How to save Pheonix after the recent population dive

not sure the problem seems to all happen at once....
ddos attacks prob had a bit to do with it, seems to be fine now tho and not much better....
perhaps buff changes ? I can see how someone who plan their ra's out and gets excited to log on and grind out some rps to get the ra' they want to (think atleast lol) they gonna rip, then all of a sudden now if they put all them hours and hours and hours into be better to beat the people they have trouble with....instead all of the work wil be just to get back to where they were hella long time ago.... ooof

regardless there is a problem and needs to be priority #1 imo

perhaps lot of the random not so good players cant find groups get bored and stop play ? I have a hard time myself why I just solo or duo with my friend,.. daoc needs to cator to the random not so good players because that is mostly what plays

need to bring siege warfare back into the game, so the everyday randoms got things to do

need allow ports to keeps in your own realm and make it very clear when 1 is under attack, so people who cant get grps or w/e can go defend keeps, and port there and meet other people there and group up and get to meet friends, or atleast be in the safety of a keep defending and win or lose atleast be out there fighting with something to do

or perhaps a randomly rotating keep in each realm that gives a fat bonus for taking, so people atleast know which keep to make their way out to to get in, but still keep them actively moving thro zones to not kill the roaming action down south (like ghostfang keep on live)

least im sad to see the population drasticly drop and i hope it doesn't continue that way, i think the bored people with not much to do and cant get groups could keep them selves busy and entertained if they could all port around to keeps under attack and go out and play without relying on others if necessary

not to mention i always hear people qq bout how boring it is to join the BG, no one is in the keeps to defend much, just pveing the doors basicly
(im almost rr7 and haven't been to 1 keep take yet, i never know when they under attack and if i find out doubt ill make it in time or w/e ect so)

i know phoenix's are known for rising out of the ashes but sometimes everyone can use a helping hand ^^

thanks and cheers

Mon 20 May 2019 1:46 PM by kedelin

I agree they need the realm war map like live showing what is under siege.. also need to have some kind of postern/second way to get in keeps... as is if you go to a keep being attacked you can't defined cause no way to get inside

Mon 20 May 2019 1:53 PM by Ceen

I think in the long run we either end up with less population, which solves the OF choke point problem or if we are lucky we can sustain the high pop and switch to NF =)
Don't really like both scenarios but it's gonna happen, read it up in Nostradamus.

Mon 20 May 2019 1:57 PM by Luluko

I can only speak for myself but it gets harder and harder to justify logging in either spending time on pve to level toons or rvr and then having to deal with getting either no grps or getting zerged if you solo on a visible. Would be different if you could at least find decent zerg action which isnt just focused on walls/keeps where you can actually kill people with a few spells before they are out of los again or get healed. Solo action on skald in none emain zones was also not very appealing the last few weeks add to that friends rarely logging in anymore then getting your ass whooped solo by bard duos thanks to instant amnesia range. Yeah I have more fun reading the /freefolk subbreddit with all the memes than having to work really hard to even get 8k rps an hour and even then its not really fun anymore, if all you do is running the gauntlet always with the same class because of no bp speed. So if I login I usually play thid 1-2 hours and thats it. But thats just my experience.

Mon 20 May 2019 1:58 PM by dstrmberg

Need to get all the L50s out of PvE and into RvR.

Mon 20 May 2019 2:08 PM by t4coops

dstrmberg wrote: ↑
Mon 20 May 2019 1:58 PM
Need to get all the L50s out of PvE and into RvR.

putting mini bosses around the frontier that take a decent group to kill could be great, enough of a reward to make pve'rs spend their time in the frontier to make gold, or even the pvp'rs to keep up with gold for pots, make gold in the frontier rather then sheeries hills which just got nerfed, be perfect timing for soemting like that imo^^

can be many simple fixes, ithink spaming global chat with which keep is undersiege and let u port there to defend wouldn't take much work, or the idea of making it a viable way to make good gold while doing things that have you running around out in the frontier

(also no more graycons in frontier to lvl off tasks also was during the time of the changes and population drop, perhaps the presence of all those extra players out in about and now lack of makes it seem dead, or appear dead so people log off cuz not what they used to seeing, I say reroll the settings back and then also an idea like 1 of the 2 above to go with it and give the server a jump start while theres still an opportunity)

Mon 20 May 2019 2:27 PM by t4coops

aswell as i hope the threats of bans in yellow text for saying words like shit and ass in a non mean towards anyone way in region chat on a game with /filter stop aswell, its rather ridiculous, and the desperate need to try to flex muscles on petty stuff like thati s simply embarrassing, also hall monitoring discord like its a preschool or kindergarden class is not inviting to anyone, gm's should rmemeber their goal is to make us all enjoy playing, not treat us like we are lucky to and are happy to quickly make us not

most are awesome tho ! just some need to learn from live's mistakes

(special if the population is dwindling, don't need to run anyone off for no reason ;\)

Mon 20 May 2019 2:29 PM by makkator

Having only one Speed-Class per Realm is blocking so much Grps from rolling ... if you have no Skald/Bard/Minst you cant participate but in a mindless Zerg.

I bet more subotimal Grps counting 4-8 man would run if they had speed ...

Thats my impression when i log in to find a group. You must find a Grp with Speed or you stay in base, and Speedclasses mostly join optimal 8mans (or guild/friend grps ofc).

Mon 20 May 2019 2:33 PM by dstrmberg

t4coops wrote: ↑
Mon 20 May 2019 2:08 PM
dstrmberg wrote: ↑
Mon 20 May 2019 1:58 PM
Need to get all the L50s out of PvE and into RvR.

putting mini bosses around the frontier that take a decent group to kill could be great, enough of a reward to make pve'rs spend their time in the frontier to make gold, or even the pvp'rs to keep up with gold for pots, make gold in the frontier rather then sheeries hills which just got nerfed, be perfect timing for soemting like that imo^^

can be many simple fixes, ithink spaming global chat with which keep is undersiege and let u port there to defend wouldn't take much work, or the idea of making it a viable way to make good gold while doing things that have you running around out in the frontier

(also no more graycons in frontier to lvl off tasks also was during the time of the changes and population drop, perhaps the presence of all those extra players out in about and now lack of makes it seem dead, or appear dead so people log off cuz not what they used to seeing, I say reroll the settings back and then also an idea like 1 of the 2 above to go with it and give the server a jump start while theres still an opportunity)

Nice idea, perhaps a Randomly generated Mob (Like diablo 3 packs) at a random location in FZ. Only the Zone where mob is located is announced. Big rewards for killing.

Mon 20 May 2019 3:13 PM by bigne88

For me the main issue is the ridicolous amount of invi players witch zerg and camp gates and add 8v8 fights.

At least this is the reason that made me rage quit.
And the dropd nerf too. Forcing players to pve dosent alpeal me, at least.

Mon 20 May 2019 3:55 PM by Jatar

dstrmberg wrote: ↑
Mon 20 May 2019 1:58 PM
Need to get all the L50s out of PvE and into RvR.

I bet that would drop the population even more. Most of my friends left because they dislike RVR on this server, mostly the task system. My other friends only stick around for Thidranki action and they're not liking those changes either. Can't seem to win either way.

Mon 20 May 2019 4:00 PM by Lollie

reducing 12 realm timer. Playing one realm gets tedious and people fancy a change of scenery for a few hours, no-one in this day and age should have to juggle timers to play a a game tbh.

Mon 20 May 2019 4:11 PM by Yokahu

How can you tell what’s the population of Phoenix when it’s not your playing hours?

The website I used to use to check the health of the server has not been updated in weeks now.
https://unixgeek.com/phoenix.html

Mon 20 May 2019 4:23 PM by shintacki

OF was fun for a while but the nostalgia has worn off. Maybe I’m biased because I play hib and don’t like running to emain but it’s time for NF. If the devs aren’t actively working to make NF a possibility in the future they need to be.

Mon 20 May 2019 4:51 PM by kmark101

I stopped logging because the game just simply boring after a certain point by its own design. Mythic solved this with more content (then equally fucked it with the same content), then solved the reason of war with another game later (Warhammer Online). The game feels pointless, same old mindless headless pointless killing, overrun smaller forces or being overrun by large forces. Keeps, relics, etc.. have 0 meaning. I just can't find any incentive to log on.

Mon 20 May 2019 4:57 PM by stinsfire

shintacki wrote: ↑
Mon 20 May 2019 4:23 PM
OF was fun for a while but the nostalgia has worn off. Maybe I’m biased because I play hib and don’t like running to emain but it’s time for NF. If the devs aren’t actively working to make NF a possibility in the future they need to be.

Im trying my best to camp Ligen so you don't have to run that far

Mon 20 May 2019 5:03 PM by t4coops

im having fun in OF, new frontiers is boring zzzzz, been same way to long, nice to roam around diff areas, least for me anyway still only been here like 2 months tho I msised it all I guess ;\

just need it how it is now with ports to keeps when on fire so people can go defend and rvr without needing a group, that they aren't able to get without waiting awile or something usualy, and perhaps just allow port there if its under attack, not if not so wouldnt change the game that much from now

then put bosses around the rvr zones for different level of grp sizes for feathers or something so people can pve while being in the frontier giving the rvr's something to do aswell, and people will be out there fighting for the mobs to ect

gogogo !

oh and while we taking care of everything if you want to just totally delete bd's that would be ok ! ;p if not yo ucan atleast make the 4 sec insta lt (the thing that hits casters for like 25% without crit(take like 16 seconds to kill a caster without ever stop moving or even trying to cast a spell) and heals the bd, every 4 sec from deep gg lol) reuse long enough to get 1 nuke in between atleast sometimes -_- lol

Mon 20 May 2019 5:30 PM by Pops999

History will repeat itself. WoW classic is coming in August.

Mon 20 May 2019 5:35 PM by phixion

And WoW classic will last a month or 2 at most, because there is simply nothing to do end game. PvP is a joke.

I stopped playing because I got bored, DAoC is full of trolls that will do anything to ruin your gameplay experience (including moving in 8 man stealth zergs).

The buff nerf was a nail in the coffin for me, It's clear the staff do not want soloers here... I know they promote the zerging aspect to the fullest but I never thought they would turn on soloers.

Mon 20 May 2019 5:46 PM by florin

phixion wrote: ↑
Mon 20 May 2019 5:35 PM
And WoW classic will last a month or 2 at most, because there is simply nothing to do end game. PvP is a joke.

I stopped playing because I got bored, DAoC is full of trolls that will do anything to ruin your gameplay experience (including moving in 8 man stealth zergs).

The buff nerf was a nail in the coffin for me, It's clear the staff do not want soloers here... I know they promote the zerging aspect to the fullest but I never thought they would turn on soloers.

I’m fine with adders, leechers , zergs and trolls - being peed on by staff and told it’s raining, not fine with. I can hear the excuses already - it’s summer everyone is outside the population will rebound.

No no it won’t when there is utter disdain for soloers

Mon 20 May 2019 5:53 PM by t4coops

oldschool daoc vet laughing at wow arena 1v2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIL35CqqgII

them 2 dk's tho ;p hauehUAHEuhaehuhaeueHUh bang bang !

Mon 20 May 2019 6:15 PM by Horus

florin wrote: ↑
Mon 20 May 2019 5:46 PM
No no it won’t when there is utter disdain for soloers

Huh?
Other than not allowing buffbots, this is by far the most solo friendly version (PvE and RvR) of DaoC I've ever played...and I've played them all. Not sure what you are talking about... The most easily available self buffs ever, enhanced speed and teleports, easy perma sprint, solo friendly RAs...hell you could make an argument it is TOO easy for solo.

Mon 20 May 2019 6:43 PM by Yokahu

florin wrote: ↑
Mon 20 May 2019 5:46 PM
phixion wrote: ↑
Mon 20 May 2019 5:35 PM
And WoW classic will last a month or 2 at most, because there is simply nothing to do end game. PvP is a joke.

I stopped playing because I got bored, DAoC is full of trolls that will do anything to ruin your gameplay experience (including moving in 8 man stealth zergs).

The buff nerf was a nail in the coffin for me, It's clear the staff do not want soloers here... I know they promote the zerging aspect to the fullest but I never thought they would turn on soloers.

I’m fine with adders, leechers , zergs and trolls - being peed on by staff and told it’s raining, not fine with. I can hear the excuses already - it’s summer everyone is outside the population will rebound.

No no it won’t when there is utter disdain for soloers

Seriously, which website are you guys using to see the peak daily players?

I have the feeling population dropped a bit (not that much thou) but haven’t found a website with that info. I think I’m just playing in the non-prime hours (which is fine) and that the population is fine.

Mon 20 May 2019 6:49 PM by mhenfhis

Horus wrote: ↑
Mon 20 May 2019 6:15 PM
florin wrote: ↑
Mon 20 May 2019 5:46 PM
No no it won’t when there is utter disdain for soloers
Huh?
Other than not allowing buffbots, this is by far the most solo friendly version (PvE and RvR) of DaoC I've ever played...and I've played them all. Not sure what you are talking about... The most easily available self buffs ever, enhanced speed and teleports, easy perma sprint, solo friendly RAs...hell you could make an argument it is TOO easy for solo.

I think is more problem with OF than with teleports/sprint/buffs etc.. With NNF you had ruined keeps, mazes and more available zones, that alllowed solos visible to hide . WIth OF and a visible what is it? run to mg and hope you get one fight till the fg comes and kill you?.

