BD Dark-Pets nerfed by 30% ; no clear patch-notes

I found in the patch-notes:
- adjusted spell damage against targets with a different level (now linear decrease / increase instead of exponential)

Now on its own this doesn't mean a whole lot, since we do not know it is a nerf or a boost to spell-damage, as we do not know the formula's.

However, I was lucky enough to have an old combat-log in which you can see what it does in practice. Same spec, same gear on BD, same 50% body-debuff on same mobs:

PRE-PATCH:
[17:40:46] Your bone warmage hits the drakulv axehand for 135 (-23) damage!
[17:40:43] Your bone warmage hits the drakulv axehand for 144 (-25) damage!
[17:40:49] Your bone warmage hits the drakulv axehand for 153 (-27) damage!
[17:41:18] Your bone warmage hits the drakulv axehand for 159 (+50) damage!
[17:42:09] Your bone warmage hits the drakulv axehand for 165 (-29) damage!
[17:41:30] Your bone warmage hits the drakulv axehand for 168 (+53) damage!
[17:41:35] Your bone warmage hits the drakulv axehand for 168 (+53) damage!
[17:41:33] Your bone warmage hits the drakulv axehand for 185 (+59) damage!
[17:40:38] Your bone warmage hits the drakulv axehand for 201 (+64) damage!
[17:42:44] Your bone warmage hits the drakulv axehand for 201 (+64) damage!
[17:41:24] Your bone warmage hits the drakulv axehand for 210 (+67) damage!
[17:42:59] Your bone warmage hits the drakulv axehand for 229 (+73) damage!
[17:40:35] Your bone warmage hits the drakulv axehand for 242 (+77) damage!
[17:42:07] Your bone warmage hits the drakulv axehand for 245 (+78) damage!
[17:41:59] Your bone warmage hits the drakulv axehand for 253 (+81) damage!
[17:40:41] Your bone warmage hits the drakulv axehand for 254 (+81) damage!
[17:41:38] Your bone warmage hits the drakulv axehand for 260 (+83) damage!
[17:42:11] Your bone warmage hits the drakulv axehand for 263 (+84) damage!
[17:42:01] Your bone warmage hits the drakulv axehand for 271 (+86) damage!
[17:42:17] Your bone warmage hits the drakulv sacrificer for 199 (+63) damage!
[17:41:07] Your bone warmage hits the drakulv sacrificer for 256 (+82) damage!
[17:42:20] Your bone warmage hits the drakulv sacrificer for 263 (+84) damage!
[17:41:09] Your bone warmage hits the drakulv sacrificer for 274 (+87) damage!
[17:41:05] Your bone warmage hits the drakulv sacrificer for 289 (+92) damage!

POST-PATCH:
[06:27:47] Your bone warmage hits the drakulv axehand for 132 (+42) damage!
[06:28:15] Your bone warmage hits the drakulv axehand for 134 (+43) damage!
[06:28:32] Your bone warmage hits the drakulv axehand for 134 (+43) damage!
[06:28:52] Your bone warmage hits the drakulv axehand for 145 (+46) damage!
[06:27:42] Your bone warmage hits the drakulv axehand for 147 (+47) damage!
[06:27:52] Your bone warmage hits the drakulv axehand for 147 (+47) damage!
[06:27:30] Your bone warmage hits the drakulv axehand for 150 (+48) damage!
[06:28:34] Your bone warmage hits the drakulv axehand for 150 (+48) damage!
[06:27:28] Your bone warmage hits the drakulv axehand for 151 (+48) damage!
[06:28:54] Your bone warmage hits the drakulv axehand for 157 (+50) damage!
[06:29:07] Your bone warmage hits the drakulv axehand for 167 (+53) damage!
[06:27:44] Your bone warmage hits the drakulv axehand for 168 (+53) damage!
[06:28:26] Your bone warmage hits the drakulv axehand for 171 (+54) damage!
[06:27:59] Your bone warmage hits the drakulv axehand for 172 (+55) damage!
[06:28:09] Your bone warmage hits the drakulv axehand for 173 (+55) damage!
[06:27:54] Your bone warmage hits the drakulv axehand for 182 (+58) damage!
[06:28:04] Your bone warmage hits the drakulv axehand for 182 (+58) damage!
[06:28:59] Your bone warmage hits the drakulv axehand for 187 (+59) damage!
[06:28:57] Your bone warmage hits the drakulv axehand for 188 (+60) damage!
[06:28:37] Your bone warmage hits the drakulv axehand for 190 (+60) damage!
[06:28:06] Your bone warmage hits the drakulv axehand for 191 (+61) damage!
[06:27:50] Your bone warmage hits the drakulv axehand for 194 (+62) damage!
[06:29:02] Your bone warmage hits the drakulv axehand for 194 (+62) damage!
[06:28:40] Your bone warmage hits the drakulv axehand for 84 (-14) damage!
[06:29:42] Your bone warmage hits the drakulv sacrificer for 143 (+45) damage!
[06:29:30] Your bone warmage hits the drakulv sacrificer for 144 (+46) damage!
[06:29:32] Your bone warmage hits the drakulv sacrificer for 170 (+54) damage!
[06:29:45] Your bone warmage hits the drakulv sacrificer for 176 (+56) damage!
[06:29:35] Your bone warmage hits the drakulv sacrificer for 186 (+59) damage!
[06:29:37] Your bone warmage hits the drakulv sacrificer for 199 (+63) damage!
[06:29:40] Your bone warmage hits the drakulv sacrificer for 204 (+65) damage!

That is roughly a 25% reduction in damage. Now leaving the discussion aside for a minute if that was warranted and/or needed, it should be painfully obvious that if you change something this much - it should be documented much clearer in patch-notes as should it's implications. A 25% nerf to Darkness pets is a huge change - and if the patch-notes just say something about changing the way spells scale, but don't state how much that is in practice is really poor communication.

Tue 16 Apr 2019 5:38 AM by teiloh

Darkness pets at this patch level did roughly 100-120 damage, and casted much slower.

However healer pets casted faster, and were not interruptible.

Tue 16 Apr 2019 6:09 AM by deladian

I am also curious and would like clarification on this. My finger is hovering over the uninstall button, if I'm being honest here.

Tue 16 Apr 2019 7:05 AM by Sepplord

deladian wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 6:09 AM
I am also curious and would like clarification on this. My finger is hovering over the uninstall button, if I'm being honest here.

because of the nerf?
because of the unclear communication?
because you are bored of the game anyways?

i agree that things like this should be communicated more clearly, servernews is probably not the best place for explanations, but the patch-announcements would leave room for detailed explanations. That takes time/work though too, so it's not a simple fact, that someone doing it would be better. It might not increase playerbase happiness by much but in the long run make a new feature not being implemented because the time was spent on discussion every single change

last but not least: afaik BD pets work very differently here (hearsay from the forum). IF that is true (and it might very well be, there is a lot of misinformation here) then it is expected that there will be nerfs. All it takes is someone putting in the effort to prove that there is something too high and it will get changed.
Those people won't prove at the same time where a buff might be warranted, that's on the BD community to prove IF they believe there are buffs needed in other areas

Tue 16 Apr 2019 7:23 AM by

gruenesschaf

The patch yesterday accidentally already included the caster part of the pet fixes that are planned for today or tomorrow. Aside from the damage bonus/reduction per level difference that affects everything, including player, the patch yesterday apparently also included using the actual pet level instead of the caster level. So before yesterday your pets nuked as if they were level 50 wrt resist rate and variance and had no damage penalty against level 50. This affected all pets, except necro and animist bomber, those 2 are supposed to use the owner level for spell resist and damage.

While it wasn't exactly supposed to be applied yesterday already, and hence wasn't mentioned in the patch notes, it's intended and the same will happen either today or tomorrow for the melee outgoing and incoming part. This will affect all pets, including necro pet.

Tue 16 Apr 2019 7:49 AM by Lillebror

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 7:23 AM
The patch yesterday accidentally already included the caster part of the pet fixes that are planned for today or tomorrow. Aside from the damage bonus/reduction per level difference that affects everything, including player, the patch yesterday apparently also included using the actual pet level instead of the caster level. So before yesterday your pets nuked as if they were level 50 wrt resist rate and variance and had no damage penalty against level 50. This affected all pets, except necro and animist bomber, those 2 are supposed to use the owner level for spell resist and damage.

While it wasn't exactly supposed to be applied yesterday already, and hence wasn't mentioned in the patch notes, it's intended and the same will happen either today or tomorrow for the melee outgoing and incoming part. This will affect all pets, including necro pet.

