freedom of speech - Phoenix Freeshard

Hey Guys,

First of all, I have never received another penalty. My account was therefore clean. Yesterday I posted a photo in the Uthgardforum, then I was perma-banned :-) can you imagine that? all my chars were permanently banned (5x50s). Take a look at the photo, was it in your opinion an insult or something similar? I did not write a word about the picture, just posted the picture. I wanted to express with the image that one may have no opinion on Uthgard or criticize something. They did exactly what I expected, even surpassing it! I thought I received a warning. But a Permanentban ????? : D Please do not make the same mistake and forbid your community any opinion. I'm not talking about insults, racism or anything like that. Because I have insulted anyone with my picture.

This Thread:
https://www.uthgard.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=46830

Tue 10 Jul 2018 8:42 AM by aso

that server is a joke haha

Tue 10 Jul 2018 9:03 AM by L0neW0lf

maybe this was just not considered funny

Tue 10 Jul 2018 9:07 AM by Bigga

my intention was certainly a bit sarcastic, but I did not want to offend anyone. The thing is, I think the picture meets those who do not allow criticism. To pronounce a permaban is excessive, you do not mean it

Why can not you talk to the community in a factual dialogue? Why do you have to crush and punish everything with extreme severity? To be honest, they have to write to themselves that the server will soon be history again. Please do not make the same mistake and delete everything (unless there are really insults or racist utterances, something like that does not belong anywhere.) But well-criticized, should not be prohibited

Tue 10 Jul 2018 9:41 AM by

Uthred

I already talked to Bigga on Discord, so I will let you know too. The Phoenix team will not comment on other Freeshards actions. We are focusing on our work which is more than enough to do. As long as you stick to our rules, feel free to discuss in a friendly way this topic. But as soon as it starts getting a Uthgard-Flame-Thread, I will instantly close this thread.

Tue 10 Jul 2018 10:29 AM by Ceen

That's not freedom of speech. Dont hide behind principles of democracy for your flames. Poor behaviour.

Tue 10 Jul 2018 10:35 AM by Der_Eisbaer

Tolerable freedom of speech finds its limits when it comes to clear insults.

Placing the Uthgard headquarter in the centre of the country with the most totalitarian regime in existence today clearly crossed the line at least in my opinion.

Next time state your point clearly and unambiguously which no doubt you are capable of.

Be precise with your speech!

Tue 10 Jul 2018 10:56 AM by Dikson

i see it as actual comfirmation od the uthgard headquartier location and those admins are really are kim chen in like

5 times 50 sad story, but better stop playing there coz this shit have to die already. mindless dictators are not welcome nowhere.

Tue 10 Jul 2018 12:11 PM by aso

how the drive against the wall

https://www.uthgard.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=46879

Tue 10 Jul 2018 12:23 PM by heardstheword

Hey, we're in a new relationship now with Phoenix. Let's talk about how awesome our new fling is rather than dwelling on the old ex.

Tue 10 Jul 2018 1:13 PM by Bigga

heardstheword wrote: ↑
Tue 10 Jul 2018 12:23 PM
Hey, we're in a new relationship now with Phoenix. Let's talk about how awesome our new fling is rather than dwelling on the old ex.

that sounds legit ......

how about that?

is that insulting too?

Tue 10 Jul 2018 1:21 PM by heardstheword

Bigga wrote: ↑
Tue 10 Jul 2018 1:13 PM
heardstheword wrote: ↑
Tue 10 Jul 2018 12:23 PM
Hey, we're in a new relationship now with Phoenix. Let's talk about how awesome our new fling is rather than dwelling on the old ex.

that sounds legit ......

how about that? is that insulting too?

Oh hah, I couldn't care less if people bash Uth. I left there after hitting an XP wall at lvl 44. People were far too picky in the class construction in their groups.

I just figured it's better to be on the 'glass half full'/positivity side rather than the 'half empty'/negativity.

Tue 10 Jul 2018 1:47 PM by Dikson

heardstheword wrote: ↑
Tue 10 Jul 2018 1:21 PM
Bigga wrote: ↑
Tue 10 Jul 2018 1:13 PM
heardstheword wrote: ↑
Tue 10 Jul 2018 12:23 PM
Hey, we're in a new relationship now with Phoenix. Let's talk about how awesome our new fling is rather than dwelling on the old ex.

that sounds legit ......

how about that? is that insulting too?

