Remove stoicism, make determination cost more for hybrids, lower CC duration on players overall

Right now we have a situation where a tank with Det 9 and stoicism simply shrugs off any kind of magical CC unless it's a single target mezz/root from a primary CC class. Hybrid tanks are not far away with Det 9 but it's manageable.
Healers and Casters will stand forever in comparison.

My suggestion is that stoicism gets removed but determination remains the same for those who got stoicism now.
Hybrid classes and other classes who can spec determination should have to pay the normal amount of points (1,1,2,3,3,5,5,7,7)
All classes receive a 15% lesser duration on CC.

This would make for a more inclusive experience for people who play healer/caster classes and the changes for a stoicism tank will not be very big, a hybrid class might even make it to the same level but have to pay dearly for it.

Sat 11 May 2019 9:14 PM by Kampfar

Yeah and buff casters, dem nukes so weak. Server is really in favor of melee/tanks.

Sat 11 May 2019 9:59 PM by ColdHands

Red single mez vs Warrior with det 9 and aom3 or so lasts about 7 seconds.

Sat 11 May 2019 10:02 PM by Pendalith

Heavy tanks should have stoi and hybrids not, i like it the way it is. To remove stoi from heavy tanks would be a bad idea at an already underplayed class type.

Sun 12 May 2019 9:56 AM by Wintil

You have a good start. But don't make determination cost more for hybrids. Make it disapear
Savages / Skald / Warden / Champions / Stealthers / Friars and so on all with det is unbalanced.
How do you want to compete against melee group when they don't have ressources to manage (Infinite endu cause of pots), no variance on melee dmg (Imagine what happens when a savage quad) and you can't CC them.
One of the strongest features of Hib was Baseline stun. On this serv with everyone with Det9 + Resist it's worthless, and to compensate this strong spell, there is no roots on pure Hib casters.
There is two main problems for the balance of this server :
-Det 9 on everyone
-Regen endu pots that makes Endu an infinite ressources. (Imagine Casters without Power to manage)

Sun 12 May 2019 4:38 PM by Zzang

Wintil wrote: ↑
Sun 12 May 2019 9:56 AM
You have a good start. But don't make determination cost more for hybrids. Make it disapear
Savages / Skald / Warden / Champions / Stealthers / Friars and so on all with det is unbalanced.
How do you want to compete against melee group when they don't have ressources to manage (Infinite endu cause of pots), no variance on melee dmg (Imagine what happens when a savage quad) and you can't CC them.
One of the strongest features of Hib was Baseline stun. On this serv with everyone with Det9 + Resist it's worthless, and to compensate this strong spell, there is no roots on pure Hib casters.
There is two main problems for the balance of this server :
-Det 9 on everyone
-Regen endu pots that makes Endu an infinite ressources. (Imagine Casters without Power to manage)

Endu pots are not as powerful as one might think since they provide just the amount that you can sprint and not lose endu. If you have to sprint and continuously spam styles you run out of endu pretty fast. And I don't think Tank groups are that overpowered vs caster groups except they are easier to play. If you change the value of points needed for det 9 from 22 to 34 Hybrids would maybe consider specing less than 9.

My main point is that if you play a healer or caster and get mezzed by a primary CC class you will stand in it until the fight is over unless you purge or get demezzed. Root/tangler spam is also very frustrating. 15% less duration would make for less dead time and I don't think it would impact very much on the high RR caster groups people whine about.

Sun 12 May 2019 4:42 PM by Dariussdars

Wintil wrote: ↑
Sun 12 May 2019 9:56 AM
You have a good start. But don't make determination cost more for hybrids. Make it disapear
Savages / Skald / Warden / Champions / Stealthers / Friars and so on all with det is unbalanced.
How do you want to compete against melee group when they don't have ressources to manage (Infinite endu cause of pots), no variance on melee dmg (Imagine what happens when a savage quad) and you can't CC them.
One of the strongest features of Hib was Baseline stun. On this serv with everyone with Det9 + Resist it's worthless, and to compensate this strong spell, there is no roots on pure Hib casters.
There is two main problems for the balance of this server :
-Det 9 on everyone
-Regen endu pots that makes Endu an infinite ressources. (Imagine Casters without Power to manage)

It's almost as if you think no one plays a caster out in RvR. Stun/nuke/nuke is deadly if purge is down, hence why every single Hib nuker has stun bound to half their keyboard. Even the leet Hib 8 mans stun/nuke/nuke every single solo visi they come across.

Sun 12 May 2019 5:12 PM by Luluko

No there are plenty of casters out there and tanks are quite useless in zerg vs zerg if the numbers are equal and no sites makes a move to push, at least as a caster you can kill/cc from range if you have a problem with det tanks use disease and invite some melees to your grp which can peel with snare styles

Sun 12 May 2019 5:36 PM by Roks

ColdHands wrote: ↑
Sat 11 May 2019 9:59 PM
Red single mez vs Warrior with det 9 and aom3 or so lasts about 7 seconds.

And a caster can do 400-700 non crit damage ever 1.5 seconds.

