Please stop rewarding RP for PvE

Can we stop giving RP for keep takes that no one is in --- it's absolutely idiotic. It's one thing to take your own keeps back, it's another to PvE keeps, and worse when the same leaders consistently run from fights, and be rewarded for cowardice.

Wed 15 May 2019 11:22 PM by Leandrys

Whine thread.

Wed 15 May 2019 11:43 PM by shintacki

I’d rather have the most people possible playing this server. If rewarding people for keep takes keeps some people playing, keep doing it.

Thu 16 May 2019 3:17 AM by ExcretusMaximus

shintacki wrote: ↑
Wed 15 May 2019 11:43 PM
I’d rather have the most people possible playing this server. If rewarding people for keep takes keeps some people playing, keep doing it.

100% correct.

Thu 16 May 2019 3:24 AM by Fayynne

Yeah let's nerf keep rps and give the zergs more reasons to run 3fg stuck in breifine

Fri 17 May 2019 1:22 PM by Ardri

Leandrys wrote: ↑
Wed 15 May 2019 11:22 PM
Whine thread.

Where's the cheese?

Sat 18 May 2019 10:54 AM by Wasted_Content

mattymc wrote: ↑
Wed 15 May 2019 11:19 PM
Can we stop giving RP for keep takes that no one is in --- it's absolutely idiotic. It's one thing to take your own keeps back, it's another to PvE keeps, and worse when the same leaders consistently run from fights, and be rewarded for cowardice.

You make a solid point, but this isn't a problem with the system, it's a problem with the players.

Like, in theory, how easy would it be to form up a few groups (or a counter-zerg, as it were) and go roll the keep PvE'ers for huge ass gains and giant fun fights? Theoretically, it should be easy. Unfortunately, most DAoC players are instant-gratification AFKers so the same groups of people who are AFK PvEing keeps exist on ALL 3 realms, so it's actually quite tough.

Sat 18 May 2019 1:57 PM by mattymc

It's seems responders prefer a GAHERIS rule set --- kinda sad

Sat 18 May 2019 2:31 PM by Pops999

One more time, some player isn't happy that one play style does not fit his sense of what's proper. So please nerf.

Sat 18 May 2019 5:49 PM by Druth

Not really sure what the problem is.
Taking keeps is an integrated part of RvR.

If it's about not deserving the rps, then we should remove rps rewards for:

- Killing people below your lvl/RR
- Killing smallman/solo with a fg
- Adding fights
- Class X beating class Y
- Killing someone afk

And then you open up if we want a complete separation between PvE and PvP, so no gold/xp from PvP action.

I get it, rps should be earned from actually meeting someone from another realm.
But you can't force people to PvP if they dont want to, and I'd rather have them in RvR zones not wanting to fight, than not have them at all.

Sun 19 May 2019 5:29 AM by Zzang

I think something that would help would be to make keeptakes much more valuable if you were less people. Right now you want as many participants as possible to take the keeps faster/more secure. If you had the incentive to go smaller BGs and try to take keeps you could also have more people wanting to defend because lets face it, forming a defense party against 130 people is quite cumbersome. Not to mention that if you lose a zergfight half of the people tend to leave.

That being said, keepraids are a way for new/casual players to get some rps without having the optimal class or skill to join a 'real' group. In my opinion there should still be some way for this but right now it's far too good to just run for undefended keeps with a huge amount of players.

This is a problem with the players but it can be countered with some smart moves from the Devs. Incentive is the key and adding more ways for smaller groups to get rewarded for sieges (even if they fail) is one such thing.

Sun 19 May 2019 7:28 PM by mattymc

Druth wrote: ↑
Sat 18 May 2019 5:49 PM
Not really sure what the problem is.
Taking keeps is an integrated part of RvR.

If it's about not deserving the rps, then we should remove rps rewards for:

- Killing people below your lvl/RR
- Killing smallman/solo with a fg
- Adding fights
- Class X beating class Y
- Killing someone afk

And then you open up if we want a complete separation between PvE and PvP, so no gold/xp from PvP action.

I get it, rps should be earned from actually meeting someone from another realm.
But you can't force people to PvP if they dont want to, and I'd rather have them in RvR zones not wanting to fight, than not have them at all.