Oh hah, I couldn't care less if people bash Uth. I left there after hitting an XP wall at lvl 44. People were far too picky in the class construction in their groups.

I just figured it's better to be on the 'glass half full'/positivity side rather than the 'half empty'/negativity.

God Damed stop it

Rofl as hell

Tue 10 Jul 2018 1:51 PM by heardstheword

-__-

Tue 10 Jul 2018 2:17 PM by Pao

They delete the posts they dont like sometimes.

On the off-topic section I made this joke during my last business trip to china:

Uthgard is not blocked in China.
Maybe Uthgard is China.
Same censorship and only change every 5 years.

To be fair they make the rules and its fine. Its a great server and their goal is to be a real 1.65 experience as it was in 2002.
Nobody should shit over this project. Its a lot of work to keep a punch of nerds in check.

Tue 10 Jul 2018 2:51 PM by Brokenstring

I think they are getting more and more desperate over there as they see the writing on the wall and the light at the end of the tunnel, and it's called Phoenix. They finally now know they were wrong all along (only mindless dogmatic minds would take so long to realize this).

They deleted a post of mine as well, that was not malicious or inflammatory, just simply critical of them and less harsh than I had been in the past, and that was the first time I ever had any posts of mine deleted.

Deleting a dedicated player to your server (5 50s is massive dedication) is just bone headed to do, especially when it was just ONE post that, in their opinion, was in poor taste. Don't sweat it man, that ship is sinking fast over there, you lost nothing IMO at this point.

Tue 10 Jul 2018 3:50 PM by Twizzy

aso wrote: ↑
Tue 10 Jul 2018 12:11 PM
how the drive against the wall

https://www.uthgard.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=46879

I love that condescending rule. I get it - the golden rule. But its so subjective to the authority. But I totally get it. Respect the creators. They work their ass off to make the server a reality.

Tue 10 Jul 2018 8:37 PM by Budikah

In my time on Uth, if you recognize my name, you'd probably have read some of my critical posts/rants that were directed their way.

Many a time I had things deleted, edited, or received a rather pathetic PM from somebody asking me to "cool it down" - while largely continuing to ignore everything anybody said. I'd rather they just slapped me with whatever punishment they felt comfortable with rather than beating around the bush. I feel like many of their issues stemmed from a lack of having anybody forward enough with a strong enough presence to just spell out how things were going to be. It felt like they wanted their cake (a desperate for Classic DAoC population) and eat it too (their server settings that people took issue with). Stating something with concrete finality would cause many of those people to walk away prematurely, so I feel like they just rode the line of ambiguity and hope as long as possible.

Without a doubt, a pillar of Uthgard is control of their player base and the conversations within. They had staff members sitting around gleefully waiting to pounce on people having a good time by going out of line and using the wrong chat channel - as if polluting screen space with people socializing in an MMO was some sort of horrible offense.

THAT SAID...

Too many assholes use "freedom of speech" to act like... assholes. They know they're pushing a line. Their point isn't anything valuable or intellectual, it's not an expression of ideas or a criticism - it's just them being an inflammatory ass because they want to be - and then citing "freedom of speech" to play some sort of victim.

It's bullshit.

You wouldn't go into a bar, and then make memes at the bar degrading the bar owner/staff/company and then show it to them and expect a good response, would you?

Then what do you expect when you go to a forum, website, and game server that somebody else created, shit on them and their work?

There are many times that Uthgard went ahead and crushed valid criticisms or posts that hit a little too close to home - censorship. You do not have "freedom of speech" on a private internet forum hosted and paid for by the people you are insulting.

Also, good on Phoenix staff for not bothering to comment. Truly no need to take the low road when your work on this server will deal a harsher blow than any forum warrior wordplay will.

Tue 10 Jul 2018 8:52 PM by Brokenstring

I saw they banned Vadox within the last day or two. Because he 'asked for it'. He was basically the only leader left on Midgard NA. So bye bye NA Midgard now. That's pretty desperate on their part...

Also, hello Budikah. Glad to see your name around here. You may remember me (Severian).

Wed 11 Jul 2018 6:27 AM by Ceen

Bigga had multiple offenses and not one like he writes here.

People tell you 10 % of the story.
I'm glad the staff on Phoenix seems to be strict as well.

