Grey Ganking - Phoenix Freeshard

I understand it is something that has always happened, but if you are going to let people camp outside Castle Sauvage in Albion and just farm greys whenever they leave, you are going to have another issue.

Whether people want to admit it or not, this will drive away a lot of players who simply hate it.

FYI, Mid BD, has spend the day just killing greys whenever they leave and Albion doesn't have enough people who care to do much. he was killed few times but he just comes right back. He ignores the high lvls and just goes after the lowbies.

If you want to encourage realm loyalty that's great, but not sure this is going to get you the desired results.

Sat 14 Jul 2018 3:04 AM by Isavyr

Two questions:
[list=]Does it contribute to the counter for RvR titles?

Does it reward RP, even miniscule amounts?

[/list]

Sat 14 Jul 2018 3:20 AM by Quik

Too me the main question is simply...
If you stop grey ganking will you lose more people from being mad about not being able to, or will you keep more players who are happy you can't?

To me you won't lose anyone if you stop it, while you will keep a lot of people if you stop it.

Sat 14 Jul 2018 8:16 AM by Glimmer

Suggestion:
-1st stage of Lowbie Ganger, player need to kill 20 greys and receive this mark. Other players give message that lowbie killer is in that are and killing greys and is worth good reward like 2x more rps, 2x more bps, 2x more gold, will drop X phoenix feathers.

-2nd stage, 30 grey kills player is worth 3x more rps, 3x more bps, 3x more gold, will drop X phoenix feathers.

-3th stage, 40 grey kills or more is worth 4x more rps, 4x more bps, 4x more gold, will drop X phoenix feathers (and will be seen on map?)

Just my 2 cents

Sat 14 Jul 2018 11:09 AM by Ganaka

Most players are not elite. Most players are fodder.

Sat 14 Jul 2018 11:34 AM by relvinian

There needs to be no rps and no titles for grey players.

Sat 14 Jul 2018 12:11 PM by Magesty

It’s an RvR zone. Level in the normal zones if you don’t want to get ganked. There are massive camps that give great xp everywhere on this server. I really don’t understand how people justify whining about this. I think the players that choose to sit and kill greys over and over again are pretty lame, but it is part of the frontiers ecosystem. You don’t have a right to level in RvR zones unscathed.

That being said the idea of an alert/slight bonus in RP when players kill x amount of greys is a pretty cool idea. The downside of course is that slightly better players who want 1v1s or 2v1s are now incentivized to kill greys as it will draw out the lower quality players who sit around the main keeps playing Second Life on their other monitor or whatever it is that they do.

Sat 14 Jul 2018 12:25 PM by relvinian

I don't object to grey ganking, I object to titles and rps for grey ganking.

Sat 14 Jul 2018 1:10 PM by Mura

relvinian wrote: ↑
Sat 14 Jul 2018 11:34 AM
There needs to be no rps and no titles for grey players.

This wouldn't change anything. People who go out of their way to grey gank aren't doing it for rps or titles (generally speaking).

It's 100% about ruining somebody else's day and driving them back to the safe zone. There is a reason that you get significant bonus xp in contested areas.

Risk vs. reward

Sat 14 Jul 2018 1:39 PM by Quik

Well again the question quite simply is this:

Will you lose more players if you stop grey ganking then you will gain?

I don't care if you want to call them carebears or pansies or whatever. You can use the excuse all day about it being an rvr zone and you shouldn't be there if you can't handle it.

I myself will continue to go out and keep trying to level.

BTW, here is a big difference in how grey ganking works.

FYI last night simply camped the same area and killed all the grey lowbie who went out and hid from all the high lvl toons/groups, killing the greys over and over. That is the behavior that will lose players. An Elf name Zero killed our group once but then had enough decency to let us be while he went after the higher lvls.

Everyone who wants to sit there and say it is part of the game and if you don't like it then here is the door, this is one of those "grey" areas in the game that no one can prove, but if you don't think people quit because of this you are just blind or don't care. The minute you tell them "too bad" you lose players.

Is it REALLY worth losing players over such a stupid issue? This server will slowly become that elitist server we all know is dying right now (90 people on last night) instead of a server loaded with people who look forward to coming back every day and try to encourage friends to join.

Sat 14 Jul 2018 2:39 PM by Tree

Red=Dead. Period.

Sat 14 Jul 2018 2:59 PM by Quik

Tree wrote: ↑
Sat 14 Jul 2018 2:39 PM
Red=Dead. Period.

This is a great argument =)

Red = Dead is a perfect example of classic DAoC...which Phoenix is currently trying to change to a better system.

Red = Dead has a very good chance of killing off a small population of players, and the server can't afford to lose a small population.

And I am not saying to stop grey ganking, I am simply saying we need to figure out a way to discourage it a bit. DAoC is a GAME and a GAME is meant to be fun for everyone, not those elitists who want to feel good about themselves because they can wipe a group of greys.

Sat 14 Jul 2018 3:04 PM by Isavyr

I think you overestimate the amount of people that would quit over this, especially when there are many safe zones to XP. Furthermore, the frontier zone XP bonus makes no sense if there's no additional risk. That being said, I'm not a fan of people getting realmpoints, or titles, from killing greys. I've been in groups where people have killed grays for this reason solely. Therefore, it seems to increase the rate of killing greys.

So, let's assume these incentives affect the gray-killing rate. Do the developers know how much gray-killing they want? For example:

Frequent sweeps
Occasional sweeps
Rare sweeps

Removing the incentives would probably nudge it down the list slightly, which might be more favorable to some players. Also bear in mind this system isn't in a vacuum. From my own experience as infiltrator long ago, I'd go hunt lowbies when there were no fights to be had in the main frontier area. So if gray killing is at epidemic levels, it may be a symptom of something else not working right.

