friar and reflex attack - Phoenix Freeshard

Im sry to say that but i think friars really need a nerf in their ability reflex attack.
as you see in the video below i attacked a rr7 friar as a rr7 sb.

https://youtu.be/hm7A8fktorw

So far so good but when you see this video, i backstabbed him and did 2 other styles wheres he was stunned. When the stun ended you see that I lost nearly the same amount on life wheres he just stood there stunned and did nothing. Dont you think you should push there a little screw?

My suggestion: Keep it like it is but refelx attack shouldnt work during stun

grz Warleay

Wed 1 May 2019 1:52 PM by kratoxin

strikes you 4 times with wep / dead not to mention they get heals and what not lol

but yea i agree dropping you down 30% in a stun is pretty insane...

Wed 1 May 2019 1:54 PM by Druth

Don't attack friars with dual wield.

Wed 1 May 2019 1:58 PM by Yokahu

Guys, we are almost there!! Let’s push it home and make SB king of the hill !!!

Wed 1 May 2019 2:07 PM by Druth

Yokahu wrote: ↑
Wed 1 May 2019 1:58 PM
Guys, we are almost there!! Let’s push it home and make SB king of the hill !!!

I'm sure there's 1-2 more abilities that needs nerf before SB's can finally reign supreme, as prophesied in the ancient texts.

Wed 1 May 2019 2:08 PM by Warlay

Yokahu wrote: ↑
Wed 1 May 2019 1:58 PM
Guys, we are almost there!! Let’s push it home and make SB king of the hill !!!

this is not what im asking. for me its not okay that someone strike me with no effort whereas he is stunned and for the same amount dmg i did to him in 3 styles.
stupid sentences like dont attack a friar with dual wield we dont need that here

Wed 1 May 2019 2:11 PM by kratoxin

imagine the 2hand perf reflex.... ouch

Wed 1 May 2019 2:12 PM by Druth

Warlay wrote: ↑
Wed 1 May 2019 2:08 PM
this is not what im asking. for me its not okay that someone strike me with no effort whereas he is stunned and for the same amount dmg i did to him in 3 styles.
stupid sentences like dont attack a friar with dual wield we dont need that here

Stop wanting to nerf a class that hardly shows up in top 50 weekly rps, when playing a class that dominates solo scene, and is over represented in top 50.

Friars are not OP, they are just very strong vs. your specific class-type. So don't attack them, not all targets are supposed to be killable for SB's.

Wed 1 May 2019 2:13 PM by Druth

kratoxin wrote: ↑
Wed 1 May 2019 2:11 PM
imagine the 2hand perf reflex.... ouch

Would be exactly same damage as LA PA, thus using 2H is preferable vs. friars.

Wed 1 May 2019 2:38 PM by vxr

kratoxin wrote: ↑
Wed 1 May 2019 1:52 PM
strikes you 4 times with wep / dead not to mention they get heals and what not lol

but yea i agree dropping you down 30% in a stun is pretty insane...

SB is at 88% when stun drops, not 30%

IDK what people want. Friars > stealthers. Friars get shit on by casters. . It is the circle of life. I do think it's a little bit silly for RA to work while stun. That's the only change that is needed, if there needs to be a change.

Wed 1 May 2019 2:46 PM by kratoxin

vxr wrote: ↑
Wed 1 May 2019 2:38 PM
kratoxin wrote: ↑
Wed 1 May 2019 1:52 PM
strikes you 4 times with wep / dead not to mention they get heals and what not lol

but yea i agree dropping you down 30% in a stun is pretty insane...

SB is at 88% when stun drops, not 30%

IDK what people want. Friars > stealthers. Friars get shit on by casters. . It is the circle of life. I do think it's a little bit silly for RA to work while stun. That's the only change that is needed, if there needs to be a change.

88.553 to be exact

LOL

Wed 1 May 2019 2:49 PM by Roto23

this isn't a friar thing, its a Reflex attack thing. RA should be on a 10 minute timer and only last 30 seconds.

Wed 1 May 2019 2:53 PM by Warlay

Roto23 wrote: ↑
Wed 1 May 2019 2:49 PM
this isn't a friar thing, its a Reflex attack thing. RA should be on a 10 minute timer and only last 30 seconds.

excatly

but maybe in the beginning that it doesnt work during stun, sound anyway like a bug^^

Wed 1 May 2019 3:16 PM by Blitze

Reflex attack costs a lot of RPs, is a negative in certain situations (8v8), useless in many (vs casters), average in a few (Vs 2hnders) and very good against DWers.

Wed 1 May 2019 3:33 PM by Mavella

All the friars that solo troll between amg and apk in emain pretending to be casters trying to get fights would likely be more successful if it wasn't for this RA. Friars have always been strong 1v1 and this RA is just stupidly over the top. It only takes dying to a friar once or twice before its obvious how broken this ability is and stealthers learn to not bother and either ignore them completely or gangbang them with others. I personally don't even won't waste my time unless they are r4 or less and even then I can get RNGed to death for 225-450 dmg a swing. It's not stealthers faults they aren't wanted in groups but they can certainly choose to ignore them relegating them to be professional fight adders. I'd rather fight literally any other class than this one because of how stupid this RA is combined with their kit.

Wed 1 May 2019 4:12 PM by Blitze

As a friar i can fully relate to the idea that It sucks fighting classes that require a lot of luck to kill, however, that list is pretty big on a friar.

