Pre-doom and gloom reminder - Phoenix Freeshard

Population always goes down during NA/EU spring and summer.

This is not the end-times, it's just normal for any game that involves being indoors when the weather is hotter/it's mating season.

Sun 21 Apr 2019 9:51 PM by shintacki

Tell that to uthgard. Those numbers went down and people said the same thing. Then no one came back. I’m not saying that will happen here, but there has already been a decline in peak numbers and it’s only going to go down more. The only question is: will there be enough players left when it eventually levels out? I think there will be because this server is better than uthgard in a lot of ways and they are actually listening to the community when it comes to making changes (like the current discussion about charges and buffs).

Sun 21 Apr 2019 10:34 PM by broalition

what is this, server is less than a few months old.

don't talk of such rubbish this is the best server to grace DAoC and is it's savior.

Sun 21 Apr 2019 11:09 PM by Tree

I havent participated much ingame or on the forums these past weeks, but my overall impression is that there is a certain dissatisfaction with how the RvR works on Phoenix and how certain things you can do in RvR are rewarded. On top of that endgame in PvE is quite easy and makes you burn through content too fast.

Those are things that should probably be addressed, otherwise more people will leave because of lack of longtime motivation.

Mon 22 Apr 2019 4:54 AM by Jafeeio

Fun fact: For the most part MMOs have been going against the grain when it comes to the whole "gotta release in Fall / Winter because nobody is playing games when it is sunny outside" narrative. Everquest came out in March, City of Heroes in April, Age of Conan in May, SWG and Wildstar came out in June, the next expansion for FFXIV will be coming out on July 2nd and the last WoW expansion came out in August.

What is really detrimental to multiplayer games is the constant "reporting" of new lowest population numbers and gloating by people who are unhappy for whatever reason, because that's the first thing new people see when they check out the forums.

I'd like to offer a nice piece of history to put things into context a bit:
https://web.archive.org/web/20030603030603/http://camelotherald.com/

This is a snapshot of the NA servers during primetime just before 1.62, when DAoC was at its absolute height for most of us. As we can see most servers were hovering around 1300-1400 players and from reading the forums I don't remember anybody having a terrible time on Nimue or Kay. So keep that in mind the next time the population drops below 2500 and the temptation to create a thread calling the death of the server rises.

Mon 22 Apr 2019 5:41 PM by Anaethema

Tree wrote: ↑
Sun 21 Apr 2019 11:09 PM
my overall impression is that there is a certain dissatisfaction with how the RvR works on Phoenix and how certain things you can do in RvR are rewarded.

QFT.

Mon 22 Apr 2019 9:42 PM by chryso

Anaethema wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 5:41 PM
Tree wrote: ↑
Sun 21 Apr 2019 11:09 PM
my overall impression is that there is a certain dissatisfaction with how the RvR works on Phoenix and how certain things you can do in RvR are rewarded.

QFT.

By a few, yes. I think the majority are generally happy with how things are here.

Mon 22 Apr 2019 10:43 PM by Warjon

chryso wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 9:42 PM
Anaethema wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 5:41 PM
Tree wrote: ↑
Sun 21 Apr 2019 11:09 PM
my overall impression is that there is a certain dissatisfaction with how the RvR works on Phoenix and how certain things you can do in RvR are rewarded.

QFT.

By a few, yes. I think the majority are generally happy with how things are here.

Heh yeah the Uth 1&2 people hate seeing casuals level up a different way than what DAOC "is suppose to be!" smh

Mon 22 Apr 2019 11:03 PM by florin

There will always be drop offs for various reasons. Time will tell but a big part of it is the staff interaction.

Mon 22 Apr 2019 11:12 PM by Tarticus74

Trust me the way the alb zerg run about and also the hib zerg there are plenty people on the server.

The amount of Alb stealth zergs as well should tell you that hahaha.

Ohh and scouts in a 8man when was that a thing lol

Tue 23 Apr 2019 12:53 AM by Anaethema

chryso wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 9:42 PM
Anaethema wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 5:41 PM
Tree wrote: ↑
Sun 21 Apr 2019 11:09 PM
my overall impression is that there is a certain dissatisfaction with how the RvR works on Phoenix and how certain things you can do in RvR are rewarded.

