Incentivise BG's - Phoenix Freeshard

1)Make bg's a place of more experience as a way to make the journey to 50 easier.
2) allow players to make a bg character that they can play only in a given bg.Turn off xp or rp points that would force departure.

Thu 19 Jul 2018 7:26 PM by Tyton

Pretty sure there's an xp bonus and you can turn off xp as it is now.

Fri 20 Jul 2018 9:20 AM by

Uthred

We dont have any plans to implement more than those 3 BGs. There should be the FZ bonus in BGs too. If it isnt, then open a bug report pls. Reason for "only" having 3 BGs is, that we want people to take part in the big rvr and not only creating one BG toon after the other. We understand BGs as a little help on your way to lvl 50 and that you dont have to enter the FZ with RR 1L1. But we dont like the idea of people only playing in BGs. This will only split the population and that is something what we believe is a bad thing.

Fri 20 Jul 2018 10:59 AM by relvinian

Can already xp and rp off

30% bs on bgs and they are often empty.

That being said, I think you could put more bg in, like 35 to 39 and the 40 to 44 bg. What would it hurt?

Tweak ur caps down so that 4l0 or so is the 44 cap. If it is an issue that concerns u a a lot then just add the 35 to 39 bg .
All ur bgs are copies of other bgs. The 44 bg won't steal people from 50 rvr and it will help people to be able to xp longer in the bg.

I like bgs myself. I like to pug it up or solo. I like to get the xp bonus and the rps.

Even if there do exist players who prefer bgs to big boy rvr then it doesn't actually harm the server. It actually helps. When you login and there are 100 people playing in the bgs that is 100 more people on server population. If the people that like bgs can't play them, maybe they stop playing.

The whole concept of max population equals max choice equals max fun equals long lasting thriving server which loops itself. You want fun fun fun. Not just the fun you like but the fun that everyone likes. And not everyone likes the same thing.

BTW, sometimes the biggest tether or leash isn't a leash, it is a great big yard to run in.

Fri 20 Jul 2018 1:38 PM by Tyton

Relv I agree with you on having choices in game, and the freedom to play where you want - but I think they should just stay with the BGs they have now for the same reason Uthred just said: population splitting. If people want to take part in the BGs, let them do it in those few (which also should make them more popular than if there were 6 or 7). If you add Lions Den or a Killaloe, now some of those players that would've been in Thid would potentially just scatter into the other 2 just because they don't feel like getting levels.

Keep how it is IMO. We got what we wanted: the ability to play BGs with teleporter, healer, XP/RP off, XP bonus, etc. It's more than enough.

Fri 20 Jul 2018 3:22 PM by aso

Shadanwolf wrote: ↑
Thu 19 Jul 2018 6:15 PM
2) allow players to make a bg character that they can play only in a given bg.Turn off xp or rp points that would force departure.

never try to force ppl to play a certain playstyle
we have all seen where that ends, *uth* *live*

if someone wants to play JUST bg, let him
you can MAYBE ask your self why he just plays there

Fri 20 Jul 2018 8:14 PM by sebbo

Best idea ever. There´s 3 BG´s that are empty most of the time.
So, what should we do? Right! Add more BG´s!

Fri 20 Jul 2018 8:35 PM by Quik

For me they are empty because I don't like those levels of BG's.

I prefer the sub20 bg's a lot simply because it is such a FFA.

This is ok but after that people start taking them way to seriously and I don't need that until big boy RvR.

Fri 20 Jul 2018 9:13 PM by Tyton

I don't mind having the others - I just didn't think it was necessary. If a lot of people say it is, doesn't bother me. Just figured we'd focus on getting people into the one(s) we have first. It's also beta so BG is a pretty low priority.

I'd personally like a BG to hang out in when I don't have much playing time or just feel like messing around (aka not serious like someone said here). I've always thought of 20-24 Thid (back on old live) as a great place to do that. Although they had /20 (something I don't want here) so that's probably why it was so popular back then. Either way, if people want to play BGs, let them. I know guys that just like to do that more than anything - I don't get it but the alternative (removing them/making them not appealing) makes dudes like that not even play. When you start making parts of the game obsolete, it loses flavor (see: i50/no PvE servers, Uthgard 2 BGs, etc). Personally I like to do it all - and the less I can do, the less I play. I don't think we'll have that problem on Phoenix though so for now I'm not worried. /rant

Fri 20 Jul 2018 9:25 PM by Quik

Tyton wrote: ↑
Fri 20 Jul 2018 9:13 PM
I don't mind having the others - I just didn't think it was necessary. If a lot of people say it is, doesn't bother me. Just figured we'd focus on getting people into the one(s) we have first.It's also beta so BG is a pretty low priority.

