Can we please just remove this idiotic Realm Ability? - How is it fair to give classes a passive 50% unstyled swing when hit damageshield? - This is the stuff that makes bad players being able to kill much better players in few seconds and theres no real counter to it if ur a melee - especially on Friars and Zerkers with 2H - It's utter disgusting. And now I begin to see Merc abuse it aswell, it's a stupid RA' it takes no skill and needs to be in the very least looked at. It can't be a passive ability, if you put it on a timer that shows when it's being used and it then have a downtime - then np / but this bullshit has to have an end. It ruins solo play!
Reflex Attack #2.
Started 5 May 2019
by
thanatosdaoc
in
Suggestions
Sun 5 May 2019 10:40 AM
by
mhenfhis
thanatosdaoc wrote: ↑Sun 5 May 2019 9:58 AMCan we please just remove this idiotic Realm Ability? - How is it fair to give classes a passive 50% unstyled swing when hit damageshield? - This is the stuff that makes bad players being able to kill much better players in few seconds and theres no real counter to it if ur a melee - especially on Friars and Zerkers with 2H - It's utter disgusting. And now I begin to see Merc abuse it aswell, it's a stupid RA' it takes no skill and needs to be in the very least looked at. It can't be a passive ability, if you put it on a timer that shows when it's being used and it then have a downtime - then np / but this bullshit has to have an end. It ruins solo play!
Your counter is run also RA
Sun 5 May 2019 10:42 AM
by
Druth
I know people don't care about data, I mean when we have feelings why bother with facts?
But there is no statistics suggesting berserker, friar and mercenaries are OP.
Or let me rephrase that. People like winning, and so they like playing OP classes (ex. assassins when solo, savages in groups etc...), and thus you will see a natural migration towards OP/easy classes. This trend has not happened to these three classes, and until it does all people have are feely feelings of paper not beating scissor.
But there is no statistics suggesting berserker, friar and mercenaries are OP.
Or let me rephrase that. People like winning, and so they like playing OP classes (ex. assassins when solo, savages in groups etc...), and thus you will see a natural migration towards OP/easy classes. This trend has not happened to these three classes, and until it does all people have are feely feelings of paper not beating scissor.
Sun 5 May 2019 9:57 PM
by
Milchschnidde
Oh played with a friend and we both died on a friar because of reflex atack => its too OP there is no countermessure against that skill other then ranged / spells. it shouldnt repel every blow of a dual wielder with a 2 hand unstyled hit, its reflecting/ countering too hard. there should be a natural delay or cut off in dmg.
They should maybe increase its base chance to counter but reduce its damge up to 50%.. it would still hit hard, i mean common an unstyled hit of up to 300-400DMG every hit? Is actual too insane
They should maybe increase its base chance to counter but reduce its damge up to 50%.. it would still hit hard, i mean common an unstyled hit of up to 300-400DMG every hit? Is actual too insane
Mon 6 May 2019 11:50 AM
by
Seal
i absolutelly agree! remove reflex attack and give Twf instead (so i can blow 10 ppl instead of 2 with it)
Mon 6 May 2019 12:24 PM
by
Warlay
merc and friar has it, maybe give it to svg aswell ? 
Mon 6 May 2019 1:00 PM
by
kiectred
Did you fight someone who wasn't busy XPing by mistake and get destroyed?
Mon 6 May 2019 1:00 PM
by
kiectred
Milchschnidde wrote: ↑Sun 5 May 2019 9:57 PMOh played with a friend and we both died on a friar because of reflex atack => its too OP there is no countermessure against that skill other then ranged / spells. it shouldnt repel every blow of a dual wielder with a 2 hand unstyled hit, its reflecting/ countering too hard. there should be a natural delay or cut off in dmg.
They should maybe increase its base chance to counter but reduce its damge up to 50%.. it would still hit hard, i mean common an unstyled hit of up to 300-400DMG every hit? Is actual too insane
If you're taking unstyled hits for 300-400 you need to either:
1) put your armor on
2) stop lying
Mon 6 May 2019 6:03 PM
by
chryso
It only works if you attack them.
BTW, are you a stealther?
BTW, are you a stealther?
Mon 6 May 2019 6:33 PM
by
Amp_Phetamine
Tears! Tears for everyone! Enjoy that /release macro OP.
Mon 6 May 2019 7:13 PM
by
mudoxiii
kiectred wrote: ↑Mon 6 May 2019 1:00 PMMilchschnidde wrote: ↑Sun 5 May 2019 9:57 PMOh played with a friend and we both died on a friar because of reflex atack => its too OP there is no countermessure against that skill other then ranged / spells. it shouldnt repel every blow of a dual wielder with a 2 hand unstyled hit, its reflecting/ countering too hard. there should be a natural delay or cut off in dmg.
They should maybe increase its base chance to counter but reduce its damge up to 50%.. it would still hit hard, i mean common an unstyled hit of up to 300-400DMG every hit? Is actual too insane
If you're taking unstyled hits for 300-400 you need to either:
1) put your armor on
2) stop lying
When a dual wielder hits a zerk with both weapons he can get hit in return with 4 unstyled weapon attacks since LA swings every time (2MH+2OH). Reflex attack also has a 100% chance to do crit damage as well when vendo is up.
With a dual wielder against a friar, it could be 2 unstyled hits with the staff reflected back with one round of combat. Considering damage type vulnerabilities and low absorption armor, 300-400 damage each melee round reflected back on a dual wielder is completely possible and even 500-600+ a swing against a vendo'd zerker is not out of the question.
Mon 6 May 2019 7:37 PM
by
Horus
In all my years of DaoC live and various free shards, I have never seen reflex attack (or TWF) commented on so much. Why so here? Are they implemented in a certain custom way that is producing unforeseen consequences? Did people just figure out how to abuse them where they have not in the past?
Mon 6 May 2019 7:55 PM
by
Amp_Phetamine
Horus wrote: ↑Mon 6 May 2019 7:37 PMIn all my years of DaoC live and various free shards, I have never seen reflex attack (or TWF) commented on so much. Why so here? Are they implemented in a certain custom way that is producing unforeseen consequences? Did people just figure out how to abuse them where they have not in the past?
No, it's the exact same reflex attack that has existed until recently on Live.
People just trying to QQ about why they died. Nothing new.
Mon 6 May 2019 8:11 PM
by
jelzinga_EU
Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑Mon 6 May 2019 7:55 PMHorus wrote: ↑Mon 6 May 2019 7:37 PMIn all my years of DaoC live and various free shards, I have never seen reflex attack (or TWF) commented on so much. Why so here? Are they implemented in a certain custom way that is producing unforeseen consequences? Did people just figure out how to abuse them where they have not in the past?
No, it's the exact same reflex attack that has existed until recently on Live.
People just trying to QQ about why they died. Nothing new.
The problem is a bit more complicated.
a) Back in OF - we had Old Frontiers RA's where Reflex Attack on friars was an active RA.
b) With TOA and Catacombs --> New Frontiers Reflex Attack was passive, but people generally had 50% more HP due to buffbots, CL's and stat overcaps. Furthermore, they had access to artifacts which you could use to counter some of the effects (Battler absorb, Malice Axe arrogance)
Specific for friars:
c) Friars have the equivalent of their own buffbot in their Enhance-line. Combined with a STR/CON charge they are actually fully "buffbotted"-statwise
d) Friars have had a WS-bumb
e) AFAIK friars had no offensive heal-proc in this era (not 100% sure)
f) Friars have a suitable slow staff in here which procs a 150 point ablative and can trigger from Reflex Attacks - meaning their survivability goes up by a lot
Mon 6 May 2019 8:24 PM
by
Saroi
Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑Mon 6 May 2019 7:55 PMHorus wrote: ↑Mon 6 May 2019 7:37 PMIn all my years of DaoC live and various free shards, I have never seen reflex attack (or TWF) commented on so much. Why so here? Are they implemented in a certain custom way that is producing unforeseen consequences? Did people just figure out how to abuse them where they have not in the past?
No, it's the exact same reflex attack that has existed until recently on Live.
People just trying to QQ about why they died. Nothing new.
It is the same with everyone having reflex attack. The RA might work as it used to back in the day with the procc hits but not the damage.
But on this server there have been so many custom changes. Friars got their damage tables buffed.
LA Damage has been increased. Merc/BM Offhand hit changes been increased.
If you factor that all in with the reflex attack, the damage is just ridiculous high combared to back in the day and definitely not live worthy.
Mon 6 May 2019 8:47 PM
by
cere2
IIRC it was reduced on Live within the last 2 years as well.
Tue 7 May 2019 5:07 PM
by
Milchschnidde
Yes we were nightshade and ranger. We encountered a bug that causes reflex atack to trigger while somebody is shooting on the RA user while he is allready in combat, but we couldnt replicate that with a blademaster and dummies.
Allready opend a ticket in the Bug tracker.
Tue 7 May 2019 5:10 PM
by
Milchschnidde
kiectred wrote: ↑Mon 6 May 2019 1:00 PMMilchschnidde wrote: ↑Sun 5 May 2019 9:57 PMOh played with a friend and we both died on a friar because of reflex atack => its too OP there is no countermessure against that skill other then ranged / spells. it shouldnt repel every blow of a dual wielder with a 2 hand unstyled hit, its reflecting/ countering too hard. there should be a natural delay or cut off in dmg.
They should maybe increase its base chance to counter but reduce its damge up to 50%.. it would still hit hard, i mean common an unstyled hit of up to 300-400DMG every hit? Is actual too insane
If you're taking unstyled hits for 300-400 you need to either:
1) put your armor on
2) stop lying
I did not - The Friar was High RR, He used purge and IP but we couldnt kill him and we died while trying to hit him.
Reflex atack also seem to trigger Buffed procs, not shure. We felt the self healing had trigged too often.
Tue 7 May 2019 5:20 PM
by
Yokahu
I have a RR5 friar and I’ve never hit by 300-400 with an unstyled swing; the highest I’ve seen is 262 against leather (no crit). So either you are not templated or a necro Debuffed ur AF and u didn’t notice.Milchschnidde wrote: ↑Tue 7 May 2019 5:10 PMkiectred wrote: ↑Mon 6 May 2019 1:00 PMMilchschnidde wrote: ↑Sun 5 May 2019 9:57 PMOh played with a friend and we both died on a friar because of reflex atack => its too OP there is no countermessure against that skill other then ranged / spells. it shouldnt repel every blow of a dual wielder with a 2 hand unstyled hit, its reflecting/ countering too hard. there should be a natural delay or cut off in dmg.
They should maybe increase its base chance to counter but reduce its damge up to 50%.. it would still hit hard, i mean common an unstyled hit of up to 300-400DMG every hit? Is actual too insane
If you're taking unstyled hits for 300-400 you need to either:
1) put your armor on
2) stop lying
I did not - The Friar was High RR, He used purge and IP but we couldnt kill him and we died while trying to hit him.
Reflex atack also seem to trigger Buffed procs, not shure. We felt the self healing had trigged too often.
Tue 7 May 2019 5:44 PM
by
Amp_Phetamine
To everyone who's died to reflex attack, I made you something:
Tue 7 May 2019 6:50 PM
by
chryso
I wonder if I can kill these guys with a pet damage shield....
Tue 7 May 2019 7:00 PM
by
Turano
from 50% to 33% is a 17% reduction
4 of 3 people are not good at math
Tue 7 May 2019 7:19 PM
by
Saroi
Turano wrote: ↑Tue 7 May 2019 7:00 PMfrom 50% to 33% is a 17% reduction
4 of 3 people are not good at math
My comment wasn't meant as the whole 5 points in Reflex. They reduced the proc chance to 6-7% per skillpoint. Maybe some poor writing from me but not to hard to see 6-7% times 5 to be around 33%.
Atleast you could somehow make a useless comment while trying to look like a smartass.
Tue 7 May 2019 8:05 PM
by
Turano
I guess now I am misunderstood, I didn't mean to be rude hereSaroi wrote: ↑Tue 7 May 2019 7:19 PM
My comment wasn't meant as the whole 5 points in Reflex. They reduced the proc chance to 6-7% per skillpoint. Maybe some poor writing from me but not to hard to see 6-7% times 5 to be around 33%.
Atleast you could somehow make a useless comment while trying to look like a smartass.
Tue 7 May 2019 8:16 PM
by
Saroi
Turano wrote: ↑Tue 7 May 2019 8:05 PMI guess now I am misunderstood, I didn't mean to be rude hereSaroi wrote: ↑Tue 7 May 2019 7:19 PMTurano wrote: ↑Tue 7 May 2019 7:00 PMfrom 50% to 33% is a 17% reduction
4 of 3 people are not good at math
My comment wasn't meant as the whole 5 points in Reflex. They reduced the proc chance to 6-7% per skillpoint. Maybe some poor writing from me but not to hard to see 6-7% times 5 to be around 33%.
Atleast you could somehow make a useless comment while trying to look like a smartass.
Well then I am sorry too
Tue 7 May 2019 9:03 PM
by
cortexqc
solution :
- Give dodger RA back again to friar and zerk (and why vw too) but not to assassins classes.
- nerf Reflex attack from 50% at lvl 5 for 30 realm points to 33% for 20 points.
This way they can trade the 10 points difference for more dogde.
= more chance to friar or zerk (vw) to evade like old 1.65 but less chance to counter attack when damaged.
little more defense, less offensive power from reflex attack (good balance).
- Give dodger RA back again to friar and zerk (and why vw too
) but not to assassins classes.- nerf Reflex attack from 50% at lvl 5 for 30 realm points to 33% for 20 points.
