Orsea Keep : Cathal Valley - Phoenix Freeshard

Due to the poor keep design (double outer doors), the most effective way to capture the keep is to send one or more assassins over the wall to kill the commander in the tower. The commander is orange to 39, An unclaimed keep commander can be soloed by an assassin (it has happened multiple times), a lvl 4 keep commander can be killed either by 2 assassins or 1 assassin and a healer stood behind the tower keep using AoE group heals. Is this working as intended? I believe the commander needs to be at least red to 39 even for the unclaimed version.

Wed 8 May 2019 12:30 PM by Sayuri

even lvl 4 keep can be soloed ^^

Wed 8 May 2019 12:57 PM by Hejjin

Sayuri wrote: ↑
Wed 8 May 2019 12:30 PM
even lvl 4 keep can be soloed ^^

Ok, I presume a twinked assassin? Regardless, it is still too easy to take.

Wed 8 May 2019 1:44 PM by Sepplord

Commander should be invincible while doors are intact i guess, should be a decent solution without having to interfer with the intentional strength of him

Wed 8 May 2019 2:42 PM by Hejjin

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Wed 8 May 2019 1:44 PM
Commander should be invincible while doors are intact i guess, should be a decent solution without having to interfer with the intentional strength of him

That would work, but could they move the inner door and place doors on the tower? They may not be able to due to the client, but something needs to be done.

Fri 10 May 2019 7:07 PM by Hejjin

Well this afternoon it seems like some assassins are taking turns to flip Orsea, it has gone back and forth between Alb, Mid and Hib several times. A nice easy way to get claws, feathers and keep take tasks...1 assassin has an easier time taking the keep than 2 groups of non assassins. Working as intended? Really?

Mon 13 May 2019 11:59 AM by Apfelisina

Hejjin wrote: ↑
Wed 8 May 2019 2:42 PM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Wed 8 May 2019 1:44 PM
Commander should be invincible while doors are intact i guess, should be a decent solution without having to interfer with the intentional strength of him

That would work, but could they move the inner door and place doors on the tower? They may not be able to due to the client, but something needs to be done.

Please consider moving the second door. Our ram got placed diagonally in the tiny hallway before the second door and no one could enter/aim the ram.

Mon 13 May 2019 12:19 PM by florin

Claim the keep defend the keep - this at least let’s people turn in college items

Mon 13 May 2019 12:42 PM by Hejjin

florin wrote: ↑
Mon 13 May 2019 12:19 PM
Claim the keep defend the keep - this at least let’s people turn in college items

A claimed keep at max level (4) can still have the commander soloed by 1 assassin. As for defending it, I spent most of last week on my scout in Cathal valley, other than the initial weekend, every single keep take that I was in the zone for was performed by an assassin. There were not enough attacks on the keep to justify a defence by even one person, let alone several. Due to the poor keep design, a sole defender either has the choice of staying with the commander in the hope of preventing a single assassin taking it, or stay on the walls watching for frontal assaults whilst doing regular patrols back to the keep tower to determine if the commander was ok as for some reason I kept losing the commander and other guards when I had them targeted, a number of times the keep was taken in between my patrols. Orsea keep is very poorly designed.

Mon 13 May 2019 12:46 PM by Hejjin

Apfelisina wrote: ↑
Mon 13 May 2019 11:59 AM
Hejjin wrote: ↑
Wed 8 May 2019 2:42 PM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Wed 8 May 2019 1:44 PM
Commander should be invincible while doors are intact i guess, should be a decent solution without having to interfer with the intentional strength of him

That would work, but could they move the inner door and place doors on the tower? They may not be able to due to the client, but something needs to be done.

Please consider moving the second door. Our ram got placed diagonally in the tiny hallway before the second door and no one could enter/aim the ram.

A ram positioned outside the outer doors and aimed at the inner doors will successfully be able to attack them, however that means the ram, and its occupants are then in ling of sight of the respawning guards and so will be attacked. So the problems you are facing are entirely of your own making, stop exploiting LoS issues with the guards and place your rams properly.

