lourock wrote: ↑Wed 20 Mar 2019 9:30 PMAll archers really need IMHO is for MOS to work correctly. They have the same issue here as on live, the detection is ass backwards. Sins seeing archers from stealth way before an archer can react is not a good thing. Sins are top of the food chain here just as they were on live they need some natural predators.
lourock wrote: ↑Wed 20 Mar 2019 10:16 PMIf they made MOS a purchased RA again instead of baking it in to stealth spec and added back the stealth detection. Then give back camo and make work against MOS as it was back on live 2011 it would be balanced. Never played the game in an era where it was more balanced between archer sin then that time right before broadsword.
Riac wrote: ↑Wed 20 Mar 2019 10:19 PMlourock wrote: ↑Wed 20 Mar 2019 10:16 PMIf they made MOS a purchased RA again instead of baking it in to stealth spec and added back the stealth detection. Then give back camo and make work against MOS as it was back on live 2011 it would be balanced. Never played the game in an era where it was more balanced between archer sin then that time right before broadsword.
if you get camo back do i get see hidden back? but tbh i really wouldnt care if they got camo back, it has such a long cd and goes down when touched.
last time i played on live before broadsword i remember the scout assist trains standing on top of bridges and /assisting ppl down from what seemed like a mile away. i don't know of anyone that liked that, aside from the scouts ofc lol.
Riac wrote: ↑Wed 20 Mar 2019 10:01 PMlourock wrote: ↑Wed 20 Mar 2019 9:30 PMAll archers really need IMHO is for MOS to work correctly. They have the same issue here as on live, the detection is ass backwards. Sins seeing archers from stealth way before an archer can react is not a good thing. Sins are top of the food chain here just as they were on live they need some natural predators.
so the archer should be able to see me ,a sb, and start aiming a CS before i can see him? seems a little rough, tbh i'd say that would almost be fair for scouts but for rangers that would make them over the top strong. they are already pretty strong since they dont have to spec pf since pots and charges are good here, they just spec bow cd and blades and are quite strong with ip being what it is.
assume this ranger CS me with blade arrow and i then have to fight him, starting from somewhere around half hp, and kill him twice over due to ip. all the while he is getting +dmg on me while having high combat specs, because most arent going to spec PF.
i sorta feel bad for scouts and hunters, but i feel no sympathy for rangers vs sins.
AngelRose wrote: ↑Thu 21 Mar 2019 3:12 AMRiac wrote: ↑Wed 20 Mar 2019 10:01 PMlourock wrote: ↑Wed 20 Mar 2019 9:30 PMAll archers really need IMHO is for MOS to work correctly. They have the same issue here as on live, the detection is ass backwards. Sins seeing archers from stealth way before an archer can react is not a good thing. Sins are top of the food chain here just as they were on live they need some natural predators.
so the archer should be able to see me ,a sb, and start aiming a CS before i can see him? seems a little rough, tbh i'd say that would almost be fair for scouts but for rangers that would make them over the top strong. they are already pretty strong since they dont have to spec pf since pots and charges are good here, they just spec bow cd and blades and are quite strong with ip being what it is.
assume this ranger CS me with blade arrow and i then have to fight him, starting from somewhere around half hp, and kill him twice over due to ip. all the while he is getting +dmg on me while having high combat specs, because most arent going to spec PF.
i sorta feel bad for scouts and hunters, but i feel no sympathy for rangers vs sins.
Why should sins see archers before we can even see you? At least make it the same range
Riac wrote: ↑Thu 21 Mar 2019 3:46 AMAngelRose wrote: ↑Thu 21 Mar 2019 3:12 AMRiac wrote: ↑Wed 20 Mar 2019 10:01 PMso the archer should be able to see me ,a sb, and start aiming a CS before i can see him? seems a little rough, tbh i'd say that would almost be fair for scouts but for rangers that would make them over the top strong. they are already pretty strong since they dont have to spec pf since pots and charges are good here, they just spec bow cd and blades and are quite strong with ip being what it is.
assume this ranger CS me with blade arrow and i then have to fight him, starting from somewhere around half hp, and kill him twice over due to ip. all the while he is getting +dmg on me while having high combat specs, because most arent going to spec PF.
i sorta feel bad for scouts and hunters, but i feel no sympathy for rangers vs sins.
Why should sins see archers before we can even see you? At least make it the same range
why should archers see sins before sins can see them? kinda makes sense to me that archers (ranged class) is at a disadvantage in close quarters, seems like that should apply to vision and combat. maybe you should stay away from high traffic areas, the sort of places that sins normally walk, and if you're not quite sure where those areas are then keep playing, you'll find out :p
Riac wrote: ↑Thu 21 Mar 2019 7:27 AMi know its off topic but i dont think sins are really that over the top. most hybrids, light tanks, and tanks stand a pretty good chance equally buffed and equal rr against a sin. they have access to the very same buffs and charges that sins do. hell, even a ranger stands a pretty good chance lol
I'm aware most casters dont stand a chance.
well shield styles dont have a high to hit bonus, maybe its worth to look into a higher weapon specc if you have a stun there you can rely onGlimmer wrote: ↑Thu 21 Mar 2019 7:39 AM1)Counter vs assassin vanish, atm they got damn stealth immune detection.
2)Less evade vs arrows/miss chance.
3)Better defense vs assassins, their ability to evade almost every single melee swing is OP(this made me almost delete my scout so many times...) !
4)Brink back NF Mastery of Stealth ! or give archers more spec pts to spec more in stealth(stealth will provide NF MOS till 50lvl specced).
5)Give us reason to spec more than 35 bow, atm it's worthless.
Regards
Luluko wrote: ↑Thu 21 Mar 2019 8:55 AMwell shield styles dont have a high to hit bonus, maybe its worth to look into a higher weapon specc if you have a stun there you can rely onGlimmer wrote: ↑Thu 21 Mar 2019 7:39 AM1)Counter vs assassin vanish, atm they got damn stealth immune detection.
2)Less evade vs arrows/miss chance.
3)Better defense vs assassins, their ability to evade almost every single melee swing is OP(this made me almost delete my scout so many times...) !
4)Brink back NF Mastery of Stealth ! or give archers more spec pts to spec more in stealth(stealth will provide NF MOS till 50lvl specced).
5)Give us reason to spec more than 35 bow, atm it's worthless.
Regards
and I blocked like 2 slams from armsmen yesterday on my shaman :>
which got evaded alot(yes i strafe but it doesn't rly help at all)are you suggesting you do anything else on a scout in melee than trying to land slam ? well the problem isnt just the evade also the weaponskill debuff they have add to that str/con debuff and say goodbye to your hitchance I had that happen to my skald recently (also only has like 1200ish weaponskill with pot buffs) got weapon con debuffed and I couldnt even finish a ns which only 40% and I 60% at the time was rly frustrating didnt think I would have to purge that debuff he still killed me tho with 10% left.Glimmer wrote: ↑Thu 21 Mar 2019 12:08 PMLuluko wrote: ↑Thu 21 Mar 2019 8:55 AMwell shield styles dont have a high to hit bonus, maybe its worth to look into a higher weapon specc if you have a stun there you can rely onGlimmer wrote: ↑Thu 21 Mar 2019 7:39 AM1)Counter vs assassin vanish, atm they got damn stealth immune detection.
2)Less evade vs arrows/miss chance.
3)Better defense vs assassins, their ability to evade almost every single melee swing is OP(this made me almost delete my scout so many times...) !
4)Brink back NF Mastery of Stealth ! or give archers more spec pts to spec more in stealth(stealth will provide NF MOS till 50lvl specced).
5)Give us reason to spec more than 35 bow, atm it's worthless.
Regards
and I blocked like 2 slams from armsmen yesterday on my shaman :>
I not mean shield styles cus yes they got preaty damn low hit chance, i talk about Medium Hit bonus styles
Block rate is weaker vs dual wielders than 1h users 2h users =)
Regards
Riac wrote: ↑Thu 21 Mar 2019 6:21 PMi do feel bad for scouts since all they can really do is slam me and hope my purge is down so they can critshot me again, but all of these things are going to indirectly buff rangers and rangers are already strong af imo.
the other night i was running unstealthed around crim (i was boering, late at night, and i had vanish up so why not) this rr6 luri ranger (in an undyed gov chest and malice axe skins, idk know his name but maybe some on hib do) shot the shit out of me (cs i assume, idk) and then shot me again (which brought me to about half hp) so i vanish. then a skald runs up on this luri and this luri beat the brakes off this skald, using ip and all the other stuff. the skald had all the fancy chest and helm skins so i assume he was temped. after that fight the ranger still had about 30% hp left.
you ever tried to fight yamyams?
i think this thread should be called scouts need love, not so much archers.
cere2 wrote: ↑Thu 21 Mar 2019 9:35 PMRiac wrote: ↑Thu 21 Mar 2019 6:21 PMi do feel bad for scouts since all they can really do is slam me and hope my purge is down so they can critshot me again, but all of these things are going to indirectly buff rangers and rangers are already strong af imo.
the other night i was running unstealthed around crim (i was boering, late at night, and i had vanish up so why not) this rr6 luri ranger (in an undyed gov chest and malice axe skins, idk know his name but maybe some on hib do) shot the shit out of me (cs i assume, idk) and then shot me again (which brought me to about half hp) so i vanish. then a skald runs up on this luri and this luri beat the brakes off this skald, using ip and all the other stuff. the skald had all the fancy chest and helm skins so i assume he was temped. after that fight the ranger still had about 30% hp left.
you ever tried to fight yamyams?
i think this thread should be called scouts need love, not so much archers.
I don't think scouts are at such a disadvantage as some think. Unless engage is totally broken. Most are just one trick ponies. Slam, crit crit win, or slam they purge, and they have no melee to do much else.
How many have tactics? Maybe spec lower in shield, more melee, use bash, get a purge on numb etc...maybe ditch shield all together and try out 50 thrust for the 9 sec off evade stun?
I'll admit I have not played scout yet on this server but had plenty of exp with them on classic and on.
Honestly if they fix this detection range to be equal archers might put up more of a fight since perhaps sin's wont just get free PA's anymore.
Perhaps some archers are a tough fight right now, but from what I have been seeing, if its a 1v1 85% of the time archer is free rps.
On the other hand, if nothing changes, we can expect more fg's of stealthers farming solo's duo's smallman's just like it is on live.
Riac wrote: ↑Thu 21 Mar 2019 6:21 PMi do feel bad for scouts since all they can really do is slam me and hope my purge is down so they can critshot me again, but all of these things are going to indirectly buff rangers and rangers are already strong af imo.
the other night i was running unstealthed around crim (i was boering, late at night, and i had vanish up so why not) this rr6 luri ranger (in an undyed gov chest and malice axe skins, idk know his name but maybe some on hib do) shot the shit out of me (cs i assume, idk) and then shot me again (which brought me to about half hp) so i vanish. then a skald runs up on this luri and this luri beat the brakes off this skald, using ip and all the other stuff. the skald had all the fancy chest and helm skins so i assume he was temped. after that fight the ranger still had about 30% hp left.
you ever tried to fight yamyams?
i think this thread should be called scouts need love, not so much archers.
semadin wrote: ↑Thu 21 Mar 2019 10:25 PMRiac wrote: ↑Thu 21 Mar 2019 6:21 PMi do feel bad for scouts since all they can really do is slam me and hope my purge is down so they can critshot me again, but all of these things are going to indirectly buff rangers and rangers are already strong af imo.
the other night i was running unstealthed around crim (i was boering, late at night, and i had vanish up so why not) this rr6 luri ranger (in an undyed gov chest and malice axe skins, idk know his name but maybe some on hib do) shot the shit out of me (cs i assume, idk) and then shot me again (which brought me to about half hp) so i vanish. then a skald runs up on this luri and this luri beat the brakes off this skald, using ip and all the other stuff. the skald had all the fancy chest and helm skins so i assume he was temped. after that fight the ranger still had about 30% hp left.
you ever tried to fight yamyams?
i think this thread should be called scouts need love, not so much archers.
I think the problem there comes from the ability to self buff with charges/potions. Gives the ranger the ability to max bow and melee w/o sacrificing anything - whereas the base design should have them choosing between melee or ranged, or hybrid.
Putting value into bow above 35 would result in more ranger running around with less melee capability in any case.
Riac wrote: ↑Thu 21 Mar 2019 10:29 PMsemadin wrote: ↑Thu 21 Mar 2019 10:25 PMRiac wrote: ↑Thu 21 Mar 2019 6:21 PMi do feel bad for scouts since all they can really do is slam me and hope my purge is down so they can critshot me again, but all of these things are going to indirectly buff rangers and rangers are already strong af imo.
the other night i was running unstealthed around crim (i was boering, late at night, and i had vanish up so why not) this rr6 luri ranger (in an undyed gov chest and malice axe skins, idk know his name but maybe some on hib do) shot the shit out of me (cs i assume, idk) and then shot me again (which brought me to about half hp) so i vanish. then a skald runs up on this luri and this luri beat the brakes off this skald, using ip and all the other stuff. the skald had all the fancy chest and helm skins so i assume he was temped. after that fight the ranger still had about 30% hp left.
you ever tried to fight yamyams?
i think this thread should be called scouts need love, not so much archers.
I think the problem there comes from the ability to self buff with charges/potions. Gives the ranger the ability to max bow and melee w/o sacrificing anything - whereas the base design should have them choosing between melee or ranged, or hybrid.
Putting value into bow above 35 would result in more ranger running around with less melee capability in any case.
i dont think they need an incentive to spec more bow, it already hurts. i think they need more of an incentive to spec pf, it should be on par w/ charges.
bow dmg seems fine, i do think its a little crazy it doesnt pierce caster bladeturn though.
Riac wrote: ↑Thu 21 Mar 2019 10:47 PMi agree theyd have to stretch out the growth a bit on archery otherwise itd be jsut 2 shotting soft ppl.
just now in the entrance to emain they had no less than 5 scouts sitting there popping on ppl, now image if those dudes had more dmg on bow lol.
it would be a no one below a 5 man shall pass sort of situation.
Tillbeast wrote: ↑Thu 21 Mar 2019 11:39 PMRiac wrote: ↑Thu 21 Mar 2019 10:47 PMi agree theyd have to stretch out the growth a bit on archery otherwise itd be jsut 2 shotting soft ppl.
just now in the entrance to emain they had no less than 5 scouts sitting there popping on ppl, now image if those dudes had more dmg on bow lol.
it would be a no one below a 5 man shall pass sort of situation.
Not quite a no more pass situation as all it would take 1 aoe to interrupt archers but 5 scouts (or any other archer) should drop a single target just as quick as what 5 eldrichts/runemasters/wizards do now. To be honest probably 4 clothe casters could do same damage as 5 archers. My old guild before we logged for the night would find one of the hibs or albion premium 8v8 team and the 5 or 6 hunter team would just 1 shot the bard/minstrel before we got facerolled by the remaining 7 members
Riac wrote: ↑Thu 21 Mar 2019 11:41 PMTillbeast wrote: ↑Thu 21 Mar 2019 11:39 PMRiac wrote: ↑Thu 21 Mar 2019 10:47 PMi agree theyd have to stretch out the growth a bit on archery otherwise itd be jsut 2 shotting soft ppl.
just now in the entrance to emain they had no less than 5 scouts sitting there popping on ppl, now image if those dudes had more dmg on bow lol.
it would be a no one below a 5 man shall pass sort of situation.
Not quite a no more pass situation as all it would take 1 aoe to interrupt archers but 5 scouts (or any other archer) should drop a single target just as quick as what 5 eldrichts/runemasters/wizards do now. To be honest probably 4 clothe casters could do same damage as 5 archers. My old guild before we logged for the night would find one of the hibs or albion premium 8v8 team and the 5 or 6 hunter team would just 1 shot the bard/minstrel before we got facerolled by the remaining 7 members
im sure they could, the main difference is the 5-man cloth team doesnt sit there in stealth and 1 shot you from range. you sorta also assume these scouts are clumped up, the smart ones will stagger a bit to avoid this sort of thing. they did all die but it was just rofl seeing all these dudes popping out shooting the shit out of ppl lol
the situation you are describing here i think is the one that most ppl would like to avoid btw.
Leandrys wrote: ↑Fri 22 Mar 2019 3:38 AMASNs are the standard ego's class, they can kill potentially anything in the game depending of situation and if they fail to, well, vanish, bye. They're built for ego's flatteging. Just look at their arsenal, basically they can debuff S/C, snare poison, dot, burst AND dps, disease, formidable melee styles, stun(s), any time snare, stealth (well, ofc tho...), NS can cast a bit (da fuk ?) just in case they miserably fail on casters. Something goes wrong ? Oh wait, purge + Vanish.
What i mean is... Can't really "balance" them, you'll just earn thousands of "BUT WE CAN'T GROUP SO WE HAVE TO BE STRONG IN 1VS1" and other funny arguments, just check the little shit storm we were starting to have when weapon switch was a bit nerfed, and the worst thing is they're kinda right, Mythic totally failed their stealth's concept with that perma invisibility and went 100% conservatism with that, "doesn't work, let's keep it that way". Results are impossible to group classes, forcing them to let ASNs be such predators and bow "meh" at the best. (which is fine imo, what's wrong and weak is the rest on archers)
Stealth is ****ed up in DAOC, it's just insane but it also ruins all possible balance, blame Mythic, they've always been extremely lazy when it comes to balance, ASNs are the shiny and FOTM class by excellence (they've had their own darkest hours, but it didn't last for long compared to their bright ones), archers are what they are, won't develop too much on them, i do not think anymore they will evolve in a noticeable way on Phoenix.
Leandrys wrote: ↑Fri 22 Mar 2019 3:38 AMASNs are the standard ego's class, they can kill potentially anything in the game depending of situation and if they fail to, well, vanish, bye. They're built for ego's flatteging. Just look at their arsenal, basically they can debuff S/C, snare poison, dot, burst AND dps, disease, formidable melee styles, stun(s), any time snare, stealth (well, ofc tho...), NS can cast a bit (da fuk ?) just in case they miserably fail on casters. Something goes wrong ? Oh wait, purge + Vanish.
What i mean is... Can't really "balance" them, you'll just earn thousands of "BUT WE CAN'T GROUP SO WE HAVE TO BE STRONG IN 1VS1" and other funny arguments, just check the little shitstorm we were starting to have when weapon switch was a bit nerfed, and the worst thing is they're kinda right, Mythic totally failed their stealth's concept with that perma invisibility and went 100% conservatism with that, "doesn't work, let's keep it that way". Results are impossible to group classes, forcing them to let ASNs be such predators and bow "meh" at the best. (which is fine imo, what's wrong and weak is the rest on archers)
Stealth is ****ed up in DAOC, it's just insane but it also ruins all possible balance, blame Mythic, they've always been extremely lazy when it comes to balance, ASNs are the shiny and FOTM class by excellence (they've had their own darkest hours, but it didn't last for long compared to their bright ones), archers are what they are, won't develop too much on them, i do not think anymore they will evolve in a noticeable way on Phoenix.
lourock wrote: ↑Fri 22 Mar 2019 4:05 AMRight now on live many people have cancelled because of Sins they completely went full retard with them. They are not as bad here but they are close. Get rid of /switch, get rid of baked in MOS in stealth spec and watch sins get brought back to earth. I do not feel Archers need much more the bow seems to hit pretty hard they cant kill non afk heavy tanks and thats fine. Rock paper scissors devs remember? This is a custom QOL server but QOL shouldnt mean Sins running around insta blapping everything on 2 legs. Give the archers a chance to fight back try it, create a new meta. People will bitch about archers, sure but everyone hates dying to ranged that's how we got here in the first place.
Mavella wrote: ↑Fri 22 Mar 2019 5:51 AMlourock wrote: ↑Fri 22 Mar 2019 4:05 AMRight now on live many people have cancelled because of Sins they completely went full retard with them. They are not as bad here but they are close. Get rid of /switch, get rid of baked in MOS in stealth spec and watch sins get brought back to earth. I do not feel Archers need much more the bow seems to hit pretty hard they cant kill non afk heavy tanks and thats fine. Rock paper scissors devs remember? This is a custom QOL server but QOL shouldnt mean Sins running around insta blapping everything on 2 legs. Give the archers a chance to fight back try it, create a new meta. People will bitch about archers, sure but everyone hates dying to ranged that's how we got here in the first place.
MOS provides nothing except move speed in stealth on this server and archers have access to the same benefits. /switch was already nerfed weeks ago. No assassin is going to jump an equal RR heavy tank light tank or hybrid without both purge and vanish up unless they are looking to make a rapid trip back to their PK. The only things getting "insta-blapped" are casters, lowbie, and untemped 50s. I've also had very close straight up melee fights with well played equal RR rangers and scouts so they certainly aren't helpless.
Reduce the range at which assassins can see archers so they odnt have such easy perfs and the problem will be much improved. Of all archers hunters need the most help by a wide margin.
Horus wrote: ↑Fri 22 Mar 2019 2:12 PMCurrent state on Phoenix..
(does not include other archers as the target)
1. An archer cannot kill any equally ranked/equipped target 1 on 1 at range unless the target is distracted or does not know how to play their class.
2. An archer cannot kill any equally ranked/equipped target in melee unless the enemy does not know how to play their class or some super statistically rare RNGs.