Not at all --- you go into the frontiers you take your chances, you have a shot and you earn what you earn ---- while taking a keep is 'part of the experience', taking undefended keeps is NOT or, shouldn't be, rewarded with RP's --- it's not play style, there are games and versions of this game that are specifically for that, playing against the game, while the purpose of THIS version is to play against other players.

Sun 19 May 2019 8:46 PM by Druth

mattymc wrote: ↑
Sun 19 May 2019 7:28 PM
Not at all --- you go into the frontiers you take your chances, you have a shot and you earn what you earn ---- while taking a keep is 'part of the experience', taking undefended keeps is NOT or, shouldn't be, rewarded with RP's --- it's not play style, there are games and versions of this game that are specifically for that, playing against the game, while the purpose of THIS version is to play against other players.

So you would enable defenders to deny attackers rps from attacking a keep, by running from it?
And how would you propose calculating rps from attacking a keep?
Would you get zero rps if you tore through the toughest keep, and the defenders suicided in the end?

Or do all attackers just need to "tag" one enemy at the keep for credit and get full rps?

And I still don't even think I understand what the problem here is.
Is it that they get "undeserved" rps?
Or that we expect them all to do normal RvR if we deny them rps from keeps?

Do we want to have the highly likely risk that many of them will simply not go to RvR zones, and instead quit. And that this will make the server more empty, making even more quit?

As it is now, the people taking undefended keeps might not want to fight you, but you can fight them if you want to.
You can't fight them if they have left the server.

Mon 20 May 2019 7:47 PM by mattymc

Not that hard to understand -- NO RP's -- if they want feathers etc, fine --- silly imo but fine, just no RP...you want RP for PvE, go to GAHERIS or a GAHERIS clone; if folks run -- chase em

Mon 20 May 2019 8:09 PM by Druth

mattymc wrote: ↑
Mon 20 May 2019 7:47 PM
Not that hard to understand -- NO RP's -- if they want feathers etc, fine --- silly imo but fine, just no RP...you want RP for PvE, go to GAHERIS or a GAHERIS clone; if folks run -- chase em

But why?
How does this hurt you?

And it's Realm Points, not Scalp Points. You get it for doing realm stuff, like... taking enemy keeps.

Mon 20 May 2019 8:29 PM by Pops999

Keep at it kid, soon you will be able to circlejerk all by your 8 man lonesome.

Mon 20 May 2019 11:12 PM by mattymc

Think you're the kid there mate...childish reply. It's not about hurting it's about "what is the game'?? Why not go back to giving realm points for randomly standing in the frontiers --- it's simply silly

Tue 21 May 2019 12:15 AM by Quik

Taking keeps I part of RvR...

Seems unfair to punish people for taking keeps because that particular realm doesn't want to defend at that moment.

Tue 21 May 2019 12:41 AM by Pops999

Silly is thinking your way is the only correct way. Every little incentive to keep the casual player interested, you want to remove. You and your ilk can't stand anyone not playing by your rules.

My interest is flagging, the few rewards you allow me to earn are being removed one by one. A new shiney starts up in August, I will play til I grow bored with that game's elite my way or the highway attitude. Happens every time. Some of you think these games are SERIOUS BUSINESS, when it's just entertainment for most.

Tue 21 May 2019 1:49 PM by mattymc

Pops999 wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 12:41 AM
Silly is thinking your way is the only correct way. Every little incentive to keep the casual player interested, you want to remove. You and your ilk can't stand anyone not playing by your rules.

My interest is flagging, the few rewards you allow me to earn are being removed one by one. A new shiney starts up in August, I will play til I grow bored with that game's elite my way or the highway attitude. Happens every time. Some of you think these games are SERIOUS BUSINESS, when it's just entertainment for most.

Silly is being rewarded, in a game DESIGNED for Player v PLayer, for NOT fighting players....GAHERIS is still up for you -- enjoy

Tue 21 May 2019 2:03 PM by Druth

mattymc wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 1:49 PM
Silly is being rewarded, in a game DESIGNED for Player v PLayer, for NOT fighting players....GAHERIS is still up for you -- enjoy

Even the Mythic PvP servers rewarded rps for taking keeps.
Not sure what part of DaoC you are talking about.