Wed 11 Jul 2018 7:13 AM by Tree

The way Uthgard deals with criticism, even constructive one, bothers me too. I have been rather vocal about considering small meaningful changes in the past, even though I believe my posts were rather well thought out, mostly offering constructive ideas or courses of action. Some, mostly those that were in some way polemic and funny got deleted in the past. Nowadays the majority of my posts gets deleted over there as soon as any form criticism is included.

Its all rather sad really, Uthgard started totally great, with launch they had a mostly stable high quality server. They could have succeeded in the long run, if only they had implemented some small changes a lot of people asked for. Namely XP, QOL and maybe RvR alternatives for off-hours (e.g. kill tasks)
Instead they ignored, censored and sometimes ridiculed their community. Well typical IT cracks over there, great coding skills, no social skills.

Wed 11 Jul 2018 7:52 AM by sebbo

They had QoL, Killtasks and such. Made bad experience from that on v1, removed it for v2. Players own fault tbh.

B2T: Gotta be pretty immature to consider this "funny".

Wed 11 Jul 2018 10:06 AM by aso

Tree wrote: ↑
Wed 11 Jul 2018 7:13 AM
Well typical IT cracks over there, great coding skills, no social skills.

100% true hahaha

Wed 11 Jul 2018 12:31 PM by Pao

Tree wrote: ↑
Wed 11 Jul 2018 7:13 AM
Well typical IT cracks over there, great coding skills, no social skills.

This! Some answers are straight Asperger like.
Things like killing 100mobs for getting the accurate drops rate of a lvl 20 killtask blows my mind.

Staff said If you don't like it don't play here... Well guess whats happening.

Wed 11 Jul 2018 1:23 PM by Tree

Best one for me was the staff response:
We dont implement /XP off, because its way too funny to invisibly stand beside a player and watch him suicide his character for half an hour.

Yeah great response, I am sure the player is having at least as much fun spending his evening this way.

The "If you dont like it, leave" mentality is whats killing Uthgard. Because people actually leave in response of their shitty attitude and unwilligness to listen to reason.

Wed 11 Jul 2018 2:28 PM by Brokenstring

It's worse than lack of social skills. They have a dogmatic mindset that their way is the best and brightest, despite increasing evidence to the contrary.

That's called dogmatism. And now Uthgard will die because of it.

Wed 11 Jul 2018 2:42 PM by Ceen

Why so mad, they offer a free opportunity to play DAoC in a classic way. They claimed their vision from the very beginning and yet you complain about it.
It's not like they forced you to play a game or changed the setting.

Wed 11 Jul 2018 2:43 PM by Pao

Ceen wrote: ↑
Wed 11 Jul 2018 2:42 PM
Why so mad, they offer a free opportunity to play DAoC in a classic way. They claimed their vision from the very beginning and yet you complain about it.
It's not like they forced you to play a game or changed the setting.

Nobody is mad. Its just sad.

Wed 11 Jul 2018 4:04 PM by Tyton

Pao wrote: ↑
Wed 11 Jul 2018 2:43 PM
Ceen wrote: ↑
Wed 11 Jul 2018 2:42 PM
Why so mad, they offer a free opportunity to play DAoC in a classic way. They claimed their vision from the very beginning and yet you complain about it.
It's not like they forced you to play a game or changed the setting.

Nobody is mad. Its just sad.

Yeah, more disappointing/sad than anything because many of us know what it "could" have been.

Wed 11 Jul 2018 7:03 PM by Seigmoraig

Tyton wrote: ↑
Wed 11 Jul 2018 4:04 PM
Pao wrote: ↑
Wed 11 Jul 2018 2:43 PM
Ceen wrote: ↑
Wed 11 Jul 2018 2:42 PM
Why so mad, they offer a free opportunity to play DAoC in a classic way. They claimed their vision from the very beginning and yet you complain about it.
It's not like they forced you to play a game or changed the setting.

Nobody is mad. Its just sad.

Yeah, more disappointing/sad than anything because many of us know what it "could" have been.

Exactly this, for a server that started with 4k population at launch that is down to under 500, it could have been much better if the devs didn't antagonize the playerbase

Wed 11 Jul 2018 7:37 PM by Pao

It hurts ...

Never seen anyone ignoring so many people of a community over years.

2012 - 2018
End of UTH1 was already a big discussion about QOL. Because they downpatch potions with less charges.
During Revamp many posts about QOL - no reaction.
Launch - people were amazed how many people want to play classic Daoc.
Shortly after the drop down to 2,5k lots of QOL discussion. Always if you dont like dont play.
Nothing was done for a year then FZ exp, BG change, keep rps and overcap bonus. Just hidden in news no landing page info, nothing.