Mon 13 May 2019 1:05 PM by florin

Hejjin wrote: ↑
Mon 13 May 2019 12:42 PM
florin wrote: ↑
Mon 13 May 2019 12:19 PM
Claim the keep defend the keep - this at least let’s people turn in college items

A claimed keep at max level (4) can still have the commander soloed by 1 assassin. As for defending it, I spent most of last week on my scout in Cathal valley, other than the initial weekend, every single keep take that I was in the zone for was performed by an assassin. There were not enough attacks on the keep to justify a defence by even one person, let alone several. Due to the poor keep design, a sole defender either has the choice of staying with the commander in the hope of preventing a single assassin taking it, or stay on the walls watching for frontal assaults whilst doing regular patrols back to the keep tower to determine if the commander was ok as for some reason I kept losing the commander and other guards when I had them targeted, a number of times the keep was taken in between my patrols. Orsea keep is very poorly designed.

you keep saying poor keep design - they are working as intended as are Nott, Crim and Eras. What's the problem with a keep switching hands especially when there are not enough attackers or defenders to mount a proper siege?

Mon 13 May 2019 1:25 PM by Hejjin

florin wrote: ↑
Mon 13 May 2019 1:05 PM
Hejjin wrote: ↑
Mon 13 May 2019 12:42 PM
florin wrote: ↑
Mon 13 May 2019 12:19 PM
Claim the keep defend the keep - this at least let’s people turn in college items

A claimed keep at max level (4) can still have the commander soloed by 1 assassin. As for defending it, I spent most of last week on my scout in Cathal valley, other than the initial weekend, every single keep take that I was in the zone for was performed by an assassin. There were not enough attacks on the keep to justify a defence by even one person, let alone several. Due to the poor keep design, a sole defender either has the choice of staying with the commander in the hope of preventing a single assassin taking it, or stay on the walls watching for frontal assaults whilst doing regular patrols back to the keep tower to determine if the commander was ok as for some reason I kept losing the commander and other guards when I had them targeted, a number of times the keep was taken in between my patrols. Orsea keep is very poorly designed.

you keep saying poor keep design - they are working as intended as are Nott, Crim and Eras. What's the problem with a keep switching hands especially when there are not enough attackers or defenders to mount a proper siege?

From a historical perspective, the keeps are incredibly poorly designed, but this a is a game, so I won't bother pointing out all the architectural defensive deficiencies and instead will ask the question, can the keep commanders of Nott, Crim and Eras be soloed by an assassin? The answer is no, even in their non-upgraded form, whereas Orsea can, that is what makes it a poor design, it is trivial for an assassin to climb the walls and then kill a very easy tower commander all with zero risk of other guards adding to the fight.

If the keeps were not so easy to take by 1 assassin, then keep assaults would be more inclined to happen, there were a number of them over the first weekend the zone was added, and then it was discovered that assassins could solo take the keep and the need for assaults and keep defence vanished.

Mon 13 May 2019 1:26 PM by Boltman

[/quote]
A ram positioned outside the outer doors and aimed at the inner doors will successfully be able to attack them, however that means the ram, and its occupants are then in ling of sight of the respawning guards and so will be attacked. So the problems you are facing are entirely of your own making, stop exploiting LoS issues with the guards and place your rams properly.
[/quote]

Unfortunately , even when placed outside the building you can't use a ram, keeps saying that the door is too far away to hit. We placed 4 different rams in 4 places and wasn't able to hit the inner door with any. Once it got in range to hit, you would be forcibly removed from the ram and you couldn't get back on.

Mon 13 May 2019 1:53 PM by Hejjin

Boltman wrote: ↑
Mon 13 May 2019 1:26 PM

A ram positioned outside the outer doors and aimed at the inner doors will successfully be able to attack them, however that means the ram, and its occupants are then in ling of sight of the respawning guards and so will be attacked. So the problems you are facing are entirely of your own making, stop exploiting LoS issues with the guards and place your rams properly.
[/quote]

Unfortunately , even when placed outside the building you can't use a ram, keeps saying that the door is too far away to hit. We placed 4 different rams in 4 places and wasn't able to hit the inner door with any. Once it got in range to hit, you would be forcibly removed from the ram and you couldn't get back on.
[/quote]
Hmmmm

Strange. then fair enough I apologise for my comment in regards to exploiting LoS. The rams should work from outside, as they do at Crim, Nott, Eras...