Do i read this correct, that charmed pets is now tiny unnerfed?

Tue 16 Apr 2019 7:55 AM by

gruenesschaf

Lillebror wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 7:49 AM
Do i read this correct, that charmed pets is now tiny unnerfed?

That's part of why it was left out of yesterdays patch, not entirely sure if we will apply this to the outgoing melee part of charmed pets too.

Tue 16 Apr 2019 8:02 AM by Lillebror

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 7:55 AM
Lillebror wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 7:49 AM
Do i read this correct, that charmed pets is now tiny unnerfed?

That's part of why it was left out of yesterdays patch, not entirely sure if we will apply this to the outgoing melee part of charmed pets too.

Atleast do as Leroy proposted in his tracker proposal and make them hit equal on the charmer and the opponent.
As is, minstrel get hit harder than the opponents if he releases pet.
red and grape pets is devestating but just in its colour if charmed.

Tue 16 Apr 2019 8:25 AM by

gruenesschaf

Lillebror wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 8:02 AM
Atleast do as Leroy proposted in his tracker proposal and make them hit equal on the charmer and the opponent.
As is, minstrel get hit harder than the opponents if he releases pet.
red and grape pets is devestating but just in its colour if charmed.

That is likely what we will go with

Tue 16 Apr 2019 8:57 AM by Sepplord

This bug would explain why BD felt so OP, considering this change will hit them the hardest (afaik they have the lowest pets). All in all pets did feel quite strong, good to hear it is getting fixed.

Necros are unaffected by the caster-petchanges right? But will take more/deal less melee-dmg? (also sounds good since they were almost untochable by melees).

I just feel a bit sorry for the hunters, their pets was already basically useless, and will now be even weaker...hopefully this opens them up more for a hunter-only pet buff

Tue 16 Apr 2019 9:16 AM by jelzinga_EU

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 7:23 AM
The patch yesterday accidentally already included the caster part of the pet fixes that are planned for today or tomorrow. Aside from the damage bonus/reduction per level difference that affects everything, including player, the patch yesterday apparently also included using the actual pet level instead of the caster level. So before yesterday your pets nuked as if they were level 50 wrt resist rate and variance and had no damage penalty against level 50. This affected all pets, except necro and animist bomber, those 2 are supposed to use the owner level for spell resist and damage.

While it wasn't exactly supposed to be applied yesterday already, and hence wasn't mentioned in the patch notes, it's intended and the same will happen either today or tomorrow for the melee outgoing and incoming part. This will affect all pets, including necro pet.

So if I understand you correctly there is a 25%-30% damage-nerf to Darkness caster-pets and that is intended ? I think BD is the only class who can max use green caster-pets. This nerf will hit BD much harder than anyone else because their caster-pets are (at least) blue or higher. Since BD caster nuke-pets are limited to greencon max (@ 45 Darkness-spec) I do feel this change is not thought-trough properly.

In light of recent changes to Summoning SM getting nerfed too I think a lot of people who play Midgard will feel this nerf as another slap in the face for their farming capabilities, especially when you compare it with necromancer or animist,

Tue 16 Apr 2019 9:23 AM by Tool73

well and 1 year of beta ngolokante was showing u what damage can be done by dark bd and NOW, cause bd is most played class, u fix this? could be at least a free respecc given for all classes nerfed by this. And for shure, hunter one more nerf for his opness... well, time for a realmchange, name twfbotzwei still available for my warden? ;-)

Tue 16 Apr 2019 9:29 AM by Fk_

Tool73 wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 9:23 AM
well and 1 year of beta ngolokante was showing u what damage can be done by dark bd and NOW, cause bd is most played class, u fix this? could be at least a free respecc given for all classes nerfed by this. And for shure, hunter one more nerf for his opness... well, time for a realmchange, name twfbotzwei still available for my warden? ;-)

Do you mean when he abused pet damage being Body type, on not balanced pets yet ( in a beta) ?

Tue 16 Apr 2019 9:52 AM by Dariussdars

My 45 spec darkness pets were rooted last night, so couldn't debuff for them. Bard who rooted them ran by, and the two pets that I spent 1000+ skill points on were nuking him for 50-60 damage.

Tue 16 Apr 2019 10:03 AM by Sepplord

Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 9:52 AM
My 45 spec darkness pets were rooted last night, so couldn't debuff for them. Bard who rooted them ran by, and the two pets that I spent 1000+ skill points on were nuking him for 50-60 damage.

uhhh...well at least you make it obvious you don't know what you are talking about

Tue 16 Apr 2019 10:05 AM by Dariussdars

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 10:03 AM
Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 9:52 AM
My 45 spec darkness pets were rooted last night, so couldn't debuff for them. Bard who rooted them ran by, and the two pets that I spent 1000+ skill points on were nuking him for 50-60 damage.

uhhh...well at least you make it obvious you don't know what you are talking about

I don't know what I'm talking about? The day before, the mage pets were nuking for 100-150, without the debuff. Last night they nuked for 50. What about that confuses you?

Toss in the laughable damage of the commander meleeing for 60 damage per hit on top of that.

Tue 16 Apr 2019 10:08 AM by Afuldan

“by gruenesschaf
Well the lines aren't exactly attractive, while summoning has some use as it has the focus shield it's a rather niche use given the lack of other things that would make it interesting. Same basically goes for ench ench, live did some really interesting things with that. However, when first introduced, those new things were pretty stupidly OP (group buff offensive proc for a pbae with a quite high delve and things like that), like most newly introduced things before the first nerf.

With revamp, which we don't intend to do, I basically mean giving those lines something that would kind of allow them to be useful. I mean it would potentially be ideal if there actually was any kind of spec diversity because all lines are good and not just a very few specs per class but that's just not the case and fixing this would really be too many changes where the interaction between things is just too complex to do them without messing up and making something op and taking that away later would cause much whining then, keeping the status quo on those less useful specs is, at least to us, the better option as it's just "how it is" and the majority of players know it to be the case before they choose a class. However, as I said in the last post, every class should at least be able to fill some roll and not be entirely useless.”

Sound familiar, BD?

“It isn’t our fault that there is useless spec lines, but we totally aren’t guessing how mechanics work. Don’t worry, more adjustments to other classes to bring them in line with our other adjustments will happen Soon(tm).

Tue 16 Apr 2019 10:25 AM by Dariussdars

Just wondering if we will be given free full skill respecs? I see no reason to try to pvp or farm with pets that nuke for 50-60 damage, and 100 damage with debuff.

Tue 16 Apr 2019 10:25 AM by Sepplord

Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 10:05 AM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 10:03 AM
Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 9:52 AM
My 45 spec darkness pets were rooted last night, so couldn't debuff for them. Bard who rooted them ran by, and the two pets that I spent 1000+ skill points on were nuking him for 50-60 damage.

uhhh...well at least you make it obvious you don't know what you are talking about

I don't know what I'm talking about? The day before, the mage pets were nuking for 100-150, without the debuff. Last night they nuked for 50. What about that confuses you?

Toss in the laughable damage of the commander meleeing for 60 damage per hit on top of that.

a bard rooting your pets sounds like something not happening on this server...so why would any of your other "facts" be taken at face value?

Tue 16 Apr 2019 10:30 AM by Dariussdars

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 10:25 AM
Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 10:05 AM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 10:03 AM
uhhh...well at least you make it obvious you don't know what you are talking about

I don't know what I'm talking about? The day before, the mage pets were nuking for 100-150, without the debuff. Last night they nuked for 50. What about that confuses you?

Toss in the laughable damage of the commander meleeing for 60 damage per hit on top of that.

a bard rooting your pets sounds like something not happening on this server...so why would any of your other "facts" be taken at face value?

There was a group of Hibs in Uppland last night that had 2 bards in it genius. 2 Bards and 2 druids, and they strung the fight out from SF almost to the relic keep. I pulled off, and was chasing one of the Bards away from his group. The 2nd bard had already rooted my useless caster pets back down the road. Bard I was on got range on me, then rooted me. He then proceeded back to his group, and probably laughed as my rooted mages nuked him for 50-60 damage.

Pets were already mez immune, why would anyone go to the trouble of rooting them and taking them out of the fight? Derp.

Perhaps you should actually know WTF you are commenting on before spouting off and coming across like an idiot?

Tue 16 Apr 2019 10:44 AM by Salidry

But.... bard doesn't has root

Tue 16 Apr 2019 10:48 AM by Dariussdars

Salidry wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 10:44 AM
But.... bard doesn't has root

Heh, was the Druids doing the rooting then. My mistake. Doesn't change the fact that the darkness pets damage is laughable now.

