Phoenix killed the Paladin class

If it was even alive to begin with, QoL has killed it off. Endurance was the only thing classic Palas had to get an RvR group. Their damage is overshadowed by other melee, their peeling is overshadowed by other melee due to weaponskill, endurance chant not needed on phoenix due to pots, spec AF chant not needed due to buffs, damage add not needed as wiz/theurg do it, the heal is negated by disease causing it to do so little.

What is left of the Paladin? How can you make this class useful in some way?
Live did it by giving them a Celerity chant, finally Paladins had a use again. This would also solve the problem of Alb being all casters. Theres next to no mercs/palas etc on Albion. Celerity may balance the scale a little without tipping the balance of RvR since the alb power is caster groups.

I just want to hear something from the devs how they can bring something to the paladin since qol took rvr groups away from us.

Tue 14 May 2019 4:12 PM by vxr

Celerity chant for pallys sounds fine to me.

Tue 14 May 2019 4:22 PM by Sektor

My first 50 here was a paladin. I deleted It. Missing slams made me cringe. That is the nature of low ws hybrids. Being able to macro 10 chants seemed like a great idea until I couldn’t peel effectively. Blame game creators not the Phoenix devs they already boosted the dps and skill point gain. The class is just trash.

Tue 14 May 2019 5:05 PM by Numatic

The problem with adding celerity is that now you have a class that is terrible, except for one skill. So while that one skill may be great for melee groups, you're effectively removing a spot in a group just for celerity. Healers are essential in a group even without it, and doing that for paladins would require an entire revamp of the class.

Paladins need a complete revamp of their chants to make them more viable here.

They either need

1. Different chants with appropriate spec values (such as absorption, WS buff, defense buffs etc.)

2. Weaker, but beneficial, chants (same as others in #1) but a boost to WS/dmg.

I basically #1 makes them much more group friendly.

Unfortunately that's a great deal of time and a lot of balance issues for the devs to take on with a single class.

Tue 14 May 2019 5:18 PM by Syntax

Trust me tank groups would run a pala just for celerity. Palas would have a role now, and youd see a few more melee groups around

Tue 14 May 2019 5:21 PM by hellcon

If you are comparing to live, they had to add more than just celerity to make the class work. Many of which would be game breaking in this server.:
Instant res
Instant pbae cure
Instant group heal
Ablative chant
Celerity
Casted heals
All in the same chant spec line.
Baseline self buffs

(Comparatively the theurgist is nearly unchanged in 15 years).

While yes, i think we can all agree the class is broken. The argument that because live paladins have celerity so should phoenix paladins doesn’t hold up.

If celerity is the answer, then so be it. But based on what live had to do to get the paladin upto par, I doubt it will actually change the group game in phoenix albion. Nor do I think it is a good fit for the game on this server.

Tue 14 May 2019 5:24 PM by Bradekes

Syntax wrote: ↑
Tue 14 May 2019 3:56 PM
If it was even alive to begin with, QoL has killed it off. Endurance was the only thing classic Palas had to get an RvR group. Their damage is overshadowed by other melee, their peeling is overshadowed by other melee due to weaponskill, endurance chant not needed on phoenix due to pots, spec AF chant not needed due to buffs, damage add not needed as wiz/theurg do it, the heal is negated by disease causing it to do so little.

What is left of the Paladin? How can you make this class useful in some way?
Live did it by giving them a Celerity chant, finally Paladins had a use again. This would also solve the problem of Alb being all casters. Theres next to no mercs/palas etc on Albion. Celerity may balance the scale a little without tipping the balance of RvR since the alb power is caster groups.

I just want to hear something from the devs how they can bring something to the paladin since qol took rvr groups away from us.

Two things make me completely disregard this post... Celerity and the complaint of low WS...

They boosted Pala weapon skill table by 3 steps.. They are just below merc and 3 steps higher than champions and 4 steps higher than warden...

Also celerity would break this game right now.. Mid has it yes, but it's not a chant

Tue 14 May 2019 5:56 PM by Syntax

Celerity for alb would far from break the game. Currently theres 8 mercs and 18 paladins online from 1800 players, and that right there is a huge problem which shows exactly the problem on alb, that tanks are unviable without celerity.

