Cadebrennus wrote: ↑Fri 3 May 2019 10:57 PMIf only Hunters had something cool, like free 2hand or a pet that did as much damage as a Ranger's offhand attack.....
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑Fri 3 May 2019 10:57 PMIf only Hunters had something cool, like free 2hand or a pet that did as much damage as a Ranger's offhand attack.....
Hodge wrote: ↑Sat 4 May 2019 12:13 AMHunter pet is the only insta pet... But other than interrupt and some bits and bites at it's target... Maybe if we could have two wolves. Like summon the pack.
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑Fri 3 May 2019 10:57 PMIf only Hunters had something cool, like free 2hand or a pet that did as much damage as a Ranger's offhand attack.....
Tillbeast wrote: ↑Mon 6 May 2019 2:46 PMCadebrennus wrote: ↑Fri 3 May 2019 10:57 PMIf only Hunters had something cool, like free 2hand or a pet that did as much damage as a Ranger's offhand attack.....
My level 1 character with no xp nor rps is 100% immune to the highest level hunter pet available by just pressing one button.....sprint!!! I move faster than the pet and the pet cannot hit what he cannot catch....well until endo runs out but potions could prolong the chase. The rangers damage add is millions time better than the hunters pet as it is far more reliable. Yes on paper the damage output the melee output of a hunter and a ranger is pretty equal the hunter has the disadvantage of using a slow two hander vs high evade classes which makes the ranger a better option vs melee dps that use evade. The rangers dam add also effects its bow damage if I recall.
Hope you enjoying your albs...have you learned to group yet? I am currently trying hibs, 50 ns and 50 ranger. It may be a case of grass is greener but the ranger just seems easier to play than the hunter.
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑Mon 6 May 2019 2:52 PMTillbeast wrote: ↑Mon 6 May 2019 2:46 PMCadebrennus wrote: ↑Fri 3 May 2019 10:57 PMIf only Hunters had something cool, like free 2hand or a pet that did as much damage as a Ranger's offhand attack.....
My level 1 character with no xp nor rps is 100% immune to the highest level hunter pet available by just pressing one button.....sprint!!! I move faster than the pet and the pet cannot hit what he cannot catch....well until endo runs out but potions could prolong the chase. The rangers damage add is millions time better than the hunters pet as it is far more reliable. Yes on paper the damage output the melee output of a hunter and a ranger is pretty equal the hunter has the disadvantage of using a slow two hander vs high evade classes which makes the ranger a better option vs melee dps that use evade. The rangers dam add also effects its bow damage if I recall.
Hope you enjoying your albs...have you learned to group yet? I am currently trying hibs, 50 ns and 50 ranger. It may be a case of grass is greener but the ranger just seems easier to play than the hunter.
Have I learned to group yet? Is that an insult or an honest question?
Yes, I was the one advocating for Archer group plat and perfected it on live. It was successful enough that Albs and Mids started to copy our group setup and tactics. If you were asking an honest question there's your answer. If you were being a smarmy little shit then go to hell.
Regarding the dog yes it has serious issues running like an asthmatic trying to hit APFT run standards.
Sepphiroth75 wrote: ↑Mon 6 May 2019 3:50 PMCadebrennus wrote: ↑Mon 6 May 2019 2:52 PMTillbeast wrote: ↑Mon 6 May 2019 2:46 PMMy level 1 character with no xp nor rps is 100% immune to the highest level hunter pet available by just pressing one button.....sprint!!! I move faster than the pet and the pet cannot hit what he cannot catch....well until endo runs out but potions could prolong the chase. The rangers damage add is millions time better than the hunters pet as it is far more reliable. Yes on paper the damage output the melee output of a hunter and a ranger is pretty equal the hunter has the disadvantage of using a slow two hander vs high evade classes which makes the ranger a better option vs melee dps that use evade. The rangers dam add also effects its bow damage if I recall.
Hope you enjoying your albs...have you learned to group yet? I am currently trying hibs, 50 ns and 50 ranger. It may be a case of grass is greener but the ranger just seems easier to play than the hunter.