3. They cannot successfully use stealth due to the unfair imbalance of detection range and rampant population of assassins.
4. They cannot get groups because they bring nothing to the table that is not easily outdone by a diff class.
What they can do...
1. Kill levelers
2. Add on existing fights
3. Zerg surf with Rapid fire
4. Kill each other
Maybe that is just the role expected on Phoenix and we should embrace it...
At this point I think a crossbow Armsman would be a archer than an archer. At least you have a chance of surviving assassins and maybe finishing off a target in melee after they sprint to you with full endo regen. Who cares about crit shot. It rarely lands anyway.
Oh yea and...
Riac wrote: ↑Fri 22 Mar 2019 5:51 AMsemadin wrote: ↑Fri 22 Mar 2019 5:35 AMMaybe the balance of assassins starts by taking away their self buffing abilities 😄
that essentially takes away everyones abils to self buff that isnt built into their class. this game isnt exactly fun unbuffed, its sooo slow.
semadin wrote: ↑Fri 22 Mar 2019 5:39 PMRiac wrote: ↑Fri 22 Mar 2019 5:51 AMsemadin wrote: ↑Fri 22 Mar 2019 5:35 AMMaybe the balance of assassins starts by taking away their self buffing abilities 😄
that essentially takes away everyones abils to self buff that isnt built into their class. this game isnt exactly fun unbuffed, its sooo slow.
How do we actually know this? Unbuffed vs unbuffed seems fine. Unbuffed vs Buffed is the problem. And the classes are not designed with being buffed outside of a group setting in mind.
Riac wrote: ↑Fri 22 Mar 2019 4:12 AMthe amount of ad hominem in the first paragraph is pretty outstanding lol
Leandrys wrote: ↑Thu 28 Mar 2019 6:09 AMSure, stealth in daoc is by far the best way ever implemented in a MMO for that feature, it's a globally reknown fact by everyone. "Hey, remember when we clicked on that button and were totally stealth for as long as we wanted ? That was the good old time", or "hey, remember when you get pulled by three stealthers on daoc with your solo visible or added by 2 who waited you to start 1vs1 before attacking after your purge is down ? Oh, that was the best time ever".
Oh, well, it's exactly the opposite to be honnest, almost everybody spits on daoc's stealth conception, and that's normal, because it's a failed and lazy work.
And you're such a "intelligent" player that you forgot to mention the only real advantage of stealthers for RvR (something with the big buildings in the big zone, you know...), instead you went to elusive BS, almost contradicting yourself :
1 : replying "Assassins and archers, to a lesser extent, do serve a purpose in RvR" to someone who says assassins (not archer) lack a real role in RvR and are just done for ego/rp farming in 1vs1.
2 : giving that role "and places him instead in a 1v1 bracket that assassins and archers excel in". Ok, so as i said, no more RvR, dominating 1vs1 then. Well well well... What an argument.
Let's resume : assassins are done to dominate 1vs1 (and adding by extension, privilege of infinite stealth in the style of daoc, you know), therefore they have a role to play in RvR, because 1vs1 matters in RvR.
Ok. It would be so easy to give them a place in 8vs8 and more, but no, Mythic had better things to do, like... I... Have no example right now, but i'm sure they had better things to do. Right ?
Dariussdars wrote: ↑Thu 4 Apr 2019 9:08 AMHard to play solo as a Mid stealther when Albs routinely run stealth groups/zergs.
Eventually they aren't going to find anyone else to kill 5 on 1 though.
Snakejuice wrote: ↑Thu 4 Apr 2019 5:10 PM!. give back camo
2. buff or remake BC in hunter skill tree (cus it sucks donkeyballs)
3. atm theres no point going higher then 35-40 archer. make it worth having 50 aka sniping specc.
waffel wrote: ↑Thu 4 Apr 2019 9:49 AMDariussdars wrote: ↑Thu 4 Apr 2019 9:08 AMHard to play solo as a Mid stealther when Albs routinely run stealth groups/zergs.
Eventually they aren't going to find anyone else to kill 5 on 1 though.
“I went to the task zone MG/PK, where every other stealther goes, and died to multiple stealthers”
qq6 wrote: ↑Thu 4 Apr 2019 1:06 PMWe keep repeating the same thing over and over, and people just, dont get it...
Find other places to hunt, no1 is making you go to the stealther hot spots, if you are solo, even if you win 100% of the fights vs other stealthers (1v1), its stupid to go to these areas, there will always be people who group up, simply because its easier / more fun to kill more in a group.
Plenty of high traffic areas around, and definitely not all of them are camped by groups. hf
Also, dont be discouraged if you get killed as a solo, at the end of the day, its your choice to play that way in a group centered game.
waffel wrote: ↑Fri 5 Apr 2019 1:32 AMLol there isn’t Alb stealth zergs in Uppland, what are you smoking? I spend almost all my time in Uppland solo ripping into yellow levelers and anyone running solo and the most I’ve ever seen was a minstrel and MAYBE an infil grouped.
Sepplord wrote: ↑Mon 8 Apr 2019 3:42 PMi still fail to see why anyone would play an assassin if they get similar detection and comparable melee-capabilities to archers
stealth-openers alone do not warrant missing out on a fullrange capable dmgline
i agree that the bowspecc has problems and that it feels bad for archerclasses to not really have reasons to spec high archery...but equalizing them assassins while also having their ranged capabilities is unreasonable, yet what many people here propose with their changes
cere2 wrote: ↑Mon 8 Apr 2019 3:56 PMSepplord wrote: ↑Mon 8 Apr 2019 3:42 PMi still fail to see why anyone would play an assassin if they get similar detection and comparable melee-capabilities to archers
stealth-openers alone do not warrant missing out on a fullrange capable dmgline
i agree that the bowspecc has problems and that it feels bad for archerclasses to not really have reasons to spec high archery...but equalizing them assassins while also having their ranged capabilities is unreasonable, yet what many people here propose with their changes
You have got to be kidding. So making assassins and archers detection range both at 250 instead of 125/250 would make all sin's want to be archers.
Have you even played Daoc?
I mean that's the most laughable quote I have read so far.
So archers "might" have a "chance" to avoid PA's....That's it! Assassin's broken! No one will play sin's anymore....ffs the irony.
Sepplord wrote: ↑Mon 8 Apr 2019 9:23 PMcere2 wrote: ↑Mon 8 Apr 2019 3:56 PMSepplord wrote: ↑Mon 8 Apr 2019 3:42 PMi still fail to see why anyone would play an assassin if they get similar detection and comparable melee-capabilities to archers
stealth-openers alone do not warrant missing out on a fullrange capable dmgline
i agree that the bowspecc has problems and that it feels bad for archerclasses to not really have reasons to spec high archery...but equalizing them assassins while also having their ranged capabilities is unreasonable, yet what many people here propose with their changes
You have got to be kidding. So making assassins and archers detection range both at 250 instead of 125/250 would make all sin's want to be archers.
Have you even played Daoc?
I mean that's the most laughable quote I have read so far.
So archers "might" have a "chance" to avoid PA's....That's it! Assassin's broken! No one will play sin's anymore....ffs the irony.
No, equalizing only the detection range would not do that, where did i say that?. It is not the most laughable Quote you have read so far, since you have just proven that you did not read it
Reading must be so much harder than playing the game, considering the amount of fails
It's also ironic how 2 archers Dodge a valid question and default to lowlevel strategies to avoid actually Thinking about an argument that was made. One misrepresenting by omitting half of my argument, the other going ad hominem with baseless lies that could have easily been avoided with a 5minute research. It's not like it is hard to find something attackable in post-history...but no with your precisionskills you managed to pick the assassin-nerf that i not only welcomed but advocated for
cere2 wrote: ↑Mon 8 Apr 2019 9:44 PMSepplord wrote: ↑Mon 8 Apr 2019 9:23 PMcere2 wrote: ↑Mon 8 Apr 2019 3:56 PMYou have got to be kidding. So making assassins and archers detection range both at 250 instead of 125/250 would make all sin's want to be archers.
Have you even played Daoc?
I mean that's the most laughable quote I have read so far.
So archers "might" have a "chance" to avoid PA's....That's it! Assassin's broken! No one will play sin's anymore....ffs the irony.
No, equalizing only the detection range would not do that, where did i say that?. It is not the most laughable Quote you have read so far, since you have just proven that you did not read it
Reading must be so much harder than playing the game, considering the amount of fails
It's also ironic how 2 archers Dodge a valid question and default to lowlevel strategies to avoid actually Thinking about an argument that was made. One misrepresenting by omitting half of my argument, the other going ad hominem with baseless lies that could have easily been avoided with a 5minute research. It's not like it is hard to find something attackable in post-history...but no with your precisionskills you managed to pick the assassin-nerf that i not only welcomed but advocated for
I did read your post, perhaps you are not versed in getting a point across in text.
"i still fail to see why anyone would play an assassin if they get similar detection and comparable melee-capabilities to archers"
Is that not what you wrote? If that is indeed what you wrote...which looks to me like it is, exactly what meaning did you have by saying that?
Because I said, oh...if both had 250 detection range...you said "similar" .....than assassins would be trash and no one would play them.
Which is the reason I said its the most laughable point I've seen someone try to make.
If assassin's need the crutch of PA in order to win vs archers then just say that. If they can win without landing a PA every battle then you shouldn't have an issue with same detection range, right?
florin wrote: ↑Mon 8 Apr 2019 10:01 PMIf you don’t pa a melee ranger, you’re not winning if he has purge/ip/heal charge/ heal pot up. I’ve had to kill some twice and they do the same or more damage when looking at armor. So ya - luri bow rangers are snacks - Shar melee rangers mignt as well be blademasters
Sepplord wrote: ↑Tue 9 Apr 2019 5:34 AMcere2 wrote: ↑Mon 8 Apr 2019 9:44 PMSepplord wrote: ↑Mon 8 Apr 2019 9:23 PMNo, equalizing only the detection range would not do that, where did i say that?. It is not the most laughable Quote you have read so far, since you have just proven that you did not read it
Reading must be so much harder than playing the game, considering the amount of fails
It's also ironic how 2 archers Dodge a valid question and default to lowlevel strategies to avoid actually Thinking about an argument that was made. One misrepresenting by omitting half of my argument, the other going ad hominem with baseless lies that could have easily been avoided with a 5minute research. It's not like it is hard to find something attackable in post-history...but no with your precisionskills you managed to pick the assassin-nerf that i not only welcomed but advocated for
I did read your post, perhaps you are not versed in getting a point across in text.
"i still fail to see why anyone would play an assassin if they get similar detection and comparable melee-capabilities to archers"
Is that not what you wrote? If that is indeed what you wrote...which looks to me like it is, exactly what meaning did you have by saying that?
Because I said, oh...if both had 250 detection range...you said "similar" .....than assassins would be trash and no one would play them.
Which is the reason I said its the most laughable point I've seen someone try to make.
If assassin's need the crutch of PA in order to win vs archers then just say that. If they can win without landing a PA every battle then you shouldn't have an issue with same detection range, right?
you claim you carefully read the comment, but you even quote the part where the word "and" is used, but reply as if the word "or" was used...
seriously dude, you need to stop jumping down everyones throat just because they didn't immediatly praise you and your arguments. Nothing has ever come from that, and even if you had a point and my argument was flawed, by behaving like an asshole you are increasing the cahnces of me just doubling down out of spite. It's not the case here (i feel like i have to spell that out or it will get misinterpreted again).
Seeing in your sig how you are rerolling from luri ranger to midgard and now back to sharranger is showing that you are simply chasing something OP while advocating for buffs for the same thing in the meantime, regardless of sense if that is needed. You want a character that is on par in melee while also having great ranged-dmg...and the ranger already offers that, but for you it is still not enough. You want to have the cake and eat it too.
Horus wrote: ↑Tue 9 Apr 2019 1:54 PMflorin wrote: ↑Mon 8 Apr 2019 10:01 PMIf you don’t pa a melee ranger, you’re not winning if he has purge/ip/heal charge/ heal pot up. I’ve had to kill some twice and they do the same or more damage when looking at armor. So ya - luri bow rangers are snacks - Shar melee rangers mignt as well be blademasters
I think you've stumbled into the core of the issue right here. The discrepancy between even a hybrid keen ranger vs a shar/celt melee is like night a day. For one thing melee ranger is prob going to be blades which has a large damage advantage against SBs. and is neutral against Infilts. Where as the keen prototypical ranger is probably going to go Thrust which is a terrible dmg choice to use against SBs and Infilts.
I have both a melee celt ranger and a keen hybrid. I can see how at higher RR a melee celt/shar with all melee RAs could hold there own against many SBs/Infilts...
However all things being equal...with close to the same RR and all toys up, a SB/Infilt will or should win every time..or at least not lose. You don't need to perf to keep switching out weapons and venoms. SBs/Iniflts have like a 30% evade rate where as Rangers are more like 13. You can survive longer as a melee ranger but you will never beat and equal opponent unless they don't know what they are doing or have an exceedingly bad run in RNG. As a high RR melee ranger, you can beat lower RR SBs/Infilts with all you toys up...but that is not really point of the convo here is it? Of course if you dominate someone in RR you can win....
Conversely, a high RR bow spec keen pierce ranger will get destroyed by a low RR SB/Infilt even without perf. It is not even close. So when talking about needs, it best to compare apples to apples...not "well my RR3 SB got beat down so close to death by a RR 7 shar ranger after he hit purge, IP, and his heal pots that I had to hit vanish. Therefore, Rangers are fine".
This is about bow damage. Archers want to be archers, not 2nd rate melee toons relegated to grinding/zerg surfing out realm ranks just to be competitive against lower RR opponents solo. Also survive-ability. It makes zero sense to give assassins a detection range advantage against archers. I would argue archers should have the detection range bonus. That would make more sense in real world RvR..in the least they should be equal.
cere2 wrote: ↑Tue 9 Apr 2019 2:20 PMGotta love when people resort to name calling when they can't represent their own point.
So I'm now an A-hole because you think Rangers are OP. Now I know the reason behind what you posted, need the crutch.
Honestly I could care less if you agree with me or not, I was just pointing out the absurdity of your post....you said "and" instead of "or" .... that's why it was misunderstood?
Sorry not buying a bridge in the desert today, but thanks anyhow.
Now your calling having stealth detection range for both at 250 a buff to rangers.
A buff would be me asking for a 7 sec off evade stun, how about PD? Dodger? ...or higher bow damage past 35...none of which I have asked for.
But call it what you want, like I said it seems assassin's need this crutch so yeah I'm making one of two "races" that give more strength and training melee so I can be somewhat competitive too.
I would go back to my Luri and try to utilize bow...you know like an archer should use? But with detection the way it is now, we are almost always forced to go straight up melee.
i still fail to see why anyone would play an assassin if they get similar detection and comparable melee-capabilities to archers
i still fail to see why anyone would play an assassin if they get similar detection or comparable melee-capabilities to archers
Sepplord wrote: ↑Tue 9 Apr 2019 2:40 PMcere2 wrote: ↑Tue 9 Apr 2019 2:20 PMGotta love when people resort to name calling when they can't represent their own point.
So I'm now an A-hole because you think Rangers are OP. Now I know the reason behind what you posted, need the crutch.
Honestly I could care less if you agree with me or not, I was just pointing out the absurdity of your post....you said "and" instead of "or" .... that's why it was misunderstood?
Sorry not buying a bridge in the desert today, but thanks anyhow.
Now your calling having stealth detection range for both at 250 a buff to rangers.
A buff would be me asking for a 7 sec off evade stun, how about PD? Dodger? ...or higher bow damage past 35...none of which I have asked for.
But call it what you want, like I said it seems assassin's need this crutch so yeah I'm making one of two "races" that give more strength and training melee so I can be somewhat competitive too.
I would go back to my Luri and try to utilize bow...you know like an archer should use? But with detection the way it is now, we are almost always forced to go straight up melee.
Dude calm down, i get you are doubling down on your point. but you are making a fool out of yourself really hard.
Just because there are even bigger buffs to ask for doesn't mean that asking for a bigger detection range against enemies is not also a buff. How can you claim asking for more detection range is not a buff (regardless if that buff is warranted or not...simply stating THATS NOT ASKING FOR A BUFF is mindboggling)?
Are you saying it is a nerf? Does it change nothing at all (why are you asking for it then)?
Please stop insulting my ability to present a point, you have quoted me yourself but i feel to stress this:
my comment:i still fail to see why anyone would play an assassin if they get similar detection and comparable melee-capabilities to archers
replace "and" with "or"i still fail to see why anyone would play an assassin if they get similar detection or comparable melee-capabilities to archers
Two completely different statements, and if you cannot see that...then that is not due to my incapability to get my point accross.
It's almost as if you are intentionally sabotaging this discussion so the archer-community looks like idiots (this part isn't about the validity of the demands anymore, btw , this is about how you react to counterpoints and presentation of your arguments in general)
i still fail to see why anyone would play an assassin if they get similar detection or comparable melee-capabilities to archers
cere2 wrote: ↑Tue 9 Apr 2019 2:55 PMNow to your quote.
replace "and" with "or"i still fail to see why anyone would play an assassin if they get similar detection or comparable melee-capabilities to archers
#1 Why would anyone play an assassin "IF" they get similar detection range to archers.
#2 Why would anyone play an assassin "IF" they get comparable melee-capabilities to archers.
I broke this up in to (2) seperate lines so you can read what you wrote.
So #1....So you believe assassins would quit if archers had similar detection range as they do? Like I said, do you even play this game?
So #2....So assassin's don't get comparible melee-capabilities to archers? Uhh they do so like I said, one of the most laughable quotes thus far.
Either way, you can rebut this with your next post, fact of the matter is, you obviously feel that Sin's need the added detection range in order to battle against an archer class. Sorry you feel that way, but to each their own.
djegu wrote: ↑Tue 9 Apr 2019 4:06 PMI honestly don't understand people that say archer need more bow damage, on a daily basis i get hit by scout in the 600-800 area.
Although I understand that speccing higher than 35 in bow should be rewarding, for example going through the bubble of a caster.
Also putting them to the same detection range as sins won't affect sins much, we will still find them when they shoot someone.
waffel wrote: ↑Fri 22 Mar 2019 1:28 PMAssassins: 5 point vanish to reset any fight and escape any death
Minstrels: 5 point SoS to reset any fight and escape any death
Archers: ???
djegu wrote: ↑Tue 9 Apr 2019 6:24 PMI see your point, and you are right, sometimes i can run away from an archer but most of the time, by the time i see the target run to him, i take a slam and i'm done.
Ok now let's say they increase bow damage, what will happen ? Hybrid ranger will be stronger, that's mean they will do good dmg with bow and by the time you reach them in melee you'll have more than half your life taken away, scout with only 4 line of spec will have 50 in bow and still have a slam, hunter already melee beast, will have even more tools to beat your ass up.
The real issue is really the detection range for me, archer should be able to dodge sin if they see one, currently they can't due to the detection range. And make the lvl 45 and 50 bow more valuable, like add a longer distance shoot like longshot or maybe a shoot that can stun you for 3s for example.
djegu wrote: ↑Tue 9 Apr 2019 6:24 PMI see your point, and you are right, sometimes i can run away from an archer but most of the time, by the time i see the target run to him, i take a slam and i'm done.
Ok now let's say they increase bow damage, what will happen ? Hybrid ranger will be stronger, that's mean they will do good dmg with bow and by the time you reach them in melee you'll have more than half your life taken away, scout with only 4 line of spec will have 50 in bow and still have a slam, hunter already melee beast, will have even more tools to beat your ass up.
The real issue is really the detection range for me, archer should be able to dodge sin if they see one, currently they can't due to the detection range. And make the lvl 45 and 50 bow more valuable, like add a longer distance shoot like longshot or maybe a shoot that can stun you for 3s for example.
Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑Tue 9 Apr 2019 7:28 PMdjegu wrote: ↑Tue 9 Apr 2019 6:24 PMI see your point, and you are right, sometimes i can run away from an archer but most of the time, by the time i see the target run to him, i take a slam and i'm done.
Ok now let's say they increase bow damage, what will happen ? Hybrid ranger will be stronger, that's mean they will do good dmg with bow and by the time you reach them in melee you'll have more than half your life taken away, scout with only 4 line of spec will have 50 in bow and still have a slam, hunter already melee beast, will have even more tools to beat your ass up.
The real issue is really the detection range for me, archer should be able to dodge sin if they see one, currently they can't due to the detection range. And make the lvl 45 and 50 bow more valuable, like add a longer distance shoot like longshot or maybe a shoot that can stun you for 3s for example.
From being on the receiving end, bow damage is pretty damn good. Been crit shot for over 800dps by a ranger on my Merc, hurt like a mofo.
The only thing I'd like to see is to make speccing higher then 35 bow worth while. The return margin on dps past 35 is shocking based on the feedback that's been presented. Adding in utility in the bow spec line (such as camouflage @ say 45 bow; among other ideas) would simultaneously give bow archers a reason to invest the points into higher bow while not adding in some unnecessary over powered feature that would need to be nerfed.