Mon 13 May 2019 3:22 PM by florin

Hejjin wrote: ↑
Mon 13 May 2019 1:25 PM
florin wrote: ↑
Mon 13 May 2019 1:05 PM
Hejjin wrote: ↑
Mon 13 May 2019 12:42 PM
A claimed keep at max level (4) can still have the commander soloed by 1 assassin. As for defending it, I spent most of last week on my scout in Cathal valley, other than the initial weekend, every single keep take that I was in the zone for was performed by an assassin. There were not enough attacks on the keep to justify a defence by even one person, let alone several. Due to the poor keep design, a sole defender either has the choice of staying with the commander in the hope of preventing a single assassin taking it, or stay on the walls watching for frontal assaults whilst doing regular patrols back to the keep tower to determine if the commander was ok as for some reason I kept losing the commander and other guards when I had them targeted, a number of times the keep was taken in between my patrols. Orsea keep is very poorly designed.

you keep saying poor keep design - they are working as intended as are Nott, Crim and Eras. What's the problem with a keep switching hands especially when there are not enough attackers or defenders to mount a proper siege?
From a historical perspective, the keeps are incredibly poorly designed, but this a is a game, so I won't bother pointing out all the architectural defensive deficiencies and instead will ask the question, can the keep commanders of Nott, Crim and Eras be soloed by an assassin? The answer is no, even in their non-upgraded form, whereas Orsea can, that is what makes it a poor design, it is trivial for an assassin to climb the walls and then kill a very easy tower commander all with zero risk of other guards adding to the fight.

If the keeps were not so easy to take by 1 assassin, then keep assaults would be more inclined to happen, there were a number of them over the first weekend the zone was added, and then it was discovered that assassins could solo take the keep and the need for assaults and keep defence vanished.

Got it - simple fix then, raise the level of the commander to where it requires more effort. Although a group of Infs and minstrel with spread heals below might still be able to pull it off.

Mon 13 May 2019 4:13 PM by Hejjin

florin wrote: ↑
Mon 13 May 2019 3:22 PM
Hejjin wrote: ↑
Mon 13 May 2019 1:25 PM
florin wrote: ↑
Mon 13 May 2019 1:05 PM
you keep saying poor keep design - they are working as intended as are Nott, Crim and Eras. What's the problem with a keep switching hands especially when there are not enough attackers or defenders to mount a proper siege?
From a historical perspective, the keeps are incredibly poorly designed, but this a is a game, so I won't bother pointing out all the architectural defensive deficiencies and instead will ask the question, can the keep commanders of Nott, Crim and Eras be soloed by an assassin? The answer is no, even in their non-upgraded form, whereas Orsea can, that is what makes it a poor design, it is trivial for an assassin to climb the walls and then kill a very easy tower commander all with zero risk of other guards adding to the fight.

If the keeps were not so easy to take by 1 assassin, then keep assaults would be more inclined to happen, there were a number of them over the first weekend the zone was added, and then it was discovered that assassins could solo take the keep and the need for assaults and keep defence vanished.

Got it - simple fix then, raise the level of the commander to where it requires more effort. Although a group of Infs and minstrel with spread heals below might still be able to pull it off.

Indeed, the first time the keep was attacked by a group not using siege rams on the opening weekend it was a group of hibs, with a NS in the tower on the level 4 commander and the Hib healer using AoE heals to keep him alive, but that was more noticeable than a solo assassin, so I and others were able to attack and kill them.

Of course moving the inner doors to the keep tower itself would negate that tactic, and then would force an actual siege and assault on the keep, but I am not sure if that is possible, so raising the level of the keep commander to at least Red to 39 would be an improvement, and perhaps Purple for the lvl 4 upgraded commander.