Have I learned to group yet? Is that an insult or an honest question?
Yes, I was the one advocating for Archer group plat and perfected it on live. It was successful enough that Albs and Mids started to copy our group setup and tactics. If you were asking an honest question there's your answer. If you were being a smarmy little shit then go to hell.
Regarding the dog yes it has serious issues running like an asthmatic trying to hit APFT run standards.
Cade brennus : i perfected archer group play!
Swamp donkey Ninjas: hold my beer
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑Fri 3 May 2019 10:57 PMor a pet that did as much damage as a Ranger's offhand attack.....
jelzinga_EU wrote: ↑Tue 7 May 2019 5:35 AMCadebrennus wrote: ↑Fri 3 May 2019 10:57 PMor a pet that did as much damage as a Ranger's offhand attack.....
You keep saying this - tho you never refer to the test-result. I did a short test on my hunter and SB on the dummy to see how close it is:
Hunter with 32 BC pet
[07:05:55] The hunter's avatar attacks Training Dummy Level 50 and hits!
[07:05:55] Your hunter's avatar attacks Training Dummy Level 50 and hits for 45 (-15) damage!
[07:05:59] The hunter's avatar attacks Training Dummy Level 50 and hits!
[07:05:59] Your hunter's avatar attacks Training Dummy Level 50 and hits for 45 (-15) damage!
[07:06:02] The hunter's avatar attacks Training Dummy Level 50 and hits!
[07:06:02] Your hunter's avatar attacks Training Dummy Level 50 and hits for 45 (-15) damage!
[07:06:06] The hunter's avatar attacks Training Dummy Level 50 and hits!
[07:06:06] Your hunter's avatar attacks Training Dummy Level 50 and hits for 45 (-15) damage!
[07:06:09] The hunter's avatar attacks Training Dummy Level 50 and hits!
[07:06:09] Your hunter's avatar attacks Training Dummy Level 50 and hits for 45 (-15) damage!
[07:06:13] The hunter's avatar attacks Training Dummy Level 50 and misses!
[07:06:17] The hunter's avatar attacks Training Dummy Level 50 and hits!
SB with 2.9 speed offhand 99% qua
[07:24:08] You perform your Doublefrost perfectly! (+52, Growth Rate: 0.75, Effective Style Multiplier: 0.4777)
[07:24:08] You attack Training Dummy Level 50 with your shimmering arcanium exceptional long sword and hit for 119 (-41) damage! (Damage Modifier: 1207)
[07:24:09] You attack Training Dummy Level 50 with your shimmering arcanium weighted bearded axe and hit for 47 (-16) damage! (Damage Modifier: 1207)
[07:24:09] You prepare to perform a Doublefrost!
[07:24:11] You perform your Doublefrost perfectly! (+52, Growth Rate: 0.75, Effective Style Multiplier: 0.4777)
[07:24:11] You attack Training Dummy Level 50 with your shimmering arcanium exceptional long sword and hit for 119 (-41) damage! (Damage Modifier: 1207)
[07:24:11] You attack Training Dummy Level 50 with your shimmering arcanium weighted bearded axe and hit for 47 (-16) damage! (Damage Modifier: 1207)
You critically hit Training Dummy Level 50 for an additional 33 damage! (Crit Chance: 32%)
Pet:
Sometimes 3 secs, sometimes 4 secs - so lets assume 3,5 secs swing-speed.
29 misses
97 hits
126 attacks
==> 29/126 = 23% miss-rate ==> equals 9.9 dps
SB:
Sometimes 3 secs, sometimes 2 secs - so lets assume 2.5 sec swing-speed
15% miss rate ==> equals ==> equals 16 dps
A few things to notice:
* Ranger offhand doesn't swing every round like my SB - but should do more damage with an offhand due to no LA-penalty - assume 60% swing-rate with 10% more dmg
* Ranger its offhand also benefits from dmg-add - it should at least add something like 12 dmg
* Ranger its offhand benefits from MoPain (hunter pet can crit with Wild Minion, but thats an additional RA)
So lets assume the ranger his offhand would do 50 + 12 dmg, 60% swing-rate and 15% miss (as SB) ==> 12.3 DPS
I'm gonna call it busted - I've been low-balling with Ranger offhand dmg and it is still 25% above hunter-pet damage. So, show me the tests you performed (link) or proof me wrong.