Tue 16 Apr 2019 11:00 AM by Tool73

was the same fight startet at sf, when 4 dark-bd assist cast on one celt-bm in front, could not get him below 80% life, while he hits for 500 on damn bds...thats genesis here :-D

Tue 16 Apr 2019 12:04 PM by Sepplord

Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 10:30 AM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 10:25 AM
Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 10:05 AM
I don't know what I'm talking about? The day before, the mage pets were nuking for 100-150, without the debuff. Last night they nuked for 50. What about that confuses you?

Toss in the laughable damage of the commander meleeing for 60 damage per hit on top of that.

a bard rooting your pets sounds like something not happening on this server...so why would any of your other "facts" be taken at face value?

There was a group of Hibs in Uppland last night that had 2 bards in it genius. 2 Bards and 2 druids, and they strung the fight out from SF almost to the relic keep. I pulled off, and was chasing one of the Bards away from his group. The 2nd bard had already rooted my useless caster pets back down the road. Bard I was on got range on me, then rooted me. He then proceeded back to his group, and probably laughed as my rooted mages nuked him for 50-60 damage.

Pets were already mez immune, why would anyone go to the trouble of rooting them and taking them out of the fight? Derp.

Perhaps you should actually know WTF you are commenting on before spouting off and coming across like an idiot?

I'll spell it out for you: Bard's don't have root

So after you moved the goalpost, the pets are now not nuking a solo-bard but a fullgroup with resistbuffs. Completely different information.

Additionally, noone is denying that the dmg is low. Even a GM has already confirmed. So what are you arguing?

a) your comment was straight out WRONG
b) it doesn't add anything to the discussion

It's pretty clear you were just ranting. When you got called out for ranting with false information you double down and accuse me of being the ignorant person. which brings me back to my first comment: at least you made it easy to spot that your comment should not be considered for the sake of the discussion

Tue 16 Apr 2019 12:23 PM by dbeattie71

deladian wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 6:09 AM
I am also curious and would like clarification on this. My finger is hovering over the uninstall button, if I'm being honest here.

Why uninstall and instead not login? With storage these days daoc doesn’t take up much space.

Tue 16 Apr 2019 12:34 PM by Dominus

roled a mana chanter, hit 45 (ish) and got the note about the focus shield nerd. (nice...), relocated to mid with a friend, bonedance is now ... you guessed it, 45... nerfed again.. my finger is also hovering.

Tue 16 Apr 2019 12:48 PM by Lillebror

Dominus wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 12:34 PM
roled a mana chanter, hit 45 (ish) and got the note about the focus shield nerd. (nice...), relocated to mid with a friend, bonedance is now ... you guessed it, 45... nerfed again.. my finger is also hovering.

Could you please try make a Champion, NS, VW, Animist, Thane, SB and Skald ?

Tue 16 Apr 2019 12:59 PM by Sepplord

Lillebror wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 12:48 PM
Dominus wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 12:34 PM
roled a mana chanter, hit 45 (ish) and got the note about the focus shield nerd. (nice...), relocated to mid with a friend, bonedance is now ... you guessed it, 45... nerfed again.. my finger is also hovering.

Could you please try make a Champion, NS, VW, Animist, Thane, SB and Skald ?

boooooring

rather make a hunter and really test out the limits of your gift

though, that reminds me....this actually already is a hunternerf in theory...not a targetted one, but they are in the collateral

Tue 16 Apr 2019 1:21 PM by Lillebror

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 12:59 PM
Lillebror wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 12:48 PM
Dominus wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 12:34 PM
roled a mana chanter, hit 45 (ish) and got the note about the focus shield nerd. (nice...), relocated to mid with a friend, bonedance is now ... you guessed it, 45... nerfed again.. my finger is also hovering.

Could you please try make a Champion, NS, VW, Animist, Thane, SB and Skald ?

boooooring

rather make a hunter and really test out the limits of your gift

though, that reminds me....this actually already is a hunternerf in theory...not a targetted one, but they are in the collateral

Have you ever seen a charmed hunter pet in rvr?

Tue 16 Apr 2019 1:26 PM by Sepplord

Lillebror wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 1:21 PM
Have you ever seen a charmed hunter pet in rvr?

Yes, once!
But i am not sure what you are hinting at...these changes affect all pets, not only charmed ones?

Tue 16 Apr 2019 2:11 PM by Ardri

deladian wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 6:09 AM
I am also curious and would like clarification on this. My finger is hovering over the uninstall button, if I'm being honest here.

Busted OP bd warmage pets finally get tuned down to a normal level. MUH FINGER IS HOVERING OVER UNINSTALL DEVS. BETTER FIX IT OR ELSE.

Tue 16 Apr 2019 2:12 PM by Tool73

Lillebror wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 12:48 PM
Dominus wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 12:34 PM
roled a mana chanter, hit 45 (ish) and got the note about the focus shield nerd. (nice...), relocated to mid with a friend, bonedance is now ... you guessed it, 45... nerfed again.. my finger is also hovering.

Could you please try make a Champion, NS, VW, Animist, Thane, SB and Skald ?

So all other classes are useless in rvr....maybe we should just delete them in whole from the game? But for what roll those classes u named, maybe next nerf inc in some days to them :-D

Tue 16 Apr 2019 2:15 PM by Ardri

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 10:03 AM
Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 9:52 AM
My 45 spec darkness pets were rooted last night, so couldn't debuff for them. Bard who rooted them ran by, and the two pets that I spent 1000+ skill points on were nuking him for 50-60 damage.

uhhh...well at least you make it obvious you don't know what you are talking about

Funniest post i've read today

Tue 16 Apr 2019 2:16 PM by Tool73

Ardri wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 2:11 PM
deladian wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 6:09 AM
I am also curious and would like clarification on this. My finger is hovering over the uninstall button, if I'm being honest here.

Busted OP bd warmage pets finally get tuned down to a normal level. MUH FINGER IS HOVERING OVER UNINSTALL DEVS. BETTER FIX IT OR ELSE.

Seems a OP Minstrel got shredderd by a midgard caster class once and could not get away with his sos2 in time...

Tue 16 Apr 2019 2:35 PM by waffel

Oh no, a BD player might uninstall. What will phoenix do with 1 less player playing the most played class on the server?!

Tue 16 Apr 2019 3:07 PM by Dominus

I always had a cliff beetle on charm.. great rupter and no one paid them any attention sitting there.

Tue 16 Apr 2019 3:18 PM by Boltman

Will this affect Theurg ice pets? Animist FnF pets? Cabby pets?

Tue 16 Apr 2019 3:45 PM by NegativeX

Only problem I see with the change is mainly in the Dark line... being we're extremely reliant on our pets to dish out damage in RVR. When your main source of damage is nerfed pretty hard, you're pretty much left with nothing else to fall back on in the Dark line. The pets already die at the drop of a hat in any serious engagement.

Suppose it might be time to just go full supression and play a more defensive role. Always wanted to give it a whirl.

Free respec would be nice tho.

Tue 16 Apr 2019 4:01 PM by Stoertebecker

It`s closer to 40% damage reduction for the darkness casters.
If you go suppression you`ll lose at least 1 option to interupt and get 2 healers that just start healing as you`re near death. Fair trade, or?

Meanwhile the shrooms are still casting without los and are still alive after their owner dies.

Overall, not a good change from a bd`s view.

Nevermind, time to use the bone hexers more and snare a lot

Tue 16 Apr 2019 4:04 PM by NegativeX

Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 4:01 PM
It`s closer to 40% damage reduction for the darkness casters.
If you go suppression you`ll lose at least 1 option to interupt and get 2 healers that just start healing as you`re near death. Fair trade, or?

Meanwhile the shrooms are still casting without los and are still alive after their owner dies.

Overall, not a good change from a bd`s view.

Nevermind, time to use the bone hexers more and snare a lot

Yikes... didn't realize healer pets were so delayed on their reaction time.

Well this just... sucks.

Tue 16 Apr 2019 4:05 PM by nixxo87

little late now? all of the bd's are high realm rank because of this op 30% dmg buff they shouldnt have had.

Tue 16 Apr 2019 4:21 PM by Jodocus_Quak

BD is the most played class. We will see what this nerf (warranted or not) does to the overall population of the server.

Tue 16 Apr 2019 4:24 PM by teiloh

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 8:25 AM
That is likely what we will go with

I do hope you guys go through with it. Minstrel pets here hit maybe 50% or less of their damage on live which is a very big and unnecessary nerf imo.