Wed 1 May 2019 4:21 PM by Cruella

all these little things would balance out if we would get rid off buffpots and charges in general

. then you can delete reflex attack because the friar selfbuffs have a real impact then again.

Wed 1 May 2019 4:30 PM by Druth

Mavella wrote: ↑
Wed 1 May 2019 3:33 PM
All the friars that solo troll between amg and apk in emain pretending to be casters trying to get fights would likely be more successful if it wasn't for this RA. Friars have always been strong 1v1 and this RA is just stupidly over the top. It only takes dying to a friar once or twice before its obvious how broken this ability is and stealthers learn to not bother and either ignore them completely or gangbang them with others. I personally don't even won't waste my time unless they are r4 or less and even then I can get RNGed to death for 225-450 dmg a swing. It's not stealthers faults they aren't wanted in groups but they can certainly choose to ignore them relegating them to be professional fight adders. I'd rather fight literally any other class than this one because of how stupid this RA is combined with their kit.

Then don't attack them... have a caster deal with them.
I don't run out on my RM expecting to kill assassins sighted down the road. I expect the assassins to melt my face, as they should and I would never ever complain that they can do that.

You are bringing your Ferrari to a dirt race, somehow wanting the other cars to be nerfed.

Wed 1 May 2019 4:50 PM by BisbyHoughton

Wow you lost a fight to one of only 4 friars who have even hit RR7 on the entire server clearly there is a game-breaking meta afoot here lol

Wed 1 May 2019 5:19 PM by Mavella

Druth wrote: ↑
Wed 1 May 2019 4:30 PM
Mavella wrote: ↑
Wed 1 May 2019 3:33 PM
All the friars that solo troll between amg and apk in emain pretending to be casters trying to get fights would likely be more successful if it wasn't for this RA. Friars have always been strong 1v1 and this RA is just stupidly over the top. It only takes dying to a friar once or twice before its obvious how broken this ability is and stealthers learn to not bother and either ignore them completely or gangbang them with others. I personally don't even won't waste my time unless they are r4 or less and even then I can get RNGed to death for 225-450 dmg a swing. It's not stealthers faults they aren't wanted in groups but they can certainly choose to ignore them relegating them to be professional fight adders. I'd rather fight literally any other class than this one because of how stupid this RA is combined with their kit.

Then don't attack them... have a caster deal with them.
I don't run out on my RM expecting to kill assassins sighted down the road. I expect the assassins to melt my face, as they should and I would never ever complain that they can do that.

You are bringing your Ferrari to a dirt race, somehow wanting the other cars to be nerfed.

Thanks for the input but I already don't. Friars complain about not getting groups and 90% of the solo population won't attack them because of this RA exclusively. If they want to abuse a clearly broken RA they can continue to run around and be addbots. I have zero issue losing close fights or getting outplayed. I am not interested in picking fights with classes that that can literally AFK kill me with with RNG.

Wed 1 May 2019 5:20 PM by Roto23

I really don't think RefAtk should be in the game. It takes zero skill. You don't even have to press a button to activate it. At least Dirty Tricks or IP requires you to press 1 button. And to the guy that said RefAtk is useless in many situations, well many R.A.'s are. On my healer, MOC is useless when I mezzed or stunned and MOC is on a 10 minute timer and only lasts 30 seconds.

I hate I win buttons, pfft RefAtk doesn't even require a button, so I guess it's even more OP then any "I win" button.

Wed 1 May 2019 5:24 PM by Bumbles

Oh look another thread from a SB complaining that they can't kill every other class in the game. /yawn

Wed 1 May 2019 5:33 PM by chryso

Mavella wrote: ↑
Wed 1 May 2019 5:19 PM
I am not interested in picking fights with classes that that can literally AFK kill me with with RNG.

Then stop attacking them.

Wed 1 May 2019 5:39 PM by Druth

chryso wrote: ↑
Wed 1 May 2019 5:33 PM
Mavella wrote: ↑
Wed 1 May 2019 5:19 PM
I am not interested in picking fights with classes that that can literally AFK kill me with with RNG.

Then stop attacking them.

You missed the point, he wants to help friars by removing Reflex Attack so they get more fights again, because friars were pretty good vs. assassins before and got many fights, but now people avoid them and without speed/CC/SL friars don't get to pick fights.

Wed 1 May 2019 5:43 PM by Mavella

chryso wrote: ↑
Wed 1 May 2019 5:33 PM
Mavella wrote: ↑
Wed 1 May 2019 5:19 PM
I am not interested in picking fights with classes that that can literally AFK kill me with with RNG.

Then stop attacking them.

Can you not read?

I said I don't and they can continue to languish at the bottom of the RP ladder because they don't get groups and 90% of the solo population with a brain is going to ignore them completely exclusively because of this RA. It's just as dumb on berserkers but they actually need to spec for group play so most of them don't run it or bother to even solo.

Wed 1 May 2019 5:48 PM by relvinian

This is why you take vanish.

You kill 900 casters, then once you look like you might die, so you use vanish.

But seriously, should not work while stunned. That part is right.

Wed 1 May 2019 6:11 PM by Cruella

relvinian wrote: ↑
Wed 1 May 2019 5:48 PM
This is why you take vanish.

You kill 900 casters, then once you look like you might die, so you use vanish.

