Aesa's Thane Beginners Guide

Started 8 Apr 2019
by Arshesmaral
in Midgard
I know how you felt once, playing your Skald or Warrior or Savage, and yeah, you rip and tear in melee. Great times. Then, a paragon of Midgardian might and beauty strolls up, long blonde hair billowing in the wind as he sheaths his hammer, raises his hands, and then summons multiple, giant hammers to obliterate the enemy. Remember that feeling? "Wow, I wish I could do that." It's okay to be envious, but you don't need to deprive yourself of glorious Thane-ness any longer!

Aesa's Thane Beginner's Guide is here to help you understand the best class in the game* and help you become a Favoured of Thor and a boon to your group mates.

Choice of Races:
So you're sitting at your character creation screen, and have to decide what race you're going to make your newly inspired fanboy of Thor. The good news is that they're all good, but some are more suited for different types of playstyles, so the choice is yours!

Norse - The standard do-anything race of Midgard, and with Thanes, they're no exception. If you're looking for a slightly offensive, mixed-melee/casting race, this is the choice for you. Their melee is nothing to sneeze at (350 STR is easy to hit with a basic template and full buffs), and their casting is not hellaciously slow. Slightly lower-than-average Dexterity will not be too much of an impact on your casting speed and block chances. Suggested Archetype - Offensive Hybrid

Dwarf - First off, you can get an eyepatch, like Thor's Daddy Odin. That's cool. Secondly, you're a friggin' Dwarf. The stout, resilient Dwarves will definitely allow you to hit higher HP caps than any other race in Midgard, if you'd like a little more staying power. It's not overmuch, but it's something. Plus, some Albs or Hibs might mistake you for a Healer and get a face full of Slam-stun for their trouble. Suggested Archetype - Defensive Hybrid

Troll - Huge and scary. Trolls can hit harder in melee than any other race in the game, but their casting speed will consistently be behind the other races due to them being, literally, made out of rocks. Still, when you get behind someone and shatter their spine with Conquer, it feels so, so good. Suggested Archetype - Offensive Melee-Focus

Frostalf - The stupid sexy Elf of Midgard. Frostalf are Midgard's answer to Hibernian Elves and Albion Avalonians. They're slightly weaker, less durable, and less dexterous, while being more pious. Those negatives? They don't mean diddly. 5 points from STR, CON, and DEX, will produce negative effects so minimal, you can pretty much just forget those 15 points being taken away to be put into glorious Piety. Frostalf Thanes will hit harder with their spells, since Thanes do not benefit from the Acuity Buff, so if you're looking to be cast-happy, Frosty is the way to go. Suggested Archetype - Offensive Caster-Focus

...but really, it doesn't matter too much what race you pick (aside from Troll, because of the large stat point adjustment), so feel free to play whatever race you want to look at while you smite your inferior foes with hammer and magic.


Speccing your Thane:
There are two predominantly popular Thane specs, but in the end, you should use only one for reasons I will explain.

Two Hander Spec - 50 Stormcalling - 50 Weapon - 28 Parry.
You're sacrificing your use of a shield to get more melee offensive capabilities. Sledgehammer off Conquer (Backstyle), and Mjolnir's Fury off Lambast (Parry Reactionary). Don't get me wrong, these are fantastic styles, and when they land, they hit stupid hard and Mjolnir's Fury inflicts a devastating 34% Melee Haste reduction. However, in the world of PvE and RvR, having access to a Shield Spec and not using it is such a hard pill to swallow. Wardens would abandon their own mothers to a zerg of Albs to be able to spec into Shield. Atop that, don't forget that you are a Hybrid. Leave the dedicated two-handering to the classes that excel at them - namely, Skalds and Warriors.

Hybrid Spec - 50 Stormcalling - 42 Shield - 39 Weapon (Hammer Suggested) - 6 Parry.
Never forget that you are a Thane, the most accurate description of what a Hybrid is on Dark Age of Camelot. You can cast, you can melee, and interchange between the two at your leisure (barring some Lurikeen gnawing on your calf). Having access to Slam with Shield spec is amazing, and your melee damage output still is able to hit the 52 Composite you need on Phoenix at RR3, which is easy as pie to get to. When its time to throw down, you can still splatter skulls with Conquer, and Provoke is an excellent anytime style, as you'll have the defensive capabilities to make up for the defensive penalty associated with the style. Atop that, you can Guard your Healers and Shamans if you're staying in the backfield, or your more choppy-choppy brethren if you're running with the assist train.