For BDs, is there any chance the team can take a look at the fossil healer pets, which are casting a bit slower (4s vs 3.2s) and are interruptible (vs. uninterruptible on live)? Likewise, Bone Army pets do rather low DPS last I checked. Maybe we can swap the Dex/Qui and Str/Con buffs from Dark and Bone Army as well, as BD TL Sheena proposed in her 1.6x TL report.

I'm also a bit worried about Necromancer as they seem to actually be taking more damage here than they did on Original 1.65.

Also, does this affect Theurg ice pets? The way I understood all pet spells is that pets would sometimes be tiered and assigned set spells with spell levels (BD casters, Theurg ice pets), and resist rates/damage would be based on those spell levels. Some on the other hand would scale with level, like Enchanter/Ruby Simulacrum spells. Are all pets being put on the latter system then?

Tue 16 Apr 2019 5:50 PM by Sharky04

Tool73 wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 9:23 AM
well and 1 year of beta ngolokante was showing u what damage can be done by dark bd and NOW, cause bd is most played class, u fix this? could be at least a free respecc given for all classes nerfed by this. And for shure, hunter one more nerf for his opness... well, time for a realmchange, name twfbotzwei still available for my warden? ;-)

So you are changing from the most OP class to the weakest one? Any of your green pets does more damage than a Warden.

Tue 16 Apr 2019 5:54 PM by Sharky04

Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 10:48 AM
Salidry wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 10:44 AM
But.... bard doesn't has root

Heh, was the Druids doing the rooting then. My mistake. Doesn't change the fact that the darkness pets damage is laughable now.

You mean you have encountered the one Druid in Hiberbia who has AE Root specced?

Tue 16 Apr 2019 6:59 PM by Sleepwell

Not that big a deal. My BD was/is dark 46. I still intend to play until i'm fed up, then its back to LIVE if i choose. For now, the appeal of not paying to play something that is constantly manipulated without much reasoning outweighs PAYING to play something that is constantly manipulated without much reasoning. In the end.. the common denominator between here and LIVE is massive changes without much thought. The "uncommon" denominator is the cost :-)

Tue 16 Apr 2019 7:51 PM by Lothalihan

lol spiritmaster turned from unwanted into unplayable. pet dead 2 hits

Tue 16 Apr 2019 8:24 PM by Stoertebecker

Sharky04 wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 5:50 PM
Tool73 wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 9:23 AM
well and 1 year of beta ngolokante was showing u what damage can be done by dark bd and NOW, cause bd is most played class, u fix this? could be at least a free respecc given for all classes nerfed by this. And for shure, hunter one more nerf for his opness... well, time for a realmchange, name twfbotzwei still available for my warden? ;-)

So you are changing from the most OP class to the weakest one? Any of your green pets does more damage than a Warden.

Even a gray shroom will do more damage as a warden, so what?

Tue 16 Apr 2019 8:43 PM by Dariussdars

Sharky04 wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 5:54 PM
Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 10:48 AM
Salidry wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 10:44 AM
But.... bard doesn't has root

Heh, was the Druids doing the rooting then. My mistake. Doesn't change the fact that the darkness pets damage is laughable now.

You mean you have encountered the one Druid in Hiberbia who has AE Root specced?

It was highly effective, having AE mez and AE root in the same group. Entire group was all celts, which made it a pain to target anyone from a distance, especially when targetting them from behind the trees with no visible target available.

Tue 16 Apr 2019 8:46 PM by Dariussdars

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 12:04 PM
Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 10:30 AM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 10:25 AM
a bard rooting your pets sounds like something not happening on this server...so why would any of your other "facts" be taken at face value?

There was a group of Hibs in Uppland last night that had 2 bards in it genius. 2 Bards and 2 druids, and they strung the fight out from SF almost to the relic keep. I pulled off, and was chasing one of the Bards away from his group. The 2nd bard had already rooted my useless caster pets back down the road. Bard I was on got range on me, then rooted me. He then proceeded back to his group, and probably laughed as my rooted mages nuked him for 50-60 damage.

Pets were already mez immune, why would anyone go to the trouble of rooting them and taking them out of the fight? Derp.

Perhaps you should actually know WTF you are commenting on before spouting off and coming across like an idiot?

I'll spell it out for you: Bard's don't have root

So after you moved the goalpost, the pets are now not nuking a solo-bard but a fullgroup with resistbuffs. Completely different information.

Additionally, noone is denying that the dmg is low. Even a GM has already confirmed. So what are you arguing?

a) your comment was straight out WRONG
b) it doesn't add anything to the discussion

It's pretty clear you were just ranting. When you got called out for ranting with false information you double down and accuse me of being the ignorant person. which brings me back to my first comment: at least you made it easy to spot that your comment should not be considered for the sake of the discussion

Moved the goal post? I NEVER said I was fighting a Bard in a 1 on 1 situation genius. Bards have root on live, so I figured they had it here too. I already corrected my mistake, how convenient you skipped over that though.

Gotta love toxic whiners like you though, make these forums so much more enjoyable. EVERY member of that Hib group was a Celt, and most of the fight I had no visible targets, because I was out of their LoS behind trees.

Once again, thanks for your input on a situation you weren't involved in, and have no knowledge of.

Tue 16 Apr 2019 8:48 PM by Dariussdars

Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 9:52 AM
My 45 spec darkness pets were rooted last night, so couldn't debuff for them. Bard who rooted them ran by, and the two pets that I spent 1000+ skill points on were nuking him for 50-60 damage.

Where in the above does it say I was in a 1 on 1 fight with a Bard Sepplord? Should have said DRUID who rooted the pets ran by them, laughing as they nuked him for 50-60 damage each.

Derp.

Tue 16 Apr 2019 8:49 PM by Paraa

Animist was insane = nerfed
Necro was insane = nerfed
and now BD was insane = nerfed
Thanks to it !

Tue 16 Apr 2019 9:11 PM by cortexqc

Paraa wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 8:49 PM
Animist was insane = nerfed
Necro was insane = nerfed
and now BD was insane = nerfed
Thanks to it !

you forget
Focus spell was insane in pve = Nerfed

Tue 16 Apr 2019 9:19 PM by Sharky04

Lothalihan wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 7:51 PM
lol spiritmaster turned from unwanted into unplayable. pet dead 2 hits

Before the patch the sm pet was harder to kill than any caster.

Tue 16 Apr 2019 9:20 PM by Sharky04

Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 8:43 PM
It was highly effective, having AE mez and AE root in the same group. Entire group was all celts, which made it a pain to target anyone from a distance, especially when targetting them from behind the trees with no visible target available.

Almost every mid group has ae mezz and ae root. Almost no hib group has ae mezz and ae root.

Tue 16 Apr 2019 9:22 PM by Sharky04

Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 8:48 PM
Where in the above does it say I was in a 1 on 1 fight with a Bard Sepplord? Should have said DRUID who rooted the pets ran by them, laughing as they nuked him for 50-60 damage each.

Derp.

No Druid would laugh about being rupted 100% of the time.

Tue 16 Apr 2019 9:25 PM by Dariussdars

Sharky04 wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 9:22 PM
Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 8:48 PM
Where in the above does it say I was in a 1 on 1 fight with a Bard Sepplord? Should have said DRUID who rooted the pets ran by them, laughing as they nuked him for 50-60 damage each.

Derp.

No Druid would laugh about being rupted 100% of the time.

Yeah, being interrupted for 50-60 damage by rooted pets really hurt his group a lot. Druid was so far away from his group that there was nothing he could do for them even if he wasn't interrupted by the laughable damage of the rooted pets.

Tue 16 Apr 2019 9:27 PM by Dariussdars

Sharky04 wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 9:20 PM
Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 8:43 PM
It was highly effective, having AE mez and AE root in the same group. Entire group was all celts, which made it a pain to target anyone from a distance, especially when targetting them from behind the trees with no visible target available.

Almost every mid group has ae mezz and ae root. Almost no hib group has ae mezz and ae root.

Almost every Hib group has assist nukers with charmed pets. Zero Mid groups have any charmed pets. Two realms are different, weird.

Tue 16 Apr 2019 9:28 PM by Dariussdars

Sharky04 wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 9:19 PM
Lothalihan wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 7:51 PM
lol spiritmaster turned from unwanted into unplayable. pet dead 2 hits

Before the patch the sm pet was harder to kill than any caster.

After the patch, why would anyone bother playing a class where their pet is 2 shot, thus making it completely useless?

Tue 16 Apr 2019 10:43 PM by Fooj Fujiyama

This is a good patch, I am glad the devs are balancing the op stuff, well done!