Live DAoC got into a lot of trouble with the amount of "escape" and "reset" abilities they implemented over the years.
qq6 wrote: ↑Wed 10 Apr 2019 3:54 AMGoing to poke the bear, here we go. Are there any active archers rr5+ that have problems with detection range here, like real i cant play problems or is it more of a, "would be cool to have it increased, but not going to change much"?
qq6 wrote: ↑Wed 10 Apr 2019 3:54 AMGoing to poke the bear, here we go. Are there any active archers rr5+ that have problems with detection range here, like real i cant play problems or is it more of a, "would be cool to have it increased, but not going to change much"?
Horus wrote: ↑Wed 10 Apr 2019 1:16 PMqq6 wrote: ↑Wed 10 Apr 2019 3:54 AMGoing to poke the bear, here we go. Are there any active archers rr5+ that have problems with detection range here, like real i cant play problems or is it more of a, "would be cool to have it increased, but not going to change much"?
RR5L6 here
I do. It is poor design to be safer moving at realm speed + endo pot than being able to stealth. Current setup means just food for assassins.
But I suspect once you are RR5+ you've been so conditioned to accept the class faults that you not longer care as much. Kind of like beaten spouse syndrome.
The archetype for an archer more than any other class here on Phoenix, is ridiculously far from its historical DaoC place as a feared ranged killer. If you like the server you just accept that and move on. Just don't expect to be playing an archer as you remember it or as it is on live. Nothing "classic" about it. Due to all the custom changes the class is relegated to being a minor ranged annoyance and RP fodder for stealthers. My poke the bear question would be "Does anyone actually fear archers? When you are moving solo unstealthed do you fear you might get sniped and actually get killed?" Because that is what they are supposed to be able to do. Hunt and kill solos at range. At the moment this can't be done unless the person is AFK, doesn't know how to play, or is already engaged in combat/distracted.
qq6 wrote: ↑Wed 10 Apr 2019 3:54 AMGoing to poke the bear, here we go. Are there any active archers rr5+ that have problems with detection range here, like real i cant play problems or is it more of a, "would be cool to have it increased, but not going to change much"?
Horus wrote: ↑Wed 10 Apr 2019 8:08 PMA question....why do archers do fine in Caledonia BG but seem to scale so poorly up to 50? Technically we are all still same level going against each other with the same level gear.
Horus wrote: ↑Wed 10 Apr 2019 8:08 PMA question....why do archers do fine in Caledonia BG but seem to scale so poorly up to 50? Technically we are all still same level going against each other with the same level gear.
AngelRose wrote: ↑Thu 11 Apr 2019 6:38 AM2. add self buffs to archery that are better then pots/charges. It would give archers a reason to spec in archery
Sepplord wrote: ↑Thu 11 Apr 2019 7:56 AMAngelRose wrote: ↑Thu 11 Apr 2019 6:38 AM2. add self buffs to archery that are better then pots/charges. It would give archers a reason to spec in archery
This sounds horribly OP and even if balance would be really bad gamedesing, considering ranger/hunter already have a selfbuff line, which is weaker than pots.
Giving them buffs stronger than pots would invalidate beastcraft/pathfinding even further
The other changes sound ok individually
stinsfire wrote: ↑Thu 11 Apr 2019 8:19 AMSepplord wrote: ↑Thu 11 Apr 2019 7:56 AMAngelRose wrote: ↑Thu 11 Apr 2019 6:38 AM2. add self buffs to archery that are better then pots/charges. It would give archers a reason to spec in archery
This sounds horribly OP and even if balance would be really bad gamedesing, considering ranger/hunter already have a selfbuff line, which is weaker than pots.
Giving them buffs stronger than pots would invalidate beastcraft/pathfinding even further
The other changes sound ok individually
As I mentioned in some threads self buffs in BC/PF should be 75 at max just like the thane self buff. Archery should recieve other benefits like rapid fire 2 giving damage bonus and not only a useless endu cost reduction. Maybe put longshot/volley or s.th in archery above lvl 4. Give penetrate arrow increasing chance to pen self-bt or sth and split it into levels. (e.g. 0%, 10%, 20%, 30%)
And again.. why are Devs ignoring the archer classes? They admitted they need to look it weeks ago, never gave an update, stopped responding to archer threads and ignore any question about archers directly aimed at them. Hello?! You massively buffed thane and we have a buffed earth wizard line, we are trying to make friars viable in group play and Hunter/Scout has been suffering since beta and ranger is only good because he can dual wield melee.
Please do something. Make bow above 35 worth speccing into, make BC/PF worth speccing into. How can you be fine with the only viable ARCHER specs being high melee, 27/35 archery, ignoring your class defining magic spec and using 75 d/q charges instead. Hunters just get a the objectively worst pet and a speed shout for dumping hundreds of points into it. And rangers get... a damage add and a speedshout
phixion wrote: ↑Thu 11 Apr 2019 5:39 PMArcher are fine, often hit for ludicrous amounts of damage by them.
waffel wrote: ↑Thu 11 Apr 2019 4:31 PMPretty spot on.
I think most everyone agrees that the first and most logical step is to make speccing in bow over 35 worthwhile. There are a variety of ways to do this that can start slow and build from there. An unconventional one I like is removing Longshot from RAs and putting it somewhere 40+ in bow.
Replace the Longshot RA with Point Blank/Quickshot. An uninterruptible/instant bow shot, with a cooldown, that can be used while being melee'd/interrupted. Give it a short range.
Reasoning: Longshot is weak and not deserving of SIX RA points. Point Blank/Quickshot may be too powerful to put in bow spec.
Also, any buffs to Beastcraft/PF need to come with something for Scouts. I'm not sure what or how, but right now I feel scouts have the least amount of toys and are extremely pigeonholed in their spec options. Having never played one, looking at the char plan for 30 seconds is depressing. Let me guess: 35 stealth, 35 bow, 42 shield, rest in Thrust or Blades? Yikes.
Dariussdars wrote: ↑Wed 10 Apr 2019 9:36 PMHorus wrote: ↑Wed 10 Apr 2019 8:08 PMA question....why do archers do fine in Caledonia BG but seem to scale so poorly up to 50? Technically we are all still same level going against each other with the same level gear.
Probably because speccing bow over 35 does basically nothing as far as damage goes. Archers damage peaks at level 35, and doesn't scale any further.
Weird how there appear to be no changes upcoming whatsoever, and this thread has basically been ignored despite numerous archers stating that something needs fixing.
stinsfire wrote: ↑Thu 11 Apr 2019 8:19 AMAs I mentioned in some threads self buffs in BC/PF should be 75 at max just like the thane self buff. Archery should recieve other benefits like rapid fire 2 giving damage bonus and not only a useless endu cost reduction. Maybe put longshot/volley or s.th in archery above lvl 40. Give penetrate arrow increasing chance to pen self-bt or sth and split it into levels. (e.g. 0%, 10%, 20%, 30%)
And again.. why are Devs ignoring the archer classes? They admitted they need to look at it weeks ago, never gave an update, stopped responding to archer threads and ignore any question about archers directly aimed at them. Hello?! You massively buffed thane and we have a buffed earth wizard line, we are trying to make friars viable in group play and Hunter/Scout has been suffering since beta and ranger is only good because he can dual wieldl melee.
Please do something. Make bow above 35 worth speccing into, make BC/PF worth speccing into. How can you be fine with the only viable ARCHER specs being high melee, 27/35 archery, ignoring your class defining magic spec and using 75 d/q charges instead. Hunters just get a the objectively worst pet and a speed shout for dumping hundreds of points into it. And rangers get... a damage add and a speedshout
cere2 wrote: ↑Thu 11 Apr 2019 11:21 PMEasy fixes:
1. equalize the stealth detection to 250 for sins and 250 for archers
2. add self buffs to archery that are better then pots/charges. It would give archers a reason to spec in archery
3. Tweak the pet. FFS - its a major aspect of the hunter and the pet is the worst pet on the server. It is easily out run or cc'd out. Give it either speed or a minor cc.
4. decrease the chance to be popped out of stealth by our own shots
kmark101 wrote: ↑Fri 12 Apr 2019 1:10 AMYes, they need sweet manlove maximum. Scouts/Rangers are constantly hitting me for 6-700 damage shots. Also, archers never miss for some reason. They are strong and need only nerf, if anything.
waffel wrote: ↑Fri 12 Apr 2019 2:17 AMkmark101 wrote: ↑Fri 12 Apr 2019 1:10 AMYes, they need sweet manlove maximum. Scouts/Rangers are constantly hitting me for 6-700 damage shots. Also, archers never miss for some reason. They are strong and need only nerf, if anything.
Damage is fine on sub 50 targets without buffs or a template, which I’m guessing you are based on the damage you listed.
Archers don’t miss, but they get evaded, blocked, bubbled, and interrupted by any offensive effect.
Anyway, we’re talking about big boy RvR where people have temps, buffs, and RAs. Once you get to that stage ya let us know your opinions.
waffel wrote: ↑Fri 12 Apr 2019 2:17 AMkmark101 wrote: ↑Fri 12 Apr 2019 1:10 AMYes, they need sweet manlove maximum. Scouts/Rangers are constantly hitting me for 6-700 damage shots. Also, archers never miss for some reason. They are strong and need only nerf, if anything.
Damage is fine on sub 50 targets without buffs or a template, which I’m guessing you are based on the damage you listed.
Archers don’t miss, but they get evaded, blocked, bubbled, and interrupted by any offensive effect.
Anyway, we’re talking about big boy RvR where people have temps, buffs, and RAs. Once you get to that stage ya let us know your opinions.
Emeryc wrote: ↑Fri 12 Apr 2019 12:08 AMstinsfire wrote: ↑Thu 11 Apr 2019 8:19 AMAs I mentioned in some threads self buffs in BC/PF should be 75 at max just like the thane self buff. Archery should recieve other benefits like rapid fire 2 giving damage bonus and not only a useless endu cost reduction. Maybe put longshot/volley or s.th in archery above lvl 40. Give penetrate arrow increasing chance to pen self-bt or sth and split it into levels. (e.g. 0%, 10%, 20%, 30%)
And again.. why are Devs ignoring the archer classes? They admitted they need to look at it weeks ago, never gave an update, stopped responding to archer threads and ignore any question about archers directly aimed at them. Hello?! You massively buffed thane and we have a buffed earth wizard line, we are trying to make friars viable in group play and Hunter/Scout has been suffering since beta and ranger is only good because he can dual wieldl melee.
Please do something. Make bow above 35 worth speccing into, make BC/PF worth speccing into. How can you be fine with the only viable ARCHER specs being high melee, 27/35 archery, ignoring your class defining magic spec and using 75 d/q charges instead. Hunters just get a the objectively worst pet and a speed shout for dumping hundreds of points into it. And rangers get... a damage add and a speedshout
This post pretty much wins the thread. I love the idea of giving RF2 a bonus... right now, it is absolutely useless.
Riac wrote: ↑Fri 12 Apr 2019 3:01 AMwaffel wrote: ↑Fri 12 Apr 2019 2:17 AMkmark101 wrote: ↑Fri 12 Apr 2019 1:10 AMYes, they need sweet manlove maximum. Scouts/Rangers are constantly hitting me for 6-700 damage shots. Also, archers never miss for some reason. They are strong and need only nerf, if anything.
Damage is fine on sub 50 targets without buffs or a template, which I’m guessing you are based on the damage you listed.
Archers don’t miss, but they get evaded, blocked, bubbled, and interrupted by any offensive effect.
Anyway, we’re talking about big boy RvR where people have temps, buffs, and RAs. Once you get to that stage ya let us know your opinions.
shortymode hit me for 660 just now and then a 400 followup. i assure you that i am temped and wearing an AF buff (leather armor)
tbh the way these albs are zerging and assisting shots i hope they nerf them just to spit in their eye.
If archers would start to miss just like any other class in the game, then that would be a good start. Why they cannot miss anyway? It's bows and arrows, not tracer missiles.... So what happens now, if I miraculously survive their initial burst and reach them? Yes you guessed it right, double miss.... and then they just finish me off laughing. And you are claiming that this is how it is supposed to be.
This just shows that you never played an archer and you have absolutely zero clue what you are talking about. Arrows can be negated by BT, blocked (60% block chance with engage), evaded, parried by valewalkers and you can be interrupted by DD procs and charges although you are ranged which makes you unable to shoot for seconds due to net having "quickshot" like casters have QC. Archery in reality has a high wayer miss rate than spells. If you are running towards an archer you have chance to evade of ~30% + you rupt him with charge once he isin range and then you can decide if you just want to run away or kill him while spamming /rofl.If archers would start to miss just like any other class in the game, then that would be a good start. Why they cannot miss anyway?
Using potions instead of 75 charges as an assassin... smhbuffed with combined forces potion
Yes, to me it seems that they are mostly doing things which are fun to develop and code right now. Who can blame them when they are all doing this for free :-/jhaerik wrote: ↑Fri 12 Apr 2019 4:51 AMEmeryc wrote: ↑Fri 12 Apr 2019 12:08 AMstinsfire wrote: ↑Thu 11 Apr 2019 8:19 AMAs I mentioned in some threads self buffs in BC/PF should be 75 at max just like the thane self buff. Archery should recieve other benefits like rapid fire 2 giving damage bonus and not only a useless endu cost reduction. Maybe put longshot/volley or s.th in archery above lvl 40. Give penetrate arrow increasing chance to pen self-bt or sth and split it into levels. (e.g. 0%, 10%, 20%, 30%)
And again.. why are Devs ignoring the archer classes? They admitted they need to look at it weeks ago, never gave an update, stopped responding to archer threads and ignore any question about archers directly aimed at them. Hello?! You massively buffed thane and we have a buffed earth wizard line, we are trying to make friars viable in group play and Hunter/Scout has been suffering since beta and ranger is only good because he can dual wieldl melee.
Please do something. Make bow above 35 worth speccing into, make BC/PF worth speccing into. How can you be fine with the only viable ARCHER specs being high melee, 27/35 archery, ignoring your class defining magic spec and using 75 d/q charges instead. Hunters just get a the objectively worst pet and a speed shout for dumping hundreds of points into it. And rangers get... a damage add and a speedshout
This post pretty much wins the thread. I love the idea of giving RF2 a bonus... right now, it is absolutely useless.
Why? Because they are too damn busy adding ToA zones, race respecs for people too dumb to pick the correct race to begin with, and live-like pve instances to worry about unimportant things like RvR.
stinsfire wrote: ↑Fri 12 Apr 2019 7:11 AMRiac wrote: ↑Fri 12 Apr 2019 3:01 AMwaffel wrote: ↑Fri 12 Apr 2019 2:17 AMDamage is fine on sub 50 targets without buffs or a template, which I’m guessing you are based on the damage you listed.
Archers don’t miss, but they get evaded, blocked, bubbled, and interrupted by any offensive effect.
Anyway, we’re talking about big boy RvR where people have temps, buffs, and RAs. Once you get to that stage ya let us know your opinions.
shortymode hit me for 660 just now and then a 400 followup. i assure you that i am temped and wearing an AF buff (leather armor)
tbh the way these albs are zerging and assisting shots i hope they nerf them just to spit in their eye.
And how often does he unstealth you and then shoot you wih arrows? How many 1on1 did you lose vs him? For how much damage does your PA hit him and how often do you uncover him and burst him down with a PA? Do you have a DD charge for ez interrupt and then running away or engaging depending on the range?
btw using one of the top RR archers as proof of something being op..lol. Guess 2h Savages should receive a nerf too.. fkng OP... once you hit RR8.If archers would start to miss just like any other class in the game, then that would be a good start. Why they cannot miss anyway? It's bows and arrows, not tracer missiles.... So what happens now, if I miraculously survive their initial burst and reach them? Yes you guessed it right, double miss.... and then they just finish me off laughing. And you are claiming that this is how it is supposed to be.
If you are losing fights as an assassin vs anything else than a high RR melee ranger who dumps 3 active RAs just to beat you, well.. then you are not very good at the game. Double miss? Wtf are you talking about? Hunters and Rangers have god awful defense.. base parry and evade3. And if anyone is double missing it will be the scout who has to go through baseparry+max evade while you have bonus defense penetration vs shield. They are going to miss twice as much on you. You have like 30% vs 12% evade or sth. And why do you not rupt him with a charge?This just shows that you never played an archer and you have absolutely zero clue what you are talking about. Arrows can be negated by BT, blocked (60% block chance with engage), evaded, parried by valewalkers and you can be interrupted by DD procs although you are ranged which makes you unable to shoot for seconds. Archery in reality has a high wayer miss rate than spells. If you are running towards an archer you have chance to evade of ~30% + parry + you rupt him with charge once he isin range and then you can decide if you just want to run away or kill him while spamming /rofl.If archers would start to miss just like any other class in the game, then that would be a good start. Why they cannot miss anyway?
phixion wrote: ↑Fri 12 Apr 2019 2:37 AM
So are you saying a class which can do such damage at range, and wear studded armor, should also be able to engage stealthed enemies first?
cere2 wrote: ↑Fri 12 Apr 2019 2:03 PMphixion wrote: ↑Fri 12 Apr 2019 2:37 AMcere2 wrote: ↑Thu 11 Apr 2019 11:36 PMSays the SB who gets a free PA almost every time. Wonder how your win/loss ratio would be if you lost that advantage.
So are you saying a class which can do such damage at range, and wear studded armor, should also be able to engage stealthed enemies first?
I'm saying that range should be 250 each, not 125 for archer and 250 for sin. Which would mean....archer doesn't have time to get shot off, but assassin doesn't get a free PA/BS like they do now. It's a joke.
Riac wrote: ↑Fri 12 Apr 2019 3:01 AMwaffel wrote: ↑Fri 12 Apr 2019 2:17 AMkmark101 wrote: ↑Fri 12 Apr 2019 1:10 AMYes, they need sweet manlove maximum. Scouts/Rangers are constantly hitting me for 6-700 damage shots. Also, archers never miss for some reason. They are strong and need only nerf, if anything.
Damage is fine on sub 50 targets without buffs or a template, which I’m guessing you are based on the damage you listed.
Archers don’t miss, but they get evaded, blocked, bubbled, and interrupted by any offensive effect.
Anyway, we’re talking about big boy RvR where people have temps, buffs, and RAs. Once you get to that stage ya let us know your opinions.
shortymode hit me for 660 just now and then a 400 followup. i assure you that i am temped and wearing an AF buff (leather armor)
tbh the way these albs are zerging and assisting shots i hope they nerf them just to spit in their eye.
stinsfire wrote: ↑Fri 12 Apr 2019 7:11 AMRiac wrote: ↑Fri 12 Apr 2019 3:01 AMwaffel wrote: ↑Fri 12 Apr 2019 2:17 AMDamage is fine on sub 50 targets without buffs or a template, which I’m guessing you are based on the damage you listed.
Archers don’t miss, but they get evaded, blocked, bubbled, and interrupted by any offensive effect.
Anyway, we’re talking about big boy RvR where people have temps, buffs, and RAs. Once you get to that stage ya let us know your opinions.
shortymode hit me for 660 just now and then a 400 followup. i assure you that i am temped and wearing an AF buff (leather armor)
tbh the way these albs are zerging and assisting shots i hope they nerf them just to spit in their eye.
And how often does he unstealth you and then shoot you wih arrows? How many 1on1 did you lose vs him? For how much damage does your PA hit him and how often do you uncover him and burst him down with a PA? Do you have a DD charge for ez interrupt and then running away or engaging depending on the range?
btw using one of the top RR archers as proof of something being op..lol. Guess 2h Savages should receive a nerf too.. fkng OP... once you hit RR8.If archers would start to miss just like any other class in the game, then that would be a good start. Why they cannot miss anyway? It's bows and arrows, not tracer missiles.... So what happens now, if I miraculously survive their initial burst and reach them? Yes you guessed it right, double miss.... and then they just finish me off laughing. And you are claiming that this is how it is supposed to be.
If you are losing fights as an assassin vs anything else than a high RR melee ranger who dumps 3 active RAs just to beat you, well.. then you are not very good at the game. Double miss? Wtf are you talking about? Hunters and Rangers have god awful defense.. base parry and evade3. And if anyone is double missing it will be the scout who has to go through baseparry+max evade while you have bonus defense penetration vs shield. They are going to miss twice as much on you. You have like 30% vs 12% evade or sth. And why do you not rupt him with a charge?This just shows that you never played an archer and you have absolutely zero clue what you are talking about. Arrows can be negated by BT, blocked (60% block chance with engage), evaded, parried by valewalkers and you can be interrupted by DD procs and charges although you are ranged which makes you unable to shoot for seconds due to net having "quickshot" like casters have QC. Archery in reality has a high wayer miss rate than spells. If you are running towards an archer you have chance to evade of ~30% + you rupt him with charge once he isin range and then you can decide if you just want to run away or kill him while spamming /rofl.If archers would start to miss just like any other class in the game, then that would be a good start. Why they cannot miss anyway?
Plus an archer has no way of controlling the fight. If he attacks you at long range you just walk out of his range and if he attacks you at close range you can rupt him and then kill him. Btw archers have already been nerfed: no PD, no MOS stealth detection, pet uncovers you on entering combat state(which was only introduced after they made pets really strong with styles and procs). If you truly think that archers need a nerf, then you are bad and salty because of your own incompetence.Using potions instead of 75 charges as an assassin... smhbuffed with combined forces potion
Mauriac wrote: ↑Sat 13 Apr 2019 9:20 PMarchers need absolutely nothing right now.
you can critshot people in combat
you can easily do 1.5 sec attacks for 350+ with bow while getting a massive range boost from standing on a gopher mound
and you whine because your stl detection is basically the equivalent of melee range shorter than sins. gtfo
Emeryc wrote: ↑Sat 13 Apr 2019 11:43 PMMauriac wrote: ↑Sat 13 Apr 2019 9:20 PMarchers need absolutely nothing right now.
you can critshot people in combat
you can easily do 1.5 sec attacks for 350+ with bow while getting a massive range boost from standing on a gopher mound
and you whine because your stl detection is basically the equivalent of melee range shorter than sins. gtfo
Untrue, untrue and untrue. Are we done here?
