Vanish/SoS - Make them only usable above x% health

Trying to think of ways to keep these RAs useful while removing the incredibly anti-fun situation of blowing all your long CD RAs on a fight only to have the opponent disappear. What about giving these RAs a health threshold that is required to use them, this way they can still be used to escape undesirable situations but cant be used towards the end of a fight. SoS would obviously still be useful on inc in group fights and to get inside sieged keeps etc.

Going further, I'd suggest having higher levels of the abilities reduce the health threshold, for example:
Level 1 70%
Level 2 60%
Level 3 50%
Level 4 35%
Level 5 20%

This would also add incentive to spec higher than level 1 or 2. If people really want to escape fights they're losing they still can, but they need to spend a lot to do it.

Sun 5 May 2019 8:56 AM by Luluko

this would render sos useless if you get pa'ed by a second character or shot by an archer no thanks its already hard enough to escape ganks

Sun 5 May 2019 9:04 AM by Lillebror

Remove super stealth and IF Assassin get popped they are no longer disarmed.

And remove the purge of dot/bleed and instead dont break stealth while Vanished.

Edit: im a Vanish hater but your suggestion make it impossible to get away from adds after a fight and that should be the main use of vanish.

Sun 5 May 2019 9:56 AM by ghendo

Maybe lower the thresholds then, start at 50%. I'd argue if someone gets the drop on you to that much advantage they deserve the kill. Stealth zergs and adds are always gonna happen

Allowing stealth lore pots to see through the "undetectable" stage is an option but I don't like the idea of bought items trumping RAs on principle.

Sun 5 May 2019 12:57 PM by Cadebrennus

Just make it usable only when the target they have attacked has died. This keeps the "assassinate" intent of the RA and the class without making it a get out of jail free card when they fuck it up.

Sun 5 May 2019 3:33 PM by majky666

ghendo wrote: ↑
Sun 5 May 2019 8:46 AM
Trying to think of ways to keep these RAs useful while removing the incredibly anti-fun situation of blowing all your long CD RAs on a fight only to have the opponent disappear. What about giving these RAs a health threshold that is required to use them, this way they can still be used to escape undesirable situations but cant be used towards the end of a fight. SoS would obviously still be useful on inc in group fights and to get inside sieged keeps etc.

Going further, I'd suggest having higher levels of the abilities reduce the health threshold, for example:
Level 1 70%
Level 2 60%
Level 3 50%
Level 4 35%
Level 5 20%

This would also add incentive to spec higher than level 1 or 2. If people really want to escape fights they're losing they still can, but they need to spend a lot to do it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtwWKtoZBs8

Sun 5 May 2019 5:35 PM by dbeattie71

I've probably had 25k in rps vanish away

Sun 5 May 2019 7:10 PM by Luluko

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Sun 5 May 2019 12:57 PM
Just make it usable only when the target they have attacked has died. This keeps the "assassinate" intent of the RA and the class without making it a get out of jail free card when they fuck it up.

if that change would happen the cooldown should be arround 5mins with those limitations you cant see other stealthers arround and if you bother attacking anything which isnt a caster and you cant drop it the 5ra points are just wasted you can then just delete the ra if the cooldown stays at 15mins

Sun 5 May 2019 7:17 PM by djegu

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Sun 5 May 2019 12:57 PM
Just make it usable only when the target they have attacked has died. This keeps the "assassinate" intent of the RA and the class without making it a get out of jail free card when they fuck it up.

No, for the sole reason that people add and zerg. People that use Vanish because they fucked up are lame, I saw inf/sb vanish after I PA them and it's lame BUT it's not the majority, most of stealther I know (including myself) use Vanish when we get added which occur 80% of the time because the mentality on this server is lame.

There is too much misconception about Vanish, most of people see the tip of the iceberg a.k.a they got vanished. And don't get me wrong Vanish is a powerful RA but not as much as people pretend to say.
I know you are a ranger and you don't have Vanish, but i would trade Vanish for IP in a heartbeat.

Sun 5 May 2019 7:57 PM by Lillebror

For ip to be something close as usefull he gotta spec atleast ip3

Do you spec Vanish any higher than 1.

If ppl had to invest atleast 10 points in Vanish ,let them keep it. Vanish as is at 5 points is to cheap for what it does

Sun 5 May 2019 8:46 PM by Sepplord

All active RAs should follow that Logic then...

Dumping CDs/RAs just for the enemy to MoC/ST/etc... is just as a waste. Even worse, since i get killed instead of my target running away.