Tue 16 Apr 2019 10:47 PM by Dariussdars

Fooj Fujiyama wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 10:43 PM
This is a good patch, I am glad the devs are balancing the op stuff, well done!

Albion tears rise above all else once again.

Weird how nothing changes in 20 years.

Tue 16 Apr 2019 10:52 PM by Stoertebecker

Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 9:28 PM
Sharky04 wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 9:19 PM
Lothalihan wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 7:51 PM
lol spiritmaster turned from unwanted into unplayable. pet dead 2 hits

Before the patch the sm pet was harder to kill than any caster.

After the patch, why would anyone bother playing a class where their pet is 2 shot, thus making it completely useless?

Because the class can still interupt and can deal cold damage like every other mid caster?
I took the damage of the caster pets always as a nice bonus, not as my main damage source.

But -40% is way too much. If someone spec that high in a line ( 46,48 or 50 dark ) he should get a benefit, no mattter what class.

Tue 16 Apr 2019 10:54 PM by Dariussdars

Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 10:52 PM
Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 9:28 PM
Sharky04 wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 9:19 PM
Before the patch the sm pet was harder to kill than any caster.

After the patch, why would anyone bother playing a class where their pet is 2 shot, thus making it completely useless?

Because the class can still interupt and can deal cold damage like every other mid caster?
I took the damage of the caster pets always as a nice bonus, not as my main damage source.

But -40% is way too much. If someone spec that high in a line ( 46,48 or 50 dark ) he should get a benefit, no mattter what class.

Was referencing the SM pet getting 2 shot, not BD pets.

Tue 16 Apr 2019 11:05 PM by Stoertebecker

Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 10:54 PM
Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 10:52 PM
Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 9:28 PM
After the patch, why would anyone bother playing a class where their pet is 2 shot, thus making it completely useless?

Because the class can still interupt and can deal cold damage like every other mid caster?
I took the damage of the caster pets always as a nice bonus, not as my main damage source.

But -40% is way too much. If someone spec that high in a line ( 46,48 or 50 dark ) he should get a benefit, no mattter what class.
Was referencing the SM pet getting 2 shot, not BD pets.

It isn`t much different with the bd commander, even the pet str/con buff won`t make him much stronger atm.

Tue 16 Apr 2019 11:13 PM by Dariussdars

Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 11:05 PM
Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 10:54 PM
Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 10:52 PM
Because the class can still interupt and can deal cold damage like every other mid caster?
I took the damage of the caster pets always as a nice bonus, not as my main damage source.

But -40% is way too much. If someone spec that high in a line ( 46,48 or 50 dark ) he should get a benefit, no mattter what class.
Was referencing the SM pet getting 2 shot, not BD pets.

It isn`t much different with the bd commander, even the pet str/con buff won`t make him much stronger atm.

Would be nice if we had the different pet types for commanders. Having the commander melee someone for 60 damage is hilarious.

Wed 17 Apr 2019 5:09 AM by AngelRose

Though I understand wanting to address the OP pets in this shard, nerfing the hunter is so disappointing. The pet was basically already useless. Hunter has the least melee damage. The weakest of the 6 stealther class...gets a nerf

I do see this is a nerf across the board and the hunter is collateral damage, but I sincerely hope the dev's see they just made a weak class even worse and have a plan for hunters.

Wed 17 Apr 2019 5:30 AM by Stoertebecker

Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 11:13 PM
Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 11:05 PM
Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 10:54 PM
Was referencing the SM pet getting 2 shot, not BD pets.

It isn`t much different with the bd commander, even the pet str/con buff won`t make him much stronger atm.

Would be nice if we had the different pet types for commanders. Having the commander melee someone for 60 damage is hilarious.

Tbh i don`t need a live like BD, but a demezz and formations would be nice.

Edit: This changes are not only rvr related like written in the servernews.

Wed 17 Apr 2019 5:50 AM by Lillebror

Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 11:13 PM
Would be nice if we had the different pet types for commanders. Having the commander melee someone for 60 damage is hilarious.

About same i hit the commander so we are even

Ps: Can understand your frustration

Wed 17 Apr 2019 10:37 AM by dansari

I'm really hoping this means that BDs will be getting a caster Commander in the dark line to offset the, in my opinion unnecessary, pet damage nerf which really only impacts midgard pets, the realm with the least amount of effective pet classes already. It would be quite nice if my main damage source wasn't compromised by a weak melee minion that's too hard to control around z axis objects. I guess there's always the solo suppression build instead. I'm also optimistic that Hunter will get some much needed attention, especially with this indirect nerf.

Edit: just read through the other pet post on this subforum where gruen outlined more pet class changes are coming. I expected as much and am personally not going to freak out just because the pet balance will be out of whack for a short while.

Wed 17 Apr 2019 11:57 AM by Stoertebecker

I see the next nerf coming if a large part of the former darkness bd`s ( mid and high rr ) switch to suppression.
You can count that on 2 fingers what will happen to solos

Wed 17 Apr 2019 1:25 PM by Sepplord

Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Apr 2019 11:57 AM
I see the next nerf coming if a large part of the former darkness bd`s ( mid and high rr ) switch to suppression.
You can count that on 2 fingers what will happen to solos

Supp spec is far weaker here than it was...but yeah, that probably wont stop the chronic whiners much

Wed 17 Apr 2019 2:06 PM by Stoertebecker

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Apr 2019 1:25 PM
Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Apr 2019 11:57 AM
I see the next nerf coming if a large part of the former darkness bd`s ( mid and high rr ) switch to suppression.
You can count that on 2 fingers what will happen to solos

Supp spec is far weaker here than it was...but yeah, that probably wont stop the chronic whiners much

Can be compensated with ra`s. And even with supp/dark spec still the best rupter in Midgard. Just a question if time until the whining starts.

Sat 20 Apr 2019 12:50 AM by relvinian

I have a 9L2 necro, tested same spec since beta, played same spec since beta.

My 50 pain necro spec uses all buffs and no absorb buff from sight.

I take a lot more dmg than before.

Sat 20 Apr 2019 1:00 AM by teiloh

dansari wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Apr 2019 10:37 AM
I'm really hoping this means that BDs will be getting a caster Commander in the dark line to offset the, in my opinion unnecessary, pet damage nerf which really only impacts midgard pets, the realm with the least amount of effective pet classes already. It would be quite nice if my main damage source wasn't compromised by a weak melee minion that's too hard to control around z axis objects. I guess there's always the solo suppression build instead. I'm also optimistic that Hunter will get some much needed attention, especially with this indirect nerf.

Edit: just read through the other pet post on this subforum where gruen outlined more pet class changes are coming. I expected as much and am personally not going to freak out just because the pet balance will be out of whack for a short while.

BD caster pets are stronger than they were on live. They outdps many red minstrel pets, each. Alb charm pets have been nerfed into the ground, many have no abilities and they do 25-80% less damage.

Sat 20 Apr 2019 4:00 AM by dansari

teiloh wrote: ↑
Sat 20 Apr 2019 1:00 AM
dansari wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Apr 2019 10:37 AM
I'm really hoping this means that BDs will be getting a caster Commander in the dark line to offset the, in my opinion unnecessary, pet damage nerf which really only impacts midgard pets, the realm with the least amount of effective pet classes already. It would be quite nice if my main damage source wasn't compromised by a weak melee minion that's too hard to control around z axis objects. I guess there's always the solo suppression build instead. I'm also optimistic that Hunter will get some much needed attention, especially with this indirect nerf.

Edit: just read through the other pet post on this subforum where gruen outlined more pet class changes are coming. I expected as much and am personally not going to freak out just because the pet balance will be out of whack for a short while.

BD caster pets are stronger than they were on live. They outdps many red minstrel pets, each. Alb charm pets have been nerfed into the ground, many have no abilities and they do 25-80% less damage.

Ok but.. BD is a pet class who doesn't really have a lot of tools besides their pets, which are easily cc'd and easily focused, whereas minst pets are just a by-product of their plethora of other tools, right?

Sat 20 Apr 2019 4:10 AM by teiloh

dansari wrote: ↑
Sat 20 Apr 2019 4:00 AM
teiloh wrote: ↑
Sat 20 Apr 2019 1:00 AM
dansari wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Apr 2019 10:37 AM
I'm really hoping this means that BDs will be getting a caster Commander in the dark line to offset the, in my opinion unnecessary, pet damage nerf which really only impacts midgard pets, the realm with the least amount of effective pet classes already. It would be quite nice if my main damage source wasn't compromised by a weak melee minion that's too hard to control around z axis objects. I guess there's always the solo suppression build instead. I'm also optimistic that Hunter will get some much needed attention, especially with this indirect nerf.

