BG / Under 50 RvR Overhaul

Started 1 May 2019
by Uthred
in Planned Changes
BGs are very low populated at the moment for different reasons. Under 50 RvR looks like either suiciding or afk sticking a keep take zerg. Thats why we would like to offer some more options to have some RvR experiences before Level 50, but on the other hand the main goal of this server is still to get as many people into endgame RvR, as we think it is needed for a healthy server. Battlegrounds should be some kind of a training ground, but we dont want people to only play there and never go out to the frontiers.

Battlegrounds:
We will introduce a new BG and change the max realm rank. The battlegrounds will be:

20-24 Thidranki, max 3LO
25-29 Abermenai, max 3L5
30-34 Caledonia, max 4L0
35-39 Cathal Valley, max 4L5

All existing BGs and Cathal Valley will get a rework with new mobspots plus every BG will get (two) different xp items that can only be farmed in the BG and turned in the central keep of that battleground when your realm is owning it.

In addition killing a player in a battleground will be worth a lot more XP like it is now. Players will have the options to choose between grinding mobs that have the fz-xp bonus where they can only be attacked by players of their levelrange or they level up by killing other players.

RvR Tasks:
The realm task now has a level requirement of 35 and the rp / bp / coin reward scales more with your level meaning at level 35 you will get a greatly reduced amount. We will also increase the tick duration from 15 minutes to 30 minutes, the rp / bp / coin reward per tick will accordingly be doubled to keep the amount the same.

CHANGED: Respec & Rp/XP off:
XP off will remain, RP off will still be removed. Respecs will be available for free on every level regardless of your realm rank until you have 24 hours played on that level, including level 50.
Wed 1 May 2019 5:29 PM by florin
Awesome
Wed 1 May 2019 5:29 PM by Cruella
First you give us a candy with one hand and slap us after with the other one. RP/XP OFF is the foundation of BG toons. Why remove it
Wed 1 May 2019 5:31 PM by 0ri
Some good stuff in here. Excited to see it.
Wed 1 May 2019 5:32 PM by Fugax
This is a better post than the stupid buff post.....
Wed 1 May 2019 5:35 PM by Steelcurtain28
This is not why people do not do BG's Bg's are pointless when you have RvR task and can suicide and gain more rps than you would in cale. this is awesome but BG's will still be dead with RvR task the way they are.
Wed 1 May 2019 5:37 PM by Muschen
Cruella wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 5:29 PM
First you give us a candy with one hand and slap us after with the other one. RP/XP OFF is the foundation of BG toons. Why remove it

I agree, you need some rp/xp off people to keep a healthy population in the BGs for everyone else.
Wed 1 May 2019 5:38 PM by Kappu
Cruella wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 5:29 PM
First you give us a candy with one hand and slap us after with the other one. RP/XP OFF is the foundation of BG toons. Why remove it

Didn't you read what he said? They want to push you to end game RvR not keep you in the battleground. He even stated that's what keeps the server healthy is end game RvR.
Wed 1 May 2019 5:39 PM by cuuchulain79
***Pump the brakes***

Overall, awesome...

If higher RR caps though, and increased xp for PK...please keep /xp off available...otherwise I'm guessing folks who want to cap out of BGs will be reduced to suiciding over and over.

So please....

Keep keep /xp off!

On a side note...what about lowering several RAs with lvl 40 req, down to 39? Or raise CV to 35-40?

Edit: I fully support no /rp off, to force folks who cap out to move on...but a level 24 char will probably need to swan dive to death hundreds of times to actually hit RR3 w/ boosted xp from player kills.

Also...how about 100k feathers for hitting 4L6 in CV?
Wed 1 May 2019 5:39 PM by chryso
How about disallowing pots and charges in the BG too?
Wed 1 May 2019 5:39 PM by caridry
Steelcurtain28 wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 5:35 PM
This is not why people do not do BG's Bg's are pointless when you have RvR task and can suicide and gain more rps than you would in cale. this is awesome but BG's will still be dead with RvR task the way they are.

You literally failed to read the rest of the post. They are making it so that 35+ can only get credit, and lvl 35's get SEVERELY less than what a 49 would get. It scales. Please read all of the patch notes before posting.
Wed 1 May 2019 5:39 PM by Roto23
Cruella wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 5:29 PM
First you give us a candy with one hand and slap us after with the other one. RP/XP OFF is the foundation of BG toons. Why remove it

Yah, please reconsider turning back on RP/XP. I understand why you did that. You are afraid that too many people will play in the BG leaving the FZ more empty. Since you guys are good listeners, can you at least try RP/XP off for Thid level and see how it affects the population in big boy RVR?
Wed 1 May 2019 5:44 PM by Cruella
Kappu wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 5:38 PM
Cruella wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 5:29 PM
First you give us a candy with one hand and slap us after with the other one. RP/XP OFF is the foundation of BG toons. Why remove it

Didn't you read what he said? They want to push you to end game RvR not keep you in the battleground. He even stated that's what keeps the server healthy is end game RvR.

There are people that acutaly like bgs more than big boy rvr. same stupid discussions like on live server. let everyone play the way they want... enforcing ... what a joke.
When there are ppl that just logg in for the bgs ..let em... whats better? loosing a player? because he doesnt want to get lvl50? that guy wouldnt play here in the first place then. So youre loosing nothing..

You take em /xp off? ok they start suiciding again to not levelup again.... they rr up? ok they delete and recreate. So that "law" does nothing execept "punish". For nothing.
Or do you really think that player would say "ok i cant do my favorite thing...bg... i lvl to 50 and rvr"... you must be really naive... its just another player lost.
Wed 1 May 2019 5:45 PM by PingGuy
Most of it sounds fine, but the task change is a red line for me. I'm not going to wait until 35 to try to get a few RA points for basic leveling improvements (Serenity, MCL, LW, etc.). I'm not going to go to the BG's for RP's either. Mainly because my specialty, dying horribly, does not reward RP's, and therefore I would be 1L0 forever.

If that change goes in, my will to level characters will die, and I will likely quit Phoenix altogether. That's not a threat, it's just reality. Maybe you gain more players by making this change than you lose, if so, then I get it. I'm just saying that for me, that change is likely to push me out the door.
Wed 1 May 2019 5:46 PM by Shamissa
Awesome stuff!!! Thank you !!! love the 35-39 bg !!!
Wed 1 May 2019 5:48 PM by chryso
When is this planned change expected to go in?
Wed 1 May 2019 5:51 PM by Luluko
Prolly too late for this change we have grown too acustomed to the realm task rps/xp, and without xp/rp off its not worth templating for those bgs but some tryhard will just reroll his toon over and over and wipe away xp and only be out when he hits rr cap and then reroll again. I wont go into bgs to donate to such people and if realmtask xp is now nerfed, we either have the option to find a lvling grp with certain classes like bard or just stop playing if you want to avoid bgs, at least before you could do it with xp items/realmtask xp on those classes. Imho if people wanna stay in bgs then something is seriously wrong with 50 rvr that its not fun enough and not with bgs so leave those xp/rp off commands in or dont waste your resources on bgs which will prolly never see much population anyway. Despite that 30min realmtask timer seems good tho.
Wed 1 May 2019 5:54 PM by Kampfar
Already got Not the full rps When under 50. Not sure why ppl act like this is new
Wed 1 May 2019 5:56 PM by PingGuy
Kampfar wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 5:54 PM
Already got Not the full rps When under 50. Not sure why ppl act like this is new

Currently: 1-50 Scales
Proposed: 0-34 Nada, 35-50 Scales

This is absolutely new.
Wed 1 May 2019 5:59 PM by Kampfar
Maybe i should just jump on the omgachangethatmightbegoodorbadbutsurebadforme-train
Wed 1 May 2019 6:00 PM by vanillaface
Xp off is no biggie to get around.. we will just get alot of graves inside the main gates and ppl taking the piss on how stupid that change is on a nice server.
I mean.. even Uthgard change it so you could do xp off... that says alot..

BUT if you ask me ... there is alot more that should be removed before that.... like the TASK..
But first of all..... the damn invisible walls and glitching screens.. that shiit should be prio #1 from the devs to fix... Not some buffpots jada jada and bgs and rp/xp/on off.
Because that shiit is extreamly annoying.
Wed 1 May 2019 6:02 PM by Kappu
Cruella wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 5:44 PM
Kappu wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 5:38 PM
Cruella wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 5:29 PM
First you give us a candy with one hand and slap us after with the other one. RP/XP OFF is the foundation of BG toons. Why remove it

Didn't you read what he said? They want to push you to end game RvR not keep you in the battleground. He even stated that's what keeps the server healthy is end game RvR.

There are people that acutaly like bgs more than big boy rvr. same stupid discussions like on live server. let everyone play the way they want... enforcing ... what a joke.
When there are ppl that just logg in for the bgs ..let em... whats better? loosing a player? because he doesnt want to get lvl50? that guy wouldnt play here in the first place then. So youre loosing nothing..

You take em /xp off? ok they start suiciding again to not levelup again.... they rr up? ok they delete and recreate. So that "law" does nothing execept "punish". For nothing.
Or do you really think that player would say "ok i cant do my favorite thing...bg... i lvl to 50 and rvr"... you must be really naive... its just another player lost.

You sitting in the BG's is the same thing as losing a player for the server you offer nothing to the health of it since you don't contribute to anything end game.
Wed 1 May 2019 6:04 PM by Jacksontown
PingGuy wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 5:45 PM
Most of it sounds fine, but the task change is a red line for me. I'm not going to wait until 35 to try to get a few RA points for basic leveling improvements (Serenity, MCL, LW, etc.). I'm not going to go to the BG's for RP's either. Mainly because my specialty, dying horribly, does not reward RP's, and therefore I would be 1L0 forever.

If that change goes in, my will to level characters will die, and I will likely quit Phoenix altogether. That's not a threat, it's just reality. Maybe you gain more players by making this change than you lose, if so, then I get it. I'm just saying that for me, that change is likely to push me out the door.

The current task system is degenerate. Suiciding every 15 minutes to get a tick of rp/xp is not something they want to incentivize, and I agree with it. What they've put it its place is a healthier way to get rps/xp that shouldn't require elite skill, which sounds like something you're worried about.
Wed 1 May 2019 6:07 PM by Tanakeo
Respec & Rp/XP off:
Rp & XP off will be removed. Free respecs until level 50 will stay, but the realm rank wont matter anymore. As long as you are below level 50 you will be able to free respec as often as you like, no matter what realm rank you have.



Could you keep the /xp off function at level 50, it removes ALOT of clutter in the combat window, just convenient if u wanna look at stuff like deathblows etc
Wed 1 May 2019 6:12 PM by Lordzolio
PingGuy wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 5:45 PM
Most of it sounds fine, but the task change is a red line for me. I'm not going to wait until 35 to try to get a few RA points for basic leveling improvements (Serenity, MCL, LW, etc.). I'm not going to go to the BG's for RP's either. Mainly because my specialty, dying horribly, does not reward RP's, and therefore I would be 1L0 forever.

If that change goes in, my will to level characters will die, and I will likely quit Phoenix altogether. That's not a threat, it's just reality. Maybe you gain more players by making this change than you lose, if so, then I get it. I'm just saying that for me, that change is likely to push me out the door.


I have to agree this changes everything. Getting a few ra's at low level really helps out and leveling in the rvr zone was good and fun but now 35+ and scaled down :/
I came here to play because U guys listen to the players, archery/stealth (X), Buffs (XX), Now this (XXX) Wish phoenix the best . i'm out ..
Wed 1 May 2019 6:15 PM by Kwall0311
Rp off/xp off is about the only thing i cant get behind. Part of the fun was going back to playing the bgs when you needed a break with level 50.

Also, can you add a reskinned bp refund merchant?

Rip my level 24 Skald with 60k bps in armor/weapons

Wed 1 May 2019 6:21 PM by cuuchulain79
Speaking of skald...

Can using SoS in the BGs change the char model of the Skald to the Oscar Myer Weiner mobile?
Wed 1 May 2019 6:22 PM by Apollo
Really like all these changes in this thread except RP/XP off removal- why? No one wants these removed so don't do it.
Wed 1 May 2019 6:25 PM by florin
since BG keeps count for DF access, why not allow a permanent population there if that's how they choose to participate?
Wed 1 May 2019 6:25 PM by florin
Kwall0311 wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 6:15 PM
Rp off/xp off is about the only thing i cant get behind. Part of the fun was going back to playing the bgs when you needed a break with level 50.

Also, can you add a reskinned bp refund merchant?

Rip my level 24 Skald with 60k bps in armor/weapons



That's where you've been hiding!
Wed 1 May 2019 6:26 PM by Funzel
Ok, im just a new player and i just start to get a grip on Phoenix... A friend explained that "Task" thing to me and i was just shaking my head...
That RvR-Tasking is just BS and utter crap! Get rid of it as fast as possible! I think it´s exactly what was discriped a few post befor mine: running to suicide in the frontiers to get a few EXP/RP´s to boost your RA´s to lvl / farm better...

To deactive /xp off and rp off to press the players to endgame RvR... i don´t think it will work as intended.
They will just suicide or delete their chars and start again. /shrug
and hey seriously: if you can get 3L0 in Thid AND get exp-boost for killing other players AND get FZ-bonuses AND have a max lvl of 24... what do you think how long are chars in there in thid? 2-3h max to reach lvl25 with RR 2L0?
It makes no sense to boost everything and than restict something on the other hand!

A lot of blabla from me... here in short:
RvR-Tasks = bull-crap! get rid of them!
Let /xp off and /rp off stay!
Wed 1 May 2019 6:29 PM by Roto23
I don't think RP/XP off will affect big boy RVR population. Today the Phoenix team posted two major changes. The buff change already has 10 pages and the BG change only has 3 pages. That right there shows you that the Phoenix population care way more about Big Boy RVR then BG's. Plus, (I cannot prove this, but you guys can with a few database queries) most people who have perma BG characters have at least one high RR level 50 and only hit the BG like a few times a week as just a change of action.
Wed 1 May 2019 6:30 PM by idknemore
Cool idea; however, removing XP off does not allow people to have BG toons. People love BG toons, especially if the BG's are going to be more populated.

Seems counter intuitive.
Wed 1 May 2019 6:52 PM by Kappu
The whole point of the server is to not have BG toons. He openly stated that they are wanting it to be end game RvR focus based. The BG changes are to get people to use them and give an alternative leveling option.

The task is great and the server isn't hurt because of them. The whole reason they put this in place is for END GAME RVR.....

Listen to that again THEY CARE ABOUT END GAME RAIDING AND RVR not you playing in a battleground not contributing to the health of the END GAME RVR.
Wed 1 May 2019 6:59 PM by PingGuy
Jacksontown wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 6:04 PM
The current task system is degenerate. Suiciding every 15 minutes to get a tick of rp/xp is not something they want to incentivize, and I agree with it. What they've put it its place is a healthier way to get rps/xp that shouldn't require elite skill, which sounds like something you're worried about.