Mauriac wrote: ↑Sat 13 Apr 2019 9:20 PMarchers need absolutely nothing right now.
you can critshot people in combat
you can easily do 1.5 sec attacks for 350+ with bow while getting a massive range boost from standing on a gopher mound
and you whine because your stl detection is basically the equivalent of melee range shorter than sins. gtfo
waffel wrote: ↑Sun 14 Apr 2019 12:39 AMMauriac wrote: ↑Sat 13 Apr 2019 9:20 PMarchers need absolutely nothing right now.
you can critshot people in combat
you can easily do 1.5 sec attacks for 350+ with bow while getting a massive range boost from standing on a gopher mound
and you whine because your stl detection is basically the equivalent of melee range shorter than sins. gtfo
You can’t crit shot people in melee combat. You can only crit someone once every 15 seconds. This is all stated on the wiki. If you feel it’s different, post logs (hint: it works that way. Source: I’ve fired probably 1k crit shots)
1.5 attack speed is from rapid fire. 5.5 speed bow, rapid firing @ 1.5 speed requires: 250 quick (quickness cap) 75 dex/quick charge, combined buffs, and a few levels of mastery of archery RA.
That said, nobody (even casters) get hit for 300 every shot from rapid fire if you’re 50 with buffs and a template. Again, if you think I’m wrong post logs. Source: I’ve fired probably 3k rapid fire bow shots
Now that we’ve cleared up some lies: I FEEL
BOW DAMAGE IS FINE. What is not fine is the interruptions archers face (along with unaware targets standing AFK evading crits), and bow line being lackluster. Stealth detection sucks but I can live with it.
Riac wrote: ↑Sun 14 Apr 2019 12:56 AMhes right about the rapid fire, i look at log and i get hit for about 200-240 with my af buff up.
noflex wrote: ↑Sun 14 Apr 2019 2:48 AMRiac wrote: ↑Sun 14 Apr 2019 12:56 AMhes right about the rapid fire, i look at log and i get hit for about 200-240 with my af buff up.
he said 1.5 seconds for 350+
so no.. hes not right
im 45 bow and have red dmg add from PF and 5.2 speed bow so my rapid fire shots range from 80-100 on tanks to 175-200 on casters (that's with dmg add which on rapid fire gets cut in half.. so instead of 25dmg its 12 extra dmg)
waffel wrote: ↑Sun 14 Apr 2019 12:39 AMMauriac wrote: ↑Sat 13 Apr 2019 9:20 PMarchers need absolutely nothing right now.
you can critshot people in combat
you can easily do 1.5 sec attacks for 350+ with bow while getting a massive range boost from standing on a gopher mound
and you whine because your stl detection is basically the equivalent of melee range shorter than sins. gtfo
You can’t crit shot people in melee combat. You can only crit someone once every 15 seconds. This is all stated on the wiki. If you feel it’s different, post logs (hint: it works that way. Source: I’ve fired probably 1k crit shots)
1.5 attack speed is from rapid fire. 5.5 speed bow, rapid firing @ 1.5 speed requires: 250 quick (quickness cap) 75 dex/quick charge, combined buffs, and a few levels of mastery of archery RA.
That said, nobody (even casters) get hit for 300 every shot from rapid fire if you’re 50 with buffs and a template. Again, if you think I’m wrong post logs. Source: I’ve fired probably 3k rapid fire bow shots
Now that we’ve cleared up some lies: I FEEL
BOW DAMAGE IS FINE. What is not fine is the interruptions archers face (along with unaware targets standing AFK evading crits), and bow line being lackluster. Stealth detection sucks but I can live with it.
Mauriac wrote: ↑Sun 14 Apr 2019 5:14 PMwaffel wrote: ↑Sun 14 Apr 2019 12:39 AMMauriac wrote: ↑Sat 13 Apr 2019 9:20 PMarchers need absolutely nothing right now.
you can critshot people in combat
you can easily do 1.5 sec attacks for 350+ with bow while getting a massive range boost from standing on a gopher mound
and you whine because your stl detection is basically the equivalent of melee range shorter than sins. gtfo
You can’t crit shot people in melee combat. You can only crit someone once every 15 seconds. This is all stated on the wiki. If you feel it’s different, post logs (hint: it works that way. Source: I’ve fired probably 1k crit shots)
1.5 attack speed is from rapid fire. 5.5 speed bow, rapid firing @ 1.5 speed requires: 250 quick (quickness cap) 75 dex/quick charge, combined buffs, and a few levels of mastery of archery RA.
That said, nobody (even casters) get hit for 300 every shot from rapid fire if you’re 50 with buffs and a template. Again, if you think I’m wrong post logs. Source: I’ve fired probably 3k rapid fire bow shots
Now that we’ve cleared up some lies: I FEEL
BOW DAMAGE IS FINE. What is not fine is the interruptions archers face (along with unaware targets standing AFK evading crits), and bow line being lackluster. Stealth detection sucks but I can live with it.
you can in fact critshot people in combat. it is probably harder for you as a ranger though ill give you that. watch scouts / mincers sometime. mincer engages, hits target with stun while scout hits target with a critshot as mincer beats the brakes off him. its a real thing
noflex wrote: ↑Mon 15 Apr 2019 7:18 AMMauriac wrote: ↑Sun 14 Apr 2019 5:14 PMwaffel wrote: ↑Sun 14 Apr 2019 12:39 AMYou can’t crit shot people in melee combat. You can only crit someone once every 15 seconds. This is all stated on the wiki. If you feel it’s different, post logs (hint: it works that way. Source: I’ve fired probably 1k crit shots)
1.5 attack speed is from rapid fire. 5.5 speed bow, rapid firing @ 1.5 speed requires: 250 quick (quickness cap) 75 dex/quick charge, combined buffs, and a few levels of mastery of archery RA.
That said, nobody (even casters) get hit for 300 every shot from rapid fire if you’re 50 with buffs and a template. Again, if you think I’m wrong post logs. Source: I’ve fired probably 3k rapid fire bow shots
Now that we’ve cleared up some lies: I FEEL
BOW DAMAGE IS FINE. What is not fine is the interruptions archers face (along with unaware targets standing AFK evading crits), and bow line being lackluster. Stealth detection sucks but I can live with it.
you can in fact critshot people in combat. it is probably harder for you as a ranger though ill give you that. watch scouts / mincers sometime. mincer engages, hits target with stun while scout hits target with a critshot as mincer beats the brakes off him. its a real thing
being stunned your no longer in combat, just like if a scout slams target, or a ranger side stun or hunter rear stun style's they can crit all the same because target is stunned and immobile and not in active combat
Tamy wrote: ↑Tue 16 Apr 2019 7:49 AMRemedy was one of the worst "inventions" ever (just wanted to state that out even if you were just sarcastic)
Just get rid of this ridicolous and completely unjustified stealth advantage of sins and add some tools as incentive to spec higher than 35 bow (like adding volley/longshot etc. to the bow lines) and I'm totally fine.
But it seems not to happen anything anyway...
mhenfhis wrote: ↑Tue 16 Apr 2019 9:50 AMTamy wrote: ↑Tue 16 Apr 2019 7:49 AMRemedy was one of the worst "inventions" ever (just wanted to state that out even if you were just sarcastic)
Just get rid of this ridicolous and completely unjustified stealth advantage of sins and add some tools as incentive to spec higher than 35 bow (like adding volley/longshot etc. to the bow lines) and I'm totally fine.
But it seems not to happen anything anyway...
No, i am not joking, remedy is a good ability.
Should be passive on assasins and on a 5min cd on Archers. Remedy gives at least a little room for archers to stand vs assasins, even more with the buffed env line they have here.
Tamy wrote: ↑Tue 16 Apr 2019 10:36 AMmhenfhis wrote: ↑Tue 16 Apr 2019 9:50 AMTamy wrote: ↑Tue 16 Apr 2019 7:49 AMRemedy was one of the worst "inventions" ever (just wanted to state that out even if you were just sarcastic)
Just get rid of this ridicolous and completely unjustified stealth advantage of sins and add some tools as incentive to spec higher than 35 bow (like adding volley/longshot etc. to the bow lines) and I'm totally fine.
But it seems not to happen anything anyway...
No, i am not joking, remedy is a good ability.
Should be passive on assasins and on a 5min cd on Archers. Remedy gives at least a little room for archers to stand vs assasins, even more with the buffed env line they have here.
Sorry, but I have to disagree strongly. Passive on assassins nice...so basically you punish the "skilled" assassins (weapon switch) in there sin vs sin fights and the archers only gain an advantage vs. one specific class. We can do it like on live where everyone is forced to spec 50 stealth due to remedy for a skill that only helps you vs. one class and basically removes another skill-line in which you specced 30+ (env).
But I'm pretty sure they would never introduce Remedy or at least I hope so.
Tamy wrote: ↑Tue 16 Apr 2019 2:56 PMWhat are you exactly talking about? I never said something about the strength of envenom. I think it's even stronger here than on live (even with the recent nerf). The switch on live towards magical poisons and these cool downs was more a nerf than a buff.
I still would hate the introduction of remedy (and I'm saying that as a Scout player).
qq6 wrote: ↑Tue 16 Apr 2019 5:42 PMcere he has the stealth pot buff for half the vid......... :X, the fight where he jumped telco, he didnt even land pa, if u think that was enough time to land the pa, ye maybe, but he is RR8 and he didnt... so... anyway, i know i've been opposing you about this from the start, and you do have a point and i'd love it if we had equal detection... but in reality its not that big a deal, if you just play and get used to dodging / turning at the right time. This past week, i think i got PA'd once... by an infi that was rr4ish, and i do meet a lot of assassins, perhaps it shows that its not all about the range?
qq6 wrote: ↑Tue 16 Apr 2019 5:42 PMcere he has the stealth pot buff for half the vid......... :X, the fight where he jumped telco, he didnt even land pa, if u think that was enough time to land the pa, ye maybe, but he is RR8 and he didnt... so... anyway, i know i've been opposing you about this from the start, and you do have a point and i'd love it if we had equal detection... but in reality its not that big a deal, if you just play and get used to dodging / turning at the right time. This past week, i think i got PA'd once... by an infi that was rr4ish, and i do meet a lot of assassins, perhaps it shows that its not all about the range?
on a side note, i hate watching vids of daoc, cos very very rarely u get to see fights, with all cds and buffs up on both, i'll watch it again tomorrow cos i am just dead atm.
i could make a vid aswell and show u how much range matters really, where they just dont get to hit first even with the added range, or how i just stand there on a hill and shoot 20+ ppl one after another, but who wants to watch that, its boring as hell..
noflex wrote: ↑Tue 16 Apr 2019 11:53 PMyaman that inchai vid at 1:30 is funny, that detection range (he has no SL pot up then) is bonkers
qq6 wrote: ↑Wed 17 Apr 2019 1:08 AMI rewatched the vid, @ 1:30 he has stealth lore up. The only fight that matters there, is vs Telco, imo, and the last one vs Homefryjr. vs Telco range seems smaller cos they are walking more or less towards each other, vs Home its pretty massive i have to admit, will have to ask him if he has max stealth there. It matters a lot at which angle you come in, just like being hit in melee, some angles have a bigger range.
I am not so much opposed to what you are saying, as i am just saying, get out there, and just stick with it, you will find a way to play. Stick to 1 char, get over the fact that you will die in the game, and just go out. You want to play archery, go out and just find a spot, shoot some ppl, die, go again. I did write that 90% of my kills do come from bow, so i dont see why you cant do the same, lag at range shouldnt matter.
Sepplord wrote: ↑Wed 17 Apr 2019 7:00 AMsounds like archers could use stealthlore pots to easily avoid assassins
Lillebror wrote: ↑Wed 17 Apr 2019 7:38 AMSepplord wrote: ↑Wed 17 Apr 2019 7:00 AMsounds like archers could use stealthlore pots to easily avoid assassins
Why on earth should they have to. (i tested it, was 400g for 10pcs for a while on cm) and you will go broke fast since its short duration ofc and should be.
If i as a minstrel uses one, an Assassin still see the minstrel at close to the doble range.
Stimmed wrote: ↑Wed 17 Apr 2019 7:55 AMJust give archers the same stealth as Assassins.
Make it so anyone with stealth cant use SL potions.
Make hunters pets do something/give hunters something to help them slightly. Hunters are basically fodder atm unless they catch you running.
I mean you cant ever make it so archers are on par with assassins in melee. But at least if your not eating a PA every single fight and you got your big Ras up. It should be a closer fight. RNG on evades will always cuck someone though etc.
Kappu wrote: ↑Thu 18 Apr 2019 7:04 PMAssassins should always see an Archer/Minstrel first. There is zero logical reason why either should be on par with assassins.
Beastcraft does give you an advantage in a duel it cuts chance to evade in half. It has a decent buff line which is the main reason aside from pet to use it.
Archery is fine if you spec into it you get damage, though I do agree they should add a little flare to it just so it's interesting.
Kappu wrote: ↑Thu 18 Apr 2019 7:04 PMAssassins should always see an Archer/Minstrel first. There is zero logical reason why either should be on par with assassins.
Beastcraft does give you an advantage in a duel it cuts chance to evade in half. It has a decent buff line which is the main reason aside from pet to use it.
Archery is fine if you spec into it you get damage, though I do agree they should add a little flare to it just so it's interesting.
AngelRose wrote: ↑Thu 18 Apr 2019 7:28 PMKappu wrote: ↑Thu 18 Apr 2019 7:04 PMAssassins should always see an Archer/Minstrel first. There is zero logical reason why either should be on par with assassins.
Beastcraft does give you an advantage in a duel it cuts chance to evade in half. It has a decent buff line which is the main reason aside from pet to use it.
Archery is fine if you spec into it you get damage, though I do agree they should add a little flare to it just so it's interesting.
This really is a clueless post. Charges and pots give better buffs then a spec line. The pet is useless. There is no reason to spec high in either archery or BS for an archer with a pet....LOL
And the stealth detection is a joke. There is zero logic that sins have better detection then archers.
Auranyte wrote: ↑Thu 18 Apr 2019 8:57 PMAngelRose wrote: ↑Thu 18 Apr 2019 7:28 PMKappu wrote: ↑Thu 18 Apr 2019 7:04 PMAssassins should always see an Archer/Minstrel first. There is zero logical reason why either should be on par with assassins.
Beastcraft does give you an advantage in a duel it cuts chance to evade in half. It has a decent buff line which is the main reason aside from pet to use it.
Archery is fine if you spec into it you get damage, though I do agree they should add a little flare to it just so it's interesting.
This really is a clueless post. Charges and pots give better buffs then a spec line. The pet is useless. There is no reason to spec high in either archery or BS for an archer with a pet....LOL
And the stealth detection is a joke. There is zero logic that sins have better detection then archers.
Charges do give better than beastcraft/pathfinding. But the pots are worse depending on spec. For a hunter getting 32 BC for their insta puppy, the dex/qui buff is better than the pot. Their lvl 30 dex/qui buff should give 42 dex/qui vs the pots 39 dex/qui. (only 3 points at that point but still better and lasts twice as long) Speccing for buffs gives the buff delve value a 1.25 times modifier. If the hunter goes 40 BC for whatever reason they will get 52 dex/qui from their buff.
The same applies to Ranger Pathfinding buffs. The only thing I am uncertain on, is if the spec AF buff delve also gets the 1.25 multiplier or not. If it does, it might better than an af charge. (I forget the values on spec af atm)
semadin wrote: ↑Thu 18 Apr 2019 9:28 PMAuranyte wrote: ↑Thu 18 Apr 2019 8:57 PMAngelRose wrote: ↑Thu 18 Apr 2019 7:28 PMThis really is a clueless post. Charges and pots give better buffs then a spec line. The pet is useless. There is no reason to spec high in either archery or BS for an archer with a pet....LOL
And the stealth detection is a joke. There is zero logic that sins have better detection then archers.
Charges do give better than beastcraft/pathfinding. But the pots are worse depending on spec. For a hunter getting 32 BC for their insta puppy, the dex/qui buff is better than the pot. Their lvl 30 dex/qui buff should give 42 dex/qui vs the pots 39 dex/qui. (only 3 points at that point but still better and lasts twice as long) Speccing for buffs gives the buff delve value a 1.25 times modifier. If the hunter goes 40 BC for whatever reason they will get 52 dex/qui from their buff.
The same applies to Ranger Pathfinding buffs. The only thing I am uncertain on, is if the spec AF buff delve also gets the 1.25 multiplier or not. If it does, it might better than an af charge. (I forget the values on spec af atm)
The AF buff does get the modifier, and the red AF is better than the charge by 5 points. Definitely not worth the spec points, especially when you consider everyone out there is running buff pots at a base level, so even if you do spec low 30s to get the technically 'better' buffs (in PF, the spec dex/qui at 29 gets you 2 more dex/qui than the pot buffs), you have to consider that you are spending all those points to have zero effect on the fight. If you do spec higher, you have to spend a far greater amount of spec points for what amounts to a marginal stat advantage.
The buffs in BC and PF, from a spec perspective, only make sense in a world where everyone else who doesn't have the ability to buff themselves isn't buffed (or is grouped, and that's a different scenario altogether). Right now it makes far more sense to even just use base buff pots (not even counting charges, which surpass the spec line buffs), and then put your spec points in the actual ability spec lines to get your value and advantage.
If they changed high level BC and PF to include full lines of buffs which far surpassed pots/charges, then we'd be looking at a scenario that was more like the original crafted design of the classes.
Mavella wrote: ↑Thu 18 Apr 2019 11:32 PMSpear beyond comp 52 can and will raise Hunter weaponskill allowing them to bypass defenses more effectively. Not exactly useless when fighting vs evade 7 sins and 42 shield scouts.
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑Fri 19 Apr 2019 7:46 PMMavella wrote: ↑Thu 18 Apr 2019 11:32 PMSpear beyond comp 52 can and will raise Hunter weaponskill allowing them to bypass defenses more effectively. Not exactly useless when fighting vs evade 7 sins and 42 shield scouts.
Name, just let them spec low Spear/Sword and then whine about their pathetic melee. It just makes too much sense for them to spec high Spear/Sword and wreck shit. Easier to whine.
Kappu wrote: ↑Fri 19 Apr 2019 10:52 PMSee Hidden was in the game you used to be able to see Archers/Minstrels in Classic at clip plane. It goes to show you obviously didn't play the game long enough ago.
Assassins should always have better detection that's kind of the point of being an assassin in any game or mythical lore. This is what the game is based on by the way.
Mastery of Stealth was a busted ass feature added in when they redid RA's and New Frontiers that made it so that Archers with high MOS RA could see assassins. This was one of the biggest gripes assassins had with the new change.
You all need to go back and look at the classic abilities.........
cere2 wrote: ↑Fri 19 Apr 2019 11:18 PMKappu wrote: ↑Fri 19 Apr 2019 10:52 PMSee Hidden was in the game you used to be able to see Archers/Minstrels in Classic at clip plane. It goes to show you obviously didn't play the game long enough ago.
Assassins should always have better detection that's kind of the point of being an assassin in any game or mythical lore. This is what the game is based on by the way.
Mastery of Stealth was a busted ass feature added in when they redid RA's and New Frontiers that made it so that Archers with high MOS RA could see assassins. This was one of the biggest gripes assassins had with the new change.
You all need to go back and look at the classic abilities.........
Yes I think you do Kappu, and BS about clip range stealth detection on assassin. That happened when people didn't have comp 50 stealth, before anyone knew wtf they were doing....gimme a break. Once people templated...which was months after launch, then comp stealth started to be a thing.
You want to see classic abilities, ok let's do that. Starting off archers with....Avoid Pain....I'll take that, how about dodger I'll take that too.....camouflage...yeah sounds good....truesight....oh please yes.....should I then go on to archer class RA's that we don't have either?
MOS was trainable by all stealth classes. Assassin's just whined because they couldn't go all offensive RA's like they can now...If they didn't want to be detected by archer's they also had to train MOS....
I mean, if you want to compare classic to this? Not even in the same country.
AngelRose wrote: ↑Fri 19 Apr 2019 9:20 PMCadebrennus wrote: ↑Fri 19 Apr 2019 7:46 PMMavella wrote: ↑Thu 18 Apr 2019 11:32 PMSpear beyond comp 52 can and will raise Hunter weaponskill allowing them to bypass defenses more effectively. Not exactly useless when fighting vs evade 7 sins and 42 shield scouts.
Name, just let them spec low Spear/Sword and then whine about their pathetic melee. It just makes too much sense for them to spec high Spear/Sword and wreck shit. Easier to whine.
Didn't you post that hunter melee damage is comparable to ranger melee damage?