Tue 14 May 2019 6:42 PM by Leandrys

^ This you do not know, it's impossible to predict what would come with that change, good guilds and teams would roll very quickly one merc, one pal and whatever you would add to that base.

It's tempting to add celerity to all realms, as we allready are heading for "mirrorred realms DAOC", but we know who are the candidates and we know what cahn quickly happen. Just the cure NS on friar kinda makes me feel sick for example, this feels wrong in that version.

I guess 1.65 simply was much crappier than what we all thought.

Tue 14 May 2019 6:52 PM by Syntax

Leandrys wrote: ↑
Tue 14 May 2019 6:42 PM
^ This you do not know, it's impossible to predict what would come with that change, good guilds and teams would roll very quickly one merc, one pal and whatever you would add to that base.

It's tempting to add celerity to all realms, as we allready are heading for "mirrorred realms DAOC", but we know who are the candidates and we know what cahn quickly happen. Just the cure NS on friar kinda makes me feel sick for example, this feels wrong in that version.

I guess 1.65 simply was much crappier than what we all thought.

It was never going to be 1.65, otherwise end pots wouldnt have existed

Tue 14 May 2019 6:59 PM by Tacos

Paladins are great on this server. Their RAs are excellent and they bring a ton of utility to your group.. If you want to both do good damage and effectively peel, you should look into a weaponless template so you can run a 6.0 for damage and a 4.1 for peeling.

Tue 14 May 2019 7:32 PM by Leandrys

Syntax wrote: ↑
Tue 14 May 2019 6:52 PM
It was never going to be 1.65, otherwise end pots wouldnt have existed

Hehe, could be a solution to Pal's problem btw.

And ease a lot archer's lives.

Tue 14 May 2019 8:19 PM by chryso

This is a load of crap. Pots killed pallies and pots are older than phoenix.

Tue 14 May 2019 8:57 PM by Syntax

chryso wrote: ↑
Tue 14 May 2019 8:19 PM
This is a load of crap. Pots killed pallies and pots are older than phoenix.

on live maybe, but they adjusted to give palas useful stuff.
phoenix said based on 1.65, then added QoL end pots, spec af from pots etc, basically taking away the things people wanted the pala for and giving nothing in return, leaving it very unwanted and unplayed. this snowballed very quickly into no paladins being played, so no mercs etc being played. albion thus was turned into a magic based realm. every group is lf theurg lf caba lf sorc, never do you see lf merc lf arms lf pala.

it needs to be addressed unless people are happy fighting assist nuke groups 100% of the time

Wed 15 May 2019 7:37 AM by Redattack

While we're discussing Pallies, can we talk about ending twisting, and making the endo chant not cost power? Seriously, everyone twists and has all the chants up at all times anyway, what purpose does it serve beyond giving players carpal tunnel? Just let all chants be running at once and be done with it. My hands hurt from all this twisting. And regarding the endo chant, perma sprint without pots is one of the nice things about the class when you're solo, but I have to keep spamming the chant to avoid using power and it's obnoxious, both visually and audibly.

As for making pallies more useful in groups, my suggestion would be, beyond the QoL changes above, to remove the resist chants entirely since nobody uses them, give them a somewhat low-value melee resist chant instead, and castable heals roughly equivalent to Friar unspecced base heals. The melee resist chant would provide the pally with a much needed niche to fill, while also compensating for the fact that all realms now have spec AF, thus giving Albs their unique "thing" back again. Castable heals would give pallies an additional role to fill as backup heals, as well as provide general utility in a group context beyond just serving as a chant bot.

Just my two cents.

Wed 15 May 2019 8:08 AM by bigne88

Celerity and shield line to both palas and wardens would be great.

Wed 15 May 2019 11:16 AM by Kampfar

Pala is op. Just ask metaljames

Wed 15 May 2019 11:34 AM by soiehib1337

Remove regen pots. Fixed.

Wed 15 May 2019 11:46 AM by labra

Agree, remove or lessen regen pots

Thu 16 May 2019 2:42 PM by stinsfire

I don't understand the devs on phoenix. They seem to follow no clear logic or plan when it comes to class balancing.

