Changes to Warden - Phoenix Freeshard

With the changes to Friar, I would like to suggest some needed changes to Warden.

On top of the base friar:
Friar has Damage on par with VW
Cure NS
group offensive group heal proc
Cleric strength heals

I would like to suggest the needed changes to Warden:
Give wardens increased skill points (1.8 factor)
Give wardens shield spec
Give wardens group Celerity buff (18, 26, 35, 47)
Give Wardens NS Cure (6s only) (20 in regrowth)

This would bring Warden more in line with what friars and Shaman offer to their respective realms and make a place for them among Hibernian healers.

Thu 21 Mar 2019 5:15 PM by kedelin

Patchnotes wrote: ↑
Thu 21 Mar 2019 4:55 PM
With the changes to Friar, I would like to suggest some needed changes to Warden.

On top of the base friar:
Friar has Damage on par with VW
Cure NS
group offensive group heal proc
Cleric strength heals

I would like to suggest the needed changes to Warden:
Give wardens increased skill points (1.8 factor)
Give wardens shield spec
Give wardens group Celerity buff (18, 26, 35, 47)
Give Wardens NS Cure (6s only) (20 in regrowth)

This would bring Warden more in line with what friars and Shaman offer to their respective realms and make a place for them among Hibernian healers.

You are not serious are you??? Warden is already I. A good spot... I would say give them shield but stay at 1.5 spec.... so you have to give something up to get slam.. as is warden can peel get red bubble, red resist, awesome heals...

Also I believe if you do give wardens shield you would need to lower shaman cart to 17 cave so shamans can actually spec decent mend...

If you give wardens celerity shamans should get damage reflect at 35 aug.. and give friars demezz

Thu 21 Mar 2019 5:28 PM by Patchnotes

As of right now, Warden has no real spot in hib group. small man or 8man. they have no purpose to the group that is more needed than bard speed and double druids once you get bard and double druid then the rest needs to be DPS/peels and wardens just cant bring enough to take one of those spots.

I believe Friar has a reason to at least be there now with the changes
Shaman is always in the mid group because of endu buff pbaoe disease and resist buffs
Warden is just not there for any reason

Thu 21 Mar 2019 5:45 PM by Pirhana7

Patchnotes wrote: ↑
Thu 21 Mar 2019 5:28 PM
As of right now, Warden has no real spot in hib group. small man or 8man. they have no purpose to the group that is more needed than bard speed and double druids once you get bard and double druid then the rest needs to be DPS/peels and wardens just cant bring enough to take one of those spots.

I believe Friar has a reason to at least be there now with the changes
Shaman is always in the mid group because of endu buff pbaoe disease and resist buffs
Warden is just not there for any reason

Not sure what you are talking about but Hib groups will always take Wardens for PBT, Red resists, base buffs, D add, and back up heals. The only problem wardens have is that groups will ONLY take healer Wardens.

I would like to see Wardens get their melee damage increased, Instead of spec points and shields spec I would rather see Warden get access to Celtic Spear or LW so they can do 2hand damage like friars and compete better in the melee game.

Thu 21 Mar 2019 5:49 PM by Yokahu

Patchnotes wrote: ↑
Thu 21 Mar 2019 4:55 PM
With the changes to Friar, I would like to suggest some needed changes to Warden.

On top of the base friar:
Friar has Damage on par with VW
Cure NS
group offensive group heal proc
Cleric strength heals

I would like to suggest the needed changes to Warden:
Give wardens increased skill points (1.8 factor)
Give wardens shield spec
Give wardens group Celerity buff (18, 26, 35, 47)
Give Wardens NS Cure (6s only) (20 in regrowth)

This would bring Warden more in line with what friars and Shaman offer to their respective realms and make a place for them among Hibernian healers.

If this wasn’t in the “suggestions” forum (where you can suggest any silly thing) I would consider this a troll post.

Thu 21 Mar 2019 7:01 PM by Kampfar

Come on, can someone pls suggest shield spec for 1342th time, ofc with more specpoints

Sat 23 Mar 2019 12:30 AM by Milchschnidde

The Warden simply just does need 0.5 more skillpoint increase, in the current gameplay the warden can only choose between support - support healer (single spec and cure spells) or support -support dmg (join the assist train), "buffline is meta - resis and bladeturn/dmg add." Any support-heal bard is better at healing -spec party heal cure and demezz and any other melee is better at dealing dmg. The only reason a warden is taken to the grp are resistence buffs, bubble and thornweed field. He has a damn high mana consumption, his auto-bladeturn drains his mana empty, he drops 2-3 heals and he runs oom - that is another issue.