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑Fri 19 Apr 2019 11:45 PMAngelRose wrote: ↑Fri 19 Apr 2019 9:20 PMCadebrennus wrote: ↑Fri 19 Apr 2019 7:46 PMName, just let them spec low Spear/Sword and then whine about their pathetic melee. It just makes too much sense for them to spec high Spear/Sword and wreck shit. Easier to whine.
Didn't you post that hunter melee damage is comparable to ranger melee damage?
Yes, and that's WITHOUT adding in pet damage. Yes, it was tested by me and a few others. Confirmed.
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑Fri 19 Apr 2019 11:45 PMAngelRose wrote: ↑Fri 19 Apr 2019 9:20 PMCadebrennus wrote: ↑Fri 19 Apr 2019 7:46 PMName, just let them spec low Spear/Sword and then whine about their pathetic melee. It just makes too much sense for them to spec high Spear/Sword and wreck shit. Easier to whine.
Didn't you post that hunter melee damage is comparable to ranger melee damage?
Yes, and that's WITHOUT adding in pet damage. Yes, it was tested by me and a few others. Confirmed.
t4coops wrote: ↑Sat 20 Apr 2019 4:04 PM
damn scout slammed me then hit me for 597 no crit out of stealth, seems they got pretty good dmg to me... lol
qq6 wrote: ↑Sat 20 Apr 2019 3:18 PMWhat i wanna know, is .... who is Akopra, he doesnt play my timezone, but, thats the only hunter that shows up on herald, with all the hunters going "we cant kill", he must be killing some 50s to be getting those rps, could we get him on here to give us a few lines?
AngelRose wrote: ↑Fri 19 Apr 2019 11:36 PMcere2 wrote: ↑Fri 19 Apr 2019 11:18 PMKappu wrote: ↑Fri 19 Apr 2019 10:52 PMSee Hidden was in the game you used to be able to see Archers/Minstrels in Classic at clip plane. It goes to show you obviously didn't play the game long enough ago.
Assassins should always have better detection that's kind of the point of being an assassin in any game or mythical lore. This is what the game is based on by the way.
Mastery of Stealth was a busted ass feature added in when they redid RA's and New Frontiers that made it so that Archers with high MOS RA could see assassins. This was one of the biggest gripes assassins had with the new change.
You all need to go back and look at the classic abilities.........
Yes I think you do Kappu, and BS about clip range stealth detection on assassin. That happened when people didn't have comp 50 stealth, before anyone knew wtf they were doing....gimme a break. Once people templated...which was months after launch, then comp stealth started to be a thing.
You want to see classic abilities, ok let's do that. Starting off archers with....Avoid Pain....I'll take that, how about dodger I'll take that too.....camouflage...yeah sounds good....truesight....oh please yes.....should I then go on to archer class RA's that we don't have either?
MOS was trainable by all stealth classes. Assassin's just whined because they couldn't go all offensive RA's like they can now...If they didn't want to be detected by archer's they also had to train MOS....
I mean, if you want to compare classic to this? Not even in the same country.
I wish the devs would talk to you about archers. You responses are spot on, with facts not emotions.
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑Sat 20 Apr 2019 9:33 PM
Sure. I'm pretty sure I have screenshots on my computer. Problem is my gaming PC with the screenshots on the hard drive is in Los Angeles and I'm going to be in Europe for at least another month. How patient are you?
Or you could simply get a melee specced Hunter and a melee Specced Ranger to run some new dummy tests and they can post their screenshots instead of always waiting for someone else to do all of the testing work for you.
stinsfire wrote: ↑Sat 20 Apr 2019 9:36 PMCadebrennus wrote: ↑Sat 20 Apr 2019 9:33 PM
Sure. I'm pretty sure I have screenshots on my computer. Problem is my gaming PC with the screenshots on the hard drive is in Los Angeles and I'm going to be in Europe for at least another month. How patient are you?
Or you could simply get a melee specced Hunter and a melee Specced Ranger to run some new dummy tests and they can post their screenshots instead of always waiting for someone else to do all of the testing work for you.
So you concluded Hunter and Ranger melee perfomance is the same by doing tests on dummies?! lol
Or did you just conclude that a hunter can do the same damage as a ranger to a defenseless testdummy?
If the second is the case... thats pretty irrelevant.
Yes, that's how tests are done. Remove for variables, review raw data.
Of course, there's the fact that my Hunter could put a target down faster than my Ranger could in pure melee during the PvP beta event. But no one wants to hear about that.
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑Sat 20 Apr 2019 9:46 PMYes, that's how tests are done. Remove for variables, review raw data.
Of course, there's the fact that my Hunter could put a target down faster than my Ranger could in pure melee during the PvP beta event. But no one wants to hear about that.
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑Sun 21 Apr 2019 12:02 AMI honestly don't have time anymore to go back and re-test something every time a knuckle dragger posts something moronic denying stuff that's already been tested and posted. Use the search function or simply go through the old posts yourself. I have more important things going on and it's the toxic players like yourselves that keep me from bothering with this game anymore.
Padatoo wrote: ↑Sun 21 Apr 2019 12:41 AMCadebrennus wrote: ↑Sun 21 Apr 2019 12:02 AMI honestly don't have time anymore to go back and re-test something every time a knuckle dragger posts something moronic denying stuff that's already been tested and posted. Use the search function or simply go through the old posts yourself. I have more important things going on and it's the toxic players like yourselves that keep me from bothering with this game anymore.
I actually did a search,and you keep parroting the same stuff,without providing any non-anecdotal evidence "It was tested ,i swear!",since january.
And now you lashing out instead of giving a reasonable answer or backing your words in other way...........gtfo shithead.
I did find some usefull info from gruenes_schaf regarding AF changes tho
skulllz wrote: ↑Tue 19 Feb 2019 4:38 AMabsolute delusion going on to those that think dual wield is not far superior to 2h at this patch level. should berserkers all spec full 2h then? it's better to penetrate defenses / you get twice the proc chance on a server with very low hps / rangers get side and back snares and evade stun and side stun while the hunter gets either ONLY a back stun -or- ONLY an evade stun depending what they spec. BTW, those specs are at 25 and below on any of the 3 ranger lines and only at 39 on either hunter melee spec. the dog is pure dog sh*t (no pun intended) - it adds one unstyled 70 dmg swing on the first initial run through and then never hits again due to base run speed if you are a kiter/archer, or maybe hits another 2-3 times if you full melee... this dmg is even less than the equivalent from self dmg add rangers get and the slightly higher str buff than the potion.
I can no longer be nice about this, but ultimately all of your "rvr experience" is so obviously biased (yes, I actually have played all archetypes in both this server and in real life OF - hunter is by far the most well-known gimped pile of garbage).
The more we debate and argue instead of come up with suggestions for how to improve all archery (stealthing in general, even, if you desire) the less incentive a Dev has to take any of us serious since we're already undercutting each other's abilities (or blowing them out of proportion). At least the one guy came up with suggestions, even if I personally don't find much trouble fighting casters, currently, only sins / melee rangers and some hybrid tanks.
[/quote]
qq6 wrote: ↑Sun 21 Apr 2019 3:41 AMWasnt joking, just curious as i've never met the guy, and he still is at the top of the list... Wanted some kind of input from some1 who played hunter a lot. Cant have quit ages ago, porting was done like 2 months ago, and hes rr9.
waffel wrote: ↑Mon 22 Apr 2019 9:08 PMThe crit evading/blocking is ridiculous, and it seems in the past few weeks it got worse.
I'll line up a crit shot (after of course being unstealthed after pulling it, why does this still exist?) on a random blue con running down half-afk only to have them magically evade it like Neo.
IMO, ANY shot from stealth shouldn't be able to be blocked or evaded because the target, logically, has no idea where it is coming from. Every other shot, sure. But how do you dodge/block something you don't see?
waffel wrote: ↑Mon 22 Apr 2019 9:08 PMThe crit evading/blocking is ridiculous, and it seems in the past few weeks it got worse.
I'll line up a crit shot (after of course being unstealthed after pulling it, why does this still exist?) on a random blue con running down half-afk only to have them magically evade it like Neo.
IMO, ANY shot from stealth shouldn't be able to be blocked or evaded because the target, logically, has no idea where it is coming from. Every other shot, sure. But how do you dodge/block something you don't see?
Emeryc wrote: ↑Sun 21 Apr 2019 3:50 PMCan someone explain how debating which archer is more gimped contributes to getting archers some love from the devs?
Actually, don't explain that to me... I don't care. How about we simply refocus on the issue.
Lillebror wrote: ↑Tue 23 Apr 2019 8:59 AMTheire answer to keeping Archers in check is letting Assassins see them from a longer range.
They should be equal, or let all stealthers except mini spec MoS with increaseing detection, or give back old ra's (see hidden and true sight)
Tillbeast wrote: ↑Tue 23 Apr 2019 11:18 AMLillebror wrote: ↑Tue 23 Apr 2019 8:59 AMTheire answer to keeping Archers in check is letting Assassins see them from a longer range.
They should be equal, or let all stealthers except mini spec MoS with increaseing detection, or give back old ra's (see hidden and true sight)
There is a imbalance of stealthers on the server. Too many assassins in comparison to archers who use to have the RA's to hurt assassins. Now stealth detection is so in an assassins favour means less archers and more assassins are being played. Assassins kill casters far easier than archers so it just increases the problem of the server being flooded with assassins making some game styles (lone caster) either really difficult or outright impossible. I cant see them giving archers true sight back but MoS on assassins and archers is badly needed. MoS gives an archer the ability to hunt assassins but has to sacrifice other RA's to help see and be quicker than other stealthers.
Archers need a slight tweak to the way archery works, maybe not outright dps but more consistent dps, less miss chances and have abilities like evade and block chance be not as good as it currently is. Do this and I cant see much issues with scouts and rangers. Scouts are usually bow spec and more consistent archery is needed for them to maximise there strength whilst rangers are pretty solid as is if the archery issues were fixed. Hunters pet though needs looking at especially its speed. Make it quicker than someone sprinting but not quick enough to catch sorc/chanter speed and give it a snare not a disease. Sort the pet and the general archery rules for the hunter it will perform better than what its current.
Lillebror wrote: ↑Tue 23 Apr 2019 11:35 AMTillbeast wrote: ↑Tue 23 Apr 2019 11:18 AMLillebror wrote: ↑Tue 23 Apr 2019 8:59 AMTheire answer to keeping Archers in check is letting Assassins see them from a longer range.
They should be equal, or let all stealthers except mini spec MoS with increaseing detection, or give back old ra's (see hidden and true sight)
There is a imbalance of stealthers on the server. Too many assassins in comparison to archers who use to have the RA's to hurt assassins. Now stealth detection is so in an assassins favour means less archers and more assassins are being played. Assassins kill casters far easier than archers so it just increases the problem of the server being flooded with assassins making some game styles (lone caster) either really difficult or outright impossible. I cant see them giving archers true sight back but MoS on assassins and archers is badly needed. MoS gives an archer the ability to hunt assassins but has to sacrifice other RA's to help see and be quicker than other stealthers.
Archers need a slight tweak to the way archery works, maybe not outright dps but more consistent dps, less miss chances and have abilities like evade and block chance be not as good as it currently is. Do this and I cant see much issues with scouts and rangers. Scouts are usually bow spec and more consistent archery is needed for them to maximise there strength whilst rangers are pretty solid as is if the archery issues were fixed. Hunters pet though needs looking at especially its speed. Make it quicker than someone sprinting but not quick enough to catch sorc/chanter speed and give it a snare not a disease. Sort the pet and the general archery rules for the hunter it will perform better than what its current.
Think MoS 1-5 would be great, because high detecion comes with a step price.
So if all stealth classes would have same basic detection, and only Archers and Assassins could get MoS, that would be good.
Do Archers get interrupted still by armor procs? Should be a good point speccing 50 bow, if you willing to be gimp in melee.
snare or disease on hunter pet can be to much but a speed as you describe should be no problem imo
Sepplord wrote: ↑Tue 23 Apr 2019 3:12 PMIt's about helping stealthzergs much more than all other players though....do you really not see the difference? Giving stealthzergs a member with Mos9 completely overshadows any benefit a solo stealther could get from it.
And yes, several things are ingame simply because a small group of players could abuse it otherwise. Our whole world IRL is built upon rules that mostly exist only because a small subset of people like to abuse potential loopholes. That's exactly how implementations are considered: what is the worst that someone could do with it. What are the consequences of people using this unintentional or in other ways than the reason we want to implement it?
Free Mos9 detection would overall probably be better for all stealthers, than having it cost RA points. And free MOS9-detection would be a complete s***storm for every non-archer.
cere2 wrote: ↑Tue 23 Apr 2019 3:22 PMSepplord wrote: ↑Tue 23 Apr 2019 3:12 PMIt's about helping stealthzergs much more than all other players though....do you really not see the difference? Giving stealthzergs a member with Mos9 completely overshadows any benefit a solo stealther could get from it.
And yes, several things are ingame simply because a small group of players could abuse it otherwise. Our whole world IRL is built upon rules that mostly exist only because a small subset of people like to abuse potential loopholes. That's exactly how implementations are considered: what is the worst that someone could do with it. What are the consequences of people using this unintentional or in other ways than the reason we want to implement it?
Free Mos9 detection would overall probably be better for all stealthers, than having it cost RA points. And free MOS9-detection would be a complete s***storm for every non-archer.
Can you tell us why it would be a s***storm?
Just wondering, when was the last time you played Live?
Sepplord wrote: ↑Tue 23 Apr 2019 3:26 PMcere2 wrote: ↑Tue 23 Apr 2019 3:22 PMSepplord wrote: ↑Tue 23 Apr 2019 3:12 PMIt's about helping stealthzergs much more than all other players though....do you really not see the difference? Giving stealthzergs a member with Mos9 completely overshadows any benefit a solo stealther could get from it.
And yes, several things are ingame simply because a small group of players could abuse it otherwise. Our whole world IRL is built upon rules that mostly exist only because a small subset of people like to abuse potential loopholes. That's exactly how implementations are considered: what is the worst that someone could do with it. What are the consequences of people using this unintentional or in other ways than the reason we want to implement it?
Free Mos9 detection would overall probably be better for all stealthers, than having it cost RA points. And free MOS9-detection would be a complete s***storm for every non-archer.
Can you tell us why it would be a s***storm?
Just wondering, when was the last time you played Live?
You think everyone having free-MOS9 detection would be something that assassin players welcome?
I haven't played live since beginning of TOA. Do they have free-MOS9 in OF without MLs/CLs/whatever buttons or why would it be relevant?
Can i take it from the reply though, that you agree that free-MOS9 for everyone would be better than paying for MOS9? At least we would have small consensus, and imo it should be easier to argue why free-MOS9 detection for everyone would be a bad idea ^^
Turano wrote: ↑Wed 24 Apr 2019 12:08 PMArchers can farm the visibles even in high populated areas because of their range and want to farm their only counter as well.
Right now, thanks to no 800 range stealth detection, this server has a healthy population of solo stealthers of all realms and classes
I have seen on uthgard 1 what happens on a classic server with MoS. And I don't need that again
Turano wrote: ↑Wed 24 Apr 2019 2:44 PMHahahaha so your arguement is that assassins can make a kill in lets say emain every 15 minutes if vanish is up and he/she kills fast enough
Or in other words, you have no arguement at all.
What you guys want is the end of solo stealthers and I have no idea why that is. And honestly, I don't care as well
Thank god I'm not playing live any more.. free MoS 9 for everyone is like hell on wheels, but at least all you stealthzergers can find each other faster then I guess
Emeryc wrote: ↑Wed 24 Apr 2019 10:14 PMArchers are not asking to dominate assassins. We're asking for something to help us NOT be fodder for them.
Contrary to what many non-archers in this thread are whining about, Archers are not asking for a direct increase to DPS, nor do they need one.
I'd love to see some more suggestions to make the Archery line more attractive and useful without increasing its DPS. Such as:
-Build additional levels of MOS into the bow line at high levels, like 40, 45 and 50. This would give archers greater ability to avoid assassins without increasing DPS. Archers would be more difficult for assassins to engage, but no more difficult to fight. Additionally, it would give Archers more mobility in larger fights in order to gain position on enemies before opening fire... again, without raising DPS.
-Build Long Shot and Volley into the bow line at high spec levels, like 40 and 45 (or even 50!)
-(I can't believe I'm saying this but...) Decrease Bow DPS at specs below 35, but increase it at specs above 40. Right now, one of the major complaints about Archers (and Rangers specifically) is melee DPS coupled with ranged DPS is too much... a spec of 20 Bow is not much less effective than a spec of 40 bow, right now, but allows 601 additional spec points to dump into melee.
-Give RF 2 a boost. As it is, it does nothing that RF 1 doesn't already do. Some have suggested a slight increase in DPS, but this breaks the "no increase in DPS" rule. I would rather see either a chance to avoid interruption or an increased chance to avoid being blocked or evaded.
-In general, give archers a reason to spec into the Bow lines!
Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑Thu 25 Apr 2019 1:49 PMEmeryc wrote: ↑Wed 24 Apr 2019 10:14 PMArchers are not asking to dominate assassins. We're asking for something to help us NOT be fodder for them.
Contrary to what many non-archers in this thread are whining about, Archers are not asking for a direct increase to DPS, nor do they need one.
I'd love to see some more suggestions to make the Archery line more attractive and useful without increasing its DPS. Such as:
-Build additional levels of MOS into the bow line at high levels, like 40, 45 and 50. This would give archers greater ability to avoid assassins without increasing DPS. Archers would be more difficult for assassins to engage, but no more difficult to fight. Additionally, it would give Archers more mobility in larger fights in order to gain position on enemies before opening fire... again, without raising DPS.
-Build Long Shot and Volley into the bow line at high spec levels, like 40 and 45 (or even 50!)
-(I can't believe I'm saying this but...) Decrease Bow DPS at specs below 35, but increase it at specs above 40. Right now, one of the major complaints about Archers (and Rangers specifically) is melee DPS coupled with ranged DPS is too much... a spec of 20 Bow is not much less effective than a spec of 40 bow, right now, but allows 601 additional spec points to dump into melee.
-Give RF 2 a boost. As it is, it does nothing that RF 1 doesn't already do. Some have suggested a slight increase in DPS, but this breaks the "no increase in DPS" rule. I would rather see either a chance to avoid interruption or an increased chance to avoid being blocked or evaded.
-In general, give archers a reason to spec into the Bow lines!
+1 - These threads need more reasonable posters such as yourself.
Tamy wrote: ↑Thu 25 Apr 2019 1:52 PMAmp_Phetamine wrote: ↑Thu 25 Apr 2019 1:49 PMEmeryc wrote: ↑Wed 24 Apr 2019 10:14 PMArchers are not asking to dominate assassins. We're asking for something to help us NOT be fodder for them.
Contrary to what many non-archers in this thread are whining about, Archers are not asking for a direct increase to DPS, nor do they need one.
I'd love to see some more suggestions to make the Archery line more attractive and useful without increasing its DPS. Such as:
-Build additional levels of MOS into the bow line at high levels, like 40, 45 and 50. This would give archers greater ability to avoid assassins without increasing DPS. Archers would be more difficult for assassins to engage, but no more difficult to fight. Additionally, it would give Archers more mobility in larger fights in order to gain position on enemies before opening fire... again, without raising DPS.
-Build Long Shot and Volley into the bow line at high spec levels, like 40 and 45 (or even 50!)
-(I can't believe I'm saying this but...) Decrease Bow DPS at specs below 35, but increase it at specs above 40. Right now, one of the major complaints about Archers (and Rangers specifically) is melee DPS coupled with ranged DPS is too much... a spec of 20 Bow is not much less effective than a spec of 40 bow, right now, but allows 601 additional spec points to dump into melee.
-Give RF 2 a boost. As it is, it does nothing that RF 1 doesn't already do. Some have suggested a slight increase in DPS, but this breaks the "no increase in DPS" rule. I would rather see either a chance to avoid interruption or an increased chance to avoid being blocked or evaded.
-In general, give archers a reason to spec into the Bow lines!
+1 - These threads need more reasonable posters such as yourself.
/word, +2
Emeryc wrote: ↑Wed 24 Apr 2019 10:14 PMArchers are not asking to dominate assassins. We're asking for something to help us NOT be fodder for them.
Contrary to what many non-archers in this thread are whining about, Archers are not asking for a direct increase to DPS, nor do they need one.
I'd love to see some more suggestions to make the Archery line more attractive and useful without increasing its DPS. Such as:
-Build additional levels of MOS into the bow line at high levels, like 40, 45 and 50. This would give archers greater ability to avoid assassins without increasing DPS. Archers would be more difficult for assassins to engage, but no more difficult to fight. Additionally, it would give Archers more mobility in larger fights in order to gain position on enemies before opening fire... again, without raising DPS.
-Build Long Shot and Volley into the bow line at high spec levels, like 40 and 45 (or even 50!)
-(I can't believe I'm saying this but...) Decrease Bow DPS at specs below 35, but increase it at specs above 40. Right now, one of the major complaints about Archers (and Rangers specifically) is melee DPS coupled with ranged DPS is too much... a spec of 20 Bow is not much less effective than a spec of 40 bow, right now, but allows 601 additional spec points to dump into melee.
-Give RF 2 a boost. As it is, it does nothing that RF 1 doesn't already do. Some have suggested a slight increase in DPS, but this breaks the "no increase in DPS" rule. I would rather see either a chance to avoid interruption or an increased chance to avoid being blocked or evaded.
