Balance Feathers for the three dungeons

From what a lot of people are saying is galadoria gives less feathers, and is taking far longer to complete compared to the mid/alb versions.
is this true or are the dungeons balanced in terms of time and reward ?

Sun 14 Apr 2019 4:54 PM by Dominus

it is true.

Sun 14 Apr 2019 5:33 PM by Kampfar

I read somewhere that hib has most afk-ppl at epicraid. Maybe that is a reason why it take longer?

Sun 14 Apr 2019 8:21 PM by Luluko

not sure how much hib gets but hib usually has some nice feather bonus and should have more than mids, mids without bonus get like 11400 feathers per run

Mon 15 Apr 2019 7:27 AM by Sepplord

a thing to consider is that the times that get thrown around are often not representative of the actual times that an activity takes.

The record-raid (Afaik) in TG is 52minutes from start to finish. That excludes grouping / running to dungeon / buffing inside and also rolling/distribution of loot.
Yeah, if you have a fullgroup logged at the entrance of TG (so you don't need to worry about a group slot) and can log in right when the zerg starts the first pull...and log out after the last mob dies (before lootrolls happen) then you can do it in about an hour.

could have done...since cercei stopped doing the raids i have heard that the raids take far longer now, so having efficient lead AND people actually listening to the lead also plays a huge role in how long it takes to clear the dungeons

In theory you can get 9k+ feathers in darkspire in 30minutes....but using that as baseline is just not representative for everyone since most people will not be able to do it that fast...not even close.

Mon 15 Apr 2019 8:06 AM by Auberne

TG is consistantly around 1h for 11-12k feathers.

Mon 15 Apr 2019 8:44 AM by Sepplord

Auberne wrote: ↑
Mon 15 Apr 2019 8:06 AM
TG is consistantly around 1h for 11-12k feathers.

q.e.d.

Mon 15 Apr 2019 1:37 PM by FFpheonix

It would be nice for all the Raid Dungeons to drop an average of 15,000-20,000 feathers. It seems odd to require Raid Dungeons to be farmed repeatedly on a 5 hour timer, when the end goal is to purchase items for 15,000-20,000 feathers each.

Mon 15 Apr 2019 1:42 PM by Ardri

If kloog ever stops doing galla raids, hib is f'd.

Mon 15 Apr 2019 3:13 PM by Bicstor

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Mon 15 Apr 2019 7:27 AM
could have done...since cercei stopped doing the raids i have heard that the raids take far longer now, so having efficient lead AND people actually listening to the lead also plays a huge role in how long it takes to clear the dungeons

The reason Cercei raids are so quick is because the battlegroup is usually close to 400. All the raids I have been on since Cercei took a break have far less. Most have been around the 160 mark with a couple having 220ish BG members. That makes a big diffference to the rate in which mobs are killed.
During the non Cercei raids I have been on , the BG leader/pullers have usually pulled at a steady rate taking into account the condition/state of BG when needed. Its not the efficency of the BG leader that slows down the raid its the size of the BG, it takes much longer to kill the named/boss mobs. They do a lot more damage to the BG as a whole, especially if one is running amok among the support/caster classes.
The three Raid/BG leaders that ive done raids with, who have stepped up to the mark since Cercei stopped, Viize,Sonder, Anastatia have all done good work and I am thankful to them.

Mon 15 Apr 2019 3:33 PM by Citian

"Rate" is pretty much the only operative word here and besides differences in AoE/mob design there's really nothing to consider between the dungeons.

Tldr : 400hp > 100hp over similar distance with similar obstacles

The real question being posed here, I think, is asking for equitable and soloable feather content.

Tue 16 Apr 2019 6:16 AM by Sepplord

another thing to consider would be that not only is the amount of participators decreasing, the people that don't go anymore are (maybe) rather the top-end players that can farm darkspire instead now/want to do that instead when they need feathers

i know quite a few that have joined raids despite having 100k-200k feathers stocked, but we still went because we all knew it won't always be that fast. Now the break let us all pause and with darkspire available the urge to stack as many feathers as possible before raids die down isn't THAT important anymore

Tue 23 Apr 2019 3:36 PM by Auberne

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Mon 15 Apr 2019 8:44 AM

Auberne wrote: ↑
Mon 15 Apr 2019 8:06 AM
TG is consistantly around 1h for 11-12k feathers.

q.e.d.

It is when Cercei runs it.

Wed 24 Apr 2019 6:11 AM by Sepplord

Auberne wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Apr 2019 3:36 PM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Mon 15 Apr 2019 8:44 AM

Auberne wrote: ↑
Mon 15 Apr 2019 8:06 AM
TG is consistantly around 1h for 11-12k feathers.

q.e.d.