But seriously, should not work while stunned. That part is right.

can you use vanish when stunned? just a question

Wed 1 May 2019 6:13 PM by Yokahu

Mavella wrote: ↑
Wed 1 May 2019 5:43 PM
chryso wrote: ↑
Wed 1 May 2019 5:33 PM
Mavella wrote: ↑
Wed 1 May 2019 5:19 PM
I am not interested in picking fights with classes that that can literally AFK kill me with with RNG.

Then stop attacking them.

Can you not read?

I said I don't and they can continue to languish at the bottom of the RP ladder because they don't get groups and 90% of the solo population with a brain is going to ignore them completely exclusively because of this RA. It's just as dumb on berserkers but they actually need to spec for group play so most of them don't run it or bother to even solo.

So, per your logic, if reflex attack gets nerf, the class will be useless since they can’t get groups anyway and the nerf would be taking away the only thing that makes friars attractive over other solo classes.

IMO if reflex attacks gets nerf, they need to give friars Dodger at least.

Wed 1 May 2019 6:20 PM by Warlay

Cruella wrote: ↑
Wed 1 May 2019 6:11 PM
relvinian wrote: ↑
Wed 1 May 2019 5:48 PM
This is why you take vanish.

You kill 900 casters, then once you look like you might die, so you use vanish.

But seriously, should not work while stunned. That part is right.

can you use vanish when stunned? just a question

no

Wed 1 May 2019 6:35 PM by Mavella

Yokahu wrote: ↑
Wed 1 May 2019 6:13 PM
Mavella wrote: ↑
Wed 1 May 2019 5:43 PM
chryso wrote: ↑
Wed 1 May 2019 5:33 PM
Then stop attacking them.

Can you not read?

I said I don't and they can continue to languish at the bottom of the RP ladder because they don't get groups and 90% of the solo population with a brain is going to ignore them completely exclusively because of this RA. It's just as dumb on berserkers but they actually need to spec for group play so most of them don't run it or bother to even solo.

So, per your logic, if reflex attack gets nerf, the class will be useless since they can’t get groups anyway and the nerf would be taking away the only thing that makes friars attractive over other solo classes.

IMO if reflex attacks gets nerf, they need to give friars Dodger at least.

Are 25% evade vs dual wield and the ability to spec parry (I've seen 25%~ parry rates on low RR friars), heal procs, ST, higher damage table and IP not enough tools to be successful? They can now also run through back snare kite and self heal depending on opponent. This class was hardly helpless in the solo/smallman area but they all want to walk around with a permanent 150dps+ damage shield that's obviously broken at this patch level.

Wed 1 May 2019 9:09 PM by Hejjin

Cruella wrote: ↑
Wed 1 May 2019 6:11 PM
relvinian wrote: ↑
Wed 1 May 2019 5:48 PM
This is why you take vanish.

You kill 900 casters, then once you look like you might die, so you use vanish.

But seriously, should not work while stunned. That part is right.

can you use vanish when stunned? just a question

No, but they are successfully able to use it between the stun pulses of Static Tempest. When I was running ST on my Friar (Dhavon) I had quite a few assassins use vanish to get out of the fight and away from the stun.

Thu 2 May 2019 1:26 AM by Loki

These forums are as toxic as the advice channel lmao - you're a SB, you shouldnt complain, you already "dominate" the solo scene (whatever that is lol) , not everything is meant to be killed mimimi etc etc. Dude, just stick to the subject of that mechanic. Doesnt take a genius to understand you shouldnt kill people with attacks while stunned ... Friars were unkillable before as assasins, even more after the swap nerf. Stop bitching so much about SBs and stick to the subject.

Thu 2 May 2019 3:06 AM by Warlay

Loki wrote: ↑
Thu 2 May 2019 1:26 AM
These forums are as toxic as the advice channel lmao - you're a SB, you shouldnt complain, you already "dominate" the solo scene (whatever that is lol) , not everything is meant to be killed mimimi etc etc. Dude, just stick to the subject of that mechanic. Doesnt take a genius to understand you shouldnt kill people with attacks while stunned ... Friars were unkillable before as assasins, even more after the swap nerf. Stop bitching so much about SBs and stick to the subject.

where do you see me toxic? im sry i just find a normal solution. i dont cry that i died in the pvp zone lol, in real its just a bug to get dmg from someone which is stunned. I attacked him on purpose to do this video to show the devs whats up all.
I hope they see it.

What i really want to know, send nowadays the albs a friar with high healproc in the gobospot to farm ? :> didnt they nerf dmgshield on this server?

Thu 2 May 2019 4:30 AM by Loki

Warlay wrote: ↑
Thu 2 May 2019 3:06 AM
Loki wrote: ↑
Thu 2 May 2019 1:26 AM
These forums are as toxic as the advice channel lmao - you're a SB, you shouldnt complain, you already "dominate" the solo scene (whatever that is lol) , not everything is meant to be killed mimimi etc etc. Dude, just stick to the subject of that mechanic. Doesnt take a genius to understand you shouldnt kill people with attacks while stunned ... Friars were unkillable before as assasins, even more after the swap nerf. Stop bitching so much about SBs and stick to the subject.

where do you see me toxic? im sry i just find a normal solution. i dont cry that i died in the pvp zone lol, in real its just a bug to get dmg from someone which is stunned. I attacked him on purpose to do this video to show the devs whats up all.
I hope they see it.