QFT.

By a few, yes. I think the majority are generally happy with how things are here.

I am not a leet player. I am not a hardcore 8v8 proponent. I play more than most casuals and yes, I am dissatisfied with the implementation of RvR as it exists on Phoenix. Zerging is a way to mindlessly gain RPs but it gets boring and monotonous after awhile. I pretty much quit playing a few weeks ago and have only logged in once to pay my house rent since that time. If "The Majority" are so happy with how things are going on Pheonix, how come the server pop has dropped roughly 36% from it's all time high and roughly 17% in the last month? Yes, 83% are happy (for now) but the overall trend is continually downward.

A downward trend can only be sustained for so long.

Tue 23 Apr 2019 1:10 AM by waffel

When was the last meaningful RvR change? The flag/ball/caravan thing?

The ball was removed within hours. Caravans were changed a few times and are now 100% pointless, and flag porting isn’t nearly as common as people don’t care enough to turn in the items.

Keeps are still never defended, and are now farmed PvE style.

Maybe the devs should focus on RvR and not junk like PvE 8 man instances and a new crafting moneysink that people tried for a few days and gave up on because it was pointless.

Lots of devtime tied up on stuff nobody really wants and that does nothing to hold onto players.

Tue 23 Apr 2019 5:34 AM by qq6

My experience here has been all over the place. I went from something i enjoyed to something i really do not, and i barely log on now. A few reasons, i played this game back when it came out, not for the grind that there was, but for the fun it created, through random events/pvp or pve, it was a new experience overall. Right now, the current daoc, is just about the grind, and less so about the "experience". Its still a great game, but its never going to be, what it was back then. The more i play the grind game, the more i realise how crap it actually is (balance/experience wise), and, why i dont want to log on. Fights from my perspective, are won on cds, and nothing else, which makes it very very boring....

This server scratched the itch i had, but it definitely is not something i would enjoy in the long term, simply because its just so monotonous. I wish you all gl and fun, great server for what has been done, but, i am out.

Tue 23 Apr 2019 5:42 AM by tweedledumb99

One of the things I just have to laugh at is when a small but significant group of people pretends that their problems are shared by everyone else so they can tweak the server to their liking.

It's worked before so it must work again right? Better throw my weight around!

Hopefully that doesn't work here.

More tweaks and small adjustments will please me, nothing drastic needs to be changed to keep me playing.

Tue 23 Apr 2019 7:09 AM by Sepplord

Anaethema wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Apr 2019 12:53 AM
chryso wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 9:42 PM
Anaethema wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 5:41 PM
QFT.

By a few, yes. I think the majority are generally happy with how things are here.

I am not a leet player. I am not a hardcore 8v8 proponent. I play more than most casuals and yes, I am dissatisfied with the implementation of RvR as it exists on Phoenix. Zerging is a way to mindlessly gain RPs but it gets boring and monotonous after awhile. I pretty much quit playing a few weeks ago and have only logged in once to pay my house rent since that time. If "The Majority" are so happy with how things are going on Pheonix, how come the server pop has dropped roughly 36% from it's all time high and roughly 17% in the last month? Yes, 83% are happy (for now) but the overall trend is continually downward.

A downward trend can only be sustained for so long.

We can't really know from those numbers though...

More could be unhappy and have quit already, while a few that are happy have started playing more...
Almost noone could be unhappy, but even the happy people need to cut back on their initial surge of playing and get back to their lives and log in less now, despite being satisfied

There are so many variables that it is impossible to simply look at peek-population numbers at set-points and have meaningful conclusions.
I guess the staff has more details about how those numbers are made up. recurring accounts, playtime per account, inactive accounts since date xyz, etc...

Fact is, regarding activity the server is still at a very healthy population. If there are significant concurring drops though it could become a problem

Tue 23 Apr 2019 10:42 AM by Kaosfury

Tree wrote: ↑
Sun 21 Apr 2019 11:09 PM
I havent participated much ingame or on the forums these past weeks, but my overall impression is that there is a certain dissatisfaction with how the RvR works on Phoenix and how certain things you can do in RvR are rewarded. On top of that endgame in PvE is quite easy and makes you burn through content too fast.