Thanes sucked arse in SI times. So they buffed them massively by reducing mana costs, increasing spell damage and reducing casttime. Wizards were the forgotten child of alb back then and noone took them in rvr so they added custom stuff and post-si things to wizards earth spec. Friar was never taken into groups despite being one of the strongest 1v1 classes so they buffed them.

Paladins? Worse than thanes or friars ever were. No damage, bad peel, no utility that your group doesnt have anyway. No buffs.
Smite cleric spec? LUL Have fun with 3-4s casttime 1350 range DDs.
Archers? Completely terrible if you want to do anything else than add Zergs or other fights if you are solo. No buffs, in fact even NERFED. PD taken away, True sight taken away, MOS taken away (was staple on hunter to counter Assassin detection range), pet destealthes the hunter (was never the case in SI!), Longshot got stealthnerfed.. In SI you could combine longshot and critshot to pen BT, but here it only does normal shot damage even if you draw a longshot crit. Exception are rr5+ Shar Blade rangers,,,

Extremely disappointed to how class balance is handled here.

Thu 16 May 2019 2:49 PM by Lollie

stinsfire wrote: ↑
Thu 16 May 2019 2:42 PM
Paladins? Worse than thanes or friars ever were. No damage, bad peel, no utility that your group doesnt have anyway. No buffs.

The buffed paladins prior to launch, increased skill points and jumped up the damage a bit. Like people have said it's the end pots that have made paladins so unlikable.
Totally agree on your cleric point and I don't think there's a soul out there that would argue against smite being made 1500 range.

Thu 16 May 2019 3:09 PM by stinsfire

Lollie wrote: ↑
Thu 16 May 2019 2:49 PM
stinsfire wrote: ↑
Thu 16 May 2019 2:42 PM
Paladins? Worse than thanes or friars ever were. No damage, bad peel, no utility that your group doesnt have anyway. No buffs.

The buffed paladins prior to launch, increased skill points and jumped up the damage a bit. Like people have said it's the end pots that have made paladins so unlikable.
Totally agree on your cleric point and I don't think there's a soul out there that would argue against smite being made 1500 range.

The thing is... paladins were meant to be on the lower end of dps for melees but provide good utility for the group, just like Wardens.
But increasing paladin damage didn't help with the problem at all. Now you have the choice between an armsman who does a fuckton of damage and misses less, gets stoicism etc. and a Paladin who does mediocre damage and provides no more utility than armsman. So I almost forgot they buffed pala dmg.
Endu pots als fuck over Archers btw. In SI solos had to manage their endu if they werent an Endu class like friar or warden. So you could kite people and when they wanted to catch up to you they had to fight you with barely any endurance. Here everyone sprints around like a marathon runner and is in your face instantly or simply sprints away.

Devs here might have good technical skills but they have no grasp on how their changes fuck up things.

Thu 16 May 2019 4:31 PM by Syntax

stinsfire wrote: ↑
Thu 16 May 2019 3:09 PM
Lollie wrote: ↑
Thu 16 May 2019 2:49 PM
stinsfire wrote: ↑
Thu 16 May 2019 2:42 PM
Paladins? Worse than thanes or friars ever were. No damage, bad peel, no utility that your group doesnt have anyway. No buffs.

The thing is... paladins were meant to be on the lower end of dps for melees but provide good utility for the group, just like Wardens.
But increasing paladin damage didn't help with the problem at all. Now you have the choice between an armsman who does a fuckton of damage and misses less, gets stoicism etc. and a Paladin who does mediocre damage and provides no more utility than armsman.

And here it lies in a nutshell. There is nothing that a Paladin brings to a group now since they all got replaced by pots which in turn allows other classes to do the palas role better. One could argue AOTG, but that would require tank groups which would mean people play the likes of Merc and Pala, which they dont due to everyone rolling caster groups with a friar peeler, and if no friar available an armsman.