Mon 20 May 2019 7:35 PM by Ceen

t4coops wrote: ↑
Mon 20 May 2019 2:27 PM
aswell as i hope the threats of bans in yellow text for saying words like shit and ass in a non mean towards anyone way in region chat on a game with /filter stop aswell, its rather ridiculous, and the desperate need to try to flex muscles on petty stuff like thati s simply embarrassing, also hall monitoring discord like its a preschool or kindergarden class is not inviting to anyone, gm's should rmemeber their goal is to make us all enjoy playing, not treat us like we are lucky to and are happy to quickly make us not

most are awesome tho ! just some need to learn from live's mistakes

(special if the population is dwindling, don't need to run anyone off for no reason ;\)

We don't need this kind of players you describe, they are no loss, it's more a win for the server is all the kids are back to fortnite.

Mon 20 May 2019 7:36 PM by Luluko

Yokahu wrote: ↑
Mon 20 May 2019 6:43 PM
florin wrote: ↑
Mon 20 May 2019 5:46 PM
phixion wrote: ↑
Mon 20 May 2019 5:35 PM
And WoW classic will last a month or 2 at most, because there is simply nothing to do end game. PvP is a joke.

I stopped playing because I got bored, DAoC is full of trolls that will do anything to ruin your gameplay experience (including moving in 8 man stealth zergs).

The buff nerf was a nail in the coffin for me, It's clear the staff do not want soloers here... I know they promote the zerging aspect to the fullest but I never thought they would turn on soloers.

I’m fine with adders, leechers , zergs and trolls - being peed on by staff and told it’s raining, not fine with. I can hear the excuses already - it’s summer everyone is outside the population will rebound.

No no it won’t when there is utter disdain for soloers

Seriously, which website are you guys using to see the peak daily players?

I have the feeling population dropped a bit (not that much thou) but haven’t found a website with that info. I think I’m just playing in the non-prime hours (which is fine) and that the population is fine.

If I just go by the numbers on the "main site" its usually between 900-1600 when I look it up durint eu hours

Mon 20 May 2019 7:42 PM by Luluko

Horus wrote: ↑
Mon 20 May 2019 6:15 PM
florin wrote: ↑
Mon 20 May 2019 5:46 PM
No no it won’t when there is utter disdain for soloers
Huh?
Other than not allowing buffbots, this is by far the most solo friendly version (PvE and RvR) of DaoC I've ever played...and I've played them all. Not sure what you are talking about... The most easily available self buffs ever, enhanced speed and teleports, easy perma sprint, solo friendly RAs...hell you could make an argument it is TOO easy for solo.

no bp speed or horses is a huge factor since even the stealthers will find less targets if nobody wants to run to the next action if you lose your speed otw, that also focuses the action in spots where people dont have to run far like emain and also the milegates are deathtraps for solos since every stealthergrp can camp there and pa you. If the alternatives zones dont provide enough action or you have to walk too far just to get killed by 2+ and also lose your buffs people will stop bothering logging in if they cant solo or get a grp. Then add to that the farming nerf and its getting quite demotivating to login anymore especially if your realmrank progression is already very slow.

Mon 20 May 2019 8:04 PM by Druth

Not sure why people expected miracles from the server.

So many different people making suggestions, and almost none of them can see the negative impacts of their change/or not making the change.
What some people see as a unjustified nerf to their class/playstyle, others see as a buff to theirs.

I really wish more people could stand back and either say:
- Okay, while I liked the change I see the damage it does to people.
or
- Okay, while the change hurt me it was a fair change in a bigger perspective.

Red is dead, adding, realm jumping (making friends across realms), stealth zergs, zerging, PvE'ing keeps while dodging fights.
And to this all the constant bickering about who plays the game correct.
One post people will say red is dead when xp'ers complain about ganking, and then you can go back 2 weeks and see them complain other groups add their fights.

And we wonder people don't stay?

Mon 20 May 2019 8:50 PM by Ardri

A lot of people took a break when the ddos stuff happened, me included. Just do a PvE xp weekend event. Make all of frontiers 200% XP boost. Boom, instant population increase.

Mon 20 May 2019 8:58 PM by MacPrior

No idea, why you all are talking about population problem. It is 22:30 European Time, Each realm has 600 players online. It is more, then healthy. DAOC was designed for such population figures. Yes , there were times with the population count about 3K /a server. But it was too much - many lags, lot of LDs, no possible to enter the server.

So, the population currently is OK, the problem is the dominating play style on this server and it is the Zerg and huge number of solos just running into own realm zerg or into enemy zerg hoping to gain some RPs.

Well DAOC was always focused on RvR -> Realm vs Realm - > so - ZERG.

I didnt like really NF, but there the situation with zerging was better. Zergs flighted each other in emain and in different realms too, 8er groups was ranning mainly Agramon or in a dedicated realm avoiding zergs, around the main keeps on the bridges there were plenty of solos and small groups running too. And there was a huge part of community interested for keep fights - Deff and Raid - only. I must say, keep fights there were a way better then over here - other keep design(!), portable keeps, mounts.

On Phoenix keep fights are mostly just boring, reli fight just doesnt exits. Best action you kann get - just camp or defend the realm wall.... day for day. Sorry after one month I have enough from.

Mon 20 May 2019 9:02 PM by Naffy

Population drops because of non stop mid zerg.
Accept it.

Mon 20 May 2019 9:28 PM by AngelRose

I haven't played in a while because archers are not fun. How badly has the population dropped?

Mon 20 May 2019 9:47 PM by t4coops

MacPrior wrote: ↑
Mon 20 May 2019 8:58 PM
No idea, why you all are talking about population problem. It is 22:30 European Time, Each realm has 600 players online. It is more, then healthy. DAOC was designed for such population figures. Yes , there were times with the population count about 3K /a server. But it was too much - many lags, lot of LDs, no possible to enter the server.

after like 11pm my time all thro the night theres like 30 of each realm in frontier, sometimes I seen it in the teens with like 10 being stealthers, pretty unplayable ;\

when live died at night all those people stopped logging in, then it took a hit at all times ;\

just hoping they got a game plan or something in the works to help is all

I just got here QQ lol

Mon 20 May 2019 11:07 PM by phixion

Let us not pretend that the charge fiasco hasn't played a huge part in all of this.

Making changes is fine, but devs seemed to ignore suggestions and come up with their own solution, a solution which alienated a certain playerbase.

Tue 21 May 2019 1:14 AM by ExcretusMaximus

The ratio of stealthers to visibles is too high in stealther's favor for the health of the game.

The server would have been better off in the long run if they had just disabled all stealth abilities.

Tue 21 May 2019 1:34 AM by kratoxin

Naffy wrote: ↑
Mon 20 May 2019 9:02 PM
Population drops because of non stop mid zerg.
Accept it.

You're kidding right? Hibernia owns everything every day.. Alb zergs as well as mid.. Don't be targeting just 1 realm lmfao!

Tue 21 May 2019 2:01 AM by Numatic

AngelRose wrote: ↑
Mon 20 May 2019 9:28 PM
I haven't played in a while because archers are not fun. How badly has the population dropped?

It's at about 50% or so from the first couple months. Give or take 10%. Its still roughly 1500 at peak hours which is plenty. It was never going to sustain that population it had in the begining. Private servers never do. It's at the point now that the long term players are mostly what are here now. It will continue to dwindle a bit most likely to around 1200 peak over the coming months and probably hover there for a year. Then the long term players will start to leave eventually. It's the life cycle of private game servers. I've played on over 50 different servers across a multitude of games and it's almost spot on how it goes. The only reason Phoenix may continue a higher population for longer is because it's really the only private server left for daoc. Uthgard is pretty much dead since they had their chance they will never get the population back.

Tue 21 May 2019 2:01 AM by florin

Horus wrote: ↑
Mon 20 May 2019 6:15 PM
florin wrote: ↑
Mon 20 May 2019 5:46 PM
No no it won’t when there is utter disdain for soloers
Huh?
Other than not allowing buffbots, this is by far the most solo friendly version (PvE and RvR) of DaoC I've ever played...and I've played them all. Not sure what you are talking about... The most easily available self buffs ever, enhanced speed and teleports, easy perma sprint, solo friendly RAs...hell you could make an argument it is TOO easy for solo.

Others have answered this before.
Charge nerf affects soloers the most
Loot nerf affects solo farmers more
Raids and instances are targeted for group / Zerg only. Outside df nothing rewarding for a solo player

Now some will say “ug you play mmo,
Why not group?”

Cause I group all day at work and at home and playing solo is relaxing

Tue 21 May 2019 2:16 AM by t4coops

some game I played I don't remember which but they never nerfed anyone, they just made everyone else a tad better instead, that way no one ever really felt they took a fat loss lol, always thought that was smart of t hem^^ specialy here with this buff change and im new still to here and gung ho like oo ima get osme rps then be a beast !

then it was like, oo if I get hella rp's ill maybe eventualy get back to where I was when I started at rank1 2 months ago, ooof lol

(im still playing but ijs I can see how people would be like eh kinda sounds more fun to go watch tv or something ;\ all my hopes and dreams got shat on lol)

Tue 21 May 2019 5:00 AM by Druth

ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 1:14 AM
The ratio of stealthers to visibles is too high in stealther's favor for the health of the game.

The server would have been better off in the long run if they had just disabled all stealth abilities.

I share the same view, thought not as drastic...
But I think the health of stealthers are at the cost of the health of casuals, and forcing the ones left into zerging.
Don't have any evidence for it, because for the most part the casuals that leave can't be questioned for why they left.

Tue 21 May 2019 5:12 AM by qq6

Wish devs would communicate their goals/plans more tbh, and, listen to community before making any kind of major Balance changes, at the end of the day, they made a public server, but it feels like its not so much about the public. Kinda like one of those big name games where the company just runs it into the ground without ever listening to what players want. But, my thanks none the less for making me take a dive into daoc again, was good fun up to a point.

//ty

Tue 21 May 2019 5:17 AM by Ceen

ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 1:14 AM
The ratio of stealthers to visibles is too high in stealther's favor for the health of the game.

The server would have been better off in the long run if they had just disabled all stealth abilities.

That would be the best, but imo removing stealth from minstrel is the biggest one.
Playing mainly alb I can still see the struggle to fight vs a stealth zerg containing speed 6, mezz, AM, insta stun what ever.

But this thread is just the normal - 4 month after release the server didn't turn out how I hoped it would - QQ thread.
The population is decreasing on a steady state, it's not like one major nerf is the issue.

Tue 21 May 2019 5:20 AM by Druth

qq6 wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 5:12 AM
Wish devs would communicate their goals/plans more tbh, and, listen to community before making any kind of major Balance changes, at the end of the day, they made a public server, but it feels like its not so much about the public. Kinda like one of those big name games where the company just runs it into the ground without ever listening to what players want. But, my thanks none the less for making me take a dive into daoc again, was good fun up to a point.

//ty

It's worthless listening to a community, unless that community debate honest and openly, when dealing with nerfs to their own class/playstyle/realm.

Tue 21 May 2019 5:23 AM by Ceen

Druth wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 5:20 AM
qq6 wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 5:12 AM
Wish devs would communicate their goals/plans more tbh, and, listen to community before making any kind of major Balance changes, at the end of the day, they made a public server, but it feels like its not so much about the public. Kinda like one of those big name games where the company just runs it into the ground without ever listening to what players want. But, my thanks none the less for making me take a dive into daoc again, was good fun up to a point.

//ty

It's worthless listening to a community, unless that community debate honest and openly, when dealing with nerfs to their own class/playstyle/realm.

Yeah everyone knows for themself, if there is a major change or proposal for a change, you will add an extra 100 tears to your post and bend the "facts" as much as you can, because you assume everyone does and you don't want to pick the short straw

SO here we are

Tue 21 May 2019 5:43 AM by Druth

Ceen wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 5:23 AM
Yeah everyone knows for themself, if there is a major change or proposal for a change, you will add an extra 100 tears to your post and bend the "facts" as much as you can, because you assume everyone does and you don't want to pick the short straw
SO here we are

Lol yeah, and just look at the vanish thread. It's full of assassins both downplaying it's effect and that they rarely if ever use it, but also that it's a super important RA for assassins. Guess what they might be saying is that good assassins don't need it, but that they are defending it to protect the newbie assassins.

Insta aoe amnesia is both not very good, but also really important for hib groups.

My examples are not what I want nerfed, but that people protecting them are really dishonest and both try to portray their favorite toy as weak, but also vital.

Say vanish is nuts, but that it's nuts because stealth needs a nerf.
Say insta amnesia is amazing, but that hib groups are balanced around having it.
Say something else than the crap I see, and then maybe, just maybe the Devs would discuss changes before implementing them.

Tue 21 May 2019 6:46 AM by Sepplord

Numatic wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 2:01 AM
AngelRose wrote: ↑
Mon 20 May 2019 9:28 PM
I haven't played in a while because archers are not fun. How badly has the population dropped?

It's at about 50% or so from the first couple months. Give or take 10%. Its still roughly 1500 at peak hours which is plenty. It was never going to sustain that population it had in the begining. Private servers never do. It's at the point now that the long term players are mostly what are here now. It will continue to dwindle a bit most likely to around 1200 peak over the coming months and probably hover there for a year. Then the long term players will start to leave eventually. It's the life cycle of private game servers. I've played on over 50 different servers across a multitude of games and it's almost spot on how it goes. The only reason Phoenix may continue a higher population for longer is because it's really the only private server left for daoc. Uthgard is pretty much dead since they had their chance they will never get the population back.

Good summary, i would just exclude the "private" server remarks...most MMOs follow those population-dives. Losing 50% population in the first few months of a game is normal (especially since we only see logged in players, not active accounts).

Tue 21 May 2019 6:58 AM by dstrmberg

phixion wrote: ↑
Mon 20 May 2019 5:35 PM
I stopped playing because I got bored, DAoC is full of trolls that will do anything to ruin your gameplay experience (including moving in 8 man stealth zergs).