Those are things that should probably be addressed, otherwise more people will leave because of lack of longtime motivation.

This exactly, after a week of PVE, all there is to do is Chase people around in rvr, not everybody wants to do that all day.

There is a severe lack of reasoning to do PVE, just because there's a lot of places to go, doesn't mean there's a reason to go there.

After one week you can have level 50 all the feathers you need and fully templated, so what's the point of going and hanging out in the dungeon for 2 hours to earn stuff you don't even need anymore. The game feels like an arena you just login run around for 20 minutes log out

My 2c

Tue 23 Apr 2019 11:07 AM by Stoertebecker

All could be fine if ppl would play more and complain less

It makes me smile if ppl complaining about rvr is to zergy and the same ppl complaining about dropping numbers...cause it would be less zergy with more ppl.
Brillant logic.

DAoC is 18 years old, what did you expect? 3,5k players over the next 5 years and free of zergs?
Ppl grow up ( in age ), gamers mentality has changed drastically over the years. Maybe we should just take it as it is, as long as it lasts.

Broadsword is going to make DAoC f2p (not really f2p, but thats another story) within the next year, something they should have done 5y ago.
If they have success with their vision and buisness modell (what i don`t think) DAoC may last for another 2-3 years.

Once CU hits the road it`s time to dim the lights and say farewell DAoC, no matter on which server.

Tue 23 Apr 2019 11:22 AM by Stoertebecker

Kaosfury wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Apr 2019 10:42 AM
Tree wrote: ↑
Sun 21 Apr 2019 11:09 PM
I havent participated much ingame or on the forums these past weeks, but my overall impression is that there is a certain dissatisfaction with how the RvR works on Phoenix and how certain things you can do in RvR are rewarded. On top of that endgame in PvE is quite easy and makes you burn through content too fast.

Those are things that should probably be addressed, otherwise more people will leave because of lack of longtime motivation.

This exactly, after a week of PVE, all there is to do is Chase people around in rvr, not everybody wants to do that all day.

There is a severe lack of reasoning to do PVE, just because there's a lot of places to go, doesn't mean there's a reason to go there.

After one week you can have level 50 all the feathers you need and fully templated, so what's the point of going and hanging out in the dungeon for 2 hours to earn stuff you don't even need anymore. The game feels like an arena you just login run around for 20 minutes log out

My 2c

DAoC was never known for amazing pve content, it was mostly always * zerg the mobs down* or a dps race. So don`t expect that they invent completly new core mechanics. They engine is what it is....old.
I would play ESO (i did for 2,5y) if i`d be looking for a great pve experience with good gfx and sometimes some pvp (it`s called AvA over there), but not DAoC.

Tue 23 Apr 2019 11:23 AM by Greenangel

I been working all over easter and about take two week holiday after myself with no computer.

I will be back playing after but yea that -1 player for two week's.

For server stay alive keep the majority happy keep casuals happy and realm war going.
Let the 100 or so jobless elitists bums hit top realm rank get board with not many 8v8 and quit server.

While other 1000 casuals stay and have fun of what game was designed realm vs realm war.

If you only make the jobless elitists bums happy who are the minority you end up like Uthgard. Dead.

I hope we see more these jobless worthless bums quit server. It's best way for server not to end up like uthgard .

Tue 23 Apr 2019 11:25 AM by Kaosfury

I have played Dark Age of Camelot from its Inception over the past eighteen years,

This game could be a phenomenal game. Phoenix just going a different direction, age has nothing to do with whether or not Dark Age of Camelot will stay relevant.

Not everybody wants to log in and RVR constantly 24/7, not everybody wants the you get a trophy just for showing up realm point welfare.... not everybody wants Dark Age of Camelot with training wheels.

I personally prefer to do a couple of quest and derp around and have fun, and then go out and PVP, rvr.

Unfortunately for me Phoenix feels like Anthem with swords, you login rvr until you're tired of it then you log out, absolutely zero keeping me playing the game, why would I? less than a week I got a max level character in fully templated, that used to be the reason to play, doing the raids to get the better gear to keep grinding a little bit towards your goal.