Sepplord wrote: ↑Tue 7 May 2019 6:37 AMwhy does PF need to be worth speccing for, to compare it with another line?
if something is worth speccing for or not would be the conclusion, not the entry-requirement for the test/comparison
how do faster offhand weapons decrease offhand weapon-DPS?
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑Tue 7 May 2019 6:58 AMSepplord wrote: ↑Tue 7 May 2019 6:37 AMwhy does PF need to be worth speccing for, to compare it with another line?
if something is worth speccing for or not would be the conclusion, not the entry-requirement for the test/comparison
how do faster offhand weapons decrease offhand weapon-DPS?
I think you're just being contrarian at this point, but I'll bite. He's using Mid offhand weapons as a stand-in for Hib offhand weapons which is a misleading comparison because a) the weapons are typically different speeds and b) people are typically going to use the fastest offhand in either realm, which means that testable speeds (and damage) that exist on Hib do not exist on Mid.
In addition, any theorycraft must include actual current theorycraft of current viable specs, which leaves PF out of the equation, or specced just for the speed burst. Speccing high PF requires a heavy sacrifice to another line such as stealth, melee, or bow, in comparison to Hunters who are fairly easy to spec. Don't even argue this point with me, I played a Hunter in beta and it was ridiculously easy to spec high in one line with very little sacrifice in another, and performed exceptionally.
Sepplord wrote: ↑Tue 7 May 2019 7:11 AMCadebrennus wrote: ↑Tue 7 May 2019 6:58 AMSepplord wrote: ↑Tue 7 May 2019 6:37 AMwhy does PF need to be worth speccing for, to compare it with another line?
if something is worth speccing for or not would be the conclusion, not the entry-requirement for the test/comparison
how do faster offhand weapons decrease offhand weapon-DPS?
I think you're just being contrarian at this point, but I'll bite. He's using Mid offhand weapons as a stand-in for Hib offhand weapons which is a misleading comparison because a) the weapons are typically different speeds and b) people are typically going to use the fastest offhand in either realm, which means that testable speeds (and damage) that exist on Hib do not exist on Mid.
In addition, any theorycraft must include actual current theorycraft of current viable specs, which leaves PF out of the equation, or specced just for the speed burst. Speccing high PF requires a heavy sacrifice to another line such as stealth, melee, or bow, in comparison to Hunters who are fairly easy to spec. Don't even argue this point with me, I played a Hunter in beta and it was ridiculously easy to spec high in one line with very little sacrifice in another, and performed exceptionally.
Yeah i was wondering about testing ranger-offhand dmg with an SB, but since you didn't comment on THAT part i got confused. You only mentioned faster weapons, which wouldn't change offhand-DPS afaik.
Got your point about specc now, makes sense
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑Mon 6 May 2019 2:52 PMTillbeast wrote: ↑Mon 6 May 2019 2:46 PMCadebrennus wrote: ↑Fri 3 May 2019 10:57 PMIf only Hunters had something cool, like free 2hand or a pet that did as much damage as a Ranger's offhand attack.....
My level 1 character with no xp nor rps is 100% immune to the highest level hunter pet available by just pressing one button.....sprint!!! I move faster than the pet and the pet cannot hit what he cannot catch....well until endo runs out but potions could prolong the chase. The rangers damage add is millions time better than the hunters pet as it is far more reliable. Yes on paper the damage output the melee output of a hunter and a ranger is pretty equal the hunter has the disadvantage of using a slow two hander vs high evade classes which makes the ranger a better option vs melee dps that use evade. The rangers dam add also effects its bow damage if I recall.
Hope you enjoying your albs...have you learned to group yet? I am currently trying hibs, 50 ns and 50 ranger. It may be a case of grass is greener but the ranger just seems easier to play than the hunter.