This way they can trade the 10 points difference for more dogde.
= more chance to friar or zerk (vw) to evade like old 1.65 but less chance to counter attack when damaged.
little more defense, less offensive power from reflex attack (good balance).
Wed 8 May 2019 6:00 AM
by
Milchschnidde
Yokahu wrote: ↑Tue 7 May 2019 5:20 PMI have a RR5 friar and I’ve never hit by 300-400 with an unstyled swing; the highest I’ve seen is 262 against leather (no crit). So either you are not templated or a necro Debuffed ur AF and u didn’t notice.Milchschnidde wrote: ↑Tue 7 May 2019 5:10 PMkiectred wrote: ↑Mon 6 May 2019 1:00 PMIf you're taking unstyled hits for 300-400 you need to either:
1) put your armor on
2) stop lying
I did not - The Friar was High RR, He used purge and IP but we couldnt kill him and we died while trying to hit him.
Reflex atack also seem to trigger Buffed procs, not shure. We felt the self healing had trigged too often.
No it was no necro debuffing, it was a friar i have no logs unfortainly and yes 300 dmg unstyled istnt impossible with the lowest staff speed and aug dex/str and mopain a friar could easy reach that. 400dmg where his styled hits. nvm its still too powerfull it needs some natural delay or limit, for example procs cannot trigger and critical hits shouldnt also not trigger with reflex atack.Or it should only trigger when the Reflex atack user is hited and not on evade or parry.
They should definatly decide what its more important to the friar those custom changes made the friar a solo beast he allready has been a solo beast with evade 5 and his styles and absorb/armor factor - beeing an assassin nightmare is okay is, but beating solo more then 1 player at the same time is too powerfull not to mention static tempest and ip = GG also refelx atack should not trigger while he is stuned....
Wed 8 May 2019 7:57 AM
by
Kadorna
Milchschnidde wrote: ↑Wed 8 May 2019 6:00 AMYokahu wrote: ↑Tue 7 May 2019 5:20 PMI have a RR5 friar and I’ve never hit by 300-400 with an unstyled swing; the highest I’ve seen is 262 against leather (no crit). So either you are not templated or a necro Debuffed ur AF and u didn’t notice.Milchschnidde wrote: ↑Tue 7 May 2019 5:10 PMI did not - The Friar was High RR, He used purge and IP but we couldnt kill him and we died while trying to hit him.
Reflex atack also seem to trigger Buffed procs, not shure. We felt the self healing had trigged too often.
No it was no necro debuffing, it was a friar i have no logs unfortainly and yes 300 dmg unstyled istnt impossible with the lowest staff speed and aug dex/str and mopain a friar could easy reach that. 400dmg where his styled hits. nvm its still too powerfull it needs some natural delay or limit, for example procs cannot trigger and critical hits shouldnt also not trigger with reflex atack.Or it should only trigger when the Reflex atack user is hited and not on evade or parry.
They should definatly decide what its more important to the friar those custom changes made the friar a solo beast he allready has been a solo beast with evade 5 and his styles and absorb/armor factor - beeing an assassin nightmare is okay is, but beating solo more then 1 player at the same time is too powerfull not to mention static tempest and ip = GG also refelx atack should not trigger while he is stuned....
You said that friar was high RR and wasted purge and IP (maybe ST too??)=> looks fair that a high RR player that used all his actives RAs was able to win vs 2.....also RA is pretty effective Vs dual wielders.
Question: you were NS an ranger => you could kite a friar easy, ns snare (garrote+disease) while ranger keep shooting from range....instead of kite u engaged to a high RR class who destroy dual wielders on melee combat => and the conclusion is that friars are OP and need be nerfed....NICE!!!
Wed 8 May 2019 10:41 AM
by
Milchschnidde
The friar has a custom back snare style, so you cant escape.... my friend also used purge and my ranger also used ip.. its still to powerfull in performance, the friar has an overall to high utility compared to other chars with the custom changes, why did they improve his melee skills and support skills? Its too much. How ever they need to balance reflex atack for the friar. My friend tested his blademaster only 1 unstyled weapon hit did strike back ignoring left hand ... while the friar hits 2 handed. The dmg of the friar reflex atacb should be halved would still be an avarage dmg of 150-180dmg per strike not counting critical hits
Wed 8 May 2019 10:59 AM
by
Seal
Milchschnidde wrote: ↑Wed 8 May 2019 10:41 AMThe friar has a custom back snare style, so you cant escape.... my friend also used purge and my ranger also used ip.. its still to powerfull in performance, the friar has an overall to high utility compared to other chars with the custom changes, why did they improve his melee skills and support skills? Its too much. How ever they need to balance reflex atack for the friar. My friend tested his blademaster only 1 unstyled weapon hit did strike back ignoring left hand ... while the friar hits 2 handed. The dmg of the friar reflex atacb should be halved would still be an avarage dmg of 150-180dmg per strike not counting critical hits
question : you know how celtic dual work ? (due to your idea of ns having to full melee fight a friar probably i've the answer already but is a good question nonetheless).
Wed 8 May 2019 2:35 PM
by
Amp_Phetamine
Milchschnidde wrote: ↑Wed 8 May 2019 10:41 AMThe friar has a custom back snare style, so you cant escape.... my friend also used purge and my ranger also used ip.. its still to powerfull in performance, the friar has an overall to high utility compared to other chars with the custom changes, why did they improve his melee skills and support skills? Its too much. How ever they need to balance reflex atack for the friar. My friend tested his blademaster only 1 unstyled weapon hit did strike back ignoring left hand ... while the friar hits 2 handed. The dmg of the friar reflex atacb should be halved would still be an avarage dmg of 150-180dmg per strike not counting critical hits
Great story. How about learning to play first.
Wed 8 May 2019 3:01 PM
by
chryso
I love the idea that there is a stealther killing toon. I think each realm should have one.
Wed 8 May 2019 10:53 PM
by
Milchschnidde
chryso wrote: ↑Wed 8 May 2019 3:01 PMI love the idea that there is a stealther killing toon. I think each realm should have one.
Its not about killing stealther such a friar will kill everything else in melee combat. IT never was intended to work like it works currently on phoenix. It has nothing to do with learn to play etc. You never played against a friar cause you are playing i guess albion. Friar has allwasys been a strong 1vs1 fighter no daubt, but due to custom changes he is “god/S“ tier which suggest the balance is not even.
Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑Wed 8 May 2019 2:35 PMMilchschnidde wrote: ↑Wed 8 May 2019 10:41 AMThe friar has a custom back snare style, so you cant escape.... my friend also used purge and my ranger also used ip.. its still to powerfull in performance, the friar has an overall to high utility compared to other chars with the custom changes, why did they improve his melee skills and support skills? Its too much. How ever they need to balance reflex atack for the friar. My friend tested his blademaster only 1 unstyled weapon hit did strike back ignoring left hand ... while the friar hits 2 handed. The dmg of the friar reflex atacb should be halved would still be an avarage dmg of 150-180dmg per strike not counting critical hits
Great story. How about learning to play first.
Spamming learn to play etc is no constructive discussion it is just trolling.
Wed 8 May 2019 11:40 PM
by
Hejjin
Aug Str on a Friar? Other than impact how much we can carry, it does nothing for us. To have RA + ST + IP means a large investment in realm points. Given how overpowered RA supposedly is, and how great friars are at soloing, how come there are only 3 Friars in the top 250 for the last 48 hours, 2 for last week and 4 for this week?Milchschnidde wrote: ↑Wed 8 May 2019 6:00 AMNo it was no necro debuffing, it was a friar i have no logs unfortainly and yes 300 dmg unstyled istnt impossible with the lowest staff speed andaug dex/str and mopain a friar could easy reach that. 400dmg where his styled hits. nvm its still too powerfull it needs some natural delay or limit, for example procs cannot trigger and critical hits shouldnt also not trigger with reflex atack.Or it should only trigger when the Reflex atack user is hited and not on evade or parry.
They should definatly decide what its more important to the friar those custom changes made the friar a solo beast he allready has been a solo beast with evade 5 and his styles and absorb/armor factor - beeing an assassin nightmare is okay is, but beating solo more then 1 player at the same time is too powerfull not to mention static tempest and ip = GG also refelx atack should not trigger while he is stuned....
Thu 9 May 2019 1:51 AM
by
Seal
Milchschnidde wrote: ↑Wed 8 May 2019 10:53 PMchryso wrote: ↑Wed 8 May 2019 3:01 PMI love the idea that there is a stealther killing toon. I think each realm should have one.
Its not about killing stealther such a friar will kill everything else in melee combat. IT never was intended to work like it works currently on phoenix. It has nothing to do with learn to play etc. You never played against a friar cause you are playing i guess albion. Friar has allwasys been a strong 1vs1 fighter no daubt, but due to custom changes he is “god/S“ tier which suggest the balance is not even.
you talk about god/S tier ok.... let's do a little list of the class that spank a reflex attack friar unless they faceplant on him blindly in melee :
Mid :
- Skald (can kite - aotg - sos plenty of tools to actually win)
- Warrior (engage use it - love it - learn it)
- Thane (way too many way to win it doesnt even need to try hard)
- Spiritmaster (a pet in passive would practically just win the fight straightaway)
- Bonedancer (should i really explain it here?)
- Hunter (shoot shoot shoot, once the friar come close after his taunt, kite, his only other rupt is on a charge item that cant avoid the hunter to go back in stealth again)
- Shaman (disease ista, kite, if friar tries to clean himself just bolt him and dot fight over)
Hib :
- Nightshade (pa, kite, dd)
- Ranger (see hunter, not even totally needed here)
- Valewalker (on last hit, put snare, kite, kill on range)
- Enchanter (pet do ur work just move around)
- Champion (not even funny)
- Battlebard/Battledruid (not used here, doesnt mean he cant win right away anyway)
- Warden
- Hero (see warrior)
The only tricky stealther that may have a problem is Sb which guess what : DOESNT HAVE TO decide to pick a fight with a friar in the first place.... it's his own choise....
i wont even go throu the whole list of possible albion character still better on 1v1, so again where is this S tier ? each time i get people faceplanting on me i thank them from the bottom of my heart but that doesnt mean is how they should've played their own class......
Thu 9 May 2019 5:36 AM
by
Sepplord
Seal wrote: ↑Thu 9 May 2019 1:51 AMyou talk about god/S tier ok.... let's do a little list of the class that spank a reflex attack friar unless they faceplant on him blindly in melee :
Mid :
[...]
- Warrior (engage use it - love it - learn it)
[...]
Could you elaborate? How does a warrior/Fian kill friars by engaging them? (serious question...just trying to become a better warrior
)So far i thought engage can only be used to stall a fight / block basically all arrows while i run towards archers / etc...
How do i use it VS friars?
Thu 9 May 2019 5:45 AM
by
kmark101
Milchschnidde wrote: ↑Wed 8 May 2019 10:41 AMThe friar has a custom back snare style, so you cant escape.... my friend also used purge and my ranger also used ip.. its still to powerfull in performance, the friar has an overall to high utility compared to other chars with the custom changes, why did they improve his melee skills and support skills? Its too much. How ever they need to balance reflex atack for the friar. My friend tested his blademaster only 1 unstyled weapon hit did strike back ignoring left hand ... while the friar hits 2 handed. The dmg of the friar reflex atacb should be halved would still be an avarage dmg of 150-180dmg per strike not counting critical hits
I can't help but wonder... why didn't you shoot him as ranger?! Also NS, could just move away and cast... there is no more miserable sight than a RA5 kited guy...
Thu 9 May 2019 5:48 AM
by
kmark101
thanatosdaoc wrote: ↑Sun 5 May 2019 9:58 AMCan we please just remove this idiotic Realm Ability? - How is it fair to give classes a passive 50% unstyled swing when hit damageshield? - This is the stuff that makes bad players being able to kill much better players in few seconds and theres no real counter to it if ur a melee - especially on Friars and Zerkers with 2H - It's utter disgusting. And now I begin to see Merc abuse it aswell, it's a stupid RA' it takes no skill and needs to be in the very least looked at. It can't be a passive ability, if you put it on a timer that shows when it's being used and it then have a downtime - then np / but this bullshit has to have an end. It ruins solo play!
Can we please just remove casters or animists? - How is it fair to give classes an instant 50% debuff then immediate quickcast dd spam? - This is the stuff that makes bad players being able to kill much better players in few seconds and theres no real counter to it if ur a melee - especially on all casters who can cast - It's utter disgusting. And now I begin to see enchanters abuse it aswell, it's a stupid system that takes no skill and needs to be in the very least looked at. It can't be a 3 seconds 2000 damage spellcast, if you put it on quickcast that shows when it's being spammed and it then should have a downtime between casts - then np / but this bullshit has to have an end. It ruins all play!
Thu 9 May 2019 5:55 AM
by
Seal
Sepplord wrote: ↑Thu 9 May 2019 5:36 AMSeal wrote: ↑Thu 9 May 2019 1:51 AMyou talk about god/S tier ok.... let's do a little list of the class that spank a reflex attack friar unless they faceplant on him blindly in melee :
Mid :
[...]
- Warrior (engage use it - love it - learn it)
[...]
Could you elaborate? How does a warrior/Fian kill friars by engaging them? (serious question...just trying to become a better warrior
So far i thought engage can only be used to stall a fight / block basically all arrows while i run towards archers / etc...