When I started playing on Phoenix, I wasn't sure if I would RvR at all. The tasks incentivized me to give it a try. It went about how I figured it would. I sucked and died a lot, but the task reward gave me a reason to go out and do it anyway. Eventually, when faced with the need to farm and template and all that, I stopped going to RvR. The exception was leveling alts. Around level 20 I would hit the task a few times to get a few RA's to make leveling easier. Currently my interest in Phoenix is mostly leveling alts and finding the right class that I would enjoy farming on so I can get some templates built, and see where it goes from there.

More recently I was thinking about leveling an Archer solely through the task, just as a project to see how it would go. I leveled a Ranger to 8 normally to get some basic gear, and planned to farm/buy some gear for him later when it all went grey. In the meantime I would just go out fully bow specced and try to hit anything I could, and see how that went.

I know that isn't how most people are enjoying Phoenix, and I'm likely more casual and playtime limited than most here. But that's the draw of Phoenix for me, and this change would have a major impact on my interest in playing here. There are a number of ways they could adjust this change to still get what they want without impacting what I want. The task could still work from level one, but only below a certain RR at certain level caps. Like 1L4 through level 10, 1L9 through level 20, or even through level 35. I don't care really, but life without Tireless/LW/Serenity is not fun past level 20. Or if they just changed it from 35 to 20 that would be fine too, although would accomplish less of what they are trying to do.

The Ranger project was just something to do, so not as big of a deal. This really is about a few points worth of RA's being huge QoL improvements for leveling.
Wed 1 May 2019 7:05 PM by Jacksontown
PingGuy wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 6:59 PM
Jacksontown wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 6:04 PM
The current task system is degenerate. Suiciding every 15 minutes to get a tick of rp/xp is not something they want to incentivize, and I agree with it. What they've put it its place is a healthier way to get rps/xp that shouldn't require elite skill, which sounds like something you're worried about.

When I started playing on Phoenix, I wasn't sure if I would RvR at all. The tasks incentivized me to give it a try. It went about how I figured it would. I sucked and died a lot, but the task reward gave me a reason to go out and do it anyway. Eventually, when faced with the need to farm and template and all that, I stopped going to RvR. The exception was leveling alts. Around level 20 I would hit the task a few times to get a few RA's to make leveling easier. Currently my interest in Phoenix is mostly leveling alts and finding the right class that I would enjoy farming on so I can get some templates built, and see where it goes from there.

More recently I was thinking about leveling an Archer solely through the task, just as a project to see how it would go. I leveled a Ranger to 8 normally to get some basic gear, and planned to farm/buy some gear for him later when it all went grey. In the meantime I would just go out fully bow specced and try to hit anything I could, and see how that went.

I know that isn't how most people are enjoying Phoenix, and I'm likely more casual and playtime limited than most here. But that's the draw of Phoenix for me, and this change would have a major impact on my interest in playing here. There are a number of ways they could adjust this change to still get what they want without impacting what I want. The task could still work from level one, but only below a certain RR at certain level caps. Like 1L4 through level 10, 1L9 through level 20, or even through level 35. I don't care really, but life without Tireless/LW/Serenity is not fun past level 20. Or if they just changed it from 35 to 20 that would be fine too, although would accomplish less of what they are trying to do.

The Ranger project was just something to do, so not as big of a deal. This really is about a few points worth of RA's being huge QoL improvements for leveling.

This is a completely fine way to play the game. I would just argue that there's already plenty of quality of life changes they've made to the server to make leveling easier and that taking away this unintended effect of people being rr3 at level 30 with /task is not the end of leveling, even for a casual.

For your Ranger, you could buy some level 10 endurance regen pots for around 8g each (or I could give you a ton of them for freesince I play hib). You actually get a free realm point at level 5 that could be spent on Tireless that would help a lot and should allow you to chain pull mobs as a ranger if you spec high in bow and use the Keen flighted arrows.

It sounds like I'm dismissing your concerns but I'm really just trying to get you to see how the game is already updated to make things easier and that this /task stuff is us being spoiled with things we really don't need, even if we'd like to have them.

Seriously, though, hit me up in game on Armstrong and I'll make you so many pots you'll need alts just to hold them.
Wed 1 May 2019 7:24 PM by PingGuy
Jacksontown wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 7:05 PM
This is a completely fine way to play the game. I would just argue that there's already plenty of quality of life changes they've made to the server to make leveling easier and that taking away this unintended effect of people being rr3 at level 30 with /task is not the end of leveling, even for a casual.

For your Ranger, you could buy some level 10 endurance regen pots for around 8g each (or I could give you a ton of them for freesince I play hib). You actually get a free realm point at level 5 that could be spent on Tireless that would help a lot and should allow you to chain pull mobs as a ranger if you spec high in bow and use the Keen flighted arrows.

It sounds like I'm dismissing your concerns but I'm really just trying to get you to see how the game is already updated to make things easier and that this /task stuff is us being spoiled with things we really don't need, even if we'd like to have them.

Seriously, though, hit me up in game on Armstrong and I'll make you so many pots you'll need alts just to hold them.

There are definitely lots of QoL changes here that make leveling less of a chore, and I recognize that. I never made it past the mid 30's on DAoC at release because it was such a grind. Here I enjoy low-impact soloing and getting to know the classes. And I do spec Tireless on all my characters, even the casters, as the first point. But somewhere between 1L4 and 1L9 is the sweet spot for "nice improvements with minimal effort" when it comes to improvements via RA's.

Where we disagree is that anybody getting RR3 easily on this server is a problem. First of all, RR3 is the last one they'll get easily. Anybody who has tried it knows that it really slows down around 2L9. But mainly, if everybody can easily be RR3 then how much different is it than everybody being RR1? I mean my Warden has Purge 2 and a couple points of Det, along with Tireless, LW, and maybe Serenity 2. Furthermore, leveling by the tasks is slow. When you get into the levels where the task gives 1-2 bubbles of exp, you are talking 1-3 hours of tasking for ONE level. There is literally nothing about this process that is a problem, but there is one common complaint:

"Why are there so many greys running around in RvR? They annoy me."

I see that all the time in game and on the forums. I'm not assuming you feel this way, I'm just mentioning it because it happens.

I do appreciate the offer for pots though. It doesn't really address my issue at this time, but if I stick around I may take you up on it. Mostly I'm just happy for civil discussion, when dealing with topics that can get heated.
Wed 1 May 2019 7:34 PM by Ardri
Uthred wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 5:26 PM
Rp & XP off will be removed.

First off, awesome changes, loving it (including buff changes). I actually agree with RP off as well as you don't want to split the population and have people live in bg etc.

BUT, xp off makes no sense as you can just suicide to lose xp. People did it on live before /xp off, they did it on uthgard 2, they'll do it here. You're just wasting people's time and forcing them to suicide over and over again. Why?

There's no "loop hole" for RP off, which is another reason i agree with it.
Wed 1 May 2019 7:46 PM by Sector7G
I was fine with the fact that the BG's were dead here.

I was fine with the fact that all levels of players were in the frontiers (kept it populated)


Why were these changes needed again?
Wed 1 May 2019 7:47 PM by Jacksontown
PingGuy wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 7:24 PM
Jacksontown wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 7:05 PM
This is a completely fine way to play the game. I would just argue that there's already plenty of quality of life changes they've made to the server to make leveling easier and that taking away this unintended effect of people being rr3 at level 30 with /task is not the end of leveling, even for a casual.

For your Ranger, you could buy some level 10 endurance regen pots for around 8g each (or I could give you a ton of them for freesince I play hib). You actually get a free realm point at level 5 that could be spent on Tireless that would help a lot and should allow you to chain pull mobs as a ranger if you spec high in bow and use the Keen flighted arrows.

It sounds like I'm dismissing your concerns but I'm really just trying to get you to see how the game is already updated to make things easier and that this /task stuff is us being spoiled with things we really don't need, even if we'd like to have them.

Seriously, though, hit me up in game on Armstrong and I'll make you so many pots you'll need alts just to hold them.

There are definitely lots of QoL changes here that make leveling less of a chore, and I recognize that. I never made it past the mid 30's on DAoC at release because it was such a grind. Here I enjoy low-impact soloing and getting to know the classes. And I do spec Tireless on all my characters, even the casters, as the first point. But somewhere between 1L4 and 1L9 is the sweet spot for "nice improvements with minimal effort" when it comes to improvements via RA's.

Where we disagree is that anybody getting RR3 easily on this server is a problem. First of all, RR3 is the last one they'll get easily. Anybody who has tried it knows that it really slows down around 2L9. But mainly, if everybody can easily be RR3 then how much different is it than everybody being RR1? I mean my Warden has Purge 2 and a couple points of Det, along with Tireless, LW, and maybe Serenity 2. Furthermore, leveling by the tasks is slow. When you get into the levels where the task gives 1-2 bubbles of exp, you are talking 1-3 hours of tasking for ONE level. There is literally nothing about this process that is a problem, but there is one common complaint:

"Why are there so many greys running around in RvR? They annoy me."

I see that all the time in game and on the forums. I'm not assuming you feel this way, I'm just mentioning it because it happens.

I do appreciate the offer for pots though. It doesn't really address my issue at this time, but if I stick around I may take you up on it. Mostly I'm just happy for civil discussion, when dealing with topics that can get heated.

Grey's running around doesn't bother me much, just a minor annoyance.

While that was some people's complaint about the current task system, I don't think the devs took those complaints into much consideration when making these changes. I think they simply took a look at the current climate of low level rvr and wanted something healthier.

Personally, now that there's an incentive to stop at each bg I'm looking forward to running some toons through. From what it sounds like, you might only have to spend a relatively short amount of time in the bgs to get to a healthy rr - think Thid caps at rr3 and that's only the first bg.

Either way, I also appreciate the civil discussion and hope you can find a way to still enjoy the game.
Wed 1 May 2019 7:55 PM by Rexoo
Uthred wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 5:26 PM
BGs are very low populated at the moment for different reasons. Under 50 RvR looks like either suiciding or afk sticking a keep take zerg. Thats why we would like to offer some more options to have some RvR experiences before Level 50, but on the other hand the main goal of this server is still to get as many people into endgame RvR, as we think it is needed for a healthy server. Battlegrounds should be some kind of a training ground, but we dont want people to only play there and never go out to the frontiers.

Battlegrounds:
We will introduce a new BG and change the max realm rank. The battlegrounds will be:

20-24 Thidranki, max 3LO
25-29 Abermenai, max 3L5
30-34 Caledonia, max 4L0
35-39 Cathal Valley, max 4L5

All existing BGs and Cathal Valley will get a rework with new mobspots plus every BG will get (two) different xp items that can only be farmed in the BG and turned in the central keep of that battleground when your realm is owning it.

In addition killing a player in a battleground will be worth a lot more XP like it is now. Players will have the options to choose between grinding mobs that have the fz-xp bonus where they can only be attacked by players of their levelrange or they level up by killing other players.

RvR Tasks:
The realm task now has a level requirement of 35 and the rp / bp / coin reward scales more with your level meaning at level 35 you will get a greatly reduced amount. We will also increase the tick duration from 15 minutes to 30 minutes, the rp / bp / coin reward per tick will accordingly be doubled to keep the amount the same.

Respec & Rp/XP off:
Rp & XP off will be removed. Free respecs until level 50 will stay, but the realm rank wont matter anymore. As long as you are below level 50 you will be able to free respec as often as you like, no matter what realm rank you have.

Bg's should go to 50+ (And players NOT able to grp or buff others after lvl 40 bg's)!!!
Wed 1 May 2019 7:58 PM by PingGuy
Jacksontown wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 7:47 PM
Grey's running around doesn't bother me much, just a minor annoyance.

While that was some people's complaint about the current task system, I don't think the devs took those complaints into much consideration when making these changes. I think they simply took a look at the current climate of low level rvr and wanted something healthier.

Personally, now that there's an incentive to stop at each bg I'm looking forward to running some toons through. From what it sounds like, you might only have to spend a relatively short amount of time in the bgs to get to a healthy rr - think Thid caps at rr3 and that's only the first bg.

Either way, I also appreciate the civil discussion and hope you can find a way to still enjoy the game.

I'm definitely going to keep playing and see how it goes. This will mainly be an issue when I move onto a new alt.

But I want to clarify one point that gets missed in the discussion of the task and the BG's. I play solo, and that means that I generally contribute a little bit to a fight and then die. In the FZ's with the zerg rolling and the task rewards, this is an option for advancement. In the BG's that is a recipe for 0 RP's, over and over again. This is my main issue. I want people who are skilled, or play in groups, to get what they want in the BG's. I just feel that leaving the task on from at least level 20+ in the FZ's would be fine and not impact the BG's in any major way. That is why these changes bother me so much. I don't go to the BG's now, and this won't make me, but it's still hurting my experience here on Phoenix.
Wed 1 May 2019 8:09 PM by Eidorf
Like most that have posted, I don't like the removal of RP/XP off. Rest of the changes are great.
Wed 1 May 2019 8:17 PM by kratoxin
Rexoo wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 7:55 PM
Uthred wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 5:26 PM
BGs are very low populated at the moment for different reasons. Under 50 RvR looks like either suiciding or afk sticking a keep take zerg. Thats why we would like to offer some more options to have some RvR experiences before Level 50, but on the other hand the main goal of this server is still to get as many people into endgame RvR, as we think it is needed for a healthy server. Battlegrounds should be some kind of a training ground, but we dont want people to only play there and never go out to the frontiers.

Battlegrounds:
We will introduce a new BG and change the max realm rank. The battlegrounds will be:

20-24 Thidranki, max 3LO
25-29 Abermenai, max 3L5
30-34 Caledonia, max 4L0
35-39 Cathal Valley, max 4L5

All existing BGs and Cathal Valley will get a rework with new mobspots plus every BG will get (two) different xp items that can only be farmed in the BG and turned in the central keep of that battleground when your realm is owning it.

In addition killing a player in a battleground will be worth a lot more XP like it is now. Players will have the options to choose between grinding mobs that have the fz-xp bonus where they can only be attacked by players of their levelrange or they level up by killing other players.

RvR Tasks:
The realm task now has a level requirement of 35 and the rp / bp / coin reward scales more with your level meaning at level 35 you will get a greatly reduced amount. We will also increase the tick duration from 15 minutes to 30 minutes, the rp / bp / coin reward per tick will accordingly be doubled to keep the amount the same.

Respec & Rp/XP off:
Rp & XP off will be removed. Free respecs until level 50 will stay, but the realm rank wont matter anymore. As long as you are below level 50 you will be able to free respec as often as you like, no matter what realm rank you have.

Bg's should go to 50+ (And players NOT able to grp or buff others after lvl 40 bg's)!!!
what? all i heared was "i'm a troll feed me!!"
Wed 1 May 2019 8:28 PM by Sixin2082
Please keep rp/XP off.
Wed 1 May 2019 8:30 PM by pbellin12
Another suggestion would be to add an afk timer in frontier zones if afk for more then 15 minutes it boots you from game. This would fix some of the afk lvling and team points. It would also show a more accurate number of players in frontiers for underpopulated bonus.
Wed 1 May 2019 9:20 PM by keen
Hope the XP scaling will be done in a way that we can purly lvl with PvP kills within the bgs.
Wed 1 May 2019 9:35 PM by Sagaciousone
Maybe a compromise to the current system.