-give him the ability to intercept atacks - so he can play a more protective role for caster and other supporters,
-increase his skill points to a 2.0 multiplier.
-reduce the mana consumption of Bladeturn chant - not having pom or serenity doesnt cause him to run oom, so he doesent need to skill serenity too keep the mana drain at least even.
-add a dmg add that is castable similar to the castable Bladeturn and that stacks up with the dmg add chant so for example a 5.0 + 7,5 chant dmg add. (so he would automatic increase his dmg by switching to the dmg add or leave the 5.0 dmg add alone - still would give him a small dmg increase ) - still in the supporter table in terms of weaponskill and chance to hit..
-dont need to give him shild spec, simply allow him to use a large shild and to block for an ally (Guard 1-2), so his support role would be strenghten by not giving him a to mighty skill (slam and increased block chance by default, just give him the option to skill mastery of block).

-grant him access to a 30-50% instant rezz when skilling 40+ into regrowth (battle rezz but with usual sick).

Just my thoughts about some warden optimizations. He doenst need many tweaks but his role fits in between the albion paladin and the friars. There should be a good reason to take a warden into group - in his current stateHe is not a good healer, not a good fighter, he is not a good dmg dealer. He is a bad Jack of all trades reduced to 2-3 ability's - which are just "nice to have" nothing more in my opinion.

Just in case a dev reads this post - I would add the intercept to a requirement of having 5 in parrry, guard 1 at 10 parry and guard 2 at 15 parry.

Sat 23 Mar 2019 9:31 AM by Muse

Never Seen so many Suggestion. Open your one Server with all that bullshit. Take it or leave it. lock this Thread pls

Sat 23 Mar 2019 9:54 AM by Lollie

Muse wrote: ↑
Sat 23 Mar 2019 9:31 AM
Never Seen so many Suggestion. Open your one Server with all that bullshit. Take it or leave it. lock this Thread pls

Heaven forbid people come up with suggestions in the suggestion forum. The devs ask for stuff like this, even if some of it is a bit far fetched.

Sat 23 Mar 2019 3:07 PM by CronU

Warden is already strong as he is now. Yes he has to be a Support Warden, but i dont see any problems here.
He got Red PBT, Strong Heals, Det, AoTG, TWF and can peel.

At the current state every realm got (at least in my opinion) 4 must have slots to compete:

Alb:
Cleric, Cleric, Sorc, Minstrel - Speed, All Spec and Basebuffs, Main-CC, SOS (+ 2 Pets)

Mid:
Aug-Healer, Pac-Healer, Shaman, Skald - All Spec and Basebuffs, Speed, Main-CC, SOS (+ Endu, Cele)

Hib:
Bard, Druid, Druid, Warden - All Spec and Basebuffs, Speed, Main-CC, SOS (+ PBT, Endu, 2 Pets)

Every combination has up and downsides. But thats what a real Realmdiffrence is about.
Every of those combination has 1 Melee that deals semi dmg, but they all are not used as a dmg dealer. Skald and Minstrels are Ruptbots, while the Warden is a Snare/Healbot.

The current #1 Player by Realmpoints Efke is a Warden. I doubt that he thinks the Warden needs a Change. As an Enemy who played alot against his group i def. can say the Warden is an essential part of the grpsetup, and a big reason why they win so many fights.

Sat 23 Mar 2019 3:17 PM by Fk_

Wardens are fine as they are. Any further buffs would make them borderline OP.

Sat 23 Mar 2019 4:13 PM by Raunz

This is the problem with the forums, people who have zero clue about the game are suggesting things that are just so insane i can't even believe it, it's like saying earth is flat....

Warden by far the most broken class there is on this server and you want buffs on it, big yikes

Sat 23 Mar 2019 4:14 PM by teiloh

Needed Changes to Minstrels:

Three Purple Pets
Dual Wield Polearms
Remove Power Cost and Cooldown on DDs
Permanent SoS

Sun 24 Mar 2019 12:24 AM by Milchschnidde

Raunz wrote: ↑
Sat 23 Mar 2019 4:13 PM
This is the problem with the forums, people who have zero clue about the game are suggesting things that are just so insane i can't even believe it, it's like saying earth is flat....

Warden by far the most broken class there is on this server and you want buffs on it, big yikes

Warden is far away from beeing broken, he has no real cc just 1 snare style and ra, no real good heals just a minor single spec heal just a baseline grp heal or any real good damage. You run in Hibernia with 4 supporter classes to just fill the resistance hole for cc with spirit,energy and body...without some of his RAs he would be total useless, the auto bladeturn is a great bonus but very mana-drainig. From my perspective as bard the warden is often first place in running oom.
You still need a real tank to do melee slam, caster stun is in general just around 4,5seconds so it just stops ppl from running away, hib caster do not have root - at least not the meta debuff train, without buffbots its hard to run nature druids...