Sun 5 May 2019 10:13 PM by Milchschnidde

They should simply increase the re-use timer to 20 minutes and move the purgeing effect to stage 2 or 3 .. thats all, so they have to spec at least vanish2 like all ppl do purge 2 at least for the removal of the activation timer till it triggers

Stage 1 20 minutes coolown no purge, (just unbreakable stealth +speed 3

Stage 2 20 minutes cooldown 3 - 5 seconds activation timer for purge +speed 4

stage 3 17 minutes with usual instant purge and stealth + speed 4
stage 4 15 minutes with usual instant purge and stealth + speed 5
stage 5 12 minutes with usual instant purge and stealth + speed 5

would be my suggestion ...

Mon 6 May 2019 8:12 AM by Lillebror

No point makeing it 5 levels, ppl do 1 or 2

Mon 6 May 2019 11:11 AM by Tool73

vanish kills much of the small actions, cause its useless to go on hunt for assasins. some guys hunt 24/7 in upland never get catched. well emain is a different story. would like to suppose to make stealth lore pot stronger, cause in the moment its useless. it just gives me the sight like i haved had on uthgard vs sneaks without any lore. Think stealth works in general a bit different here in pulsing and reach.

vote for lore pots work +500 and also working vs super stealth or give archers true sight RA as a counter to vanish.

Mon 6 May 2019 1:38 PM by Tillbeast

I would be ok with nerfing vanish as long as they nerf every other class's speciality RA to the point it becomes useless like half the suggestions made towards vanish.

An assassin needs a tool that he can use to escape unwanted attention. It don't matter how that attention is gained, be it an additional attacker or a bad choice of target. The class is designed around solo play, it does not have the tools to deal with additional attackers, no instant cc nor a large amount of hit points. Once an assassins initial attack has happened his dps is not sustainable and he will more often than not lose a prolonged encounter versus a more heavily armoured dps class, not always. Vanish is also not as good as people think, once an assassin gets to low health vanish becomes exrtremely ineffective as once out of the increased speed he is so slow he is often found especially in busy areas.

The problem with assassins on phoenix there is just too many of them which makes the use of vanish heavily noticed. The server stealth rules heavily favour the assassin. Archers use to be able to keep assassins on their toes, they would spec heavily into melee and use high levels of ignore pain and with the equal stealth detection rules be able to give assassins a good fight. It was never an auto win for the melee archer, any assassin who landed his PA of had a very good chance to win although the archer had the chance just to outlast an assassin with their superior hit points. On phoenix however assassins have no fear of being spotted first so there is no class able to compete with them. Equal the stealth detection playing field, give archers some of their old tools back and there will be less assassins about to annoy visibles with vanish.

Mon 6 May 2019 4:57 PM by Lillebror

Vanish 1 for what it does is to cheap. I would let you keep it AS is at 5 more points

Tue 7 May 2019 5:33 AM by dbeattie71

Tillbeast wrote: ↑
Mon 6 May 2019 1:38 PM
I would be ok with nerfing vanish as long as they nerf every other class's speciality RA to the point it becomes useless like half the suggestions made towards vanish.

An assassin needs a tool that he can use to escape unwanted attention. It don't matter how that attention is gained, be it an additional attacker or a bad choice of target. The class is designed around solo play, it does not have the tools to deal with additional attackers, no instant cc nor a large amount of hit points. Once an assassins initial attack has happened his dps is not sustainable and he will more often than not lose a prolonged encounter versus a more heavily armoured dps class, not always. Vanish is also not as good as people think, once an assassin gets to low health vanish becomes exrtremely ineffective as once out of the increased speed he is so slow he is often found especially in busy areas.

The problem with assassins on phoenix there is just too many of them which makes the use of vanish heavily noticed. The server stealth rules heavily favour the assassin. Archers use to be able to keep assassins on their toes, they would spec heavily into melee and use high levels of ignore pain and with the equal stealth detection rules be able to give assassins a good fight. It was never an auto win for the melee archer, any assassin who landed his PA of had a very good chance to win although the archer had the chance just to outlast an assassin with their superior hit points. On phoenix however assassins have no fear of being spotted first so there is no class able to compete with them. Equal the stealth detection playing field, give archers some of their old tools back and there will be less assassins about to annoy visibles with vanish.

I compete with them fine, 60% of fights I have with sins end in vanish becoz they’re we’re going to lose.

Tue 7 May 2019 7:46 AM by Tillbeast

Lillebror wrote: ↑
Mon 6 May 2019 4:57 PM
Vanish 1 for what it does is to cheap. I would let you keep it AS is at 5 more points

Then increase all other class's specialty RA's by 5.

Tue 7 May 2019 9:28 AM by Taniquetil

Groups and solos have their get out RA's

SoS does the same thing for the group/character but is on a shorter timer. It's frustrating having things vanish on you, but can only happen every 15 mins as opposed to 10 mins.

So many times i'm able to find the vanisher in those situations, whereas with SoS...cya

Realistically if this was a duelling server, vanish would be a broken RA, but with the Adds/zergs it's probably going to stay.