Have I learned to group yet? Is that an insult or an honest question?
Yes, I was the one advocating for Archer group plat and perfected it on live. It was successful enough that Albs and Mids started to copy our group setup and tactics. If you were asking an honest question there's your answer. If you were being a smarmy little shit then go to hell.
Regarding the dog yes it has serious issues running like an asthmatic trying to hit APFT run standards.
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑Tue 7 May 2019 5:58 AMYou forget to take into account the offhand speeds that are available in Hib/Alb. The weapons are faster. Your PF argument is busted because PF isn't worth speccing for, especially with the new pot/charge changes. With those factors your numbers are pretty damn close to my original argument.
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑Tue 7 May 2019 6:58 AMI think you're just being contrarian at this point, but I'll bite. He's using Mid offhand weapons as a stand-in for Hib offhand weapons which is a misleading comparison because a) the weapons are typically different speeds and b) people are typically going to use the fastest offhand in either realm, which means that testable speeds (and damage) that exist on Hib do not exist on Mid.
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑Tue 7 May 2019 6:58 AMIn addition, any theorycraft must include actual current theorycraft of current viable specs, which leaves PF out of the equation, or specced just for the speed burst. Speccing high PF requires a heavy sacrifice to another line such as stealth, melee, or bow, in comparison to Hunters who are fairly easy to spec. Don't even argue this point with me, I played a Hunter in beta and it was ridiculously easy to spec high in one line with very little sacrifice in another, and performed exceptionally.
jelzinga_EU wrote: ↑Tue 7 May 2019 10:02 AMCadebrennus wrote: ↑Tue 7 May 2019 6:58 AMI think you're just being contrarian at this point, but I'll bite. He's using Mid offhand weapons as a stand-in for Hib offhand weapons which is a misleading comparison because a) the weapons are typically different speeds and b) people are typically going to use the fastest offhand in either realm, which means that testable speeds (and damage) that exist on Hib do not exist on Mid.
Basically one and the same argument, weapon-speed. The weapon-speed however does not make a big impact in DPS. I had to produce some reasonable numbers - so 2.9 speed offhand seemed an OK-choice. I'm quite sure some might use faster weapons on their ranger, but some might also use slower.Cadebrennus wrote: ↑Tue 7 May 2019 6:58 AMIn addition, any theorycraft must include actual current theorycraft of current viable specs, which leaves PF out of the equation, or specced just for the speed burst. Speccing high PF requires a heavy sacrifice to another line such as stealth, melee, or bow, in comparison to Hunters who are fairly easy to spec. Don't even argue this point with me, I played a Hunter in beta and it was ridiculously easy to spec high in one line with very little sacrifice in another, and performed exceptionally.
Just because you think PF isn't worth speccing doesn't mean that it isn't. And yes, I agree how hunters have speccing easier, at RR3 you can go like 32 BC, 40 Archery, 44 Spear, 37 Stealth which isn't really possible as Ranger. But once you're RR5+ you can (and will) do much better on a Ranger - both as Hybrid or as pure melee.
jelzinga_EU wrote: ↑Tue 7 May 2019 5:24 PMWell, you can resort to name-calling but your "tests" are nowhere to be found on the forum (to me, at least). Care to provide a link ?
mhenfhis wrote: ↑Tue 7 May 2019 9:21 PMThats the magic of internet, you dont need to recognise me, while i can see you miles away
Sepplord wrote: ↑Wed 8 May 2019 7:26 AMhe's got a point though Cade....Person X can know loads of stuff about Person Y, without person Y even being aware that person X exists...
Doesn't mean any claims are correct, but you can't refute his statement of knowing you, by saying you don't know him
Horus wrote: ↑Wed 8 May 2019 2:31 PMI can say on my keen bow/hybrid spec ranger, Hunters almost always beat me 1 on 1 melee. Maybe against the FOTM shar melee specs that is not the case. But really that is apples to oranges. The blades shar FOTM is almost a totally different class. It pains me to even call it a "ranger".
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