You don't get to decide how other people should play an open world pvp game, bro. Adapt or die!

Tue 21 May 2019 7:38 AM by t4coops

how its been since last patch at only like 10pm my time ;\ (west coast usa) all the way thro the night and gets all down to those alb numbers later into the night

which is oks ! just needa make sure yall plottin and a schemeing over there to please the players requests and desires who left or are qqign ! who care what it is long as you keep them logging on, they is the wood for this smoldering fire !

and we don't wanna get cold ;\

Tue 21 May 2019 8:52 AM by Valaraukar

ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 1:14 AM
The ratio of stealthers to visibles is too high in stealther's favor for the health of the game.

The server would have been better off in the long run if they had just disabled all stealth abilities.

I agree! Because of the qol things to speed up exp is pretty easy to have a stealther char here, while normally it is a pain to get to lvl50.
Stealthers here are way too many compared to "normal" classes. And this is not good for the general health of the game.
And they also whine about buff/charges changes 😂

Tue 21 May 2019 9:03 AM by makkator

My mindset when I log in is:
I want to 8-man-RvR, then I look for a grp in guild. If there is one not full (rarely) - I join. Fun.
Mostly there are people willing to run, but no speed - so no RvR.
Running solo/smallman as non stealth/speed is annoying since you cant escape fgs/zerg.
The alternative is zerging, but it gets boring soon.
whats the alternative to sit endlessly in keep or zerg? Stealth.
Im now leveling a SB

Id suggest giving max speed to more classes, so you can roam as smallmen/nonoptimal grp.

Tue 21 May 2019 9:33 AM by Ashman

stealther overpopulation is because of the xp rate (fine) and the new ra´s (not fine).

i remember when in beta everyone cried for new ra´s
daddy schaf i want to purge every slam
daddy schaf i want to vanish when i jump someone whos better than me

so they got it and patched alb out of the game in the meantime (everyone has same ra´s,alb still has shitty grpbuild options)
then they even nerf mandatory alb classes into the ground (theu,minst) and buff irrelevant ones (pala,friar)

so now we have a two realm game with one of them underpopulated and some stupid albs to serve as rp boost in between

great success

Tue 21 May 2019 9:38 AM by REVOLTE

makkator wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 9:03 AM
Id suggest giving max speed to more classes, so you can roam as smallmen/nonoptimal grp.

So how would you plan to balance the current speedclasses?

..

exactly.

Tue 21 May 2019 11:01 AM by broalition

t4coops wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 7:38 AM

damn, and i thought live was dead. oooof.

Tue 21 May 2019 11:32 AM by Dominus

3:38 AM your time? is what? start of work in EU? Middle of the work week? I thought most of the player base was >30 and presumably "worked".

Tue 21 May 2019 11:37 AM by Anelyn77

REVOLTE wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 9:38 AM
makkator wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 9:03 AM
Id suggest giving max speed to more classes, so you can roam as smallmen/nonoptimal grp.

So how would you plan to balance the current speedclasses?

..

exactly.

Great point, I bet nobody thought about the effects of giving everyone speed 6 outside of their own benefits. Bards would be fine as they are pivotal in any hib group, but for minstrel and skald it looks really grim hahaha!

Tue 21 May 2019 1:19 PM by Loki

Druth wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 5:43 AM
Ceen wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 5:23 AM
Yeah everyone knows for themself, if there is a major change or proposal for a change, you will add an extra 100 tears to your post and bend the "facts" as much as you can, because you assume everyone does and you don't want to pick the short straw
SO here we are

Lol yeah, and just look at the vanish thread. It's full of assassins both downplaying it's effect and that they rarely if ever use it, but also that it's a super important RA for assassins. Guess what they might be saying is that good assassins don't need it, but that they are defending it to protect the newbie assassins.

Insta aoe amnesia is both not very good, but also really important for hib groups.

My examples are not what I want nerfed, but that people protecting them are really dishonest and both try to portray their favorite toy as weak, but also vital.

Say vanish is nuts, but that it's nuts because stealth needs a nerf.
Say insta amnesia is amazing, but that hib groups are balanced around having it.
Say something else than the crap I see, and then maybe, just maybe the Devs would discuss changes before implementing them.

Dude, you have already shown your true colors. You "dont hate assassins" , but think "they're pathetic" . Now you keep browsing these forums looking for details to validate your bigoted narrow-minded view, with a bunch of herald statistics in your right hand and a fake desire to save the server in your left hand. Yes yes, Druth who knows everything just by looking at numbers, will save the server. You've done enough already tbh.

When it comes to stealthers, you have no credibility because of your own admitted bias. Just stop talking about them, you are embarrassing yourself with your lack of knowledge when it comes to Phoenix custom changes. Make a SB, show us how easy it can be. Then we can talk.

The nerve you have to talk about dishonesty ... astonishing .

Tue 21 May 2019 1:55 PM by Druth

Loki wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 1:19 PM
Dude, you have already shown your true colors. You "dont hate assassins" , but think "they're pathetic" . Now you keep browsing these forums looking for details to validate your bigoted narrow-minded view, with a bunch of herald statistics in your right hand and a fake desire to save the server in your left hand. Yes yes, Druth who knows everything just by looking at numbers, will save the server. You've done enough already tbh.

When it comes to stealthers, you have no credibility because of your own admitted bias. Just stop talking about them, you are embarrassing yourself with your lack of knowledge when it comes to Phoenix custom changes. Make a SB, show us how easy it can be. Then we can talk.

The nerve you have to talk about dishonesty ... astonishing .

Duel with pistols at dawn?

Calm the freak down... I posted Herald stats because assassins, and especially SB's were crying floods of tears about how weak they were/are, and yet the Herald painted the complete opposite picture. I suggested people try to either show me different figures, or explain why they thought the numbers were that different from what they said. I got a half-assed answer that involves a few dedicated people who play SB. I then excluded top 50, and the results still showed SB dominance.
Finally I got silence.
We have classes that don't even show up in weekly herald, and yet SB's (that are at top) manage to make a 20 page thread about how they are at a disadvantage.
It screams biased crap to me.
Then they started (and yes, that was again mainly SB's) to cry about friars. And looking at Herald, there are 6 SB's before we come to the first friar.

I'm sorry if I don't think we should make changes here based on feelings alone.

And finally, yes I have advocated to nerf assassins, because I think they are bad for the server. But every time I also state that I have no evidence to back it up with.
That is honesty, which is what is lacking when SB's wants access to crush, assassins wants to keep poison-swap, or say they only use vanish to dodge the zerg.

I 100% agree, numbers does NOT give you the answer, but there has to be some sort of correlation between your claims and what the numbers show. If the numbers show the opposite of what people claim, there is a high chance they are filling you with crap.

Edit: And don't pretend me making a SB would change anything, it's a strawman argument. I never claimed that what people wrote is wrong, just that all the evidence points the opposite direction.

Tue 21 May 2019 2:02 PM by phixion

dstrmberg wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 6:58 AM
phixion wrote: ↑
Mon 20 May 2019 5:35 PM
I stopped playing because I got bored, DAoC is full of trolls that will do anything to ruin your gameplay experience (including moving in 8 man stealth zergs).

You don't get to decide how other people should play an open world pvp game, bro. Adapt or die!

Did I say I was deciding on how others should play? Part of the reason I stopped playing is because of other peoples' playstyles. I didn't open a petition to beg people to stop playing so mindlessly.

Server "attitude" varies a lot depending on server. The playerbase here has the zerg mentality and that ain't changing anytime soon--until they kill the server pop completely. I know for sure a lot of players are new here and are finding the zerging shit fun atm but as we are coming to see, the novelty wears off in the end and people stop playing because it simply isn't fun anymore.

I am NOT saying people didn't zerg back in the day. But when you saw a zerg they were usually doing something like taking keeps or relics, not running around emain ganking everyone in sight. I was simply listing a few reasons why I stopped playing, dealing with people who run 24/7 in 8 man stealth zergs ain't fun and I refuse to permanently move in a stealth zerg to fight against it.

The Charge nerf was just the straw that broke the camel's back. I still don't understand why the staff felt the need to do it, when their first aim was to reduce the cost of charges. What we got instead was a change to Charges which rendered them useless and then the slap in the face when we were only offered 50% of feathers back as a refund, and that only came when people pushed for it.

Not saying I will never log in again, but I haven't played more than 30 minutes since the Charge nerf was brought in.

The way this and a few other changes were made here made me question a few things.

And now everyone is whining about too many stealthers, which is hilarious because I called it months ago. Hibernia and it's stupidly OP amnesia still hasn't been addressed... People got bored of trying to smallman against it, they don't have enough friends to make an 8 man so they resort to playing stealthers instead.

Tue 21 May 2019 2:08 PM by phixion

Druth wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 1:55 PM
We have classes that don't even show up in weekly herald, and yet SB's (that are at top) manage to make a 20 page thread about how they are at a disadvantage.
It screams biased crap to me.
Then they started (and yes, that was again mainly SB's) to cry about friars. And looking at Herald, there are 6 SB's before we come to the first friar.

I'm sorry if I don't think we should make changes here based on feelings alone.

And finally, yes I have advocated to nerf assassins, because I think they are bad for the server. But every time I also state that I have no evidence to back it up with.
That is honesty, which is what is lacking when SB's wants access to crush, assassins wants to keep poison-swap, or say they only use vanish to dodge the zerg.

I 100% agree, numbers does NOT give you the answer, but there has to be some sort of correlation between your claims and what the numbers show. If the numbers show the opposite of what people claim, there is a high chance they are filling you with crap.

Edit: And don't pretend me making a SB would change anything, it's a strawman argument. I never claimed that what people wrote is wrong, just that all the evidence points the opposite direction.

Yes, because SBs are the weakest assassin. You seem to be forgetting that playtime = RPs, that has very little relation to SBs consistently being hit way harder by Infs and NS's than a SB can hit for. The primary complaint was no stun off evade for SB and no crush ability. It was all relating to fights vs other stealthers, nothing more, nothing less.

You still don't think RA is broken? Look at Nate Bruners videos and tell me that's all fine. In most of his fights he swings twice and his RA does the rest of the damage, that is absolutely ridiculous to me. The fact that it is a passive and even works through stun makes it even worse.

In regards to Friar vs SB on the Herald, I would love to see /played time taken in to account. I have a strong suspicion that there are a few core SBs who play far longer than any of the Friars on a daily basis. I know this because I used to play a lot of hours each day and would see the same few SBs, very rarely would I see a Friar.

And then there's the fact that SBs get to pick and choose targets where as Friars run around unstealthed looking for a fight. Most smart assassins will simply avoid hitting a Friar because there is no way of beating them if they have Reflex Attack.

Tue 21 May 2019 2:32 PM by Druth

phixion wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 2:08 PM
Yes, because SBs are the weakest assassin. You seem to be forgetting that playtime = RPs, that has very little relation to SBs consistently being hit way harder by Infs and NS's than a SB can hit for. The primary complaint was no stun off evade for SB and no crush ability. It was all relating to fights vs other stealthers, nothing more, nothing less.

Is that a problem if they perform better vs. other classes, in comparison to the other assassins?
I guess you disagree, but my view is that what matters is how well in general a class does, not how well it does in single separate circumstances.

phixion wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 2:08 PM
You still don't think RA is broken? Look at Nate Bruners videos and tell me that's all fine. In most of his fights he swings twice and his RA does the rest of the damage, that is absolutely ridiculous to me. The fact that it is a passive and even works through stun makes it even worse.

It's not broken, that implies that it's not working like it did in NF RA.
Yes I've watched them, and yes it does look like he blows them away. But again, does it matter how well he does vs. a few classes, if he does poorly in general?
And from the vids I see, he always uses purge+vendo most fights, so every 7 mins he kills people.
A solo caster, and some hybrids, would blow him away with no chances for him, but can't test that as I play Mid.

phixion wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 2:08 PM
In regards to Friar vs SB on the Herald, I would love to see /played time taken in to account. I have a strong suspicion that there are a few core SBs who play far longer than any of the Friars on a daily basis. I know this because I used to play a lot of hours each day and would see the same few SBs, very rarely would I see a Friar.

And then there's the fact that SBs get to pick and choose targets where as Friars run around unstealthed looking for a fight. Most smart assassins will simply avoid hitting a Friar because there is no way of beating them if they have Reflex Attack.

And that's what I don't understand. Class has OP/"broken" RA, and yet very few play it?
One thing DaoC history has taught me is that people like playing OP classes, so why is it that despite having this crazy ability few play friars?
I think it's because friars are bad, in general, even with that RA.

I agree, playing time should matter when looking at numbers. Wish we had them.

Tue 21 May 2019 2:49 PM by phixion

Druth wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 2:32 PM
Is that a problem if they perform better vs. other classes, in comparison to the other assassins?
I guess you disagree, but my view is that what matters is how well in general a class does, not how well it does in single separate circumstances.

It is rather disheartening when you hit for 60+ damage less on the mainhand and 40+ damage less on the offhand every swing. Especially when you lose those fights and you're wondering what you did wrong--other than just pick the wrong assassin to roll.

All assassins "do well vs other classes", as long as they pick classes they can kill easily. This is a common misconception amongst people who don't play stealthers, it seems as if we just get all the good stuff and none of the bad, we don't. We have to watch certain classes run by because they are simply too dangerous or it would take far too long to kill them and we would be run over by the nearest zerg. Then we have to pick targets that are alone... a rarity on this server. Eventually you get bored enough to the point where you jump a random caster at the back of a pack, hoping to god you don't get noticed... Then you get rolled by the full group that has just clipped in to view because the clip range is pathetic.