My turning point was when Trishin wrote they dont care about population. Even when just 300ppl play their vision its fine. Then I knew Uthgard was gone.
Hope they keep online as a museum to visit sometime. /salut

Wed 11 Jul 2018 8:06 PM by Brokenstring

Good summation there. If they had the mindset that Phoenix is showing back in Uthgard beta in 2016, and made changes then, I bet at this point there still would be thousands logging in each night both EU and NA.

I was shocked myself at the desire for a classic minded DAoC server. It was 6k at the end of January trying to log into that server. Reality set in quick though for most of the players that didn't follow the beta and didn't realize how much of a museum Uthgard was going to be. How hardcore, how much lack of QoL. How the design essentially griefed players just by sheer outdatedness of DAoC's PvE and transportation. Coupled with the sadistic nature of some of the developers (enjoying watching player's suicide to lose XP). It's no surprise it's nearly dead now.

Wed 11 Jul 2018 8:32 PM by heardstheword

Seigmoraig wrote: ↑
Wed 11 Jul 2018 7:03 PM
Exactly this, for a server that started with 4k population at launch that is down to under 500, it could have been much better if the devs didn't antagonize the playerbase

Also, let's be real, the Nostalgia wore off pretty quickly after people realized it was a major grind fest. A lot of the people that picked it up couldn't afford to put in the time required to get anywhere on that server. There's a big discrepancy between fun and work. Uthgard made leveling work rather than enjoyable.

So far I enjoy the balance in Phoenix. It's not too fast to be done in a day, but it also won't take me 2 weeks of in-game time.

Tue 17 Jul 2018 5:03 PM by Sethor

In my opinion, the picture clearly violate the Uthgard rules. It's defamatory and insulting to be compared with a totalitarian regime that is known for it anti-democratic ways, torture, oppression, <insert any totalitarian regime trait here>. On the other hand, I consider the staff's reaction too strong. A forum plus account ban is a bit off, but it also depends if you have a history of violation on the Uthgard forums.

On the matter of QoL changes and Uthgard Staffs way of handling community questions & requests as well as the current project organization, I was quite shocked to experience the given situation. Uthgard always shined when strong characters were able to argumentatively counter the Uthgard leads somewhat twisted idea of DAoC.

Tue 17 Jul 2018 5:15 PM by jkpix

there are limitations to freedom of speech and "having an opinion" as you called it. defamation is certainly one limitation. unless youre 16 its rather sad than funny.

Tue 17 Jul 2018 5:22 PM by heardstheword

jkpix wrote: ↑
Tue 17 Jul 2018 5:15 PM
there are limitations to freedom of speech and "having an opinion" as you called it. defamation is certainly one limitation. unless youre 16 its rather sad than funny.

Some adults just never grow out of it. You'd be surprised by how many people just don't pick up on social cues or norms. I forget who is credited for this quote, but it's valid; "it's not what you say; it's how you say it that matters."

You can have a valid opinion/suggestion while being an asshole. Those are not mutually exclusive. It's difficult for some people to maintain a civil discussion with someone of differing opinions without it devolving into some sort of shouting match. A disagreement is not an attack.

Mon 23 Jul 2018 9:56 AM by Chaskha

How do we know the in-game behaviour/action of the banned people?
The ban may as well be legit and we all discuss that picture instead which may just be a distraction?
Uthgard are stuck-up with their rules, it is very unfortunate and it is well known but a permaban for just a stupid picture (also permabanning is validating the picture meme) ? I don't think Uthgards are plain stupid. They are strict, too strict but not stupid (IMHO).

Tue 24 Jul 2018 3:30 PM by HectorTheHeckler

[.......]
*Welcome to Phoenix. I edited your post for insulting Uthgard staff and people in general. Try to discuss things without insulting. It is so much more fun. Greetings, Uthred (Phoenix Staff).*

Tue 24 Jul 2018 3:52 PM by Seigmoraig

Free speech is the liberty to say what you want.
Free speech does not give immunity to the consequences of the things you say.

If a private company does not agree or is offended by what you say and kindly asks you to f off they are 100% allowed to do that.

Wed 25 Jul 2018 6:54 PM by Brokenstring

If the consequence is being thrown in jail by a political opponent, then yes it does. BUT freedom of speech isn't without some very limited borders. Like credible physical threats of injury.