Keep the under 35 crowd in the BG's, but allow participation credit, for the RvR task(s), to be completed in the BG's how it currently works.

Less grays running around out in the frontiers, prior to level 35, and a healthy BG population for those learning to RvR/Group/Level. This way, you don't have to change anything for mobs, quests, etc AND maybe give a good XP/RP boost for taking CK (I still don't know why BG CK's are part of the DF count as if you remove /xp off you can't stay in it, therefore it's only for the leveling folks and no real way to impact that at level 50).

I am also one of those that like to have a toon in the BG's. It's a great way to 'Take a Break' from big boy RvR. With that said, I'd vote to keep /xp off as an option. With the patch, /rp off wouldn't even matter as you can still /repsec until 50.

Cheers!
Wed 1 May 2019 9:59 PM by Roto23
Sagaciousone wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 9:35 PM
Maybe a compromise to the current system.

Keep the under 35 crowd in the BG's, but allow participation credit, for the RvR task(s), to be completed in the BG's how it currently works.

Less grays running around out in the frontiers, prior to level 35, and a healthy BG population for those learning to RvR/Group/Level. This way, you don't have to change anything for mobs, quests, etc AND maybe give a good XP/RP boost for taking CK (I still don't know why BG CK's are part of the DF count as if you remove /xp off you can't stay in it, therefore it's only for the leveling folks and no real way to impact that at level 50).

I am also one of those that like to have a toon in the BG's. It's a great way to 'Take a Break' from big boy RvR. With that said, I'd vote to keep /xp off as an option. With the patch, /rp off wouldn't even matter as you can still /repsec until 50.

Cheers!

You may be wrong about /rp off. If your 3L1 and do an rp respec, your still not getting back into Thid
Wed 1 May 2019 10:00 PM by lurker
please please keep /xp off
Wed 1 May 2019 10:12 PM by Numatic
Suggestion

Remove the cap on BGs for RPs. Simply greatly reduce the amount of RPs earned past their current cap.

Personally I like to keep a toon in the BGs for a little side fun. But I understand you dont want to keep people there indefinitely so I suggest a compromise.

Add a new command

/xp low

Greatly reduces the xp gained. That way people can stay longer in the BGs if they choose. But they cant fully stop themselves from leveling out.

It's very easy to reach thid (where most end up staying) so it's not hard to lvl a new toon to 24.
Wed 1 May 2019 10:15 PM by SaintRon
Cruella wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 5:29 PM
First you give us a candy with one hand and slap us after with the other one. RP/XP OFF is the foundation of BG toons. Why remove it

BG toons are why a lot of people avoid BGs.

It's supposed to be a training ground not a "LOL I can own noobs" area.
Wed 1 May 2019 10:52 PM by Roks
BGs are great and all. But I think the main reasons why people liked the task bonus was that it helped level up significantly faster when you are solo or waiting on find an xp group. Also upon reach level 50, your RR isnt gimped and you just wasted all of that time leveling, probably temping out and etc just to get owned by a trashy rr10 stealther repeatedly.
Wed 1 May 2019 10:56 PM by cuuchulain79
SaintRon wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 10:15 PM
Cruella wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 5:29 PM
First you give us a candy with one hand and slap us after with the other one. RP/XP OFF is the foundation of BG toons. Why remove it

BG toons are why a lot of people avoid BGs.

It's supposed to be a training ground not a "LOL I can own noobs" area.

I found the server to be pretty easy to compete in BGs w/o twinking...just save useful looking ROGs and piece it together when ready...my last BG toon wound up pretty well equipped and had a couple swap gems for spirit and heat resist.../shrug

I always found it fun to wear the miss-matched pink green blue & brown and beat up the all black dyed try-hards
Wed 1 May 2019 11:02 PM by cuuchulain79
Roks wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 10:52 PM
BGs are great and all. But I think the main reasons why people liked the task bonus was that it helped level up significantly faster when you are solo or waiting on find an xp group. Also upon reach level 50, your RR isnt gimped and you just wasted all of that time leveling, probably temping out and etc just to get owned by a trashy rr10 stealther repeatedly.

See, but if you play in the BGs until 4L5, you might learn to not just /lemming walk in a straight line...just sayin...
Thu 2 May 2019 12:38 AM by waffel
Removing /xp off?

Like I’m honestly confused with these recent changes. Did you take on Uthgard devs or something?

You do know removing /xp off will just make players suicide to reduce their bar to 0 once it starts to get high, right? Smh
Thu 2 May 2019 12:47 AM by florin
Roks wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 10:52 PM
BGs are great and all. But I think the main reasons why people liked the task bonus was that it helped level up significantly faster when you are solo or waiting on find an xp group. Also upon reach level 50, your RR isnt gimped and you just wasted all of that time leveling, probably temping out and etc just to get owned by a trashy rr10 stealther repeatedly.

Phixion strikes again !
Thu 2 May 2019 3:17 AM by Warlay
honestly the changes are too late the big whales are already fed with 394823 solo kills from that. Also is not a good idea to want that the population in the BG is healty whereas you on the other hand remove the xp off command.

btw: we want lions den!!!!! (best bg in my life)
instead of cathal valley, introduce molvik for 39 (much better)
Thu 2 May 2019 3:53 AM by Grax
I really like the change of making the task 35 and over, that is essential for the BGs to be viable, if they can be saved at this point.

In theory raising the rp cap for the BGs sounds like fun, but with /xp off not working,, isn't that essentially meaningless? In thid you might get a little past the current 2L5 limit, but there is no way you are going to get close to the rp cap in the bgs without leveling out if you can't turn xp off.
Thu 2 May 2019 6:41 AM by k3mra
I think it would be nice if you can turn in the xp items on the higher BGs top.
Lets say i farmed the items for 25-29 but in my way to turn them in i met a group of 2 players.
I managed to Kill 1 of them and dinged to level 30. The other one filled me and now im out of the BG and my only option is to go to the next one.
I cant turn in the items and longer that i farmed.
It would be nice if i can still turn them in on the next bg
Thu 2 May 2019 6:50 AM by Lightsout1
Kappu wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 6:02 PM
Cruella wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 5:44 PM
Kappu wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 5:38 PM
Didn't you read what he said? They want to push you to end game RvR not keep you in the battleground. He even stated that's what keeps the server healthy is end game RvR.

There are people that acutaly like bgs more than big boy rvr. same stupid discussions like on live server. let everyone play the way they want... enforcing ... what a joke.
When there are ppl that just logg in for the bgs ..let em... whats better? loosing a player? because he doesnt want to get lvl50? that guy wouldnt play here in the first place then. So youre loosing nothing..

You take em /xp off? ok they start suiciding again to not levelup again.... they rr up? ok they delete and recreate. So that "law" does nothing execept "punish". For nothing.
Or do you really think that player would say "ok i cant do my favorite thing...bg... i lvl to 50 and rvr"... you must be really naive... its just another player lost.

You sitting in the BG's is the same thing as losing a player for the server you offer nothing to the health of it since you don't contribute to anything end game.

This.
Thu 2 May 2019 8:41 AM by Muschen
Lightsout1 wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 6:50 AM
Kappu wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 6:02 PM
Cruella wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 5:44 PM
There are people that acutaly like bgs more than big boy rvr. same stupid discussions like on live server. let everyone play the way they want... enforcing ... what a joke.
When there are ppl that just logg in for the bgs ..let em... whats better? loosing a player? because he doesnt want to get lvl50? that guy wouldnt play here in the first place then. So youre loosing nothing..

You take em /xp off? ok they start suiciding again to not levelup again.... they rr up? ok they delete and recreate. So that "law" does nothing execept "punish". For nothing.
Or do you really think that player would say "ok i cant do my favorite thing...bg... i lvl to 50 and rvr"... you must be really naive... its just another player lost.

You sitting in the BG's is the same thing as losing a player for the server you offer nothing to the health of it since you don't contribute to anything end game.

This.

You fail to see the bigger picture. Im really bad casual, i started playing Phoenix because i knew i could have some fun again in Thid with xp/rp off, i never had any intentions of going for lvl 50 RvR. I made a Hunter to 24 and spent some weeks in Thid, had a blast but got tired after a while. Then i made a RM for Thid, spent a few days there but eventually decided to keep going. Now im sitting here with temped lvl 50 RM and a lvl 50 BD and have not touched my Hunter for a month. I soloed both RM and BD to 50 without a single group because i realized that it was easy to do as a casual. If it wasnt for BGs and rp/xp off i wouldnt even have played here.

BGs are meant to give undecided players a chance to try it out, and if they like it they will probably eventually go for 50. If they dont like it, they will quit. You cant force a player to grind 24-36h to lvl 50, then force them to template.

If you keep rp/xp off, you will have a small and steady playerbase spending all their time in BGs and feeds the players that pass by with fun and action.
You cant force these players to 50, they will reroll until they get tired and then quit, leaving empty BGs again.
Thu 2 May 2019 9:27 AM by Sepplord
Muschen wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 8:41 AM
Lightsout1 wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 6:50 AM
Kappu wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 6:02 PM
You sitting in the BG's is the same thing as losing a player for the server you offer nothing to the health of it since you don't contribute to anything end game.

This.

You fail to see the bigger picture. Im really bad casual, i started playing Phoenix because i knew i could have some fun again in Thid with xp/rp off, i never had any intentions of going for lvl 50 RvR. I made a Hunter to 24 and spent some weeks in Thid, had a blast but got tired after a while. Then i made a RM for Thid, spent a few days there but eventually decided to keep going. Now im sitting here with temped lvl 50 RM and a lvl 50 BD and have not touched my Hunter for a month. I soloed both RM and BD to 50 without a single group because i realized that it was easy to do as a casual. If it wasnt for BGs and rp/xp off i wouldnt even have played here.

BGs are meant to give undecided players a chance to try it out, and if they like it they will probably eventually go for 50. If they dont like it, they will quit. You cant force a player to grind 24-36h to lvl 50, then force them to template.

If you keep rp/xp off, you will have a small and steady playerbase spending all their time in BGs and feeds the players that pass by with fun and action.
You cant force these players to 50, they will reroll until they get tired and then quit, leaving empty BGs again.

the problem is, that twinked out BG-toons do not offer fun and learning action to new players inticing them to grind to 50 and get into bigboy RvR....they do quite the opposite.



Overall imo the changes sound good to me. I wish my hunter wasn't 50 already, so i could RR up more in the BGs...but well i will be profiting on other toons from thebeneficial effects.
The only thing i see in a bad light is the 30min task-ticks now. Missing a tasktick already is frustrating, making it twice as important/long only increases that problem. I understand that it is made to decrease the XP, but is it not possible to simply treat these tasks differently than the PvE tasks, and reduce/removing their XP without chanigng the RP-payout intervalls?
Being torn between AFK-idling 10-20minutes or missing out on 2k-3k RPS (probably more at lower RRs) doesn't sound appealing to me
Thu 2 May 2019 9:34 AM by Freedomcall
So if i understood correctly, players under lvl35 no more gets "rp welfare" for suiciding in BGs, right?
This is a bad move imo.
I like the idea to get rids of greys in rvr or keep battles, but think about the reason why they suicides like that.
It's becuz those realm points helped ppl lvling faster.
For, example, you can reach 2L0 fairly easy even with lvl25ish char, and melees can get like mop5 or casters get MCL+serenity2.
These really helped ppl leveling faster, even when we were solo.
And you are trying to get rid of those from ppl starting their new chars.

And one of the reason lowbie grps didn't rage quit after being ganked in fz while grinding was that "rp welfare".
There are ppl still go nuts after being ganked, but then i would say "Actually this is good for us, we get rps for free!"
I can already imagine ppl whining and rage quitting after being ganked in Snowdonia, Cruachan Gorge and Odin's Gate.
I think giving rp credits to under 35 when killed in above 3 zones(or 6 if you include SF, MC and yggdra) would be better than totally removing rp welfare.
Because lowbies in those zones will be just trying to xp, not to interfere end-game rvr.

And about BG RR cap:
20-24 Thidranki, max 3LO
25-29 Abermenai, max 3L5
30-34 Caledonia, max 4L0
35-39 Cathal Valley, max 4L5

This is too high imo.
I mean, imagine the fight between 2L7 vs 1L3 in thid.
This is like a fight against a person with purge2 and nothing and i can say 1L3 is never gonna win.
Even if you remove /xp off, there is another way to make it happen. SUICIDING.
When "LOL I own noobs" minded 2L5 skald roams all over the place, everyone will leave thid, hence BG will be abandoned.
Without getting rp credit by dying, this will get worse.

I myself stayed in Caledonia with my assasin char when the server started until 2L7.
Actually i tried to reach the cap then, but my rp gain was so small that i got too bored and had to leave.
(I wasn't planning to stay there forever, So i used /xp off but not /rp off)
Based on my experience, I can say with the cap of 4L0 or 4L5, you can literally stay in Cale or Cathal forever.
Result? There will be solo stealther/skalds farming noobs 24/7 and those farmers will never come out to end-game RvR.
As someone stated above, this is just as same as losing server population.
Thu 2 May 2019 10:08 AM by Muschen
Sepplord wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 9:27 AM
Muschen wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 8:41 AM
Lightsout1 wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 6:50 AM
This.

You fail to see the bigger picture. Im really bad casual, i started playing Phoenix because i knew i could have some fun again in Thid with xp/rp off, i never had any intentions of going for lvl 50 RvR. I made a Hunter to 24 and spent some weeks in Thid, had a blast but got tired after a while. Then i made a RM for Thid, spent a few days there but eventually decided to keep going. Now im sitting here with temped lvl 50 RM and a lvl 50 BD and have not touched my Hunter for a month. I soloed both RM and BD to 50 without a single group because i realized that it was easy to do as a casual. If it wasnt for BGs and rp/xp off i wouldnt even have played here.

BGs are meant to give undecided players a chance to try it out, and if they like it they will probably eventually go for 50. If they dont like it, they will quit. You cant force a player to grind 24-36h to lvl 50, then force them to template.

If you keep rp/xp off, you will have a small and steady playerbase spending all their time in BGs and feeds the players that pass by with fun and action.
You cant force these players to 50, they will reroll until they get tired and then quit, leaving empty BGs again.

the problem is, that twinked out BG-toons do not offer fun and learning action to new players inticing them to grind to 50 and get into bigboy RvR....they do quite the opposite.

According to the devs, the problem isnt twinked BG-toons, the problem is that people who they think wants to play lvl 50 RvR, plays BG instead. Why would they do that when its so easy to lvl?

My hunter got cap stats and skills with RoGs while lvling, the difference between me and the few twinked toon was not much. I saw maybe 4-5 twinked stealthers in my time there. On this server, with great RoGs, the ease of creating a farming toon, getting a lvl 24 twinked is easier for a new player than a lvl 50 temped toon. You only need some crafted gear and maybe a weapon. No procs, no charges, no feather items. I cant really see the difference between me having to fight for my life against a cyborg in lvl 50 RvR or against a slightly better twinked person in BG. The difference between a toon with RoGs in BGs and a twinked is less than a ghetto temped and a hardcore temped toon in bigboy RvR. But still, that wasnt the issue for the devs.
Thu 2 May 2019 10:18 AM by Bradekes
Uthred wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 5:26 PM
Respec & Rp/XP off:
Rp & XP off will be removed. Free respecs until level 50 will stay, but the realm rank wont matter anymore. As long as you are below level 50 you will be able to free respec as often as you like, no matter what realm rank you have.