Playing a stealther decreases the chance you will be rolled by a large amount, but once you leave still that chance of being rolled returns 10 fold because you are forced to fight in the most dangerous areas in the game just to find a solo kill.

Druth wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 2:32 PM
It's not broken, that implies that it's not working like it did in NF RA.
Yes I've watched them, and yes it does look like he blows them away. But again, does it matter how well he does vs. a few classes, if he does poorly in general?
And from the vids I see, he always uses purge+vendo most fights, so every 7 mins he kills people.
A solo caster, and some hybrids, would blow him away with no chances for him, but can't test that as I play Mid.

It's broken in terms of, the ability is OP and needs to be fixed. Watch his videos again, watch how often he swings and how often RA is doing the damage. No RA should be that dominant in a fight, especially a passive. If SBs were fighting Zerkers, we would be complaining about Zerkers, we are not complaining about the class per se, more the RA--nerfing it would affect all realms with access to it, not just Friars.

Druth wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 2:32 PM
And that's what I don't understand. Class has OP/"broken" RA, and yet very few play it?
One thing DaoC history has taught me is that people like playing OP classes, so why is it that despite having this crazy ability few play friars?
I think it's because friars are bad, in general, even with that RA.

I agree, playing time should matter when looking at numbers. Wish we had them.

Because Friars don't have stealth. Have you played a solo non-stealth class here? It's complete AIDS. I watch non stealth soloers get rolled all day, most people are not made for that style of play.

Friars can pretty much run between APK and AMG without being attacked by a stealther because it's certain death. How many other classes can do that? And trust me when I say this, there are PLENTY of stealthers camping between APK and AMG every day.

Tue 21 May 2019 3:05 PM by Sektor

phixion wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 2:49 PM
Druth wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 2:32 PM
Is that a problem if they perform better vs. other classes, in comparison to the other assassins?
I guess you disagree, but my view is that what matters is how well in general a class does, not how well it does in single separate circumstances.

It is rather disheartening when you hit for 60+ damage less on the mainhand and 40+ damage less on the offhand every swing. Especially when you lose those fights and you're wondering what you did wrong--other than just pick the wrong assassin to roll.

All assassins "do well vs other classes", as long as they pick classes they can kill easily. This is a common misconception amongst people who don't play stealthers, it seems as if we just get all the good stuff and none of the bad, we don't. We have to watch certain classes run by because they are simply too dangerous or it would take far too long to kill them and we would be run over by the nearest zerg. Then we have to pick targets that are alone... a rarity on this server. Eventually you get bored enough to the point where you jump a random caster at the back of a pack, hoping to god you don't get noticed... Then you get rolled by the full group that has just clipped in to view because the clip range is pathetic.

Playing a stealther decreases the chance you will be rolled by a large amount, but once you leave still that chance of being rolled returns 10 fold because you are forced to fight in the most dangerous areas in the game just to find a solo kill.

Druth wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 2:32 PM
It's not broken, that implies that it's not working like it did in NF RA.
Yes I've watched them, and yes it does look like he blows them away. But again, does it matter how well he does vs. a few classes, if he does poorly in general?
And from the vids I see, he always uses purge+vendo most fights, so every 7 mins he kills people.
A solo caster, and some hybrids, would blow him away with no chances for him, but can't test that as I play Mid.

It's broken in terms of, the ability is OP and needs to be fixed. Watch his videos again, watch how often he swings and how often RA is doing the damage. No RA should be that dominant in a fight, especially a passive. If SBs were fighting Zerkers, we would be complaining about Zerkers, we are not complaining about the class per se, more the RA--nerfing it would affect all realms with access to it, not just Friars.

Druth wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 2:32 PM
And that's what I don't understand. Class has OP/"broken" RA, and yet very few play it?
One thing DaoC history has taught me is that people like playing OP classes, so why is it that despite having this crazy ability few play friars?
I think it's because friars are bad, in general, even with that RA.

I agree, playing time should matter when looking at numbers. Wish we had them.

Because Friars don't have stealth. Have you played a solo non-stealth class here? It's complete AIDS. I watch non stealth soloers get rolled all day, most people are not made for that style of play.

Friars can pretty much run between APK and AMG without being attacked by a stealther because it's certain death. How many other classes can do that? And trust me when I say this, there are PLENTY of stealthers camping between APK and AMG every day.

Oh boo hoo there is a class you can’t faceroll solo.

Tue 21 May 2019 3:12 PM by phixion

Sektor wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 3:05 PM
Oh boo hoo there is a class you can’t faceroll solo.

I'm glad this is all you took from that wall of text.

You sure are "special".

https://herald.playphoenix.online/c/sektor

LUL

Tue 21 May 2019 3:48 PM by Druth

phixion wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 2:49 PM
Because Friars don't have stealth. Have you played a solo non-stealth class here? It's complete AIDS. I watch non stealth soloers get rolled all day, most people are not made for that style of play.

Friars can pretty much run between APK and AMG without being attacked by a stealther because it's certain death. How many other classes can do that? And trust me when I say this, there are PLENTY of stealthers camping between APK and AMG every day.

That is my point really.
SB/NS/Inf has a huge advantage in stealth, so why ask for more?
It doesn't matter if friars have a faceroll ability, even with that they are at a HUGE disadvantage over assassins in terms of kill/death ratio.

If we somehow could figure out that per hour played, SB's perform worse than Inf/NS, then yes I'd agree to buff SB, but probably by doing it indirectly and nerf Inf/NS.

Tue 21 May 2019 3:54 PM by Sektor

phixion wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 3:12 PM
Sektor wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 3:05 PM
Oh boo hoo there is a class you can’t faceroll solo.

I'm glad this is all you took from that wall of text.

You sure are "special".

https://herald.playphoenix.online/c/sektor

LUL

Hey smart guy let me clue you in on something. Sektor was a rr6 warrior. Then I went Hib. Three days ago he was a 5l4 nightshade. So I think you’re the special one 😁.

*edit* I thought you were leaving the game anyway because of charge nerfs? All you do is cry on the forums it’s pretty cringe imo.

Tue 21 May 2019 4:15 PM by phixion

Sektor wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 3:54 PM
Hey smart guy let me clue you in on something. Sektor was a rr6 warrior. Then I went Hib. Three days ago he was a 5l4 nightshade. So I think you’re the special one 😁.

So you've made, at a push 1.5m RPs in your time in Phoenix? Wow.

You flip flopped between realms and classes, unable to stand by your class and you expect anyone to take your opinion seriously?

Sektor wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 3:54 PM
*edit* I thought you were leaving the game anyway because of charge nerfs? All you do is cry on the forums it’s pretty cringe imo.

Again, reading comprehension fails you.

phixion wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 2:02 PM
Not saying I will never log in again, but I haven't played more than 30 minutes since the Charge nerf was brought in.

You spend all your time raging against those with different opinions. Maybe if you actually took a moment to read instead of jumping to conclusions you wouldn't write such stupid replies.

Tue 21 May 2019 4:19 PM by Sektor

phixion wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 4:15 PM
Sektor wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 3:54 PM
Hey smart guy let me clue you in on something. Sektor was a rr6 warrior. Then I went Hib. Three days ago he was a 5l4 nightshade. So I think you’re the special one 😁.

So you've made, at a push 1.5m RPs in your time in Phoenix? Wow.

You flip flopped between realms and classes, unable to stand by your class and you expect anyone to take your opinion seriously?

Sektor wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 3:54 PM
*edit* I thought you were leaving the game anyway because of charge nerfs? All you do is cry on the forums it’s pretty cringe imo.

Again, reading comprehension fails you.

phixion wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 2:02 PM
Not saying I will never log in again, but I haven't played more than 30 minutes since the Charge nerf was brought in.

You spend all your time raging against those with different opinions. Maybe if you actually took a moment to read instead of jumping to conclusions you wouldn't write such stupid replies.

All your posts are TLDR I can sum any of them up really quick. “I’m taking my toys and going home”

For a guy that isn’t “mad” you sure spend a lot of time crying on here 😂.

Tue 21 May 2019 4:30 PM by phixion

Sektor wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 4:19 PM
All your posts are TLDR I can sum any of them up really quick. “I’m taking my toys and going home”

For a guy that isn’t “mad” you sure spend a lot of time crying on here 😂.

And I can say similar about your posts, only you have shit on your nose from all the brown nosing you do.

For someone who has barely made 1.5m RPs, you sure do know a lot about the way this game works.

Tue 21 May 2019 4:32 PM by Sektor

phixion wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 4:30 PM
Sektor wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 4:19 PM
All your posts are TLDR I can sum any of them up really quick. “I’m taking my toys and going home”

For a guy that isn’t “mad” you sure spend a lot of time crying on here 😂.

And I can say similar about your posts, only you have shit on your nose from all the brown nosing you do.

For someone who has barely made 1.5m RPs, you sure do know a lot about the way this game works.

Rut roh big boy using swear words now. Must have struck a nerve 😂😂😂.

Tue 21 May 2019 4:43 PM by phixion

Sektor wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 4:32 PM
Rut roh big boy using swear words now. Must have struck a nerve 😂😂😂.

And this is what you are left with when the server pushes casual play. You get people like this with barely 1.5m RPs dictating the agenda.

Have fun I guess. Once the lemmings get bored of zerging the pop will drop even more and the good players will be long gone.

Tue 21 May 2019 4:58 PM by PingGuy

The problem isn't Phoenix, it's the players. Too many people came here with red lines already drawn. Too many people that are one nerf away from leaving. Many people feel that their fun hinges on the last few percent of the capability of their character.

This server is overpopulated with assassins, there is no arguing that. To be fair though, a lot of those assassins would be playing visible solos or archers if things were different here. I can sympathize with that, and even with people who truly enjoy playing assassins, as they didn't ask to have their preferred class as the dumping ground for those who abandoned the other solo options. Watching them bitch about the charge nerfs is laughable though, as it won't stop them from destroying any of my solo toons in mere seconds, just as they did before. And that's what I'm talking about here, it was a nerf, but not enough of one to stop them from destroying unsuspecting targets in a short time frame as they did before. It doesn't seem like enough of a nerf to go from fun to not fun. But if they were already on the fence, then maybe it was.

I've been unhappy with a few changes here on Phoenix so far--stuff that affected me directly and negatively--but I didn't quit over them. I also didn't tell anybody to pound sand when they were unhappy. I want as many people here as possible, even if they play assassins and will likely make my night of gaming more frustrating. If this server can maintain a good system of flowing honey for the newbies and casuals, while giving the hardcores reasonable challenges and rewards, then it could keep rolling for a good long time. But people need to roll with the changes for that to happen, and I'm not sure that's possible with a broad enough set of players.

Yes, we should all play to have fun, and not play if we aren't having fun. But I think a lot of people are a little too obsessed with perfection as part of their formula for fun. Or just neurotic about how other people are having fun wrong in their eyes. Just play, find some fun, it's still out there to be had.

Tue 21 May 2019 4:59 PM by Sektor

phixion wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 4:43 PM
Sektor wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 4:32 PM
Rut roh big boy using swear words now. Must have struck a nerve 😂😂😂.

And this is what you are left with when the server pushes casual play. You get people like this with barely 1.5m RPs dictating the agenda.

Have fun I guess. Once the lemmings get bored of zerging the pop will drop even more and the good players will be long gone.

Don’t let the door hit you on the way out champ. 😁

Tue 21 May 2019 5:00 PM by PingGuy

phixion wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 4:43 PM
And this is what you are left with when the server pushes casual play.

And what you get when you push hardcore play is Uthgard. We need a balance, not one or the other.

Tue 21 May 2019 5:30 PM by Loki

Druth wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 1:55 PM
Loki wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 1:19 PM
Dude, you have already shown your true colors. You "dont hate assassins" , but think "they're pathetic" . Now you keep browsing these forums looking for details to validate your bigoted narrow-minded view, with a bunch of herald statistics in your right hand and a fake desire to save the server in your left hand. Yes yes, Druth who knows everything just by looking at numbers, will save the server. You've done enough already tbh.

When it comes to stealthers, you have no credibility because of your own admitted bias. Just stop talking about them, you are embarrassing yourself with your lack of knowledge when it comes to Phoenix custom changes. Make a SB, show us how easy it can be. Then we can talk.

The nerve you have to talk about dishonesty ... astonishing .

Duel with pistols at dawn?

Calm the freak down... I posted Herald stats because assassins, and especially SB's were crying floods of tears about how weak they were/are, and yet the Herald painted the complete opposite picture. I suggested people try to either show me different figures, or explain why they thought the numbers were that different from what they said. I got a half-assed answer that involves a few dedicated people who play SB. I then excluded top 50, and the results still showed SB dominance.
Finally I got silence.
We have classes that don't even show up in weekly herald, and yet SB's (that are at top) manage to make a 20 page thread about how they are at a disadvantage.
It screams biased crap to me.
Then they started (and yes, that was again mainly SB's) to cry about friars. And looking at Herald, there are 6 SB's before we come to the first friar.

I'm sorry if I don't think we should make changes here based on feelings alone.

And finally, yes I have advocated to nerf assassins, because I think they are bad for the server. But every time I also state that I have no evidence to back it up with.
That is honesty, which is what is lacking when SB's wants access to crush, assassins wants to keep poison-swap, or say they only use vanish to dodge the zerg.

I 100% agree, numbers does NOT give you the answer, but there has to be some sort of correlation between your claims and what the numbers show. If the numbers show the opposite of what people claim, there is a high chance they are filling you with crap.

Edit: And don't pretend me making a SB would change anything, it's a strawman argument. I never claimed that what people wrote is wrong, just that all the evidence points the opposite direction.