Thu 26 Jul 2018 2:45 PM by Horus

Thu 26 Jul 2018 8:18 PM by Numatic

Horus wrote: ↑
Thu 26 Jul 2018 2:45 PM

This exactly. This is a private forum. You don't have a right of free speech to be heard here. The mods can ban you for whatever reason they deemed fit. HOWEVER the community can respond with consequences to those decisions as well, such as what happened over on Uthgard.

Think of it like a job. They can fire you without a reason. But if you constantly fire people, eventually noone is going to want to work for you. That is the consequences to their actions.

Fri 27 Jul 2018 12:16 PM by heardstheword

Numatic wrote: ↑
Thu 26 Jul 2018 8:18 PM
Think of it like a job. They can fire you without a reason. But if you constantly fire people, eventually noone is going to want to work for you. That is the consequences to their actions.

Pretty solid analogy. Fine line to walk between friendly police and dictator.

Fri 27 Jul 2018 2:04 PM by Horus

I admit that meme is a bit harsh...I believe in conversation, debate, exchanging of ideas, even the random venting...

I think it is a bit unsavory if someone gets banned/blocked/deleted for voicing opinions just because they may be disagreed with...so I do agree it is best to be tread lightly in that regard....but it is not a "right" to say whatever you want in any manner you want on a private forum.

Fri 27 Jul 2018 2:36 PM by Chaskha

This meme however is twisting the truth. If you wanna voice an opinion that is supported by x% of a population and yet (100-x)% disagree and show you the door, it just means (100-x) has currently more power than x.

Jumping to the conclusion no one want to hear your opinion is actually false and obviously tyranical.

Yes free speech is all about protecting the voice if the people you disagree with. You can of course always demonstrate they are wrong, or temper their ideas and so on, that leads normally to communication and progress.

Fri 27 Jul 2018 2:49 PM by relvinian

I had an issue where I used the word dick in advice chat. There was a person named testacles asking questions and I said don't be a dick as a joke to respond to it.

And another person made some other comment and I responded. Ended up getting warned and told to read the rules. Also I understand the guy got his name changed.

I don't have any problem with constant f bombs and n word and god knows what else being jumped all over. But I do wonder what is the line? I saw references to genitals in the rules whatever. Can you use the word wuss? Maybe not pussy. But wussy? There are a lot of words for penis.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=GiWQZhUmmRw

I just wonder how salty we can be. I'm 50 in a few months and spent a huge part of my life as a soldier.

My thought is there is a filter and there is /ignore. I personally feel that the server should be considered pg13. Parents strongly cautioned.

Here is an example of pg 13 which Austin powers was:

PG-13 (parental guidance-13): Some material may not be suitable for children under 13. Any nudity has to be nonsexual, and any swear words have to be used sparingly. Violence in PG-13 films may be intense, but must be bloodless.

Here is Rated R:

R (restricted): No one under 17 admitted without an accompanying parent or guardian. This rating is given for frequent strong language and violence, nudity for sexual purposes, and drug abuse.

I think personally the entire Austin powers clip I played should be ok on a server with the average age of players probably hovering near the 30 mark. I think anyone who lets their kids play on this server, let alone use the internet without supervision is a feckless idiot. I don't think we should have to hear F bombs continuously, the C word, two people cybering explicitly, but I think a little banter once in awhile in the advice channel would be ok. Frankly welcome.

So what about it? Am I right, or am I just being a Dick?

Fri 27 Jul 2018 11:35 PM by Quik

I have no issues with using language in advice because we do have the chat filter.

I DO have an issue where people deliberately misspell words to bypass said filter.

So while I think you should be able to say dick or ass, I also feel bypassing the chat filter should be a ban for 24 hours or something since people do let their children play the game and do not monitor it every second. We shouldn't have to, people should be able to be semi respectful of others wanting to play the game in a fun atmosphere.

Now having said that, guild chat or BG or any group that is made should not follow these rules as that is a private group and should have an expectation of privacy.

Lastly, a /tell using swear words should be a ban also for harassment.

Thu 2 Aug 2018 9:10 PM by rubaduck

I like freedom of speech, and it is a simple law that is a staple in my every day, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't come with consequences. Freedom of speech is not the freedom to say what you want, it is the freedom to not be persecuted by a government for your statements. However it is limited to not include racism, incitement, hate speech, sedation, or anything that may cause harm to others (from a philosophical point of view).