I dont want to complain to much, in hibernia it very easy to run at least with base buffs because of 3 chars beeing able to buff them, but thats the speciality of the realm.
We played a lot in rvr and we did observe that having only 3 chars in the party doing assist train is pretty tight in the case of a caster assist train to kill fast enough.

Mon 25 Mar 2019 6:29 PM by Amp_Phetamine

Fk_ wrote: ↑
Sat 23 Mar 2019 3:17 PM
Wardens are fine as they are. Any further buffs would make them borderline OP.

This guy would know what he's talking about too, he's invested a little bit of time into one

. Close the thread!

Tue 26 Mar 2019 11:53 PM by rubaduck

Wardens are in a very good spot right now. Their spec heal is between the druids minor and major greater heal for 30 power which is a very good trade off when you need to focus heal. They have extreme utility in their resists, bubble, pbt and damage add chant as well as being a mediocre peeler with their 10 blades style.

I wouldn't be mad if they added cure NS, but Wardens doesn't need anything more then that if they get something at all.

Wed 27 Mar 2019 7:44 AM by

Uthred

There are no plans on changing the warden. It is one of the strongest classes on Phoenix and doesnt need any further buffs.

Wed 27 Mar 2019 1:11 PM by Milchschnidde

Uthred wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Mar 2019 7:44 AM
There are no plans on changing the warden. It is one of the strongest classes on Phoenix and doesnt need any further buffs.

If you change something, it doesnt mean it must be a buff something with a negative value -1 that is moved to 0 (neutral value) is not a buff in my opinion, its just a balance move, if you imbue something from beeing obvious balanced to a positive stat, then its a buff. I if its +1.

Chars that are strong in solo situations but poor in grp situations are balaced in my opinon, if you give them more party utility then they become +1. (buffed) because you didnt balance theire solo behavior.

Wed 27 Mar 2019 1:38 PM by Ashenspire

Milchschnidde wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Mar 2019 1:11 PM
Uthred wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Mar 2019 7:44 AM
There are no plans on changing the warden. It is one of the strongest classes on Phoenix and doesnt need any further buffs.

If you change something, it doesnt mean it must be a buff something with a negative value -1 that is moved to 0 (neutral value) is not a buff in my opinion, its just a balance move, if you imbue something from beeing obvious balanced to a positive stat, then its a buff. I if its +1.

Chars that are strong in solo situations but poor in grp situations are balaced in my opinon, if you give them more party utility then they become +1. (buffed) because you didnt balance theire solo behavior.

But wardens are very strong in both group and 1v1 situations. Wardens don't hit hard but they're a bitch to kill 1v1.

Wed 27 Mar 2019 1:40 PM by Ardri

Raunz wrote: ↑
Sat 23 Mar 2019 4:13 PM
This is the problem with the forums, people who have zero clue about the game are suggesting things that are just so insane i can't even believe it, it's like saying earth is flat....

I see you've been reading your own posts again

But yes efke is right, wardens are already borderline op.

Wed 27 Mar 2019 2:00 PM by Milchschnidde

Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Mar 2019 1:38 PM
Milchschnidde wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Mar 2019 1:11 PM
Uthred wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Mar 2019 7:44 AM
There are no plans on changing the warden. It is one of the strongest classes on Phoenix and doesnt need any further buffs.

If you change something, it doesnt mean it must be a buff something with a negative value -1 that is moved to 0 (neutral value) is not a buff in my opinion, its just a balance move, if you imbue something from beeing obvious balanced to a positive stat, then its a buff. I if its +1.

Chars that are strong in solo situations but poor in grp situations are balaced in my opinon, if you give them more party utility then they become +1. (buffed) because you didnt balance theire solo behavior.

But wardens are very strong in both group and 1v1 situations. Wardens don't hit hard but they're a bitch to kill 1v1.

its not about beeing very strong, they are not as strong you thing, they maybe counter a friar or skald in duel (2H-Weapon, but still die easy on every assassin or DW char.

I wanted to say there is no room for a Warden to Spec 50 blunt and 42 regrowth, you have to spec Nurture, there is no other Option!!!

On the other side A friar could go Staff & Enhancement if he plays a side role in a party for DMG for example or Heal and buff for secondary healer or side healer.