You have a big problem understanding equity and equality. Also , a strawman ? Your every argument begins with strawman arguments, when you're talking about "SBs are crying" as if the class you play makes your opinion invalid. Again, don't talk to me about "I'm sorry that you feel this way" , you really aren't intelligent enough and bring nothing to the table to be condescending. The sad part is devs look to people like you for validation, when you have no clue what you're talking about.

Just ...be ...quiet...

Tue 21 May 2019 5:53 PM by phixion

Sektor wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 4:59 PM
Don’t let the door hit you on the way out champ. 😁

Don't worry, I may be back at some point, I will keep my eye out for you.

Tue 21 May 2019 5:54 PM by BaldEagle

It is really simple. OF is crap and the novelty has worn off.

They also made RPs too easy to come by, eliminating the grind which leads to server longevity.

There is no relic desire or realm pride, mostly due to OF.

In reality, by going OF, they eliminated all those who prefer NF (majority). Had they just gone NF to begin with, it would be more attractive long-term for those on Live, and those who prefer OF wouldn't have stayed at Uthgard anyway (or at least a small fraction of them).

Between how easy it is to get RPs and OF, they really screwed the pooch.

Also, not sure why so many skins were removed that they had in Beta.

Tue 21 May 2019 6:36 PM by PingGuy

BaldEagle wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 5:54 PM
It is really simple. OF is crap and the novelty has worn off.

They also made RPs too easy to come by, eliminating the grind which leads to server longevity.

There is no relic desire or realm pride, mostly due to OF.

In reality, by going OF, they eliminated all those who prefer NF (majority). Had they just gone NF to begin with, it would be more attractive long-term for those on Live, and those who prefer OF wouldn't have stayed at Uthgard anyway (or at least a small fraction of them).

Between how easy it is to get RPs and OF, they really screwed the pooch.

Also, not sure why so many skins were removed that they had in Beta.

The grind chases some people away, just as much as boredom chases others away. If they didn't have the task system and easy RP's here, I'd have been gone a few weeks after release. There is no magic formula to make ALL players happy, the heated arguments on these forums are plenty of evidence of that. Phoenix needs every kind of player it can convince to stay at the same time. Some play-styles will be diametrically opposed and attrition will happen because of it, but this server can support many different play-styles. It's just a difficult balancing act and requires more good faith than many players seem willing to give to the devs.

Everybody seems to "know" the answer, but really they only know the answer for themselves. There is some commonality of concerns among different play-styles, and that is where they should focus. Do we need NF? Who knows. Do we need better keep fight dynamics? Yes, that is agreed upon across the board. Hopefully progress can be made in directions like that.

Tue 21 May 2019 9:02 PM by Druth

Loki wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 5:30 PM
You have a big problem understanding equity and equality. Also , a strawman ? Your every argument begins with strawman arguments, when you're talking about "SBs are crying" as if the class you play makes your opinion invalid. Again, don't talk to me about "I'm sorry that you feel this way" , you really aren't intelligent enough and bring nothing to the table to be condescending. The sad part is devs look to people like you for validation, when you have no clue what you're talking about.

Just ...be ...quiet...

You sure you mean equity...?
Look up strawman argument.

You don't understand, or don't use either in the correct context.

Tue 21 May 2019 9:56 PM by t4coops

patch change -

fat stat loss, basically stripping people of millions and millions of rps/ra points
+
fat nerf to farming, now takes 3h to do what u did in 1h
+
lowbies can no longer go xp in the rvr zone experiencing the game and having fun with everyone else
+
ddos attacks, prob because of the above
=
phoenix population takes a nose dive like it was a 747 max jet

your supposed to make the game more fun for people, don't ever implement something that might ruin someones experience, and yall kinda just shit on everyones, there is a lot more intelligent ways to get what you think needs to be done, without depressing/disappointing your audience, which is the only thing that matters... you can either run a game or you can intelligently run a game, live decided to do the first.. and we see how that went

Wed 22 May 2019 1:01 AM by Sindralor

Im just burned out on Emain, and I dont feel like playing my SM solo with 266 dex and no speed of the hunt ( no acuity/dex charge )
Casters need a minimum amount of dex to properly function imo, and solo/duo its too few while in group you can get basically max value from a buffbot
( Clerics / Druids / Shamans are still buffbots, just not afk )
Id love to play Bard/Ment, but again.. Emain.. If theres no plans of doing NF then maybe there should be an -actual- Teleporter to each Realms homesoil (Had/Odins/Emain)
I bet the solos and smallman would atleast port to Odins and Hadrians instead of going 'Ah fuck it, just port to Emain and hope to surf'
The bulk of the population won't go to other zones so maybe we can make the other 2 areas more appealing

(also nice suggestion to remove/nerf stealth, what are you guys gonna complain about if theres no Sbs/Infs/Ns left to complain about? Vanish would be gone too)

If there was speed of the hunt I'd play other stuff and not just my Sb tho

Wed 22 May 2019 3:11 AM by AngelRose

I quit because archers are shit on this server.

Population still seems decent though. Better then ywain.

Wed 22 May 2019 5:29 AM by genchaos9

t4coops wrote: ↑
Mon 20 May 2019 12:44 PM
not sure the problem seems to all happen at once....
ddos attacks prob had a bit to do with it, seems to be fine now tho and not much better....
perhaps buff changes ? I can see how someone who plan their ra's out and gets excited to log on and grind out some rps to get the ra' they want to (think atleast lol) they gonna rip, then all of a sudden now if they put all them hours and hours and hours into be better to beat the people they have trouble with....instead all of the work wil be just to get back to where they were hella long time ago.... ooof

regardless there is a problem and needs to be priority #1 imo

perhaps lot of the random not so good players cant find groups get bored and stop play ? I have a hard time myself why I just solo or duo with my friend,.. daoc needs to cator to the random not so good players because that is mostly what plays

need to bring siege warfare back into the game, so the everyday randoms got things to do

need allow ports to keeps in your own realm and make it very clear when 1 is under attack, so people who cant get grps or w/e can go defend keeps, and port there and meet other people there and group up and get to meet friends, or atleast be in the safety of a keep defending and win or lose atleast be out there fighting with something to do

or perhaps a randomly rotating keep in each realm that gives a fat bonus for taking, so people atleast know which keep to make their way out to to get in, but still keep them actively moving thro zones to not kill the roaming action down south (like ghostfang keep on live)

least im sad to see the population drasticly drop and i hope it doesn't continue that way, i think the bored people with not much to do and cant get groups could keep them selves busy and entertained if they could all port around to keeps under attack and go out and play without relying on others if necessary

not to mention i always hear people qq bout how boring it is to join the BG, no one is in the keeps to defend much, just pveing the doors basicly
(im almost rr7 and haven't been to 1 keep take yet, i never know when they under attack and if i find out doubt ill make it in time or w/e ect so)

i know phoenix's are known for rising out of the ashes but sometimes everyone can use a helping hand ^^

thanks and cheers

Great ideas. Devs?

Wed 22 May 2019 6:57 AM by Sepplord

genchaos9 wrote: ↑
Wed 22 May 2019 5:29 AM
t4coops wrote: ↑
Mon 20 May 2019 12:44 PM
not sure the problem seems to all happen at once....
ddos attacks prob had a bit to do with it, seems to be fine now tho and not much better....
perhaps buff changes ? I can see how someone who plan their ra's out and gets excited to log on and grind out some rps to get the ra' they want to (think atleast lol) they gonna rip, then all of a sudden now if they put all them hours and hours and hours into be better to beat the people they have trouble with....instead all of the work wil be just to get back to where they were hella long time ago.... ooof

regardless there is a problem and needs to be priority #1 imo

perhaps lot of the random not so good players cant find groups get bored and stop play ? I have a hard time myself why I just solo or duo with my friend,.. daoc needs to cator to the random not so good players because that is mostly what plays

need to bring siege warfare back into the game, so the everyday randoms got things to do

need allow ports to keeps in your own realm and make it very clear when 1 is under attack, so people who cant get grps or w/e can go defend keeps, and port there and meet other people there and group up and get to meet friends, or atleast be in the safety of a keep defending and win or lose atleast be out there fighting with something to do

or perhaps a randomly rotating keep in each realm that gives a fat bonus for taking, so people atleast know which keep to make their way out to to get in, but still keep them actively moving thro zones to not kill the roaming action down south (like ghostfang keep on live)

least im sad to see the population drasticly drop and i hope it doesn't continue that way, i think the bored people with not much to do and cant get groups could keep them selves busy and entertained if they could all port around to keeps under attack and go out and play without relying on others if necessary

not to mention i always hear people qq bout how boring it is to join the BG, no one is in the keeps to defend much, just pveing the doors basicly
(im almost rr7 and haven't been to 1 keep take yet, i never know when they under attack and if i find out doubt ill make it in time or w/e ect so)

i know phoenix's are known for rising out of the ashes but sometimes everyone can use a helping hand ^^

thanks and cheers

Great ideas. Devs?

to be fair, the buffchanges were a huge boon for the casual, not so good players that don't find groups. And look what feedback it is getting. A complete clusterfuck painting everything in a bad light and butthurt individuals launching DDOS attacks

They are already doing a lot for the casual random players (which is good), you just don't see them celebrating on the forums, because that's not what the average, not so good player does.
But it has always been like that, if you gauge a games quality by how their forums sound like, then every game is a waste of time according to the people that (ironically) spend 10hours/day ingame ^^

EDIT: moved one comma, so flopsy doesn't think i am having a stroke anymore

Wed 22 May 2019 7:08 AM by t4coops

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Wed 22 May 2019 6:57 AM
to be fair, the buffchanges were a huge boon for the casual, not so good, players that don't find groups. And look what feedback it is getting. A complete clusterfuck painting everything in a bad light and butthurt individuals launching DDOS attacks
They are already doing a lot for the casual random players (which is good), you just don't see them celebrating on the forums, because that's not what the average not so good player does.
But it has always been like that, if you gauge a games quality by how their forums sound like, then every game is a waste of time according to the people that (ironically) spend 10hours/day ingame ^^

sing happy birthday for us so we know your not having a stroke please

Wed 22 May 2019 7:09 AM by Druth

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Wed 22 May 2019 6:57 AM
to be fair, the buffchanges were a huge boon for the casual, not so good, players that don't find groups. And look what feedback it is getting. A complete clusterfuck painting everything in a bad light and butthurt individuals launching DDOS attacks

Not saying it is that group, but 1 month ago a full guild, and many other individuals got banned for radar/3rd party use.
The attacks might have been there before, but they sure picked up after that.

Wed 22 May 2019 7:21 AM by Trip

People will do everything to get sex. Once they have had it having sex is not so important anymore.

Once people achieve 50 or a certain RR where progress is not visible or rewarding anymore the incentives dies of. You see this in al games. Reset te server and population explodes again because people have a goal. I have no solution but it is normal and expected behavior and certainly not a direct cause of some changes or ddos attacks.

Wed 22 May 2019 7:21 AM by Sepplord

t4coops wrote: ↑
Wed 22 May 2019 7:08 AM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Wed 22 May 2019 6:57 AM
to be fair, the buffchanges were a huge boon for the casual, not so good players that don't find groups. And look what feedback it is getting. A complete clusterfuck painting everything in a bad light and butthurt individuals launching DDOS attacks
They are already doing a lot for the casual random players (which is good), you just don't see them celebrating on the forums, because that's not what the average, not so good player does.
But it has always been like that, if you gauge a games quality by how their forums sound like, then every game is a waste of time according to the people that (ironically) spend 10hours/day ingame ^^

sing happy birthday for us so we know your not having a stroke please

which part are you having trouble reading? I moved a comma for you, if that triggered your OCD it wasn't intentional

"not so good players" is a term the person i quoted used, and i usually try and stick to the language a person is already using when i reply to them

Wed 22 May 2019 7:41 AM by t4coops

"buff change was a huge boost for the casual, not so good players who cant find groups"

you mean the only people that were effected by it ? lol

its ok if your not the sharpest crayon in the special kids classroom crayon box, we like you anyway, but please try to stay out of convo's if your just going to troll

Wed 22 May 2019 10:00 AM by Sepplord

t4coops wrote: ↑
Wed 22 May 2019 7:41 AM
"buff change was a huge boost for the casual, not so good players who cant find groups"

you mean the only people that were effected by it ? lol

what the actual ...???

Only "casual, not so good players were effected by the change?
Uhh, i am unsure if you are saying phixion (as example among many) is a casual, not so good player or if you are saying he was unaffected by the change?

its ok if your not the sharpest crayon in the special kids classroom crayon box, we like you anyway, but please try to stay out of convo's if your just going to troll

Do you really believe someone reads that and ascribes intellingence or superiority to your person?

Wed 22 May 2019 10:35 AM by bigne88

Just entirely remove stealth classes. They are useless and all the self-buff changes (witch are ok) incentivate bad players to play one. (I know its a stupid and impossibile request, but still)

A teleport to the keep in odin's, hadrians and emain, if you own it and is not under attack.

Enlight on map sieged keeps.

Minor celerity to wardens and paladins .

Put back the old "drop sistem". Less farm more pvp.

Wed 22 May 2019 11:24 AM by Druth

bigne88 wrote: ↑
Wed 22 May 2019 10:35 AM
Just entirely remove stealth classes. They are useless and all the self-buff changes (witch are ok) incentivate bad players to play one. (I know its a stupid and impossibile request, but still)

A teleport to the keep in odin's, hadrians and emain, if you own it and is not under attack.

Enlight on map sieged keeps.

Minor celerity to wardens and paladins .

Put back the old "drop sistem". Less farm more pvp.

Major class changes like that should have been done from launch, and wont ever be done anyway.
You have a large group that likes stealthers, and just because (like me) that you dislike them, does not mean you necessarily are correct

My problem is that people migrate to them because they get zerged on visible, but all they do is increase the problem.
We need more and better stealth detection, and especially scale stealth detection when many stealthers are in close proximity.
Reward solo stealthers, punish stealth zergs.