We have a different view on the game,

Tue 23 Apr 2019 12:35 PM by Luluko

Its funny how some people here think the lack of lvl 50 pve content is a reason for that, broadsword introduced some 50 pve content but to keep it relevant they introduced new items which made gearing one toon cost like 400platin+ I dont want that here or any other pve related content which gives you benefits in pvp.

On another note I think the realmtimer is a huge problem some people maybe start on another realm to play a few different classes but since you are forced to play the same realm until you loggout for 12hours there will prlly plenty of guilds which stopped playing since its not convienent to switch the realm. Maybe the devs could adress this a realmtimer while preventing winning team joiners logg the other realm its also a huge problem for people which just want to lvl or solo on a different realm and play with their guild in the later hours when its zergy and soloing is just pointless.

Tue 23 Apr 2019 1:17 PM by waffel

Can't imagine anyone playing Phoenix for the PvE experience. There are no quests, no OTDs, no meaningful dungeon crawls, and everything you find yourself is RoG. If you want meaningful PvE content you play Project 1999. An established freeshard that has been around for years, has a steady and growing player-base, the devs have a vision, and you get to play one of the greatest PvE games of all time.

You play DAoC for RvR. Right now, the Phoenix devs have done nothing to expand on what Mythic had originally. It blows my mind the Phoenix devs are seemingly content with OF, hell even stubborn Mythic revamped it and went to NF.

There was a prime opportunity here to revamp keep layouts, make siege equipment matter again, create different objectives that need to be defended, add more/different relics, add PvE elements where you can spawn castle-defense style mob attacks on objectives, more RvR titles, more RvR cosmetic rewards, etc.

Yet, here we are. Zergs running around looking for fights, 8mans running around looking for solos to gank, someone gathers a BG to take empty keeps in an empty non-task realm.

While I appreciate what the devs have done and continue to do, the writing was on the wall since launch:
If you make PvE/leveling/temping easier, but you keep the same old stagnant RvR that even Mythic replaced, people are going to move on quickly.

Tue 23 Apr 2019 1:21 PM by Kaosfury

I agree with the New Frontiers statement, I would like to see New Frontiers happen, I would come back and keep playing if that was the case

Tue 23 Apr 2019 1:34 PM by waffel

Kaosfury wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Apr 2019 1:21 PM
I agree with the New Frontiers statement, I would like to see New Frontiers happen, I would come back and keep playing if that was the case

I think a lot of people would, even the devs would like NF.

However, you have to keep in mind, a majority of Phoenix server code was copied from other freeshards over the years. That being said, no other DAoC freeshard has ever had New Frontiers. Basically, the entire Phoenix dev team would have to dedicate all their time to building NF themselves. The map/textures/etc. should be easy enough, but doing all the pathing and logic of the NPCs is what takes a very, very long time. This is why whenever it is brought up in conversation the devs state that even if they wanted to do NF, it would be 6 months out.

All that being said, my theory is that NF IS being worked on by the Phoenix devs but they are keeping it hush-hush so people stop asking about it. That is the only way I can explain why the current keep and siege system has been abandoned and forgotten about since launch.

Tue 23 Apr 2019 1:40 PM by chryso

Luluko wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Apr 2019 12:35 PM
On another note I think the realmtimer is a huge problem some people maybe start on another realm to play a few different classes but since you are forced to play the same realm until you loggout for 12hours there will prlly plenty of guilds which stopped playing since its not convienent to switch the realm. Maybe the devs could adress this a realmtimer while preventing winning team joiners logg the other realm its also a huge problem for people which just want to lvl or solo on a different realm and play with their guild in the later hours when its zergy and soloing is just pointless.

I don't get this. Unless your life consists of sleeping and playing DAOC this should not be a problem. Even if that is what your life consists of then when you factor out the sleep time that is only 4 hours of not playing. Are you telling me that your life is so void of everything that being required to not play one specific video game for 4 hours is a huge problem for you? Is there nothing else in the entire world that you can do during that time.