It is when Cercei runs it.

No, it isn't. The time from first mob-contact to last bosskill is slightly under an hour. building groups, running to the dungeon, buffing inside, waiting for the raid to actually start, waiting after lastboss for roll, etc.... is NOT done within an hour. If you have a set-group logged in TG and you are in voice with someone who can tell you exactly when to log in, buff up and go. And you forfeit loot and simply log out at the end...then you are done in an hour. And before you can do that again you all have to move from the end of the dungeon back to the entrance to log there...also takes another few minutes

Every other claim is simply not representing the timefactor correctly

Wed 24 Apr 2019 6:27 AM by Halma

I think no one counts grouping and buffing as raid time. Galla is - if quick - 90 minutes. Yesterday we killed the first mob at 8.10pm and the last boss died at about 9.50pm. 11.5k feathers.

Wed 24 Apr 2019 6:33 AM by Dindelion

It seems to be overlooked but this is quite a problem on hib. I've not done on mid yet but, I've played both alb and hib :
On Hib, galla is atrocious and so much more boring than Sidi (alb). It seems much harder, it is much longer, and rewards less. It'sat least 2H long for at most 11k feathers, while on alb it's more 1H - 1H15 for 15k. The run is much more enjoyable and smooth on alb overall.

It's even worse for the global economy on Hib, where prices on everything are completely fucked up, feathers included, so it doesn't help at all. Basically almost everything is set as if everyone had an animist alt, so for those who don't, everything is unbearably expensive, even basic pots. But I digress, this point (hib economy) might deserve its own thread (or not, there's probably no solution), but having feathers a bit more easily there would definitely help those who don't play a farming class and still needs money / feathers for temp / pots / charges etc.

Wed 24 Apr 2019 6:40 AM by Sepplord

Halma wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 6:27 AM
I think no one counts grouping and buffing as raid time. Galla is - if quick - 90 minutes. Yesterday we killed the first mob at 8.10pm and the last boss died at about 9.50pm. 11.5k feathers.

Not as "raid time" to compare raiding speeds....that makes sense

but when talking about the time solo-raidjoiners have to spent to participate and get X amount of feathers it is crucial not to just look at the "raid-time" from first to last mob. I was in discord with Cercei and had the luxury to have a spot in the maingrp, so i could show up a bit late. And still on average spent 2hours in there.

Comparing raidtime 90minutes to 60minutes is a very different comparison to "average participation time" of 2,5hours to 2hours, or even 3h to 2,5hours. The difference in killtime looses weight if you include other timefactors into the comparison.

Noone would tell people intrested in building a Darkspire group that the dungeon takes 30minutes and can be chainpulled through. Yeah, the best groups so far have done that...but it is just as representetive for the dungeon as claiming TG takes only 1hour

Wed 24 Apr 2019 6:46 AM by Ceen

Did like 5 raids in the beginning and never needed to make a step into PvE ever since, what are you guys complaining about.

Wed 24 Apr 2019 7:12 AM by Sepplord

Ceen wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 6:46 AM
Did like 5 raids in the beginning and never needed to make a step into PvE ever since, what are you guys complaining about.

You must be a really easy to temp class then, and are not utilizing charge-items, correct?
My SB has spent more than 5raids worth of feathers on mainhand-weapons alone. About 100k on additional tempitems/charges, farmed a few charge-items in malmohus myself (also PvE) and another 20k for the legioncharge item

Not every class can get a decent temp with 50UT accessories and 99% crafted armor

Wed 24 Apr 2019 7:46 AM by Ceen

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 7:12 AM
Ceen wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 6:46 AM
Did like 5 raids in the beginning and never needed to make a step into PvE ever since, what are you guys complaining about.

You must be a really easy to temp class then, and are not utilizing charge-items, correct?
My SB has spent more than 5raids worth of feathers on mainhand-weapons alone. About 100k on additional tempitems/charges, farmed a few charge-items in malmohus myself (also PvE) and another 20k for the legioncharge item

Not every class can get a decent temp with 50UT accessories and 99% crafted armor

Imo it's the other way around, almost every group char can get a decent 99% crafted armor low feather template. It's only solos who need to invest a lot more feathers

Wed 24 Apr 2019 7:58 AM by Sepplord

Ceen wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 7:46 AM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 7:12 AM
Ceen wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 6:46 AM
Did like 5 raids in the beginning and never needed to make a step into PvE ever since, what are you guys complaining about.