Teleport should be enabled if you own any of the 4 central keeps in a realm.
That would also move action away from Emain, and into Jamt, Breifine and Pennine (lol, unlikely), and make it impossible to control choke points like MG's, but still make it easy to find action.

Send spam when a keep is under attack, maybe with a small delay.

No celerity, I am Midgard, biased and like our toys.
Serious though I am reserved about celerity to wardens, paladins are fine, but Hib groups are pretty strong.... I think... but really no clue right now, could do it as a testing period

Don't mind the low droprate, but I have all the plats I need anyway...

Wed 22 May 2019 11:35 AM by Kadorna

ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 1:14 AM
The ratio of stealthers to visibles is too high in stealther's favor for the health of the game.

Why is this a problem??
1-Build your grp and join 1 stealther class with high stealth skill to uncover enemy stealthers
2-Go frontier and farm stealthers.

Wed 22 May 2019 11:38 AM by Sepplord

Kadorna wrote: ↑
Wed 22 May 2019 11:35 AM
ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 1:14 AM
The ratio of stealthers to visibles is too high in stealther's favor for the health of the game.

Why is this a problem??
1-Build your grp and join 1 stealther class with high stealth skill to uncover enemy stealthers
2-Go frontier and farm stealthers.

doesn't really work like that though, since stealth detection seems a little bit slow or too much impacted by speed. Even with the stealthlore pot i don't always find other assassins even knowing approximately where they are.

Wed 22 May 2019 11:53 AM by Kadorna

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Wed 22 May 2019 11:38 AM
Kadorna wrote: ↑
Wed 22 May 2019 11:35 AM
ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 1:14 AM
The ratio of stealthers to visibles is too high in stealther's favor for the health of the game.

Why is this a problem??
1-Build your grp and join 1 stealther class with high stealth skill to uncover enemy stealthers
2-Go frontier and farm stealthers.

doesn't really work like that though, since stealth detection seems a little bit slow or too much impacted by speed. Even with the stealthlore pot i don't always find other assassins even knowing approximately where they are.

Run with the grp and use stealh when u arrive to "hot zones" while grp keep running around near you. Add a reaver/thane/any pbaoe or gtaoe class to help with the search....there are options to farm stealthers. If his population is really too high as ppl say cant be too hard to find them...

Wed 22 May 2019 12:16 PM by Loki

Druth wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 9:02 PM
Loki wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 5:30 PM
You have a big problem understanding equity and equality. Also , a strawman ? Your every argument begins with strawman arguments, when you're talking about "SBs are crying" as if the class you play makes your opinion invalid. Again, don't talk to me about "I'm sorry that you feel this way" , you really aren't intelligent enough and bring nothing to the table to be condescending. The sad part is devs look to people like you for validation, when you have no clue what you're talking about.

Just ...be ...quiet...

You sure you mean equity...?
Look up strawman argument.

You don't understand, or don't use either in the correct context.

Yes, equity. You think because "muh numbaz" aren't all flat out the same over all stealther classes, no one is allowed to point any obvious differences that a blind child would agree on and only changes that help even the field are allowed. You value outcome over fairness or opportunity. Ofcourse you're gonna back pedal and claim you never said that, but even though you "100% agree, numbers does NOT give you the answer" it's also the only argument you have. You certainly don't have experience and you hide behind straw men argument accusations when someone mentions it, like a hypocrite . You have no idea how stealth works on Phoenix but you are vocal about in threads about Vanish. You yell about logical fallacies while you throw ad hominems left and right, with your snarky tone and your condescending passive aggressive bullshit.

You can't figure out why friars, even when considered on top of the soloer food chain, don't rule the charts ? Because no one would fight one, jesus why do I have to explain that. Yes, assassins have the advantage of picking their targets.

And recently again, you talk about how biased you are with mids having celerity even though you play this game from the housing area.

I mean I get it, you're bored at work and no one takes you seriously, so you're confrontational on the forums. But troll on someone else's expense, not mine.

I'd add a lot more examples from your multi-faced arguments, but frankly you make me barf.

Wed 22 May 2019 12:39 PM by Druth

Loki wrote: ↑
Wed 22 May 2019 12:16 PM
Yes, equity. You think because "muh numbaz" aren't all flat out the same over all stealther classes, no one is allowed to point any obvious differences that a blind child would agree on and only changes that help even the field are allowed.

Oh... so when you say "equity" as in the term used in economy, vs. equality, what you mean is that numbers wont translate to balance?
And I agree, but please don't pretend that SB's are doing worse than hunters for example, or thanes.
The top position might not translate to King, but it certainly doesn't mean beggar either.

Loki wrote: ↑
Wed 22 May 2019 12:16 PM
You value outcome over fairness or opportunity. Ofcourse you're gonna back pedal and claim you never said that, but even though you "100% agree, numbers does NOT give you the answer" it's also the only argument you have. You certainly don't have experience and you hide behind straw men argument accusations when someone mentions it, like a hypocrite . You have no idea how stealth works on Phoenix but you are vocal about in threads about Vanish. You yell about logical fallacies while you throw ad hominems left and right, with your snarky tone and your condescending passive aggressive bullshit.

Yes, I do regard outcome over biased opinions. You can call things fair, balanced, and whatever adverb you want to attach to your opinion, it doesn't magically transform into fair by saying the word.

How messed up is to to suggest only people who play a class knows if it needs a buff???
Do we let the classes decide what buffs they need? What kind of system blindly accepts the conclusions made by the people benefiting from the change???
Especially when the statistical data doesn't support their claims?
I play RM, and I want to move cold debuff to darkness line. And anyone who doesn't play RM can't tell me it's a bad idea.

And go play a friar, and until you RvR on one, you don't get a voice in nerfing them.

And yes, I am condescending, because your language shows a person that has run out of arguments and are slowly moving towards throwing abuse instead.
Classic, if I'm not smart enough, I can try bullying instead.

Loki wrote: ↑
Wed 22 May 2019 12:16 PM
You can't figure out why friars, even when considered on top of the soloer food chain, don't rule the charts ? Because no one would fight one, jesus why do I have to explain that. Yes, assassins have the advantage of picking their targets.

lol, what the F is the problem then?
You want to hunt the Abominable Snowman even though you know it doesn't exist.

Loki wrote: ↑
Wed 22 May 2019 12:16 PM
And recently again, you talk about how biased you are with mids having celerity even though you play this game from the housing area.

Swoooosh sarcasm drove right past you.
Even wrote that I was joking...

You don't know my main, only my crafter.
I stopped playing BD when I realized how OP it was.

Loki wrote: ↑
Wed 22 May 2019 12:16 PM
I mean I get it, you're bored at work and no one takes you seriously, so you're confrontational on the forums. But troll on someone else's expense, not mine.

I'd add a lot more examples from your multi-faced arguments, but frankly you make me barf.

The bad man is hurting my feelings...

How often do you find it works to throw verbal abuse when arguing on the internet?
Does it ever work out for you?

Wed 22 May 2019 1:00 PM by phixion

Fix hib amnesia and you might see more visibles, just an idea.

Wed 22 May 2019 1:05 PM by Druth

Paladin and warden celerity, and change bard insta amnesia into castable, seems like a good idea.

Wed 22 May 2019 7:12 PM by t4coops

where are you guys having trouble with stealth zergs ?

I have 300 solo kills on my animist in the last 1-2 months, and ive maybe been jumped by a grp of stealthers 2-3x ?

usualy always 1 or 2 but I just go to odins or hadrians, but as far as phoenix goes I haven't seen much for stealth zergs, atlesast nothing compared to the atrocities they commit on live

Wed 22 May 2019 8:17 PM by broalition

t4coops wrote: ↑
Wed 22 May 2019 7:12 PM
where are you guys having trouble with stealth zergs ?

I have 300 solo kills on my animist in the last 1-2 months, and ive maybe been jumped by a grp of stealthers 2-3x ?

usualy always 1 or 2 but I just go to odins or hadrians, but as far as phoenix goes I haven't seen much for stealth zergs, atlesast nothing compared to the atrocities they commit on live

avoiding emain, is just like avoiding EV.

grats on your 300 solo kills, i bet my level 23 shaman was one of them - pro tier solo'r right there.

Wed 22 May 2019 8:31 PM by t4coops

broalition wrote: ↑
Wed 22 May 2019 8:17 PM
avoiding emain, is just like avoiding EV.

grats on your 300 solo kills, i bet my level 23 shaman was one of them - pro tier solo'r right there.

i have no speed, you run out dc or dl get in a fight and its a 10 min run to get pa'd or zerged by a fg you cant run away from, I just go where I can port to and get quick action

graycons don't count for solo kills, and if you don't want to die then don't go to the rvr zone, you must be new or dumb, either way its ok you can still be our frand

Thu 23 May 2019 1:44 PM by kej

Druth wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 9:02 PM
Loki wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 5:30 PM
You have a big problem understanding equity and equality. Also , a strawman ? Your every argument begins with strawman arguments, when you're talking about "SBs are crying" as if the class you play makes your opinion invalid. Again, don't talk to me about "I'm sorry that you feel this way" , you really aren't intelligent enough and bring nothing to the table to be condescending. The sad part is devs look to people like you for validation, when you have no clue what you're talking about.

Just ...be ...quiet...

You sure you mean equity...?
Look up strawman argument.

You don't understand, or don't use either in the correct context.

Exactly

People like to attempt to sounds intelligent by pulling out the "strawman" fallacy but they use it for every instance.

"as if the class you play makes your opinion invalid" makes this an Appeal to False Authority in the realm of logical fallacies.

Use it right or not at all.

You can make a point without attempting to belittle your "opponent" by shoving jargon, that you don't even understand, down their throats.

Thu 23 May 2019 10:53 PM by Vkejai

Aint played in a few weeks, checked in today and amazed how many less people were on, maybe its a one off though. One thing to note , I think this dive all started when they added the level 35 + for rvr tasks and the BGs .

Thu 23 May 2019 11:07 PM by Bumbles

Vkejai wrote: ↑
Thu 23 May 2019 10:53 PM
Aint played in a few weeks, checked in today and amazed how many less people were on, maybe its a one off though. One thing to note , I think this dive all started when they added the level 35 + for rvr tasks and the BGs .

Yeah because it made lvling shitty again. Now they keep nerfing things and don't even give RA/SKill repsec to people effected by the changes. At least Live would give respecs when they made changes. These GMs are just sadistic and it's causing people to move on. Pretty soon it will be Uthgard all over again. DAoC sadly will never be what we all remember.

Fri 24 May 2019 2:21 AM by t4coops

Bumbles wrote: ↑
Thu 23 May 2019 11:07 PM
these GMs are just sadistic and it's causing people to move on. Pretty soon it will be Uthgard all over again.

it is absolutely atrocious, and phoenix's #1 problem, I thought I finaly got away from crooked_carol but seems the same behavior here, ego is put before the game, is very sad

Fri 24 May 2019 2:49 AM by t4coops

random never was good at daoc trash gets power and abuses it to feel special, 1 of online gamings biggest down falls, and it hit daoc hard, apparently very hard..

Fri 24 May 2019 5:03 AM by Raunz

If you cater to casuals you end up with a live server aka 2 zergs running in circles around each other and a dead server. How to fix issues? Listen to people that understand the game and the mindset of people playing instead of people in with power.

Fri 24 May 2019 5:20 AM by t4coops

Raunz wrote: ↑
Fri 24 May 2019 5:03 AM
If you cater to casuals you end up with a live server aka 2 zergs running in circles around each other and a dead server. How to fix issues? Listen to people that understand the game and the mindset of people playing instead of people in with power.

you don't take advice from the everyday random player but you make sure they have something always to go do, and spend your effort to pelase them, because they go zerg, and zergs create fallout for all types of game play

when that dies everything else dies, you have to fuel the randoms,, because randoms are what don't go out and make stuff happen on their own, therefore they stop log in when therei snt something for them to go do, everyone else logs on and does their own thing and doesn't rely on shit so them not logging back in would only be from action lacking

I solo on a ani and it can be frusterating enough and I can atleast max shrooms sometimes to easily gank people, but other people prob got it hella lame and don't attempt to solo, and try to get a groupi nstead..and don't get any, so they go join the zerg/bg, well if there is no zerg/bg then they log off, and they come back next time and it happens again and eventual y they stop trying and go play a dif game, gotta keep the keep siege / zerg warfare aspect going strong so everyone always has something they can go do and be/feel productive, or atleast simply just play atleast and have fun

why imo they should put an emphasis on keeps and make it easier for people to go defend or w/e so if they cant get a group they can still go have fun and enjoy their gaming experience as well... not just sit in town with no bg going spaming lfg for 1h and logging off because they couldn't get 1

Fri 24 May 2019 5:25 AM by Druth

Raunz wrote: ↑
Fri 24 May 2019 5:03 AM
If you cater to casuals you end up with a live server aka 2 zergs running in circles around each other and a dead server. How to fix issues? Listen to people that understand the game and the mindset of people playing instead of people in with power.

Problem is that you have 6 different ways to play the game, 3 different realms, and 39 different classes, all in a 18 year old game.
Makes it quite hard to balance it and keep people interested, because most people have tried everything the game has to offer before even coming here.

Every change people want seems to be self-serving.
Either to their class or playstyle.
It's the way of a PvP focused game.

