don't you try staying out of their range a bit instead of getting owned all the time, you might be less salty. I have said what I needed to say, I wasn't crying by the way I gave some well thought out amazing points about adding counterplay against a minstrel that you can't even argue with outside of "it's tradition to keep crappy mechanics!" or "I won't be a mary-sue if I actually have to do things like demezz instead of insta release". It's no skill required by the way so like I said, git gud and also I can see why you would want it to stay that way haha. GG

Saying git gud when I have farmed you and 15-20 seconded your groups with mine. Just give Minstrels BD pets and we'll see what you have to say about "counterplay"

Wed 5 Jun 2019 11:45 PM by Fooj Fujiyama

Oh so you are really amazing at this game and an uber minstrel, but you would be useless without your insta pet break? You can't take two opposing stances it just makes you seem like a nub and proves my point that most minstrels are arrogant mary-sues who cry when they can't be super OP all the time. Another funny thing is that you seem to just assume that you own everybody?

What makes you think you have owned me, the three characters listed are a ranger/nature drood/battle bard - yeah I have a thing for making funky builds cuz I enjoy playing off builds that people don't play as even though they are weaker. It's possible you killed my ranger which would make sense he is vulnerable to a bunch of classes but he hits hard as heck... so you can prob kill me in 1 v 1 but I will add on your dumpy 8 man and wreck you guys while you fight another 8 man, ask your dead realm mates when see Fooj kill spam in the frontiers as I wreck people. My bard and druid haven't even played in quite a while besides on the nature druid for a little bit the other night. Your arrogance is hilarious to me when you say you have owned my group... what group? rofl!!!
My other 8 man characters aren't even listed here, you think you just own everybody and at the same time cry that you are borderline useless without purple pets or if the insta pet charm was nerfed, it's just very funny to me. Never even heard of or seen you in frontiers btw.

Btw you have access to MOC as well no? That is two ways besides the no skill pet release that you can demezz your pet, GG.

Thu 6 Jun 2019 1:17 AM by teiloh

Fooj Fujiyama wrote: ↑
Wed 5 Jun 2019 11:45 PM
Oh so you are really amazing at this game and an uber minstrel, but you would be useless without your insta pet break?

The fact that I repeatedly curb stomp you into the ground bears no relevance to the fact that your "balance" proposals are bad. You're super butthurt about Minstrels breaking CC on themselves because maybe once or twice it helped a Minstrel kill you 1v1. Get over it. A minstrel doesn't do enough damage to matter outside of 1 or 2 v 1/2s and Minstrels pets have already been nerfed to shit on Phoenix, just like all Alb pets.

Your "brilliant" idea just makes Minstrel and Mentalist charm a dogshit version of any summoned or charmed pet.

Thu 6 Jun 2019 2:53 AM by Fooj Fujiyama

teiloh wrote: ↑
Thu 6 Jun 2019 1:17 AM
Fooj Fujiyama wrote: ↑
Wed 5 Jun 2019 11:45 PM
Oh so you are really amazing at this game and an uber minstrel, but you would be useless without your insta pet break?

The fact that I repeatedly curb stomp you into the ground bears no relevance to the fact that your "balance" proposals are bad. You're super butthurt about Minstrels breaking CC on themselves because maybe once or twice it helped a Minstrel kill you 1v1. Get over it. A minstrel doesn't do enough damage to matter outside of 1 or 2 v 1/2s and Minstrels pets have already been nerfed to shit on Phoenix, just like all Alb pets.

Your "brilliant" idea just makes Minstrel and Mentalist charm a dogshit version of any summoned or charmed pet.

I don't really have anything else to say to you, I like to keep it about the game rather than get all personal. I will say this though I barely ever die on my ranger since I like to pick my fights carefully so you must be dreaming. That's funny though you have "curb stomped" me 20 times but I have no idea who you are lol

Thu 6 Jun 2019 4:40 AM by jelzinga_EU

I know the current mechanic is pretty much how it has always been - but personally I don't think it is very balanced.

I would propose a change that when the minstrel releases a pet it does not purge any form of CC on it, so if you CC both (minstrel and his pet) the release-pet trick doesn't work to break the CC on the minstrel.

If you only CC the minstrel, the pet will still break out of charm and aggro minstrel (thus breaking CC on him). Give minstrel Determination too - like all other rogue-classes and call it the day.

Thu 6 Jun 2019 4:53 AM by teiloh

jelzinga_EU wrote: ↑
Thu 6 Jun 2019 4:40 AM
I know the current mechanic is pretty much how it has always been - but personally I don't think it is very balanced.