I'd personally like a BG to hang out in when I don't have much playing time or just feel like messing around (aka not serious like someone said here). I've always thought of 20-24 Thid (back on old live) as a great place to do that. Although they had /20 (something I don't want here) so that's probably why it was so popular back then. Either way, if people want to play BGs, let them. I know guys that just like to do that more than anything - I don't get it but the alternative (removing them/making them not appealing) makes dudes like that not even play. When you start making parts of the game obsolete, it loses flavor (see: i50/no PvE servers, Uthgard 2 BGs, etc). Personally I like to do it all - and the less I can do, the less I play. I don't think we'll have that problem on Phoenix though so for now I'm not worried. /rant

I think that sums it up more than anything.

I think most hardcore players are rushing to 50 to do RvR and I figure a lot of casuals are changing classes so often that barely hit 20 on 1-2 toons.

Also, the negative side of xp gains here, its easy to outlvl thid because you don't want to leave a group. Heck I got my shaman in a good group at lvl 7 and we didn't stop until 32. It took a solid half a day of non stop pulling that was fun and hectic. The problem was, I was hoping to play buffer in thid but didn't want to quit the group LOL

Fri 20 Jul 2018 11:02 PM by Tyton

Actually it doesn't seem like /rp off works even though the system says it does?

Sat 21 Jul 2018 5:52 PM by Isavyr

Quik wrote: ↑
Fri 20 Jul 2018 9:25 PM
Also, the negative side of xp gains here, its easy to outlvl thid because you don't want to leave a group. Heck I got my shaman in a good group at lvl 7 and we didn't stop until 32. It took a solid half a day of non stop pulling that was fun and hectic. The problem was, I was hoping to play buffer in thid but didn't want to quit the group LOL

This makes me wonder if it's technically feasible to make every character inside a BG treated as the same level in terms of resists and damage advantage.

The levels make such a big difference that people that are leveling characters are less inclined to want to do the BG until they are max level, if the opportunity exists.

This would almost solely benefit those that are leveling characters, as permanent characters will leave an XP group at 35 to do Caledonia, and maximize their level to have the most skill points and HP.

Sat 21 Jul 2018 6:32 PM by Quik

Which is what generally happens.

If there was a way to make all health and resists like you mentioned it might help.

I myself never cared.

Honestly I would prefer to have BG's every 5 levels starting from 1-5/6-10/11-15 etc all the way to 40 or 45. I love leveling in BG's and when people get used to others being there they tend to get more popular IF you make them worth their while. Meaning make the mobs worth enough XP to encourage people to get the same xp their as they would in FZ. No grey ganking to worry about would encourage more casuals to play there and at least taste RvR and get them hooked.

Make CK's worth good RP's and make defending CK's even better xp. Give people a reason to take CK's and HOLD them rather then just trade it.

Make mobs of all levels so you can level exclusively in BG's if you want. Don't make it so you outlevel all the mobs. If you are worried about people staying in BG's then don't allow /rp or /xp off. Make them outlevel it, but help us that want to level in the BG's and have fun while doing it.

I begged for changes on Genesis and they refused to consider it only to change their minds when it was too late and people were leaving.

I truly believe you could get some healthy RvR going for lower levels if you gave people a reason to do it.

Not giving them options in order to force them to big boy RvR will end up just casuing boredom as people try to lvl in FZ or DF waiting to be ganked.

Cap health and resists if you can so there is no reason to template for BG's or something but give us a reason to go there.

Sat 21 Jul 2018 6:57 PM by Tyton

Quik wrote: ↑
Sat 21 Jul 2018 6:32 PM
Make mobs of all levels so you can level exclusively in BG's if you want. Don't make it so you outlevel all the mobs. If you are worried about people staying in BG's then don't allow /rp or /xp off. Make them outlevel it, but help us that want to level in the BG's and have fun while doing it.

I begged for changes on Genesis and they refused to consider it only to change their minds when it was too late and people were leaving.
I truly believe you could get some healthy RvR going for lower levels if you gave people a reason to do it.

Genesis didn't have /xp or /rp off. Honestly, I'd just rather they have those options here. Totally sucks when you're having fun in BG with your group and couple people rp out and you can't finish what you started. I RP'd out of Thid in on afternoon so I don't think faster RPs is the issue. Personally, IDK what the big deal is if people want to turn off RP leave some toons there. Only point I hear against is what you just said Quik, "make them outlevel it" and continue on, but we all saw how "making" someone play a certain way panned out on previous servers. (Dudes just left.) I like to have a few 50s, if I don't get group/etc, I log in to craft, if I'm tired of crafting, I log a BG toon, if it's dead, I try to find raid or level a new toon, etc, etc. Better to have options - if you can lvl and rp out of a BG in one day, I get the feeling they'll never be all that healthy IMO.