Edit: just read through the other pet post on this subforum where gruen outlined more pet class changes are coming. I expected as much and am personally not going to freak out just because the pet balance will be out of whack for a short while.

BD caster pets are stronger than they were on live. They outdps many red minstrel pets, each. Alb charm pets have been nerfed into the ground, many have no abilities and they do 25-80% less damage.

Ok but.. BD is a pet class who doesn't really have a lot of tools besides their pets, which are easily cc'd and easily focused, whereas minst pets are just a by-product of their plethora of other tools, right?

BD has superior DPS, range, interrupts, and arguably CC. Just wanted to be clear, BD pets are outperforming the 1.65 reference point and charmed pets are vastly underperforming.

BD Dark pet performance is sort of a grey area. They were way too weak on live.

Sat 20 Apr 2019 4:20 AM by dansari

teiloh wrote: ↑
Sat 20 Apr 2019 4:10 AM
BD has superior DPS, range, interrupts, and arguably CC. Just wanted to be clear, BD pets are outperforming the 1.65 reference point and charmed pets are vastly underperforming.

BD Dark pet performance is sort of a grey area. They were way too weak on live.

Ok well BD being a ranged dps mage I would hope its ranged damage output would be better than a chain, stealth, speed, support rogue. Arguably CC is quite a stretch unless you run disease pets, which will conversely reduce your aforementioned damage output.

If your point was that BD pets were custom changed to be better and minstrel pets were custom changed to be worse, I don't disagree, but fail to see the point other than balancing between realms

Sat 20 Apr 2019 4:24 AM by teiloh

dansari wrote: ↑
Sat 20 Apr 2019 4:20 AM
teiloh wrote: ↑
Sat 20 Apr 2019 4:10 AM
BD has superior DPS, range, interrupts, and arguably CC. Just wanted to be clear, BD pets are outperforming the 1.65 reference point and charmed pets are vastly underperforming.

BD Dark pet performance is sort of a grey area. They were way too weak on live.

Ok well BD being a ranged dps mage I would hope its ranged damage output would be better than a chain, stealth, speed, support rogue. Arguably CC is quite a stretch unless you run disease pets, which will conversely reduce your aforementioned damage output.

If your point was that BD pets were custom changed to be better and minstrel pets were custom changed to be worse, I don't disagree, but fail to see the point other than balancing between realms

The main point is, BD pets were not nerfed. They were just un-buffed midway to live levels of mess. If we are making an argument we have to go by the numbers. So we'd need to see warmage DPS, etc, and decide whether it's too low, just right, or too high on its own merits.

Sat 20 Apr 2019 4:28 AM by dansari

teiloh wrote: ↑
Sat 20 Apr 2019 4:24 AM
The main point is, BD pets were not nerfed. They were just un-buffed midway to live levels of mess. If we are making an argument we have to go by the numbers. So we'd need to see warmage DPS, etc, and decide whether it's too low, just right, or too high on its own merits.

I mean, they were nerfed. Just because it's been "overbuffed" for 4 months in a production state on Phoenix when compared to other, irrelevant production states of DAOC (live) doesn't mean it's not a nerf.

Sat 20 Apr 2019 4:34 AM by teiloh

dansari wrote: ↑
Sat 20 Apr 2019 4:28 AM
I mean, they were nerfed. Just because it's been "overbuffed" for 4 months in a production state on Phoenix when compared to other, irrelevant production states of DAOC (live) doesn't mean it's not a nerf.

It's not irrelevant, though. 1.65 is taken as the reference point. Almost everything is set to 1.65 levels unless the Devs specifically say otherwise.

Dark BDs are in an important grey area because their original bugged state was intolerably weak. This "bugged" version, with higher DPS, that was created by Dev experimentation and some tweaking when references were missing is much closer to balanced.

But how much higher it should be has never really been discussed.

Sat 20 Apr 2019 4:41 AM by dansari

teiloh wrote: ↑
Sat 20 Apr 2019 4:34 AM
dansari wrote: ↑
Sat 20 Apr 2019 4:28 AM
I mean, they were nerfed. Just because it's been "overbuffed" for 4 months in a production state on Phoenix when compared to other, irrelevant production states of DAOC (live) doesn't mean it's not a nerf.

It's not irrelevant, though. 1.65 is taken as the reference point. Almost everything is set to 1.65 levels unless the Devs specifically say otherwise.

Dark BDs are in an important grey area because their original bugged state was intolerably weak. This "bugged" version, with higher DPS, that was created by Dev experimentation and some tweaking when references were missing is much closer to balanced.

But how much higher it should be has never really been discussed.

Yes yes, I "reference" this patch, and now I do what needs to be done to make each realm balanced. Live-state is not relevant to Phoenix-state after Phoenix officially went live, imo.

Sat 20 Apr 2019 11:09 AM by jhaerik

jelzinga_EU wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 9:16 AM
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 7:23 AM
The patch yesterday accidentally already included the caster part of the pet fixes that are planned for today or tomorrow. Aside from the damage bonus/reduction per level difference that affects everything, including player, the patch yesterday apparently also included using the actual pet level instead of the caster level. So before yesterday your pets nuked as if they were level 50 wrt resist rate and variance and had no damage penalty against level 50. This affected all pets, except necro and animist bomber, those 2 are supposed to use the owner level for spell resist and damage.

While it wasn't exactly supposed to be applied yesterday already, and hence wasn't mentioned in the patch notes, it's intended and the same will happen either today or tomorrow for the melee outgoing and incoming part. This will affect all pets, including necro pet.

So if I understand you correctly there is a 25%-30% damage-nerf to Darkness caster-pets and that is intended ? I think BD is the only class who can max use green caster-pets. This nerf will hit BD much harder than anyone else because their caster-pets are (at least) blue or higher. Since BD caster nuke-pets are limited to greencon max (@ 45 Darkness-spec) I do feel this change is not thought-trough properly.

In light of recent changes to Summoning SM getting nerfed too I think a lot of people who play Midgard will feel this nerf as another slap in the face for their farming capabilities, especially when you compare it with necromancer or animist,

They are also buffing the spell delves for Cabby/Enchanter pets in the same patch.

Yep I'm done with this server. I can't stand all the dev mid hate. PEACE.

Sat 20 Apr 2019 4:18 PM by teiloh

jhaerik wrote: ↑
Sat 20 Apr 2019 11:09 AM
jelzinga_EU wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 9:16 AM
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 7:23 AM
The patch yesterday accidentally already included the caster part of the pet fixes that are planned for today or tomorrow. Aside from the damage bonus/reduction per level difference that affects everything, including player, the patch yesterday apparently also included using the actual pet level instead of the caster level. So before yesterday your pets nuked as if they were level 50 wrt resist rate and variance and had no damage penalty against level 50. This affected all pets, except necro and animist bomber, those 2 are supposed to use the owner level for spell resist and damage.

While it wasn't exactly supposed to be applied yesterday already, and hence wasn't mentioned in the patch notes, it's intended and the same will happen either today or tomorrow for the melee outgoing and incoming part. This will affect all pets, including necro pet.

So if I understand you correctly there is a 25%-30% damage-nerf to Darkness caster-pets and that is intended ? I think BD is the only class who can max use green caster-pets. This nerf will hit BD much harder than anyone else because their caster-pets are (at least) blue or higher. Since BD caster nuke-pets are limited to greencon max (@ 45 Darkness-spec) I do feel this change is not thought-trough properly.

In light of recent changes to Summoning SM getting nerfed too I think a lot of people who play Midgard will feel this nerf as another slap in the face for their farming capabilities, especially when you compare it with necromancer or animist,

They are also buffing the spell delves for Cabby/Enchanter pets in the same patch.

Yep I'm done with this server. I can't stand all the dev mid hate. PEACE.

That's because Enchanter pets are supposed to be hitting for 180-240 base at this patch level. BD Dark Pets are still doing more than twice their live DPS even after the nerf.

Midgard has literally never been nerfed on this server while Alb has been nerfed dozens of times.

Sun 21 Apr 2019 12:55 AM by TsunamiSurprise

Just wondering, when big changes like this happen- Mythic used to give us a full respec.

Did BDs receive one?

Sun 21 Apr 2019 6:08 AM by dansari

TsunamiSurprise wrote: ↑
Sun 21 Apr 2019 12:55 AM
Just wondering, when big changes like this happen- Mythic used to give us a full respec.

Did BDs receive one?