Important Note - Always go 50 Stormcalling - There is absolutely no reason not to, and if you're thinking of dropping points from SCing to boost your melee or defensive skills, I'd recommend playing a Warrior instead. Stormcalling is our iconic, bread-and-butter skill tree. Max it.


Your Thane's Skills:
So now that you got your race and spec in mind, what are all these buttons and what do they do?

Important Hammer-line Styles - (You did go Hammer, right?)
Provoke - Hammer 15 - Your best anytimer. Ridiculously low endurance, decent damage, and infinitely spammable when nothing else suffices. Be sure to switch to Ruiner or Placate if you're actively trying to avoid drawing aggro, though, such as when you're in Tuscaren Glacier or whompin' the Dragon.
Conquer - Hammer 29 - Your backstyle. Slows target for 60% for 23 seconds. Your RvR peel style when some jerk tank is giving your Healer a hard time. If Slam doesn't work, Conquer will. It's also the style you switch to when facing a stunned enemy. Switch to your two hander, get behind them, and redecorate Emain Macha in shades of Hib. Shame it does not have a to-hit bonus, which is odd for a backstyle, but, hey, you can't get everything your way.
Revenge - Hammer 21 - Your off-block reactionary. 21% Melee Haste debuff for 20 seconds. Nice when you're in a drag-out fight with an enemy tank or simply when you're levelling. Less incoming damage is always good, and it hits decently hard.

Important Stormcalling Spells - (AKA - All of it)
Thor's Full Lightning - Stormcalling 48 - Your single target, direct damage spell. This is your go-to spell for ranged combat. Casts fast. Hits decently hard. Looks cool. Awesome.
Command Mjolnir - Stormcalling 45 - This is it. This is the one everyone in the game wants. The one, the only, AoE Hammers. Usage of your Hammers requires some forethought. Yes, Thanes have the reputation of being mez-breakers. Yes, we totally deserve it. No, you don't get to use that as an excuse to let your Hammers fly willy-nilly. Be a good Thane, and have tactical awareness of the situation at hand. Did your Healer just AoE Stun? Let those Hammers fly! Is the enemy coming into the Lord's Room while you're defending a Keep? Drop some Hammers on them. Are you in a pitched back and forth battle in open RvR and some enemies just happen to be standing near one another? Ehhhhhhhhhh...maybe hold off a second and take a quick look to ensure they're not mezzed. Your command of Mjolnir is what will make or break you as a Good Thane vs. That Idiot Thane That Wiped The BG. Be the former.
Toothgnasher's Ram and Greater Thunder Roar - Stormcalling 44 - Your instants. One is a ranged DD that hits less hard than Thor's Full Lightning, but is great for interrupts, and the other is a PBAoE that can be used to supplement melee damage or interrupt.
Banishing Blows - Stormcalling 47 - Your Energy debuff melee proc spell (AKA - 'Eh, why not?'. If this spell were a castable one that could debuff your own damage, it'd be frickin' amazing, but as it is, it procs off melee attacks, so it's relegated to be a buff of convenience rather than one you should rely upon in every fight. It does go off a lot, but you still should not base your attack patterns around it. If it goes off and you can start casting, by all means, do so. Just don't deliberately try and do such, because you've better things to be focusing upon.
Thunder's Rend - Stormcalling 46 - Your self-only Damage Add (9.4). Nothing really needs to be said about this. Keep it up at all times.
Thor's Potence - Stormcalling 50 - This is why you go 50 Stormcalling. Self-75 STR/CON is nothing to sneeze at, and it will help your Shamans buff even more people with specs. Obviously, keep it up at all times. All your timers are on 23 minute durations on Phoenix. Set an egg timer if you need to, but never let them drop in mid-fight. You'll feel silly. Kobolds will laugh at you. Thor himself will shake his head in a disapproving fatherly way that will leave you with emotional scarring for years to come and keep you awake at night with self-defeating guilt.