How do i use it VS friars?
we use 1.72 stuns immunity timers (5x actually 6x here, duration of the stun equal the immunity you get) you can wait immunity timers of stuns while the bleeding styles go throu (friar have no stun aside chain side and chain evade, second one which is 3 second) and answer by reactionary block styles in 2h (half the parry if the friar puked some points in there), warrior is on a factor 23 table (which is what you see as damage table, leading to around 9% more damage each hit just by class comparison, and this because friar got bump to valewalker factor 21 table...)
ps. sorry for the OT could've in fact just pmmed him the answer
Thu 9 May 2019 11:17 AM
by
Hejjin
I resemble that remark ;-). Sadly that happened to me last week, the NS realised he was not going to win in melee and instead kited me to death, absolutely annoying.kmark101 wrote: ↑Thu 9 May 2019 5:45 AMMilchschnidde wrote: ↑Wed 8 May 2019 10:41 AMThe friar has a custom back snare style, so you cant escape.... my friend also used purge and my ranger also used ip.. its still to powerfull in performance, the friar has an overall to high utility compared to other chars with the custom changes, why did they improve his melee skills and support skills? Its too much. How ever they need to balance reflex atack for the friar. My friend tested his blademaster only 1 unstyled weapon hit did strike back ignoring left hand ... while the friar hits 2 handed. The dmg of the friar reflex atacb should be halved would still be an avarage dmg of 150-180dmg per strike not counting critical hits
I can't help but wonder... why didn't you shoot him as ranger?!Also NS, could just move away and cast... there is no more miserable sight than a RA5 kited guy...
Thu 9 May 2019 1:27 PM
by
Amp_Phetamine
It's not trolling. You literally need to learn how to play first before commenting on how over powered something is or isn't.
Thu 9 May 2019 1:58 PM
by
Horus
Seal wrote: ↑Thu 9 May 2019 1:51 AMMilchschnidde wrote: ↑Wed 8 May 2019 10:53 PMchryso wrote: ↑Wed 8 May 2019 3:01 PMI love the idea that there is a stealther killing toon. I think each realm should have one.
Its not about killing stealther such a friar will kill everything else in melee combat. IT never was intended to work like it works currently on phoenix. It has nothing to do with learn to play etc. You never played against a friar cause you are playing i guess albion. Friar has allwasys been a strong 1vs1 fighter no daubt, but due to custom changes he is “god/S“ tier which suggest the balance is not even.
you talk about god/S tier ok.... let's do a little list of the class that spank a reflex attack friar unless they faceplant on him blindly in melee :
Mid :
- Skald (can kite - aotg - sos plenty of tools to actually win)
- Warrior (engage use it - love it - learn it)
- Thane (way too many way to win it doesnt even need to try hard)
- Spiritmaster (a pet in passive would practically just win the fight straightaway)
- Bonedancer (should i really explain it here?)
- Hunter (shoot shoot shoot, once the friar come close after his taunt, kite, his only other rupt is on a charge item that cant avoid the hunter to go back in stealth again)
- Shaman (disease ista, kite, if friar tries to clean himself just bolt him and dot fight over)
Hib :
- Nightshade (pa, kite, dd)
- Ranger (see hunter, not even totally needed here)
- Valewalker (on last hit, put snare, kite, kill on range)
- Enchanter (pet do ur work just move around)
- Champion (not even funny)
- Battlebard/Battledruid (not used here, doesnt mean he cant win right away anyway)
- Warden
- Hero (see warrior)
The only tricky stealther that may have a problem is Sb which guess what : DOESNT HAVE TO decide to pick a fight with a friar in the first place.... it's his own choise....
i wont even go throu the whole list of possible albion character still better on 1v1, so again where is this S tier ? each time i get people faceplanting on me i thank them from the bottom of my heart but that doesnt mean is how they should've played their own class......
I don't encounter enough friars to complain about them but you comments on Rangers are quite off base for the simple fact that everyone has perma sprint and friars can heal themselves. You will never be able to do enough dmg to kill them. Sure, you can prob run away but you won't ever kill them. Not sure about hunters. Maybe sending a pet in to annoy the friar when you are kiting might help...unsure.
Standard Friar fight goes like this...(for ranger)
1. Crit shot - if it hits seems to do low dmg for a caster target..tells you right there it is prob a friar.
2. Fire shot two - by this time friar is facing you and starting to charge. Shot is most likely evaded.
3. Line up shot 3 - perma sprinting friar is now in range of insta interrupt, You are interrupted, shot stopped.
4. Turn to to run for you life..start to kite. Friar heals himself. Now you are done. Your options are to continue to run and hope Friar gets bored chasing or take a chance at restealthing and hope they just don't continue sprinting to your spot and find you. Either way you just can't put enough damage down range to over come interrupts and self heals. Melee toe to toe is zero chance of success.
Thu 9 May 2019 2:23 PM
by
Seal
Horus wrote: ↑Thu 9 May 2019 1:58 PMSeal wrote: ↑Thu 9 May 2019 1:51 AMMilchschnidde wrote: ↑Wed 8 May 2019 10:53 PMIts not about killing stealther such a friar will kill everything else in melee combat. IT never was intended to work like it works currently on phoenix. It has nothing to do with learn to play etc. You never played against a friar cause you are playing i guess albion. Friar has allwasys been a strong 1vs1 fighter no daubt, but due to custom changes he is “god/S“ tier which suggest the balance is not even.
you talk about god/S tier ok.... let's do a little list of the class that spank a reflex attack friar unless they faceplant on him blindly in melee :
Mid :
- Skald (can kite - aotg - sos plenty of tools to actually win)
- Warrior (engage use it - love it - learn it)
- Thane (way too many way to win it doesnt even need to try hard)
- Spiritmaster (a pet in passive would practically just win the fight straightaway)
- Bonedancer (should i really explain it here?)
- Hunter (shoot shoot shoot, once the friar come close after his taunt, kite, his only other rupt is on a charge item that cant avoid the hunter to go back in stealth again)
- Shaman (disease ista, kite, if friar tries to clean himself just bolt him and dot fight over)
Hib :
- Nightshade (pa, kite, dd)
- Ranger (see hunter, not even totally needed here)
- Valewalker (on last hit, put snare, kite, kill on range)
- Enchanter (pet do ur work just move around)
- Champion (not even funny)
- Battlebard/Battledruid (not used here, doesnt mean he cant win right away anyway)
- Warden
- Hero (see warrior)
The only tricky stealther that may have a problem is Sb which guess what : DOESNT HAVE TO decide to pick a fight with a friar in the first place.... it's his own choise....
i wont even go throu the whole list of possible albion character still better on 1v1, so again where is this S tier ? each time i get people faceplanting on me i thank them from the bottom of my heart but that doesnt mean is how they should've played their own class......
I don't encounter enough friars to complain about them but you comments on Rangers are quite off base for the simple fact that everyone has perma sprint and friars can heal themselves. You will never be able to do enough dmg to kill them. Sure, you can prob run away but you won't ever kill them. Not sure about hunters. Maybe sending a pet in to annoy the friar when you are kiting might help...unsure.
Standard Friar fight goes like this...(for ranger)
1. Crit shot - if it hits seems to do low dmg for a caster target..tells you right there it is prob a friar.
2. Fire shot two - by this time friar is facing you and starting to charge. Shot is most likely evaded.
3. Line up shot 3 - perma sprinting friar is now in range of insta interrupt, You are interrupted, shot stopped.
4. Turn to to run for you life..start to kite. Friar heals himself. Now you are done. Your options are to continue to run and hope Friar gets bored chasing or take a chance at restealthing and hope they just don't continue sprinting to your spot and find you. Either way you just can't put enough damage down range to over come interrupts and self heals. Melee toe to toe is zero chance of success.
did they removed the speed boost from pf ?
Thu 9 May 2019 3:12 PM
by
Horus
No, it is on a timer. But really all it does if it is up is to give a chance to get away easier or put a little more distance between you and the friar. If you decide to continue the fight the same kite mechanics apply.
Shots evaded, distance closed, next shot interrupted, and dmg healed while trying to kite away.
I don't fear friars. I just avoid them and do not engage. If I mistakenly do thinking they are a caster I know after the 1st shot and I run away.
Shots evaded, distance closed, next shot interrupted, and dmg healed while trying to kite away.
I don't fear friars. I just avoid them and do not engage. If I mistakenly do thinking they are a caster I know after the 1st shot and I run away.
Thu 9 May 2019 4:24 PM
by
chryso
I don't think friars have any insta heals so they can't chase you down and heal themselves at the same time.
Thu 9 May 2019 7:33 PM
by
Milchschnidde
Friar can use theire instant taunt to interrupt actions like instant speed from PF and Hunter when they try to run away. the castspeed is fast enough to heal themselfs as long the enemy runs away. Friars are able to use IP etc.
I dont want to talk about how you could therertical fight a friar it does not solve the problem for the relted issue of "REFLEX ATACK" on a Friar (SUPPORTER CLASS) outperforms the performance of , Blademaster, Mercenary or Berserker which should not be possible as "Supporter". It outperformance dual wielder reflex atack.
That is the primary issue.
It shouldnt be a lottery if 2 ppl could kill 1 char.
There are 2 ways <ould buff the performance of all dual wielder "reflex atack" classes or balance 1 char like the friar more to the direction of dual wielding classes dmg.
thats all.
I dont want to talk about how you could therertical fight a friar it does not solve the problem for the relted issue of "REFLEX ATACK" on a Friar (SUPPORTER CLASS) outperforms the performance of , Blademaster, Mercenary or Berserker which should not be possible as "Supporter". It outperformance dual wielder reflex atack.
That is the primary issue.
It shouldnt be a lottery if 2 ppl could kill 1 char.
There are 2 ways <ould buff the performance of all dual wielder "reflex atack" classes or balance 1 char like the friar more to the direction of dual wielding classes dmg.
thats all.
Fri 10 May 2019 4:52 AM
by
jelzinga_EU
That list of classes a friar can beat is based on the assumption that the friar is equipped with a NPC-brain and doesn't attempt to counter-kite to heal or break LoS. It is laughable to think a ranger will be able to perma-kite a friar for the occassional shots after restealthing while the friar won't heal in between - or simply runs out of range to heal up.
The matter of the fact is that Reflex Attack not only enhances their DPS by insane amounts - it also enhances their defenses. Friars get a 150 hp ablative proc on their Sidi-weapon which procs on Reflex Attacks quite often, Nate has healprocs on his weapons AFAIK, same logic applies.
It tells you something that the best strategy to deal with Reflex Attack is to avoid them - that is a text-book example of being overpowered but because you got enough other viable targets that is somehow alright.. Mind boggling logic
The matter of the fact is that Reflex Attack not only enhances their DPS by insane amounts - it also enhances their defenses. Friars get a 150 hp ablative proc on their Sidi-weapon which procs on Reflex Attacks quite often, Nate has healprocs on his weapons AFAIK, same logic applies.
It tells you something that the best strategy to deal with Reflex Attack is to avoid them - that is a text-book example of being overpowered but because you got enough other viable targets that is somehow alright.. Mind boggling logic
Sat 11 May 2019 6:49 AM
by
Druth
Update...
Top 250 players this week, total rps from KILLS.
Friars 1,7 mio.
SB's 5,3 mio. (and takes top spot as well).
The "dreaded" triade of Reflex Attack abusers, Zerk, Friar and Merc, has a combined of 4,3 mio from kills.
What is most out of control... SB's or Reflex Attack?
Top 250 players this week, total rps from KILLS.
Friars 1,7 mio.
SB's 5,3 mio. (and takes top spot as well).
The "dreaded" triade of Reflex Attack abusers, Zerk, Friar and Merc, has a combined of 4,3 mio from kills.
What is most out of control... SB's or Reflex Attack?
Sat 11 May 2019 10:18 AM
by
Hejjin
As a templatted RR6.3 Friar i try to have the same strategy against enemy casters, alas, not having run speed or stealth I am not as successful at that as assassins or archers. The reality is that in the majority of cases a solo Friar does not get to choose when or who they fight. Friars are strong against DW melee, especially those that use fast weapons, but we perform very poorly against casters as we have a single ranged (1350) interrupt that is on long cool-down (30 seconds). Rock, Paper, Scissors. The assassin classes have become used to being the rock that smashes the scissors of every other class. There are 3 Friars in the top 250 solo kills for this week with the highest ranked at 102. There was 1 in top 250 for last week and 1 in the top 250 for the last 48 hours. The herald stats do not reflect (pun intended) Friars being the solo monsters that some on these forums paint them as.jelzinga_EU wrote: ↑Fri 10 May 2019 4:52 AMsnip...
It tells you something that the best strategy to deal with Reflex Attack is to avoid them - that is a text-book example of being overpowered but because you got enough other viable targets that is somehow alright.. Mind boggling logic
I am not saying that I do not perceive any issues with RA, as I do, and I listed those issues in other threads about this subject. Even though I benefit from RA, I would not be adverse to the dev's decreasing the weapon proc rates associated with the RA attacks, if that is actually possible without extensive changes to the code. I would also have zero issues if they normalised the speed of the staff so that the Brazen Stout Defender (speed 5.6) is not the default choice of every solo Friar.
The stealther classes need to stop whining, especially the assassins, you dominate the solo kills statistics on the Herald week in and week out.
Sat 11 May 2019 11:24 AM
by
Luluko
I think its unfair to compare stealthers to any visible class, that you can avoid getting zerged is a huge benefit but doesnt make your class overpowered its just convience to the solo playstyle really. If you wanna compare friar, do that to champ/vw or thane. And I have my doubts that those are high on the herald when it comes to solo kills at least when it comes to 50 rvr. In thid they prolly rock.Hejjin wrote: ↑Sat 11 May 2019 10:18 AMThe stealther classes need to stop whining, especially the assassins, you dominate the solo kills statistics on the Herald week in and week out.