-In general, give archers a reason to spec into the Bow lines!
inoeth wrote: ↑Sat 27 Apr 2019 1:30 PMi dont get why ppl want mos to in the bow line... that doesnt make any sense and only punishes people who want to play melee archers. just make it a specable RA like it always was
inoeth wrote: ↑Sat 27 Apr 2019 1:30 PMi dont get why ppl want mos to in the bow line... that doesnt make any sense and only punishes people who want to play melee archers. just make it a specable RA like it always was
and i am good to go.
Emeryc wrote: ↑Sat 27 Apr 2019 4:42 PMinoeth wrote: ↑Sat 27 Apr 2019 1:30 PMi dont get why ppl want mos to in the bow line... that doesnt make any sense and only punishes people who want to play melee archers. just make it a specable RA like it always was
I don't have a problem with making it a speccable RA. My point in making the suggestion is, as my post clearly states, to give the Bow line a boost to utility without giving a direct increase to DPS. /edit: If MOS were added as an RA, the Bow line would still need some love.
Putting it in the Bow line in no way is a punishment to anyone... that's just silly. What it gives Archers is the choice to spec either for the ability to stand and fight with assassins and others or to have a chance to avoid assassins... but not both.
AngelRose wrote: ↑Sat 27 Apr 2019 11:46 PMAll I want is the chance to see a sin before I am at 50% health..just a chance to avoid a pa....and a dog that is not worthless.
Not really asking alot, imho.
Khogor wrote: ↑Sat 27 Apr 2019 8:35 PMI still think it will be quit difficult to "balance" Archer against Asassin , because all other fights will be to much affected.
I must say I dont have to problem of getting Pa´d to often in stealth and giving Archers a higher mos then asassins will lead to a Point where the Asassin starts the fight with 60% health becaus he gets a critshot first.
...
MOs as Ra´...perhabs a slight dam buff for bow dam with higher specc and as gimmik speed buff in the bow line.
Remedy
Khogor wrote: ↑Sat 27 Apr 2019 8:35 PMI still think it will be quit difficult to "balance" Archer against Asassin , because all other fights will be to much affected.
I must say I dont have to problem of getting Pa´d to often in stealth and giving Archers a higher mos then asassins will lead to a Point where the Asassin starts the fight with 60% health becaus he gets a critshot first.
My main Problem is the kind of boring an one sided way fights go (as Scout !) ....Slam . no purge = hoping the Asassin is down ore you can finigh his last 5% HP before youre 100% are gone.
Purge Up =GG for the Asassin.
First Hit ...desease and 118 kon debuff .....even if I try to bait purge with numb ore slam right away.....im still in melee range if the asassin isnt brain afk.
Besides that ...inst NS dd hits for 100 dam ?
MOs as Ra´...perhabs a slight dam buff for bow dam with higher specc and as gimmik speed buff in the bow line.
Remedy
Emeryc wrote: ↑Mon 29 Apr 2019 6:53 PMKhogor wrote: ↑Sat 27 Apr 2019 8:35 PMI still think it will be quit difficult to "balance" Archer against Asassin , because all other fights will be to much affected.
I must say I dont have to problem of getting Pa´d to often in stealth and giving Archers a higher mos then asassins will lead to a Point where the Asassin starts the fight with 60% health becaus he gets a critshot first.
...
MOs as Ra´...perhabs a slight dam buff for bow dam with higher specc and as gimmik speed buff in the bow line.
Remedy
All MOS does on Phoenix is give increased movement speed in stealth, per http://playphoenix.wiki/stealth-changes/
Additionally, the idea that any Archer can land a critshot on any stealthed Assassin of equal level is absolute nonsense.
Sepplord wrote: ↑Tue 30 Apr 2019 8:28 AMEmeryc wrote: ↑Mon 29 Apr 2019 6:53 PMKhogor wrote: ↑Sat 27 Apr 2019 8:35 PMI still think it will be quit difficult to "balance" Archer against Asassin , because all other fights will be to much affected.
I must say I dont have to problem of getting Pa´d to often in stealth and giving Archers a higher mos then asassins will lead to a Point where the Asassin starts the fight with 60% health becaus he gets a critshot first.
...
MOs as Ra´...perhabs a slight dam buff for bow dam with higher specc and as gimmik speed buff in the bow line.
Remedy
All MOS does on Phoenix is give increased movement speed in stealth, per http://playphoenix.wiki/stealth-changes/
Additionally, the idea that any Archer can land a critshot on any stealthed Assassin of equal level is absolute nonsense.
you can pre-load the critshot and instantly fire it after the initial delay is up on targets you have just picked/spotted. It's already possible if you know an assassin is coming for you. Not saying it'S a huge problem, but it'S not like an archer has to see an assassin, then load his crit, wait 4seconds and then fire on the assassin while the sin just waits without moving.
Lillebror wrote: ↑Tue 30 Apr 2019 8:51 AMAssassins really need to play the other stealth classes before they start talking about how detection is here.
Its so unbalanced that its not even funny and it make the solo scene very PA vanish heavy.
tbh i think they should revert teh detection range so Archers was the predator and Assassins the meat for a few weeks.
problem is that we dont have enough Archers to punish them.
Tamy wrote: ↑Tue 30 Apr 2019 2:23 PMIt's totally possible to solo as an archer. Even in the high traffic zones. Most of the time I die because I get too greedy. And it's also fun to get revenge on some fg/small man that zerged you many times when you finally are able to fu** up there fight by taking down one of there squishy targets...or to just get some rp's out of a zerg/milegate/keep fight. That's far more risky with a sin (if vanish is down of course).
Nonetheless I'm basically fu**** if a half-decent sin gets me with Pa/Bs (which is very likely since every chimp is able to set up a Pa/Bs with this stealth advantage) and my tools (Purge/Ip) are down. On the other hand when I catch them off-stealth or I am able to pre-load a crit it gets really interesting.
I'm thinking about starting a ranger to get a direct comparison to the scout but this stupid 12h timer seems so obstructive.
Sepplord wrote: ↑Tue 30 Apr 2019 8:28 AMEmeryc wrote: ↑Mon 29 Apr 2019 6:53 PMKhogor wrote: ↑Sat 27 Apr 2019 8:35 PMI still think it will be quit difficult to "balance" Archer against Asassin , because all other fights will be to much affected.
I must say I dont have to problem of getting Pa´d to often in stealth and giving Archers a higher mos then asassins will lead to a Point where the Asassin starts the fight with 60% health becaus he gets a critshot first.
...
MOs as Ra´...perhabs a slight dam buff for bow dam with higher specc and as gimmik speed buff in the bow line.
Remedy
All MOS does on Phoenix is give increased movement speed in stealth, per http://playphoenix.wiki/stealth-changes/
Additionally, the idea that any Archer can land a critshot on any stealthed Assassin of equal level is absolute nonsense.
you can pre-load the critshot and instantly fire it after the initial delay is up on targets you have just picked/spotted. It's already possible if you know an assassin is coming for you. Not saying it'S a huge problem, but it'S not like an archer has to see an assassin, then load his crit, wait 4seconds and then fire on the assassin while the sin just waits without moving.
Turano wrote: ↑Tue 30 Apr 2019 5:02 PMOh it definitely works. I got shot out of stealth with a crit by a scout the moment I saw him.
I'm not hunting/fighting stealthed archers often so I don't know how frequent or reliable it is, but it is definitely possible
Lillebror wrote: ↑Wed 1 May 2019 9:27 AMI start to think that ppl makeing and playing archers to high rr are into self hurting
Tanakeo wrote: ↑Wed 1 May 2019 1:42 PMthink most archers are banking on some attention from devs eventually, they got their hands full atm though so probably ways off... but would be nice with some kind of acknowledgement from the Phoenix Team. ..
for now tho, find a hill, hope for inc, shoot ppl from cliprange, only thing they have going for them is elevation bonus
dioz wrote: ↑Mon 22 Apr 2019 2:45 PMI enjoy the 44 thrust 42 shield 35 bow at rr8 .
Being able to snare your oponents, adds much more utility at the class.
It also gives me a chance to actually try to do something after a low rr sin purge my slam and win the fight (not always)
And i say a low rr sin cause against high rr sins i dont have a chance, whatever i do. (soon ill post a video when i lost against Phixion and left him with 5% - mate stop Rofl when u kill a scout 2 ranks lower than u cause imho u should be crying with your lack of skill - its not a success when a scout 2 ranks lower than u leave u like this after a fight) . i enjoyed the fight anyway !
Now regarding bow dmg . I think bow dmg is ok considering i trained it only to 35. But plz! a green con elf ( i relized it was green after i killed him ofc) evaded my Crit shot AND my regular shot in a row! Ofc getting rupted after a reactive dmg proc its unfair also.
Scouts are fine in this server . being able to critshot someone even if he moves , made the class able to solo. So avoid routes known that are used from assassins , try to pull your fights away from them ( we have the best range in game ! combined it with the super RA called longshot and u gonna be ok) , pick the right spots/hills to set up your ambush , use every buff charge/pot the game offers and u gonna be fine!
@Devs : just give us the 250 detection range to spot the sins or even it to 125 for both classes ( this will give us the chance to avoid them NOT to kill them)
fix the reactive rupts
Dioz - rr8L5 Scout
Necras - rr3 Necro (farmtoon)
cere2 wrote: ↑Mon 29 Apr 2019 8:23 PMKhogor wrote: ↑Sat 27 Apr 2019 8:35 PMI still think it will be quit difficult to "balance" Archer against Asassin , because all other fights will be to much affected.
I must say I dont have to problem of getting Pa´d to often in stealth and giving Archers a higher mos then asassins will lead to a Point where the Asassin starts the fight with 60% health becaus he gets a critshot first.
My main Problem is the kind of boring an one sided way fights go (as Scout !) ....Slam . no purge = hoping the Asassin is down ore you can finigh his last 5% HP before youre 100% are gone.
Purge Up =GG for the Asassin.
First Hit ...desease and 118 kon debuff .....even if I try to bait purge with numb ore slam right away.....im still in melee range if the asassin isnt brain afk.
Besides that ...inst NS dd hits for 100 dam ?
MOs as Ra´...perhabs a slight dam buff for bow dam with higher specc and as gimmik speed buff in the bow line.
Remedy
If an archer spends 27 points to spec in MOS, and an assassin chooses not to spend anything on MOS, and trains vanish/MOP/Aug Str etc etc instead....don't you think the archer should get at least a shot off first? Isn't that kind of how MOS was designed?
Back when MOS was a thing most sin's wouldn't train it past 5 because they already had MOS 3 with see hidden giving them approx MOS 8 with much less RA invested than archers.
Not sure why this became such an issue on phoenix. Apparently someone decided that archers should be cannon fodder for sin's and here we are.
AngelRose wrote: ↑Fri 3 May 2019 10:41 PMPeople are still trying to play archer on this server? I quit weeks ago. Came to play archer. Leveled hunter, templated hunter, played hunter in OF for about 6 weeks. Made posts hoping for help for hunters. Total silence from devs regarding Hunter.
quit playing this server. Keep checking in to see of hunter has been fixed.
Maybe next time. I haven't given up hope
AngelRose wrote: ↑Fri 3 May 2019 10:41 PMPeople are still trying to play archer on this server? I quit weeks ago. Came to play archer. Leveled hunter, templated hunter, played hunter in OF for about 6 weeks. Made posts hoping for help for hunters. Total silence from devs regarding Hunter.
quit playing this server. Keep checking in to see of hunter has been fixed.
Maybe next time. I haven't given up hope
Khogor wrote: ↑Sun 5 May 2019 10:41 AMGet a Hit by an Asassin ..... Deff gone...off gone....Hits Gone 4xx Tp......
Try to lang Slam .......miss 4 Times.....land Slam ........Asassin evades ! Critshot.......
An then get killed by every damn noob Asassin....
stinsfire wrote: ↑Mon 6 May 2019 3:29 PMAngelRose wrote: ↑Fri 3 May 2019 10:41 PMPeople are still trying to play archer on this server? I quit weeks ago. Came to play archer. Leveled hunter, templated hunter, played hunter in OF for about 6 weeks. Made posts hoping for help for hunters. Total silence from devs regarding Hunter.
quit playing this server. Keep checking in to see of hunter has been fixed.
Maybe next time. I haven't given up hope
I have lost any faith or trust in the devs. They seem to have no clear "vision" of what they want achieve and I don't see any priorities or a plan they follow. They started buffing certain classes who were underperforming like thane, friar and even added custom spells in earthwiz line and then let the other underpowered char rot away in a corner. They have responded to archer threads 3 months ago, said they will do something, stopped posting in archer threads, don't react to any new archery threads and ignore you when you directly ask them about archers: It is almost as if they have an agenda pushed upon them to not adress anything archer related.
Hunter is in such a shitty state.. I just hit level 50 on my hunter today and I don't even feel like playing or temping him knowing how weak he will be.
Plus they stealthnerfed longshot without mentioning it in any patchnotes. You used to be able to combine critshot + longshot for self bt penetrating critshot every 5 minutes. They changed it that longshot always does normal shot damage, no matter what. I cannot prove it and it was over 10 Years ago but I am pretty sure that this was always possible in 1.65 times. Same for the hunter pet. The insta pet did not destealth you when it would damage an enemy, That was introduced with the buffed pets that had increasesd runspeed, styles and procs. I made a bug report and they closed it without a comment.Khogor wrote: ↑Sun 5 May 2019 10:41 AMGet a Hit by an Asassin ..... Deff gone...off gone....Hits Gone 4xx Tp......
Try to lang Slam .......miss 4 Times.....land Slam ........Asassin evades ! Critshot.......
An then get killed by every damn noob Asassin....
Crit Styles: PA Cannot be blocked ,cannot be evaded, cannot be missed
Archery: Critshot randomly unstealthes you, can be blocked, can be evaded, BT catches it, nearsight turns you into a scuffed assassin, can be interrupted by reactive procs.
Whenever in DAoCs timeline was it possible to evade while being stunned or trigger reactive procs on 2000 range??
Top that with 250 vs 125 stealth detection range for no rational reason. I dont see the logic behind it. Whenever an Assassin and an Archer run into each other stealthed this is a huge advantage for Assassins. The silly stealth detection system we have on phoenix allows assassins to force those situations and make it near impossible for the already weaker archer to avoid such situation or turn around in time to avoid PA. 50% of the time I dont even see them before I eat the PA. The other times I have like 1ms time to reacht before PA hits.
AngelRose wrote: ↑Mon 6 May 2019 11:26 PMI think it is time to call it, boys.
Dev's do not want archers in this shard. Archer's are dead. They might as well take them out of the game.
Just wish they had been more honest about it from the beginning. I wouldn't have wasted my time.
dbeattie71 wrote: ↑Tue 7 May 2019 12:44 AMAngelRose wrote: ↑Mon 6 May 2019 11:26 PMI think it is time to call it, boys.
Dev's do not want archers in this shard. Archer's are dead. They might as well take them out of the game.
Just wish they had been more honest about it from the beginning. I wouldn't have wasted my time.
Don’t take my Ranger, still super fun to play.
cere2 wrote: ↑Tue 7 May 2019 3:49 AMdbeattie71 wrote: ↑Tue 7 May 2019 12:44 AMAngelRose wrote: ↑Mon 6 May 2019 11:26 PMI think it is time to call it, boys.
Dev's do not want archers in this shard. Archer's are dead. They might as well take them out of the game.
Just wish they had been more honest about it from the beginning. I wouldn't have wasted my time.
Don’t take my Ranger, still super fun to play.
9 kill last week with your Ranger. Must not be that fun....
dbeattie71 wrote: ↑Tue 7 May 2019 4:52 AM
9? It says 67 kills. I've been playing my chanter but yeah, I'm not one of the mopey dopey cry b/c my bow down't work. My ranger is a monster. Funny how many Shar Rangers I see now lol.
dbeattie71 wrote: ↑Tue 7 May 2019 4:52 AM
9? It says 67 kills. I've been playing my chanter but yeah, I'm not one of the mopey dopey cry b/c my bow down't work. My ranger is a monster. Funny how many Shar Rangers I see now lol.
cere2 wrote: ↑Tue 7 May 2019 1:47 PMdbeattie71 wrote: ↑Tue 7 May 2019 4:52 AM
9? It says 67 kills. I've been playing my chanter but yeah, I'm not one of the mopey dopey cry b/c my bow down't work. My ranger is a monster. Funny how many Shar Rangers I see now lol.
So in other words you went with a melee spec Shar ranger. Probably have 12 bow. I mean if it's so easy and your ranger is "a beast" post up some vids. I want to see these epic skills. Or, are you saying that with purge and IP and the 2 instant heals up you can beat down an assassin?
Show me how good you are after that. Some of us are not interested in being a "beast" once every 15 mins.
Your saying I am a mopey dopey cry b/c bow don't work?
Obviously you haven't been reading anything on these boards about archers. And never played one in the last 10 years on live.
We weren't so dependent on IP to save our ass every battle.
dbeattie71 wrote: ↑Tue 7 May 2019 2:05 PMcere2 wrote: ↑Tue 7 May 2019 1:47 PMdbeattie71 wrote: ↑Tue 7 May 2019 4:52 AM9? It says 67 kills. I've been playing my chanter but yeah, I'm not one of the mopey dopey cry b/c my bow down't work. My ranger is a monster. Funny how many Shar Rangers I see now lol.
So in other words you went with a melee spec Shar ranger. Probably have 12 bow. I mean if it's so easy and your ranger is "a beast" post up some vids. I want to see these epic skills. Or, are you saying that with purge and IP and the 2 instant heals up you can beat down an assassin?
Show me how good you are after that. Some of us are not interested in being a "beast" once every 15 mins.
Your saying I am a mopey dopey cry b/c bow don't work?
Obviously you haven't been reading anything on these boards about archers. And never played one in the last 10 years on live.
We weren't so dependent on IP to save our ass every battle.
I do have videos but haven't put them up yet, having said that, I don't care if people think I'm good or not. And I never wait for timers, I always go back out.
cere2 wrote: ↑Tue 7 May 2019 2:23 PMdbeattie71 wrote: ↑Tue 7 May 2019 2:05 PMcere2 wrote: ↑Tue 7 May 2019 1:47 PMSo in other words you went with a melee spec Shar ranger. Probably have 12 bow. I mean if it's so easy and your ranger is "a beast" post up some vids. I want to see these epic skills. Or, are you saying that with purge and IP and the 2 instant heals up you can beat down an assassin?
Show me how good you are after that. Some of us are not interested in being a "beast" once every 15 mins.
Your saying I am a mopey dopey cry b/c bow don't work?
Obviously you haven't been reading anything on these boards about archers. And never played one in the last 10 years on live.
We weren't so dependent on IP to save our ass every battle.
I do have videos but haven't put them up yet, having said that, I don't care if people think I'm good or not. And I never wait for timers, I always go back out.
I don't care if your good or not either. But just coming onto a discussion and saying everything is fine because 1 spec with 1 class can kill assassin's just bothers me.
I agree with melee ranger being able to kill some assassin's. I have one and had way more success than with my luri spec bow.
But does that make everything ok?
New buffs will help ranger/hunter, but what about scout? I think scout just took a bit of a hit again. Melee rangers just got even better.
This is about archers not just rangers, so when I make suggestions it's trying to keep all the archer classes in mind.
I played ranger/scout/hunter for 12 years on Live, I'm no pro either.
But until the stealth detection is fixed, melee rangers will still be the only ones really able to solo consistently vs assassin's.
dbeattie71 wrote: ↑Tue 7 May 2019 2:24 PMcere2 wrote: ↑Tue 7 May 2019 2:23 PMdbeattie71 wrote: ↑Tue 7 May 2019 2:05 PMI do have videos but haven't put them up yet, having said that, I don't care if people think I'm good or not. And I never wait for timers, I always go back out.
I don't care if your good or not either. But just coming onto a discussion and saying everything is fine because 1 spec with 1 class can kill assassin's just bothers me.
I agree with melee ranger being able to kill some assassin's. I have one and had way more success than with my luri spec bow.
But does that make everything ok?
New buffs will help ranger/hunter, but what about scout? I think scout just took a bit of a hit again. Melee rangers just got even better.
This is about archers not just rangers, so when I make suggestions it's trying to keep all the archer classes in mind.
I played ranger/scout/hunter for 12 years on Live, I'm no pro either.
But until the stealth detection is fixed, melee rangers will still be the only ones really able to solo consistently vs assassin's.