Melee on alb just needs to be looked at, starting with the Paladin as no class should be left out of the game in this way.
I for one would love to see Celerity chant (like live added to compensate the class) so paladin actually has something which outperforms pots. You would soon see more people wanting to play Mercs etc with a pala, and it would not tip the scale in rvr at all because caster groups would still be more powerful. But at least there WOULD be melee groups, and palas/mercs would have something to do in the rvr game other than suiciding out of apk for realm task ticks. Hell even necros would get groups for abs debuff too. Theres just no downside to this.

Fri 17 May 2019 2:15 AM by Pendalith

Paladins are boss with the extra spec points and r.a's , just got to get higher rr to see them shine.

Fri 17 May 2019 4:11 AM by Ashenspire

Weaponskill doesn't effect miss rate. It never has.

Stop trying to hit your targets from the front.

Fri 17 May 2019 6:54 AM by Ceen

Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Fri 17 May 2019 4:11 AM
Weaponskill doesn't effect miss rate. It never has.

Stop trying to hit your targets from the front.

That's correct because weaponskill is not used at all

Fri 17 May 2019 3:46 PM by Cyrosis

Celerity chant would go a long way towards making Paladins feel useful again. I mained a Pally from SI through Laby, and if you could give me any single ability back it would the this.

Sat 18 May 2019 12:56 AM by Keltar

You know this will spark an off-shoot convo about how Hibs is the only realm without celerity...

Sat 18 May 2019 7:09 PM by teiloh

Paladins are quite good now - but they do suffer from being overlooked and not having a defined role. Chants is actually a good line: Endo is not rendered useless by pots, the +2 per tick helps you style and and sprint at the same time. Even over red Cleric spec AF, a red Pally armor chant is a big deal - the excess over Cleric spec AF results in 10-15% less damage alone. Tri-resists are also excellent as are the resist chants, although twisting is a big hassle without AHK.

Celerity (which is anywhere from +30-60% DPS) would be too strong in on Alb in combination with Necro ABS buff, and since it's a chant on a 2.5x spec class it'll end up having more uptime than an Aug Healer's which is not really fair. Likewise as said above, it will definitely open up the "why do only Hibs not have Celerity" conversation, when Hib is already the only realm without a major "melee assist" type of buffer.

What I'd go with is this:

Remove power cost on End Chant
Increase heal chant by 60% (74 at last level, for 18.4 double-tapped H/PS), and fixed to work on pets
Improve 2h a bit:
Raise GR on Bone Bruiser to around .50, to-hit on Bone-Splitter and Bone Breaker to 10. Increase Bone Splitter snare to 15s.
Doubler: Snare 12->18s, Endo from 15->10.
Sun and Moon: Stun 7s->9s, Hit Bonus 5->10, Defense Bonus 0->10
Onslaught: Snare 14-15s

Possible others if not enough
Taunt CD reduced to 20s (same for Friars)

Sat 18 May 2019 7:24 PM by Tacos

Redattack wrote: ↑
Wed 15 May 2019 7:37 AM
While we're discussing Pallies, can we talk about ending twisting, and making the endo chant not cost power? Seriously, everyone twists and has all the chants up at all times anyway, what purpose does it serve beyond giving players carpal tunnel? Just let all chants be running at once and be done with it. My hands hurt from all this twisting. And regarding the endo chant, perma sprint without pots is one of the nice things about the class when you're solo, but I have to keep spamming the chant to avoid using power and it's obnoxious, both visually and audibly.

As for making pallies more useful in groups, my suggestion would be, beyond the QoL changes above, to remove the resist chants entirely since nobody uses them, give them a somewhat low-value melee resist chant instead, and castable heals roughly equivalent to Friar unspecced base heals. The melee resist chant would provide the pally with a much needed niche to fill, while also compensating for the fact that all realms now have spec AF, thus giving Albs their unique "thing" back again. Castable heals would give pallies an additional role to fill as backup heals, as well as provide general utility in a group context beyond just serving as a chant bot.

Just my two cents.

If a paladin is not twisting resists, the effectiveness of the class is being limited. It's the same thing as a minstrel not using a pet..

