Shadowblade RVR/PVE

Started 18 Apr 2019
by Thyestefles
in Midgard
Looking for Shadowblade RVR and PVE spec and why they are the best.
Thu 18 Apr 2019 11:49 PM by Mavella
Leveling/PvE

Leftaxe to level, axe/env to level with + skills. Use Leftaxe styles. Use dot poison as a damage add. Enervate increases your damage to mobs. Pull with throwing daggers. When you get level 34 make sure you have axe to 34 so you get the evade stun chain then follow up with rear LA styles after the stun. This is bridge till you get 39 LA and frost gaze which does the same thing. Get ROG chest/pants with heal procs and weapons with lifetap procs. Use a slow mainhand and fast offhand for weapons. If you have money spend it on pots post level 30 as you'll be leveling solo a lot. I also leveled up in frontiers as the tinders provide a nice damage add. You'll be soloing a lot and this will help keep you sane.

RvR
I'm a proponent for crit blade specs at low RR. The styles hit hard especially the evade chain and landing a full perf chain on a visible can score kills fast allowing you to get back into stealth ASAP.

At RR3 44CS 39 sword(TG str/con debuff sword is BIS imo) 37 stl/env remainder LA. As you go up in RR lower env/stl and increase LA. Keep sword at 39 if you want to keep the evade chain stun there but I didn't use it often. If you drop sword down that just means more LA which gives more damage. Just make sure whatever your RR you have comp 52 weapon, 50stl/env with +skills.

One you get rr7+ it opens a lot more options in terms of spec ie. shadowzerk while keeping perf/CD from CS which is a big deal. I don't recommend forcing high LA at lower RR as the utility of the CS line is very high(high damage, snare, haste debuff, defensive bonuses) compared to LA styles.
Fri 19 Apr 2019 3:24 PM by Shadowblade1
All great advice. Just to offer an alternative option, I believe CS can remain very good RR7 and beyond. I also am swords but at rr6 Ive dropped sword below 39. That stun chain doesn't seem to be worth the effort when you can hamstring chain for far more DPS and land far more successfully.

At rr6 I am currently 49 CS. Next I'll take it to 50. I prefer the Critblade playstyle. Something else to consider, once you get lifebane, Viper is a great RA. With viper 4 my DoT ticks for 88/89 on fully temped foes. I feel its a good equalizer against the resist tables on Shades.

I also play with a 2h in several situations, with success. And once I get STR to 300, I'll play with mastery of arms.
Fri 19 Apr 2019 10:10 PM by Padatoo
Thyestefles wrote: ↑
Thu 18 Apr 2019 9:50 PM
Looking for Shadowblade RVR and PVE spec and why they are the best.

The best spec is 50LA 34Cs and is available on RR10


If you really want to min/max your character ,then you have to study daoc mechanics by yourself - most effective things are counter-intuitive and you wont hear them on /advice ,like not using a 2h ,for example.So far all the other advice in this thread are arguable.

Also about asking about opinions on specs - most will tell you about anectodal evidence,from their experience with random opponent that had random rolls of miss/evade.Not many actually test and calculate dps - most just look at the biggest number without regard to the math.
Tue 23 Apr 2019 11:34 AM by Vennedra
Padatoo wrote: ↑
Fri 19 Apr 2019 10:10 PM
The best spec is 50LA 34Cs and is available on RR10

As a returning player, I'm still confused with some mechanics : what happens when you level your RR ? You got one point in each line ? And that unlocks new skills ?
Tue 23 Apr 2019 2:37 PM by Dreldan
You get +1 skills per RR level, Which allows you to dump less points into stealth and envenom (only need 50 composite) and more into your weapon skills which will give you more damage and allow you to play with different specs/abilities.
Tue 23 Apr 2019 4:20 PM by Vennedra
Oh, got it ! Thank you !
You need to buy more than one respec then, when you raise your RR level ? It's possible to buys respec with feathers ?
Tue 23 Apr 2019 4:36 PM by Padatoo
Vennedra wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Apr 2019 4:20 PM
Oh, got it ! Thank you !
You need to buy more than one respec then, when you raise your RR level ? It's possible to buys respec with feathers ?