XP off is a very important feature.. But leaving RP off is understandable.. People will just suicide which becomes an annoyance and those high RR caps should keep people happy in BGs for a good amount of time.. People may just reroll lowbies for thid though because its not hard getting lvl 20
Thu 2 May 2019 10:20 AM by Lollie
Thing is if you do have people perma camped in battleground then at least you know there are fights to be had, nothing worse than going to thid say running around and not finding anyone.
Thu 2 May 2019 10:25 AM by Sepplord
just a thing to consider @people saying XP-Off needs to stay...

that would allow people to stay at 49.5 with unlimited respeccs, now not only for PvE but also for PvP which might lead to problems with people resetting timers (or changing to different actives)

I already considered not going to 50 on my hunter, to be able to differentiate between greens/blues/yellows and real enemies.
Thu 2 May 2019 10:49 AM by lurker
Sepplord wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 10:25 AM
just a thing to consider @people saying XP-Off needs to stay...

that would allow people to stay at 49.5 with unlimited respeccs, now not only for PvE but also for PvP which might lead to problems with people resetting timers (or changing to different actives)

I already considered not going to 50 on my hunter, to be able to differentiate between greens/blues/yellows and real enemies.

Just allow ‘XP off’ under 40 perhaps. Or just raise the respec cap to RR4l5 (or RR5) without making it unlimited.
Thu 2 May 2019 11:08 AM by Tamy
Unlike your planned changes regarding buffs (which will hopefully not go live like that) this is a really cool and needed change!

Less annoying greys in the frontiers, more traffic in the bg's.

Although there should be a possibility to stay in the bg if someone is really enjoying it there. Like someone else suggested: /xpoff before L.40 for example.
Thu 2 May 2019 11:32 AM by Eidorf
I am a proud member of a guild that plays Thidranki almost exclusively (or did until it became a wasteland). I believe the argument for removing xp/rp off so folks go on to play 50 RvR is somewhat invalid as players that really enjoy BG's (Thidranki mostly) don't tend to migrate over to 50 RvR anyway. None of my guild did, they either stopped playing or just became very casual. I am confident that if the staff revitalised the BG's my guild will come back.

My suggestion would be to leave XP/RP off in the game so people can play how they want. If you want people to play 50 RvR more then make it more accessible to the casual player, currently it really isn't.

Bolg - Thidranki Blitz
Thu 2 May 2019 11:43 AM by lurker
Eidorf wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 11:32 AM
My suggestion would be to leave XP/RP off in the game so people can play how they want. If you want people to play 50 RvR more then make it more accessible to the casual player, currently it really isn't.

Lvl 50 RvR is quite accessible to casuals at the moment, but only if you enjoy Zerging / keeps. Which is fine, but if your not into that play style BGs are definitely a nice place to take a break whilst the realms zergs / flumps 16 man kill every small or 8 man in sight.
Thu 2 May 2019 12:14 PM by Freedomcall
Eidorf wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 11:32 AM
I am a proud member of a guild that plays Thidranki almost exclusively (or did until it became a wasteland). I believe the argument for removing xp/rp off so folks go on to play 50 RvR is somewhat invalid as players that really enjoy BG's (Thidranki mostly) don't tend to migrate over to 50 RvR anyway. None of my guild did, they either stopped playing or just became very casual. I am confident that if the staff revitalised the BG's my guild will come back.

My suggestion would be to leave XP/RP off in the game so people can play how they want. If you want people to play 50 RvR more then make it more accessible to the casual player, currently it really isn't.

Bolg - Thidranki Blitz

I'm afraid to say that this comment shows why boosting BG is dangerous for the server.
BG becoming the 'ultimate goal' for playing phoenix means population of the server being literally divided.
Phoenix is not the server with like 10k players, and the population on late NA/Asian time has already decreased under 1k.
I remember uthgard last year when there were 20ish hib players in Caledonia(lvl42-47) when Dun Dagda was being attacked.
Battle Group leader was spamming for relic defense, but i saw most of the players in Caledonia just enjoying fights in their league.

I'm not saying that dedicated BG players are doing a bad thing. All those players have a right to enjoy this game in their own way.
BUT allowing something and boosting something is different.
Devs should always consider how new updates will impact the whole server, and think about what is good for a 'healthy server'.
Boosting BGs could result in creating some isolated leagues and you know that isn't contributing for the server.
Thu 2 May 2019 12:22 PM by Freedomcall
And about /xp off.
I'm kinda in between pros and cons of /xp off removal.
But the thing is, removing /xp off won't be effective at all cuz you can still lose xp by suicide(jumping from walls or dying to mobs).
If you really want to make /xp off unable, you have to change the system, unable losing xp in any case even when you're dead from mobs.
Only then /xp off will mean something as you intended.
Thu 2 May 2019 12:39 PM by Pedro
A lot of good changes, the points that I see that may need some tweaking:

- Currently lowbies starting at lvl 10 do level up on mobs in the FZ. Before getting ganked was rewarding even if little, with the change it will be down to simply griefing as it will just be time wasted to return to the xp spot to keep getting killed. How do we fix this? Prevent killing under 35 to count for rvr task (they already don't count for rp's nor for personal kill count). OR remove under lvl35 mobs from FZ to encourage the lowbies to go xp in the BG's.

- The EXP moves a lot faster than RP's in BG's, so hitting the lvl cap will be faster than the rp cap. This means a lot of extra work on the player's to suicide to mobs just to lose exp to stay in the BG.

But Id'd like to see how this plays out!
Thu 2 May 2019 1:32 PM by Strays
I don't understand removing RP task suiciding at lower levels.. It's a great way for classes that don't perform well alone to get exp during slow times, and allows people to hit 50 with reasonable strength instead of rr1l0 vs rr10s.. It also allows classes that don't function well alone to supplement their strength at lower levels via things like MoP/IP/MoB/FE so that they can play when groups don't want to include them. (Stealthers, Archers, Light-melee dps)

Is the concern too much exp? Too much RP for 'no work' ?

I don't understand the train of thought behind denying players exp/rp from being ganked by level 50's until 35 -- and then heavily reduced at 35.. One of the main silver linings to being grey ganked is that you get experience and RP for it, so your time isn't totally ruined. This change just incentives 50's spam plowing lowbies as fast as they can because there's no reason not to anymore. You're no longer rewarding them for you killing them with zero contest, you're just killing them every chance you get. This is going to cause a significant ballooning in higher realm rank higher level players, and perpetually held down lower level players.. The higher levels will continue to get tons of RP off the task bonus, but the lower levels will receive nothing except for wasted time and a run back..

I'm all for trying to revitalize battlegrounds like Thidranki, etc -- but this is the wrong way to do it.. you're just hurting people's ability to play alone, and people under 35 that get ganked by 50's..

Why not consider something like large RP bonuses inside of the battleground with the new RP cap changes? Maybe bonus exp for leveling inside a bg? Perhaps put a HUGE RP bonus on taking/defending the middle keeps? Maybe you could remove the RP bonus from lower level tasks, and just have a large exp bonus? Or allowing the task-item hand in to be done multiple times inside of BGs so that people have a reason to go there? I just feel like there's a lot of answers available that aren't deliberately punishing solo players, and lowbies -- while removing the incentive to avoid ganking grays..
Thu 2 May 2019 1:39 PM by Pops999
The BG's will die all over again. You are dreaming if this is a fix.

What you did is stop lowbies from gaining RA's early on. Good job, the crying won.
Thu 2 May 2019 1:41 PM by Salusa
I am not normally taken to writing in the forums, and confess I have not read all of the replies to the proposal, but I have read the proposal carefully.

One of the great things about this server is that you could get involved on the frontiers from the get go, and not be penalised by getting nothing, for doing so. It means that many more people will be in RvR at any one time and also means you can try many toons without having to get to higher levels. It gives everybody an investment in the realm they choose to play in. By restricting it to 35+ (for rewards) you are cutting loose a whole swathe of players.

Servers die when they loose their casual players. They die when those who are not all "Leets" are just target drones and have no real prospect of catching those who have effectively infinite time on line.

The current system does promote people being active and not minding being killed because they are doing something for the realm. yes this does suffer some abuse, but a lot more players are glad that it is there, they can contribute, even if it is just upping the bogey numbers in a multiple bogey situation, which means the Leets have to look around and do more, if I distract a RR10, then my realms RR10 has a better shot at doing more.

I get the argument about the BGs but they should not be promoted over the FZ. Sure make them more attractive, but no need to force people there.

Phoenix had it right, I cannot see why that should be changed, with infinite respecs and immediate meaningful access to the FZ, people can play all the variations they dream up and still progress, you are not forced into a cookie cutter progression and can do as you will. Forcing people to rush to 35+ just means more will leave, coercion rarely works well in an MMO. Leave things be on the Frontier, let the server be for the Leets AND the casuals, that way it will not die.
Thu 2 May 2019 1:54 PM by Seigmoraig
Too bad about getting the RPs for suiciding as a grey

1 suicide run got you 1L3, enough for Tireless, LW and Serenity. 3-4 more uns like this when the task changes got you to 1L6 easy to get MCL which jumpstarts a new character really really well !
Thu 2 May 2019 2:06 PM by cere2
I dig the changes except for the 35+ in RvR.
If people still want to choose this way to level who cares, it definitely is not the best way, but might keep people from just logging off. If I can level 3 times faster in BG's I'm definitely playing in the BG's.
But I also think doing this kills all reason for lowbies to explore the FZ's.
Finding new camps in the FZ and getting that extra 400% because you found a giant camp at lvl 26 etc is awesome.
And when you get slayed by a 50 it was OK...because atleast you knew you had some xp/rp inc from that.
Without the reward, there are too many pricks that will just grief you for the lulz. And this will kill any/all incentive to go to the FZ for xp.

TL/DR Awesome change. But make it just an added choice, no FZ changes.
Thu 2 May 2019 2:07 PM by NeoMatrix
While I understand the motivations here, I believe BGs as they were implemented on live back in the day were flawed.

- Even before the ability to disable RP/XP in these zones they were plagued with twinking/buff bots.
- While they provided a dip into RvR, they didn't do a good job of portraying the end game RvR experience
- Creating an XP fast track in BGs I believe kills the chance for players to feel like they are part of the realm, time spent in PvE with others was a chance for people to get to know one another outside the high intensity that can be RvR

Historically if you look at the impacts of the catacombs XP instances and then the changes Broadsword made to BGs on live it killed a large sense of what the world was. I see a number of changes happening on this server that were.... 'disheartening'... mostly because on the surface they feel like history repeating themselves. Adding fast tracks that skip the process of leveling are always desirable, but there are hidden benefits that I think are important not to overlook.

Shortly after hopping into Phoenix for the first time a few weeks back I was telling some friends that for the first time in 15(?) years I hopped into an MMO and grouped with some folks... and we hung out and moved from camp to camp... and it was GREAT!

All that said, I just wanted to express some concern over history repeating itself, and maybe the goal is to try to be historically accurate with minor modifications... but reading the various responses and discussions happening I believe while people enjoyed BGs, they were at their best when they were a side activity that was fun once ina while... but when it became the main event.. it all fell down.

I also believe this holds true for what I understood to be the primary gameplay loop for small/solo players end game... I understand there is a strong dislike for needing to PvE in order to get materials to RvR at peak efficiency... but this created a loop where the ven diagram of PvE/RvR overlaps in a good way for both sides.

I also understand the BGs serve as an avenue for obtaining RAs early, which isn't a bad thing, but I believe its important to not treat BGs as an alternate leveling track that splits the lower level player base.

Yes, this post was purely an old man dumping his thoughts... gl hf out there.
Thu 2 May 2019 2:37 PM by Bradekes
Sepplord wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 10:25 AM
just a thing to consider @people saying XP-Off needs to stay...

that would allow people to stay at 49.5 with unlimited respeccs, now not only for PvE but also for PvP which might lead to problems with people resetting timers (or changing to different actives)

I already considered not going to 50 on my hunter, to be able to differentiate between greens/blues/yellows and real enemies.

Suiciding still allows this just with more hassle.. Also free respecs stop at 3L0 so if people want to stay 49.5 forever they'd just be pve toons anyways
Thu 2 May 2019 2:44 PM by Bradekes
Quite honestly though, the server is slowly losing people anyways, natural attrition maybe, but the point is Phoenix needs to heed as many caveats as possible to keep people..

What's unhealthy for a server is the same thing that D&D DMs have to follow - do not make the ride a rollercoaster - do not force a path.

If some people want to hug the battlegrounds let them!! It will give the ones just going into the BG some life to enjoy to their next step of progression while allowing the BG huggers to have an outlet that they enjoy..

Never forget a game is meant to be played by the players not the idea of the person who runs it.. People like open world ideas not feeling stuck in a queue
Thu 2 May 2019 3:03 PM by Pops999
The BG's lovers couldn't allow you to have an alternative path, you have to be forced to play with them. The level 50's couldn't allow grays to interfere, so they had to be quashed.

The pop is slowly declining, my play time has decreased also. But I did still log in and level a few lowbie alts to grab some RA's. I had fun adding on to fights, helping my fellow realm mates survive, will taking my one shot. Couldn't have that could we?

So for the first time, in a long time, I saw the choose a realm screen this morning. I logged out instead. Good job, one less casual.
Thu 2 May 2019 3:26 PM by cuuchulain79
I love how greys claimed to be 'helping their realm' and 'enjoying it.'

But now that they don't get free RP, they don't want to go 'help their realm mates' anymore.

Thu 2 May 2019 3:27 PM by Pops999
Oh you can't figure out why? Think hard kid.
Thu 2 May 2019 3:31 PM by Stoertebecker
Bradekes wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 2:44 PM
Never forget a game is meant to be played by the players not the idea of the person who runs it..

It`s played by players that share the idea that the person(s) had, and nothing else. If you don`t like the idea, don`t play it instead of trying to change the game to your benefits.
Thu 2 May 2019 3:38 PM by cuuchulain79
Pops999 wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 3:27 PM
Oh you can't figure out why? Think hard kid.

Wait...

Hmmm...



Gosh, I have nothing! If you like adding on fights and helping your realm mates...go help em out! Just watch out for Cliff Beetles...wouldn't want an xp death making level 12 that much harder to clinch.
Thu 2 May 2019 3:46 PM by Muschen
Freedomcall wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 12:14 PM
Eidorf wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 11:32 AM
I am a proud member of a guild that plays Thidranki almost exclusively (or did until it became a wasteland). I believe the argument for removing xp/rp off so folks go on to play 50 RvR is somewhat invalid as players that really enjoy BG's (Thidranki mostly) don't tend to migrate over to 50 RvR anyway. None of my guild did, they either stopped playing or just became very casual. I am confident that if the staff revitalised the BG's my guild will come back.