Important Shield Styles - (...or rather, style.)
Slam - Shield 42 - It's Slam. Anytime stuns for 9 seconds. To quote a 90s comic book tough guy - 'nuff said.
Guard III - Shield 15 - Put it on your Healer/Shaman if you're hanging in the backfield, or your tankier friend if part of the assist train.
Engage - Shield 7 - Good for archers.


Realm Abilities:
You did it! You hit 50, got templated, and now are joining your bestest buddies in taking keeps, stealing relics, and murdering anyone who doesn't look like they belong 'round here. Congratulations! Now, you're getting these things called Realm Points, and can augment your Thane in fancy ways, but what should you take? Well...

Augmented (Stat) - If you feel you're missing some core stats, feel free to put some points into these. As far as I am aware, Dex Break points don't exist on Phoenix, so you don't need to hit a specific number of Dexterity points to improve your casting speed, as each point will improve it little by little. (NOTE: PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE correct me if I am wrong on this. It's just what I've read/been told multiple times.)

Mastery of Focus - Get Mastery of Focus II (you do not need any more than MoF II) as soon as you can. It will greatly assist in making so your AoE Hammers and Instas do not get resisted as much.

Longwind / Tireless - Allows you to perma-sprint with an Endurance Potion or Shaman Endurance Buff. Everyone expects you to get this, and for good reason. Speed 6 (Skald Speed 5 + Sprinting) is better than Speed 5. It's simple math. Plus, Albs and Hibs are doing it, so you don't want those chuckleheads to be faster than you.

Mastery of Pain - Improving how hard you hit in melee is always good. You get 10% chance to crit by default, and Mastery of Pain passives are added atop that. For example, Mastery of Pain III, which gives you 9%, would give you 19% chance to crit in melee. Apply liberally with Conquer and a two-hander.

Wild Power - Improving your casting damage is equally good, because generally, your spells will hit harder and faster than your melee swings. Now, Thanes do not appear to get the default 10% chance to crit with their spells like they get in melee, so any points into Wild Power is a straight bonus to your casting damage. (NOTE: Again, please correct me if I am wrong, but I don't believe I am.)

Purge - Get it. Purge II at the very least.

Static Tempest - It's good. Interrupts casters/runners periodically (2sec every 5/sec) in a wide radius for an appreciable duration and has a cool effect. Relive the "glory days" of being a Stormlord in ToA before you realised that Stormlord sucked and went Battlemaster instead. (Edit: According to Dudis, it also resets to stun immunity. I knew this not. Thanks, Dudis!)

Dual Threat - Bonus to Crit Chance for both Melee and Spells - It's....good...ish. Certainly helpful, but the points costs are a bit steep for the amount of bonus it gives you. (Edit: After Mastery of Pain V and Wild Power V, Dual Threat gives 5% to both melee and magic crit chance while costing the same as one of the other two. Subsequent Dual Threat bonuses drop off, but you still get 3%/3% to both, which is still nice. Then, Dual Threat IV and V jumps back up to 5% a piece for seven points each. If you want high critical chance, Dual Threat becomes much more appealing. Thanks, Dudis!)

Ignore Pain - If you have extra points, go for it. Can't really argue against in-combat self-heals. Combine it with Health Potions to give yourself an edge.

Mastery of Concentration - Take MoC I at the very least for being able to interrupt while being smacked around. More MoC only adds to damage, not the duration, and your spells don't hit as hard as Runemaster or Spiritmaster spells. They will, however, still interrupt enemy healers and casters and infuriate them to no end.

Mastery of Arms/Art - Faster melee/casting is always good, but this seems like a rather low priority RA considering what else you need to get first.

Determination - Now here is the contentious one. For Thanes (who do NOT get Stoicism), it's either none or Det9. Yeah, getting stunned for the full 9 second duration is poop, but having 34 (Correction - 22, not 34. Thanks, Dudis.) Realm Points to spend on other things is nice, and you have a lot to get. Personal preference. If you absolutely cannot stand being mezzed/stunned/rooted for too long, get it. Otherwise, I suggest you spend your valuable points on something else. (Edit: Though, now that I know it's 22 and not 34, Determination looks a lot more appealing.)