Also weapon can be decreased since you use either CS or LA styles (former are better).

Yes,its 5k feathers at [bits n pieces] npc
Tue 23 Apr 2019 5:28 PM by Vennedra
Wonderfull community. Thank you guys.

Also a great source of information for the Shadowblade (I learned a lot here) :
https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=5946
Tue 23 Apr 2019 6:36 PM by Kappu
I personally wouldn't waste the time with RR3 spec just enter in your RR4 spec and deal with the few missing things for the handful of RvR nights you'll get there quicker than you think and I was almost there before getting 50.

I'd spec this way and I wouldn't respec until RR7-8 unless I just wanted to try a lower crit spec.

https://playphoenix.online/charplan/?class=Shadowblade&level=50&realmRank=30&view=skills&s6=39&s13=36&s31=36&s33=44&s80=21

36 Envenom/Stealth
39 Sword
44 Crit
21 LA

This spec also only leaves you with 2 remaining points to spend.

This spec will carry you forever the only thing you ever gain by respecing is more LA unless you plan on trying a completely different spec that Crit.
Wed 24 Apr 2019 12:40 AM by Mavella
Respeccing to drop env/stl and optionally sword as you go up in RR and increasing LA will increase your damage by reducing your LA penalty. Definitely worth doing.
Wed 24 Apr 2019 7:50 AM by Sepplord
Soon to be RR6, i am wondering which specc i will go for then?

Do you guys go lower than 35stealth? Is it worth it at RR6 already, since i would only go down to 34anyways? Or does it only become worthwhile later when i can lower stealth to 33/32/etc... ?

Regarding Critspeccs: why 44CS? Is the third-in-chain evadestyle reasonably applyable? Why not take it to 50CS if maximising CS-styledamage is the goal? Does LA bonus overtake CS-stylegrowth at the higher levels of CS (aka the difference between 44CS and 50CS would be 29LA or 17LA at a RR6 spec).


So far i have played with a semi-heavy LA spec, but i lack the time to test on dummies, and the skills and time to compare more than absolute-single-swing dmgnumbers in actual RvR-fights. Is high CS spec also worth it if you do not land stealth-openers? I often get the first attack onto enemy-sneaks but regularly do not hit PA/BS or open with a anytimer because they aren't in position to even try PA/BS
Wed 24 Apr 2019 1:20 PM by Kappu
Mavella wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 12:40 AM
Respeccing to drop env/stl and optionally sword as you go up in RR and increasing LA will increase your damage by reducing your LA penalty. Definitely worth doing.

Please show me some statistical data that proves going from 21 LA to 24 LA once you hit RR5 from RR4 that would justify the cost of a respec stone.
Wed 24 Apr 2019 2:30 PM by Mavella
Kappu wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 1:20 PM
Mavella wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 12:40 AM
Respeccing to drop env/stl and optionally sword as you go up in RR and increasing LA will increase your damage by reducing your LA penalty. Definitely worth doing.

Please show me some statistical data that proves going from 21 LA to 24 LA once you hit RR5 from RR4 that would justify the cost of a respec stone.

Only 3 points is likely only going to make your offhand hit 1-3 points harder and miss less(likely a fraction of a percent) . You might squeeze out a few extra damage on mainhand swings depending on targets. I wanted larger gains which is why I reduced sword along with it as I went up in RR. I hardly ever used the sword stun as I didn't want targets debuffing all my poisons and debuffs. Utlimately a lot of fights can come down to 1-2 swings so giving your self the opportunity to miss less and do a little more damage is always worth it. If your wallet is too tight to afford a 1.25plat respec stone every few weeks as you gain a RR I'm not sure SB might be the right class for you.
Wed 24 Apr 2019 2:39 PM by Saroi
50 LA, other stuff you spec is at this point irrelevant. I have always been 50 LA and I wouldn't change it for anything. PA/CD is not needed, especially since PA on this server is low and mostly outdone by the WS/Con debuff. CD gets purged anyways, which means your poisons are gone too. 10 CS for Backstab 2 is enough to kill casters, so you can get through the bubble.