You must be a really easy to temp class then, and are not utilizing charge-items, correct?
My SB has spent more than 5raids worth of feathers on mainhand-weapons alone. About 100k on additional tempitems/charges, farmed a few charge-items in malmohus myself (also PvE) and another 20k for the legioncharge item

Not every class can get a decent temp with 50UT accessories and 99% crafted armor
Imo it's the other way around, almost every group char can get a decent 99% crafted armor low feather template. It's only solos who need to invest a lot more feathers

Skalds/thanes are very hard to temp too. And yeah not every char is as bad as assassins or melee/caster hybrids....but 5epicraids do not cover all PvE on average for most people.
5Epicraids are 60-65k feathers, and i am being generous with that. TG Vest = 20k, Legionchargeitem=20k (at least the healcharge should be in everyones pocket, though especially the easy to temp casters should probably also get the manacharge), Armorprocs = 5k. That leaves you with 15k-20k feathers for a single high UT featheritem to complement your temp. You must also be character that can get his armor crafted + SCed AND buy a few ROGs with the plats you farmed on your way to level50. You won't be getting a good ROG from 5raids on average.

That said, just as a reminder, i am not whining about to few feathers...but the claim that you only need 5raids ever and don't have to do any PvE besides is simply not true for the average user.

Wed 24 Apr 2019 7:59 AM by Lillebror

Total bs that you need Epic dungeon swords to compete.

Wed 24 Apr 2019 8:04 AM by Lillebror

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 7:58 AM
Ceen wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 7:46 AM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 7:12 AM
You must be a really easy to temp class then, and are not utilizing charge-items, correct?
My SB has spent more than 5raids worth of feathers on mainhand-weapons alone. About 100k on additional tempitems/charges, farmed a few charge-items in malmohus myself (also PvE) and another 20k for the legioncharge item

Not every class can get a decent temp with 50UT accessories and 99% crafted armor
Imo it's the other way around, almost every group char can get a decent 99% crafted armor low feather template. It's only solos who need to invest a lot more feathers

Skalds/thanes are very hard to temp too. And yeah not every char is as bad as assassins or melee/caster hybrids....but 5epicraids do not cover all PvE on average for most people.
5Epicraids are 60-65k feathers, and i am being generous with that. TG Vest = 20k, Legionchargeitem=20k (at least the healcharge should be in everyones pocket, though especially the easy to temp casters should probably also get the manacharge), Armorprocs = 5k. That leaves you with 15k-20k feathers for a single high UT featheritem to complement your temp. You must also be character that can get his armor crafted + SCed AND buy a few ROGs with the plats you farmed on your way to level50. You won't be getting a good ROG from 5raids on average.

That said, just as a reminder, i am not whining about to few feathers...but the claim that you only need 5raids ever and don't have to do any PvE besides is simply not true for the average user.

Agree here, you need the vest, legion heal, and money to buy procs, i often add one Dragon ring for utility and charge. Makeing a lgm crafter is not needed at all, just do all crafts to 3-400 and secondarys and you can salvage and hinge all you need at the net cost of 300g and 2hours «work»

Wed 24 Apr 2019 8:33 AM by Sepplord

Lillebror wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 8:04 AM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 7:58 AM
Ceen wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 7:46 AM
Imo it's the other way around, almost every group char can get a decent 99% crafted armor low feather template. It's only solos who need to invest a lot more feathers

Skalds/thanes are very hard to temp too. And yeah not every char is as bad as assassins or melee/caster hybrids....but 5epicraids do not cover all PvE on average for most people.
5Epicraids are 60-65k feathers, and i am being generous with that. TG Vest = 20k, Legionchargeitem=20k (at least the healcharge should be in everyones pocket, though especially the easy to temp casters should probably also get the manacharge), Armorprocs = 5k. That leaves you with 15k-20k feathers for a single high UT featheritem to complement your temp. You must also be character that can get his armor crafted + SCed AND buy a few ROGs with the plats you farmed on your way to level50. You won't be getting a good ROG from 5raids on average.

That said, just as a reminder, i am not whining about to few feathers...but the claim that you only need 5raids ever and don't have to do any PvE besides is simply not true for the average user.

Agree here, you need the vest, legion heal, and money to buy procs, i often add one Dragon ring for utility and charge. Makeing a lgm crafter is not needed at all, just do all crafts to 3-400 and secondarys and you can salvage and hinge all you need at the net cost of 300g and 2hours «work»

Yeah i meant paying for a crafter, not maxing it yourself. But in general we agree. Salvaging and Hinging also requires additional PvE so you have stuff to slavage/hinge, and salvaging/hinging itself would also fall into PvE imo. In theory you can buy everything from other players and never need to step into an epic dungeon at all...but you will have to spent time in PvE otherwise for that route.