Tue 21 May 2019 2:23 PM by Pops999

mattymc wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 1:49 PM
Pops999 wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 12:41 AM
Silly is thinking your way is the only correct way. Every little incentive to keep the casual player interested, you want to remove. You and your ilk can't stand anyone not playing by your rules.

My interest is flagging, the few rewards you allow me to earn are being removed one by one. A new shiney starts up in August, I will play til I grow bored with that game's elite my way or the highway attitude. Happens every time. Some of you think these games are SERIOUS BUSINESS, when it's just entertainment for most.

Silly is being rewarded, in a game DESIGNED for Player v PLayer, for NOT fighting players....GAHERIS is still up for you -- enjoy

Where have I heard that before?

Oh yeah, from a kid. Hit the nail right on the head.

Tue 21 May 2019 4:18 PM by Quik

mattymc wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 1:49 PM
Pops999 wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 12:41 AM
Silly is thinking your way is the only correct way. Every little incentive to keep the casual player interested, you want to remove. You and your ilk can't stand anyone not playing by your rules.

My interest is flagging, the few rewards you allow me to earn are being removed one by one. A new shiney starts up in August, I will play til I grow bored with that game's elite my way or the highway attitude. Happens every time. Some of you think these games are SERIOUS BUSINESS, when it's just entertainment for most.

Silly is being rewarded, in a game DESIGNED for Player v PLayer, for NOT fighting players....GAHERIS is still up for you -- enjoy

Actually, since this server DOES give RP's for keep takes even with no defenders, maybe YOU should move on.

The people who WANT RP's for keep takes regardless of defenders are getting what they should get, RP's. If you don't want them to get RP's then defend, otherwise maybe live is a better place for your play style. Everyone else can play here and continue to enjoy the play style this server allows =).

Wed 22 May 2019 5:12 PM by mattymc

Druth wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 2:03 PM
mattymc wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 1:49 PM
Silly is being rewarded, in a game DESIGNED for Player v PLayer, for NOT fighting players....GAHERIS is still up for you -- enjoy

Even the Mythic PvP servers rewarded rps for taking keeps.
Not sure what part of DaoC you are talking about.

Live did an immense amount of silly things, hence the popularity of these types of shards....

Wed 22 May 2019 5:24 PM by Druth

mattymc wrote: ↑
Wed 22 May 2019 5:12 PM
Druth wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 2:03 PM
mattymc wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 1:49 PM
Silly is being rewarded, in a game DESIGNED for Player v PLayer, for NOT fighting players....GAHERIS is still up for you -- enjoy

Even the Mythic PvP servers rewarded rps for taking keeps.
Not sure what part of DaoC you are talking about.

Live did an immense amount of silly things, hence the popularity of these types of shards....

I had fun on Live from Launch till Cata, don't think keep rps broke the game.

I understand if you are frustrated that people rather want to PvE keeps and dodge fights. Baffles me as well.
But I know from experience (Uthgard 1.0 did that, or was it 2?) that removing rps simply makes those people stop coming there. And then you go from being able to attack them, to have no enemies, and it goes downwards fast pop-wise after that.

Wed 22 May 2019 5:58 PM by florin

Keeps are relevant- you get titles, rps, xp,claws, feathers and rp bonus and multiplier on top aaaand df.

Aside from being OF keeps- best implementation I’ve seen.

If the bgs want to fight each other or not is up to the bg leader right?

Thu 23 May 2019 2:09 PM by mattymc

No, many BG leaders just run and PvE elsewhere --- hence my point. It's more about the reward structure --- the GREATEST rewards should be for FIGHTING, not PvE'ing

Thu 23 May 2019 2:15 PM by Sepplord

mattymc wrote: ↑
Thu 23 May 2019 2:09 PM
No, many BG leaders just run and PvE elsewhere --- hence my point. It's more about the reward structure --- the GREATEST rewards should be for FIGHTING, not PvE'ing

the greatest rewards ARE for fighting though....but fighting can also result in really low rewards

many don't want to take the risk

Thu 23 May 2019 2:19 PM by Pops999

Wonder how many bonus rp's Kidmc has earned from all those keeps taken. Not all of us can RvR 24/7 anymore, giving welfare rp's "keeps" us in the game.