The damage difference from 50 LA is just too high, compared to other specs.
Wed 24 Apr 2019 3:10 PM by Kappu
Mavella wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 2:30 PM
Kappu wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 1:20 PM
Mavella wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 12:40 AM
Respeccing to drop env/stl and optionally sword as you go up in RR and increasing LA will increase your damage by reducing your LA penalty. Definitely worth doing.

Please show me some statistical data that proves going from 21 LA to 24 LA once you hit RR5 from RR4 that would justify the cost of a respec stone.

Only 3 points are likely only going to make your offhand hit 1-3 points harder and miss less(likely a fraction of a percent). You might squeeze out a few extra damage on mainhand swings depending on targets. I wanted larger gains which is why I reduced sword along with it as I went up in RR. I hardly ever used the sword stun as I didn't want targets debuffing all my poisons and debuffs. Ultimately a lot of fights can come down to 1-2 swings so giving your self the opportunity to miss less and do a little more damage is always worth it. If your wallet is too tight to afford a 1.25plat respec stone every few weeks as you gain a RR I'm not sure SB might be the right class for you.

So this is my thing in a previous post you talk about until RR7 you recommend going 44 CS since it's a valuable line which I agree. If you don't want the stun from 39 sword that is fine, but if you're playing a Shadowblade and not swapping weapons after a purge to reapply poison you shouldn't be playing the class. You can still be 39 sword and just not use the stun.

So at RR4 you can go with
36 Stealth/Envenom
44 Crit
39 Sword
21 LA

RR5 (let's assume you respec Sword in line with Envenom/Stealth to 35)
35 Sword/Stealth/Envenom
44 Crit
29 LA (8 points with the assumption you gain 8/16/24 damage)

Skip to RR7
33 Sword/Stealth/Envenom
44 Crit
35 LA (14 points with the assumption you gain 14/28/42 damage)

See my point here? I'm on board with the idea that at RR7 you can probably start dumping things, but it's not necessarily needed by any means. I'd say you'd be arguing that once you get to RR7 you can actually dump crit to something in the line of 39 and then you'd see a substantial gain in LA damage.

RR7
33 Sword/Stealth/Envenom
39 Crit
41 LA (20 points with the assumption you gain 20/40/60 damage)

You could even go with 34 Crit if you wanted since the 3rd part Perf Sytle is most likely useless compared to LA styles (maybe?).

33 Sword/Stealth/Envenom
34 Crit
45 LA (24 points with the assumption you gain 24/48/72 damage( (this isn't that big of a jump and I'd have to see justifiable damage numbers vs. Stunning Stab damage)

This is one of those situations where I'm going to say having the utility to use Swords stun, CS Evade/Perf Chain and actually playing properly and reapplying poison after a Purge will net you more in the early realm ranks than worrying about min/max on LA. I'm not going to say once you are RR7 you shouldn't respec at that point I completely agree it's time to reduce and expand the hit and damage that LA has to offer.

It's not however worth it to respec for 2-3 plat over 3 RR's just for the off chance you are gaining a little bit of damage. I'm not an expert just going off what I've seen during my time on live and posts from others on these boards about their damage tests.
Wed 24 Apr 2019 4:02 PM by Mavella
Kappu wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 3:10 PM
Mavella wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 2:30 PM
Kappu wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 1:20 PM
Please show me some statistical data that proves going from 21 LA to 24 LA once you hit RR5 from RR4 that would justify the cost of a respec stone.

Only 3 points are likely only going to make your offhand hit 1-3 points harder and miss less(likely a fraction of a percent). You might squeeze out a few extra damage on mainhand swings depending on targets. I wanted larger gains which is why I reduced sword along with it as I went up in RR. I hardly ever used the sword stun as I didn't want targets debuffing all my poisons and debuffs. Ultimately a lot of fights can come down to 1-2 swings so giving your self the opportunity to miss less and do a little more damage is always worth it. If your wallet is too tight to afford a 1.25plat respec stone every few weeks as you gain a RR I'm not sure SB might be the right class for you.

So this is my thing in a previous post you talk about until RR7 you recommend going 44 CS since it's a valuable line which I agree. If you don't want the stun from 39 sword that is fine, but if you're playing a Shadowblade and not swapping weapons after a purge to reapply poison you shouldn't be playing the class. You can still be 39 sword and just not use the stun.