Sat 18 May 2019 9:13 PM by Redattack

Tacos wrote: ↑
Sat 18 May 2019 7:24 PM
Redattack wrote: ↑
Wed 15 May 2019 7:37 AM
While we're discussing Pallies, can we talk about ending twisting, and making the endo chant not cost power? Seriously, everyone twists and has all the chants up at all times anyway, what purpose does it serve beyond giving players carpal tunnel? Just let all chants be running at once and be done with it. My hands hurt from all this twisting. And regarding the endo chant, perma sprint without pots is one of the nice things about the class when you're solo, but I have to keep spamming the chant to avoid using power and it's obnoxious, both visually and audibly.

As for making pallies more useful in groups, my suggestion would be, beyond the QoL changes above, to remove the resist chants entirely since nobody uses them, give them a somewhat low-value melee resist chant instead, and castable heals roughly equivalent to Friar unspecced base heals. The melee resist chant would provide the pally with a much needed niche to fill, while also compensating for the fact that all realms now have spec AF, thus giving Albs their unique "thing" back again. Castable heals would give pallies an additional role to fill as backup heals, as well as provide general utility in a group context beyond just serving as a chant bot.

Just my two cents.

If a paladin is not twisting resists, the effectiveness of the class is being limited. It's the same thing as a minstrel not using a pet..

Do you enjoy giving yourself carpal tunnel? Or do you just have 3 hands? Because I only have two, and twisting chants, using styles, and moving in combat is already complicated enough without throwing in the resist chants. We still don't really have a clear answer on whether macros for twisting are okay, so that's not an option for many people. Unless you're using macros that may or may not be allowed, or have multiple hands, twisting the resists on top of everything else isn't really viable for most people unless you're literally just hanging back playing block/chant bot and not otherwise participating in combat.

Sun 19 May 2019 1:59 AM by Tacos

Redattack wrote: ↑
Sat 18 May 2019 9:13 PM
Tacos wrote: ↑
Sat 18 May 2019 7:24 PM
Redattack wrote: ↑
Wed 15 May 2019 7:37 AM
While we're discussing Pallies, can we talk about ending twisting, and making the endo chant not cost power? Seriously, everyone twists and has all the chants up at all times anyway, what purpose does it serve beyond giving players carpal tunnel? Just let all chants be running at once and be done with it. My hands hurt from all this twisting. And regarding the endo chant, perma sprint without pots is one of the nice things about the class when you're solo, but I have to keep spamming the chant to avoid using power and it's obnoxious, both visually and audibly.

As for making pallies more useful in groups, my suggestion would be, beyond the QoL changes above, to remove the resist chants entirely since nobody uses them, give them a somewhat low-value melee resist chant instead, and castable heals roughly equivalent to Friar unspecced base heals. The melee resist chant would provide the pally with a much needed niche to fill, while also compensating for the fact that all realms now have spec AF, thus giving Albs their unique "thing" back again. Castable heals would give pallies an additional role to fill as backup heals, as well as provide general utility in a group context beyond just serving as a chant bot.

Just my two cents.

If a paladin is not twisting resists, the effectiveness of the class is being limited. It's the same thing as a minstrel not using a pet..

Do you enjoy giving yourself carpal tunnel? Or do you just have 3 hands? Because I only have two, and twisting chants, using styles, and moving in combat is already complicated enough without throwing in the resist chants. We still don't really have a clear answer on whether macros for twisting are okay, so that's not an option for many people. Unless you're using macros that may or may not be allowed, or have multiple hands, twisting the resists on top of everything else isn't really viable for most people unless you're literally just hanging back playing block/chant bot and not otherwise participating in combat.

It sounds like an armsman is up your alley.

Sun 19 May 2019 4:24 AM by Bradekes

Redattack wrote: ↑
Sat 18 May 2019 9:13 PM
Do you enjoy giving yourself carpal tunnel? Or do you just have 3 hands? Because I only have two, and twisting chants, using styles, and moving in combat is already complicated enough without throwing in the resist chants. We still don't really have a clear answer on whether macros for twisting are okay, so that's not an option for many people. Unless you're using macros that may or may not be allowed, or have multiple hands, twisting the resists on top of everything else isn't really viable for most people unless you're literally just hanging back playing block/chant bot and not otherwise participating in combat.

it's actually been stated plenty of times about chant macros... You can have a macro activate multiple chants but it cannot do it on a delay or auto reactivation

Sun 19 May 2019 4:46 AM by gotwqqd

Do gaming input devices have factors that can be randomized?