What i really want to know, send nowadays the albs a friar with high healproc in the gobospot to farm ? :> didnt they nerf dmgshield on this server?

I wasnt saying you’re toxic, just noticing the condescending and dishonest replies that followed. People using ad hominems and focusing on the class you play rather than the mechanic. And if anyone thinks SBs “dominate” the “solo scene” ( that doesnt even exist on this server) , you must not be actively playing. And if you aren’t, you shouldnt sit this one out.

Thu 2 May 2019 4:52 AM by Seal

mom ! im on youtube!

Thu 2 May 2019 5:17 AM by Warlay

Loki wrote: ↑
Thu 2 May 2019 4:30 AM
Warlay wrote: ↑
Thu 2 May 2019 3:06 AM
Loki wrote: ↑
Thu 2 May 2019 1:26 AM
These forums are as toxic as the advice channel lmao - you're a SB, you shouldnt complain, you already "dominate" the solo scene (whatever that is lol) , not everything is meant to be killed mimimi etc etc. Dude, just stick to the subject of that mechanic. Doesnt take a genius to understand you shouldnt kill people with attacks while stunned ... Friars were unkillable before as assasins, even more after the swap nerf. Stop bitching so much about SBs and stick to the subject.

where do you see me toxic? im sry i just find a normal solution. i dont cry that i died in the pvp zone lol, in real its just a bug to get dmg from someone which is stunned. I attacked him on purpose to do this video to show the devs whats up all.
I hope they see it.

What i really want to know, send nowadays the albs a friar with high healproc in the gobospot to farm ? :> didnt they nerf dmgshield on this server?
I wasnt saying you’re toxic, just noticing the condescending and dishonest replies that followed. People using ad hominems and focusing on the class you play rather than the mechanic. And if anyone thinks SBs “dominate” the “solo scene” ( that doesnt even exist on this server) , you must not be actively playing. And if you aren’t, you shouldnt sit this one out.

ah oki im sorry then, thought you mean me. was a misunderstanding <3

Thu 2 May 2019 5:17 AM by Warlay

Seal wrote: ↑
Thu 2 May 2019 4:52 AM
mom ! im on youtube!

is that all what you can say to that ?

Thu 2 May 2019 5:52 AM by Seal

Warlay wrote: ↑
Thu 2 May 2019 5:17 AM
Seal wrote: ↑
Thu 2 May 2019 4:52 AM
mom ! im on youtube!

is that all what you can say to that ?

honestly? yeah.... i already wrote in other thread i would happily have this RA totally removed from the game if we had something decent to take groupwise (like aotg / Twf ) but sadly this is the situation so we use (and abuse i guess) what we have.....

- should i say : oh noez! is unfair it work while on stun! (always did......)
- should i consider the logical idea behind that to be unfair ? guess what...... for me is unfair the 4 sec ista lifetap of bd (a class that roam with TWF) - (again, bd always had that lifetap this doesnt change the fact i deal with it)
- should i be more supportive that a stealther class that can pick his own target, group with other stealthers when they want and how they want to increase his possible targets to kill, and use vanish to get out of danger dont see the friar class as a free roaming rp with legs ? sorry i dont, the reason people complain about friars reflex more then anything is mainly for 1 reason :

you play in a server with highest amount of players on your side and you play a stealther that wants to roam in solo/duo stealthers without bother to give a crap which target to pick.....
why the reflex attack threads dont come up for berserk ? (that actually have a WAY better sinergy then friar for that RA, there are like 60 video of nate showing up that)

should i add insult to injury ? sure bud here it is : im not a battlefriar, im a 40 Rejuvenation friar (ask any alb that groupped with me, they will confirm it, and i always been a reju friar not a new respec thing)...

but all those discussion are honestly useless.... open a thread asking for the complete removal of this RA and add a different RA for it and i will sign it up

much love

Thu 2 May 2019 8:58 AM by ggherardi

Seal wrote: ↑
Thu 2 May 2019 5:52 AM
Warlay wrote: ↑
Thu 2 May 2019 5:17 AM
Seal wrote: ↑
Thu 2 May 2019 4:52 AM
mom ! im on youtube!

is that all what you can say to that ?

honestly? yeah.... i already wrote in other thread i would happily have this RA totally removed from the game if we had something decent to take groupwise (like aotg / Twf ) but sadly this is the situation so we use (and abuse i guess) what we have.....

- should i say : oh noez! is unfair it work while on stun! (always did......)
- should i consider the logical idea behind that to be unfair ? guess what...... for me is unfair the 4 sec ista lifetap of bd (a class that roam with TWF) - (again, bd always had that lifetap this doesnt change the fact i deal with it)
- should i be more supportive that a stealther class that can pick his own target, group with other stealthers when they want and how they want to increase his possible targets to kill, and use vanish to get out of danger dont see the friar class as a free roaming rp with legs ? sorry i dont, the reason people complain about friars reflex more then anything is mainly for 1 reason :

you play in a server with highest amount of players on your side and you play a stealther that wants to roam in solo/duo stealthers without bother to give a crap which target to pick.....
why the reflex attack threads dont come up for berserk ? (that actually have a WAY better sinergy then friar for that RA, there are like 60 video of nate showing up that)

should i add insult to injury ? sure bud here it is : im not a battlefriar, im a 40 Rejuvenation friar (ask any alb that groupped with me, they will confirm it, and i always been a reju friar not a new respec thing)...