My suggestion would be to leave XP/RP off in the game so people can play how they want. If you want people to play 50 RvR more then make it more accessible to the casual player, currently it really isn't.

Bolg - Thidranki Blitz

I'm afraid to say that this comment shows why boosting BG is dangerous for the server.
BG becoming the 'ultimate goal' for playing phoenix means population of the server being literally divided.
Phoenix is not the server with like 10k players, and the population on late NA/Asian time has already decreased under 1k.
I remember uthgard last year when there were 20ish hib players in Caledonia(lvl42-47) when Dun Dagda was being attacked.
Battle Group leader was spamming for relic defense, but i saw most of the players in Caledonia just enjoying fights in their league.

I'm not saying that dedicated BG players are doing a bad thing. All those players have a right to enjoy this game in their own way.
BUT allowing something and boosting something is different.
Devs should always consider how new updates will impact the whole server, and think about what is good for a 'healthy server'.
Boosting BGs could result in creating some isolated leagues and you know that isn't contributing for the server.

No, it does not show that, it shows that Phoenix attracts a group of people that would not play here otherwise. And these people adds to the overall population which is good for a healthy server. Some of them move on to 50 which is even better.

I have seen 20-100 people take the relic more than 10 times while BG leaders spam region and advice for help. The rest of the realm is busy farming feathers or zerging in emain. And this is while the BGs were empty.

Could you explain to me which playstyles contribute to the server and which playstyles are not?
Thu 2 May 2019 3:50 PM by Sepplord
Bradekes wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 2:37 PM
Sepplord wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 10:25 AM
just a thing to consider @people saying XP-Off needs to stay...

that would allow people to stay at 49.5 with unlimited respeccs, now not only for PvE but also for PvP which might lead to problems with people resetting timers (or changing to different actives)

I already considered not going to 50 on my hunter, to be able to differentiate between greens/blues/yellows and real enemies.

Suiciding still allows this just with more hassle.. Also free respecs stop at 3L0 so if people want to stay 49.5 forever they'd just be pve toons anyways

Respeccs only stop at lvl50, there is no RR cap anymore after these cahnges go through....that's my point

I initially didn't think of suiciding, yep, but making half a level in RvR could go quite fast, i don't know how long it takes to suicide a few bubbles away, but having to leave your group regularly to suicide XP away could be enough of a detriment (since the benefit is also quite small)
Thu 2 May 2019 3:57 PM by cuuchulain79
If no /xp off, can there be a custom RA called 'Swan Dive" that boosts the amount of xp loss each death?
Thu 2 May 2019 5:02 PM by Lillebror
Seigmoraig wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 1:54 PM
Too bad about getting the RPs for suiciding as a grey

1 suicide run got you 1L3, enough for Tireless, LW and Serenity. 3-4 more uns like this when the task changes got you to 1L6 easy to get MCL which jumpstarts a new character really really well !

Why not just Get them for free while leveling instead. Rr2 at 30, rr3 at 40 or so thing simular. Running somewhere to suiside is not a good mechanic
Thu 2 May 2019 5:11 PM by Bradekes
Stoertebecker wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 3:31 PM
It`s played by players that share the idea that the person(s) had, and nothing else. If you don`t like the idea, don`t play it instead of trying to change the game to your benefits.

How is being acceptable of BG twinks me trying to change things to my benefit... Just because I'm not a controlling person doesn't mean I'm saying this selfishly...

BG twinks have been a thing forever.. Sometimes when you're having a bad night in the frontiers it's nice to play in a more controlled environment.. This server is now trying to promote the idea of populating the BGs I'm just saying that's one thing mythic got right... /rps off and /xp off are both good parts of the game...

I think changing things like that will push more people away than bring
Thu 2 May 2019 5:24 PM by Mauriac
This is a great proposed change. Now rethink the charging BS and you guys will be back to perfect.
Thu 2 May 2019 5:27 PM by Seigmoraig
Lillebror wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 5:02 PM
Seigmoraig wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 1:54 PM
Too bad about getting the RPs for suiciding as a grey

1 suicide run got you 1L3, enough for Tireless, LW and Serenity. 3-4 more uns like this when the task changes got you to 1L6 easy to get MCL which jumpstarts a new character really really well !

Why not just Get them for free while leveling instead. Rr2 at 30, rr3 at 40 or so thing simular. Running somewhere to suiside is not a good mechanic

Sure it's not perfect, but just dumping RRs on people as they level is not a solution. At least this way you need to atleast dip your pinky into the rvr section to get rvr points
Thu 2 May 2019 5:42 PM by Bradekes
Sepplord wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 3:50 PM
I initially didn't think of suiciding, yep, but making half a level in RvR could go quite fast, i don't know how long it takes to suicide a few bubbles away, but having to leave your group regularly to suicide XP away could be enough of a detriment (since the benefit is also quite small)

People did it all the time... There were so many graves at DL back in the day because people would bind on the wall and just keep jumping off.. And people don't care they will do it.. I will do it, mainly because I'd wanna hit RR cap before I leave each BG...

They won't be accomplishing much by this change if they don't allow those who want sustainable BG play to have that option... Mainly because BGs will still be dead and people will just wait til 35 to get task rps..

At most on live it was like 100 people in a bg which is like 3-10% of the population.. I don't see the big deal
Thu 2 May 2019 6:06 PM by BorealManager5
Enabling players to level by doing rvr is a worthy goal. Improving rewards in BG and simultaneously removing xp/rp off seems an adequate way to achieve this.

DaoC balancing is hard enough as it is. No need having to consider 2-3 completely op class/spec combinations that result from getting JUST THAT special set of brand new lv24 34 39 set of spells/abilitys and the people that abuse this by farming the living .. out of others who go there untemped w/o alch buffs just to level.

I know that's how it was on life, but there nobody used BGs to LEVEL.


I am not in favour of reducing task reward for lv35 and slightly above. These toons already provide people who kill them with substantial rp rewards compared to the almost non existent effort in killing them. Incentives to go level in BG are one thing punishing players who might just no enjoys the experience BGs provide is not necessary.

That said I enjoyed every form of the task until now. On chars ranging from 20 to 49. At 50 task are frankly no longer a concern, just some bonus rp that happen to come along with the rvr I would do if they did not exist at all.

So go ahead change is life!
Thu 2 May 2019 6:09 PM by waffel
cuuchulain79 wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 3:57 PM
If no /xp off, can there be a custom RA called 'Swan Dive" that boosts the amount of xp loss each death?

Perfect idea. Also, because we're below 50, we can respec our RAs for free to Swan Dive then respec back once we're done.

Phoenix Staff, hire this man. He'll fit perfectly.
Thu 2 May 2019 6:14 PM by Pops999
cuuchulain79 wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 3:38 PM
Pops999 wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 3:27 PM
Oh you can't figure out why? Think hard kid.

Wait...

Hmmm...



Gosh, I have nothing! If you like adding on fights and helping your realm mates...go help em out! Just watch out for Cliff Beetles...wouldn't want an xp death making level 12 that much harder to clinch.

Guess it was just too hard for you. Forcing your style of game play onto others?

Meanwhile the rule set here drifts even further from Classic.
Thu 2 May 2019 6:48 PM by dbj
I can take or leave the BG changes, but making it impossible to gain the XP rewards for participating in RvR through tasks really leaves a bitter taste - those bonuses were the only thing that kept me going soloing my NS, and alternating those with doing item tasks was the only viable way to do it in an acceptable time.
With that option gone, I foresee a big barrier for new players coming up.
Thu 2 May 2019 7:25 PM by Lydrayn
Forcing a goal and objective will never work well, plenty of examples in past iterations of the game, why not simply make that from level 1 to 34 you are not able to get rps in FZ, but still get the xp. If below level 34 you can get rp credit from task by simply and only joining in BG actions.
Thu 2 May 2019 7:30 PM by cuuchulain79
I love all the pre-QQ about BG twinks...as though anybody will ever accept they probably just died to another casual player in ROG gear.

But, not as much as I love the claims of removing free RP tasks for greys is "drifting further from classic."

Patch Notes November 2003:
We're happy to introduce free 'contribution RPs' to any player of any level, that dies in RvR. We hope that this will give new characters 20 or so Realm Skill points by the time they're 50. This will help cauals feel more significant in the game, as well as create many tough rr10 opponents for them to face later. Also, despite level 50 being achievable in ~24 hours, free realm skill points should hopefully get that down to ~23 hours & 45 minutes. The 15 minutes saved, should give new players a chance to decide what class to roll next.
Thu 2 May 2019 7:39 PM by Roto23
the only solution is to allow xp / rp off for level 20-24 and see how this affects big boy RVR. Anything other then that is just guessing. Some say it won't affect big boy RVR and others say it will. I say enough of the talk, lets test and see.
Thu 2 May 2019 8:01 PM by Sagaciousone
Maybe we need to know the issues here? Is there some info/data showing detrimental results of having greys in the OF or the BG's being empty?

Is having greys in OF the issue? Why were more mobs, for lower levels, added?

Someone mentioned Patch Notes from November 2003 with 'contribution RPs', what is the hope to change the current system? Force people into the BGs?

For me, personally, I enjoyed taking my level 15+ out to OF and getting involved with keep takes and such. There was a reward at the end for participation and EVEN a grey can take a flag, because I've done it and it allowed the 40+ crowd to port. This also allowed new players a chance to 'get to know' their realm and subsequent 'other realms'.

Why take this away? On one hand, it's 'Let's get the BG population up' and on the other hand it seems like 'But don't let them stay in there too long'.

This is a dangerous path that can lead to folks leaving the game. Being able to play the game the way you want is what defined DAoC way back when, especially with the variety of classes each realm has.

Even the Buff Change seems to be repeating history. You have specific classes with buffs because... Well... That's what they can contribute to their group. Removing/changing this dynamic leads down the road to the mess know as LIVE. A homogenized mess of classes with /use galore facilitating class defining abilities.

The case is, that the lower population IS leveling off the current system, both XP and RP.

Someone mentioned the increase in RRs for the BGs in another post and it's valid to think that new folks coming in to the BG's at RR1L0 can be ganked over and over by a RR3L0. That is WAY to great a gap to keep things on a even keel. It's no longer a game of like level, like abilities, even in the lowest level BG.

A structure was setup with the RvR task system, even for low levels. WHAT is the issue with the current system? Is it that the BG's are empty? If that is the case, provide an ALTERNATE avenue for low level progression through the BG's and not a MANDATED way of progression. Closing doors on certain avenues to XP/RP level is probably going to drive some folks away especially when the current system has been in place for as long as it has. Let's keep the 'contribution RPs' in place and just enjoy the game...

Cheers!
Thu 2 May 2019 8:43 PM by Muradin
Love the changes, there is nothing more annoying then getting run over by a zerg or losing a fight, because a grey broke speed. There were way too many greys in emain, and the other zones looking for someone to hit them so they could get task cred. It was either this option, or make greys worth way more xp in rvr, which would just make rps even easier to get then they already are. Forcing the greys into bgs to kill eachother and forcing them out of the bgs is a great idea. Alot of people dont bother lvling in bgs because people just build twinks and murder everything. Twinks to much more harm then good in the bgs imo.

I like all the changes, in regards to xp off, once you hit lvl 49, there should be an option to turn it off. Some people like the free respecs for farming, and there are still newer players arriving to the game who are unsure how to spec their toon.

Maybe do this change and reconsider the buff pot change (but drop 20 max buffs haha, thats pretty annoying for the buff classes!)

Keep up the great work!
Thu 2 May 2019 8:53 PM by Stoertebecker
Bradekes wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 5:11 PM
Stoertebecker wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 3:31 PM
It`s played by players that share the idea that the person(s) had, and nothing else. If you don`t like the idea, don`t play it instead of trying to change the game to your benefits.

How is being acceptable of BG twinks me trying to change things to my benefit... Just because I'm not a controlling person doesn't mean I'm saying this selfishly...

BG twinks have been a thing forever.. Sometimes when you're having a bad night in the frontiers it's nice to play in a more controlled environment.. This server is now trying to promote the idea of populating the BGs I'm just saying that's one thing mythic got right... /rps off and /xp off are both good parts of the game...

I think changing things like that will push more people away than bring

BG`s were thought as a catch up mechanic, that you can make some rp`s on your way to 50. It wasn`t meant that ppl stay there forever.
DAoC isn`t a arena-style mmorpg, it never was. Last but not least, it is still better as on Uthgard or Ywain.
Thu 2 May 2019 9:00 PM by waffel
Telling BG only players that they're playing the game wrong, and forcing them to play differently is ALWAYS a surefire way to keep players happy.

If a player has no interest in level 50 RvR, and only enjoys BGs, how is forcing them to quit the game a smart idea?
Thu 2 May 2019 9:09 PM by Bradekes
Stoertebecker wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 8:53 PM
BG`s were thought as a catch up mechanic, that you can make some rp`s on your way to 50. It wasn`t meant that ppl stay there forever.
DAoC isn`t a arena-style mmorpg, it never was. Last but not least, it is still better as on Uthgard or Ywain.

Where's your sources?? How can you claim something like that.. You know what they say about assuming... DAoC is not a singularity... It's multifaceted and allows for many play styles and always has...

They made pve server and pvp servers.. Thid and molvik were extremely popular for a long time.. And you know people enjoy that type of play.. If you don't, well guess what- go back out to FZ and enjoy your type of play...

One thing I cannot stand is people like you who think there's only one idea in the world and everybody better conform..
Thu 2 May 2019 9:13 PM by Stoertebecker
waffel wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 9:00 PM
Telling BG only players that they're playing the game wrong, and forcing them to play differently is ALWAYS a surefire way to keep players happy.

If a player has no interest in level 50 RvR, and only enjoys BGs, how is forcing them to quit the game a smart idea?

Was/is DAoC wellkown for it`s RvR or for it`s BG-action? Mhm, never heared from someone that he played 10y+ only in the bgs.

If you join a football team you should know that they`re not playing cricket.
Thu 2 May 2019 9:26 PM by Stoertebecker
Bradekes wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 9:09 PM
Stoertebecker wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 8:53 PM
BG`s were thought as a catch up mechanic, that you can make some rp`s on your way to 50. It wasn`t meant that ppl stay there forever.
DAoC isn`t a arena-style mmorpg, it never was. Last but not least, it is still better as on Uthgard or Ywain.

Where's your sources?? How can you claim something like that.. You know what they say about assuming... DAoC is not a singularity... It's multifaceted and allows for many play styles and always has...

They made pve server and pvp servers.. Thid and molvik were extremely popular for a long time.. And you know people enjoy that type of play.. If you don't, well guess what- go back out to FZ and enjoy your type of play...

One thing I cannot stand is people like you who think there's only one idea in the world and everybody better conform..

The source were several interviews with Mark Jacobs, Matt Frior etcetc, before they introduced the battlegrounds. Was that before your time?
What comes next from you? That the creators of DAoC had no clue what they were talking about?