I didn't say everything is fine, I said my Ranger is still fun. In fact in other thread, I said that if the strongest spec for a Ranger is 13 bow, there's probably an issue.
qq6 wrote: ↑Tue 7 May 2019 3:59 PMBy the time they give anything meaningful to rangers/hunters/scouts, the server is going to slow down even more. Compared to what it was a month/2 ago eu-morning/daytime it might aswell be dead, i still log on every now and then to make a run or two, and the action has slowed down considerably.
qq6 wrote: ↑Tue 7 May 2019 3:59 PMBy the time they give anything meaningful to rangers/hunters/scouts, the server is going to slow down even more. Compared to what it was a month/2 ago eu-morning/daytime it might aswell be dead, i still log on every now and then to make a run or two, and the action has slowed down considerably.
qq6 wrote: ↑Fri 10 May 2019 4:25 PMare the buff changes live?
charge cloak went to 50 d/q ... yellow self buff d/q is 78 // still x1.25 delve value.
will log in the morning and play a bit, just to see the change. Before / after for me 42 pf // best buffs.
qq6 wrote: ↑Fri 10 May 2019 4:25 PMare the buff changes live?
charge cloak went to 50 d/q ... yellow self buff d/q is 78 // still x1.25 delve value.
will log in the morning and play a bit, just to see the change. Before / after for me 42 pf // best buffs.
qq6 wrote: ↑Fri 10 May 2019 4:25 PMare the buff changes live?
charge cloak went to 50 d/q ... yellow self buff d/q is 78 // still x1.25 delve value.
will log in the morning and play a bit, just to see the change. Before / after for me 42 pf // best buffs.
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑Sat 11 May 2019 6:32 AMqq6 wrote: ↑Fri 10 May 2019 4:25 PMare the buff changes live?
charge cloak went to 50 d/q ... yellow self buff d/q is 78 // still x1.25 delve value.
will log in the morning and play a bit, just to see the change. Before / after for me 42 pf // best buffs.
Slight boost to bow (yet a nerf to damage with AF buff for everyone on 100%), and a big nerf to melee. That strength score took a huge hit.
mhenfhis wrote: ↑Sat 11 May 2019 6:45 AMCadebrennus wrote: ↑Sat 11 May 2019 6:32 AMqq6 wrote: ↑Fri 10 May 2019 4:25 PMare the buff changes live?
charge cloak went to 50 d/q ... yellow self buff d/q is 78 // still x1.25 delve value.
will log in the morning and play a bit, just to see the change. Before / after for me 42 pf // best buffs.
Slight boost to bow (yet a nerf to damage with AF buff for everyone on 100%), and a big nerf to melee. That strength score took a huge hit.
you call always run pierce hehe, the good point for rangers is that they are not loosing that 25 quick with high PF.
qq6 wrote: ↑Sat 11 May 2019 1:15 PMScouts are very strong now. If i had to choose an archer, i'd roll a scout now. Messing with buffs is always going to be a tough one towards some classes, i very much doubt any kind of balance will be reached here in the long run, and these drastic changes only make it worse for those that sank the time in.
Scout > hunter > ranger from my duels so far.
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑Sat 11 May 2019 11:34 AMmhenfhis wrote: ↑Sat 11 May 2019 6:45 AMCadebrennus wrote: ↑Sat 11 May 2019 6:32 AMSlight boost to bow (yet a nerf to damage with AF buff for everyone on 100%), and a big nerf to melee. That strength score took a huge hit.
you call always run pierce hehe, the good point for rangers is that they are not loosing that 25 quick with high PF.
Pierce on Hib sucks just as bad as Thrust does on Alb style-wise. Blades is far better for a Hib stealther, especially considering the anytime 2part ASR chain.
Tillbeast wrote: ↑Sat 11 May 2019 12:25 PMAm I missing something here with regards scouts complaining. For a hunter or ranger to get full benefit of these new changes they have to spec really high into either PF or BC. A rough guess would be either spec 40+ in pf or bc or don't bother speccing at all in those lines. This means they have to ignore other spec lines, lower archery, lower cd, lower melee skills etc. Admittedly a melee focused hunter/ranger who ignores bow line is obviously better off than a melee focused scout but not by a huge amount. A scout who has access to combi potions is basically being given free spec points to spend into an additional line. A hunter or ranger does not get any advantage of using a combi potion over a scout using a combi potion unless they spec high into either bc or pf. Surely this is to the scouts advantage. They have to sacrifice nothing to get access to pretty goods buffs and have there class advantages at full power like slam, better dps and ranged bows etc. Whereas a hunter or ranger to get better buffs than a scout has to spec high in pf or bc and therefore the extra dps they get from high pf and bc is countered by the loss of dps from lower archery and melee lines.
I guess I am missing something but I don't know what. Unless you go full melee as a hunter or ranger the scout looks the better bow or hybrid option of the 3.
Bumbles wrote: ↑Sat 11 May 2019 1:42 PMqq6 wrote: ↑Sat 11 May 2019 1:15 PMScouts are very strong now. If i had to choose an archer, i'd roll a scout now. Messing with buffs is always going to be a tough one towards some classes, i very much doubt any kind of balance will be reached here in the long run, and these drastic changes only make it worse for those that sank the time in.
Scout > hunter > ranger from my duels so far.
Hahaha ha. Come to Alb, roll a Scout. Then let’s have that conversation again. As Phixion said if purge is up any Scout is dead 99% of the time. Scouts have always been seen as free RPs for any stealther. I love when Hunters/Rangers try to make them out to be amazing....you find me a NS/SB who fears a Scout and we can have a conversation.
Tillbeast wrote: ↑Sat 11 May 2019 10:15 PMQuestion for scouts....do most scouts use the cookie spec of 50 bow 42sh 35st rest melee or do they stop at 35bow like a lot of hunters and rangers do due to how ineffective speccing over 35 is for bow. If they spec 35 bow does the extra weaponskill you get from speccing in melee help with the shield landing a slam or is that calculated just from shield spec?
waffel wrote: ↑Thu 11 Apr 2019 4:31 PMAlso, any buffs to Beastcraft/PF need to come with something for Scouts. I'm not sure what or how, but right now I feel scouts have the least amount of toys and are extremely pigeonholed in their spec options. Having never played one, looking at the char plan for 30 seconds is depressing. Let me guess: 35 stealth, 35 bow, 42 shield, rest in Thrust or Blades? Yikes.
Bumbles wrote: ↑Wed 15 May 2019 11:17 PMI've been playing a Solo Scout as a last ditch effort to try and have fun here and it can be enjoyable at times. But for the most part you are just stealther food. The Snare poison defeats any chance to kiting a sin, the DoTs on most SB/NS will kill you. Everyone has purge 5 it seems. Ever if people are dumb and blow purge on numb you can't do enough damage while they are in stun to kill them AND you can't get far enough away to even get off 3 shots. Rough life indeed. Even casters are rough, no idea why arrows don't penetrate bubbles here like on Live. Weird! I do like the new 24 hour played rule for new 50's. It's allowed me to try every conceivable spec I can think of and mess around which I love to do with weird specs.
Leandrys wrote: ↑Wed 15 May 2019 11:24 PMBumbles wrote: ↑Wed 15 May 2019 11:17 PMI've been playing a Solo Scout as a last ditch effort to try and have fun here and it can be enjoyable at times. But for the most part you are just stealther food. The Snare poison defeats any chance to kiting a sin, the DoTs on most SB/NS will kill you. Everyone has purge 5 it seems. Ever if people are dumb and blow purge on numb you can't do enough damage while they are in stun to kill them AND you can't get far enough away to even get off 3 shots. Rough life indeed. Even casters are rough, no idea why arrows don't penetrate bubbles here like on Live. Weird! I do like the new 24 hour played rule for new 50's. It's allowed me to try every conceivable spec I can think of and mess around which I love to do with weird specs.
I'm not kidding, i totally forgot there was scouts in game, didn't see any for days and days of RvR right now.
A few hunters, yes, can't remember at all when did i see a scout for the last time.
Belkiolle wrote: ↑Wed 15 May 2019 10:49 PMwaffel wrote: ↑Thu 11 Apr 2019 4:31 PMAlso, any buffs to Beastcraft/PF need to come with something for Scouts. I'm not sure what or how, but right now I feel scouts have the least amount of toys and are extremely pigeonholed in their spec options. Having never played one, looking at the char plan for 30 seconds is depressing. Let me guess: 35 stealth, 35 bow, 42 shield, rest in Thrust or Blades? Yikes.
Pretty much. It's the only class in game I can think of that you look at the character planner and there isn't any playing with it at all to think about alternate specs.
Zaidon wrote: ↑Sat 18 May 2019 11:12 AMWhy are hunters the only ones without access to a 5.5 speed bow? Seem very unfair...
Zaidon wrote: ↑Sat 18 May 2019 11:54 AM
Yes but this is not live where you are full buffed by buffbot and the pet could be also buffed.
The hunter's pet here is the most weak pet in the game, has not even instant buff and definitely does not compensate for the use of shield or dual wield compare with scout and rangers. So same bow speed is needed for balance.
AngelRose wrote: ↑Sat 18 May 2019 4:53 PMThe pet is basically useless. At best, it is a minor damage add that does not compare to dw...at all.
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑Sat 18 May 2019 11:23 AMMy recommendation would be to give equal speed bows or increase the dog's run speed, but not both.
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑Sat 18 May 2019 7:40 PMAngelRose wrote: ↑Sat 18 May 2019 4:53 PMThe pet is basically useless. At best, it is a minor damage add that does not compare to dw...at all.
As much damage as an unstyled offhand swing, which is pretty significant. However I have not timed the frequency of attacks.
wheres a hunter pet no. Plus dont get the dual wield penetrating bonus. If not rly the same.
mhenfhis wrote: ↑Sat 18 May 2019 8:54 PMCadebrennus wrote: ↑Sat 18 May 2019 7:40 PMAngelRose wrote: ↑Sat 18 May 2019 4:53 PMThe pet is basically useless. At best, it is a minor damage add that does not compare to dw...at all.
As much damage as an unstyled offhand swing, which is pretty significant. However I have not timed the frequency of attacks.
but with offhand you can nice procs
AngelRose wrote: ↑Sat 18 May 2019 11:05 PMmhenfhis wrote: ↑Sat 18 May 2019 8:54 PMCadebrennus wrote: ↑Sat 18 May 2019 7:40 PMAs much damage as an unstyled offhand swing, which is pretty significant. However I have not timed the frequency of attacks.
but with offhand you can nice procs
He tested the damage against a training dummy...and has been telling everyone since that the hunter and ranger is equal.
Khogor wrote: ↑Sun 19 May 2019 7:06 PMTryed in ad "Duell" against Infi , the base def ..gave him more and i mean far more evade than my 50+15 and moblock 7 made me block his attacks.
If you are not planing on just adding ore having a stealth grp ...dont go archer ..just dont...
mhenfhis wrote: ↑Sat 18 May 2019 8:54 PMCadebrennus wrote: ↑Sat 18 May 2019 7:40 PMAngelRose wrote: ↑Sat 18 May 2019 4:53 PMThe pet is basically useless. At best, it is a minor damage add that does not compare to dw...at all.
As much damage as an unstyled offhand swing, which is pretty significant. However I have not timed the frequency of attacks.
but with offhand you can nice procs
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑Sun 19 May 2019 10:33 PMmhenfhis wrote: ↑Sat 18 May 2019 8:54 PMCadebrennus wrote: ↑Sat 18 May 2019 7:40 PMAs much damage as an unstyled offhand swing, which is pretty significant. However I have not timed the frequency of attacks.
but with offhand you can nice procs
True you get more weapon procs, but you also get more armour procs. You've got to see both sides of the coin here. DW penetration was nerfed hard on this server.
Sepplord wrote: ↑Mon 20 May 2019 8:40 AMCadebrennus wrote: ↑Sun 19 May 2019 10:33 PMmhenfhis wrote: ↑Sat 18 May 2019 8:54 PMbut with offhand you can nice procs
True you get more weapon procs, but you also get more armour procs. You've got to see both sides of the coin here. DW penetration was nerfed hard on this server.
pet triggers armorprocs just as the offhand does, offhand proccs weaponproccs, pet doesn't
that was the argument being made by mhenfis
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑Sun 19 May 2019 10:33 PMTrue you get more weapon procs, but you also get more armour procs. You've got to see both sides of the coin here. DW penetration was nerfed hard on this server.
) And vs Nightstalker and other hunters i have a 45%+ block chance to em and like 50 or so to the pet.. thts not equal .
Clockwork
scouts got nothing and hopefully then won't get anything.keen wrote: ↑Thu 23 May 2019 8:21 AMSo now that hunters got buffed and rangers got buffed with better buffs, what about scout class?
And then I think we should buff assassin's again so they match those buffs and then we buff hunters again until the whole server is playing stealthers...
Don't know if anyone realised but the stealthers population is already at 20-25% in rvr.
Lev wrote: ↑Thu 23 May 2019 11:31 AMscouts got nothing and hopefully then won't get anything.keen wrote: ↑Thu 23 May 2019 8:21 AMSo now that hunters got buffed and rangers got buffed with better buffs, what about scout class?
And then I think we should buff assassin's again so they match those buffs and then we buff hunters again until the whole server is playing stealthers...
Don't know if anyone realised but the stealthers population is already at 20-25% in rvr.
in contrary, i think, rangers should have 5.3 bows, hunters 5.0 and only scouts 5.5. so that scouts have longest range and highest critshots. that and the cc/defense from shield should be their point over the other archers. this will never happen, ranger will keep their 5.5 bows and thus stay at top (with quite some margin).
but: scouts have good synergy with mins and inf. albion just makes by far the best stealth groups and lots of people would be heavily annoyed if one of those 3 classes would be buffed even more. in a way those groups have just been buffed with the latest patch, as it's has been made easier to find other assassins for those groups.
Bumbles wrote: ↑Thu 23 May 2019 12:44 PMLev wrote: ↑Thu 23 May 2019 11:31 AMscouts got nothing and hopefully then won't get anything.keen wrote: ↑Thu 23 May 2019 8:21 AMSo now that hunters got buffed and rangers got buffed with better buffs, what about scout class?
And then I think we should buff assassin's again so they match those buffs and then we buff hunters again until the whole server is playing stealthers...
Don't know if anyone realised but the stealthers population is already at 20-25% in rvr.
in contrary, i think, rangers should have 5.3 bows, hunters 5.0 and only scouts 5.5. so that scouts have longest range and highest critshots. that and the cc/defense from shield should be their point over the other archers. this will never happen, ranger will keep their 5.5 bows and thus stay at top (with quite some margin).
but: scouts have good synergy with mins and inf. albion just makes by far the best stealth groups and lots of people would be heavily annoyed if one of those 3 classes would be buffed even more. in a way those groups have just been buffed with the latest patch, as it's has been made easier to find other assassins for those groups.
I love people like you who have obviously never played a Scout making comments on their shield and it’s defense capabilities. Ask any NS/SB/Ranger how that shield effects them when they rip a Scout apart in Melee. Oh and Stealth groups are for assholes with Leprosy.
Bumbles wrote: ↑Thu 23 May 2019 12:44 PMI love people like you who have obviously never played a Scout making comments on their shield and it’s defense capabilities. Ask any NS/SB/Ranger how that shield effects them when they rip a Scout apart in Melee. Oh and Stealth groups are for assholes with Leprosy.
Bumbles wrote: ↑Thu 23 May 2019 12:44 PMLev wrote: ↑Thu 23 May 2019 11:31 AMscouts got nothing and hopefully then won't get anything.keen wrote: ↑Thu 23 May 2019 8:21 AMSo now that hunters got buffed and rangers got buffed with better buffs, what about scout class?
And then I think we should buff assassin's again so they match those buffs and then we buff hunters again until the whole server is playing stealthers...
Don't know if anyone realised but the stealthers population is already at 20-25% in rvr.
in contrary, i think, rangers should have 5.3 bows, hunters 5.0 and only scouts 5.5. so that scouts have longest range and highest critshots. that and the cc/defense from shield should be their point over the other archers. this will never happen, ranger will keep their 5.5 bows and thus stay at top (with quite some margin).
but: scouts have good synergy with mins and inf. albion just makes by far the best stealth groups and lots of people would be heavily annoyed if one of those 3 classes would be buffed even more. in a way those groups have just been buffed with the latest patch, as it's has been made easier to find other assassins for those groups.
I love people like you who have obviously never played a Scout making comments on their shield and it’s defense capabilities. Ask any NS/SB/Ranger how that shield effects them when they rip a Scout apart in Melee. Oh and Stealth groups are for assholes with Leprosy.
chois wrote: ↑Thu 23 May 2019 4:48 PMand don t forget just 100 unit range difference between ranger and scout , bow 5.5 on alb , 5.4 on hib, but most imposrtant we re loosing the d/q 75 and don t have acces to MOA so now it s a gap between dex on ranger/hunter and the scout
Ardri wrote: ↑Thu 23 May 2019 2:58 PMBumbles wrote: ↑Thu 23 May 2019 12:44 PMLev wrote: ↑Thu 23 May 2019 11:31 AMscouts got nothing and hopefully then won't get anything.
in contrary, i think, rangers should have 5.3 bows, hunters 5.0 and only scouts 5.5. so that scouts have longest range and highest critshots. that and the cc/defense from shield should be their point over the other archers. this will never happen, ranger will keep their 5.5 bows and thus stay at top (with quite some margin).
but: scouts have good synergy with mins and inf. albion just makes by far the best stealth groups and lots of people would be heavily annoyed if one of those 3 classes would be buffed even more. in a way those groups have just been buffed with the latest patch, as it's has been made easier to find other assassins for those groups.
I love people like you who have obviously never played a Scout making comments on their shield and it’s defense capabilities. Ask any NS/SB/Ranger how that shield effects them when they rip a Scout apart in Melee. Oh and Stealth groups are for assholes with Leprosy.
Then you're playing scout wrong or playing against garbage scouts. 50 shield + ip3 and GL "ripping" a scout. Also, 2s numb stun then 12s later slam. Btw i heard minstrels are a good class to group with on alb with absorb song and AM. I hear some people even roll alb stealthers just for the minst.
Horus wrote: ↑Thu 23 May 2019 1:44 PMBumbles wrote: ↑Thu 23 May 2019 12:44 PMLev wrote: ↑Thu 23 May 2019 11:31 AMscouts got nothing and hopefully then won't get anything.
in contrary, i think, rangers should have 5.3 bows, hunters 5.0 and only scouts 5.5. so that scouts have longest range and highest critshots. that and the cc/defense from shield should be their point over the other archers. this will never happen, ranger will keep their 5.5 bows and thus stay at top (with quite some margin).
but: scouts have good synergy with mins and inf. albion just makes by far the best stealth groups and lots of people would be heavily annoyed if one of those 3 classes would be buffed even more. in a way those groups have just been buffed with the latest patch, as it's has been made easier to find other assassins for those groups.
I love people like you who have obviously never played a Scout making comments on their shield and it’s defense capabilities. Ask any NS/SB/Ranger how that shield effects them when they rip a Scout apart in Melee. Oh and Stealth groups are for assholes with Leprosy.
Well scouts do get more spec points.... And that gives you the ability to get to 52 composite in both thrust AND slash at RR5 if you so desire. And with dmg vs armor vulnerability the way it is here, that is huge.
If you sacrifice bow to 12 like melee rangers do you could spec..
37 Slash
38 Thrust
42 Shield
35 Stealth
12 bow
That is a pretty mighty and flexible melee build if you have knowledge of your targets and the ability fast weapon switch that exists on Phoenix. You could even sacrifice a little stealth the get another point or two...And don't under estimate shield. If you are clever you can get someone to waste purge...and it makes you invulnerable to arrows with the engage ability and that also allows you to easily get off the block reactionary chains. Sure it is not an "I win" but a very useful spec line.
Bumbles wrote: ↑Thu 23 May 2019 10:45 PMTrust me I attempted to run a full Melee Scout and the results were just bad.
t4coops wrote: ↑Fri 24 May 2019 3:39 AMBumbles wrote: ↑Thu 23 May 2019 10:45 PMTrust me I attempted to run a full Melee Scout and the results were just bad.
think anyone could of told you that ;p
if you want to melee go for a melee char, don't try to melee on a char meant to shoot, or rather, don't try to melee on a char with a 1hand weapon^^
qq6 wrote: ↑Fri 24 May 2019 3:09 AM@bumbles dis has no effect on IP. Its hard vs assassins for all archers, if you think rangers/hunters roll them, you are very wrong, only way to effectively escape from melee is with a speed burst / after a stun. Vs other archers, scouts actually do pretty well solo, i was playing a melee ranger, and there were a few scouts MUCH lower than me in rr, that were on par with me in melee.
t4coops wrote: ↑Fri 24 May 2019 3:49 AMlong as your mindset is to do what they said you wouldn't, 10x bigger then they said you couldn't^^
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7Y20Fch41c&t
and you'll be alright^^
bang bang !
Did i say is easy to kill 4 ppl on archer? Not4coops wrote: ↑Fri 24 May 2019 6:11 AM
and the only reason you'd think its easy to kill 4 people on a archer is because when you play your grps must get ript by solo' s and you think it has to do with rank...lol^^
which would explain everything else I suppose
Seems i hit some1 nerve.t4coops wrote: ↑Fri 24 May 2019 6:34 AMi think my last solo vid was droped before rr9-10, but good try on trying to impress your new friends here
(but i guess that's your problem then ? just need higher rank to make your class work ? just a bit more rank u need is all always right ? lolol)
hopefuly bashing me will make them think your cool, because your lack of success in rvr on a simple class def aint getting the job done \; lol
Are you playing one here ? No. That should end the discussion i guess....t4coops wrote: ↑Fri 24 May 2019 6:56 AMi know, they are way better here, for the reasons listed, that's the whole point
having a char that pops out of the blue and starts fighting where people have a TON less hp and resists and tons less tools to recover hp gives u a huge advantage
maybe every assassin having blur and ezmode swappable poisons would be easier for you^^
regardless sry to derail the thread, just saw something funny I couldn't help but respond to, don't mind me carry on !
mhenfhis wrote: ↑Fri 24 May 2019 7:05 AMAre you playing one here ? No. That should end the discussion i guess....