The Rest... - When you have free points and have everything else at what you want, feel free to grab additional RAs based on personal preference. Mastery of Blocking and Parrying are always nice, and Raging Power is handy when you're AoE Hammering in desperate last-ditch keep defence and really need that power for a couple more casts. Serenity is always handy for regenerating power, and Mystic Crystal Lore will help between fights where rapid movement is key.


Conclusion:
I hope this guide helped some new Thanes understand their role and abilities, as well as answer some of the basic questions that they may have had. Just remember our credo - DON'T BREAK MEZ!

...and if you see a tall, blonde Norsewoman named Aesa running around in RvR, be sure to do a /kiss.

See you in the Frontiers, Sons and Daughters of Thor.

(* - opinion is 100% biased)
Tue 9 Apr 2019 4:11 AM by Liandrin
Nice work!
Tue 9 Apr 2019 6:30 AM by Lanfear
I totally support this! Aesa is maybe the best Thane we have!
Tue 9 Apr 2019 6:38 AM by dudis
Nice write-up, just a few things i'd like to add or correct though.

1) DET 9 is only 22 points here. Take it if you plan on doing any grouping
2) Static Tempest also resets stun immunity, meaning you can slam someone again and again. It's super strong and a must have for any thane. I'd advice against getting more than rank 1 though, except maybe for zerg-fights in chokepoints (milegates/sieges)
3) Dual Threat is equal or better return on investment at certain points, for example if you want to go more than Wild Power 5.
4) Dont forget about Serenity 1 and MCL 1. Those have good return on investment in any fight that lasts more than a minute.

Also in general:

Most likely you will be protecting your support in groups, using Guard, Slam and snare styles. A thane will never deal amazing melee damage in this era of daoc, so focus on what you do well. Solo is another story as you wont be freecasting a lot.
Tue 9 Apr 2019 7:14 AM by Arshesmaral
Lanfear wrote:
Tue 9 Apr 2019 6:30 AM
I totally support this! Aesa is maybe the best Thane we have!

While I appreciate the sentiment, I am nowhere near the best Thane.



dudis wrote: Nice write-up, just a few things i'd like to add or correct though.

1) DET 9 is only 22 points here. Take it if you plan on doing any grouping
2) Static Tempest also resets stun immunity, meaning you can slam someone again and again. It's super strong and a must have for any thane. I'd advice against getting more than rank 1 though, except maybe for zerg-fights in chokepoints (milegates/sieges)
3) Dual Threat is equal or better return on investment at certain points, for example if you want to go more than Wild Power 5.
4) Dont forget about Serenity 1 and MCL 1. Those have good return on investment in any fight that lasts more than a minute.

Also in general:

Most likely you will be protecting your support in groups, using Guard, Slam and snare styles. A thane will never deal amazing melee damage in this era of daoc, so focus on what you do well. Solo is another story as you wont be freecasting a lot.

• Ah, I was looking at the character planner's top row for 34, not Determinations own little row where it says 22. Thank you for the correction, I'd edit the original post right away.
• Static Tempest is indeed awesome, but I didn't know about the Stun Immunity reset. I'll add that, too.
• Yeah, after Wild Power V/Mastery of Pain V, Dual Threat looks a whole like more enticing.
• Serenity is amazing. Aesa herself runs Serenity II. I can't believe I forgot all about it. Mystic Crystal Lore would be a good investment with spare points, too.
• Thank you so much for your suggestions.
Tue 9 Apr 2019 7:55 AM by Kampfar
Tldr but looks decent
Tue 9 Apr 2019 5:50 PM by TXRazor
What is the recommended stat point allotment for a troll?
Tue 9 Apr 2019 6:22 PM by Weewolf
Dang it Aesa! Now you made me go and roll a thane, dwarf of course.
Tue 9 Apr 2019 7:49 PM by Arshesmaral
TXRazor wrote:
Tue 9 Apr 2019 5:50 PM
What is the recommended stat point allotment for a troll?