I think this is why people leave the game. They focus SO MUCH time on it that they quickly burn out.

Tue 23 Apr 2019 2:56 PM by cere2

qq6 wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Apr 2019 5:34 AM
My experience here has been all over the place. I went from something i enjoyed to something i really do not, and i barely log on now. A few reasons, i played this game back when it came out, not for the grind that there was, but for the fun it created, through random events/pvp or pve, it was a new experience overall. Right now, the current daoc, is just about the grind, and less so about the "experience". Its still a great game, but its never going to be, what it was back then. The more i play the grind game, the more i realise how crap it actually is (balance/experience wise), and, why i dont want to log on. Fights from my perspective, are won on cds, and nothing else, which makes it very very boring....

This server scratched the itch i had, but it definitely is not something i would enjoy in the long term, simply because its just so monotonous. I wish you all gl and fun, great server for what has been done, but, i am out.

Sorry to hear that Lolli, but I think you have found out why I have been so upset with how the stealth detection really works as it is now.
Yes you can definitely win with archers, but you need to have purge and IP at the ready to stand a chance, and even then hope they don't have vanish up..
It was this way to an extent on Live, but you could still be competitive even without purge being up if you had some skills like dancing, landing positional's, knew how to kite etc. Not to mention that if a stealther used vanish there was still a chance to find them and finish them off, or after looking for 20 secs with no success, you had the chance of getting destroyed etc...made it fun! These type of things are just plain missing from phoenix. Yes this is from someone who typically mains an archer but what can actively hunt assassin's on this server?

Tue 23 Apr 2019 3:21 PM by Amp_Phetamine

cere2 wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Apr 2019 2:56 PM
qq6 wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Apr 2019 5:34 AM
My experience here has been all over the place. I went from something i enjoyed to something i really do not, and i barely log on now. A few reasons, i played this game back when it came out, not for the grind that there was, but for the fun it created, through random events/pvp or pve, it was a new experience overall. Right now, the current daoc, is just about the grind, and less so about the "experience". Its still a great game, but its never going to be, what it was back then. The more i play the grind game, the more i realise how crap it actually is (balance/experience wise), and, why i dont want to log on. Fights from my perspective, are won on cds, and nothing else, which makes it very very boring....

This server scratched the itch i had, but it definitely is not something i would enjoy in the long term, simply because its just so monotonous. I wish you all gl and fun, great server for what has been done, but, i am out.

Sorry to hear that Lolli, but I think you have found out why I have been so upset with how the stealth detection really works as it is now.
Yes you can definitely win with archers, but you need to have purge and IP at the ready to stand a chance, and even then hope they don't have vanish up..
It was this way to an extent on Live, but you could still be competitive even without purge being up if you had some skills like dancing, landing positional's, knew how to kite etc. Not to mention that if a stealther used vanish there was still a chance to find them and finish them off, or after looking for 20 secs with no success, you had the chance of getting destroyed etc...made it fun! These type of things are just plain missing from phoenix. Yes this is from someone who typically mains an archer but what can actively hunt assassin's on this server?

Me

Tue 23 Apr 2019 3:23 PM by Sepplord

who would actively hunt archers if they get to become the assasin-hunters?

Assassins don't need to be hunted...they come to you to kill you
Archers need to be hunted, because they can kill you without even being visible on your screen (tree for example)

Tue 23 Apr 2019 3:28 PM by RaisingSun

Greenangel wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Apr 2019 11:23 AM
I been working all over easter and about take two week holiday after myself with no computer.

I will be back playing after but yea that -1 player for two week's.

For server stay alive keep the majority happy keep casuals happy and realm war going.
Let the 100 or so jobless elitists bums hit top realm rank get board with not many 8v8 and quit server.

While other 1000 casuals stay and have fun of what game was designed realm vs realm war.

If you only make the jobless elitists bums happy who are the minority you end up like Uthgard. Dead.

I hope we see more these jobless worthless bums quit server. It's best way for server not to end up like uthgard .

Agree..They cater to the fg and elite folks and ignore the claims for the solo's and small man's Either you full group and get all the benefits or be damned. The comparison to Uthgard is stunning. I wont even mention the complaint because they will continue to be ignored.