Bumbles wrote: ↑Thu 23 May 2019 10:39 PMArdri wrote: ↑Thu 23 May 2019 2:58 PMBumbles wrote: ↑Thu 23 May 2019 12:44 PMI love people like you who have obviously never played a Scout making comments on their shield and it’s defense capabilities. Ask any NS/SB/Ranger how that shield effects them when they rip a Scout apart in Melee. Oh and Stealth groups are for assholes with Leprosy.
Then you're playing scout wrong or playing against garbage scouts. 50 shield + ip3 and GL "ripping" a scout. Also, 2s numb stun then 12s later slam. Btw i heard minstrels are a good class to group with on alb with absorb song and AM. I hear some people even roll alb stealthers just for the minst.
This made me chuckle. Have you played a Scout here, and I mean a "solo" Scout? Not one in a stealth group...? Your premise is based abound having IP3? And Numb? Okay so let's play this out...IP3, how does that work when diseased? Seems like a waste given 80% of your fights are vs stealthers. Numb? Sure they might blow purge and IF you live to get slam off you are 60% snared so you can barely get range to get a crit/standard shot off before they blow legion/Pot and are back to the same health as before you used your bow. I tried the 50 Shield with MoB8 and the duel wield bonuses cut that apart real fast. But I get it, everyone will always say "yeah but you have Minstrels" which is such a dumb argument when they say it to people who DO NOT GROUP. Personal choice yes, and so is trying to play a Scout solo in this state of the game. But you played a Minny on Uth and would solo and yet here you play Hib and group. All personal choices.
Sepplord wrote: ↑Fri 24 May 2019 7:40 AMBumbles wrote: ↑Thu 23 May 2019 10:39 PMArdri wrote: ↑Thu 23 May 2019 2:58 PMThen you're playing scout wrong or playing against garbage scouts. 50 shield + ip3 and GL "ripping" a scout. Also, 2s numb stun then 12s later slam. Btw i heard minstrels are a good class to group with on alb with absorb song and AM. I hear some people even roll alb stealthers just for the minst.
This made me chuckle. Have you played a Scout here, and I mean a "solo" Scout? Not one in a stealth group...? Your premise is based abound having IP3? And Numb? Okay so let's play this out...IP3, how does that work when diseased? Seems like a waste given 80% of your fights are vs stealthers. Numb? Sure they might blow purge and IF you live to get slam off you are 60% snared so you can barely get range to get a crit/standard shot off before they blow legion/Pot and are back to the same health as before you used your bow. I tried the 50 Shield with MoB8 and the duel wield bonuses cut that apart real fast. But I get it, everyone will always say "yeah but you have Minstrels" which is such a dumb argument when they say it to people who DO NOT GROUP. Personal choice yes, and so is trying to play a Scout solo in this state of the game. But you played a Minny on Uth and would solo and yet here you play Hib and group. All personal choices.
quite some irony in you chuckling about other people knowledge regarding scouts and then showing that you have no idea yourself and don't even know how your RealmAbilities work
But i am sure, you are perfect in everything else, never missplay and therfor your opinion is still fact despite that minor detail you missed
mhenfhis wrote: ↑Fri 24 May 2019 6:30 AMYou are the one that used to group with HIdden, then at rr9-10 started to push for lone enforcer ( gz btw).
Sepplord wrote: But i am sure, you are perfect in everything else, never missplay and therefor your opinion is still fact despite that minor detail you missed
Sepplord wrote: ↑Fri 24 May 2019 8:46 AM
Sepplord wrote: But i am sure, you are perfect in everything else, never missplay and therefor your opinion is still fact despite that minor detail you missed
As predicted...
Sorry, but when you ride the high horse and ridicule others without even having factual proof that they are wrong, while having really huge holes in your own knowledge, then i won't believe you when you say everything else is correct.
Chances are you have no idea what you are talking about, but think you are always right. When you get proven wrong you claim: "yeah that was just one thing...i am perfect otherwise...
Shows how unchanged your attitude is...start questioning yourself from time to time
Sepplord wrote: ↑Fri 24 May 2019 8:59 AM
Chuckling at someones comment, followed with a bunch of passive agressive questions wasn't trying to ridicule that commenter?
And i don't think you believe dismissing others (by claiming that they have no idea what they are talling about and probably have never played a scout etc.) had any goal besides pushing your agenda at the cost of the other person.
Nice backpedling though... /s
t4coops wrote: ↑Fri 24 May 2019 12:46 PMit wasnt supposed to be in context, it was supposed to inspire you to quit being a bad noob and take something with a disadvantage and win anyway
stop cry your char isn't good enough when the only thing not good enough is you
t4coops wrote: ↑Fri 24 May 2019 7:03 AMand like the vid says, sit back and take note, and perhaps you will stop choke^^
one day you will embrace having a disadvantage, because winning is not fun otherwise, but aparantly your still trying to figure out how to make it work with the odds in your favor
but don't worry its ok, I suck to we can be frands., there is a lot of us and we has fun !
in the mean time ill serenade your eyes and let you witness style and grace in its most purest form ;p
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdXlqDUDhzA
Siouxsie wrote: ↑Sun 26 May 2019 12:03 PMt4coops wrote: ↑Fri 24 May 2019 7:03 AMand like the vid says, sit back and take note, and perhaps you will stop choke^^
one day you will embrace having a disadvantage, because winning is not fun otherwise, but aparantly your still trying to figure out how to make it work with the odds in your favor
but don't worry its ok, I suck to we can be frands., there is a lot of us and we has fun !
in the mean time ill serenade your eyes and let you witness style and grace in its most purest form ;p
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdXlqDUDhzA
Must be nice -- you can see assassins from afar and just smash them before they reach you.
Here on Phoenix, as soon as you see the Nightshade.. they're on top of you and they swing with both blades 3x faster than you can with a spear, they also evade you 37% of the time, and even if you use purge and IP3, you die anyway.
It's insanity.
Freedomcall wrote: ↑Sun 26 May 2019 5:21 PMWho evades your attack 37%? I just checked my screenshot vs you, but mine was 30%.
Maybe you were unbuffed when you saw 37%?
Anyway hunters can add from 2000 range with 300+ dmg every shot.
Freedomcall wrote: ↑Sun 26 May 2019 5:21 PMCheck out how much insane amount of rps he has farmed on herald. #1 rank this week with 902k rps.
Why would you ever play assassins if they don't have advantage over archers in melee?
If you want melee fights, roll SB.
Freedomcall wrote: ↑Sun 26 May 2019 5:21 PMWho evades your attack 37%? I just checked my screenshot vs you, but mine was 30%.
Maybe you were unbuffed when you saw 37%?
Anyway hunters can add from 2000 range with 300+ dmg every shot.
And that is how Limpshot is farming hibs with loads of his hunter friends in molvik.
Check out how much insane amount of rps he has farmed on herald. #1 rank this week with 902k rps.
Why would you ever play assassins if they don't have advantage over archers in melee?
If you want melee fights, roll SB.
t4coops wrote: ↑Sun 26 May 2019 9:39 PMquit living out your lives as some 1v1'sta's, and go fe9 50 bow and pop off some shots from yo bow and blast them flopsy suckas !
chois wrote: ↑Mon 27 May 2019 10:49 AMMelee for scout are not crappy (and i play a scout), pbm is one handed where u take full evade/blok/parry in front of you when your self defense shield and evade are reduced by 25% due to dual wield in front, more over the lost of spec dex diminue your defense and your melee / range damage and speed thats the bigs problems. One handed damage are the same for all sneaks, and i say just the main hand.
Dindelion wrote: ↑Mon 27 May 2019 12:03 PMHow are scout better than ranger in the ranged department ? They both use 5.5 bows but ranger has self buff and DW lol
t4coops wrote: ↑Mon 27 May 2019 12:14 PMthe dude arguing with me don't even know what range archers have and talking bout bow speeds ?
lol
t4coops wrote: ↑Fri 24 May 2019 6:56 AMi know, they are way better here, for the reasons listed, that's the whole point
having a char that pops out of the blue and starts fighting where people have a TON less hp and resists and tons less tools to recover hp gives u a huge advantage
maybe every assassin having blur and ezmode swappable poisons would be easier for you^^
regardless sry to derail the thread, just saw something funny I couldn't help but respond to, don't mind me carry on !
Tamy wrote: ↑Mon 27 May 2019 9:46 PMCan someone update me?`
- Sin vs. Archers same Stealth detection now?
Anything else? Thanks
Turano wrote: ↑Mon 27 May 2019 9:58 PMTamy wrote: ↑Mon 27 May 2019 9:46 PMCan someone update me?`
- Sin vs. Archers same Stealth detection now?
Anything else? Thanks
Archers now have better stealth detection than assas.
Assas still can see each other only at 125 range while archers can see archers and assas at 250 range
You tell me it's not accurate, then you quote the patchnote that tells exactly what i said?Yokahu wrote: ↑Mon 27 May 2019 10:15 PMTurano wrote: ↑Mon 27 May 2019 9:58 PMTamy wrote: ↑Mon 27 May 2019 9:46 PMCan someone update me?`
- Sin vs. Archers same Stealth detection now?
Anything else? Thanks
Archers now have better stealth detection than assas.
Assas still can see each other only at 125 range while archers can see archers and assas at 250 range
I don’t think that’s accurate; this is what the patch note said:
- archers now have the same detection range against archers and assassins as assassins have against archers
Turano wrote: ↑Mon 27 May 2019 10:18 PMYou tell me it's not accurate, then you quote the patchnote that tells exactly what i said?Yokahu wrote: ↑Mon 27 May 2019 10:15 PMTurano wrote: ↑Mon 27 May 2019 9:58 PMArchers now have better stealth detection than assas.
Assas still can see each other only at 125 range while archers can see archers and assas at 250 range
I don’t think that’s accurate; this is what the patch note said:
- archers now have the same detection range against archers and assassins as assassins have against archers
Turano wrote: ↑Mon 27 May 2019 10:18 PMYou tell me it's not accurate, then you quote the patchnote that tells exactly what i said?Yokahu wrote: ↑Mon 27 May 2019 10:15 PMTurano wrote: ↑Mon 27 May 2019 9:58 PMArchers now have better stealth detection than assas.
Assas still can see each other only at 125 range while archers can see archers and assas at 250 range
I don’t think that’s accurate; this is what the patch note said:
- archers now have the same detection range against archers and assassins as assassins have against archers
Yokahu wrote: ↑Mon 27 May 2019 10:40 PMTurano wrote: ↑Mon 27 May 2019 10:18 PMYou tell me it's not accurate, then you quote the patchnote that tells exactly what i said?Yokahu wrote: ↑Mon 27 May 2019 10:15 PMI don’t think that’s accurate; this is what the patch note said:
- archers now have the same detection range against archers and assassins as assassins have against archers
Does that patch note says that archer have the same detection as assassins have against archers? So they are all the same, but you said archers can see assassins further away?
gotwqqd wrote: Sounds like archers see other archers and assaddins @250
Assassins see archers @250
Assassins see assassins @125
Ok lets start at the very beginningYokahu wrote: ↑Mon 27 May 2019 10:40 PMDoes that patch note says that archer have the same detection as assassins have against archers? So they are all the same, but you said archers can see assassins further away?
Turano wrote: ↑Mon 27 May 2019 10:50 PMOk lets start at the very beginningYokahu wrote: ↑Mon 27 May 2019 10:40 PMDoes that patch note says that archer have the same detection as assassins have against archers? So they are all the same, but you said archers can see assassins further away?
Normaly stealthers can see each other at 125 units. So far so easy.
Now assassins get a special ability at 16 stealth spec called detect hidden. That enables them to see stealthing classes that don't have detect hidden at double the range, that makes 250.
So Assassins can see archers and minstrels (which both don't have detect hidden) at 250 units while they see each other (because they have detect hidden which prevents them from being detected further by said ability) at 125 units. ok?
Now here comes the custom change, archers are now allowed to see all stealthers as far as assassins see archers, which is 250 units.
Nothing has been changed on the detection assa vs assa, they still see each other at 125 units as it has always been
voila! Archers have the best stealth detection now (where is a clap emote when you need one)
Turano wrote: ↑Mon 27 May 2019 10:50 PMOk lets start at the very beginningYokahu wrote: ↑Mon 27 May 2019 10:40 PMDoes that patch note says that archer have the same detection as assassins have against archers? So they are all the same, but you said archers can see assassins further away?
Normaly stealthers can see each other at 125 units. So far so easy.
Now assassins get a special ability at 16 stealth spec called detect hidden. That enables them to see stealthing classes that don't have detect hidden at double the range, that makes 250.
So Assassins can see archers and minstrels (which both don't have detect hidden) at 250 units while they see each other (because they have detect hidden which prevents them from being detected further by said ability) at 125 units. ok?
Now here comes the custom change, archers are now allowed to see all stealthers as far as assassins see archers, which is 250 units.
Nothing has been changed on the detection assa vs assa, they still see each other at 125 units as it has always been
voila! Archers have the best stealth detection now (where is a clap emote when you need one)
jelzinga_EU wrote: ↑Tue 28 May 2019 3:38 AMTurano wrote: ↑Mon 27 May 2019 10:50 PMOk lets start at the very beginningYokahu wrote: ↑Mon 27 May 2019 10:40 PMDoes that patch note says that archer have the same detection as assassins have against archers? So they are all the same, but you said archers can see assassins further away?
Normaly stealthers can see each other at 125 units. So far so easy.
Now assassins get a special ability at 16 stealth spec called detect hidden. That enables them to see stealthing classes that don't have detect hidden at double the range, that makes 250.
So Assassins can see archers and minstrels (which both don't have detect hidden) at 250 units while they see each other (because they have detect hidden which prevents them from being detected further by said ability) at 125 units. ok?
Now here comes the custom change, archers are now allowed to see all stealthers as far as assassins see archers, which is 250 units.
Nothing has been changed on the detection assa vs assa, they still see each other at 125 units as it has always been
voila! Archers have the best stealth detection now (where is a clap emote when you need one)
I thought the same thing, but gruenes_schaf says it is the same now, since Detect Hidden isn't working like that anymore, see this Discord-convo:
Sprouty Last Wednesday at 8:44 PM
With the change, archers will be the best detecters as they will see enemy assassin's from further than an assassin will see another assassin
Since their detect hidden doesn't work against other detect hidden classes. Might make archers very wanted in groups. Guess that is scout ...
Jahrnull | Altknight Last Wednesday at 8:52 PM
I’m not following @Sprouty seems they are equal
Sprouty Last Wednesday at 8:53 PM
No. An assassin his detect hidden is cancelled when he faces a class who also has detect hidden
Sprouty Last Wednesday at 8:55 PM
Well they might customize everything, but afaik I see enemy assassin's from less distance than enemy archers?
But maybe that has been removed, I'm not sure, I didn't test it after beta
gruenes_schaf Last Wednesday at 8:56 PM
the class based detection range kind of worked similar to detect hidden and still does so in case of assassin vs assassin or assassin vs minstrel
Sprouty Last Wednesday at 8:57 PM
You showed me code snippet in beta where detect hidden was a multiplier on detect
gruenes_schaf Last Wednesday at 8:57 PM
that was before
Sprouty Last Wednesday at 8:57 PM
Before what
gruenes_schaf Last Wednesday at 8:57 PM
it was changed :p
Sprouty Last Wednesday at 8:57 PM
Recently?
Or in beta too?
gruenes_schaf Last Wednesday at 8:58 PM
october
gruenes_schaf Last Wednesday at 8:59 PM
well until the archer change today it kind of had the exact same effect
although not exactly doubling it against archers but close
Sepplord wrote: ↑Tue 28 May 2019 7:43 AMAfaik that'S just a technicality...there is no detect hidden anymore, and there is no check for detection if the target has or has not detect hidden. They just programmed it flat and technically it still works the same, it's just not called detect hidden anymore
jelzinga_EU wrote: ↑Tue 28 May 2019 8:03 AMSepplord wrote: ↑Tue 28 May 2019 7:43 AMAfaik that'S just a technicality...there is no detect hidden anymore, and there is no check for detection if the target has or has not detect hidden. They just programmed it flat and technically it still works the same, it's just not called detect hidden anymore
Bit too lazy to properly test it - but if assassins have the same detect as archers - then that would be the same as having no Detect Hidden anymore (as before that was "the differentiator" in detection)
)
Bumbles wrote: ↑Thu 30 May 2019 5:00 AMBiggest issue is Bow does not do enough damage here. Playing a Scout on Live is easy and you can do as you describe but here it's a different story..Also another thing i'm noticing is even running Falcon Eye 9 crits seems to happen on rapid fire but very rarely happen on crit shot/regular shots. But could just be the number of arrows going out, but I don't think Ive ever had a crit on crit shot...
Particularly if archer is stealthedSiouxsie wrote: ↑Sat 1 Jun 2019 2:56 PMDoesn't matter if you use crit shot. I've tried shooting Infs and NS out of stealth with crit shot.. they usually end up evading crit shot and stay stealthed.
Archer crit shot should never be evaded/parried/block.. that's complete BS mechanics right there.
Might as well run up to the target with no weapons or armor on.
Crit shots should be hitting for 800-1000 not 500-600.
AngelRose wrote: ↑Sat 1 Jun 2019 4:13 PMCrit shot popping you out of stealth is fucking lame. That needs to be either decreased or totally taken out of the game
AngelRose wrote: ↑Sat 1 Jun 2019 4:13 PMCrit shot popping you out of stealth is fucking lame. That needs to be either decreased or totally taken out of the game
Anelyn77 wrote: ↑Sat 1 Jun 2019 5:20 PMAngelRose wrote: ↑Sat 1 Jun 2019 4:13 PMCrit shot popping you out of stealth is fucking lame. That needs to be either decreased or totally taken out of the game
If it hits you, and you get crit shot from stealth, working as intended, pan camera more, it takes min. 3s (normally more like 3.5-4s) to load and fire a crit shot, you see archers from same range they see you, so unless you are semi-afk stationary it's hard to get critshot from stealth while being stealthed yourself. If you evade it, or misses, then it should not pop you out of stealth. Archery doesn't need more nerfs, it's already on the lowest end of damage dealing table, hence why most archers don't even consider going higher than 35 in bow, because the gains are minuscule, unlike live.
Bumbles wrote: ↑Sun 2 Jun 2019 3:03 PMGoing 50 Stealth is the only time that I never popped out of stealth with crit shot before the target was hit.
Oh and a fun side note; last night I did 1,539 damage to a hunter pet on my Scout before it died. Ended up being 7 rounds of melee with crit included. I think the Devs should give them another boost...
I think it’s more than adequate if they take up 3 or so attacks. No reason a pet should act as another characterAnelyn77 wrote: ↑Sun 2 Jun 2019 3:10 PMBumbles, myself being 40 BC I have yellow str/con buff for pet (think is 78 str/con effectiveness?), so maybe that's why. They are not like grey druid pets to just 2-3 shot them, if they were that would make them non-usable. Scouts don't have great melee dmg either, so it's no wonder it took you so long. If you as 1h with low melee spec (suppose you're max 39 slash or thrust) would 3 shot the pet, then 2h would just 1 shot it.
gotwqqd wrote: ↑Sun 2 Jun 2019 3:51 PMI think it’s more than adequate if they take up 3 or so attacks. No reason a pet should act as another characterAnelyn77 wrote: ↑Sun 2 Jun 2019 3:10 PMBumbles, myself being 40 BC I have yellow str/con buff for pet (think is 78 str/con effectiveness?), so maybe that's why. They are not like grey druid pets to just 2-3 shot them, if they were that would make them non-usable. Scouts don't have great melee dmg either, so it's no wonder it took you so long. If you as 1h with low melee spec (suppose you're max 39 slash or thrust) would 3 shot the pet, then 2h would just 1 shot it.
jelzinga_EU wrote: ↑Sun 2 Jun 2019 3:25 PMBumbles wrote: ↑Sun 2 Jun 2019 3:03 PMGoing 50 Stealth is the only time that I never popped out of stealth with crit shot before the target was hit.
Oh and a fun side note; last night I did 1,539 damage to a hunter pet on my Scout before it died. Ended up being 7 rounds of melee with crit included. I think the Devs should give them another boost...
What amount of melee combat-rounds from a scout (1H; possibly low melee spec) do you think is OK to kill a pet ?
chois wrote: ↑Sun 2 Jun 2019 3:28 PMtoo long, slam the pet and fight the hunt, and go melee spec bow is dead since long time for scout
chois wrote: ↑Sun 2 Jun 2019 6:05 PMi m 50 slash 42 shield 27 bow 31 stalth, and i dont hit by 80 damage....
stop think the damage with one handed are gimp, it s the same damage MH than the others sneak
Turano wrote: ↑Sun 2 Jun 2019 7:03 PMFrom all the archers Scouts definitely got hit the hardest by the charge nerf.
Hunters and Rangers are stronger after it and Hunters got their pet buffed to a pretty nice lvl.
All Scouts have is slam, which makes then mostly annoying in 1v1. They definitely have their strengths in stealther grp play with guarding and stunning enemies with slam or giving what support fire they can with their nerfed dex/qui
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