Do you see a lot of ppl playing in the bg`s now? No? Why? Because they take the easy way.
If you wanna play in the bg, you can already do that. But isn`t fun playing in a wasteland, mhm? Thought playing over there is so amazing?
Btw... even Uthgard 2 lastet longer than the eu-pvp server camlann. Was a bushfire, not more, not less.
Thu 2 May 2019 9:45 PM by Bradekes
Stoertebecker wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 9:26 PM
If you wanna play in the bg, you can already do that. But isn`t fun playing in a wasteland, mhm? Thought playing over there is so amazing?

There's no reason to and hardly a way to effectively.. If you level up in the frontiers you get 1L4 before you hit level 20 just from getting ganked..

The RR limits were too low to justify playing.. I guarantee there'd be a lot of players in BG with the new changes especially if they didn't get rid of QoL features..

I'm just not understanding removing potential options from players... Especially BEFORE they implement their idea.. And I'd like to hear those interviews unless they didn't have microphones and video cameras back then you old man
Thu 2 May 2019 10:21 PM by Caemma
/xp off is needed to avoid useless suicides.
A command (or find a more "rpg way" to know if there are enemies lurking around the BGs is needed to encurange people to go / keep staying there.
A bg around lvl 42~ should there for proper training (i.e. slam)

Imho
Thu 2 May 2019 11:28 PM by The Skies Asunder
As a long time BG player on Live, and to echo the sentiments of many in this thread, I can't get behind the xp/rp off commands being removed. Nearly all the people that played the most popular BGs on live (Thidranki, and Molvik) were there because they wanted to PvP there, not because they "Needed a few realm skill points to help with leveling". Surely the people leveling, and just getting a few RPs were important to the population of the these battle grounds, but they almost certainly weren't the majority of the players. If the end goal is forced to be the same place for everyone, (Level 50 RvR) then why waste time getting points slowly in the BG, when you can just level to 50 and get RPs much faster in the frontiers?

Honestly though, I still don't see enough people going to the BGs with these changes, even if you keep xp/rp off, so long as the task is an available way to receive RPs at all. With the task catch up mechanism in place, it really eliminates the need to bother going to the BGs at all anyway, especially for players who don't want to stay there permanently.
Fri 3 May 2019 3:26 AM by Numatic
The BG's were very popular for several reasons. Let's refer to Thid, arguably the most popular, battlegrounds.

1. Much smaller grind. You weren't lvling to 50 to be able to PvP on par with everyone.
2. Buffbots were much less effective. While they gave you a distinct advantage, it was nowhere near the difference between a buffed 50 and an unbuffed 50 player.
3. Lack of charges and other items. You didnt have a backpack full items to fire off in combat.
4. Smaller skillset. You had a smaller pool of skills to choose from which made combat easier. This was a large driving force for the casuals because they could compete evenly in skill with a hardcore player.
5. Lack of meta. With lower end skills, the meta was much less effective.
6. Lack of RA's. You didnt have to worry about running into a rr10 player who can cream you as a rr3-4.

With all those reasons, did anyone ever wonder why they were so popular? The only reason they arent on Phoenix is because of how easy it is to get to 50 and how tasks were implemented. Removing XP/RP off will just cause aggravation because if someone intends to stay in the BG they will just lvl a new toon to 24. I'd like to keep one in there to get away from the repetitiveness of RvR sometimes.
Fri 3 May 2019 4:08 AM by Ashenspire
If you're going to get rid of rp task credit before 35, then all characters should start at 1L3.

Tireless, long wind, and serenity are all but necessary purchases for leveling purposes
Fri 3 May 2019 6:45 AM by Sepplord
waffel wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 9:00 PM
Telling BG only players that they're playing the game wrong, and forcing them to play differently is ALWAYS a surefire way to keep THOSE players happy.

If a player has no interest in level 50 RvR, and only enjoys BGs, how is forcing them to quit the game a smart idea?

FTFY

This server isn't run to get maximum subscriptions from the biggest possible amount of players playing...If their vision is to have a healthy and active endgame-RvR-population, then losing 100BG players to gain a single endgame RvRler is already a smart move.
You might want to argue that perma-BG players populate the battlegrounds and therefor are important to have, otherwise BGs might be too empty and the player moving through them doesn't get the chance to RvR before 50. That is not completely false, but there is also the effect of inticing others to also stay in the BGs instead of moving up. We don't know which effect is stronger.

This is just an explanation btw. i don't neccessarily agree with it. I just see that they are removing /xp off and to me that is a clear sign that tthey do not want people to endlessly stay at low levels. If too many people suicide to circumvent their intentions (some could even go as far as calling that an exploit), then they will find other ways to make that impossible
Fri 3 May 2019 7:27 AM by Stoertebecker
Bradekes wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 9:45 PM
Stoertebecker wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 9:26 PM
If you wanna play in the bg, you can already do that. But isn`t fun playing in a wasteland, mhm? Thought playing over there is so amazing?

There's no reason to and hardly a way to effectively.. If you level up in the frontiers you get 1L4 before you hit level 20 just from getting ganked..

The RR limits were too low to justify playing.. I guarantee there'd be a lot of players in BG with the new changes especially if they didn't get rid of QoL features..

I'm just not understanding removing potential options from players... Especially BEFORE they implement their idea.. And I'd like to hear those interviews unless they didn't have microphones and video cameras back then you old man

Don`t go to the frontiers if you wanna spend some time in the bgs, i would call that a clever idea.
You can reach lvl 20-24 here in what? 2h? 3h? Just by leveling in classic and si zones.

The bgs were always crowded, not all, but Thid, Molvik, Leirik, Cathal. Why? Not because it`s so amazing there. Just the fact that we had some 1k players more before BS took over. Even before the last clustering there were 5-8k players.

We`re playing on a free shard, on a very amazing freeshard and we are playing a 19y old game. I thought ppl are here for what made DAoC so unique and well known, it`s RvR system. Never thought that there are so many ppl around that play the game just for pve and such. Never heared about other games?

I´m not going to do your job, if you wanna read interviews go and search for them, shouldn`t be that hard.
But just in case that you fail, MJ, Frior and all other for DAoC responsible persons are still alive.
But beware, some are already old men like me.

I think we`ll get some form of /xp /rp off and all complaining about was for nothing.
The Devs here are smart, they made stuff already where other ppl failed for years, ppl that told us something like an account vault is not possible.
Fri 3 May 2019 8:36 AM by qq6
@uthred any eta on this patch, also if i go over RR3 now but stay 49.9, will my char get the free respecs again?

//ty
Fri 3 May 2019 10:26 AM by Bradekes
Stoertebecker wrote:
Fri 3 May 2019 7:27 AM
Don`t go to the frontiers if you wanna spend some time in the bgs, i would call that a clever idea.
You can reach lvl 20-24 here in what? 2h? 3h? Just by leveling in classic and si zones.

The bgs were always crowded, not all, but Thid, Molvik, Leirik, Cathal. Why? Not because it`s so amazing there. Just the fact that we had some 1k players more before BS took over. Even before the last clustering there were 5-8k players.

We`re playing on a free shard, on a very amazing freeshard and we are playing a 19y old game. I thought ppl are here for what made DAoC so unique and well known, it`s RvR system. Never thought that there are so many ppl around that play the game just for pve and such. Never heared about other games?

I´m not going to do your job, if you wanna read interviews go and search for them, shouldn`t be that hard.
But just in case that you fail, MJ, Frior and all other for DAoC responsible persons are still alive.
But beware, some are already old men like me.

I think we`ll get some form of /xp /rp off and all complaining about was for nothing.
The Devs here are smart, they made stuff already where other ppl failed for years, ppl that told us something like an account vault is not possible.

Well the thing is I just enjoy DAoC in general! Sometimes I wanna RvR, sometimes I wanna PvE, sometimes I wanna BG, and other times I just wanna play a different game... Hopefully your right that they decide to keep or make some sort of new /rp off - /xp off...

I just find it extremely odd that they would want to passively force players into their idealized version of the game... To me that's not what MMO are about, even 19y old games...

I know it's a freeshard, I am just a player who cares about the community and will voice my opinion when I feel like somethings wrong.. A lot of people think it's selfish opinions but honestly I have no biased... I've made my own server for DAoC and my own classes and I just love the game.. If I had the time I'd be running my own server.. But Devs always need to keep as many options for players as possible, people get bored or burned out and a refreshing change is always a great thing..
Fri 3 May 2019 2:09 PM by Dindelion
Reading posts like "better make players quit if they don't wanna play the way I want, it is better for the health of the server" is beyond me. Yeah, there are people that like doing something else than zerging emain, how is it bad there are multiple activities to do in game ? I don't know, why not letting people play the game how they want as long as they obey the rules ?

And by the way if you're scared too many people go into BGs permanently, that probably means there are some huge problems with current RvR.
Losing players is the last thing you want actually, I really can't understand some people's reasoning.
Fri 3 May 2019 2:39 PM by Stoertebecker
Bradekes wrote:
Fri 3 May 2019 10:26 AM
Stoertebecker wrote:
Fri 3 May 2019 7:27 AM
Don`t go to the frontiers if you wanna spend some time in the bgs, i would call that a clever idea.
You can reach lvl 20-24 here in what? 2h? 3h? Just by leveling in classic and si zones.

The bgs were always crowded, not all, but Thid, Molvik, Leirik, Cathal. Why? Not because it`s so amazing there. Just the fact that we had some 1k players more before BS took over. Even before the last clustering there were 5-8k players.

We`re playing on a free shard, on a very amazing freeshard and we are playing a 19y old game. I thought ppl are here for what made DAoC so unique and well known, it`s RvR system. Never thought that there are so many ppl around that play the game just for pve and such. Never heared about other games?

I´m not going to do your job, if you wanna read interviews go and search for them, shouldn`t be that hard.
But just in case that you fail, MJ, Frior and all other for DAoC responsible persons are still alive.
But beware, some are already old men like me.

I think we`ll get some form of /xp /rp off and all complaining about was for nothing.
The Devs here are smart, they made stuff already where other ppl failed for years, ppl that told us something like an account vault is not possible.

Well the thing is I just enjoy DAoC in general! Sometimes I wanna RvR, sometimes I wanna PvE, sometimes I wanna BG, and other times I just wanna play a different game... Hopefully your right that they decide to keep or make some sort of new /rp off - /xp off...

I just find it extremely odd that they would want to passively force players into their idealized version of the game... To me that's not what MMO are about, even 19y old games...

I know it's a freeshard, I am just a player who cares about the community and will voice my opinion when I feel like somethings wrong.. A lot of people think it's selfish opinions but honestly I have no biased... I've made my own server for DAoC and my own classes and I just love the game.. If I had the time I'd be running my own server.. But Devs always need to keep as many options for players as possible, people get bored or burned out and a refreshing change is always a great thing..

I like PvE content if it is good, variedly and sometimes challenging content, in a nice enviroment. Tbh...DAoC has none of these points, not after playing this game for 18y (with breaks) and several dozen lvl 50 in all 3 realms. There is only 1 thing that varies each day, and that is rvr.
I don`t understand ppl running the 30th tg raid, 20th dragon raid or 55th darkspire run. It was boring in 2004, it is boring today.
Not that i want to make some advertising for other games, but i play ESO for PvE and DAoC for RvR. Works perfectly, this way the risk of getting bored is a bit minimized.
Fri 3 May 2019 3:28 PM by oldmanukko
i don't agree at all with just removing "/xp off" completely

perhaps, it's only disabled if an account does NOT have a level 50 character? or two?

when the zergs are rollin' hard, it's nice to have another rvr choice. actually, anytime boredom with any activity sets in, it's nice to have another choice.
Fri 3 May 2019 4:14 PM by Fames
There is no way you get anywhere close to 3L0 without hitting level 25 before, so yes, you inevitably have to suicide a lot just to reach the max RR for Thid.
Fri 3 May 2019 4:50 PM by rodsta69
Stoertebecker wrote:
Fri 3 May 2019 2:39 PM
Bradekes wrote:
Fri 3 May 2019 10:26 AM
Stoertebecker wrote:
Fri 3 May 2019 7:27 AM
Don`t go to the frontiers if you wanna spend some time in the bgs, i would call that a clever idea.
You can reach lvl 20-24 here in what? 2h? 3h? Just by leveling in classic and si zones.

The bgs were always crowded, not all, but Thid, Molvik, Leirik, Cathal. Why? Not because it`s so amazing there. Just the fact that we had some 1k players more before BS took over. Even before the last clustering there were 5-8k players.

We`re playing on a free shard, on a very amazing freeshard and we are playing a 19y old game. I thought ppl are here for what made DAoC so unique and well known, it`s RvR system. Never thought that there are so many ppl around that play the game just for pve and such. Never heared about other games?

I´m not going to do your job, if you wanna read interviews go and search for them, shouldn`t be that hard.
But just in case that you fail, MJ, Frior and all other for DAoC responsible persons are still alive.
But beware, some are already old men like me.

I think we`ll get some form of /xp /rp off and all complaining about was for nothing.
The Devs here are smart, they made stuff already where other ppl failed for years, ppl that told us something like an account vault is not possible.

Well the thing is I just enjoy DAoC in general! Sometimes I wanna RvR, sometimes I wanna PvE, sometimes I wanna BG, and other times I just wanna play a different game... Hopefully your right that they decide to keep or make some sort of new /rp off - /xp off...

I just find it extremely odd that they would want to passively force players into their idealized version of the game... To me that's not what MMO are about, even 19y old games...

I know it's a freeshard, I am just a player who cares about the community and will voice my opinion when I feel like somethings wrong.. A lot of people think it's selfish opinions but honestly I have no biased... I've made my own server for DAoC and my own classes and I just love the game.. If I had the time I'd be running my own server.. But Devs always need to keep as many options for players as possible, people get bored or burned out and a refreshing change is always a great thing..

I like PvE content if it is good, variedly and sometimes challenging content, in a nice enviroment. Tbh...DAoC has none of these points, not after playing this game for 18y (with breaks) and several dozen lvl 50 in all 3 realms. There is only 1 thing that varies each day, and that is rvr.
I don`t understand ppl running the 30th tg raid, 20th dragon raid or 55th darkspire run. It was boring in 2004, it is boring today.
Not that i want to make some advertising for other games, but i play ESO for PvE and DAoC for RvR. Works perfectly, this way the risk of getting bored is a bit minimized.

You don't have to understand it. If you don't like doing it, don't do it. But saying other people are wrong for enjoying things that you don't enjoy makes no sense whatsoever. You don't get to dictate what is fun for other players.

On another note, as others have stated, getting that little bit of xp/rps while not suiciding on keeps but just trying to level in the frontier and getting ganked over and over was enough to keep frustration at bay for most of us. Oh well, we died and have to run back but we got a bubble of xp out of it so it's no big deal. Now with that being gone it'll either be f it and log off cause you're not making any progress anyway, or just not go to the frontiers to level, which means fewer people in the frontiers which is never a good thing. As someone else suggested, if you can leave the tasks on for <35 just in the newbie zones and even don't give them credit for suiciding on a keep or whatever, that will still keep the level 10s suiciding on Bledmeer from happening but not punish people getting ganked while just trying to level so they can join bigboy RvR which is the stated goal of all of this.
Fri 3 May 2019 7:58 PM by PingGuy
Every single one of these changes is good, except for the task change and removal of XP/RP-off. See, I'm on your side on that one, I want you to have XP/RP-off, well I did anyway. But since I'm losing the leveling benefits of the task, I think it's only fitting that you lose XP/RP-off.