I would propose a change that when the minstrel releases a pet it does not purge any form of CC on it, so if you CC both (minstrel and his pet) the release-pet trick doesn't work to break the CC on the minstrel.

If you only CC the minstrel, the pet will still break out of charm and aggro minstrel (thus breaking CC on him). Give minstrel Determination too - like all other rogue-classes and call it the day.

Minstrel will need much, much more than that in return if the pet is being made worthless. For one all bugs and stealth nerfs would have to be fixed - damage raised, no damage penalty on charm, abilities restored, absorption scaling returned, stat scaling returned, speeds upped where relevant.

Then charm would need to be separated off songs and be unbreakable up to 110% of level unless the Minstrel/Mentalist willingly releases the pet.

Thu 6 Jun 2019 4:57 AM by teiloh

Fooj Fujiyama wrote: ↑
Thu 6 Jun 2019 2:53 AM
I don't really have anything else to say to you, I like to keep it about the game rather than get all personal. I will say this though I barely ever die on my ranger since I like to pick my fights carefully so you must be dreaming. That's funny though you have "curb stomped" me 20 times but I have no idea who you are lol

If you're out and visible, my group has prob repeatedly killed you. Not that this is relevant to anything. That's all I'm going to say in response to "git gud." I rarely get caught in mezzes myself, but being unable to break CC on a 2000 range tethered pet would make the ability a joke - especially since many mobs were stripped out of the frontiers.

I don't see why you care so much if it's about your Ranger. To make your point you'll have to explain why this mechanic is broken, considering how much Minstrel and Ment charm has been gutted on Phoenix. If you think Minstrels should have charm completely nerfed to trash without compensation, then I really question your knowledge of the game - and your prerogative here, considering you're mostly a stealth solo (as you claim).

Thu 6 Jun 2019 9:46 AM by jelzinga_EU

teiloh wrote: ↑
Thu 6 Jun 2019 4:53 AM
Minstrel will need much, much more than that in return if the pet is being made worthless. For one all bugs and stealth nerfs would have to be fixed - damage raised, no damage penalty on charm, abilities restored, absorption scaling returned, stat scaling returned, speeds upped where relevant.

Then charm would need to be separated off songs and be unbreakable up to 110% of level unless the Minstrel/Mentalist willingly releases the pet.

I think you forgot plate-armour and dualwielding pole-arms.

The entire "release pet and break all current CC on it" is originally a lazy programmers coding that got into the live game, and the lazy programming solution was beneficial to minstrels. Later you end up in a situation where you need to balance and this (original) coding-bug becomes part of balancing. Then in DoL these (original) bugs are simply being emulated to keep the game close to the original.

With that all being said, any discussion about it further is just pointless, as it will never change and you are somehow thinking that a completely unCC'able pet (and thus minstrel) is part of the balancing-act for minstrels AND that it is balanced (at all). I do not agree with that assessment at all - but to each their own. Seeing how some classes who spec for their (FnF-)pets do not even get CC-cures/cleanses for their pet(s) I find it very hard to believe that somehow a line like Instruments and the minstrel-class is balanced with that.

Thu 6 Jun 2019 12:09 PM by lurker

It wouldn’t be a classic server experiance without threads like these! Same old tired arguments from over 15 years ago!! xD

Thu 6 Jun 2019 3:49 PM by teiloh

jelzinga_EU wrote: ↑
Thu 6 Jun 2019 9:46 AM
I think you forgot plate-armour and dualwielding pole-arms.

Yeah because making Minstrel pets work like they do on live, as the server advertised, is such a crazy idea. The Instruments line is decent, but if Minstrels didn't have speed they would likely never be grouped again.

And if charm didn't break CC, Minstrels would be able to just charm another pet immediately if there were any around. And you could simply break it yourself at the cost of 1 DD. The fact that it doesn't drop stun goes to show that this isn't a bug or "lazy programming" but a feature.

Thu 6 Jun 2019 7:00 PM by Fooj Fujiyama

The logical solution then is to add a second rule that says if you attack your pet it becomes enraged and fights you for 10 seconds. Aside from that a third rule could be put in place that says you can't charm a second mob for at least 10 seconds as well, there you go I solved the predicament.