Fri 24 May 2019 5:30 AM by t4coops

that was live's problem, they made knights and took advice from VERY bad players who don't understand or have ever seen or experienced high level play, and the unbalance became silly'r then a circus

ever heard of some guy named tald ? LOL rip daoc live

you make sure your focus is on keeping them online and fueling their playstyle, but you don't take advice from them lol ;p

Fri 24 May 2019 5:35 AM by t4coops

anyways i came late to phoenix and enjoy and would like to play for a long time, so hoping everyone doesn't fade away soon as i come ;\

i hope everyone who thinks making siege fights popin so the people who prob have the most trouble enjoying the game always have something to do, post what would be a better idea to implement, because idc what happens, just that the fire keep burning

Fri 24 May 2019 6:12 AM by Inkwell84

I think the issue is we need big keep fights that are actually defended. This requires side doors etc.

When zergs collect at a central location (keep fight), now stealthers/solos have a destination to go to try and pick off enemies (archers and casters on walls, assassins climbing up to take them out, defending assassins defending the top of walls or roaming the base of the keep to clip off stragglers).

There is no incentive for this play style right now.

Secondly, each realm needs a port to just outside the border zone. Hib needs port to brefeine , alb to pennine, mid to upland. This will incentivize more solo/roaming outside of Emain but also take pressure off hib’s return to Emain.

Ports need to be inside a keep. Starting with closest to border zone. When portal keeps outer doors go below 50% and the keep remains under attack, port shifts to next keep, in tiered priority as follows:

Hib port starts in Crim. Crim goes down it shifts to bolg. Bolg goes down it shifts to behn. Behn goes down it shifts to nged. This also emphasizes targeted areas for keep fights to focus on and for stealthers to prowl.

https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=9128&p=66566

Fri 24 May 2019 6:16 AM by Lollie

only problem with ports in frontiers, unless it's heavily guarded by npcs it will be camped to death by stealthers.

Fri 24 May 2019 6:20 AM by Inkwell84

Lollie wrote: ↑
Fri 24 May 2019 6:16 AM
only problem with ports in frontiers, unless it's heavily guarded by npcs it will be camped to death by stealthers.

Ports need to be inside a keep. Starting with closest to border zone. When portal keeps outer doors go below 50% and the keep remains under attack, port shifts to next keep, in tiered priority as follows:

Hib port starts in Crim. Crim goes down it shifts to bolg. Bolg goes down it shifts to behn. Behn goes down it shifts to nged. This also emphasizes targeted areas for keep fights to focus on and for stealthers to prowl.

https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=9128&p=66566

Fri 24 May 2019 8:49 AM by Sepplord

t4coops wrote: ↑
Fri 24 May 2019 2:21 AM
Bumbles wrote: ↑
Thu 23 May 2019 11:07 PM
these GMs are just sadistic and it's causing people to move on. Pretty soon it will be Uthgard all over again.

it is absolutely atrocious, and phoenix's #1 problem, I thought I finaly got away from crooked_carol but seems the same behavior here, ego is put before the game, is very sad

If you two were right, you would have both been banned for disrespect long ago...

Entitlement is very strong in your comments

Fri 24 May 2019 1:50 PM by Bumbles

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Fri 24 May 2019 8:49 AM
t4coops wrote: ↑
Fri 24 May 2019 2:21 AM
Bumbles wrote: ↑
Thu 23 May 2019 11:07 PM
these GMs are just sadistic and it's causing people to move on. Pretty soon it will be Uthgard all over again.

it is absolutely atrocious, and phoenix's #1 problem, I thought I finaly got away from crooked_carol but seems the same behavior here, ego is put before the game, is very sad

If you two were right, you would have both been banned for disrespect long ago...

Entitlement is very strong in your comments

Have you read almost every post you have made on these boards? You are the typical board nerd. I bet you still think elderly deserve respect simply because they are old? Even if they are racist assholes? Nope, sorry. Respect is earned by actions. But you keep flying the brown flag and be the champion the GMs don’t need nor want to fight for them. Nerd.

Fri 24 May 2019 2:04 PM by Sepplord

Bumbles wrote: ↑
Fri 24 May 2019 1:50 PM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Fri 24 May 2019 8:49 AM
If you two were right, you would have both been banned for disrespect long ago...

Entitlement is very strong in your comments

Have you read almost every post you have made on these boards? You are the typical board nerd. I bet you still think elderly deserve respect simply because they are old? Even if they are racist assholes? Nope, sorry. Respect is earned by actions. But you keep flying the brown flag and be the champion the GMs don’t need nor want to fight for them. Nerd.

That's a wierd question...not only have i read them...i wrote them too

how would one work without the other. The question is HAVE YOU? Because i somehow doubt you have. And i don't blame you for not doing it...it's a lot and there is no reason to, well...unless you want to make broad accusations and meaningless flames. (there some irony in you calling me a forum nerd there

). There are countless posts where i criticise them, but you won't find one where i make demands or threaten them or anything else that is akin to throwing a childish tantrum.

I think everyone deserves respect until they prove that they don't,
An elder person spouting racist bullshit doesn't deserve respect (but you can still respect individual actions of people you do not respect overall).
What did the devs do to you that you believe they don't deserve your respect anymore? Change the balance on a gameserver they created? Even if that was something to lose respect over (it isn't) are you comparing that to being a racist POS?

You are making it really easy for a typical board nerd (which i am, not denying it, i just disagree with your negative tone towards that

) like me to dismiss the stuff you say

Fri 24 May 2019 2:50 PM by Bumbles

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Fri 24 May 2019 2:04 PM
Bumbles wrote: ↑
Fri 24 May 2019 1:50 PM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Fri 24 May 2019 8:49 AM
If you two were right, you would have both been banned for disrespect long ago...

Entitlement is very strong in your comments

Have you read almost every post you have made on these boards? You are the typical board nerd. I bet you still think elderly deserve respect simply because they are old? Even if they are racist assholes? Nope, sorry. Respect is earned by actions. But you keep flying the brown flag and be the champion the GMs don’t need nor want to fight for them. Nerd.

That's a wierd question...not only have i read them...i wrote them too how would one work without the other. The question is HAVE YOU? Because i somehow doubt you have. And i don't blame you for not doing it...it's a lot and there is no reason to, well...unless you want to make broad accusations and meaningless flames. (there some irony in you calling me a forum nerd there ). There are countless posts where i criticise them, but you won't find one where i make demands or threaten them or anything else that is akin to throwing a childish tantrum.

I think everyone deserves respect until they prove that they don't,
An elder person spouting racist bullshit doesn't deserve respect (but you can still respect individual actions of people you do not respect overall).
What did the devs do to you that you believe they don't deserve your respect anymore? Change the balance on a gameserver they created? Even if that was something to lose respect over (it isn't) are you comparing that to being a racist POS?

You are making it really easy for a typical board nerd (which i am, not denying it, i just disagree with your negative tone towards that ) like me to dismiss the stuff you say

Find a thread where I make demands or threaten them. And find a thread where I state that I do not respect the Devs. I highly doubt they care about respect from random players. They understand that when they make changes it's a 50/50 split with people who will like it and people who will moan. I state my opinion based on playing this game straight since 2002, not just picking it up again now that it's free. I have seen every iteration of Live from Mythic to Broadsword and all the changes in between. I've been on the internal boards and part of the podcast series live did years back. So dismiss what you like, it doesn't mean much to me because I don't play this game to be buddy buddy with randoms board nerds(glad we can agree on one point)

And really for such a "smart" random you equate hyperbole for facts?

Also for the record my biggest issue with this Dev team is making broad stroke changes without even an after thought on the player base it effects. Common courtesy in my OPINION would be if you make broad changes at least grant players who are effected by such changes a way to alter(respec). I mean when they did the buff changes that left people with lots of charge items that were worthless. It wasn't until people complained that they allowed people to sell them back at 1/2 cost(you can see even here the Devs were probably divided, some not wanting to grant anything and others wanted people to get feather back). And even then they made no statement about how the items needed to be FULLY charged in order to get the 1/2 feathers back. Simple things like this drive me insane and make me shake my head. My time on this server and these boards is rapidly approaching so you will need to find someone else to bicker with unfortunately.

Fri 24 May 2019 6:20 PM by Inkwell84

I think the spirit of this thread is getting lost in the personal petty stuff.

I have levied a request to the GM’s and ask you guys to support me:

https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=9128&p=66566

Fri 24 May 2019 7:21 PM by JohnRambo

stop uthgardizing and problem will fixed.

people loved phoenix because of QOL and you are taking it back bit by bit... thats all

Fri 24 May 2019 8:24 PM by

gruenesschaf

Bumbles wrote: ↑
Fri 24 May 2019 2:50 PM
And even then they made no statement about how the items needed to be FULLY charged in order to get the 1/2 feathers back. Simple things like this drive me insane and make me shake my head.

All the change did was allow you to sell your feather items to the feather merchants for feathers instead of copper. The reduction in sell price when the item is not fully charged is something that has been there since forever, originally probably added to avoid cases where you use up all but one potion charge before selling it. It wasn't really mentioned as it was assumed to be common knowledge.

Fri 24 May 2019 8:52 PM by Yokahu

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Fri 24 May 2019 8:24 PM
Bumbles wrote: ↑
Fri 24 May 2019 2:50 PM
And even then they made no statement about how the items needed to be FULLY charged in order to get the 1/2 feathers back. Simple things like this drive me insane and make me shake my head.

All the change did was allow you to sell your feather items to the feather merchants for feathers instead of copper. The reduction in sell price when the item is not fully charged is something that has been there since forever, originally probably added to avoid cases where you use up all but one potion charge before selling it. It wasn't really mentioned as it was assumed to be common knowledge.

Note, I wasn’t affected by this, but still want to express my opinion.

Not mentioning this was an oversight; it’s that simple. For example, I had no idea that’s how it worked on live. I’ve never sold a charge item before, so how should I have known that’s how it would worked for custom currency.

Fri 24 May 2019 11:06 PM by Frug

Yokahu wrote: ↑
Mon 20 May 2019 4:11 PM
How can you tell what’s the population of Phoenix when it’s not your playing hours?

The website I used to use to check the health of the server has not been updated in weeks now.
https://unixgeek.com/phoenix.html

Looks like it's back up.

Fri 24 May 2019 11:10 PM by djegu

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Fri 24 May 2019 8:24 PM
All the change did was allow you to sell your feather items to the feather merchants for feathers instead of copper. The reduction in sell price when the item is not fully charged is something that has been there since forever, originally probably added to avoid cases where you use up all but one potion charge before selling it. It wasn't really mentioned as it was assumed to be common knowledge.

That's a common flaw you can see everywhere, from big corporation to small corporation to even love relationship, people just assume that something is known.

I think you are doing a great job at communicating and managing the server despite all the whinning people and population decrease, but you still have room to improve. For example asking how to reduce charge cost to finally just render them useless, was clumsy as fuck.
Also if you do change that will affect people a LOT, please explain us the ulterior motive, or AT LEAST give us input, even if the implementation will be slower due to that screening, and don't give us the "it was like that in 1.65/NNF" it's a completely custom server that don't need to stick to a particular version.

I still think you need to, not reserve salvagedrop rate but, increase from 3 bar to maybe 9 ? It's more manageable for people and they can go rvr more quickly. (or start a crafting)

Sat 25 May 2019 2:34 AM by broalition

damn, thats a pretty old school name, they should probably put that old man in a rest home rather than made him a knight, noone likes listening to words of the wise.

Sat 25 May 2019 2:36 AM by t4coops

molvik fun today, bit aj'y tho

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WFEofcfvVE&feature=youtu.be

snacks, naps, sex and void eld debuff, not much better things in life !

Sat 25 May 2019 4:34 AM by dbeattie71

Yokahu wrote: ↑
Fri 24 May 2019 8:52 PM
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Fri 24 May 2019 8:24 PM
Bumbles wrote: ↑
Fri 24 May 2019 2:50 PM
And even then they made no statement about how the items needed to be FULLY charged in order to get the 1/2 feathers back. Simple things like this drive me insane and make me shake my head.

All the change did was allow you to sell your feather items to the feather merchants for feathers instead of copper. The reduction in sell price when the item is not fully charged is something that has been there since forever, originally probably added to avoid cases where you use up all but one potion charge before selling it. It wasn't really mentioned as it was assumed to be common knowledge.

Note, I wasn’t affected by this, but still want to express my opinion.

Not mentioning this was an oversight; it’s that simple. For example, I had no idea that’s how it worked on live. I’ve never sold a charge item before, so how should I have known that’s how it would worked for custom currency.

Appraise it.

Sat 25 May 2019 7:11 AM by Luluko

Frug wrote: ↑
Fri 24 May 2019 11:06 PM
Yokahu wrote: ↑
Mon 20 May 2019 4:11 PM
How can you tell what’s the population of Phoenix when it’s not your playing hours?

The website I used to use to check the health of the server has not been updated in weeks now.
https://unixgeek.com/phoenix.html

Looks like it's back up.

wow didnt think it would be 400-500 people all those solos which used to charge arent so less afterall

Sat 25 May 2019 8:15 AM by cage

stop making foolish events like molvik.

implement new frontiers with war map/tower/ports etc.

Sat 25 May 2019 10:00 AM by Ceen

cage wrote: ↑
Sat 25 May 2019 8:15 AM
stop making foolish events like molvik.

implement new frontiers with war map/tower/ports etc.

You do realize that molvik is kind of a mini NF and developement is done step by step not from scratch to Windows 10 in one step?