Sat 11 May 2019 11:43 AM
by
Fames
Well, look it up then, Thanes and Champions are way ahead of Friars when it comes to solo kills
Sat 11 May 2019 12:16 PM
by
Saroi
Hejjin wrote: ↑Sat 11 May 2019 10:18 AMbut we perform very poorly against casters as we have a single ranged (1350) interrupt that is on long cool-down (30 seconds).jelzinga_EU wrote: ↑Fri 10 May 2019 4:52 AMsnip...
It tells you something that the best strategy to deal with Reflex Attack is to avoid them - that is a text-book example of being overpowered but because you got enough other viable targets that is somehow alright.. Mind boggling logic
I am still surprised that so many here haven't figured out that there is a 1500 range dd charge from alchemy which works wonders against casters. So you can have atleast 2 interrupts.
Sat 11 May 2019 1:04 PM
by
Hejjin
Emphasis added :Luluko wrote: ↑Sat 11 May 2019 11:24 AMI think its unfair to compare stealthers to any visible class, that you can avoid getting zerged is a huge benefit but doesnt make your class overpowered its just convience to the solo playstyle really. If you wanna compare friar, do that to champ/vw or thane. And I have my doubts that those are high on the herald when it comes to solo kills at least when it comes to 50 rvr. In thid they prolly rock.Hejjin wrote: ↑Sat 11 May 2019 10:18 AMThe stealther classes need to stop whining, especially the assassins, you dominate the solo kills statistics on the Herald week in and week out.
Why speculate when you can check the Phoenix Herald and see exactly how each class compares in solo kills?
Solo Kills :
All time : Champ = 5 (Highest 92), Thane = 3 (Highest 45), Friar = 0
Last Week : Champ = 4 (Highest 132), Thane = 4 (Highest 40), Friar = 1 (Highest 197)
This week : Champ = 5 (Highest 60), Thane = 2 (Highest 25) , Friar = 3 (Highest 102)
48 hours : Champ = 7 (5 @50, 2 at 24) (Highest 42), Thane = 4 (Highest 24) , Friar = 1 (Highest 68)
As for your point about stealthers, in the majority of cases they get to choose when and where they fight when solo, a Friar does not, my point was in response to the post about the best strategy is to avoid attacking Friars. For the most part I don't have the luxury of avoiding the solo casters that cause my class so many problems. In one of the other threads about RA assassins admitted they would attack all other classes and yet they complain about struggling against one class, Friars struggle against more than one class and it is not us that dominate the solo kills regardless of how we are perceived.
Edit added all time solo kills.
Sat 11 May 2019 1:09 PM
by
Hejjin
My point was about skills / abilities that the class has, and no the charge does not suddenly make a Friar good against casters at long range.Saroi wrote: ↑Sat 11 May 2019 12:16 PMHejjin wrote: ↑Sat 11 May 2019 10:18 AMbut we perform very poorly against casters as we have a single ranged (1350) interrupt that is on long cool-down (30 seconds).jelzinga_EU wrote: ↑Fri 10 May 2019 4:52 AMsnip...
It tells you something that the best strategy to deal with Reflex Attack is to avoid them - that is a text-book example of being overpowered but because you got enough other viable targets that is somehow alright.. Mind boggling logic
I am still surprised that so many here haven't figured out that there is a 1500 range dd charge from alchemy which works wonders against casters. So you can have atleast 2 interrupts.
Sat 11 May 2019 1:55 PM
by
Luluko
only caster I really see where friar would have a problem if he speccs det would be eld because of disease/ns and maybe sm if the pet intercepts really all and you couldnt manage to find something to break los and a dark/sup bd will always kill a friar if he isnt brain dead. Despite that none of those have speed and only eld has ns for long range speed interrupt. So you can theoretically run away from all those 3 as a friar and if you use los and mobs right most other casters shouldnt be that much of a problem even without det. The whole problem isnt friar its the refusale of devs to put in speed charges and that people either have to play stealth or skald/minst if they want to solo without donating all the time to fotm op duos and more.Hejjin wrote: ↑Sat 11 May 2019 1:04 PMEmphasis added :Luluko wrote: ↑Sat 11 May 2019 11:24 AMI think its unfair to compare stealthers to any visible class, that you can avoid getting zerged is a huge benefit but doesnt make your class overpowered its just convience to the solo playstyle really. If you wanna compare friar, do that to champ/vw or thane. And I have my doubts that those are high on the herald when it comes to solo kills at least when it comes to 50 rvr. In thid they prolly rock.Hejjin wrote: ↑Sat 11 May 2019 10:18 AMThe stealther classes need to stop whining, especially the assassins, you dominate the solo kills statistics on the Herald week in and week out.
Why speculate when you can check the Phoenix Herald and see exactly how each class compares in solo kills?
Solo Kills :
Last Week : Champ = 4 (Highest 132), Thane = 4 (Highest 40), Friar = 1 (Highest 197)
This week : Champ = 5 (Highest 60), Thane = 2 (Highest 25) , Friar = 3 (Highest 102)
48 hours : Champ = 7 (5 @50, 2 at 24) (Highest 42), Thane = 4 (Highest 24) , Friar = 1 (Highest 68)
As for your point about stealthers, in the majority of cases they get to choose when and where they fight when solo, a Friar does not, my point was in response to the post about the best strategy is to avoid attacking Friars. For the most part I don't have the luxury of avoiding the solo casters that cause my class so many problems. In one of the other threads about RA assassins admitted they would attack all other classes and yet they complain about struggling against one class, Friars struggle against more than one class and it is not us that dominate the solo kills regardless of how we are perceived.
Sb/Ns have no means at all to counter a friar with RA except snaring and running and even that isnt reliable if they evade that you only have vanish. If there was some speed of the hunt here you would see a lot more solo friars and tanks in general but guess the devs prefer the mindless zergfest.
When it comes to your stats about the solo kills its quite surprising that friar isnt played more in solo play guess the other 2 do a little better thanks to snare and more range interrupt then or most albs just dont have the endurance to solo....
Sat 11 May 2019 3:03 PM
by
Hejjin
When I read posts like yours, and the one by the ranger complaining that Friars get IP, ST and RA, I always wonder if you theory-crafters have worked out exactly how many realm points are required to achieve what you are suggesting, As for your statement about casters, I am reminded of the old adage : In theory there is no difference between practice and theory, in practice there is.Luluko wrote: ↑Sat 11 May 2019 1:55 PMonly caster I really see where friar would have a problem if he speccs det would be eld because of disease/ns and maybe sm if the pet intercepts really all and you couldnt manage to find something to break los and a dark/sup bd will always kill a friar if he isnt brain dead. Despite that none of those have speed and only eld has ns for long range speed interrupt. So you can theoretically run away from all those 3 as a friar and if you use los and mobs right most other casters shouldnt be that much of a problem even without det. The whole problem isnt friar its the refusale of devs to put in speed charges and that people either have to play stealth or skald/minst if they want to solo without donating all the time to fotm op duos and more.Hejjin wrote: ↑Sat 11 May 2019 1:04 PMEmphasis added :Luluko wrote: ↑Sat 11 May 2019 11:24 AMI think its unfair to compare stealthers to any visible class, that you can avoid getting zerged is a huge benefit but doesnt make your class overpowered its just convience to the solo playstyle really. If you wanna compare friar, do that to champ/vw or thane. And I have my doubts that those are high on the herald when it comes to solo kills at least when it comes to 50 rvr. In thid they prolly rock.
Why speculate when you can check the Phoenix Herald and see exactly how each class compares in solo kills?
Solo Kills :
Last Week : Champ = 4 (Highest 132), Thane = 4 (Highest 40), Friar = 1 (Highest 197)
This week : Champ = 5 (Highest 60), Thane = 2 (Highest 25) , Friar = 3 (Highest 102)
48 hours : Champ = 7 (5 @50, 2 at 24) (Highest 42), Thane = 4 (Highest 24) , Friar = 1 (Highest 68)
As for your point about stealthers, in the majority of cases they get to choose when and where they fight when solo, a Friar does not, my point was in response to the post about the best strategy is to avoid attacking Friars. For the most part I don't have the luxury of avoiding the solo casters that cause my class so many problems. In one of the other threads about RA assassins admitted they would attack all other classes and yet they complain about struggling against one class, Friars struggle against more than one class and it is not us that dominate the solo kills regardless of how we are perceived.
Sb/Ns have no means at all to counter a friar with RA except snaring and running and even that isnt reliable if they evade that you only have vanish. If there was some speed of the hunt here you would see a lot more solo friars and tanks in general but guess the devs prefer the mindless zergfest.
When it comes to your stats about the solo kills its quite surprising that friar isnt played more in solo play guess the other 2 do a little better thanks to snare and more range interrupt then or most albs just dont have the endurance to solo....
As for your comment that : Ns have no means at all to counter a friar with RA except snaring and running
I must have been dreaming when Xann killed me solo last week . I was snared, he ran off and spammed nukes at me...so obviously there is nothing that a NS can do to a RA friar ;-).
They are not my statistics, they are from the herald. Perhaps the number of solo Friars doing well in solo kills means that they are not quite the overpowered soloing beasts that some on these forums make them out to be?
Sat 11 May 2019 3:13 PM
by
jelzinga_EU
Hejjin wrote: ↑Sat 11 May 2019 3:03 PMThey are not my statistics, they are from the herald. Perhaps the number of solo Friars doing well in solo kills means that they are not quite the overpowered soloing beasts that some on these forums make them out to be?
Or perhaps the Herald has nothing to do about how stupid Reflex Attack is ?
Forget the Herald for a second and realize that friars have their DPS increased by something along the lines of 75% against certain classes with Reflex Attack. That doesn't make them suddenly solo-monsters in avoiding zergs, groups, small-men and casters or whatever. It does however make an on forehand reasonable fight a complete lob-sided walk-over. On zerks it is the same bollocks - see videos of Natebruner. Reasonably interesting and balanced fights turn into a complete crap-all-over-him-fest.
In this era (OF, no TOA-bonusses, no ChampLevels) Reflex Attack in its current live-alike appearance has nothing to do with balance. If it was an active RA with a reasonable short CD it could be countered. As it stands now, some fights have absolutely zero chance in countering it.
Sat 11 May 2019 3:41 PM
by
Hejjin
If you read my reply to you from earlier, you will see that I acknowledge that there are issues with RA, so it is not that I am blindly defending it. However RA in its current form does not make us the solo monsters that some on here claim. The number of Friars on the server has increased substantially in recent weeks, I think it is the MMO equivalent of the Streisand effect., the more the assassin whine about it, the more people that will roll Friars as an anti-assassin class. Having chatted to a number of the new friars, their motivation to play the class was down to it being able to counter assassins as most had enough of being ganked by them...rock, paper, scissors.jelzinga_EU wrote: ↑Sat 11 May 2019 3:13 PMHejjin wrote: ↑Sat 11 May 2019 3:03 PMThey are not my statistics, they are from the herald. Perhaps the number of solo Friars doing well in solo kills means that they are not quite the overpowered soloing beasts that some on these forums make them out to be?
Or perhaps the Herald has nothing to do about how stupid Reflex Attack is ?
Forget the Herald for a second and realize that friars have their DPS increased by something along the lines of 75% against certain classes with Reflex Attack. That doesn't make them suddenly solo-monsters in avoiding zergs, groups, small-men and casters or whatever. It does however make an on forehand reasonable fight a complete lob-sided walk-over. On zerks it is the same bollocks - see videos of Natebruner. Reasonably interesting and balanced fights turn into a complete crap-all-over-him-fest.
In this era (OF, no TOA-bonusses, no ChampLevels) Reflex Attack in its current live-alike appearance has nothing to do with balance. If it was an active RA with a reasonable short CD it could be countered. As it stands now, some fights have absolutely zero chance in countering it.
Sat 11 May 2019 3:45 PM
by
Luluko
Hejjin wrote: ↑Sat 11 May 2019 3:03 PMWhen I read posts like yours, and the one by the ranger complaining that Friars get IP, ST and RA, I always wonder if you theory-crafters have worked out exactly how many realm points are required to achieve what you are suggesting, As for your statement about casters, I am reminded of the old adage : In theory there is no difference between practice and theory, in practice there is.Luluko wrote: ↑Sat 11 May 2019 1:55 PMonly caster I really see where friar would have a problem if he speccs det would be eld because of disease/ns and maybe sm if the pet intercepts really all and you couldnt manage to find something to break los and a dark/sup bd will always kill a friar if he isnt brain dead. Despite that none of those have speed and only eld has ns for long range speed interrupt. So you can theoretically run away from all those 3 as a friar and if you use los and mobs right most other casters shouldnt be that much of a problem even without det. The whole problem isnt friar its the refusale of devs to put in speed charges and that people either have to play stealth or skald/minst if they want to solo without donating all the time to fotm op duos and more.Hejjin wrote: ↑Sat 11 May 2019 1:04 PMEmphasis added :
Why speculate when you can check the Phoenix Herald and see exactly how each class compares in solo kills?
Solo Kills :
Last Week : Champ = 4 (Highest 132), Thane = 4 (Highest 40), Friar = 1 (Highest 197)
This week : Champ = 5 (Highest 60), Thane = 2 (Highest 25) , Friar = 3 (Highest 102)
48 hours : Champ = 7 (5 @50, 2 at 24) (Highest 42), Thane = 4 (Highest 24) , Friar = 1 (Highest 68)
As for your point about stealthers, in the majority of cases they get to choose when and where they fight when solo, a Friar does not, my point was in response to the post about the best strategy is to avoid attacking Friars. For the most part I don't have the luxury of avoiding the solo casters that cause my class so many problems. In one of the other threads about RA assassins admitted they would attack all other classes and yet they complain about struggling against one class, Friars struggle against more than one class and it is not us that dominate the solo kills regardless of how we are perceived.