They're not done with updating pets afaik. Doesn't make sense to gift every BD with a respec.. feathers are easy to come by and we can respec at will if need be.

Sun 21 Apr 2019 6:50 AM by relvinian

At some point, due to the several sweeping changes, it might be reasonable to hang out a respec, maybe a full and an ra to everyone.

Sun 21 Apr 2019 1:30 PM by dbeattie71

jhaerik wrote: ↑
Sat 20 Apr 2019 11:09 AM
jelzinga_EU wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 9:16 AM
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 7:23 AM
The patch yesterday accidentally already included the caster part of the pet fixes that are planned for today or tomorrow. Aside from the damage bonus/reduction per level difference that affects everything, including player, the patch yesterday apparently also included using the actual pet level instead of the caster level. So before yesterday your pets nuked as if they were level 50 wrt resist rate and variance and had no damage penalty against level 50. This affected all pets, except necro and animist bomber, those 2 are supposed to use the owner level for spell resist and damage.

While it wasn't exactly supposed to be applied yesterday already, and hence wasn't mentioned in the patch notes, it's intended and the same will happen either today or tomorrow for the melee outgoing and incoming part. This will affect all pets, including necro pet.

So if I understand you correctly there is a 25%-30% damage-nerf to Darkness caster-pets and that is intended ? I think BD is the only class who can max use green caster-pets. This nerf will hit BD much harder than anyone else because their caster-pets are (at least) blue or higher. Since BD caster nuke-pets are limited to greencon max (@ 45 Darkness-spec) I do feel this change is not thought-trough properly.

In light of recent changes to Summoning SM getting nerfed too I think a lot of people who play Midgard will feel this nerf as another slap in the face for their farming capabilities, especially when you compare it with necromancer or animist,

They are also buffing the spell delves for Cabby/Enchanter pets in the same patch.

Yep I'm done with this server. I can't stand all the dev mid hate. PEACE.

Any free stuff by chance?

Sun 21 Apr 2019 11:28 PM by Sharky04

Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 9:28 PM
Sharky04 wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 9:19 PM
Lothalihan wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 7:51 PM
lol spiritmaster turned from unwanted into unplayable. pet dead 2 hits

Before the patch the sm pet was harder to kill than any caster.

After the patch, why would anyone bother playing a class where their pet is 2 shot, thus making it completely useless?

You mean like 95% of all druid pets?

Sun 21 Apr 2019 11:35 PM by Sharky04

teiloh wrote: ↑
Sat 20 Apr 2019 4:34 AM
dansari wrote: ↑
Sat 20 Apr 2019 4:28 AM
I mean, they were nerfed. Just because it's been "overbuffed" for 4 months in a production state on Phoenix when compared to other, irrelevant production states of DAOC (live) doesn't mean it's not a nerf.

It's not irrelevant, though. 1.65 is taken as the reference point. Almost everything is set to 1.65 levels unless the Devs specifically say otherwise.

Dark BDs are in an important grey area because their original bugged state was intolerably weak. This "bugged" version, with higher DPS, that was created by Dev experimentation and some tweaking when references were missing is much closer to balanced.

But how much higher it should be has never really been discussed.

If BDs were balanced they would not be the most played class, and basically the only mid caster seen in rvr. Original 1.65 you could see spiritmasters and runemasters participating in pvp.

Sun 21 Apr 2019 11:46 PM by Sharky04

jhaerik wrote: ↑
Sat 20 Apr 2019 11:09 AM
Yep I'm done with this server. I can't stand all the dev mid hate. PEACE.

What are you talking about? Midgard is dominating this server since months. People die instantly to savage melee trains. Hibernia has no old school caster groups since the major nerfs to pbae and Moc. In original 1.65 Midgards Rr5 RA's were basically useless with the exception of Pr, compared to Hib and Alb. Not one Skald had points in his Rr5 Ra, but every Minstrel had SOS and all bards AM. Group purge, BOF and TWF were insanely overpowered. On Phoenix Midgard has access to the nice RA's without toning down the insane Savage damage.

Mon 22 Apr 2019 4:38 AM by Dariussdars

Sharky04 wrote: ↑
Sun 21 Apr 2019 11:28 PM
Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 9:28 PM
Sharky04 wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 9:19 PM
Before the patch the sm pet was harder to kill than any caster.

After the patch, why would anyone bother playing a class where their pet is 2 shot, thus making it completely useless?
You mean like 95% of all druid pets?

Yeah, comparing a Druid to a BD, real similar class. Does a Druid rely on his pet to do anything besides interrupt?

Mon 22 Apr 2019 4:40 AM by Dariussdars

Sharky04 wrote: ↑
Sun 21 Apr 2019 11:35 PM
teiloh wrote: ↑
Sat 20 Apr 2019 4:34 AM
dansari wrote: ↑
Sat 20 Apr 2019 4:28 AM
I mean, they were nerfed. Just because it's been "overbuffed" for 4 months in a production state on Phoenix when compared to other, irrelevant production states of DAOC (live) doesn't mean it's not a nerf.

It's not irrelevant, though. 1.65 is taken as the reference point. Almost everything is set to 1.65 levels unless the Devs specifically say otherwise.

Dark BDs are in an important grey area because their original bugged state was intolerably weak. This "bugged" version, with higher DPS, that was created by Dev experimentation and some tweaking when references were missing is much closer to balanced.

But how much higher it should be has never really been discussed.
If BDs were balanced they would not be the most played class, and basically the only mid caster seen in rvr. Original 1.65 you could see spiritmasters and runemasters participating in pvp.

Original 1.65 everyone had buff bots genius. SM and RM are extremely weak without full buffs, whereas a BD used to be able to rely on their caster pets to help with their DPS. Most of the BDs you see running around in RvR are solo. What point did you think you were making?

Mon 22 Apr 2019 4:41 AM by Dariussdars

Sharky04 wrote: ↑
Sun 21 Apr 2019 11:46 PM
jhaerik wrote: ↑
Sat 20 Apr 2019 11:09 AM
Yep I'm done with this server. I can't stand all the dev mid hate. PEACE.

What are you talking about? Midgard is dominating this server since months. People die instantly to savage melee trains. Hibernia has no old school caster groups since the major nerfs to pbae and Moc. In original 1.65 Midgards Rr5 RA's were basically useless with the exception of Pr, compared to Hib and Alb. Not one Skald had points in his Rr5 Ra, but every Minstrel had SOS and all bards AM. Group purge, BOF and TWF were insanely overpowered. On Phoenix Midgard has access to the nice RA's without toning down the insane Savage damage.

Um, Hibernia is dominating in RvR the past few weeks. Do you even play on Phoenix?

Mon 22 Apr 2019 5:05 AM by Leandrys

Lol sorry, "hibernia dominating".

Hibernia has Fernando and Pilzpower raiding keeps by night without any real resistance, then when europa wakes up we lose them all. Because we can't compete with numbers.

Mon 22 Apr 2019 11:40 AM by HtGeist

Leandrys wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 5:05 AM
Lol sorry, "hibernia dominating".

Hibernia has Fernando and Pilzpower raiding keeps by night without any real resistance, then when europa wakes up we lose them all. Because we can't compete with numbers.

Are you blind? 10 hibs is all it takes to camp each pk and milegate been 3 days mid 2 days alb..camped and overrun by lagcast group and the other "8" man..plus the usual sneakfest..30 hibs is what it takes to dominate the task zone it seems,devs being extreemly reluctant to sort out that amnesia bullshit and nerf anything hib,while mid and alb gets "fixed" in matter of hours...hard to shake the feeling devs plays hibs. hence they get to keep the pwnsauce. imbalanced crap.

Mon 22 Apr 2019 1:48 PM by Leandrys

Hmm ok, yes, you're right, we totally dominate RvR. Definitively. Ubernia, etc... I'm just blind.

Mon 22 Apr 2019 6:04 PM by teiloh

Yeah mid is overpop most of the time.

Mon 22 Apr 2019 8:43 PM by Dariussdars

teiloh wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 6:04 PM
Yeah mid is overpop most of the time.

Yep, having 50 more players than Alb or Hib does is a huge advantage.

Wed 24 Apr 2019 10:32 AM by Sharky04

Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 4:38 AM
Sharky04 wrote: ↑
Sun 21 Apr 2019 11:28 PM
Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 9:28 PM
After the patch, why would anyone bother playing a class where their pet is 2 shot, thus making it completely useless?
You mean like 95% of all druid pets?
Yeah, comparing a Druid to a BD, real similar class. Does a Druid rely on his pet to do anything besides interrupt?