I wouldn't bat an eye over what you've posted, but it is a bit over the line as you're including a country that is suffering from lack of free speech (and I know that is the sarcasm) where people die for not having that right today.

Again, freedom of speech has consequences, and is a double edged sword.

Fri 3 Aug 2018 1:45 AM by Hanshi

censorship .. yeah, you dont have to listen, you dont have to share. But it doesnt mean i cant say. tHIS SERVER SO FAR HASNT DONE ANYTHING TO ENAMOR ME. Its in beta but i see bias already. Uthgard is mid bias..this server is alb bias.. oh well back to ywain and the cheaters.. at least there i know what to expect

Fri 3 Aug 2018 7:28 AM by aso

relvinian wrote: ↑
Fri 27 Jul 2018 2:49 PM
as a joke to respond to it.

uuhhh, jokes on uthgard are very dangerous

Fri 3 Aug 2018 6:04 PM by Windhand

Hanshi wrote: ↑
Fri 3 Aug 2018 1:45 AM
censorship .. yeah, you dont have to listen, you dont have to share. But it doesnt mean i cant say. tHIS SERVER SO FAR HASNT DONE ANYTHING TO ENAMOR ME. Its in beta but i see bias already. Uthgard is mid bias..this server is alb bias.. oh well back to ywain and the cheaters.. at least there i know what to expect

Anything more than an accusation to back that up?

I can confidently say that we have staff who play every realm. All of our opinions are heard. Why would I accept my fellow staff members bias towards a particular realm?

I wouldn't. None of us would. No realm is receiving special treatment, and if you think they are, something more specific would be appreciated.

Quik wrote: I have no issues with using language in advice because we do have the chat filter.

I DO have an issue where people deliberately misspell words to bypass said filter.

So while I think you should be able to say dick or ass, I also feel bypassing the chat filter should be a ban for 24 hours or something since people do let their children play the game and do not monitor it every second. We shouldn't have to, people should be able to be semi respectful of others wanting to play the game in a fun atmosphere.

Now having said that, guild chat or BG or any group that is made should not follow these rules as that is a private group and should have an expectation of privacy.

Lastly, a /tell using swear words should be a ban also for harassment.

Deliberately bypassing the filter isn't okay.

If somebody is harassing you via /tell messages, use the ignore function and if they circumvent that, please contact a GM.

Fri 3 Aug 2018 7:03 PM by Hanshi

Yes the old arguement ..prove it.. well it shows when ya play the game. Maybe because its beta..things get off balanced. I know a lot things yet to be addressed.. but my opinion still stands.

Fri 3 Aug 2018 7:08 PM by Hanshi

As for having staff that play ever realm ..Means notta dang thing. I have toons all realms so therefore by YOUR def im correct.

Fri 3 Aug 2018 7:17 PM by Hanshi

Something more specific.. ok ya see a mid or alb cheating..not running a bot.. we have to present screenshots videos etc.. you cud just look at combat log.. i do my part by trying to report these offenders and as a result im treated as the offender. I shud not get 3rd degree.. being told to Calm down. Is it my responsibilty to record every pvp engagement? I realize you folks have hands full but really?.. i try to do my part. And getting back to original post..its ok to use alcohol and murder folks..just keep lang clean?

Fri 3 Aug 2018 7:30 PM by Quik

Hanshi wrote: ↑
Fri 3 Aug 2018 7:17 PM
Something more specific.. ok ya see a mid or alb cheating..not running a bot.. we have to present screenshots videos etc.. you cud just look at combat log.. i do my part by trying to report these offenders and as a result im treated as the offender. I shud not get 3rd degree.. being told to Calm down. Is it my responsibilty to record every pvp engagement? I realize you folks have hands full but really?.. i try to do my part. And getting back to original post..its ok to use alcohol and murder folks..just keep lang clean?

Can you use alcohol and murder in the game? Nope.

There is NO REASON to ever use language in the game technically. Yep you are totally within your right but you never NEED to.

Do I care if people use bad language? Do I care of people whine? No, simply because I can use the filter to avoid one and ignore to fix the other.

My issue is with people who DELIBERATELY space out letters S H I T to bypass the filter. There is NEVER a reason for it and it should have some type of simple punishment. Ban from chat or something I don't care. Is it a big deal? No. Is it circumventing the rules? Yes.

Right now dev's are working on fixing the game because it is BETA. People are using radar and using exploits and hacks and some are getting caught but most probably aren't. It is beta.