Sb/Ns have no means at all to counter a friar with RA except snaring and running and even that isnt reliable if they evade that you only have vanish. If there was some speed of the hunt here you would see a lot more solo friars and tanks in general but guess the devs prefer the mindless zergfest.
When it comes to your stats about the solo kills its quite surprising that friar isnt played more in solo play guess the other 2 do a little better thanks to snare and more range interrupt then or most albs just dont have the endurance to solo....
As for your comment that : Ns have no means at all to counter a friar with RA except snaring and running
I must have been dreaming when Xann killed me solo last week . I was snared, he ran off and spammed nukes at me...so obviously there is nothing that a NS can do to a RA friar ;-).
They are not my statistics, they are from the herald. Perhaps the number of solo Friars doing well in solo kills means that they are not quite the overpowered soloing beasts that some on these forums make them out to be?
ns nukes have like 700 range if you cant throw 1 rupt and move out of the range or close the gap in that time you are doing something wrong, also I stated that friar can theoretically kill most casters if you choose the right place for it, obviously thats not always the case in pracise but so arent many things and I wouldnt just disregard the "crying" of sbs they certainly have issues but those only come to light if you try to solo on one yourself really, Its not that easy to solo on this server even as a stealth.
Sat 11 May 2019 3:48 PM
by
Luluko
And the result will be that you see less and less sbs playing then or they will just camp near hib spawns and kill those or only attack a race/class combos which cant be a friar. All those fotm friars wont get those easy sb rps and there is still vanish and some people rather go afk 15mins to reg that than to donate to those people or other stealther grps.Hejjin wrote: ↑Sat 11 May 2019 3:41 PMIf you read my reply to you from earlier, you will see that I acknowledge that there are issues with RA, so it is not that I am blindly defending it. However RA in its current form does not make us the solo monsters that some on here claim. The number of Friars on the server has increased substantially in recent weeks, I think it is the MMO equivalent of the Streisand effect., the more the assassin whine about it, the more people that will roll Friars as an anti-assassin class. Having chatted to a number of the new friars, their motivation to play the class was down to it being able to counter assassins as most had enough of being ganked by them...rock, paper, scissors.jelzinga_EU wrote: ↑Sat 11 May 2019 3:13 PMHejjin wrote: ↑Sat 11 May 2019 3:03 PMThey are not my statistics, they are from the herald. Perhaps the number of solo Friars doing well in solo kills means that they are not quite the overpowered soloing beasts that some on these forums make them out to be?
Or perhaps the Herald has nothing to do about how stupid Reflex Attack is ?
Forget the Herald for a second and realize that friars have their DPS increased by something along the lines of 75% against certain classes with Reflex Attack. That doesn't make them suddenly solo-monsters in avoiding zergs, groups, small-men and casters or whatever. It does however make an on forehand reasonable fight a complete lob-sided walk-over. On zerks it is the same bollocks - see videos of Natebruner. Reasonably interesting and balanced fights turn into a complete crap-all-over-him-fest.
In this era (OF, no TOA-bonusses, no ChampLevels) Reflex Attack in its current live-alike appearance has nothing to do with balance. If it was an active RA with a reasonable short CD it could be countered. As it stands now, some fights have absolutely zero chance in countering it.
Sat 11 May 2019 4:16 PM
by
Hejjin
Did you fail to notice the Friar taunt cool-down and that the fact that I was snared? Purge was on cool-down, so how do I move fast enough to get out of range when snared? In your theory-crafting are you ignoring the fact that the NS was able to move at a faster pace than me?Luluko wrote: ↑Sat 11 May 2019 3:45 PMns nukes have like 700 range if you cant throw 1 rupt and move out of the range or close the gap in that time you are doing something wrong, also I stated that friar can theoretically kill most casters if you choose the right place for it, obviously thats not always the case in pracise but so arent many things and I wouldnt just disregard the "crying" of sbs they certainly have issues but those only come to light if you try to solo on one yourself really, Its not that easy to solo on this server even as a stealth.
As for your theory about killing most casters if I choose the right place for it, I will once again point out that solo Friars usually do not get to choose when and where they will encounter certain classes. Anyway enough is enough, we are just going round and round in circles.
Sat 11 May 2019 5:44 PM
by
Tarticus74
Yes I'm a stealther and have a temp Friars are the most op-ed class in the game end off
I won't touch anything over RR3 and they normally still own me if they played right and it's not that hard.
Need a nerf simple as that
I won't touch anything over RR3 and they normally still own me if they played right and it's not that hard.
Need a nerf simple as that
Sat 11 May 2019 5:54 PM
by
Luluko
I would suggest you use an item dd charge then and yes I said in theory and that the pracise looks a lot different sometimes but you still have the chance as friar while sbs just have to avoid that class entirely if they have at least a little common sense. Sb needs to line up pa+cd to even be able to kill a friar without RA and purge up and even then it can get pretty close that 2h crush damage with their self haste buff is like 4-5 stlyes and your hp is at 0 for the sb and those styles are out pretty fast thanks to the selfhaste.Hejjin wrote: ↑Sat 11 May 2019 4:16 PMDid you fail to notice the Friar taunt cool-down and that the fact that I was snared? Purge was on cool-down, so how do I move fast enough to get out of range when snared? In your theory-crafting are you ignoring the fact that the NS was able to move at a faster pace than me?Luluko wrote: ↑Sat 11 May 2019 3:45 PMns nukes have like 700 range if you cant throw 1 rupt and move out of the range or close the gap in that time you are doing something wrong, also I stated that friar can theoretically kill most casters if you choose the right place for it, obviously thats not always the case in pracise but so arent many things and I wouldnt just disregard the "crying" of sbs they certainly have issues but those only come to light if you try to solo on one yourself really, Its not that easy to solo on this server even as a stealth.
As for your theory about killing most casters if I choose the right place for it, I will once again point out that solo Friars usually do not get to choose when and where they will encounter certain classes. Anyway enough is enough, we are just going round and round in circles.
Sat 11 May 2019 11:13 PM
by
Cadeg
don't worry too much, when RA will be nerf, for the same amount of point in a RA, they can take MOC for free, who will heal them for something like 250/400 ( depending on their spec ) when a NS will try to kite them ... and for 30 sec ( or OOP ) ...
oh wait ...
oh wait ...
Sun 12 May 2019 8:45 PM
by
Milchschnidde
Cadeg wrote: ↑Sat 11 May 2019 11:13 PMdon't worry too much, when RA will be nerf, for the same amount of point in a RA, they can take MOC for free, who will heal them for something like 250/400 ( depending on their spec ) when a NS will try to kite them ... and for 30 sec ( or OOP ) ...
oh wait ...
But moc itself does not strike back and does not auto kill targets without effort, stealther use disease on them in the current meta disease doesnt matter, because you die on the reflecting damage, even if youre stun hits and the friar and he does not purge - you simply die on the reflexatack..
There are a few rules that shoud be changed on reflex atack :
1. Reflex atack shouldnt work when the user is stunned.
2. Reflex atack should strike in the delay of the weaponspeed and not use the delay of the atacker. {currently it seems to strike every x seconds where it depends on the atackers atack speed.}
3. Procs should not trigger on reflex atack.
Sun 12 May 2019 9:27 PM
by
Hejjin
HmmmMilchschnidde wrote: ↑Sun 12 May 2019 8:45 PMCadeg wrote: ↑Sat 11 May 2019 11:13 PMdon't worry too much, when RA will be nerf, for the same amount of point in a RA, they can take MOC for free, who will heal them for something like 250/400 ( depending on their spec ) when a NS will try to kite them ... and for 30 sec ( or OOP ) ...
oh wait ...
But moc itself does not strike back and does not auto kill targets without effort, stealther use disease on them in the current meta disease doesnt matter, because you die on the reflecting damage, even if youre stun hits and the friar and he does not purge - you simply die on the reflexatack..
There are a few rules that shoud be changed on reflex atack :
1. Reflex atack shouldnt work when the user is stunned.
2. Reflex atack should strike in the delay of the weaponspeed and not use the delay of the atacker. {currently it seems to strike every x seconds where it depends on the atackers atack speed.}
3. Procs should not trigger on reflex atack.
I doubt many, if any, would bother spending 30 realm points to achieve what you are suggesting. I have zero problems with 1 and very little with 3, though I believe it would better as a much reduced proc rate, but item 2 in that list would render it totally worthless even if items 1 and 3 were not implemented. I personally believe the damage should be normalised as if it was from a significantly faster staff.
Mon 13 May 2019 12:59 AM
by
Seal
jelzinga_EU wrote: ↑Sat 11 May 2019 3:13 PMIn this era (OF, no TOA-bonusses, no ChampLevels) Reflex Attack in its current live-alike appearance has nothing to do with balance. If it was an active RA with a reasonable short CD it could be countered. As it stands now, some fights have absolutely zero chance in countering it.
you talk about RR5 Reflex attack (which would in fact mean only friar get's it, no berserk no merc no blademaster, you want to make it a 30 sec cd on a 10 min 100% reflect like it was on rr5 ? sure thing, all sb then stop to run vanish and take shadowrun...... same live-alike appearance at this era (of, no toa-bonusses, no champlevel) : ps. it means also no IP for any assassin
you want it removed ? again up for it, give TWF instead people dont seems to complain about it
Tue 21 May 2019 2:37 PM
by
Dakkhon
Tarticus74 wrote: ↑Sat 11 May 2019 5:44 PMYes I'm a stealther and have a temp Friars are the most op-ed class in the game end off
I won't touch anything over RR3 and they normally still own me if they played right and it's not that hard.
Need a nerf simple as that
.....sigh no one believes any of what you typed lol. Then again its your choice to not attack anything over RR3. If you are not skilled enough to win or RNG seems to only kill you with Reflex Attack then too bad. You can wtfpawn everything on your stealther. i have a stealther and love him but there are some classes tha tare tougher but it doesnt stop me from attacking them. Noworries just give the Friar dodger back and all is good......
Tue 21 May 2019 2:50 PM
by
Sepplord
Dakkhon wrote: ↑Tue 21 May 2019 2:37 PMTarticus74 wrote: ↑Sat 11 May 2019 5:44 PMYes I'm a stealther and have a temp Friars are the most op-ed class in the game end off
I won't touch anything over RR3 and they normally still own me if they played right and it's not that hard.
Need a nerf simple as that
.....sigh no one believes any of what you typed lol. Then again its your choice to not attack anything over RR3. If you are not skilled enough to win or RNG seems to only kill you with Reflex Attack then too bad. You can wtfpawn everything on your stealther. i have a stealther and love him but there are some classes tha tare tougher but it doesnt stop me from attacking them. Noworries just give the Friar dodger back and all is good......
i believe him, as i experience the same...RA with 50% chance is not really RNG fucking someone over, it's just ridiculously strong against dualwielders, and especially leftaxe users. I still regularly attack friars when i want to end the night anyways or similar and usually after backstab-stun wears of i have less life than the friar. Friar always was a stealther killer, and now he is just even more unbeatable /Shrug...
but implying he isn't telling the truth with those experiences goes too far imo
Tue 21 May 2019 3:07 PM
by
Sektor
Another “QQ I can’t kill every class in the game” stealther post. So sick of you guys whining about EVERYTHING.
Tue 21 May 2019 4:26 PM
by
Dakkhon
....so let me get this straight you all are getting your butts handed to you from an unstyled swing? an attack that can and is almost assuredly to be blocked, parried or evaded? This is your argument? Lets be clear I believe that he is scared of getting hit by RA but I do not believe that the RA is consistantly killing folks and totally impairing their game play. Total nonsense to me. RNG...sure it could happen but OP sorry not buying it. You are welcome to your own opinion and so is he but there is no way an unstyled swing is taking out folks and doing the hell all damage people are suggesting.Sepplord wrote: ↑Tue 21 May 2019 2:50 PMDakkhon wrote: ↑Tue 21 May 2019 2:37 PMTarticus74 wrote: ↑Sat 11 May 2019 5:44 PMYes I'm a stealther and have a temp Friars are the most op-ed class in the game end off
I won't touch anything over RR3 and they normally still own me if they played right and it's not that hard.
Need a nerf simple as that
.....sigh no one believes any of what you typed lol. Then again its your choice to not attack anything over RR3. If you are not skilled enough to win or RNG seems to only kill you with Reflex Attack then too bad. You can wtfpawn everything on your stealther. i have a stealther and love him but there are some classes tha tare tougher but it doesnt stop me from attacking them. Noworries just give the Friar dodger back and all is good......
i believe him, as i experience the same...RA with 50% chance is not really RNG fucking someone over, it's just ridiculously strong against dualwielders, and especially leftaxe users. I still regularly attack friars when i want to end the night anyways or similar and usually after backstab-stun wears of i have less life than the friar. Friar always was a stealther killer, and now he is just even more unbeatable /Shrug...
but implying he isn't telling the truth with those experiences goes too far imo
Thu 23 May 2019 3:16 PM
by
Hejjin
Well the wet dreams of all the assassin classes have been fulfilled, in today's patch Reflex Attack has been nerfed into oblivion. It is most certainly not worth anywhere close to 30 points for this current version.
Thu 23 May 2019 3:38 PM
by
Sektor
Hejjin wrote: ↑Thu 23 May 2019 3:16 PMWell the wet dreams of all the assassin classes have been fulfilled, in today's patch Reflex Attack has been nerfed into oblivion. It is most certainly not worth anywhere close to 30 points for this current version.