Truthfully, I'd go the same on all races - 10 Strength, 10 Constitution, and 10 Piety. You could make the argument for a Troll to go with more Dexterity or Quickness instead, but I feel the other three are more essential.
Fri 12 Apr 2019 5:06 PM by giodeth
Does anybody know how much block % chance increases for each point of shield spec? Same Q for parry.
Fri 12 Apr 2019 5:29 PM by Ashenspire
10 con is 36 HP for a Thane. That's it. There are better stats to put those 10 points into.

10 dexterity, on the other hand, increases both your dps and your defenses. It is arguably the most important stat to put points into at creation because you do not get it as you gain levels.

Then you have the other 2 stats you need as a Thane. Quickness is a straight up melee dps increase, whereas Piety only increases power pool and casting damage. Depending on what you think you're going to do more of, pick your poison.
Fri 12 Apr 2019 7:03 PM by giodeth
Ashenspire wrote:
Fri 12 Apr 2019 5:29 PM
10 con is 36 HP for a Thane. That's it. There are better stats to put those 10 points into.

10 dexterity, on the other hand, increases both your dps and your defenses. It is arguably the most important stat to put points into at creation because you do not get it as you gain levels.

Then you have the other 2 stats you need as a Thane. Quickness is a straight up melee dps increase, whereas Piety only increases power pool and casting damage. Depending on what you think you're going to do more of, pick your poison.

Does quickness actually increase melee dps? I always thought that your dps was actually reduced based on your quickness, and that it is really just useful for additional proc chances.
Fri 12 Apr 2019 7:34 PM by chryso
giodeth wrote:
Fri 12 Apr 2019 7:03 PM
Ashenspire wrote:
Fri 12 Apr 2019 5:29 PM
10 con is 36 HP for a Thane. That's it. There are better stats to put those 10 points into.

10 dexterity, on the other hand, increases both your dps and your defenses. It is arguably the most important stat to put points into at creation because you do not get it as you gain levels.

Then you have the other 2 stats you need as a Thane. Quickness is a straight up melee dps increase, whereas Piety only increases power pool and casting damage. Depending on what you think you're going to do more of, pick your poison.

Does quickness actually increase melee dps? I always thought that your dps was actually reduced based on your quickness, and that it is really just useful for additional proc chances.

I believe quickness will reduce your damage PER HIT but you will swing faster such that over a given period of time you will get more swings in which would be a net increase in damage.
Fri 12 Apr 2019 7:42 PM by Ashenspire
giodeth wrote:
Fri 12 Apr 2019 7:03 PM
Ashenspire wrote:
Fri 12 Apr 2019 5:29 PM
10 con is 36 HP for a Thane. That's it. There are better stats to put those 10 points into.

10 dexterity, on the other hand, increases both your dps and your defenses. It is arguably the most important stat to put points into at creation because you do not get it as you gain levels.

Then you have the other 2 stats you need as a Thane. Quickness is a straight up melee dps increase, whereas Piety only increases power pool and casting damage. Depending on what you think you're going to do more of, pick your poison.

Does quickness actually increase melee dps? I always thought that your dps was actually reduced based on your quickness, and that it is really just useful for additional proc chances.

Quickness is absolutely a damage increase unless you only hit something once, which isn't a realistic expectations so the frontloading with 0 quickness mentality of flawed.

Quickness reduces your unstyled damage, but doesn't reduce style damage.

Quick maffs:

Without quickness -

100 base damage. 50 bonus damage from style. 3 second delay = 100 + 50 damage/3s = 50 DPS.

With 10% haste from quickness -

100 base damage * .9, 50 bonus damage from style, 3 second delay *.9 = ((100*.9)+50) damage/(3*.9)s = 140/2.7 = 51.85 DPS.
Wed 8 May 2019 11:35 PM by goofyman
Great guide ! Question because I'm having a super hard time finding . Are there any "must" feather items to get when templating a thane?