I advocated for both features in previous suggestion threads, but the BG folks just couldn't handle other people having fun in a way they didn't like. And now I've adopted their shortsighted vision. Burn and pillage your potential allies, for they are strange and confusing. Complain about being forced to play a certain way, while advocating for making other people play a certain way. It's not effective, but it provides a certain ignorant satisfaction that is nearly substituted for happiness. Knowing you ended up unhappy makes me less unhappy. Maybe misery loves company, or maybe it's just infectious. Either way, I have a solution:

Once this is implemented--and the BG's are busy for a week, and then return to being dead--I suggest they restore the task and return the XP/RP-off commands. Then we can all be happy again. And this isn't anything against the Phoenix devs, they are trying, and they are using suggestions that players made here on the forums. I usually agree with them, but this time I don't, at least on those two things.
Fri 3 May 2019 8:43 PM by Duvodas
I am member of a Thid only guild and we really welcome any changes that will bring back population to the BGs. Since there was a real and clear break in BG Population with the new rvr task system, we became more and more inactive. We tried some 50s rvr but had no fun. Most became completely inactive then, others still run BGs, even if they had to wait 30min for a fight.
Don't disable xp/rp off! Like my guild, that would not result in forcing people to go 50s rvr, it will force them to stop playing.
Fri 3 May 2019 10:25 PM by Cantarella
Just wanted to chime in as another BG only player with 7 or so level 24s (not twinked because I don't even have any char higher than 24). I will be leaving if xp/rp off is removed.
Fri 3 May 2019 11:14 PM by cuuchulain79
I'm amazed at all of the QQ about sub 35s not getting free task RP...

I'm guessing it was changed b/c staff never thought noobs would just infest the frontiers for a few free measly RP...who wants to make a server known for fields of greys frolicking around mooching?

If they really were trying to force ppl into BGs, I'm guessing tasks would have started at 40, instead of 4 levels under max BG...

I'm also amazed at general QQ about how unfair it is to die while xp'ing in the frontiers...in a RvR game...that the original guide says what hunting spots will be dangerous to 'invader risk.'

"OMG I died and didn't get any free xp or RP! I can't make any progress on this difficult server!"

Fri 3 May 2019 11:52 PM by Roks
So no exp off. Accelerated exp from pvp kills in bgs but thidranki RR cap is RR3?
Sat 4 May 2019 5:17 AM by Kampfar
Cantarella wrote:
Fri 3 May 2019 10:25 PM
Just wanted to chime in as another BG only player with 7 or so level 24s (not twinked because I don't even have any char higher than 24). I will be leaving if xp/rp off is removed.

If midgard, can I have your stuff?
Sat 4 May 2019 7:24 AM by Muschen
cuuchulain79 wrote:
Fri 3 May 2019 11:14 PM
I'm amazed at all of the QQ about sub 35s not getting free task RP...

I'm guessing it was changed b/c staff never thought noobs would just infest the frontiers for a few free measly RP...who wants to make a server known for fields of greys frolicking around mooching?

If they really were trying to force ppl into BGs, I'm guessing tasks would have started at 40, instead of 4 levels under max BG...

I'm also amazed at general QQ about how unfair it is to die while xp'ing in the frontiers...in a RvR game...that the original guide says what hunting spots will be dangerous to 'invader risk.'

"OMG I died and didn't get any free xp or RP! I can't make any progress on this difficult server!"



Thanx for the QQ about people duscussing, great input. Although the greys seem to help quite alot, they seem to contribute to many 8mans losing their fights. Can you point out how many people in this thread thats complaining about dying while xping in the frontier?
Sat 4 May 2019 7:44 AM by Demaischler
xp off would be just perfect, so ppl are forced to leave bgs or lvl up a new bg toon ( that helps also new players and players that want to reach 50 ) while they have lots of time enjoying bgs till they reach rp cap, and thats coming from an bg loving nerd

oh and i already know atleast 2 ppl that started here, and stopped playing when they realised that the bgs are not crowded
Sat 4 May 2019 8:09 AM by Fjort
Is the /xp off in pve off too Uthred? Hope so ?!
Sat 4 May 2019 8:17 AM by gruenesschaf
XP off will remain, RP off will still be gone. Respecs will be available for free on every level regardless of your realm rank until you have 24 hours played on that level, including level 50.

Edited the initial post.
Sat 4 May 2019 8:26 AM by soiehib1337
RvR Tasks:
The realm task now has a level requirement of 35 and the rp / bp / coin reward scales more with your level meaning at level 35 you will get a greatly reduced amount. We will also increase the tick duration from 15 minutes to 30 minutes, the rp / bp / coin reward per tick will accordingly be doubled to keep the amount the same.

Great. While you're at it please cap Tasks reward at 5L0. You don't need welfare RPs after this.
Sat 4 May 2019 8:33 AM by Muschen
gruenesschaf wrote:
Sat 4 May 2019 8:17 AM
XP off will remain, RP off will still be gone. Respecs will be available for free on every level regardless of your realm rank until you have 24 hours played on that level, including level 50.

Edited the initial post.

Whats the thought behind rp off? How will that affect the goal of the server which you say is end game rvr?
Sat 4 May 2019 8:41 AM by Stoertebecker
rodsta69 wrote:
Fri 3 May 2019 4:50 PM
Stoertebecker wrote:
Fri 3 May 2019 2:39 PM
Bradekes wrote:
Fri 3 May 2019 10:26 AM
Well the thing is I just enjoy DAoC in general! Sometimes I wanna RvR, sometimes I wanna PvE, sometimes I wanna BG, and other times I just wanna play a different game... Hopefully your right that they decide to keep or make some sort of new /rp off - /xp off...

I just find it extremely odd that they would want to passively force players into their idealized version of the game... To me that's not what MMO are about, even 19y old games...

I know it's a freeshard, I am just a player who cares about the community and will voice my opinion when I feel like somethings wrong.. A lot of people think it's selfish opinions but honestly I have no biased... I've made my own server for DAoC and my own classes and I just love the game.. If I had the time I'd be running my own server.. But Devs always need to keep as many options for players as possible, people get bored or burned out and a refreshing change is always a great thing..

I like PvE content if it is good, variedly and sometimes challenging content, in a nice enviroment. Tbh...DAoC has none of these points, not after playing this game for 18y (with breaks) and several dozen lvl 50 in all 3 realms. There is only 1 thing that varies each day, and that is rvr.
I don`t understand ppl running the 30th tg raid, 20th dragon raid or 55th darkspire run. It was boring in 2004, it is boring today.
Not that i want to make some advertising for other games, but i play ESO for PvE and DAoC for RvR. Works perfectly, this way the risk of getting bored is a bit minimized.

You don't have to understand it. If you don't like doing it, don't do it. But saying other people are wrong for enjoying things that you don't enjoy makes no sense whatsoever. You don't get to dictate what is fun for other players.

I don`t care much about how other ppl play. If ppl like to run with the brainless mass and have fun...go on.
And before you quote something you should follow the complete conversation between Bradekes and me, maybe you get the context then.
Sat 4 May 2019 9:00 AM by Dominus
Muschen wrote:
Sat 4 May 2019 8:33 AM
Whats the thought behind rp off? How will that affect the goal of the server which you say is end game rvr?

uh, get people out of bgs and into rvr?
Sat 4 May 2019 9:04 AM by Muschen
Dominus wrote:
Sat 4 May 2019 9:00 AM
Muschen wrote:
Sat 4 May 2019 8:33 AM
Whats the thought behind rp off? How will that affect the goal of the server which you say is end game rvr?

uh, get people out of bgs and into rvr?

But how? What will drive them to endgame rvr?
Cant we just close the BGs then?
Sat 4 May 2019 12:38 PM by Freedomcall
Muschen wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 3:46 PM
Freedomcall wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 12:14 PM
Eidorf wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 11:32 AM
I am a proud member of a guild that plays Thidranki almost exclusively (or did until it became a wasteland). I believe the argument for removing xp/rp off so folks go on to play 50 RvR is somewhat invalid as players that really enjoy BG's (Thidranki mostly) don't tend to migrate over to 50 RvR anyway. None of my guild did, they either stopped playing or just became very casual. I am confident that if the staff revitalised the BG's my guild will come back.

My suggestion would be to leave XP/RP off in the game so people can play how they want. If you want people to play 50 RvR more then make it more accessible to the casual player, currently it really isn't.

Bolg - Thidranki Blitz

I'm afraid to say that this comment shows why boosting BG is dangerous for the server.
BG becoming the 'ultimate goal' for playing phoenix means population of the server being literally divided.
Phoenix is not the server with like 10k players, and the population on late NA/Asian time has already decreased under 1k.
I remember uthgard last year when there were 20ish hib players in Caledonia(lvl42-47) when Dun Dagda was being attacked.
Battle Group leader was spamming for relic defense, but i saw most of the players in Caledonia just enjoying fights in their league.

I'm not saying that dedicated BG players are doing a bad thing. All those players have a right to enjoy this game in their own way.
BUT allowing something and boosting something is different.
Devs should always consider how new updates will impact the whole server, and think about what is good for a 'healthy server'.
Boosting BGs could result in creating some isolated leagues and you know that isn't contributing for the server.

No, it does not show that, it shows that Phoenix attracts a group of people that would not play here otherwise. And these people adds to the overall population which is good for a healthy server. Some of them move on to 50 which is even better.

I have seen 20-100 people take the relic more than 10 times while BG leaders spam region and advice for help. The rest of the realm is busy farming feathers or zerging in emain. And this is while the BGs were empty.

Could you explain to me which playstyles contribute to the server and which playstyles are not?

Well, they didn't move on to 50. they just quit when BG was dead.
Overall population is meaningful when they are somewhat related to end game rvr.
Playing BG and then encouraged to grind up to 50? Nice thing for the server.
Farm feathers so that he can template his char for rvr? Good for the server.
Even if someone plays pve only, it is still related to end game rvr cuz he can be one of your grp member when xping or farming)
But being 'exlusive BG player' is just being isolated.
Maybe he can be your enemy, but i don't think losing to a templated, pot buffed and rvr-type specced opponent will help a casual player much.
And if ppl who initially aimed to move on to 50 but changed their mind to stay at BGs prevails, things will be worse.
Sat 4 May 2019 12:40 PM by Cruella
Uthred wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 5:26 PM
CHANGED: Respec & Rp/XP off:
XP off will remain, RP off will still be removed. Respecs will be available for free on every level regardless of your realm rank until you have 24 hours played on that level, including level 50.



Tnx for listening !
Sat 4 May 2019 12:42 PM by Uthred
These changes are live now.

Read also the latest Patch Notes --> https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=40&p=60532#p60532
Sat 4 May 2019 1:11 PM by Tarues
BOO!
Sat 4 May 2019 2:08 PM by Muschen
Freedomcall wrote:
Sat 4 May 2019 12:38 PM
Muschen wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 3:46 PM
Freedomcall wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 12:14 PM
I'm afraid to say that this comment shows why boosting BG is dangerous for the server.
BG becoming the 'ultimate goal' for playing phoenix means population of the server being literally divided.
Phoenix is not the server with like 10k players, and the population on late NA/Asian time has already decreased under 1k.
I remember uthgard last year when there were 20ish hib players in Caledonia(lvl42-47) when Dun Dagda was being attacked.
Battle Group leader was spamming for relic defense, but i saw most of the players in Caledonia just enjoying fights in their league.

I'm not saying that dedicated BG players are doing a bad thing. All those players have a right to enjoy this game in their own way.
BUT allowing something and boosting something is different.
Devs should always consider how new updates will impact the whole server, and think about what is good for a 'healthy server'.
Boosting BGs could result in creating some isolated leagues and you know that isn't contributing for the server.

No, it does not show that, it shows that Phoenix attracts a group of people that would not play here otherwise. And these people adds to the overall population which is good for a healthy server. Some of them move on to 50 which is even better.

I have seen 20-100 people take the relic more than 10 times while BG leaders spam region and advice for help. The rest of the realm is busy farming feathers or zerging in emain. And this is while the BGs were empty.

Could you explain to me which playstyles contribute to the server and which playstyles are not?

Well, they didn't move on to 50. they just quit when BG was dead.
Overall population is meaningful when they are somewhat related to end game rvr.
Playing BG and then encouraged to grind up to 50? Nice thing for the server.
Farm feathers so that he can template his char for rvr? Good for the server.
Even if someone plays pve only, it is still related to end game rvr cuz he can be one of your grp member when xping or farming)
But being 'exlusive BG player' is just being isolated.
Maybe he can be your enemy, but i don't think losing to a templated, pot buffed and rvr-type specced opponent will help a casual player much.
And if ppl who initially aimed to move on to 50 but changed their mind to stay at BGs prevails, things will be worse.

Okay, i guess we have different opinions about this, i would rather have some people playing BGs than quitting. These players are the reason others went to the BGs on the way to 50 to get some rps before tasks, otherwise it would have been empty.

I played Thid with rogs and did fine against twinks, the difference isnt that much like in end game rvr.

I went to 50 with two characters, got some ghetto tenplate but decided that i will not play with these hardcore twinks because i stand no chance, so i quit. Now i was thinking about playing some BG to get my motivation back but i guess i had bad timing.

And no, you cant have my stuff because i need it to pay for BG plvl once i cap out
Sat 4 May 2019 2:17 PM by Salusa
Well the devs have done it and you have to ask WHY? What is the point of restricting RvR tasks to 35 and above? There is no magic in 35 other than you appear yellow at first to a 50. 35+ to even 50 RR2, have no better chance of survival against a RR7 than does a 25. You might as well say only RR5+ can possibly gain from Realm tasks as they do all the work. You are forgetting fun for ALL. I have yet to see a cogent reason for this appalling gaff.

Revitalise the BGs I hear some cry, fine by all means make them more attractive, but don't coerce people to do it, forcing people to do things in games rarely works well. The thing people who say run just one toon forget, is that many people run many alts and one of the glories of Phoenix was you could try all sorts of stuff in real RvR which along with infinite respecs has lead to much more diversity of types, not as many as we'd all like but better than sticking to cookie cutters and only single class specs. Having the freedom to play on the frontiers in any form and still be rewarded was a great boon.

Some may say well "they haven't put the hours in" or it will "make them group", as if these were ever criteria for having a good time, it is after all a game to entertain. Time is commodity not everybody has and being able to tag along with the zerg, or be part of a keep take is all some want, they know they will never attain the halcyon heights of RR10, but hey they can still score a point on a door or take a HP off a RR5. If you want people to group what is the point of Phoenix eggs? On the one hand soloing is encouraged PvE, but suddenly is bad when you hit the Frontier less than 35! By making it harder to get RPs (and these I think are the real issue) you are enforcing the group ethos of only taking temp'd cookie cutter types which leaves many without groups and again drives them away.