Omg gross. I want to puke
Thu 23 May 2019 3:53 PM
by
Cadebrennus
Hejjin wrote: ↑Thu 23 May 2019 3:16 PMWell the wet dreams of all the assassin classes have been fulfilled, in today's patch Reflex Attack has been nerfed into oblivion. It is most certainly not worth anywhere close to 30 points for this current version.
Where in the patch notes does it say it was nerfed? I only saw stuff about siege weapon damage.
Thu 23 May 2019 3:54 PM
by
gruenesschaf
gruenesschaf
Yes every single change is the end of the world.
All melee based chances, be it alch procs, pf or other kinds of procs, have the listed chance per hit for 3.5 speed weapons, if your weapon is slower the chance per hit is higher, if your weapon is faster the chance per hit is lower.
This change made it so that this applies to reflex attack too, once for the attacker speed and once for your / the defender speed: For the attacker speed it works like any other proc, slower than 3.5 -> higher chance, faster than 3.5 -> lower chance. For your weapon speed / defender speed slower than 3.5 means lower chance per hit, faster than 3.5 means higher chance per hit.
In all cases if you and your opponent have the same weapon speed it will cancel itself out and the chance is 50% per hit.
This should mostly be visible in case of fast offhand hits vs 2h, those hits will trigger it less often and slow 2h vs 1h, the 2h hits will trigger it more often.
All melee based chances, be it alch procs, pf or other kinds of procs, have the listed chance per hit for 3.5 speed weapons, if your weapon is slower the chance per hit is higher, if your weapon is faster the chance per hit is lower.
This change made it so that this applies to reflex attack too, once for the attacker speed and once for your / the defender speed: For the attacker speed it works like any other proc, slower than 3.5 -> higher chance, faster than 3.5 -> lower chance. For your weapon speed / defender speed slower than 3.5 means lower chance per hit, faster than 3.5 means higher chance per hit.
In all cases if you and your opponent have the same weapon speed it will cancel itself out and the chance is 50% per hit.
This should mostly be visible in case of fast offhand hits vs 2h, those hits will trigger it less often and slow 2h vs 1h, the 2h hits will trigger it more often.
Thu 23 May 2019 4:02 PM
by
Hejjin
Shrug, can I have respec stone please, as in its current incarnation it is not worth wasting 30 points on RA5. Currently I am only testing it in PvE, and its performance is distinctly underwhelming. I will continue to test with solo pulls until I have gathered sufficient data.gruenesschaf wrote: ↑Thu 23 May 2019 3:54 PMYes every single change is the end of the world.
All melee based chances, be it alch procs, pf or other kinds of procs, have the listed chance per hit for 3.5 speed weapons, if your weapon is slower the chance per hit is higher, if your weapon is faster the chance per hit is lower.
This change made it so that this applies to reflex attack too, once for the attacker speed and once for your / the defender speed: For the attacker speed it works like any other proc, slower than 3.5 -> higher chance, faster than 3.5 -> lower chance. For your weapon speed / defender speed slower than 3.5 means lower chance per hit, faster than 3.5 means higher chance per hit.
In all cases if you and your opponent have the same weapon speed it will cancel itself out and the chance is 50% per hit.
The most effect should be visible on fast offhand hits vs 2h, those hits will trigger it less often and slow 2h vs 1h, the 2h hits will trigger it more often.
Edit : Just out of interest, have you actually logged in one of the classes with RA and actually tested this?
Thu 23 May 2019 4:06 PM
by
Sektor
I’ll save the points and go mop and aug dex. Should still rip assassins
Thu 23 May 2019 4:17 PM
by
Kadorna
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑Thu 23 May 2019 3:54 PMYes every single change is the end of the world.
All melee based chances, be it alch procs, pf or other kinds of procs, have the listed chance per hit for 3.5 speed weapons, if your weapon is slower the chance per hit is higher, if your weapon is faster the chance per hit is lower.
This change made it so that this applies to reflex attack too, once for the attacker speed and once for your / the defender speed: For the attacker speed it works like any other proc, slower than 3.5 -> higher chance, faster than 3.5 -> lower chance. For your weapon speed / defender speed slower than 3.5 means lower chance per hit, faster than 3.5 means higher chance per hit.
In all cases if you and your opponent have the same weapon speed it will cancel itself out and the chance is 50% per hit.
This should mostly be visible in case of fast offhand hits vs 2h, those hits will trigger it less often and slow 2h vs 1h, the 2h hits will trigger it more often.
I cant find that changes into the patch notes....
https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=9103
Also, i cant find any change at the charplan RA for Reflex Attack => keep showing a 50% chance at level 5 with any kind of restriction like you are saying....
Thu 23 May 2019 5:10 PM
by
Cadebrennus
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑Thu 23 May 2019 3:54 PMYes every single change is the end of the world.
All melee based chances, be it alch procs, pf or other kinds of procs, have the listed chance per hit for 3.5 speed weapons, if your weapon is slower the chance per hit is higher, if your weapon is faster the chance per hit is lower.
This change made it so that this applies to reflex attack too, once for the attacker speed and once for your / the defender speed: For the attacker speed it works like any other proc, slower than 3.5 -> higher chance, faster than 3.5 -> lower chance. For your weapon speed / defender speed slower than 3.5 means lower chance per hit, faster than 3.5 means higher chance per hit.
In all cases if you and your opponent have the same weapon speed it will cancel itself out and the chance is 50% per hit.
This should mostly be visible in case of fast offhand hits vs 2h, those hits will trigger it less often and slow 2h vs 1h, the 2h hits will trigger it more often.
Just to make sure that we are understanding this correctly (with max Reflex Attack) ;
Scenario 1: Assassin dual wielder with fastest possible weapons Vs a Friar with slowest possible 2h staff = lower chance to proc Reflex Attack
Scenario 2: Warrior with slowest possible 2hander attacking a Blademaster dual wielding (or single wield) fastest possible weapons = higher chance to proc Reflex Attack.
Is that correct?
Thu 23 May 2019 6:25 PM
by
gruenesschaf
gruenesschaf
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑Thu 23 May 2019 5:10 PMJust to make sure that we are understanding this correctly (with max Reflex Attack) ;
Scenario 1: Assassin dual wielder with fastest possible weapons Vs a Friar with slowest possible 2h staff = lower chance to proc Reflex Attack
Scenario 2: Warrior with slowest possible 2hander attacking a Blademaster dual wielding (or single wield) fastest possible weapons = higher chance to proc Reflex Attack.
Is that correct?
yes, per attack that is
Thu 23 May 2019 6:25 PM
by
Sektor
Thu 23 May 2019 8:57 PM
by
Fames
Tested it today in RvR. Not even worth 5 points for me anymore. Will just go IP, MoP and Aug Dex instead
BR
Funus
BR
Funus
Thu 23 May 2019 9:25 PM
by
Mavella
Bravo to a logical change. This RA is still good but obviously isn't going to be spend my first 30 points on it while completely ignoring core RAs(purge, IP, Mop, Aug dex) good anymore.
Thu 23 May 2019 9:38 PM
by
Dramead
thanatosdaoc wrote: ↑Sun 5 May 2019 9:58 AMCan we please just remove this idiotic Realm Ability? - How is it fair to give classes a passive 50% unstyled swing when hit damageshield? - This is the stuff that makes bad players being able to kill much better players in few seconds and theres no real counter to it if ur a melee - especially on Friars and Zerkers with 2H - It's utter disgusting. And now I begin to see Merc abuse it aswell, it's a stupid RA' it takes no skill and needs to be in the very least looked at. It can't be a passive ability, if you put it on a timer that shows when it's being used and it then have a downtime - then np / but this bullshit has to have an end. It ruins solo play!
Rock ,paper, scissors .. LOL fair ... No counter to it if your melee ? Whats the counter to vanish ? whats a casters counter to melee ? Are you a player that thinks you should be able to kill anyone ? If so then you are a bad player. Everything should have a counter. Friars reflex is useless VS arrows and magic .. Thats the counter .. If you dont like reflex then play a caster. You might not mean it but you come off as like if you can't kill every other class in the game with ease then they should be nerfed ..
This game a long list of idiotic realm abilities .. Wonder which one the class you play has ...
Thu 23 May 2019 9:49 PM
by
Dramead
Yup so lets hurry up and nerf that.. ok on to the next .. Whats the counter to infi,SB,NS ? cause we need to nerf that real fast .. Oh wait it was friar and reflex attack.. NM check that off the list.
Thu 23 May 2019 10:05 PM
by
Sektor
Ok give friars dodger and all is forgiven
Thu 23 May 2019 10:11 PM
by
djegu
Dramead wrote: ↑Thu 23 May 2019 9:49 PMYup so lets hurry up and nerf that.. ok on to the next .. Whats the counter to infi,SB,NS ? cause we need to nerf that real fast .. Oh wait it was friar and reflex attack.. NM check that off the list.
I'm 100% sure that friar will still beat assassin within 2-3 RR gap, the rr3 friar able to solo 2 RR5 or 3 RR3 assassin is gone for sure.
I would love to see friar with PR or DI instead of RA
Thu 23 May 2019 10:20 PM
by
Dramead
1 ok thing about this nerf is I went and bought all thelvl 50+ staffs from the CM that were 3.0 and had LT procs and cost 150 gp and under. I am making a killing..
On a side note hoping someone does the math on how much aug quick ECT is needed with a 3.0 staff to cap RA speed.
On a side note hoping someone does the math on how much aug quick ECT is needed with a 3.0 staff to cap RA speed.
Thu 23 May 2019 10:26 PM
by
Blitze
Does anyone understand why Friars arnt getting a free /realm respec after the nerf?
Fri 24 May 2019 1:12 AM
by
Bradekes
Dramead wrote: ↑Thu 23 May 2019 10:20 PM1 ok thing about this nerf is I went and bought all thelvl 50+ staffs from the CM that were 3.0 and had LT procs and cost 150 gp and under. I am making a killing..
On a side note hoping someone does the math on how much aug quick ECT is needed with a 3.0 staff to cap RA speed.
250 qui and the 15% haste from pot makes 3.0 to 1.5
Fri 24 May 2019 1:33 AM
by
gotwqqd
ANY realm ability that you question to take over another is a good thing. It means that they are properly scaled.
Fri 24 May 2019 3:59 AM
by
Redattack
1. Why were classes with RA not given a free realm respec?
2. Why is this nerf necessary? Seriously, it fit perfectly within the whole concept of rock-paper-scissors balance, and now because a bunch of stealthers whined, the balance gets thrown off in their favor yet again. How dare stealthers have to pick their targets carefully, right? Why shouldn't stealthers be the only viable solo class? Why shouldn't they be able to take just about anyone 1v1? What an absolute joke of a change. I'm sorry, I've defended a lot of the less popular changes on this server, but this is just flat out insulting.
3. Given that stealthers can now once again confidently attack just about anyone and have a pretty solid chance of winning, completely throwing off the rock-paper-scissors balance style, I propose that we remove their defense penetration bonus from dual wielding, and keep that exclusively for BM/Merc/Zerks, and up the recast on vanish. As it stands now, stealthers can attack anyone of roughly equal or lower RR and stand a pretty solid chance of winning, and if not, they have the ability to vanish. It's frankly quite absurd that a class can pick its fights, be able to attack any other class and stand a good chance of beating any of them, and be able to vanish if they're losing.
TL;DR: Stop listening to whiny stealthers. Change RA back to normal, or nerf stealthers to a point where they have to pick their targets carefully and not just attack any tank or melee class with zero regard and vanish if they start losing. Either way, when significant RA/spec changes are made, affected classes should be given a free respec as a rule.
2. Why is this nerf necessary? Seriously, it fit perfectly within the whole concept of rock-paper-scissors balance, and now because a bunch of stealthers whined, the balance gets thrown off in their favor yet again. How dare stealthers have to pick their targets carefully, right? Why shouldn't stealthers be the only viable solo class? Why shouldn't they be able to take just about anyone 1v1? What an absolute joke of a change. I'm sorry, I've defended a lot of the less popular changes on this server, but this is just flat out insulting.
3. Given that stealthers can now once again confidently attack just about anyone and have a pretty solid chance of winning, completely throwing off the rock-paper-scissors balance style, I propose that we remove their defense penetration bonus from dual wielding, and keep that exclusively for BM/Merc/Zerks, and up the recast on vanish. As it stands now, stealthers can attack anyone of roughly equal or lower RR and stand a pretty solid chance of winning, and if not, they have the ability to vanish. It's frankly quite absurd that a class can pick its fights, be able to attack any other class and stand a good chance of beating any of them, and be able to vanish if they're losing.
TL;DR: Stop listening to whiny stealthers. Change RA back to normal, or nerf stealthers to a point where they have to pick their targets carefully and not just attack any tank or melee class with zero regard and vanish if they start losing. Either way, when significant RA/spec changes are made, affected classes should be given a free respec as a rule.
Fri 24 May 2019 5:38 AM
by
jelzinga_EU
People who compare this to Vanish: Vanish is an active RA which allows the assassin to escape (most of the times).
The "counter" to that is already baked into the RA, as it disarms the assassin. If you find him within 30 secs (not impossible) he can't do anything. If you find him for the next 15 mins, he will not be able to use it again.
Compare that to Reflex Attack, it is passive and attacking a friar with any decent template and Reflex-Attack 5 was a clear death-sentence to certain classes as it boosted the friar his dmg-output by >75% in some cases. Passively and since it triggered even when the friar was stunned or evaded/parried there was no real counter-play except "avoid and do not attack".