Thu 6 Jun 2019 7:31 PM by teiloh

Fooj Fujiyama wrote: ↑
Thu 6 Jun 2019 7:00 PM
The logical solution then is to add a second rule that says if you attack your pet it becomes enraged and fights you for 10 seconds. Aside from that a third rule could be put in place that says you can't charm a second mob for at least 10 seconds as well, there you go I solved the predicament.

Wow yeah, what a great idea, nerf Minstrel charm for the 11 and 12th times because it's not enough. Not to mention that retarded solution would require a lot of engineering.

Thu 6 Jun 2019 7:32 PM by lurker

The ‘logical’ solution is to not f*ck around with game mechanics that have been core to the game since the beginning.

This isn’t ‘totally custom game running on the DAOC UI’ it’s a daoc freeshard aimed at mimicking the game at a certain point with some custom QoL changes & minor class modifications to for balance.

This thread is as much non-sense as the guy asking to lower insta CC to 750 units. It smacks off ‘I died to X and now I’m upset’.

Thu 6 Jun 2019 7:47 PM by Fooj Fujiyama

Lol look how upset you are getting, truly pathetic

Thu 6 Jun 2019 7:51 PM by teiloh

Fooj Fujiyama wrote: ↑
Thu 6 Jun 2019 7:47 PM
Lol look how upset you are getting, truly pathetic

I'm just being blunt about how dumb your suggestions are. It's clear this has nothing to do with "fixing a broken mechanic" and is all about your personal butthurt about Minstrels, just like your fellow Ranger Cadebrennus.

Tell you what, why don't we "nerf" Minstrels by giving them recurve bows and Hunter insta pet as it's implemented now? Don't even need to add 2.0 spec points.

Thu 6 Jun 2019 7:58 PM by Fooj Fujiyama

We can have a difference of opinions without you guys crying over it. I think that the charm is a very dumb mechanic but if you like it that is your opinion. Like I said though it's no skill so if you enjoy no skill stuff than that's on you end of discussion.

Thu 6 Jun 2019 8:02 PM by teiloh

Fooj Fujiyama wrote: ↑
Thu 6 Jun 2019 7:58 PM
We can have a difference of opinions without you guys crying over it. I think that the charm is a very dumb mechanic but if you like it that is your opinion. Like I said though it's no skill so if you enjoy no skill stuff than that's on you end of discussion.

Minstrel charm is literally the most taxing, highest-skill ability in the game and one of the pay-offs is that you get out of a mez or root slightly faster than a Det 5 Skald IF you have your pet next to you at all times instead of sending it to do its job, which is to attack things.

If you wanted to be serious you'd recommend changing it to a perma charm or summon, not make Minstrel charm the most worthless joke ability in the game with an 11th and 12th nerf. Anyone recommending more nerfs to the most nerfed ability on the most nerfed class on Phoenix is probably pissing out of his ass in crying, whining anger.

Thu 6 Jun 2019 8:03 PM by Fooj Fujiyama

Dude you are such a victim aren't you, the poor minstrels are so gimped here!

Thu 6 Jun 2019 8:07 PM by teiloh

Fooj Fujiyama wrote: ↑
Thu 6 Jun 2019 8:03 PM
Dude you are such a victim aren't you, the poor minstrels are so gimped here!

1. Minstrels can no longer use charm while stunned/sitting/LOS'd (https://tracker.playphoenix.online/issu ... 71fe38a3ff)
2. Minstrel pets do not gain level difference damage bonus (https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewto ... roy#p45820)
3. Charmed pets have lowered damage scaling (https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewto ... npc#p13105 [1])
4. Charmed pets have lowered swing speed [1]
5. NPCs have lowered swing speed scaling from Qui [1]
6. NPCs have lowered DD damage scaling from Int [1]
7. NPCs have lowered cast speed scaling from Dex [1]
8. NPCs have lowered absorb [1]
9. NPCs have lowered stat-absorb scaling (https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewto ... orb#p55583)
10. Charmed pets do lower damage per swing [1]
11. Many charmed pets are missing critical abilities, especially key Alb pets (https://tracker.playphoenix.online/issu ... f826993edb, https://tracker.playphoenix.online/issu ... ef1e3a06e7, https://tracker.playphoenix.online/issu ... 1860a65c92)
12. Many pets have lower run speed (see: frost stallion, einhorning)
13. Pet DoTs no longer interrupt every tick (patch-notes)
14. Charm duration is lower at 10s vs 11s (https://tracker.playphoenix.online/issu ... 20266c0c64 [2])
15. Charm pulse frequency reduced from every 4.75 seconds to 5.0 seconds [2]
16. Pets are still not doing double hits
17. Charm is capped at 5~ per second
18. Pet charm has absolute level cap

You're the only one crying about the most nerfed class on Phoenix.