Sat 25 May 2019 11:23 AM by t4coops

no one wants nf, please no nf, its ok but has gotten to over played ;\

but what we have now with the ability to port to a keep that is underseige would be nice to try keep the flow of the game going always

all play stykes benefit from the fallout of zerg/keep fights, gotta keep them going, gotta give people who are new or noob or no friends or w/e have something to always go do when they log on, otherwise they slowly get bored and find other things to do then log on daoc and sit in town

Sat 1 Jun 2019 5:28 PM by t4coops

thanks for listening, altho i think it disrupted to much of the normal flow of gameplay, I think we still need a regular task zone like before, so everyone is focus'd to 1 zone not all spread out, if anything atleast that

also only porting to and from keeps if they've been in combat recently might be good, dun want people sitting around in keeps all day and stuff waiting for inc as its dead for everyone else roaming, should try to keep the flow of play the same as it was before just allow people to instantly go defend a keep if its being attacked

anyways cheers <3

Sat 1 Jun 2019 5:32 PM by florin

t4coops wrote: ↑
Sat 1 Jun 2019 5:28 PM
thanks for listening, altho i think it disrupted to much of the normal flow of gameplay, I think we still need a regular task zone like before, so everyone is focus'd to 1 zone not all spread out, if anything atleast that

also only porting to and from keeps if they've been in combat recently might be good, dun want people sitting around in keeps all day and stuff waiting for inc as its dead for everyone else roaming, should try to keep the flow of play the same as it was before just allow people to instantly go defend a keep if its being attacked

anyways cheers <3

Well that’s part of the problem. Some people don’t want to be spread out, some people don’t want zergs. Some people want to camp keeps and aoe through doors til rr10. Some want open field battles. Some want porting and some want choke points.

We are all a little or a lot bias based on our play style and how we earn rps.

Sat 1 Jun 2019 5:43 PM by t4coops

it has nothign to do with our personal playstyles it has to do with what will keep fueling the fire to keep the server populated, the longest anyway

Sat 1 Jun 2019 5:54 PM by florin

I can’t believe you fail to see how those are linked.

Here’s an example - many people prefer to play stealthers, but getting ganked by stealth groups is detrimental to solos and small man. So stealth solo and group play style needs choke points and not so much teleport. Hence we lost a wave of stealthers after the domination porting came in. So it all has to do with catering to all play styles to ensure longevity of the server.

And if solo stealthers leave then the stealther hunters have to adapt or starve. It’s the circle of scrub life.

Sat 1 Jun 2019 6:42 PM by Durgrim

Without all the changes, do you think still 3000 would play?

There is no HOW TO SAVE bla bla bla....thats all nonsense.
You cannot bring 1000 player back to a freeshard. never happened before and will never happen.
If there was a new daoc server, where ppl would have the impression they can belong to the best of the best with a fresh start, there would be another 3000 players.

But in the end, its all the same. numbers will drop and drop to a certain playerbase, lets assume 250 each realm.

The number of real game changing updates will increase the droprate.

but thats it. Just enjoy for the time being.

my2c

Sat 1 Jun 2019 7:00 PM by florin

Durgrim wrote: ↑
Sat 1 Jun 2019 6:42 PM
Without all the changes, do you think still 3000 would play?
There is no HOW TO SAVE bla bla bla....thats all nonsense.
You cannot bring 1000 player back to a freeshard. never happened before and will never happen.
If there was a new daoc server, where ppl would have the impression they can belong to the best of the best with a fresh start, there would be another 3000 players.

But in the end, its all the same. numbers will drop and drop to a certain playerbase, lets assume 250 each realm.

The number of real game changing updates will increase the droprate.

but thats it. Just enjoy for the time being.

my2c

Sure there is natural attrition and some that is caused by drastic changes. Hard to say what the numbers would be either way.

Sun 2 Jun 2019 3:34 AM by t4coops

florin wrote: ↑
Sat 1 Jun 2019 5:54 PM
I can’t believe you fail to see how those are linked.

Here’s an example - many people prefer to play stealthers, but getting ganked by stealth groups is detrimental to solos and small man. So stealth solo and group play style needs choke points and not so much teleport. Hence we lost a wave of stealthers after the domination porting came in. So it all has to do with catering to all play styles to ensure longevity of the server.

And if solo stealthers leave then the stealther hunters have to adapt or starve. It’s the circle of scrub life.

what ? like... what ? can you say the happy birthday song so we know your not having a stroke ?

Sun 2 Jun 2019 2:33 PM by florin

t4coops wrote: ↑
Sun 2 Jun 2019 3:34 AM
florin wrote: ↑
Sat 1 Jun 2019 5:54 PM
I can’t believe you fail to see how those are linked.

Here’s an example - many people prefer to play stealthers, but getting ganked by stealth groups is detrimental to solos and small man. So stealth solo and group play style needs choke points and not so much teleport. Hence we lost a wave of stealthers after the domination porting came in. So it all has to do with catering to all play styles to ensure longevity of the server.

And if solo stealthers leave then the stealther hunters have to adapt or starve. It’s the circle of scrub life.

what ? like... what ? can you say the happy birthday song so we know your not having a stroke ?

You are a moron sir - banned recently ?

Sun 2 Jun 2019 7:03 PM by t4coops

yeah and the gm said it was a mistake, dumb recently ?

(you don't have to answer that we know the answer is Yes)

(altho it wasn't a mistake, some people just have ugly souls)

Wed 5 Jun 2019 4:45 PM by Krugarde

I haven't been active for awhile now as my duo team quit. Perhaps sharing our reasons for doing so would provide a little insight.

To start off, I would be classified as the average casual player. I was not completely terrible in mechanics, movement, strategy (albeit not at high levels of play.) My partner however, was. He clicked everything, he moved with the arrow keys, and his battle plan was nonexistent. He only enjoyed RvR with me, because any time he would group with others, he would inevitably be yelled at for doing something wrong.

His first 50 was a summoning SM. While it wasn't the most efficient farm character, but he enjoyed focus shield gameplay over shamans or BD's. He was happy. Until one day, he ran out of mana before a batch of orange monster pulls died. Upon investigation of the website, an ambiguous statement of it being adjusted (the patch note seems to have been deleted at this point in time) was hiding the fact that focus shield damage was nerfed 50%. He had no interest of going dark/supp. His character was bricked. While upset, we moved on.

The Day We Quit : We had finished getting 4 characters to max level, and had taken a break as I burnt out a bit on all the pve. We logged in, ready to get farming for our temps, we had tested spots before-hand and had decided on the werewolves dropping chain where as a duo we earned roughly 3 plat an hour. Turns out, the night before all salvage drops were heavily nerfed on top of the fact that the items salvage amount was incorrect (15 bars for a chain hauberk lol). We quickly realized we needed a new spot and headed to the darkness falls gravy train. On the way, we happened upon a ns ganking a lowbie. 2vs1 shaman and zerk on a out of position stealther. Get him to 30% life, purge-vanish. Searching for him, found an infiltrator. Get her to half life, purge-vanish. We saw the nightshades name some time later killing another lowbie. He hid in a corner and waited for purge and vanish to come back so that he was in no danger whatsoever.

I understand vanish. I do. It was intended to perform quick assasinations against stragglers in the back of zerg/keep fights and give a chance of escaping before death. It isn't overpowered, it just suffers from the same problem animists do. It's anti-fun.

But with our morale lowered by time to template just multiplied, thanks to yet another random seemingly pointless nerf, and a glimpse into our future (seeing as how RvR was stealther heavy, it would be reasonable to assume as a small man they would make up a significant chunk of our enemies), we just decided it wasn't worth it. I have been browsing the patch notes and the forums hoping that it would take a turn for the better, I "want" to play. I just don't have faith right now.

Wed 5 Jun 2019 4:57 PM by Larilidan

I see myself losing more and more interest in the server because of the inability to do grp rvr. Let's not speak of the solo-experience with visible classes...
As someone who isn't able to play 24/7 and isn't part of a group of long time "live-daoc-buddies" I spend most of my time looking for a group. When I finally get one I usually don't have a lot of time left to even play or the group disbands after 1-2 wipes.
Doesn't even matter if I play sought after RvR classes or not.

I can't see myself continue playing on this server for long this way.

Wed 5 Jun 2019 7:13 PM by Warlay

easy: introduce NF and see the server finally suicide

Thu 6 Jun 2019 3:36 AM by Torye

Well i am saddened that my guild partners have all gone to CoH freeshards. I don't think they would have stayed here even without the draw of the other game but these changes didn't help. The last few nights that I have logged into my mid account have been painful. I play usually from 7 pm cst until 12 or so. But it's been really really quiet in mid. I am not sure if things have gone to private voicechat and that's why their isn't much /region talk or talk in any organized /bg's. But man totally quiet. I've been playing on my stealther because, like I said, the rest of my guild is gone and this set up isn't fun. I solo, I know weird or what!? Trying to get places is a long freaking run, and trying to choke off areas is just not a good time. I refuse to stealth zerg. I don't like CoH so I wanted Daoc to keep on going! I did love the molvik event but that seemed to be over much to fast. Anyway, that's just my two cents worth.

Thu 6 Jun 2019 3:35 PM by Moid

My problem with Phoenix has nothing to do with Phoenix. My problem with Phoenix is DAoC. My reasons for disinterest in DAoC all have to do with balance or rather the lack of balance. Abilities like mez, stun, stealth, stupid RA’s like TWF and vanish, constant nerfs and buffs. There are so many problems I have no interest in even attempting to list them all but they kill my desire to play the game.

I am looking for a game to spend some time enjoying but I don’t enjoy DAoC very much. I didn’t almost 20 years ago after leveling to 50 and learning more about the game. I was hoping this time around my interest would last longer but DAoC is still broken ass DAoC. In the end it’s a game which suffers from an extraordinarily bad design with endless hacks used to prop the game up over time rather than any true effort to fix the game.

I think the original vision for the game, or rather what I understood the original vision to be, was awesome. I think that vision still has unbelievable potential but I think the flaws in DAoC prevent it for being anything other than an extremely small niche game which will never amount to anything more. Ironically I’ve been keep my eye on CU and have discovered that MJ and company have a siege fetish. I wouldn’t be surprised if CU turns out significantly worse than DAoC.

Thu 6 Jun 2019 9:18 PM by Anaethema

My problem with Phoenix? I spent months and months beta testing and I was EXCITED to play when the server went live. I planned out what classes I wanted, their names, what realm abilities they would have (up to RR6) and what tradeskill each would have. I was full on geeked out to play!!

But something like 2-3 weeks before everything went live the developers arbitrarily decided to switch to NF realm abilities instead of OF realm abilities. Gone was my group purge druid, my nightshade with AP3 and See Hidden.. etc. I lost a LOT of my motivation to play but still logged in each day, determined to reach the goals I had set and tweaked all during beta testing. Many changes (nerfs) that were implemented after the server went live only further diminished my desire to play. After all, even if it wasn't MY favorite class being nerfed who is to say that my favorite class won't be next??

I haven't logged in to play the game for probably 6-8 weeks now.. only to pay my rent and log out. I keep hoping things will change and they will go back to OF RA's which is what I was so excited to play, but they persist in this bastardized server which isn't NF and isn't OF and doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever. But whatever.. their server so it's their rules. I just got tired of playing since they arbitrarily make decisions the majority of which make no sense to me and only pushed me further away from playing.

Go back to what they advertised this server as and so many players beta tested for them... OF RAs and I would come back to play.

Fri 7 Jun 2019 12:06 AM by Numatic

I dont play much anymore. Solo visi is all but gone. Hell solo stealth is nearly as gone. I run out with my BD and just get eaten alive by a fg of stealthers. I log on my NS and same thing. Sure I can wait 20mins for a possible straggler in the middle of emain but that still usually ends with a fg of adds. It's funny how not a single daoc server has addressed the issue that a great majority of their players like to solo but dont create an environment where its viable. Changes need to be made fundamentally to DAoC RvR that wont be in the "spirit" of the game but are necessary.

There needs to be a flat damage reduction that takes into account the amount of grouped players attacking a soloer. The amount of friendly realm mates in the vicinity and how many of those are grouped etc... while a fg should still easily kill a soloer (risk and all) it shouldnt be as easy as DAoC makes it. I know this isnt in the spirit of the game. But sometimes you need to look past that and see the fundamental flaws with the game design. Especially now 18 years later when most people just want to log on and do their own thing and log off. Daoc was a heavy group game when it released. Now, with an aging playerbase, and all the solo PvE improvements on this server, it's a wonder how they havent looked at the solo RvR part and made improvements there.

The nostalgia always hits me with daoc when I remember in the very beginning how viable soloing was until the meta came and mythic began pushing RvR as 8man/zerg only. Which is exactly what's happening here.

If you can look at solo vis and an 8man and have equal arguments about which is more viable and be fairly divided, then the goal might finally be accomplished. Until that time, DAoC freeshards will always suffer from the same thing.

Fri 7 Jun 2019 7:58 AM by Druth

Krugarde wrote: ↑
Wed 5 Jun 2019 4:45 PM
It's anti-fun.

This is what most DaoC problems boils down to.

I don't think stealthers are OP, but they are anti-fun, especially with vanish.
I don't think animists are OP, but they are anti-fun.
I don't think insta amnesia is OP, but it's anti-fun.

The list is fairly long...

Personally I think the server is quite well balanced, in that there is no blatant OP things.
But there are many anti-fun things, in my opinion.

Fri 7 Jun 2019 2:43 PM by snayan17

Fixing shrooms would go along way.

Sat 8 Jun 2019 9:47 AM by Siouxsie

Easy 5 step list to save population:

1. Remove vanish
2. Lower insane evade rate of nightshades & make all stealther armor neutral to other stealth attack types
3. Un-nerf the loot salvage
4. Fix animist shrooms and nerf elder tangler range
5. Remove instant hib amnesia

Sun 9 Jun 2019 2:07 PM by dbeattie71

I think the people that constantly whine about shrooms should go play an Animist. I have but I also play mid sometimes and haven’t died to a shroom yet. I see people panic and die to shrooms and wonder, why did they run right into them.