The fact loads of friars where taking this RA before core-abilities and you have a metric ton of movies and screenshots available showing how stupid this RA was. Sure, it might be that some friars will QQ how the friar is now bottom of the bottom, but more likely than not you where never really good at playing a friar. In it's current form on Phoenix it is a very good class and much stronger (relatively) than it was in this era. You got healprocs, improved weapon-damage, top-notch buffs (in an environment where most of your enemies will have substantially lower buffs), major heals, back-snare. The class itself isn't the problem, maybe the problem was the expectations on the player his/her end or the fact you think such an RA was "balanced".
The "counter" to that is already baked into the RA, as it disarms the assassin. If you find him within 30 secs (not impossible) he can't do anything. If you find him for the next 15 mins, he will not be able to use it again.
Compare that to Reflex Attack, it is passive and attacking a friar with any decent template and Reflex-Attack 5 was a clear death-sentence to certain classes as it boosted the friar his dmg-output by >75% in some cases. Passively and since it triggered even when the friar was stunned or evaded/parried there was no real counter-play except "avoid and do not attack".
The fact loads of friars where taking this RA before core-abilities and you have a metric ton of movies and screenshots available showing how stupid this RA was. Sure, it might be that some friars will QQ how the friar is now bottom of the bottom, but more likely than not you where never really good at playing a friar. In it's current form on Phoenix it is a very good class and much stronger (relatively) than it was in this era. You got healprocs, improved weapon-damage, top-notch buffs (in an environment where most of your enemies will have substantially lower buffs), major heals, back-snare. The class itself isn't the problem, maybe the problem was the expectations on the player his/her end or the fact you think such an RA was "balanced".
Fri 24 May 2019 6:23 AM
by
Druth
jelzinga_EU wrote: ↑Fri 24 May 2019 5:38 AMthere was no real counter-play except "avoid and do not attack".
You know what my RM's counterattack to assassins is?
Avoid them. Problem is, that avoiding them means never solo'ing.
I don't mind the nerf, friars will still do fine vs. assassins.
What I do mind is the cries from assassins who wants balance when they can't beat something, but not the other way around.
Fri 24 May 2019 7:14 AM
by
Sepplord
Druth wrote: ↑Fri 24 May 2019 6:23 AMjelzinga_EU wrote: ↑Fri 24 May 2019 5:38 AMthere was no real counter-play except "avoid and do not attack".
You know what my RM's counterattack to assassins is?
Avoid them. Problem is, that avoiding them means never solo'ing.
I don't mind the nerf, friars will still do fine vs. assassins.
What I do mind is the cries from assassins who wants balance when they can't beat something, but not the other way around.
When assassins get as useful in groups as RMs we can talk about making RMs as viable solo as assassins are... That's just a horrible comparison.
As you said Friars will still beat assassins if all else is equal. The friars that jumped the fotm train and don't know how to play besides killing enemies while being stunned will be gone again, while the friars that were there before will still run around daring any stealther to attack them
Assassins also don't bitch about everyone they are disadvantaged against...where are the whine posts about champs for example. I can't talk from expereince about thanes, but the ones i talked to claim to beat assasins pretty easily and that they like getting attacked by them and that they are sad that more and more are stopping to attack them...
If anyone would actually care to look at the history of this server, what they have done/tried against assassins, and how the patching overall has gone can't come to the conclusion that the DEVs like stealthers. They don't. They even tried hardlimiting the amount in Beta to not allow too many. There are other so called "whine"-threads about SBs being disadvantaged VS other assassins, even with gruenes admitting that he personally agrees, yet nothing has changed. Looking at the population that's maybe fine, maybe not...i don't think about it too much anymore...but if they simply listened to assassin-whines like some individuals here like to parrot then we would have had completly different changes
Fri 24 May 2019 7:35 AM
by
Druth
Sepplord wrote: ↑Fri 24 May 2019 7:14 AMWhen assassins get as useful in groups as RMs we can talk about making RMs as viable solo as assassins are... That's just a horrible comparison.
As you said Friars will still beat assassins if all else is equal. The friars that jumped the fotm train and don't know how to play besides killing enemies while being stunned will be gone again, while the friars that were there before will still run around daring any stealther to attack them
That's a stealth vs. group viability discussion. You have stealth, and give up group viability (unless you happen to be born a minstrel).
The discussion is should there be classes/archtypes you can not beat 1v1?
And yeah, all those friars. They were everywhere!
Sepplord wrote: ↑Fri 24 May 2019 7:14 AMAssassins also don't bitch about everyone they are disadvantaged against...where are the whine posts about champs for example. I can't talk from expereince about thanes, but the ones i talked to claim to beat assasins pretty easily and that they like getting attacked by them and that they are sad that more and more are stopping to attack them...
You are correct, sorry.
Guess I am frustrated at the amount of assassins I see, and then focus on the few nerf assassin posts they attack, and the few nerf posts they make.
I did though see posts pop up about hunter pets hitting to hard already
Sepplord wrote: ↑Fri 24 May 2019 7:14 AMIf anyone would actually care to look at the history of this server, what they have done/tried against assassins, and how the patching overall has gone can't come to the conclusion that the DEVs like stealthers. They don't. They even tried hardlimiting the amount in Beta to not allow too many. There are other so called "whine"-threads about SBs being disadvantaged VS other assassins, even with gruenes admitting that he personally agrees, yet nothing has changed. Looking at the population that's maybe fine, maybe not...i don't think about it too much anymore...but if they simply listened to assassin-whines like some individuals here like to parrot then we would have had completly different changes
The hardlimit in Beta was so people would test visibel classes as well, it was a testing phase.
What confuses me though, is that despite stealthers reaching 50% of pop at times, the Devs did not see the risk of this pattern continuing after launch.
It's not as much that the patching favours assassins, as much as it's the server as a whole that favours stealth.
Fast leveling (hard as a sin), easy temping (is usually a nightmare for sins), strong stealth combined with vanish, but most importantly constant zerging.
Even if a visi were around that could insta kill sins from 2000 range, they would still be unplayable due to fg's rolling them.
I do have hopes though, that the new archer stealth detection might even out the stealth field a bit.
Fri 24 May 2019 7:59 AM
by
Hejjin
I put in extensive testing yesterday with crafted 3.0, 4.2 and my sidi 5.6 speed staff, sadly there are no 3.5 speed crafted staves ;-(. Even with a 3.0 staff the performance of RA was incredibly poor, personally I believe it is worth between 5 and 10 RP for RA5, certainly it is not worth anything close to 30 points.Fames wrote: ↑Thu 23 May 2019 8:57 PMTested it today in RvR. Not even worth 5 points for me anymore. Will just go IP, MoP and Aug Dex instead
BR
Funus
A free respec would be nice, then I would revert back to my previous mopain, moparry, aug dex and IP build.
Fri 24 May 2019 8:39 AM
by
Hejjin
I tested this yesterday with a crafted 3.0 staff with the same stats and an ablative proc as my sidi Brazen Stout Defender staff (5.6 spd), the crafted 3.0 staff, even with haste, it performed very poorly when compared to pre-nerf RA5. I do not believe that haste from pots, has any affect on RA attacks.Bradekes wrote: ↑Fri 24 May 2019 1:12 AMDramead wrote: ↑Thu 23 May 2019 10:20 PM1 ok thing about this nerf is I went and bought all thelvl 50+ staffs from the CM that were 3.0 and had LT procs and cost 150 gp and under. I am making a killing..
On a side note hoping someone does the math on how much aug quick ECT is needed with a 3.0 staff to cap RA speed.
250 qui and the 15% haste from pot makes 3.0 to 1.5
Fri 24 May 2019 8:43 AM
by
Sepplord
Well, we get stealth for giving up groupabilty...if we didn't do that RMs would shit on us.Druth wrote: ↑Fri 24 May 2019 7:35 AMThat's a stealth vs. group viability discussion. You have stealth, and give up group viability (unless you happen to be born a minstrel).
The discussion is should there be classes/archtypes you can not beat 1v1?
But yeah, the main problem isn't having an unbeatable class-matchup. All things equal, friars will still mop the floor with assassins unless RNG goes heavily against them.
And yeah, all those friars. They were everywhere!
between AMG and APK...yes they were everywhere ^^
but yeah, not much will change...the FOTM joiners will be gone
No worries, i know you are one of the more reasonable posters here. I generally agree with most of what you say, or at least can follow your reasoning.You are correct, sorry.
Guess I am frustrated at the amount of assassins I see, and then focus on the few nerf assassin posts they attack, and the few nerf posts they make.
I did though see posts pop up about hunter pets hitting to hard already
I do have hopes though, that the new archer stealth detection might even out the stealth field a bit.
Might happen, then it's good. I just hope it won't favor primarily the stealthzergs
To the friars testing it with faster staffs: yes ofcourse it isn't comaprable to before-Nerf slow-staff proccrate. That's the point of the nerf. The point wasn't to force you into a faster staff and then using RA jsut as before.
The point was to make it balanced across different weaponspeed and bring it in line with all other proccs, active and reactive, ingame.
Fri 24 May 2019 8:54 AM
by
Druth
Thank for responding, guess we are fairly close in agreement, with minor differences
And I agree, the outrage from the nerf is to much.
But I think the outrage stems from visibel frustration at how hard it is to solo.
Hastener tokens to non-stealth chars would really be nice.
Fri 24 May 2019 9:06 AM
by
Hejjin
No, they were not. The number of Friars has increased massively since the assassins started whining about RA (Streisand Effect), however that increase in Friar numbers has had little to no impact on Solo kills as recorded by the Herald, regardless of whether you look, or rather looked, at 48, this week, last week, or all time, the number of Friars in the top 250 solo kills was very low.Sepplord wrote: ↑Fri 24 May 2019 8:43 AMbetween AMG and APK...yes they were everywhere ^^
but yeah, not much will change...the FOTM joiners will be gone
The point of testing with a faster staff was to try to determine if it was implemented correctly when compared to the formula that is posted in dicord (well supposedly, I saw the formula in Albion advice chat), where a 3.5 speed weapon performs the best. It was also to determine if RA is worth using in PvE farming, the answer is not at 30 points, personally I believe it is hard to justify spending 10 points on something that performs this poorly.To the friars testing it with faster staffs: yes ofcourse it isn't comaprable to before-Nerf slow-staff proccrate. That's the point of the nerf. The point wasn't to force you into a faster staff and then using RA jsut as before.
The point was to make it balanced across different weaponspeed and bring it in line with all other proccs, active and reactive, ingame.
Fri 24 May 2019 9:09 AM
by
Hejjin
My frustration is that a respec option was not provided, I can and will just go back to my previous build, I had hardly been RvR'ing on my Friar (Dhavon) in the last month anyway.Druth wrote: ↑Fri 24 May 2019 8:54 AM
Thank for responding, guess we are fairly close in agreement, with minor differences
And I agree, the outrage from the nerf is to much.
But I think the outrage stems from visibel frustration at how hard it is to solo.
Hastener tokens to non-stealth chars would really be nice.
Fri 24 May 2019 9:13 AM
by
gruenesschaf
gruenesschaf
Hejjin wrote: ↑Fri 24 May 2019 8:39 AMI tested this yesterday with a crafted 3.0 staff with the same stats and an ablative proc as my sidi Brazen Stout Defender staff (5.6 spd), the crafted 3.0 staff, even with haste, it performed very poorly when compared to pre-nerf RA5. I do not believe that haste from pots, has any affect on RA attacks.
Then you either tested it wrong (aka too few hits and unlucky or counting evades), or you tested it against a mob with a fast attack rate. Most mobs here have a base 3.5 attack rate, meaning with a 3.0 staff you have a higher proc chance than before the change against most mobs.
Fri 24 May 2019 9:27 AM
by
Hejjin
I tested it against Orange Pitch Skeletons in Gwyddneau, I had attack off, and did not count evades as they never resulted in a RA proc. Yes, perhaps the RNG gods frowned at me for about half an hour of testing with a 3.0 staff...I will repeat the tests today over an extended period of time. Out of interest, have you actually tested this in game?gruenesschaf wrote: ↑Fri 24 May 2019 9:13 AMHejjin wrote: ↑Fri 24 May 2019 8:39 AMI tested this yesterday with a crafted 3.0 staff with the same stats and an ablative proc as my sidi Brazen Stout Defender staff (5.6 spd), the crafted 3.0 staff, even with haste, it performed very poorly when compared to pre-nerf RA5. I do not believe that haste from pots, has any affect on RA attacks.
Then you either tested it wrong (aka too few hits and unlucky or counting evades), or you tested it against a mob with a fast attack rate. Most mobs here have a base 3.5 attack rate, meaning with a 3.0 staff you have a higher proc chance than before the change against most mobs.
Fri 24 May 2019 9:42 AM
by
gruenesschaf
gruenesschaf
Hejjin wrote: ↑Fri 24 May 2019 9:27 AMI tested it against Orange Pitch Skeletons in Gwyddneau, I had attack off, and did not count evades as they never resulted in a RA proc. Yes, perhaps the RNG gods frowned at me for about half an hour of testing with a 3.0 staff...I will repeat the tests today over an extended period of time. Out of interest, have you actually tested this in game?gruenesschaf wrote: ↑Fri 24 May 2019 9:13 AMHejjin wrote: ↑Fri 24 May 2019 8:39 AMI tested this yesterday with a crafted 3.0 staff with the same stats and an ablative proc as my sidi Brazen Stout Defender staff (5.6 spd), the crafted 3.0 staff, even with haste, it performed very poorly when compared to pre-nerf RA5. I do not believe that haste from pots, has any affect on RA attacks.