but all those discussion are honestly useless.... open a thread asking for the complete removal of this RA and add a different RA for it and i will sign it up

much love

All the things he said.
I'm a 34 34 45 friar, and since I've been asked to reroll another character to better fill guild spots, I'm playing my friar a lot less now. I would like a lot to use my friar as main and have a spot in my guild group with it, but as things stand now it's very hard to do that. So I started soloing with it when my guild is not up or they are doing something else. All casters shit on me, cause I can't really do anything against them. Tanks are a fair fight, and it depends on what RAs are on CD on either of us. Assassins are my food, like it has always been. Actually less, since assassins get very strong buff and healing potions/tools on this server.
When I see a mage, like an enchanter or a bonedancer, I just hope he doesn't see me, since I have no ways of dealing with him/her. But 9 on 10 times I can't avoid the fight and my death.
When an assassin sees me, they can just choose if either attack me or not. And even if they do and they are dying, they just vanish out of the sight and disappear forever (it happened to me 7 times yesterday).

But yeah, let's remove Reflex Attack so I can continue not being grouped and be another target on assassins list again.

Just a little reminder.

Thu 2 May 2019 9:40 AM by Kadorna

Seal wrote: ↑
Thu 2 May 2019 5:52 AM
the reason people complain about friars reflex more then anything is mainly for 1 reason :
you play in a server with highest amount of players on your side and you play a stealther that wants to roam in solo/duo stealthers without bother to give a crap which target to pick.....
why the reflex attack threads dont come up for berserk ? (that actually have a WAY better sinergy then friar for that RA, there are like 60 video of nate showing up that)

THIS!!!! Why only SB´s complain about RA on friars ?? why is not a problem on berserkers??

Thu 2 May 2019 10:42 AM by Sepplord

Kadorna wrote: ↑
Thu 2 May 2019 9:40 AM
Seal wrote: ↑
Thu 2 May 2019 5:52 AM
the reason people complain about friars reflex more then anything is mainly for 1 reason :
you play in a server with highest amount of players on your side and you play a stealther that wants to roam in solo/duo stealthers without bother to give a crap which target to pick.....
why the reflex attack threads dont come up for berserk ? (that actually have a WAY better sinergy then friar for that RA, there are like 60 video of nate showing up that)

THIS!!!! Why only SB´s complain about RA on friars ?? why is not a problem on berserkers??

IF true (which isn't the case, several non-SBs here mentioning reasonable concerns) there would be several explanantions besides the "SBs just like to whine about anything"-story you are implying.

When i am on my SB though *wink*, RA doesn't really impact me. I wouldn't attack decently RRed friars that don't have RA neither. But i was also very surprised to see that it is a) not an active and b) works while CCed. In combination that probably could be toned down a notch.
When smallmanning though it becomes a bigger problem, in general i feel like friars bring far too much to a smallmen grp but that isn't neccesarily connected to RA and overall not an huge issue.

Thu 2 May 2019 11:10 AM by Kadorna

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Thu 2 May 2019 10:42 AM
Kadorna wrote: ↑
Thu 2 May 2019 9:40 AM
Seal wrote: ↑
Thu 2 May 2019 5:52 AM
the reason people complain about friars reflex more then anything is mainly for 1 reason :
you play in a server with highest amount of players on your side and you play a stealther that wants to roam in solo/duo stealthers without bother to give a crap which target to pick.....
why the reflex attack threads dont come up for berserk ? (that actually have a WAY better sinergy then friar for that RA, there are like 60 video of nate showing up that)

THIS!!!! Why only SB´s complain about RA on friars ?? why is not a problem on berserkers??

IF true (which isn't the case, several non-SBs here mentioning reasonable concerns) there would be several explanantions besides the "SBs just like to whine about anything"-story you are implying.

When i am on my SB though *wink*, RA doesn't really impact me. I wouldn't attack decently RRed friars that don't have RA neither. But i was also very surprised to see that it is a) not an active and b) works while CCed. In combination that probably could be toned down a notch.
When smallmanning though it becomes a bigger problem, in general i feel like friars bring far too much to a smallmen grp but that isn't neccesarily connected to RA and overall not an huge issue.

At 1.65v this was an active RA but the % of attacks reflected was 100%. On live servers with NF adn new RAs this was changed to exactly the same RA that phoenix implemented.
Unstyled attacks can be easily evaded/parried/blocked and that can be used as openers by the attacker...

Thu 2 May 2019 11:25 AM by Loki

Kadorna wrote: ↑
Thu 2 May 2019 9:40 AM
Seal wrote: ↑
Thu 2 May 2019 5:52 AM
the reason people complain about friars reflex more then anything is mainly for 1 reason :
you play in a server with highest amount of players on your side and you play a stealther that wants to roam in solo/duo stealthers without bother to give a crap which target to pick.....
why the reflex attack threads dont come up for berserk ? (that actually have a WAY better sinergy then friar for that RA, there are like 60 video of nate showing up that)

THIS!!!! Why only SB´s complain about RA on friars ?? why is not a problem on berserkers??

Why does it matter who “complains”. This guy just posted a video and asked if this is supposed to happen like this. Maybe SBs “complain” because they see this RA in full display in 1v1s.

Do you think its normal? Do you think should stay like this or be changed ? What constructive opinion do you have , besides how much you hate shadowblades.