Thu 6 Jun 2019 8:10 PM by lurker

This thread makes me happy, far far from upset!

Thu 6 Jun 2019 8:12 PM by Fooj Fujiyama

You are just crying that you cant be king shit anymore, welcome to being balanced. If it was my server I would continue to drop you down a peg or two. Why don't you play hib for a few days and see what a balanced realm looks like. Anyways I am done with you, the nubs have taken up enough of my attention already, laters.

Thu 6 Jun 2019 8:14 PM by lurker

lol

Beautiful stuff.

Thu 6 Jun 2019 8:20 PM by teiloh

Fooj Fujiyama wrote: ↑
Thu 6 Jun 2019 8:12 PM
You are just crying that you cant be king shit anymore, welcome to being balanced. If it was my server I would continue to drop you down a peg or two. Why don't you play hib for a few days and see what a balanced realm looks like. Anyways I am done with you, the nubs have taken up enough of my attention already, laters.

Whine some more. I'm sure you'd implement all sorts of dumb shit to mix in with baseline stun and tanglers.

Glad you finally admitted it's not about "you playing a Minstrel" and "knowing it's overpowered", but it's just that you're a butthurt liar that wants to see Minstrels gutted.

Fri 7 Jun 2019 2:47 AM by TsunamiSurprise

At first i thought the pet was somehow immune to mez. Now I realize what OP is saying.

Not an exploit. Working as intended. Do not change.

Fri 7 Jun 2019 3:34 AM by Milchschnidde

Didnt want to start a new world war, i wanted to start an objective discussion about it. It is somehow broken (couldnt test it) but i felt the mezz duration on the pet/immunity doesnt switch as it should, i am not shure how status changes work on it. But played a bard and mezzed the ministrel pet a second time and it went immune, so i dont know how that was possible on another encounter the pet was entirely immune. So there must be an exploit ? If the ministrell mezzes the pet befor charm, does it get immun and keep it ?

The ministrel is allready powerfull, no other assassin or no speed 6 class can ever chase or kill a Ministrel, the purge+ip+sos Combo is also broken , but a fair mechanic because it useses all abilities on cooldown.
The only broken thing is the pet mechanic a red/purp mob is strong enough even with modified values to kill somebody, but thats not the issue you have cc right amd could disable it? worong, so when my pet is in CC realease it hit it and recharm it. That is kind of exploiting the system. That makes cc close to useless. Works smae in the other direction, ministrel is under root -release pet and wait till you get hitet.....

Fri 7 Jun 2019 5:40 AM by teiloh

Milchschnidde wrote: ↑
Fri 7 Jun 2019 3:34 AM
The ministrel is allready powerfull, no other assassin or no speed 6 class can ever chase or kill a Ministrel, the purge+ip+sos Combo is also broken , but a fair mechanic because it useses all abilities on cooldown.
The only broken thing is the pet mechanic a red/purp mob is strong enough even with modified values to kill somebody, but thats not the issue you have cc right amd could disable it? worong, so when my pet is in CC realease it hit it and recharm it. That is kind of exploiting the system. That makes cc close to useless. Works smae in the other direction, ministrel is under root -release pet and wait till you get hitet.....

A Skald will walk through a root in less then 5 seconds. They have IP+SOS as well, and can snare from 1500 units. They deal more than twice the DPS of a Minstrel.

Minstrel level 57 pets hit for about as much, or less than, a level 32 spec Hunter pet. They're nerfed beyond trash here.

Fri 7 Jun 2019 5:44 AM by ExcretusMaximus

teiloh wrote: ↑
Fri 7 Jun 2019 5:40 AM
A Skald will walk through a root in less then 5 seconds.

Wild exaggerations do not help your argument.

In order for a root to wear off in under five seconds its duration would have to be 13 seconds at most, and no root in the game is that short, not even that of a tangler.

Fri 7 Jun 2019 8:42 AM by Druth

Bad mechanic, but not an exploit.

Fri 7 Jun 2019 3:53 PM by teiloh

ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Fri 7 Jun 2019 5:44 AM
teiloh wrote: ↑
Fri 7 Jun 2019 5:40 AM
A Skald will walk through a root in less then 5 seconds.

Wild exaggerations do not help your argument.

In order for a root to wear off in under five seconds its duration would have to be 13 seconds at most, and no root in the game is that short, not even that of a tangler.