I think heavy tanks need more than just stoicism. They need their live updates like pbaoe taunt/interrupt, abs grp buff, spell resist bonuses, etc.

Mon 13 May 2019 8:24 AM by Sepplord

ColdHands wrote: ↑
Sat 11 May 2019 9:59 PM
Red single mez vs Warrior with det 9 and aom3 or so lasts about 7 seconds.

I'm skeptical you are right, since you mention AoM, which doesn't reduce CC
Even if that was right....what is the point?

Mon 13 May 2019 8:49 AM by Drominchen

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Mon 13 May 2019 8:24 AM
ColdHands wrote: ↑
Sat 11 May 2019 9:59 PM
Red single mez vs Warrior with det 9 and aom3 or so lasts about 7 seconds.

I'm skeptical you are right, since you mention AoM, which doesn't reduce CC
Even if that was right....what is the point?

red bard single mezz is 70 sec * (1-0,42) yellow body resist and 26% temped * (1-0,25) stoicism * (1-0,55) det 9 = 13,7025 sec = 13 sec or 14 sec if phoenix does always round up

Edit: 13,7025 sec * (1) aom 3 secondary resists but does not reduce CC on Phoenix !!! = 13,7025 = 13 sec or 14 sec if phoenix does always round up

that is without any racial resists in body and about what I had remembered from playing full det blademaster back in the day (around 15 sec for red mezz).

and for the people thinking good 8man do that OPed base line cast stun vs det tanks:
9 sec * 0,5 (red heat resists in mid) or 0,74 (no heat resist in alb) * 0,75 * 0,45 = 1,52 (mid) or 2,25 (alb) = 2-3 sec that is 1 - 2 casts and just a free immunity making the work of your peeler that much harder that you should get an instant kick if you do that more than once.

Mon 13 May 2019 8:58 AM by Sepplord

Drominchen wrote: ↑
Mon 13 May 2019 8:49 AM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Mon 13 May 2019 8:24 AM
ColdHands wrote: ↑
Sat 11 May 2019 9:59 PM
Red single mez vs Warrior with det 9 and aom3 or so lasts about 7 seconds.

I'm skeptical you are right, since you mention AoM, which doesn't reduce CC
Even if that was right....what is the point?

red bard single mezz is 70 sec * (1-0,42) yellow body resist and 26% temped * (1-0,25) stoicism * (1-0,55) det 9 = 13,7025 sec = 13 sec or 14 sec if phoenix does always round up

13,7025 sec * (1-0,05) aom 3 secondary resists = 13,017375 = 13 sec or 14 sec if phoenix does always round up

that is without any racial resists in body and about what I had remembered from playing full det blademaster back in the day (around 15 sec for red mezz).

and for the people thinking good 8man do that OPed base line cast stun vs det tanks:
9 sec * 0,58 * 0,75 * 0,45 = 1,76 = 2 sec that is 1 - 2 casts and just a free immunity making the work of your peeler that much harder that you should get an instant kick if you do that more than once.

Again: AOM doesn't reduce CC

Mon 13 May 2019 9:09 AM by Drominchen

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Mon 13 May 2019 8:58 AM
Drominchen wrote: ↑
Mon 13 May 2019 8:49 AM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Mon 13 May 2019 8:24 AM
I'm skeptical you are right, since you mention AoM, which doesn't reduce CC
Even if that was right....what is the point?

red bard single mezz is 70 sec * (1-0,42) yellow body resist and 26% temped * (1-0,25) stoicism * (1-0,55) det 9 = 13,7025 sec = 13 sec or 14 sec if phoenix does always round up

13,7025 sec * (1-0,05) aom 3 secondary resists = 13,017375 = 13 sec or 14 sec if phoenix does always round up

that is without any racial resists in body and about what I had remembered from playing full det blademaster back in the day (around 15 sec for red mezz).

and for the people thinking good 8man do that OPed base line cast stun vs det tanks:
9 sec * 0,58 * 0,75 * 0,45 = 1,76 = 2 sec that is 1 - 2 casts and just a free immunity making the work of your peeler that much harder that you should get an instant kick if you do that more than once.

Again: AOM doesn't reduce CC

on live it did not iirc but I think I read here somewhere that it does reduce CC on Phoenix?! But even then it is negligible

edit: found schafs post it does not any longer reduce CC here

Mon 13 May 2019 5:45 PM by ColdHands

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Mon 13 May 2019 8:24 AM
ColdHands wrote: ↑
Sat 11 May 2019 9:59 PM
Red single mez vs Warrior with det 9 and aom3 or so lasts about 7 seconds.

I'm skeptical you are right, since you mention AoM, which doesn't reduce CC
Even if that was right....what is the point?

Pretty damn easy to test, and if you have ever seen one of your tanks sit full duration, you should have a good idea that this is right.
I know that I am right, because we just tested it last week. The point is to demonstrate that you can expect to a det tank to sit in a full durration mez for significantly less duration than slam. There is no claim there that AOM is having any extra effect in this situation, as that is not the specific mechanic we were testing.

Sun 19 May 2019 11:12 PM by ulf

remove stun , mez, snare too