Thu 2 May 2019 11:49 AM by SlowMo

It´s very strong vs DW classes, nothing to argue here.
But even then it can also shit on yourself, when all unstyled attacks get evaded/parry/blocked or the reflex won´t proc. There must be hundreds of scenarios out there where it happens exactly the other way around, but we never get to see a video of this.

It does absolutely nothing vs casters, performs mediocre at best vs 2hand and give zero utility in groups.

So the invest of 30 Points is already pretty questionable for the potential reward...

Thu 2 May 2019 12:15 PM by jelzinga_EU

Kadorna wrote: ↑
Thu 2 May 2019 11:10 AM
At 1.65v this was an active RA but the % of attacks reflected was 100%. On live servers with NF adn new RAs this was changed to exactly the same RA that phoenix implemented.
Unstyled attacks can be easily evaded/parried/blocked and that can be used as openers by the attacker...

Unstyled attacks are not (more) easily evaded/parried/blocked than styled attacks. They do provide access to reactionaries when they are evaded/blocked.

As an active-RA there is a viable counterplay possible (kite, vanish, stop attacking - what not).

You have to remember that if you compare this to live: On Live most classes have 2X the HP in 1vs1-setting due to CL15 and buffbots, HoT-reactionaries on armor ticking for 150+ / tick, access to ML's and what not. The entire game is different there and what might be balanced there might not be balanced here.

Reflex Attack is stupid on a zerk too - but maybe they are less prevalent in the solo/small-men scene. I can imagine it is a problem on Merc/BM too (tho they can't wield a 2H) but those are not around much either.

Thu 2 May 2019 12:22 PM by jelzinga_EU

SlowMo wrote: ↑
Thu 2 May 2019 11:49 AM
It´s very strong vs DW classes, nothing to argue here.
But even then it can also shit on yourself, when all unstyled attacks get evaded/parry/blocked or the reflex won´t proc. There must be hundreds of scenarios out there where it happens exactly the other way around, but we never get to see a video of this.

It does absolutely nothing vs casters, performs mediocre at best vs 2hand and give zero utility in groups.

So the invest of 30 Points is already pretty questionable for the potential reward...

Rather than relying on vague statements it makes sense to just refer to the proc-rate. For ReflexAttack it is 50% chance. Based on that and an average Style-Multiplier it is pretty easy to calculate what Reflex Attack offers in terms of dps-improvements. In the worst proccable-scenario, attacks from a 2H weapon incoming into the friar, it is offering 2-3X more DPS than MoPain9. So calling that mediocre is quite far fetched. I would consider it one of the stronger RA's in small-men (too), depending on set-up (and enemies).

Thu 2 May 2019 12:34 PM by Hejjin

jelzinga_EU wrote: ↑
Thu 2 May 2019 12:15 PM
Kadorna wrote: ↑
Thu 2 May 2019 11:10 AM
At 1.65v this was an active RA but the % of attacks reflected was 100%. On live servers with NF adn new RAs this was changed to exactly the same RA that phoenix implemented.
Unstyled attacks can be easily evaded/parried/blocked and that can be used as openers by the attacker...

Unstyled attacks are not (more) easily evaded/parried/blocked than styled attacks. They do provide access to reactionaries when they are evaded/blocked.

As an active-RA there is a viable counterplay possible (kite, vanish, stop attacking - what not).

You have to remember that if you compare this to live: On Live most classes have 2X the HP in 1vs1-setting due to CL15 and buffbots, HoT-reactionaries on armor ticking for 150+ / tick, access to ML's and what not. The entire game is different there and what might be balanced there might not be balanced here.

Reflex Attack is stupid on a zerk too - but maybe they are less prevalent in the solo/small-men scene. I can imagine it is a problem on Merc/BM too (tho they can't wield a 2H) but those are not around much either.

There were not many Friars around until all the complaints about RA suddenly started to appear on the forums, so I believe we are witnessing the MMO equivalent of the Streisand effect. The more people whine, the more people will try out Friar's as the new flavour of the month class.

I posted in another thread about the issues I saw with RA, (it working whilst stunned for full damage, how often it procs off the RA attacks and the damage being based off weapon speed of staff rather than being normalised against a faster staff speed) however regardless of how much the assassins may complain, it is not an automatic IWIN button against all melee and it does absolutely nothing against casters. Unlike assassins, we cannot pick and choose our fights. In the thread on 4 SB's v 1 Friar an assassin admitted that he would attack all other classes, classes that are deadly to all other melee / hybrid classes, classes that Friars try to avoid and in the case of casters, die before we even get into melee range of them, so really it seems as if the most vocal of the complaints are coming from assassin classes because their scissors are finally being blunted / broken on the rock that is Friars with RA5.

Thu 2 May 2019 12:42 PM by SlowMo

jelzinga_EU wrote: ↑
Thu 2 May 2019 12:22 PM
SlowMo wrote: ↑
Thu 2 May 2019 11:49 AM
It´s very strong vs DW classes, nothing to argue here.
But even then it can also shit on yourself, when all unstyled attacks get evaded/parry/blocked or the reflex won´t proc. There must be hundreds of scenarios out there where it happens exactly the other way around, but we never get to see a video of this.

It does absolutely nothing vs casters, performs mediocre at best vs 2hand and give zero utility in groups.

So the invest of 30 Points is already pretty questionable for the potential reward...