Best case scenario for the caster, 36-40% resists vs 72 seconds root = 48s
Det 5 = 21s

Then roots also begin to fade after you're below 50% of effective duration

More realistically, you'll be getting hit by lower level AOE roots and will have a bit of AOM as well as caster resists

Fri 7 Jun 2019 6:50 PM by lurker

teiloh wrote: ↑
Fri 7 Jun 2019 3:53 PM
ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Fri 7 Jun 2019 5:44 AM
teiloh wrote: ↑
Fri 7 Jun 2019 5:40 AM
A Skald will walk through a root in less then 5 seconds.

Wild exaggerations do not help your argument.

In order for a root to wear off in under five seconds its duration would have to be 13 seconds at most, and no root in the game is that short, not even that of a tangler.

Best case scenario for the caster, 36-40% resists vs 72 seconds root = 48s
Det 5 = 21s

Then roots also begin to fade after you're below 50% of effective duration

More realistically, you'll be getting hit by lower level AOE roots and will have a bit of AOM as well as caster resists

Just an aside, AoM doesn’t effect CC duration here. Just damage. According to the devs anyhow, who I assume are correct.

For sure most aoe roots will be lower level.

Sat 8 Jun 2019 11:19 PM by Keelia

teiloh wrote: ↑
Thu 6 Jun 2019 1:17 AM
Fooj Fujiyama wrote: ↑
Wed 5 Jun 2019 11:45 PM
Oh so you are really amazing at this game and an uber minstrel, but you would be useless without your insta pet break?

The fact that I repeatedly curb stomp you into the ground bears no relevance to the fact that your "balance" proposals are bad. You're super butthurt about Minstrels breaking CC on themselves because maybe once or twice it helped a Minstrel kill you 1v1. Get over it. A minstrel doesn't do enough damage to matter outside of 1 or 2 v 1/2s and Minstrels pets have already been nerfed to shit on Phoenix, just like all Alb pets.

Your "brilliant" idea just makes Minstrel and Mentalist charm a dogshit version of any summoned or charmed pet.

Alb pet nerfs? You’re crazy animists have been nerfed into the ground. I can’t think of any alb pet nerfs really.

Sun 9 Jun 2019 4:39 AM by teiloh

Keelia wrote: ↑
Sat 8 Jun 2019 11:19 PM
Alb pet nerfs? You’re crazy animists have been nerfed into the ground. I can’t think of any alb pet nerfs really.

https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=9477

Sun 9 Jun 2019 3:26 PM by JimD

teiloh wrote: ↑
Sun 9 Jun 2019 4:39 AM
Keelia wrote: ↑
Sat 8 Jun 2019 11:19 PM
Alb pet nerfs? You’re crazy animists have been nerfed into the ground. I can’t think of any alb pet nerfs really.

https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=9477

you've been done kiddo

Mon 10 Jun 2019 1:04 PM by Keelia

Majority of those changes effect ments as well, as it says charmed pets and not specific to minstrels. So yea you took a hit, but not game breaking.

Mon 10 Jun 2019 6:52 PM by teiloh

Keelia wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Jun 2019 1:04 PM
Majority of those changes effect ments as well, as it says charmed pets and not specific to minstrels. So yea you took a hit, but not game breaking.

Not sure if the damage redux applies to Ments, and they absolutely do gut the ability.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 1:30 PM by Sepplord

teiloh wrote: ↑
Thu 6 Jun 2019 8:07 PM
Fooj Fujiyama wrote: ↑
Thu 6 Jun 2019 8:03 PM
Dude you are such a victim aren't you, the poor minstrels are so gimped here!

1. Minstrels can no longer use charm while stunned/sitting/LOS'd (https://tracker.playphoenix.online/issu ... 71fe38a3ff)
2. Minstrel pets do not gain level difference damage bonus (https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewto ... roy#p45820)
3. Charmed pets have lowered damage scaling (https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewto ... npc#p13105 [1])
4. Charmed pets have lowered swing speed [1]
5. NPCs have lowered swing speed scaling from Qui [1]
6. NPCs have lowered DD damage scaling from Int [1]
7. NPCs have lowered cast speed scaling from Dex [1]
8. NPCs have lowered absorb [1]
9. NPCs have lowered stat-absorb scaling (https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewto ... orb#p55583)
10. Charmed pets do lower damage per swing [1]
11. Many charmed pets are missing critical abilities, especially key Alb pets (https://tracker.playphoenix.online/issu ... f826993edb, https://tracker.playphoenix.online/issu ... ef1e3a06e7, https://tracker.playphoenix.online/issu ... 1860a65c92)
12. Many pets have lower run speed (see: frost stallion, einhorning)
13. Pet DoTs no longer interrupt every tick (patch-notes)
14. Charm duration is lower at 10s vs 11s (https://tracker.playphoenix.online/issu ... 20266c0c64 [2])
15. Charm pulse frequency reduced from every 4.75 seconds to 5.0 seconds [2]
16. Pets are still not doing double hits
17. Charm is capped at 5~ per second
18. Pet charm has absolute level cap

