PvE Exploration Incentive: Extreme Camp Bonus

Started 30 Jul 2018
by schreon
in Suggestions
Hi,

Due to collectable XP loot, people are all farming the same mobs at the same spots over and over again. As these spots are scattered all over classic and SI, we got a nice incentive to travel the world more instead of sticking to the same dungeons all the time. While this is a step into a very nice direciton, the vast majority of the classic PvE zones are still mostly dead. There are lots of mobs which are costing server CPU cycles and bandwidth (when someone runs by) but are probably never going to be killed.

At the same time, for some (many?) people, pulling the same mobs at the same spot over and over again can get quite boring. For those people it would be much more fun to roam the maps, explore and kill mobs on the go. However, staying at one spot with a good respawn rate is so much more efficient than roaming and the risk running around not finding adequate mobs is so high, that nobody is actually doing it.

Obviously, Mythic had been aware of this back then already, so they introduced the concept of camp bonus. However, the camp bonus is so small, it cannot compensate the loss of XP efficiency when roaming instead of stationary spot grinding.

But I think this can be fixed by modifying the camp bonus settings (maybe this even does not require programming any new logic):

- Increase the maximum camp bonus massively
- Make the camp bonus replenishment rate much slower
- Make camp bonus decay when a mob is killed much faster

The result would be that a mob which has not been touched in weeks will give as much XP as a whole group of mobs. However, that camp bonus vanishes very fast, so it is not worth it to stay at a location for much longer than the duration of a single camp fire. The camp bonus takes very long to recover, so it is encouraged to boldly go where no one has gone before ... or at least not in a long time (like many days or few weeks). The total leveling speed of roaming would be approximately the same as stationary XP loot grind, as there will always be gaps between mobs, sometimes mobs are scarce, sometimes it takes a little longer to find the next mob with an adequate level, etc.

The result would (hopefully) be that people who like a bit of variety can do so without drawbacks while XP for "classic" stationary grinders remains untouched. At the same time the world would be much more alive as there will be exploring adventurers everywhere.

With extra scripting effort, this could be extended even further: Maybe the camp bonus % could be translated directly into a drop chance for some extra phoenix feathers (independent from mob level). In the very long run, when most players have all their characters leveled up to 50 already, the world will not die out: there is still a reason to roam all maps on all levels. Of course, the amount of feathers gained that way should be small enough so it is still worth to battle high end mobs and bosses, but still high enough to encourage some players to keep roaming the PvE content. Alternatively, some reward other than feathers could be used here (like item skins etc).

Thanks for reading!
Mon 30 Jul 2018 2:22 AM by Ganaka
Great ideas. Moving the XP items to remote locations would also force people to scatter.
Mon 30 Jul 2018 6:10 AM by Galahad
Interesting ideas for sure. We'll have to discuss this.

However, here is an interesting example of a run-in I had the other day that should highlight an issue with this:

Albion, Lyonesse, a calm morning - no cloud in the sky. Suddenly, a big noise arises - people screaming and shouting, but it is difficult to understand what the cause of their dispute was. So I cautiously approach, prepared for a sight too horrible to put in words... The tention feels like electricity in the air!

So, what happened then? People were camping the good ol' gobo spot near the dunters and were pulling from each others camps. Because, you know, it the BEST SPOT!!!

A friendly reminder that we have 3-4 other equally viable spots just a few meters down the road produced a blank stare.

So, if people have such rigid preconceptions, a lack of willingness to re-learn the maps for our server and can't be arsed to walk 1min to another spot, I have my doubts that adding such a system will really be used
Mon 30 Jul 2018 7:11 AM by Frigzy
Great idea. I like it. I was thinking of a camp bonus mechanic as well, but I won't derail this thread for it.
Thu 2 Aug 2018 6:11 PM by Isavyr
Galahad wrote:
Mon 30 Jul 2018 6:10 AM
So, if people have such rigid preconceptions, a lack of willingness to re-learn the maps for our server and can't be arsed to walk 1min to another spot, I have my doubts that adding such a system will really be used

Conversely, without an incentive to explore different camps, people won't wish to explore, either. The point goes both ways. At any rate, there's a segment that will use it, and a segment that will not. For those setups that rely on camp of uberClusteredEnemies1, their behavior is unlikely to change. However, for the other groups, which encompasses most the realm, they will be more likely to wander. This sounds like a vast improvement in terms of excitement--change in scenery, change in mobs. With correctly tuned camp bonus, I cannot see downside.
Thu 2 Aug 2018 7:26 PM by Armsmancer
Maybe set it for SI only then, there's huge vast amounts of areas and mobs untouched aside from at the very beginning levelling, and at the very end to get those last few killtask items. I never see lv 20-45 groups anywhere in SI with the 30% bonuses and tinder drops in FZ, even with ganking its still far superior rate of XP, and it would be a definite concern of mine around launch time to have just the few popular spots now when the rush of exp'ers shows up to the 1-4 spots in the zone that are good. SI outside zones are an untapped resource in many regards on all realms in my experience.

Maybe just adding redundant killtask items by building more of them in SI zones would also alleviate showing up to a camp and its already camped heavily, especially in HIB when you show up and there's dozens of shrooms around and you can't even solo pull because they'll attack your pull. With the huge SI zones we can spread this out a lot better just by killtask, or Extreme Kill Task or whatever from SI mobs perhaps.
Fri 3 Aug 2018 1:18 AM by bamf
Remove frontier zones and open world RvR ruleset. People will roam to the most outskirts to avoid getting ganked. Best part of Mordred
Fri 3 Aug 2018 6:48 AM by schreon
bamf wrote:
Fri 3 Aug 2018 1:18 AM
Remove frontier zones and open world RvR ruleset. People will roam to the most outskirts to avoid getting ganked. Best part of Mordred

That's a quite negative incentive which is barely suitable for casual players. It is not about forcing people to roam the outskirts. It is about making it viable, so people can get a bit more immersion and variety out of good old DAoC.

Also, people who like the stationary spot grind should be able to still do so!
Fri 3 Aug 2018 6:19 PM by megatron
How about a special camp Super-Bonus that is applied to a different 45+ camp every day or whatever time interval you want (every 3 hours ect.).
Fri 3 Aug 2018 10:46 PM by bamf
megatron wrote:
Fri 3 Aug 2018 6:19 PM
How about a special camp Super-Bonus that is applied to a different 45+ camp every day or whatever time interval you want (every 3 hours ect.).

You have same issue as op...people all stacked in one spot
Sun 5 Aug 2018 1:20 PM by Laadna
Galahad wrote:
Mon 30 Jul 2018 6:10 AM
So, if people have such rigid preconceptions, a lack of willingness to re-learn the maps for our server and can't be arsed to walk 1min to another spot, I have my doubts that adding such a system will really be used
You do not know that, it is just an opinion. Besides, what is proposed here (incentive for roaming) do not really apply to full groups (as it is quite difficult to make 7 people to move elsewhere : inertia, risks of someone getting lost, body-pulling mobs along the way...). It is more intended and designed for solo and small parties (if I understood correctly).
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