Rather than relying on vague statements it makes sense to just refer to the proc-rate. For ReflexAttack it is 50% chance. Based on that and an average Style-Multiplier it is pretty easy to calculate what Reflex Attack offers in terms of dps-improvements. In the worst proccable-scenario, attacks from a 2H weapon incoming into the friar, it is offering 2-3X more DPS than MoPain9. So calling that mediocre is quite far fetched. I would consider it one of the stronger RA's in small-men (too), depending on set-up (and enemies).

If I get you right, this implicit that all reflex proccs do actually hit, which is far from reality.

Thu 2 May 2019 12:51 PM by Kadorna

Loki wrote: ↑
Thu 2 May 2019 11:25 AM
Kadorna wrote: ↑
Thu 2 May 2019 9:40 AM
Seal wrote: ↑
Thu 2 May 2019 5:52 AM
the reason people complain about friars reflex more then anything is mainly for 1 reason :
you play in a server with highest amount of players on your side and you play a stealther that wants to roam in solo/duo stealthers without bother to give a crap which target to pick.....
why the reflex attack threads dont come up for berserk ? (that actually have a WAY better sinergy then friar for that RA, there are like 60 video of nate showing up that)

THIS!!!! Why only SB´s complain about RA on friars ?? why is not a problem on berserkers??

Why does it matter who “complains”. This guy just posted a video and asked if this is supposed to happen like this. Maybe SBs “complain” because they see this RA in full display in 1v1s.

Do you think its normal? Do you think should stay like this or be changed ? What constructive opinion do you have , besides how much you hate shadowblades.

Do you think its normal? => Is working as intended (is ok for me)
Do you think should stay like this or be changed ? => should stay like this (or maybe rework all the "new RAs"
What constructive opinion do you have , besides how much you hate shadowblades => i dont hate sb´s , i hate the pple complaining assuming that any character can kill everything. SB´s cant kill a well temped+high RR friar who spend 30 RPS on RA assume it.
SB´s have access to swap to 2H weapons, if u know how RA is working why not use a 2H to fight vs friar??

back in the day, at 1.65v a SB can kill a friar (at same RR/temped)??

Thu 2 May 2019 1:00 PM by Kadorna

jelzinga_EU wrote: ↑
Thu 2 May 2019 12:15 PM
You have to remember that if you compare this to live: On Live most classes have 2X the HP in 1vs1-setting due to CL15 and buffbots, HoT-reactionaries on armor ticking for 150+ / tick, access to ML's and what not. The entire game is different there and what might be balanced there might not be balanced here.

Are u saying that we need to back to old RA sistem (like 1.65 version) to fix this?? because you can argue the same with mostly of the "New RAs" => TWF for example¿?¿?

Thu 2 May 2019 2:35 PM by jelzinga_EU

SlowMo wrote: ↑
Thu 2 May 2019 12:42 PM
If I get you right, this implicit that all reflex proccs do actually hit, which is far from reality.

No, this implicit that all reflex procs have the same hit% as your normal attacks.

Thu 2 May 2019 2:36 PM by jelzinga_EU

Kadorna wrote: ↑
Thu 2 May 2019 1:00 PM
jelzinga_EU wrote: ↑
Thu 2 May 2019 12:15 PM
You have to remember that if you compare this to live: On Live most classes have 2X the HP in 1vs1-setting due to CL15 and buffbots, HoT-reactionaries on armor ticking for 150+ / tick, access to ML's and what not. The entire game is different there and what might be balanced there might not be balanced here.

Are u saying that we need to back to old RA sistem (like 1.65 version) to fix this?? because you can argue the same with mostly of the "New RAs" => TWF for example¿?¿?

I think the easier way is to adjust the used RA's a bit . Scale TWF damage down, for example.

Thu 2 May 2019 4:05 PM by Sepplord

SlowMo wrote: ↑
Thu 2 May 2019 12:42 PM
jelzinga_EU wrote: ↑
Thu 2 May 2019 12:22 PM
SlowMo wrote: ↑
Thu 2 May 2019 11:49 AM
It´s very strong vs DW classes, nothing to argue here.
But even then it can also shit on yourself, when all unstyled attacks get evaded/parry/blocked or the reflex won´t proc. There must be hundreds of scenarios out there where it happens exactly the other way around, but we never get to see a video of this.

It does absolutely nothing vs casters, performs mediocre at best vs 2hand and give zero utility in groups.

So the invest of 30 Points is already pretty questionable for the potential reward...

Rather than relying on vague statements it makes sense to just refer to the proc-rate. For ReflexAttack it is 50% chance. Based on that and an average Style-Multiplier it is pretty easy to calculate what Reflex Attack offers in terms of dps-improvements. In the worst proccable-scenario, attacks from a 2H weapon incoming into the friar, it is offering 2-3X more DPS than MoPain9. So calling that mediocre is quite far fetched. I would consider it one of the stronger RA's in small-men (too), depending on set-up (and enemies).

If I get you right, this implicit that all reflex proccs do actually hit, which is far from reality.