Thanks !
Fri 10 May 2019 11:55 AM by Andonis
Great guide thank you very much for the effort! that said my only suggestion would be to add a small section for what stats a Thane wants to try to max and why, after not playing a thane since release this guide has helped me tremendously but I am still clueless on what to aim for a temp =p
Tue 1 Oct 2019 3:31 PM by gotwqqd
Do you really need hammer rear style with shield styles?
I like axe overall and would rather have stormbringer than moljnir
Sat 12 Oct 2019 1:57 PM by watbrif
Which RA would you get first, after LW/Tireless ? I suspect I will mostly be doing zerg... Tempest/MoC/Mastery of Focus? Save up for Purge 2?

Also, is there any point going 50 in shield? Like 50 SC/ 50 shield?
Sat 12 Oct 2019 2:48 PM by gotwqqd
I think 50 shield hurts your weapon too much
Level in the frontiers and save snow for turn in after 35
Participate from 35 on with realms tasks when you can
This way by the time you reach 50 you should have enough for purge2, LW, tireless and ST
Sun 8 Dec 2019 1:56 PM by Noleran
What about reduce Hammerspec with RR?
If you got RR6 is there an option to lower Hammer to 35 or 36 with +16 to have 51 or 52 Hammer?
Or is 39+16= 55 Hammer that more dmg/hitchance?

The points are left can maybe be spend to parry for some more value...
Sun 8 Dec 2019 3:00 PM by Mavella
Noleran wrote:
Sun 8 Dec 2019 1:56 PM
What about reduce Hammerspec with RR?
If you got RR6 is there an option to lower Hammer to 35 or 36 with +16 to have 51 or 52 Hammer?
Or is 39+16= 55 Hammer that more dmg/hitchance?

The points are left can maybe be spend to parry for some more value...

There will be more dmg and hit chance beyond comp 52 spec because the thane does not have an advanced weapon line like LA to use styles from. If you don't want the 39 style in hammer you can retain 100% base damage with comp 52 in hammer but lose a little bit of spec bonus dmg. It's not much but something. The extra few % parry you'd get as a trade off could certainly be more effective for you.
Sun 8 Dec 2019 3:24 PM by Noleran
There will be more dmg and hit chance beyond comp 52 spec because the thane does not have an advanced weapon line like LA to use styles from. If you don't want the 39 style in hammer you can retain 100% base damage with comp 52 in hammer but lose a little bit of spec bonus dmg. It's not much but something. The extra few % parry you'd get as a trade off could certainly be more effective for you.

That means hit chance is cap out with 52 Weaponline?
Sun 8 Dec 2019 5:18 PM by Mavella
Noleran wrote:
Sun 8 Dec 2019 3:24 PM
There will be more dmg and hit chance beyond comp 52 spec because the thane does not have an advanced weapon line like LA to use styles from. If you don't want the 39 style in hammer you can retain 100% base damage with comp 52 in hammer but lose a little bit of spec bonus dmg. It's not much but something. The extra few % parry you'd get as a trade off could certainly be more effective for you.

That means hit chance is cap out with 52 Weaponline?

The hit penalty/bonus with weapon spec is something unique to Phoenix as far as I'm aware. With low weapon spec it's about 18% miss chance. Increasing spec lowers it down to the 15% range.

You could test this by auto attacking a dummy with an axe then a hammer to see the to hit difference been 1 spec and 39 spec for instance. Style hit bonuses will further lower this miss chance by 5ish 10ish and 15ish for low/med/high. Enemy defense bonuses can negate your style bonuses. Enemies using styles with defense penalties will also be easier to hit. An assassin spamming garrote will be about 10% easier to hit for instance.

Differences in weapon spec will also vary your chance to penetrate evade/parry/block slightly as well.
Sun 8 Dec 2019 5:51 PM by Noleran
Its rly interesting to know. But very hard to get some numbers to get an idea how is the way to spec exactly
Sun 8 Dec 2019 8:04 PM by ColdHands
It would be worth nothing next to Slam how long the stun immunity duration is and that Numb may be a good way to get someone to blow their purge.
Sun 8 Dec 2019 8:18 PM by gotwqqd
ColdHands wrote:
Sun 8 Dec 2019 8:04 PM
It would be worth nothing next to Slam how long the stun immunity duration is and that Numb may be a good way to get someone to blow their purge.

Immunity is 6x duration
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