More incentive for bg leveling/rvr

Fix /rp off should add a few more.

It's currently not working - but is listed in bug report.

There's a lot more to test in this beta than just running in BGs - so in time.

Sun 29 Jul 2018 2:05 PM by Tyton

Well, of course we can talk about it ^_^

Just pointing out that until /rp off bug fixed might be a little dead.

Sun 29 Jul 2018 4:12 PM by Frigzy

Good point from OP.

I don't think /xp or /rp off are sustainable solutions to the BG popularity. You want people to choose BGs because they can progress in there, not because they refuse to progress.

Given the current state of PvE though, I find it hard to justify skipping regular PvE in favor of BGs if your aim is to hit 50.

If you want sustainable action in BGs, I can only think of increasing the XP bonus for both mobs and players even further than it currently stands. Basically, leveling through PvE or RvR should be -by a fair margin- the most rewarding option out there. People should feel like hitting 20 is almost equivalent to heading to the first BG.

That being said, it means that XP (and gear) progression of a relatively succesful player (can kill but doens't get killed too often) should be at higher than that of his time investment in safe PvE zones.

An additional benefit for succesfully capping out the BG in RPs (or taking the keep) could be a full set of gear. This is to compensate the swift progression through RvR without the amount of gear you would get killing mobs.

Sun 29 Jul 2018 4:21 PM by Quik

More BG's and more it so you can lvl exclusively through BG's from 1-50.

Add mobs and lets encourage some action.

I don't mind no /xp or /rp off, but give us something to level through BG's.

Give us the same bonus as frontiers with mobs that will let both small groups as well as large groups level.

Giving us a reason to goto BG's to level will just mean more people will start RvRing earlier and getting addicted.

Also add a bigger bonus for defending CK to encourage people to actually defend instead of waiting to swap.

Sun 29 Jul 2018 4:26 PM by Tyton

I'm indifferent. There is already a bonus, but the fact is you level so fast at 20-24, for instance, that there's not much time spent in Thid. And in other zones you can progress (move on to the next camp) where as BG you go for couple levels, then you have to leave. Maybe a further bonus would make a bigger BG pop (if only for very short periods of time), but I believe /rp off adds more people. No one is saying you have to /rp off, but the option for even a handful of people will keep some pop there. Higher drop rates, etc combined with fixing /rp off could help a lot.

Sun 29 Jul 2018 4:32 PM by Quik

Thid isn't bad, but only having a few BG's just makes me forget which are available.

If they did it for every 4 levels then I wouldn't have to worry about it.

Sun 29 Jul 2018 4:34 PM by Ganaka

IMHO... Turning off XP should remove the RP cap. Turning on XP again would reinstate the RP cap.

The RP gained at BG's are so low, that it would take 20 years for someone to reach RR10 in a BG, give or take..

Sun 29 Jul 2018 4:52 PM by Tyton

Frigzy wrote: ↑
Sun 29 Jul 2018 4:12 PM
I don't think /xp or /rp off are sustainable solutions to the BG popularity. You want people to choose BGs because they can progress in there, not because they refuse to progress.

What if they choose it for both reasons? Seems like a win/win to me.

Sun 29 Jul 2018 5:38 PM by Rabbitstew

I'd like to have both /xp off and /rp off so that I can stay in Thid (or other BGs) for longer. Granted, I have a HUGE bias in this regard, because I loved Thid on live back in the day. I remember a simple /level 20, some XP'ing to 24 to learn the class, and bam - RvR time.

My reasons really come down to 2 things: simple and fast RvR, and new-player friendly.

Simple and Fast RvR - Sometimes I'm not feeling up to "big boy" RvR, with all of its complexity. Keeping track of dozens of skills (for both you and enemy's), along with high RR abilities, can make for stimulating gameplay that requires hard concentration. But sometimes, maybe after a particularly harsh day at work, I don't want my RvR to be so complex and just want to some simple low-lvl RvR. Stakes are low (ain't losing a relic or keep), pressure is low (no hot-heads chasing them RPs), action is fast (small map and minimal downtime), and it's just all-around less complex. Good for my dumb, tired brain.