People can say DAOC is about this thing or that thing, but when it really comes down to it, it's about everything the game offers. Otherwise everyone would just be begging for i50 and free temps and have at it. If you try to force people to do something specific (see Uthgard) you just lose people. I hope this is the server that finally understands that. Uthgard 1 messed with QOL on lvl49 Thid to force people to RvR sooner, people quit instead. Genesis started messing with BGs later on to get people to RvR, they didn't RvR they also quit. Uthgard 2 purposely made BGs suck ass to force RvR, no need to explain what happened there.

Sat 21 Jul 2018 7:27 PM by relvinian

You can't make people buy your brand in the marketplace of ideas. You have to sell them something they want.

Sat 21 Jul 2018 8:20 PM by Numatic

The BG's were not meant as they turned out on live. They were meant to be a stepping stone to RvR. The reason they became so popular is because it gave the casuals the ability to RvR and not requiring the meta. You could find all manner of playstyle in the BGs. Solo, smallman, 8 man, zerg etc.

This is why they became so popular. Because of that, they added xp off and rp off commands. That in itself tells you that people had so much fun that they would forgo rewards just to stay there.

This wasn't a problem of the BGs. It was indicative of a problem with end game RvR. I don't think xp off or rp off should be in. Personally I think they should have a level 50 BG with no rp off or xp off command to see how it does. It could be very enlightening on seeing how RvR could be.

Sat 21 Jul 2018 8:28 PM by Quik

relvinian wrote: ↑
Sat 21 Jul 2018 7:27 PM
You can't make people buy your brand in the marketplace of ideas. You have to sell them something they want.

Which is why it scares me anytime a server tries to "force" people into big boy rvr. I think it hurt Genesis and I think it hurt Uth2.

Instead of trying to force people to 50, offer them more like a better selection of BG's and leveling choices. If people enjoy the lower level things they can do it just makes them want to come back. Let them gravitate to 50 at their own pace.

I remember talking to Bomb about being 50 or just leveling alts. Bomb absolutely thinks 50 and RvR is the only point of the game, which I'm sure it is for him. Lots of people feel that way and that is why you see so many people in beta just grinding to 50 asap and outleveling other people. I applaud it and I hope everyone who does it has fun...BUT the most popular MMO in existence is WoW hands down. They are the most popular because they focused on making the game fun for everyone INCLUDING the casual and not alienating them.

I really think Phoenix could be a popular server for many years if they try to help everyone have fun not just the elitists. I don't mean elitist in a bad way either, I mean it as someone who wants to be great at something and wants to be better then others. Of course we all want to win, but some people put more focus into it. The game will not have as many elitists as casuals until it becomes what Uth2 became which is 200 people on at prime time. Yes you obviously want the game to be about RvR and you should encourage people to get to big boy rvr, but at the same time the game is also about PvE. The game has a LOT more pve zones than RvR zones. Let people enjoy whatever aspect they want.

A casual will jump on and play for a few hours. A casual will also be a bit hesitant to do much RvR because it can be intimidating. It doesn't help when they hear that xp is great in FZ or DF and they get ganked when they explore or go with a more experienced player. I know a lot of people even in the game now that I have tried to get to go to DF or FZ for xp and I am told they don't want to because they will simply get ganked. Personally I don't care because you just rez and come back or try elsewhere, but if you only have a few hours it gets frustrating.

I bring up that point not because I hate grey ganking, I bring it up to try to encourage BG's more.

BG's every4-5 levels keeps it semi close and it eliminates outright ganking. Now if a casual gets with an experienced player and they hit the BG's and they get into an actual fight, now they can live longer then 1-2 hits or may not have to worry about being mezzed everytime they see an enemy. Now they start to see how the game can be fun in RvR. They start to get hooked and they do it more. They start to be a little more comfortable which leads them to do more RvR and hopefully takes them to 50 and the big boy areas.

Instead of just trying to force someone who may not be comfortable, lets try to help them enjoy ALL aspects of the game and get them to WANT to play in big boy rvr.

History shows that forcing people into 50 rvr is not healthy for a server.

Sat 21 Jul 2018 8:48 PM by Tyton

I'm not sure about the 50 BG thing - I think you leave 50s to frontier and/or events (like today).

But I have to agree with Quik. We don't want history to repeat itself. I'm pretty easy going personally I'll deal with a lot just to play some daoc - but the guys I play with straight quit Gene/Uth because of team trying to force 1 specific play style (among other things). PvE is very important too - something I'm glad Phoenix is working on - we'll have to see how the whole feather thing works out.