Let's face it, the ability of lvl 10,20 30 etc to gain RPs and XP does not REALLY effect high RRs at all, so why would you stop them unless there have been a bunch of leetist whines. We all know that there is a tipping point in any game which usually kills it, and that is when the top 10% pull so far ahead of the pack, that the pack decide it is no longer worth trying to catch up and when they leave you lose 90% not 10%. Pandering to the leets never works, they burn through content and always expect more and to be made more leet than other leets which leads to disillusionment in the majority. Take Darkspire, after the first week it may get mentioned once a day and those that did it want something else, the pack aspire to be able to get there and run it, the leets are long gone.

Realm pride, it maybe a dirty word to the leets who tend to think only of themselves, but being able to participate engenders that sense of being part of something, it spurs you on when grind is pulling you down. Involving people is everything, excluding under some sort of half arsed apartheid will not engender the right spirit. We need keen people on all realms being active and involved whatever level or class, because the more active everybody is the more fun the game is overall.

For the avoidance of doubt I think the Devs are brilliant and this is the best server since just before SI came out on live, but I just disagree with this move and think it will be detrimental to what has been a wonderful experience thus far.
Sat 4 May 2019 2:28 PM by Vkejai
It is obviously what the 8v8 crowd have been asking for . Personally I couldn't care less , but I think there will be a lot less bodies scattered around the frontier task zones now. It will definitely revitalize the 1-20 levelling I think , but also taking away a lot of fun for others.
Sat 4 May 2019 4:44 PM by Roks
What should have been done is to allow grays to be worth RPs.

So I am looking at 2100 players online and 4 ppl in thid, 0 in caledonia and 5 ppl in cathal for hib at the moment.
How did this help out the bgs?
Im pretty sure the name of the game is get to 50.

The realm task rp/xp was great for casual and solo players. Run out get credit, run back xp for 15-30m and repeat.
Sat 4 May 2019 9:10 PM by Cadebrennus
Roks wrote:
Sat 4 May 2019 4:44 PM
What should have been done is to allow grays to be worth RPs.

So I am looking at 2100 players online and 4 ppl in thid, 0 in caledonia and 5 ppl in cathal for hib at the moment.
How did this help out the bgs?
Im pretty sure the name of the game is get to 50.

The realm task rp/xp was great for casual and solo players. Run out get credit, run back xp for 15-30m and repeat.

Some (probably many) would rather PvP their way to 50 instead of PvE grind their way to 50
Sat 4 May 2019 9:55 PM by Jatar
Vkejai wrote:
Sat 4 May 2019 2:28 PM
It is obviously what the 8v8 crowd have been asking for . Personally I couldn't care less , but I think there will be a lot less bodies scattered around the frontier task zones now. It will definitely revitalize the 1-20 levelling I think , but also taking away a lot of fun for others.

I concur. At least now I'll have no need for multiple character pages! Create char, lvl to 24, /xp off, max out RP, delete char, rinse and repeat! Fun stuff!
Sun 5 May 2019 1:27 AM by Jimmy0000
Cruella wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 5:44 PM
Kappu wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 5:38 PM
Cruella wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 5:29 PM
First you give us a candy with one hand and slap us after with the other one. RP/XP OFF is the foundation of BG toons. Why remove it

Didn't you read what he said? They want to push you to end game RvR not keep you in the battleground. He even stated that's what keeps the server healthy is end game RvR.

There are people that acutaly like bgs more than big boy rvr. same stupid discussions like on live server. let everyone play the way they want... enforcing ... what a joke.
When there are ppl that just logg in for the bgs ..let em... whats better? loosing a player? because he doesnt want to get lvl50? that guy wouldnt play here in the first place then. So youre loosing nothing..

You take em /xp off? ok they start suiciding again to not levelup again.... they rr up? ok they delete and recreate. So that "law" does nothing execept "punish". For nothing.
Or do you really think that player would say "ok i cant do my favorite thing...bg... i lvl to 50 and rvr"... you must be really naive... its just another player lost.

I dont' know why private server admins keep repeating the same mistakes over and over agian. Did the staff here not play Uthgard 1.0 any? It was around for over 10 years. One thing they did before the server shut down, is take away /rp off and /xp off. It pissed off lots of people.... and they left. There's a reason why throughout most of DAOC's life, the BGs were more popular than 50 rvr, and given how over-customized this server is in terms of combat mechanics, it's surprising the BGs aren't more popular here. Perhaps BGs weren't as popular on the Euro servers, i'm not sure. but on all the NA servers, there was more people in all the BGs combined than in 50 rvr, throughout 2004-2015 from what i saw whenever i typed /who X
Sun 5 May 2019 10:11 AM by Kampfar
Xp/rp-off was there. How many ppl were in the battlegrounds? Now u can get more rps there and cry that u might level out
Sun 5 May 2019 12:02 PM by jg777
I’ve been busy with life and unable to have time to play for awhile now but I’m happy to read this update. I don’t think /xp off function is necessary to remove because there are ways as stated to artificially keep a character at a level. It only serves to frustrate players, and those unwilling to go to 50 and participate in the Frontier RvR will continue to cycle through the Battlegrounds on new characters as needed. It won’t serve its intended purpose. Additionally, having more players on the server participating in some way is better than fewer participating in a desired way.

Thank you for the continued work on the server Phoenix staff! I hope to get back on in the near future when my schedule permits. Happy gaming all!
Sun 5 May 2019 3:27 PM by Numatic
I'm just glad the greys arent out there. I cant tell you how many fights I lost because some stupid lowbie came up and broke my mezz/root just so he can get a hit/die for his free RPs. The aoe DDs from them was even worse. Breaking mezz/root for 5-8 people for 25dmg. Even though I'm sure there will be 35+ out there doing it, at least that number will be much lower now. It was a dumb mechanic and shouldn't have been a thing in the first place.
Sun 5 May 2019 11:49 PM by Roks
Cadebrennus wrote:
Sat 4 May 2019 9:10 PM
Roks wrote:
Sat 4 May 2019 4:44 PM
What should have been done is to allow grays to be worth RPs.

So I am looking at 2100 players online and 4 ppl in thid, 0 in caledonia and 5 ppl in cathal for hib at the moment.
How did this help out the bgs?
Im pretty sure the name of the game is get to 50.

The realm task rp/xp was great for casual and solo players. Run out get credit, run back xp for 15-30m and repeat.

Some (probably many) would rather PvP their way to 50 instead of PvE grind their way to 50

/Who bgs say otherwise atm


Plus whats up with the task bonus 45+? Not getting credit.
Mon 6 May 2019 10:41 AM by Cadebrennus
Roks wrote:
Sun 5 May 2019 11:49 PM
Cadebrennus wrote:
Sat 4 May 2019 9:10 PM
Roks wrote:
Sat 4 May 2019 4:44 PM
What should have been done is to allow grays to be worth RPs.

So I am looking at 2100 players online and 4 ppl in thid, 0 in caledonia and 5 ppl in cathal for hib at the moment.
How did this help out the bgs?
Im pretty sure the name of the game is get to 50.

The realm task rp/xp was great for casual and solo players. Run out get credit, run back xp for 15-30m and repeat.

Some (probably many) would rather PvP their way to 50 instead of PvE grind their way to 50

/Who bgs say otherwise atm


Plus whats up with the task bonus 45+? Not getting credit.

Assuming this post is in the last few hours, you should also look at the time zones. Right now it's 0340 PST for the U.S. and it's 1240 CET here in Europe on a Monday. Hardly the best hours to play unless you're a night owl (U.S.) or don't have a job or school (Europe.)
Mon 6 May 2019 3:40 PM by Roks
Cadebrennus wrote:
Mon 6 May 2019 10:41 AM
Roks wrote:
Sun 5 May 2019 11:49 PM
Cadebrennus wrote:
Sat 4 May 2019 9:10 PM
Some (probably many) would rather PvP their way to 50 instead of PvE grind their way to 50

/Who bgs say otherwise atm


Plus whats up with the task bonus 45+? Not getting credit.

Assuming this post is in the last few hours, you should also look at the time zones. Right now it's 0340 PST for the U.S. and it's 1240 CET here in Europe on a Monday. Hardly the best hours to play unless you're a night owl (U.S.) or don't have a job or school (Europe.)

Maybe you should look at the time stamps? US should be busy when I wrote the post because it was during the day it was midday CST on a Saturday. It should have been roughly 9pm CET, if my guessing on the time difference is correct by your previous statement.
Mon 6 May 2019 4:12 PM by Cadebrennus
Roks wrote:
Mon 6 May 2019 3:40 PM
Cadebrennus wrote:
Mon 6 May 2019 10:41 AM
Roks wrote:
Sun 5 May 2019 11:49 PM
/Who bgs say otherwise atm


Plus whats up with the task bonus 45+? Not getting credit.

Assuming this post is in the last few hours, you should also look at the time zones. Right now it's 0340 PST for the U.S. and it's 1240 CET here in Europe on a Monday. Hardly the best hours to play unless you're a night owl (U.S.) or don't have a job or school (Europe.)

Maybe you should look at the time stamps? US should be busy when I wrote the post because it was during the day it was midday CST on a Saturday. It should have been roughly 9pm CET, if my guessing on the time difference is correct by your previous statement.

I couldn't tell from the time stamps because I'm not 100% sure which time zone they're in. Hence the word "assuming". I hate to get pedantic but I rarely write anything by accident.
Mon 6 May 2019 4:25 PM by PingGuy
The server is typically the busiest around 3:00pm EST due to a combination of NA and EU players. That would be the best time to check, and Thidranki is probably the best place to check first.
Tue 7 May 2019 4:53 PM by Roks
Cadebrennus wrote:
Mon 6 May 2019 4:12 PM
Roks wrote:
Mon 6 May 2019 3:40 PM
Cadebrennus wrote:
Mon 6 May 2019 10:41 AM
Assuming this post is in the last few hours, you should also look at the time zones. Right now it's 0340 PST for the U.S. and it's 1240 CET here in Europe on a Monday. Hardly the best hours to play unless you're a night owl (U.S.) or don't have a job or school (Europe.)

Maybe you should look at the time stamps? US should be busy when I wrote the post because it was during the day it was midday CST on a Saturday. It should have been roughly 9pm CET, if my guessing on the time difference is correct by your previous statement.

I couldn't tell from the time stamps because I'm not 100% sure which time zone they're in. Hence the word "assuming". I hate to get pedantic but I rarely write anything by accident.

Ok. True. But another factor we probably both not taking into account is what realm we are on as well. Alb probably has a good amount of population in the bgs and would show otherwise. While Hib for example would not be like Alb.

But, what I want to see is this server population stay consistent or grow. An easy way to RP up and gain levels while solo as a stealther or tank so you will be relevant at 50, or even a few easy RPs so you can better benefit an exp grp as a support class? It would be hard to do so if your realm is dead compared to the others and leveling and gaining rps thru the BGs required some sorta of population, specially when the kill task turn-in is in the CKs.

But lets just leave that like that. No more back and forth. GL out there.
Thu 9 May 2019 2:10 AM by hellcon
Too bad about the low level RP gains though. Numbers are closer to what it was in SI for low levels, which is fair, I guess...

Leveling a new character now, it has lost a lot of its luster when I can't trivially be 1L6 by level 15. Spent a little time in Thidranki today, didn't even get to 1L3. The lack of the the extra 9-13% crit or MCL or FA is really noticeable when out grinding.
The rate of gains and population numbers (and 70% stealther population; lol) in those zones means it isn't worth the time to get past 1L3 until you can RvR task.
Thu 9 May 2019 9:44 AM by Cadebrennus
hellcon wrote:
Thu 9 May 2019 2:10 AM
Too bad about the low level RP gains though. Numbers are closer to what it was in SI for low levels, which is fair, I guess...

Leveling a new character now, it has lost a lot of its luster when I can't trivially be 1L6 by level 15. Spent a little time in Thidranki today, didn't even get to 1L3. The lack of the the extra 9-13% crit or MCL or FA is really noticeable when out grinding.
The rate of gains and population numbers (and 70% stealther population; lol) in those zones means it isn't worth the time to get past 1L3 until you can RvR task.

It's a lot of fun fighting people in Thidranki but yeah, the slow RP gain is pretty stupid.
Thu 9 May 2019 12:35 PM by Sepplord
the people having BG twinks probably enjoy not RRing too fast out of the allowed range though...and those are the people this patch was made for
Thu 9 May 2019 9:01 PM by Dindelion
Sepplord wrote:
Thu 9 May 2019 12:35 PM
the people having BG twinks probably enjoy not RRing too fast out of the allowed range though...and those are the people this patch was made for

well not all of them. I for one made a stop at thid with a temp and all, which is really easy, so I'm one of those "BG twinks" but the slow RP gain is actually annoying, I had the idea to cap the RR3 while having fun there then move on, as everyone repeats here "RvR is the goal of the server". I still don't understand why shouldn't we have the choice or not to stay here (with /rp off) so everyone wins and does what he wants, instead of this slow grindy rp gain, which eventually doesn't satisfy anyone.

if it stays like that I'll probably not wait to reach RR3
Thu 9 May 2019 9:43 PM by Boric
Imagine how fun it will be when there are 2-3 stealthers per realm in Thid that are RR3 and 'invincible' compared to even a Thid Twink with their 30 Realm Points and still be able to stay in for a long time due to slow RR climb at low levels and high RR needed to move from RR3 - RR3L1
Sat 11 May 2019 12:23 PM by Painn
It's been fun seeing people out in thid lately.

If only the glaring population inbalance could be addressed. 5 poor hibbies against 3fg of albs and 2fg of mids yesterday was a bit much to handle.
Tue 14 May 2019 1:10 PM by Lillebror
61K cap on Thid where you get 20-30rps pr kill. You stay forever!
I managed to get rr2 in one weekend while soloing and if you stay to cap out you most likly are close to lone enforcer.
Thid is not a quick way to get leveling ra's but its a damn fast 20-25
Tue 14 May 2019 11:04 PM by Isavyr
Uthred wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 5:26 PM
BGs are very low populated at the moment for different reasons. Under 50 RvR looks like either suiciding or afk sticking a keep take zerg. Thats why we would like to offer some more options to have some RvR experiences before Level 50, but on the other hand the main goal of this server is still to get as many people into endgame RvR, as we think it is needed for a healthy server. Battlegrounds should be some kind of a training ground, but we dont want people to only play there and never go out to the frontiers.

Is it technically possible to have fewer BGs, with players effectively given highest level resistances/miss-rate for the sake of the BG? The problem with having so many BGs is that it splits the population among an already unpopular zone.

So for example, when a player that's level 14 joins the newly created level 10-25 BG, they would get resist/miss/hit rates of a level 25, but their spells, health, and so forth remain the same as a level 14. This would still create large bonuses for being higher level, but at the same time, make lower levels more competitive. Would possibly need further tweaking, and it's probably a lot of work, but I feel like it'll resolve some downsides of currently having more BGs.
Wed 5 Jun 2019 6:44 PM by Alandro
Hello all,

To this topic it would be great to have the RVR Task available in the BGs with a Tick of every 15mins. IT would also bring more Players to the BGS
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