New-Player Friendly - I have a really hard time convincing anyone (who has never played) to play DAOC to lvl 50 to finally enjoy the great RvR. They all get burnt out on the monotonous PvE grind which is relatively poor compared to other games, and I can't blame them. My nostalgia glasses are thick and I know that the end result is worth it - but they don't. Early BGs allow new players to experience the joys of RvR, to get them to realize DAOC's potential and give them a reason to keep pushing along the grindwheel. Sad thing is, once they pass the cap XP or RP (which can be REALLY fast due to low-lvl), the mountain that is PvE grind appears once again. This is the point I lose almost everyone. I don't even care if they wouldn't have ever came out of Thid to higher RvR, because at least they'd be playing and adding population to a BG.

So, I'd like /xp off and /rp off. It'd keep me (and assuming others) in BGs, which would help their population. For me, it sets up the perfect reason to play DAOC - to RvR, and nothing else. Nobody leveling up, nobody chasing Realm Ranks, just RvR for the pleasure of RvR.

Sun 29 Jul 2018 5:55 PM by Quik

I agree with you Rabbit, but the dev's have already stated they don't want people to hang around lower BG's. The only thing about this server I have issues with is how other people want to force you to play in big boy RvR. A lot of players as well as GM's. If people here had their choice you would /auto lvl to 50 if you try to stay in PvE to long and auto log in Emain.

Personally I wish everyone would just let people play how THEY want to play and how THEY want to have fun. Being force fed one type of RvR is not fun for me but we'll see what happens.

I love everything else about the server and GM's except this one thing, but it's a biggie.

Sun 29 Jul 2018 6:26 PM by Tyton

If we've learned anything from Uth2.0, it's that forcing anyone to play a certain way or in other words, "focus on this content not that content" leads to problems. I personally like to focus on all aspects of the game. But I do agree it's nice to log into a BG and get some action when you're only looking at 1hr of playtime some nights - if BGs are dead this is not possible.

Sun 29 Jul 2018 7:33 PM by Quik

I really think we should have 1-4/5-9 BG's exactly FOR the new players. Let them get going early and see what its like before it starts getting tough.

Sun 29 Jul 2018 7:40 PM by Frigzy

Just for the record here, I'm not opposed to having /rp and /xp off. I believe they should be in since some players will simply prefer to stay in BGs forever, with or without the commands. No need to force them into rerolling.

Tyton wrote: ↑
Sun 29 Jul 2018 4:26 PM
I'm indifferent. There is already a bonus, but the fact is you level so fast at 20-24, for instance, that there's not much time spent in Thid. And in other zones you can progress (move on to the next camp) where as BG you go for couple levels, then you have to leave.

What you say is interesting though. 20-24 isn't a lot of time spent XPing at all if you're in a decent group. Even with the quicker teleports, it sometimes just isn't worth going to BGs because it's too much moving around if you're already in a decent zone.

It might be an interesting idea to open up Thidranki from level 15 to 24 and to only have one BG after that from 25 to 34. This way, spending time early on in the BGs would provide you with massive XP benefits if you could get a kill on a high level player. Also, the level range is large enough to consider staying in the BG as a viable way to progress your character.

Broadening the level ranges and making the BGs more attractive both for XP as for Gear would eventually create a realistic training ground for playstyles that can later (at levels 35+) be used in the Frontiers by players who have the balls to XP through RvR from levels 15-50.

In my opinion, leveling through RvRing from the beginning of the BGs to 50 should -at least in theory- be more than a viable option if you know what you're doing. As long as you feel like you're wasting time RvRing (in terms of XP progression) this simply won't work.

Quik wrote: I really think we should have 1-4/5-9 BG's exactly FOR the new players. Let them get going early and see what its like before it starts getting tough.

I don't think this is a good idea because it will only thin out the BG population even more. In turn, this will create the perception that BGs are a waste of time. Keeping it simple and accessible seems to me to be the better option.

I do agree that simple RvR should be easily accessible though.

Sun 29 Jul 2018 8:14 PM by Quik

Why would it thin out the BG population? Shouldn't impact it at all since every BG has a different lvl range. Having different lvl ranges simply allows players to BG more because they won't really outlvl the BG's. By only having thid and a couple others, people don't know when they can BG. Have BG's for every 4 levels means you can goto a porter at any level and port to the BG.

Mon 30 Jul 2018 7:24 AM by Frigzy

Quik wrote: ↑
Sun 29 Jul 2018 8:14 PM
Why would it thin out the BG population? Shouldn't impact it at all since every BG has a different lvl range. Having different lvl ranges simply allows players to BG more because they won't really outlvl the BG's. By only having thid and a couple others, people don't know when they can BG. Have BG's for every 4 levels means you can goto a porter at any level and port to the BG.