Mon 20 May 2019 12:54 AM by Moid

I have no doubt that the Phoenix guys will buff the Paladin soon despite the fact that Albion is frequently the most populous realm.

The question is how long it’ll take before Friars get another buff.

Mon 20 May 2019 4:18 PM by Ardri

If you check classes, often times there are more paladins than there are armsman/mercs.

Mon 20 May 2019 4:36 PM by Syntax

Ardri wrote: ↑
Mon 20 May 2019 4:18 PM
If you check classes, often times there are more paladins than there are armsman/mercs.

The most ive ever seen is 18 paladins, and thats usually just for some pve encounter or people levelling pve tanks. Even less arms and mercs just fortifies this argument, as with cele on pala youd see more arms and mercs.

Tue 21 May 2019 3:48 PM by BaldEagle

Celerity chant and the ability or run heat/cold resists buffs sound pretty useful to me.

Wed 22 May 2019 4:37 PM by Syntax

come on Uthred give us something to get picked again

Wed 22 May 2019 4:44 PM by Sektor

BaldEagle wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 3:48 PM
Celerity chant and the ability or run heat/cold resists buffs sound pretty useful to me.

Then friars can say goodbye to their spot. Nty to the heat and cold

Wed 22 May 2019 6:05 PM by Fayynne

I can't get over how many people think Paladins are bad...

Wed 22 May 2019 6:18 PM by Freedomcall

Why do you think paladin is bad?
They are great class.
The reason paladins arent invited is just because there are only 8 slots in 1 grp.
Its not the class problem, its rather the problem of the daoc system itself.
There are 14 classes in alb and only 8 can be included to a grp. but 2 of them are already clerics'!
If paladin wants to be invited, it should compete other classes in alb and take the slot away from them. That is why pallies and friars can never considered a 'good class' even their class itself is already good enough.

Wed 22 May 2019 9:03 PM by Syntax

Freedomcall wrote: ↑
Wed 22 May 2019 6:18 PM
Why do you think paladin is bad?
They are great class.
The reason paladins arent invited is just because there are only 8 slots in 1 grp.
Its not the class problem, its rather the problem of the daoc system itself.
There are 14 classes in alb and only 8 can be included to a grp. but 2 of them are already clerics'!
If paladin wants to be invited, it should compete other classes in alb and take the slot away from them. That is why pallies and friars can never considered a 'good class' even their class itself is already good enough.

You are wrong in so many ways.
- Damage is lower than the other melee
- Hit rate is lower due to weaponskill meaning other classes peel better
- The chants are covered by theurgists and pots (the actual reason paladin used to get a spot in some groups)
- Does not have stoicism or charge.

Lets be real, the only reason pala got invited was for end chant / peel bot. Right now they are not needed for anything but PvE and this is what happened on Live too, hence why they gave them celerity, not only to give paladins some reason to be invited but also to boost the low amount of melee groups that was being played on albion (as is the case here also)

Wed 22 May 2019 9:18 PM by teiloh

Syntax wrote: ↑
Wed 22 May 2019 9:03 PM
You are wrong in so many ways.
- Damage is lower than the other melee
- Hit rate is lower due to weaponskill meaning other classes peel better
- The chants are covered by theurgists and pots (the actual reason paladin used to get a spot in some groups)
- Does not have stoicism or charge.

Lets be real, the only reason pala got invited was for end chant / peel bot. Right now they are not needed for anything but PvE and this is what happened on Live too, hence why they gave them celerity, not only to give paladins some reason to be invited but also to boost the low amount of melee groups that was being played on albion (as is the case here also)

afaik WS affects defense penetration, but not base miss rate which is just affected by level and style/arrow bonuses.

Pally end is nice for running and styling, and AF + Resist chants can be fantastic if timed well. Heal chant and DPS chants are weak but they're still not nothing. Right now I think they suffer from a lack of familiarity in Alb and perhaps the weaknesses of the 2h line.