So at RR4 you can go with
36 Stealth/Envenom
44 Crit
39 Sword
21 LA

RR5 (let's assume you respec Sword in line with Envenom/Stealth to 35)
35 Sword/Stealth/Envenom
44 Crit
29 LA (8 points with the assumption you gain 8/16/24 damage)

Skip to RR7
33 Sword/Stealth/Envenom
44 Crit
35 LA (14 points with the assumption you gain 14/28/42 damage)

See my point here? I'm on board with the idea that at RR7 you can probably start dumping things, but it's not necessarily needed by any means. I'd say you'd be arguing that once you get to RR7 you can actually dump crit to something in the line of 39 and then you'd see a substantial gain in LA damage.

RR7
33 Sword/Stealth/Envenom
39 Crit
41 LA (20 points with the assumption you gain 20/40/60 damage)

You could even go with 34 Crit if you wanted since the 3rd part Perf Sytle is most likely useless compared to LA styles (maybe?).

33 Sword/Stealth/Envenom
34 Crit
45 LA (24 points with the assumption you gain 24/48/72 damage( (this isn't that big of a jump and I'd have to see justifiable damage numbers vs. Stunning Stab damage)

This is one of those situations where I'm going to say having the utility to use Swords stun, CS Evade/Perf Chain and actually playing properly and reapplying poison after a Purge will net you more in the early realm ranks than worrying about min/max on LA. I'm not going to say once you are RR7 you shouldn't respec at that point I completely agree it's time to reduce and expand the hit and damage that LA has to offer.

It's not however worth it to respec for 2-3 plat over 3 RR's just for the off chance you are gaining a little bit of damage. I'm not an expert just going off what I've seen during my time on live and posts from others on these boards about their damage tests.

First of all you need 52 comp weapon at all times to maximize damage. The only benefits to retaining 39 sword as you RR up is the stun and a minimal amount of weapon skill that you can make up for by taking some Aug str. The whole point of pumping LA as you level is that it decreases your offhand hit chance. It'll be around 16-17% at low LA opposed to 15.5%. Raising LA is also increasing the base damage by which all of your CS styles are going to be multipled by. The effect isn't as significant as it used to be after they made their custom LA scaling change here but it still becomes noticeable when your effective LA goes from 21+14 to 33+17 as you RR up. This path does have the unfortunate consequence of losing an evade stun until rr9 when you can go 44cs/39LA. I tried 39CS/39LA for a bit at rr7 and loved having a stun again but found myself losing to sins more often so I switched back.

Ultimately everyone can choose to spec how they like I'm a proponent of this spec as it allows for quick kills on visibles and maximizes damage in 1v1 fights vs other sins. I just can't fathom fretting over 2-3 plat on respecs when you'll likely be spending 10s of plats on your template, pots, charges, and spare weapons to keep in your bag.
Wed 24 Apr 2019 5:47 PM by Kappu
My point on respecing is that you don't need to bother until RR7 you won't see a significant increase in damage until you can get to something close to 52 composite LA. It's not about the fact of the plat to do it it's about whether you really need to which you don't. You gain more utility as a lower RR assassin by keeping your crit and sword spec at 44/39 for the utility of the style chains.
Wed 24 Apr 2019 7:37 PM by Mavella
Kappu wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 5:47 PM
My point on respecing is that you don't need to bother until RR7 you won't see a significant increase in damage until you can get to something close to 52 composite LA. It's not about the fact of the plat to do it it's about whether you really need to which you don't. You gain more utility as a lower RR assassin by keeping your crit and sword spec at 44/39 for the utility of the style chains.

I said in my initial post that people are welcome to keep 39 sword if that floats their boat. I however valued maximum damage over situational utility and had 2 options.
Increase CS or LA and I felt getting more hard points into LA improved my all around damage more than that last 6 points in CS and getting an extremely hard to land 4th in a chain style. Every point in LA is going to increase your overall damage .66% with half if it being multiplied by your style growth rates.

We can just agree to disagree you say don't bother I say I want to maximize my statistical chances of winning any given engagement as fast as possible and getting my ass back in stealth before I get speedbumped by roaming groups or other stealthers.
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