Wed 27 Mar 2019 2:29 PM by Amp_Phetamine

Milchschnidde wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Mar 2019 2:00 PM
Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Mar 2019 1:38 PM
Milchschnidde wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Mar 2019 1:11 PM
If you change something, it doesnt mean it must be a buff something with a negative value -1 that is moved to 0 (neutral value) is not a buff in my opinion, its just a balance move, if you imbue something from beeing obvious balanced to a positive stat, then its a buff. I if its +1.

Chars that are strong in solo situations but poor in grp situations are balaced in my opinon, if you give them more party utility then they become +1. (buffed) because you didnt balance theire solo behavior.

But wardens are very strong in both group and 1v1 situations. Wardens don't hit hard but they're a bitch to kill 1v1.

its not about beeing very strong, they are not as strong you thing, they maybe counter a friar or skald in duel (2H-Weapon, but still die easy on every assassin or DW char.

I wanted to say there is no room for a Warden to Spec 50 blunt and 42 regrowth, you have to spec Nurture, there is no other Option!!!

On the other side A friar could go Staff & Enhancement if he plays a side role in a party for DMG for example or Heal and buff for secondary healer or side healer.

Stop trying to make all of the classes the same. Embrace what's unique.

Wed 27 Mar 2019 2:36 PM by Bradekes

Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Mar 2019 2:29 PM
Stop trying to make all of the classes the same. Embrace what's unique.

I think there would still be enough different between friar and warden to justify similar melee capabilities...

Like hero/armsman/warrior are the same and unique
Bm/zer/merc are the same but unique
Friars/warden are the same but unique

The difference is the first two set are on same damage table excluding warrior being it's defining feature between the three... The problem Wardens not doing anything better than Friars to make up for their lousy damage.. Someone said warden are hard to kill in other Warden thread but how is a Friar any easier to kill with Evade 5 which matches PBT in 1vs1 25%+dex/qui vs 25% 6s pbt w/1.5 second weapon speed which is 1 attack blocked out of 4.

Wed 27 Mar 2019 2:48 PM by Ashenspire

Bradekes wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Mar 2019 2:36 PM
Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Mar 2019 2:29 PM
Stop trying to make all of the classes the same. Embrace what's unique.

I think there would still be enough different between friar and warden to justify similar melee capabilities...

Like hero/armsman/warrior are the same and unique
Bm/zer/merc are the same but unique
Friars/warden are the same but unique

The difference is the first two set are on same damage table excluding warrior being it's defining feature between the three... The problem Wardens not doing anything better than Friars to make up for their lousy damage.. Someone said warden are hard to kill in other Warden thread but how is a Friar any easier to kill with Evade 5 which matches PBT in 1vs1 25%+dex/qui vs 25% 6s pbt w/1.5 second weapon speed which is 1 attack blocked out of 4.

If wardens had the same melee damage capability as a friar hib groups would be 8 naturalists.

They're entirely too strong on the defensive side to give them more offense. They're one of the most well balanced classes in the game. You're willing to die on a hill that doesn't exist

Wed 27 Mar 2019 3:13 PM by Ferboten

Milchschnidde wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Mar 2019 2:00 PM
its not about beeing very strong, they are not as strong you thing, they maybe counter a friar or skald in duel (2H-Weapon, but still die easy on every assassin or DW char.

I wanted to say there is no room for a Warden to Spec 50 blunt and 42 regrowth, you have to spec Nurture, there is no other Option!!!

On the other side A friar could go Staff & Enhancement if he plays a side role in a party for DMG for example or Heal and buff for secondary healer or side healer.

Hero is currently lacking the ability to play as a stealther, please give Hero stealth spec and more spec points to balance this

Wed 27 Mar 2019 4:46 PM by noflex

solo as a warden is rough, I made a firby with +18 str to try and offset some of the low dps.. it didn’t really help as ya I can sustain in a solo fight quite long with red pbt I ultimately end up dieing to pretty much anyone due to lack of dps.

It’s still fun to play but I have more fun on my solo friar since I can actually kill ppl on the friar

Wed 27 Mar 2019 7:10 PM by CLamoRR

honestly just cure NS would be a big help as hib can't run 2 40 cures atm with the way druid specs work out.

other suggestions are too much imo

Wed 27 Mar 2019 8:06 PM by The Skies Asunder

I would really like to see 1.8x skill points and shield spec, even if slam was nerfed to 5 seconds. Hell even take slam out of the warden shield line, and only give them positional/reactionary stuns. As for the others, they are a bit much. Especially celerity, without all the other things that were added to the game before Wardens got it.

Thu 28 Mar 2019 9:17 PM by longrb