After the server goes live I am guessing the dev's will have a lot more time to look into things like this. Not sure how many times I was in the most remote part of Callory and the same mid group just happened to run to that area and find me. Chance or radar only they know. When it goes live I might mention it in discord and if the dev's want they can watch and see what happens.

Right now just play and enjoy and report bugs.

Fri 3 Aug 2018 7:54 PM by Windhand

If you legitimately suspect somebody of foul play, please do report them. Rules are in full affect for beta. If you are radaring during beta, you won't be here for launch.

As for the other stuff - screenshots and videos do help. Not everything is going to be explicitly obvious in logs. Reports without supporting evidence are still being investigated.

Also, "prove it" isn't an old argument - it's how the world generally works. Science. Law. Pretty much everything relies on somebody having to present some sort of evidence or specific complaint to be taken into serious consideration by peers.

Fri 3 Aug 2018 8:03 PM by Quik

Windhand wrote: ↑
Fri 3 Aug 2018 7:54 PM
If you legitimately suspect somebody of foul play, please do report them. Rules are in full affect for beta. If you are radaring during beta, you won't be here for launch.

As for the other stuff - screenshots and videos do help. Not everything is going to be explicitly obvious in logs. Reports without supporting evidence are still being investigated.

Also, "prove it" isn't an old argument - it's how the world generally works. Science. Law. Pretty much everything relies on somebody having to present some sort of evidence or specific complaint to be taken into serious consideration by peers.

What's to stop me from jumping on my mid and just throwing accusations that you were using a hack?

A full group running around at lvl 20 running around getting wiped by another realm tends to piss them off even though it is within the rules. What is to stop all 8 of them to scream the high group was cheating or using radar? Especially once they say it in /region and now others are saying just because someone else did. Happens ALL THE TIME. Prove it is the only fair way albeit sometimes irritating way.

The ONLY fair way is for the GM to see it happen.

Sun 5 Aug 2018 4:04 PM by relvinian

BTW I tested filter on lfg using the f bomb a few times.

Was strongly warned by tristann. I'm not saying anything negative about him but the purpose of filter is to block common words.

If it is enable by default and you can see the words, whose fault is that?

Now if you go around the filter, etc, then that is another thing.

Wed 8 Aug 2018 10:16 AM by Chaskha

F & N words ...
I get it for N as it bring some hainous past and some DAoC folks let their kids play and may sometimes forget they cancelled the filters, you want people to be cautious even if they mean no harms as it's really not possible to know if someone joke or is a racist idiot.

Now the F word this is just obedience to the rise of puritanism ... Kids preservation? They prolly heard way worse at school or in the family or in a song. It is plain hypocrisy and speech police winning over free speech. I do accept the rule just because I like the server and don't want a ban over a stupid word I barely use anyway but this is, for me, a step beyond prevention of hatred in all its forms.

Tue 21 Aug 2018 12:40 PM by relvinian

Just in general im going to ask why people lock so many posts on here before actual discussion occurs.

Don't like the way someone phrases things?

For example I made a joke about hib overlords but the thread was legit. We never got to discuss it but there is an imbalance in the realms, how do you solve them?

With rps for keep takes and xp bonuses for /realm shrooms will make a difference and hibs will dominate.

That is my prediction. And so my question is if everyone gets xp bonus based on who dominates and if alb and hib tend to be more populated,

How will mid fare? Stuff like that. What about formula for xp bonus based on pop etc. etc.

Imbalance now is one thing but when you can't change realms or when one side has 600 more people on it or way better xp bonus plus df all the time?

Should we wait until live version when that stuff is going on to begin a discussion?

But meanwhile, that thread got locked. I would hate to start another one. I'm trying to be non toxic and helpful, im just a little bit of a crusty middle aged guy who yells at kids to get off his lawn.

Which brings us back to locking threads. Instead of nuking everything, just try let people use words and discuss stuff.

BTW, even if I yelled at kids to get off my lawn and they yelled back that would be ok. I want to speak myself and not silence anyone else.

Tue 21 Aug 2018 1:57 PM by

Uthred

I locked the thread because how you started it would have lead to nothing but flames and insults. If you would have started it like you wrote in this post, then I wouldnt have locked the thread.

Tue 21 Aug 2018 2:03 PM by heardstheword

relvinian wrote: ↑
Tue 21 Aug 2018 12:40 PM
Just in general im going to ask why people lock so many posts on here before actual discussion occurs.