Tue 23 Apr 2019 4:09 PM by cere2

waffel wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Apr 2019 1:34 PM
Kaosfury wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Apr 2019 1:21 PM
I agree with the New Frontiers statement, I would like to see New Frontiers happen, I would come back and keep playing if that was the case

I think a lot of people would, even the devs would like NF.

However, you have to keep in mind, a majority of Phoenix server code was copied from other freeshards over the years. That being said, no other DAoC freeshard has ever had New Frontiers. Basically, the entire Phoenix dev team would have to dedicate all their time to building NF themselves. The map/textures/etc. should be easy enough, but doing all the pathing and logic of the NPCs is what takes a very, very long time. This is why whenever it is brought up in conversation the devs state that even if they wanted to do NF, it would be 6 months out.

All that being said, my theory is that NF IS being worked on by the Phoenix devs but they are keeping it hush-hush so people stop asking about it. That is the only way I can explain why the current keep and siege system has been abandoned and forgotten about since launch.

I so hope that you are correct with this theory. I think as do so many others. OF is poo.

Keeps in OF are worse than poo.

Tue 23 Apr 2019 4:32 PM by vadox

@Roto23, make sure you are paying attention, this is yet another mentioning of yourself or your favorite person.

i remember similar situation was happening at Jumanji server and doom and gloom myth was spreading out like an army of locust but our supreme GM Abystrodamus said that it is only seasonal and Jumanji will be back in business better than ever as we can see now. Don't go against the person that knows best or you'll get a hammer!

Tue 23 Apr 2019 4:41 PM by lourock

waffel wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Apr 2019 1:34 PM
Kaosfury wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Apr 2019 1:21 PM
I agree with the New Frontiers statement, I would like to see New Frontiers happen, I would come back and keep playing if that was the case

I think a lot of people would, even the devs would like NF.

NF hell no those maps suck so hard nothing but bridge warfare, NF keeps yes.

Tue 23 Apr 2019 5:19 PM by Luluko

chryso wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Apr 2019 1:40 PM
Luluko wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Apr 2019 12:35 PM
On another note I think the realmtimer is a huge problem some people maybe start on another realm to play a few different classes but since you are forced to play the same realm until you loggout for 12hours there will prlly plenty of guilds which stopped playing since its not convienent to switch the realm. Maybe the devs could adress this a realmtimer while preventing winning team joiners logg the other realm its also a huge problem for people which just want to lvl or solo on a different realm and play with their guild in the later hours when its zergy and soloing is just pointless.

I don't get this. Unless your life consists of sleeping and playing DAOC this should not be a problem. Even if that is what your life consists of then when you factor out the sleep time that is only 4 hours of not playing. Are you telling me that your life is so void of everything that being required to not play one specific video game for 4 hours is a huge problem for you? Is there nothing else in the entire world that you can do during that time.

I think this is why people leave the game. They focus SO MUCH time on it that they quickly burn out.

could you stop assuming things? I never said how much I play and at most I play like 4-5 hours a day and even that gets less and less if I cant find solo action on my skald. You want to be able to solo on certain classes lets say infi/minstrel or skald and run grp in hib in the evening or you want to xp in hib in the afternoon for 2-3hours and then maybe join a tg raid in mid or run rvr 1-2 hours before it gets too zergy. Its just an inconvience for many people if you are locked on one realm for pretty much the whole day. The same it is that we dont have bp speed. Why would anyone in their right mind bother running solo visible using only hastener speed from keeps and then get insta speed lost by bards and die or run into an aggro mob and lose speed to waste the next 10minutes of his freetime to reach the zone you wanted to travel too. Even on a skald you run like 7mins from mpk in HW to Snowdownia. Thats just too much for most people to bother with if you have scarce free time. Then they rather go emain and get zerged by fgs of albs or join a keep pve raid for 1-2 hours to maybe get 10k rps/hour prlly even less than that. That are the problems of people which dont play grp friendly toons or just dont wanna grp or just cant compete with most 8man or the alb zerg in emain. Thats are also reasons why people leave I hope they will do something about it.