It thins it out because players often do not play alone. By having such small level ranges, you will end up with players over the caps quite fast, breaking the group up.

Also, because -especially at low levels- the level range is so easily surpassed by simply exping, the 50RPs you can get by going there are not worth the effort at all. Most people will pass them by and the first BGs that are actually populated are around level 20.

I've seen it happen in other freeshards and there's good reason it will happen here as well.

That being said, the question of level ranges in my opinion is more of a detail. What's more important is enticing players to enter the BGs in the first place. I've written a suggestion here: https://playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1237

Fri 3 Aug 2018 6:36 PM by Anaethema

Quik wrote: ↑
Sun 29 Jul 2018 5:55 PM
Personally I wish everyone would just let people play how THEY want to play and how THEY want to have fun. Being force fed one type of RvR is not fun for me but we'll see what happens.

I love everything else about the server and GM's except this one thing, but it's a biggie.

This.. 1000x THIS!! Stop forcing players into playing a certain way and just let them decide what THEY enjoy about the game. Having /RP and XP off isn't going to hurt anyone and sometimes it's nice to have a BG toon to mess around with when you don't have the time and/or energy for level 50 RvR.

Sun 5 Aug 2018 11:09 PM by Zansobar

Tyton wrote: ↑
Sun 29 Jul 2018 4:26 PM
I'm indifferent. There is already a bonus, but the fact is you level so fast at 20-24, for instance, that there's not much time spent in Thid. And in other zones you can progress (move on to the next camp) where as BG you go for couple levels, then you have to leave. Maybe a further bonus would make a bigger BG pop (if only for very short periods of time), but I believe /rp off adds more people. No one is saying you have to /rp off, but the option for even a handful of people will keep some pop there. Higher drop rates, etc combined with fixing /rp off could help a lot.

This is the reason Thid is dead, you level so fast at lower levels there is no point to waiting in Thid just to get 5 realm skill points. And I don't want them removing the fast leveling just so people are forced into BG leveling either.

What if they increased the realm skill point cap dramatically (especially for Thid since the RPs will come in much slower there). What is the RR cap for the third BG? Maybe move the caps down a BG or two?

Mon 6 Aug 2018 1:10 AM by Geek

Didn't stop many of us from only having thid toons, or molvik toons, or cathal valley toons to have fun with when we didn't play our 50 toons. Just another part of the game to enjoy. Sometimes low level RvR is just as fun or more fun than big boy RvR. But that's on live, not sure the feelings or the mechanics are the same here.

Mon 6 Aug 2018 5:27 AM by Falken

Lower BGs don't even feel like they play the same as big boy RvR, which I guess can be a relief sometimes. I personally skip lower BGs because I much more prefer "end game" where one kill is equivalent to all the RPs you could get in 12 hours of low level BGs (assuming they are populated).

What you will end up getting with /xp off and /rp off is a bunch of twinks in each BG that will just ruin anybody's day who is passing through. Get a template suit made for that level cap and just go in there to essentially grief anybody else because it isn't even fair with a template at that level vs. somebody hopping in for a little fun.

Another element which must be considered is that this is a freeshard with a not so giant population (tbd), the Phoenix feather system has already added an additional end game distraction for people away from the central focus of the game. If you take an already small population and give them way to much to do (i.e. theme park style games) then the game is just going to feel dead at times, which will turn people off.

Just my 2 cents.

Mon 6 Aug 2018 12:45 PM by Tyton

Falken wrote: ↑
Mon 6 Aug 2018 5:27 AM
What you will end up getting with /xp off and /rp off is a bunch of twinks in each BG that will just ruin anybody's day who is passing through. Get a template suit made for that level cap and just go in there to essentially grief anybody else because it isn't even fair with a template at that level vs. somebody hopping in for a little fun.

I've never understood this specific argument against people having Thid/BG twinks.

The gap is far greater at 50 (skill, items, RR) and those who are just "passing through" BGs are either XPing or gaining RPs. Let's look at those in the Frontier: If you XP in the Frontier, you can bet your ass you'll "have your day ruined" or "get griefed" by someone who "isn't even fair." And you won't even have a fighting chance (which isn't as true in BGs here - especially since with ROGs you're not too far off a template yourself). And on the second hand, if you go out looking for people to kill, shouldn't you expect competition?