If nothing hits all abilities are the same...is that your point? Any equation can be solved easily by multiplying with zero....that just doesn't help anyone reach a conclusion though
MoP9 needs attack to actually hit to "procc" and therefor deal damage too

The comparison is decent

Thu 2 May 2019 4:22 PM by Kadorna

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Thu 2 May 2019 4:05 PM
SlowMo wrote: ↑
Thu 2 May 2019 12:42 PM
jelzinga_EU wrote: ↑
Thu 2 May 2019 12:22 PM
Rather than relying on vague statements it makes sense to just refer to the proc-rate. For ReflexAttack it is 50% chance. Based on that and an average Style-Multiplier it is pretty easy to calculate what Reflex Attack offers in terms of dps-improvements. In the worst proccable-scenario, attacks from a 2H weapon incoming into the friar, it is offering 2-3X more DPS than MoPain9. So calling that mediocre is quite far fetched. I would consider it one of the stronger RA's in small-men (too), depending on set-up (and enemies).

If I get you right, this implicit that all reflex proccs do actually hit, which is far from reality.

If nothing hits all abilities are the same...is that your point? Any equation can be solved easily by multiplying with zero....that just doesn't help anyone reach a conclusion though
MoP9 needs attack to actually hit to "procc" and therefor deal damage too

The comparison is decent

MoP works when u land a hit, RA works when u get a melee hit => if anyone is hitting u (melee) dont get any reward from the 30 RPS spend on that RA. So is totally useless Vs casters/healers (where u can profit from MoP) or in any situation where u are hitting someone but the target is not hitting you (any melee train or simply if your target is hitting omeone else) where u can profit from MoP => You can get some profit from the 30 RPS spend on RA only in some situations but you will profit from MoP in every hit u land o target.

Thu 2 May 2019 5:00 PM by Mavella

What about when I'm getting kited and can't land a hit? My 34 point Mop investment is essentially worthless because I'm being outplayed. Your comparison is idiotic. How do you outplay and always active 150dps damage shield as a mdps? You don't. You pray to the RNG gods(good luck, maybe a fg will come save you), attempt up run( jk spammable backsnare), blow an RA to maybe escape, or just die.

If friars aren't getting groups or this RA is a detriment to group play (breaking roots etc) where is it impactful? Solo and smallman play which is exactly where it's comically overtuned.

I will state again this isn't an issue exclusive to friars but they certianly are the ones using and abusing it the most.

Thu 2 May 2019 5:11 PM by Turano

yesterday a stunned friar hit me 4 times for a total of 1k damage in the 7 seconds stun duration.
Yeah I think it's a little bit broken and needs reworking

Fri 3 May 2019 1:45 PM by soiehib1337

Do you see Mages complain a SB can basically auto attack them afk and kill them ?
Pick your targets.

Fri 3 May 2019 2:47 PM by Hejjin

Turano wrote: ↑
Thu 2 May 2019 5:11 PM
yesterday a stunned friar hit me 4 times for a total of 1k damage in the 7 seconds stun duration.
Yeah I think it's a little bit broken and needs reworking

...and yesterday, when I was attacked by 2 SBs near the Albion Portal Keep in emain, out of 9 possible attacks that I made before I died (RA5 and normal attacks) 5 of the 9 attempts were evaded, one missed, the 3 that hit did less than 600 hp damage. RNG is RNG,, and the lesser god of the random number generator frowned upon me that time.

Mon 13 May 2019 1:37 PM by Dakkhon

Turano wrote: ↑
Thu 2 May 2019 5:11 PM
yesterday a stunned friar hit me 4 times for a total of 1k damage in the 7 seconds stun duration.
Yeah I think it's a little bit broken and needs reworking

.........yeah can you provide any pics or video of this? No one here is going to believe this my friend sorry. Its not broken and its good the way it is. There are tons of class fixes that need to be adjusted as well as RA's but this one is not it. Never had a Friar do anything like this to me in combat. Sure reflex has hit but not like you stated. Even if it did....RNG.

Mon 13 May 2019 3:56 PM by Turano

Dakkhon wrote: ↑
Mon 13 May 2019 1:37 PM
.........yeah can you provide any pics or video of this? No one here is going to believe this my friend sorry. Its not broken and its good the way it is. There are tons of class fixes that need to be adjusted as well as RA's but this one is not it. Never had a Friar do anything like this to me in combat. Sure reflex has hit but not like you stated. Even if it did....RNG.

I don't even care if you believe it or not. I've never been clipping my gameplay and I don't think I will in the near future

Tue 14 May 2019 6:35 AM by Sepplord

Turano wrote: ↑
Mon 13 May 2019 3:56 PM
Dakkhon wrote: ↑
Mon 13 May 2019 1:37 PM
.........yeah can you provide any pics or video of this? No one here is going to believe this my friend sorry. Its not broken and its good the way it is. There are tons of class fixes that need to be adjusted as well as RA's but this one is not it. Never had a Friar do anything like this to me in combat. Sure reflex has hit but not like you stated. Even if it did....RNG.
I don't even care if you believe it or not. I've never been clipping my gameplay and I don't think I will in the near future

I don't even get why he questions your claim...it's not that low of a chance to be happening...I usually didn't attack friars before, but if incs were slow i would pick a fight with them from time to time.
Since the increase of friars running around and all of them speccing RA (due to these threads

) i don't attack them to kill anymore.
I did two times though to suicide when i wanted to log/afk and once when i wasn't sure and thought it might be a caster. All three times the friar had more health than me after i backstabbed and snowsqualled.

Clips aren't needed, every assassin knows it, and every friar knows it.
Is it unbalanced? Pretty sure it is.
Is it a huge problem? Probably not...i might even be dieing LESS to friars now, since i simply don't fight them anymore if i have the choice