Then you either tested it wrong (aka too few hits and unlucky or counting evades), or you tested it against a mob with a fast attack rate. Most mobs here have a base 3.5 attack rate, meaning with a 3.0 staff you have a higher proc chance than before the change against most mobs.
Yes and I even tested it locally and watched the actual number getting passed to the rng (which was 50 before) and it's exactly as expected.
Fri 24 May 2019 10:00 AM
by
Hejjin
On a Friar? hmm...gruenesschaf wrote: ↑Fri 24 May 2019 9:42 AMHejjin wrote: ↑Fri 24 May 2019 9:27 AMI tested it against Orange Pitch Skeletons in Gwyddneau, I had attack off, and did not count evades as they never resulted in a RA proc. Yes, perhaps the RNG gods frowned at me for about half an hour of testing with a 3.0 staff...I will repeat the tests today over an extended period of time. Out of interest, have you actually tested this in game?gruenesschaf wrote: ↑Fri 24 May 2019 9:13 AMThen you either tested it wrong (aka too few hits and unlucky or counting evades), or you tested it against a mob with a fast attack rate. Most mobs here have a base 3.5 attack rate, meaning with a 3.0 staff you have a higher proc chance than before the change against most mobs.
Yes and I even tested it locally and watched the actual number getting passed to the rng (which was 50 before) and it's exactly as expected.
Fri 24 May 2019 10:06 AM
by
Sepplord
Hejjin wrote: ↑Fri 24 May 2019 9:06 AMNo, they were not. The number of Friars has increased massively since the assassins started whining about RA (Streisand Effect), however that increase in Friar numbers has had little to no impact on Solo kills as recorded by the Herald, regardless of whether you look, or rather looked, at 48, this week, last week, or all time, the number of Friars in the top 250 solo kills was very low.
Why would the number of friars on solokills increase if there are a) more friars running around, adding with impunity and b) less stealthers attacking friars because it is pointless? The amount didn'T only increase becasue of the streisand effect, but that ofcourse accelerated the increase. Friars running around laugh emoting into the emtiness for 10minutes without being attacked until the midzerg rolls through again doesn't increase their solo-kill stats
Okay, thanks for explaining, if there was a discussion on albside about that specific topic it makes sense. A few comments her still sounded as if they were comparing it to strength before nerf, which didn't make sense to me in the context of the nerf and this thread.The point of testing with a faster staff was to try to determine if it was implemented correctly when compared to the formula that is posted in dicord (well supposedly, I saw the formula in Albion advice chat), where a 3.5 speed weapon performs the best. It was also to determine if RA is worth using in PvE farming, the answer is not at 30 points, personally I believe it is hard to justify spending 10 points on something that performs this poorly.
Fri 24 May 2019 10:43 AM
by
Bradekes
Hejjin wrote: ↑Fri 24 May 2019 8:39 AMI tested this yesterday with a crafted 3.0 staff with the same stats and an ablative proc as my sidi Brazen Stout Defender staff (5.6 spd), the crafted 3.0 staff, even with haste, it performed very poorly when compared to pre-nerf RA5. I do not believe that haste from pots, has any affect on RA attacks.Bradekes wrote: ↑Fri 24 May 2019 1:12 AMDramead wrote: ↑Thu 23 May 2019 10:20 PM1 ok thing about this nerf is I went and bought all thelvl 50+ staffs from the CM that were 3.0 and had LT procs and cost 150 gp and under. I am making a killing..
On a side note hoping someone does the math on how much aug quick ECT is needed with a 3.0 staff to cap RA speed.
250 qui and the 15% haste from pot makes 3.0 to 1.5
Well keep in mind your self haste will be much higher than the pots haste.. So if you're looking to hit speed cap you gotta do the math to hit it perfectly or you're going to gimp yourself... Haste and qui do not affect proc %, not sure hiw the new RA adjustment is coded.
For a regular proc the % stays the same so haste effects actually boost proc DPS or increasing healing/ablative rate over time. Procs are also adjusted on this server so certain types of procs have higher chances just based on the spell type.
As for the calculations for weapon speed:
Quickness caps at 250 for haste effect anything higher will lower your dps. Quickness at 250 is 40% haste. If your quickness stat is less than or equal to 60 you're at 0% haste. So the calculation I use is (Qui-60) ÷ 4.75=haste% for every 4.75points of quickness you get 1% haste.
To find weapon speed needed to hit cap you use this formula:
Seeings 1.5 is capped swing speed you use that as your base.
1.5 ÷ (1-quickness haste %) ÷ (1-buff haste%)
For our aboves example of 250 quickness(40% haste) and 15% potted haste it would look like this.
1.5 ÷ (1-0.40) ÷ (1-0.15) =2.94 meaning a 2.94speed weapon hits the 1.5 cap. If you have mastery of arms you just add another ÷ (1-(mastery of arms%)
If you calculate your self haste that lasts for 30s you just replaced the pot haste with that value as they don't stack
Fri 24 May 2019 11:35 AM
by
Hejjin
Did you miss all the posts on these forums that RA made Friars soloing beasts? If that was truly accurate then a substantial increase in Friars running RA5 should have resulted in an increase in the number of Friars in the solo kills top 250 over the last month, the reality is that it hardly had any effect. Assassins still attacked me on the few times I actually ventured out into RvR on my Friar (I was mostly using RA for PvE farming purposes), solo Skalds, Thanes, Champs etc still attacked my Friar and I presume other Solo Friars, so whilst assassins and Rangers might have been more wary about attacking Friars, the other classes weren't.Sepplord wrote: ↑Fri 24 May 2019 10:06 AMWhy would the number of friars on solokills increase if there are a) more friars running around, adding with impunity and b) less stealthers attacking friars because it is pointless? The amount didn'T only increase becasue of the streisand effect, but that ofcourse accelerated the increase. Friars running around laugh emoting into the emtiness for 10minutes without being attacked until the midzerg rolls through again doesn't increase their solo-kill stats
Fri 24 May 2019 11:43 AM
by
Hejjin
Apologies for any possible confusion, I was referring to haste pots, not self haste or a haste proc, I thought I had made that clear by saying I used an ablative proc on my crafted staves.Bradekes wrote: ↑Fri 24 May 2019 10:43 AMWell keep in mind your self haste will be much higher than the pots haste..
My quickness, with all self-buffs is 231, exactly the same as it was before the change.Bradekes wrote: ↑Fri 24 May 2019 10:43 AMSo if you're looking to hit speed cap you gotta do the math to hit it perfectly or you're going to gimp yourself... Haste and qui do not affect proc %, not sure hiw the new RA adjustment is coded.
For a regular proc the % stays the same so haste effects actually boost proc DPS or increasing healing/ablative rate over time. Procs are also adjusted on this server so certain types of procs have higher chances just based on the spell type.
As for the calculations for weapon speed:
Quickness caps at 250 for haste effect anything higher will lower your dps. Quickness at 250 is 40% haste. If your quickness stat is less than or equal to 60 you're at 0% haste. So the calculation I use is (Qui-60) ÷ 4.75=haste% for every 4.75points of quickness you get 1% haste.
To find weapon speed needed to hit cap you use this formula:
Seeings 1.5 is capped swing speed you use that as your base.
1.5 ÷ (1-quickness haste %) ÷ (1-buff haste%)
For our aboves example of 250 quickness(40% haste) and 15% potted haste it would look like this.
1.5 ÷ (1-0.40) ÷ (1-0.15) =2.94 meaning a 2.94speed weapon hits the 1.5 cap. If you have mastery of arms you just add another ÷ (1-(mastery of arms%)
If you calculate your self haste that lasts for 30s you just replaced the pot haste with that value as they don't stack
Fri 24 May 2019 11:53 AM
by
Sepplord
Hejjin wrote: ↑Fri 24 May 2019 11:35 AMDid you miss all the posts on these forums that RA made Friars soloing beasts? If that was truly accurate then a substantial increase in Friars running RA5 should have resulted in an increase in the number of Friars in the solo kills top 250 over the last month, the reality is that it hardly had any effect. Assassins still attacked me on the few times I actually ventured out into RvR on my Friar (I was mostly using RA for PvE farming purposes), solo Skalds, Thanes, Champs etc still attacked my Friar and I presume other Solo Friars, so whilst assassins and Rangers might have been more wary about attacking Friars, the other classes weren't.Sepplord wrote: ↑Fri 24 May 2019 10:06 AMWhy would the number of friars on solokills increase if there are a) more friars running around, adding with impunity and b) less stealthers attacking friars because it is pointless? The amount didn'T only increase becasue of the streisand effect, but that ofcourse accelerated the increase. Friars running around laugh emoting into the emtiness for 10minutes without being attacked until the midzerg rolls through again doesn't increase their solo-kill stats
why do you think i missed those threads? seriously? what makes you think that?
I can only repeat/reword my previous argument, since i guess it wasn't understandable to you: "If a bunch of "solo-friars" riding the RA-train start patrolling between AMG and APK, then that doesn't neccesarily lead to more solo-kills. All they did was patrol the road adding onto assasins that tried getting a fast kill on someone else. Friars aren't fast killers, unless the assassin kept attacking...which most stopped doing...aka fight took long-->add.
The more of these friars there are, the higher the chance that they will not get a solo-fight. Herald-statisitcs are reallyreallyreally bad to draw balancing conclusions from.
All friars that didn't simply jump on the FOTM-train will be completely fine and still an enemy that i do not really want to fight. Those are also primarily the friars i don't see QQing much here
Other classes also weren't as effected by the RA and VS them RA wasn't nerfed much. The contrary happened, against slow-2H weapon users RA with a fast staff was buffed if i understand schaf correctly. Why would an RA that is broken against fast attacking dualwielders suddenly make friars beat skalds/thanes/champs more?
If you and your enemy have the same attackspeed and both use 2h, then you will have the 50% proccrate just as you did before.
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑Thu 23 May 2019 3:54 PMIn all cases if you and your opponent have the same weapon speed it will cancel itself out and the chance is 50% per hit.
Fri 24 May 2019 12:11 PM
by
Hejjin
Because of the following portion of your sentence :Sepplord wrote: ↑Fri 24 May 2019 11:53 AMwhy do you think i missed those threads? seriously? what makes you think that?
Sepplord wrote: ↑Fri 24 May 2019 10:06 AMWhy would the number of friars on solokills increase if there are a) more friars running around,
It may be a time zone issue, but I never saw large number of solo friars patrolling between apk and amg when I went into the frontiers, personally I always found those to be absolutely crap places to have 1 v 1 fights as it was almost guaranteed that someone would add to the fight.Sepplord wrote: ↑Fri 24 May 2019 10:06 AMI can only repeat/reword my previous argument, since i guess it wasn't understandable to you: "If a bunch of "solo-friars" riding the RA-train start patrolling between AMG and APK, then that doesn't neccesarily lead to more solo-kills. All they did was patrol the road adding onto assasins that tried getting a fast kill on someone else. Friars aren't fast killers, unless the assassin kept attacking...which most stopped doing...aka fight took long-->add.
The more of these friars there are, the higher the chance that they will not get a solo-fight. Herald-statisitcs are reallyreallyreally bad to draw balancing conclusions from.
All friars that didn't simply jump on the FOTM-train will be completely fine and still an enemy that i do not really want to fight. Those are also primarily the friars i don't see QQing much here
My references to other classes was from before the nerf, not since.Sepplord wrote: ↑Fri 24 May 2019 10:06 AMOther classes also weren't as effected by the RA and VS them RA wasn't nerfed much. The contrary happened, against slow-2H weapon users RA with a fast staff was buffed if i understand schaf correctly. Why would an RA that is broken against fast attacking dualwielders suddenly make friars beat skalds/thanes/champs more?
If you and your enemy have the same attackspeed and both use 2h, then you will have the 50% proccrate just as you did before.gruenesschaf wrote: ↑Thu 23 May 2019 3:54 PMIn all cases if you and your opponent have the same weapon speed it will cancel itself out and the chance is 50% per hit.
Fri 24 May 2019 12:39 PM
by
Lillebror
Would an Assassin speccing 0 stealth (merc inf, shadowzerk, bm ns) get any spots in a fg?
They can get det9 and usefull styles too, can even debuff ws/con, str, snare and disease for the train too.
Still a big NO.
They can get det9 and usefull styles too, can even debuff ws/con, str, snare and disease for the train too.
Still a big NO.
Fri 24 May 2019 3:04 PM
by
Cadebrennus
Lillebror wrote: ↑Fri 24 May 2019 12:39 PMWould an Assassin speccing 0 stealth (merc inf, shadowzerk, bm ns) get any spots in a fg?
They can get det9 and usefull styles too, can even debuff ws/con, str, snare and disease for the train too.
Still a big NO.
Off topic, but I always wondered about that. They could be extremely useful to a tank train (or even as a way to reduce incoming enemy tank effectiveness). I know they have fewer hp and lighter armour, but is it simply cognitive bias or actual worse effectiveness in a group that would prevent such a character from getting into a Visi group?
Fri 24 May 2019 4:55 PM
by
majky666
Dramead wrote: ↑Thu 23 May 2019 10:20 PM1 ok thing about this nerf is I went and bought all thelvl 50+ staffs from the CM that were 3.0 and had LT procs and cost 150 gp and under. I am making a killing..
On a side note hoping someone does the math on how much aug quick ECT is needed with a 3.0 staff to cap RA speed.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1G3YNfILQigMuZnNJ0439Wl2_04wZtVdaasd2bJsJa-8/edit#gid=0
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