This can be answered with the quote "it's not what you say, it's how you say it".

If posts are worded less antagonistic, they will tend to stay. When people word their posts with aggression, mods will be more likely to keep the peace and stomp the fires before they get out of hand.

Inciting a riot is actually a crime in the U.S.

Tue 21 Aug 2018 2:37 PM by relvinian

heardstheword wrote: ↑
Tue 21 Aug 2018 2:03 PM
relvinian wrote: ↑
Tue 21 Aug 2018 12:40 PM
Just in general im going to ask why people lock so many posts on here before actual discussion occurs.

This can be answered with the quote "it's not what you say, it's how you say it".

If posts are worded less antagonistic, they will tend to stay. When people word their posts with aggression, mods will be more likely to keep the peace and stomp the fires before they get out of hand.

Inciting a riot is actually a crime in the U.S.

No that's thought police. That is freedom of speech if you use the right words.

If I was cursing or insulting someone or anything like that, then sure. Otherwise we are just talking about which approved words we can use, what context we can use, and then where are we?

Tue 21 Aug 2018 2:53 PM by sebbo

relvinian wrote: ↑
Tue 21 Aug 2018 12:40 PM
Just in general im going to ask why people lock so many posts on here before actual discussion occurs.

You just dont learn from what happened in your threads all amongst the forums, no matter if uth, genesis or even here. Thats the point.

Tue 21 Aug 2018 2:56 PM by heardstheword

I didn't say you. I kept it vague for a reason. You are assuming yourself.

The purpose of forums is to keep things on topic. Don't go into a stealth thread and talk about Wizard Bolts. Don't go into any thread and insult someone for just having a differing opinion from yours.

I'm not saying any of this happened, but every locked thread I've seen has a justification from a dev/GM that is well within reason.

I'd say 90% of the locked threads I've seen have been locked because the question was answered and the discussion has nothing to do with the thread anymore. A new thread should be made for a new discussion.

Tue 21 Aug 2018 3:45 PM by relvinian

sebbo wrote: ↑
Tue 21 Aug 2018 2:53 PM
relvinian wrote: ↑
Tue 21 Aug 2018 12:40 PM
Just in general im going to ask why people lock so many posts on here before actual discussion occurs.

You just dont learn from what happened in your threads all amongst the forums, no matter if uth, genesis or even here. Thats the point.

I learned from others and I assume, once in awhile, some learn from me. That is the circle of life isn't it?

Wed 22 Aug 2018 7:20 AM by Druth

Freedom of speech...

It protects your right in public, it does not mean you can walk into someones home and start yelling at them, nor can you walk into a company's building and do the same. You are allowed to stand outside said building and have signs/posters, although you do risk lawsuit for slander if you can't back up your claims.
Internet forums are just that, either they are privately owned, or owned by a company, and that means they do not violate your rights if they kick you out when you don't comply to their rules.

Freedom of speech does allow you to create your own forum and write whatever offensive (as long as you don't incite violence) things you want.
So if you want to exercise freedom of speech, create a forum/blog and run amock.

And please... stop trying to portray your battle as you standing on Tiananmen Square facing a tank.

Tue 28 Aug 2018 9:50 PM by relvinian

I don't buy coffee from Starbucks because their coffee is too expensive and I don't like their politics.

Thu 30 Aug 2018 3:04 PM by [email protected]

Hell, Trump is trying to fix this mess, but NK/Uthgard is pretty Messed up and if you say anything critical they put you and your family in the gulags.

Maybe Trump needs to put the military exercises back in place to send a message. I saw their army was down to 71 last night, so I'm certain death to that server is near.

Thu 30 Aug 2018 4:13 PM by relvinian

My own post was too weird for even me.

Taxation without representation and people revolt.

Wed 5 Sep 2018 11:41 PM by jhaerik

I'm still waiting for a net bill of rights. I see it happening in the next decade.

If you want your website to be visible in the US then you have to accept the opinions of others you don't agree with. Don't like it? Too bad... go elsewhere.

Might get rid of some of the companies banning anyone without their own leftwing screwball "accept that there are 411 genders because I say so" beliefs.

Riot games is a good example. 10 topics about how great pot is at any time.
I made a pro tobacco company post and got banned for 2 weeks.

Thu 6 Sep 2018 7:23 AM by

Uthred

I guess everything has been said so far. Locked.