Wed 29 May 2019 7:54 PM by Kemoauc

I would really like to see celerity on pala but I guess that would be too much to ask.

I think one of the worst maybe not that obvious disadvantages paladins have is their godawful stat increase: Con / Pie / Str. Is there any other melee class in the game where the main damage attribute is not the primary? we lose 30 strength just because some guy 20 years ago had some fairy tale picture of brave paladins in mind and decided they should be tanky and have more mana (for what exactly?)

edit: maybe changing the stat priorities would already be a good enough buff to help paladin dmg out a bit... not sure if that is even possible though

Sun 2 Feb 2020 9:41 PM by BisbyHoughton

How are paladins doing these days?

Sun 2 Feb 2020 9:53 PM by Isavyr

Much stronger. I wish you would have created a new thread instead of necro'ing an outdated thread with such an antagonistic and flatly wrong message.

They have 2.5x spec points.
They have higher damage.

Currently they can go 2H and hit quite hard. An arms and a paladin will do more DPS than two arms, for example.

The lack of stoicism still hurts them from performing their role but it's better than other classic servers which left Paladins in the dumpster.

Mon 3 Feb 2020 10:02 AM by Razur Ur

Syntax wrote: ↑
Wed 22 May 2019 9:03 PM
Freedomcall wrote: ↑
Wed 22 May 2019 6:18 PM
Why do you think paladin is bad?
They are great class.
The reason paladins arent invited is just because there are only 8 slots in 1 grp.
Its not the class problem, its rather the problem of the daoc system itself.
There are 14 classes in alb and only 8 can be included to a grp. but 2 of them are already clerics'!
If paladin wants to be invited, it should compete other classes in alb and take the slot away from them. That is why pallies and friars can never considered a 'good class' even their class itself is already good enough.

You are wrong in so many ways.
- Damage is lower than the other melee
- Hit rate is lower due to weaponskill meaning other classes peel better
- The chants are covered by theurgists and pots (the actual reason paladin used to get a spot in some groups)
- Does not have stoicism or charge.

Lets be real, the only reason pala got invited was for end chant / peel bot. Right now they are not needed for anything but PvE and this is what happened on Live too, hence why they gave them celerity, not only to give paladins some reason to be invited but also to boost the low amount of melee groups that was being played on albion (as is the case here also)

Same situation with Champion only strong by solo play 1vs1 but in group needed not rly anywhere a champion. that was the reason on live server for group
endureduce chant for more group avaible with tankgroups + rr5 ability boost. The melee base dmg table from champion is to low on this free shard server! Pala and
Thane got more dps in contrast to champion.

Sun 9 Feb 2020 9:21 PM by Cadebrennus

stinsfire wrote: ↑
Thu 16 May 2019 3:09 PM
Lollie wrote: ↑
Thu 16 May 2019 2:49 PM
stinsfire wrote: ↑
Thu 16 May 2019 2:42 PM
Paladins? Worse than thanes or friars ever were. No damage, bad peel, no utility that your group doesnt have anyway. No buffs.

The buffed paladins prior to launch, increased skill points and jumped up the damage a bit. Like people have said it's the end pots that have made paladins so unlikable.
Totally agree on your cleric point and I don't think there's a soul out there that would argue against smite being made 1500 range.

The thing is... paladins were meant to be on the lower end of dps for melees but provide good utility for the group, just like Wardens.
But increasing paladin damage didn't help with the problem at all. Now you have the choice between an armsman who does a fuckton of damage and misses less, gets stoicism etc. and a Paladin who does mediocre damage and provides no more utility than armsman. So I almost forgot they buffed pala dmg.
Endu pots als fuck over Archers btw. In SI solos had to manage their endu if they werent an Endu class like friar or warden. So you could kite people and when they wanted to catch up to you they had to fight you with barely any endurance. Here everyone sprints around like a marathon runner and is in your face instantly or simply sprints away.

Devs here might have good technical skills but they have no grasp on how their changes fuck up things.

Mon 10 Feb 2020 1:47 PM by Tritri

Don't Necro !