Why should Bonedancer pets not be used to interrupt? Even without any pets BD would be a strong class, because of the instant life leech.

Wed 24 Apr 2019 10:49 AM by Valaraukar

Sharky04 wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 10:32 AM
Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 4:38 AM
Sharky04 wrote: ↑
Sun 21 Apr 2019 11:28 PM
You mean like 95% of all druid pets?
Yeah, comparing a Druid to a BD, real similar class. Does a Druid rely on his pet to do anything besides interrupt?

Why should Bonedancer pets not be used to interrupt? Even without any pets BD would be a strong class, because of the instant life leech.

The instant lifetap is available only for FULL supp BD, which has only healers pets that won't interrupt anyone, and often stay mezzed for about 1 minute and so they won't do anything at all 😂
In my opinion the BD is Heavily nerfed here, the pets are almost useless. I don't care about solo BD, I am not a solo player, I'm talking about large scale RvR where any other mid caster can do a lot more damage, has more utility and has almost the same survivability because of the pets getting mezzed all the time and so not a single heal received from them.
I'm going to respec full darkness so I can use my BD to farm gold and drops (hoping that they will not nerf it also for PVE) and use an healer in RvR.
If I had known this before I would never have done a BD, but a SM or RM since the pets are now quite useless.

Wed 24 Apr 2019 12:07 PM by keen

cast time is too fast that is why warmages do too much dmg. cast times should be 3s and 4s, they are 2.5sec and 3sec on phoenix.

Wed 24 Apr 2019 8:30 PM by Dariussdars

Sharky04 wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 10:32 AM
Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 4:38 AM
Sharky04 wrote: ↑
Sun 21 Apr 2019 11:28 PM
You mean like 95% of all druid pets?
Yeah, comparing a Druid to a BD, real similar class. Does a Druid rely on his pet to do anything besides interrupt?

Why should Bonedancer pets not be used to interrupt? Even without any pets BD would be a strong class, because of the instant life leech.

Dark pets are supposed to be for damage, not just interrupt. That's like nerfing shroom damage by 40%, and strictly using them for interrupts.

Thu 25 Apr 2019 7:47 AM by Salidry

I can understand that a nerf is sometimes hard to take, but BD didnt become weak because of it. It still has great potential in solo, smallman or 8man

Thu 25 Apr 2019 11:54 AM by Stoertebecker

Valaraukar wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 10:49 AM
Sharky04 wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 10:32 AM
Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 4:38 AM
Yeah, comparing a Druid to a BD, real similar class. Does a Druid rely on his pet to do anything besides interrupt?

Why should Bonedancer pets not be used to interrupt? Even without any pets BD would be a strong class, because of the instant life leech.

I'm going to respec full darkness so I can use my BD to farm gold and drops (hoping that they will not nerf it also for PVE) and use an healer in RvR.

It`s nerfed in pve the same way and the same amount. Go Bonearmy instead.

Thu 25 Apr 2019 12:00 PM by Stoertebecker

Sharky04 wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 10:32 AM
Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 4:38 AM
Sharky04 wrote: ↑
Sun 21 Apr 2019 11:28 PM
You mean like 95% of all druid pets?
Yeah, comparing a Druid to a BD, real similar class. Does a Druid rely on his pet to do anything besides interrupt?

Why should Bonedancer pets not be used to interrupt? Even without any pets BD would be a strong class, because of the instant life leech.

Without pets the bd would be a weak version of a Spiritmaster. Ever seen a dark SM lifeleeching with moc on 1,5 castspeed?
There it goes...your argument. Farewell.

Thu 25 Apr 2019 6:37 PM by Valaraukar

Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Thu 25 Apr 2019 11:54 AM
Valaraukar wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 10:49 AM
Sharky04 wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 10:32 AM
Why should Bonedancer pets not be used to interrupt? Even without any pets BD would be a strong class, because of the instant life leech.

I'm going to respec full darkness so I can use my BD to farm gold and drops (hoping that they will not nerf it also for PVE) and use an healer in RvR.

It`s nerfed in pve the same way and the same amount. Go Bonearmy instead.

I've already respecced with 48 dark and I've tried the 2 bone archmages on red/orange drakulv. They hit for about 200 damages each, with crit it arrives to about 400 Dd. Don't know if against higher mobs they will become useless but for now they don't seem nerfed in PVE, i don't care about rvr as long as the pets can remain mezzed for more than 1 minutes. In rvr they are quite useless, unless you go solo but I don't play daoc to play solo 😁

Fri 26 Apr 2019 8:30 AM by Stoertebecker

Valaraukar wrote: ↑
Thu 25 Apr 2019 6:37 PM
Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Thu 25 Apr 2019 11:54 AM
Valaraukar wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 10:49 AM
I'm going to respec full darkness so I can use my BD to farm gold and drops (hoping that they will not nerf it also for PVE) and use an healer in RvR.

It`s nerfed in pve the same way and the same amount. Go Bonearmy instead.

I've already respecced with 48 dark and I've tried the 2 bone archmages on red/orange drakulv. They hit for about 200 damages each, with crit it arrives to about 400 Dd. Don't know if against higher mobs they will become useless but for now they don't seem nerfed in PVE, i don't care about rvr as long as the pets can remain mezzed for more than 1 minutes. In rvr they are quite useless, unless you go solo but I don't play daoc to play solo 😁

Before or after the nerf?
My 1st BD was Dark the whole time and max damage on ora/red con mobs was ~280 after debuff, and with all the Drakulv`s i have killed there wasn`t any pet-cast that hits critical. The Commander was hitting the same mobs for 130-150 max.
Now... maybe 2h ago, the same mobs: Sub-pets for max 180 after debuff, Commander for max 70. No nerf, eh?

If you think the pets are useless in rvr and u don`t play DAoC for solo, ever tried asking your friendly healer to demezz your Commander?

Fri 26 Apr 2019 8:40 AM by Menfany

There seriously player who say BD is weak because of this?
..a pet class with access to TWF and Maelstrom will allways find a way to make RP..

..and there is only one truth about "weak and strong" classes... /serverinfo

Fri 26 Apr 2019 10:09 AM by Stoertebecker

Menfany wrote: ↑
Fri 26 Apr 2019 8:40 AM
There seriously player who say BD is weak because of this?
..a pet class with access to TWF and Maelstrom will allways find a way to make RP..

..and there is only one truth about "weak and strong" classes... /serverinfo

There may be some (or more) players that wanna play a BD as what he was designed for, not as a twf/maelstrom bot.

I´d say that a twf nerf is already on the horizon.

Fri 26 Apr 2019 12:44 PM by Valaraukar

Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Fri 26 Apr 2019 8:30 AM
Valaraukar wrote: ↑
Thu 25 Apr 2019 6:37 PM
Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Thu 25 Apr 2019 11:54 AM
It`s nerfed in pve the same way and the same amount. Go Bonearmy instead.

I've already respecced with 48 dark and I've tried the 2 bone archmages on red/orange drakulv. They hit for about 200 damages each, with crit it arrives to about 400 Dd. Don't know if against higher mobs they will become useless but for now they don't seem nerfed in PVE, i don't care about rvr as long as the pets can remain mezzed for more than 1 minutes. In rvr they are quite useless, unless you go solo but I don't play daoc to play solo 😁

Before or after the nerf?
My 1st BD was Dark the whole time and max damage on ora/red con mobs was ~280 after debuff, and with all the Drakulv`s i have killed there wasn`t any pet-cast that hits critical. The Commander was hitting the same mobs for 130-150 max.
Now... maybe 2h ago, the same mobs: Sub-pets for max 180 after debuff, Commander for max 70. No nerf, eh?

If you think the pets are useless in rvr and u don`t play DAoC for solo, ever tried asking your friendly healer to demezz your Commander?

After the nerf, maybe 2 days ago. If I can I'll try again today and have the precise amount, for sure the melee damage of the commander is ridiculous but it just need to take aggro on him.
And concerning commander demezz, yes sure I ask for it but it's not easy to do while in combat (the healer must target it manually or use assist on me while I have it targeted), it can be done after the combat but.... Not so useful, uh? 😁

Fri 26 Apr 2019 1:38 PM by Vennedra

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 8:25 AM
Lillebror wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 8:02 AM
Atleast do as Leroy proposted in his tracker proposal and make them hit equal on the charmer and the opponent.
As is, minstrel get hit harder than the opponents if he releases pet.
red and grape pets is devestating but just in its colour if charmed.

That is likely what we will go with

@gruenesschaf : Is there any planned update ? Thanks for the answer and the great job on the server btw