You need your sheep little boy, you and your kind likely avoid each other in the open field too.

Thu 23 May 2019 6:22 PM by Keelia

The more people we can keep playing the better. Keepsbshould give rps. If you are so deeply offended by those taking keeps form a BG and stop them.

Fri 24 May 2019 2:48 PM by mattymc

Keelia wrote: ↑
Thu 23 May 2019 6:22 PM
The more people we can keep playing the better. Keepsbshould give rps. If you are so deeply offended by those taking keeps form a BG and stop them.

I am sure you would have even more 'player' if you just gave out free RP/rewards for standing in the frontier; at some point you will learn things earned are more valuable than given.....

Fri 24 May 2019 2:57 PM by PingGuy

mattymc wrote: ↑
Fri 24 May 2019 2:48 PM
Keelia wrote: ↑
Thu 23 May 2019 6:22 PM
The more people we can keep playing the better. Keepsbshould give rps. If you are so deeply offended by those taking keeps form a BG and stop them.

I am sure you would have even more 'player' if you just gave out free RP/rewards for standing in the frontier; at some point you will learn things earned are more valuable than given.....

Do you want targets to fight or not? You have to incentivize people to come and play and go out and RvR or it will end up with 5 guys rotating solo fights until the devs lose interest and shut it down. Phoenix has something unique here that is maintaining interest and still getting new players, that is great. Why would they want to ruin that appeal just so those who are bad at playing never make RR2? Who cares, seriously?

Mon 27 May 2019 11:22 PM by mattymc

PingGuy wrote: ↑
Fri 24 May 2019 2:57 PM
mattymc wrote: ↑
Fri 24 May 2019 2:48 PM
Keelia wrote: ↑
Thu 23 May 2019 6:22 PM
The more people we can keep playing the better. Keepsbshould give rps. If you are so deeply offended by those taking keeps form a BG and stop them.

I am sure you would have even more 'player' if you just gave out free RP/rewards for standing in the frontier; at some point you will learn things earned are more valuable than given.....

Do you want targets to fight or not? You have to incentivize people to come and play and go out and RvR or it will end up with 5 guys rotating solo fights until the devs lose interest and shut it down. Phoenix has something unique here that is maintaining interest and still getting new players, that is great. Why would they want to ruin that appeal just so those who are bad at playing never make RR2? Who cares, seriously?

Perhaps your comprehension isnt so good, but how does people who PvE keeps and run from fights incentivize fighting? -- you're never fighting THEM if indeed your fighting anyone at all.... your point is what?

Tue 28 May 2019 2:56 PM by PingGuy

mattymc wrote: ↑
Mon 27 May 2019 11:22 PM
PingGuy wrote: ↑
Fri 24 May 2019 2:57 PM
mattymc wrote: ↑
Fri 24 May 2019 2:48 PM
I am sure you would have even more 'player' if you just gave out free RP/rewards for standing in the frontier; at some point you will learn things earned are more valuable than given.....

Do you want targets to fight or not? You have to incentivize people to come and play and go out and RvR or it will end up with 5 guys rotating solo fights until the devs lose interest and shut it down. Phoenix has something unique here that is maintaining interest and still getting new players, that is great. Why would they want to ruin that appeal just so those who are bad at playing never make RR2? Who cares, seriously?

Perhaps your comprehension isnt so good, but how does people who PvE keeps and run from fights incentivize fighting? -- you're never fighting THEM if indeed your fighting anyone at all.... your point is what?

They get points for attacking keeps, they don't get points for running away from fights. Giving points for attacking keeps gets people out into the frontiers where you can try to kill them. If they run away too often, then that is another problem, and it won't be solved by taking away RP's for attacking keeps.

Wed 29 May 2019 6:34 AM by Wasted_Content

Again, the problem here isn't with the system, it's with the players and their interactions with the system. PvEing keeps incentivizes people to afk zerg it out. Form a counter-zerg (honestly you could do it with 2FGish if you were smart/tactical) and just go farm them.

Wed 29 May 2019 10:29 AM by ulf

yes take empty keep = 0 rp