You're the only one crying about the most nerfed class on Phoenix.

most often nerfed and most nerfed are two different things though...
I don'T think minstrels absolutely needs to lose this mechanic, but when i read most nerfed class of phoenix i was expecting more than a list of pet-only-nerfs.
Funnily all those pet-nerfs make using the pet as demezzer stronger...maybe that's the bigger problem to begin with...make pets strong again and see minstrels get hit for 350-400dmg to break their mezz

Wed 12 Jun 2019 11:32 AM by Siouxsie

teiloh wrote: ↑
Thu 6 Jun 2019 8:02 PM
Fooj Fujiyama wrote: ↑
Thu 6 Jun 2019 7:58 PM
We can have a difference of opinions without you guys crying over it. I think that the charm is a very dumb mechanic but if you like it that is your opinion. Like I said though it's no skill so if you enjoy no skill stuff than that's on you end of discussion.

Minstrel charm is literally the most taxing, highest-skill ability in the game and one of the pay-offs is that you get out of a mez or root slightly faster than a Det 5 Skald IF you have your pet next to you at all times instead of sending it to do its job, which is to attack things.

If you wanted to be serious you'd recommend changing it to a perma charm or summon, not make Minstrel charm the most worthless joke ability in the game with an 11th and 12th nerf. Anyone recommending more nerfs to the most nerfed ability on the most nerfed class on Phoenix is probably pissing out of his ass in crying, whining anger.

This thread makes me laugh. Minstrels whining that they can't be more OP because their precious charm which lets them charm *RED PETS* is being "nerfed" (It's not nerfed at all)

As a hunter, let me charm a red pet damn it.. the dog is worthless except for rupting. I would love an icetrider interceptor or a cockatrice. Or charm something that isn't fecking GREEN CON.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 11:55 AM by Sepplord

Siouxsie wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 11:32 AM
teiloh wrote: ↑
Thu 6 Jun 2019 8:02 PM
Fooj Fujiyama wrote: ↑
Thu 6 Jun 2019 7:58 PM
We can have a difference of opinions without you guys crying over it. I think that the charm is a very dumb mechanic but if you like it that is your opinion. Like I said though it's no skill so if you enjoy no skill stuff than that's on you end of discussion.

Minstrel charm is literally the most taxing, highest-skill ability in the game and one of the pay-offs is that you get out of a mez or root slightly faster than a Det 5 Skald IF you have your pet next to you at all times instead of sending it to do its job, which is to attack things.

If you wanted to be serious you'd recommend changing it to a perma charm or summon, not make Minstrel charm the most worthless joke ability in the game with an 11th and 12th nerf. Anyone recommending more nerfs to the most nerfed ability on the most nerfed class on Phoenix is probably pissing out of his ass in crying, whining anger.

This thread makes me laugh. Minstrels whining that they can't be more OP because their precious charm which lets them charm *RED PETS* is being "nerfed" (It's not nerfed at all)

As a hunter, let me charm a red pet damn it.. the dog is worthless except for rupting. I would love an icetrider interceptor or a cockatrice. Or charm something that isn't fecking GREEN CON.

have you played your hunter in the last weeks?
The hunter pet is really strong now and fast too....the days of hunter pets being useless are over

Wed 12 Jun 2019 7:18 PM by teiloh

Siouxsie wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 11:32 AM
This thread makes me laugh. Minstrels whining that they can't be more OP because their precious charm which lets them charm *RED PETS* is being "nerfed" (It's not nerfed at all)

As a hunter, let me charm a red pet damn it.. the dog is worthless except for rupting. I would love an icetrider interceptor or a cockatrice. Or charm something that isn't fecking GREEN CON.

Hunter pets do higher DPS than Minstrel pets on this server, and if you actually read the data you would know this from the 5+ page logs and several bug tracker/feedbacks posted by several players linked here