Sat 14 Jul 2018 3:10 PM by Quik

We don't know how many or if anyone does quit over this, and I mentioned that earlier.

I do think people turn a blind eye if you don't think people won't quit over something like this, but again maybe no one does.

And again, I am not saying make grey's unkillable. I am saying we need to figure out a way to discourage it if possible. If people seriously think it helps the game more then it hurts I beg you to come up with a pro vs cons list and see what comes up. The main thing is, it helps people get to 50 faster and easier which helps rvr. Killing them is discouraging them from hitting 50 as quickly. Also you are encouraging those classes like BD's to lvl to 50 fast just so they can farm greys.

I am hoping to get ideas that the staff might consider.

The very least should be no title and no rp's but we should be able to go a little farther.

With the Phoenix Eggs recently added and being such an incredible idea to help soloers, why not help the grey's a little?

Sat 14 Jul 2018 3:17 PM by Isavyr

To make a change, you first have to define your goal. If realm-killing was rare occasion, I'd be disappointed, as I love the challenge of hiding in the frontier and XPing. It adds a lot of excitement. So I would not want it to be removed altogether.

However, when it's Frequent, as happened on Uthgard, it largely killed frontier groups and people were generally unwilling to go out as it almost never paid off, and the all-too-frequent stress discouraged many players.

I think somewhere in-between is best. (Genesis 1.0 seemed to have this balancein my experience).

Sat 14 Jul 2018 3:56 PM by bamf

Just use Mordred style reward for RPs. Lvl 36 you are green to a 50. From 36+ you are worth.

As for preventing grey killing, hell no. Go xp somewhere else. Its a competetive game and if devs have to implement a system that you cant kill greys or whatever you are suggesting, it will be abused so hard with grey spybots in rvr.

If you quit this server because you got killed trying to go xp in rvr zone because its got a better xp rate, but too dumb to go elsewhere and level....you dont belong on this game/server anyhow.

Sat 14 Jul 2018 4:08 PM by Quik

bamf wrote: ↑
Sat 14 Jul 2018 3:56 PM
If you quit this server because you got killed trying to go xp in rvr zone because its got a better xp rate, but too dumb to go elsewhere and level....you dont belong on this game/server anyhow.

There it is, I knew it wouldn't take long.

This is Uthgards motto and now it is being brought to this server. If you don't like it then get the hell out.

As I stated earlier, I don't think grey's should be immune, but I do think they need to discourage killing greys.

If your argument is to tell them to leave though, damn I really hope this server isn't leaning that direction, but I did say this was coming. People from uth2 will be bringing this attitude and now the Dev's here need to decide what direction they want to go I guess.

I don't envy them at all LOL.

Sat 14 Jul 2018 4:12 PM by bamf

Quik wrote: ↑
Sat 14 Jul 2018 4:08 PM
bamf wrote: ↑
Sat 14 Jul 2018 3:56 PM
If you quit this server because you got killed trying to go xp in rvr zone because its got a better xp rate, but too dumb to go elsewhere and level....you dont belong on this game/server anyhow.

There it is, I knew it wouldn't take long.

This is Uthgards motto and now it is being brought to this server. If you don't like it then get the hell out.

As I stated earlier, I don't think grey's should be immune, but I do think they need to discourage killing greys.

If your argument is to tell them to leave though, damn I really hope this server isn't leaning that direction, but I did say this was coming. People from uth2 will be bringing this attitude and now the Dev's here need to decide what direction they want to go I guess.

I don't envy them at all LOL.

I say it because it is realistic. If you refuse to try to xp anywhere else then frontier or df and bitch because you get killed by other factions, you really are in the wrong game. You have the freedom to go to tons of other places for 30% less xp, which if soloing, the eggs make up for that with no penalty, no problem. You are makibg way to big a deal over something that can easily be avoided.

Sat 14 Jul 2018 4:29 PM by Quik

[/quote]I say it because it is realistic. If you refuse to try to xp anywhere else then frontier or df and bitch because you get killed by other factions, you really are in the wrong game. You have the freedom to go to tons of other places for 30% less xp, which if soloing, the eggs make up for that with no penalty, no problem. You are makibg way to big a deal over something that can easily be avoided.
[/quote]

Lets see...I think I have mentioned 3-4 times I think grey's should be killable. I tell people all the time about different camps. I spent most of my day yesterday in SI leveling. The eggs were awesome and I already sent a tell to Uthred saying that I thought they were the best idea to date on a server full of great ideas.

I have already covered what you just said.

I am simply saying there should be a way to discourage killing greys regardless.

You can argue the value of killing greys all you want.

I am making a suggestion to the dev's that they might want to try to help out with this issue.

They will either listen or not as is there right, just like it was on Uth2. I just hope they are aware of the attitude being brought from Uth2 and is already festering.

This server was designed as using classic as an idea and then adding QoL features to make it fun for everyone. Everyone, not just elitists who want to farm greys for whatever reason they give.

Sat 14 Jul 2018 5:02 PM by Magesty

The need to level in the frontiers simply isn’t as great on Phoenix. On Uthgard XPing in normal zones was brutal so a lot of people felt like they had to be getting the frontier bonus to make their time spent worthwhile. Phoenix doesn’t have that issue and it follows that groups will be more than content leveling in the MASSIVE camps in normal zones with their full suits of OP RoG gear.

This tread is a lot of complaining and oddly veiled threats of quitting/the population dying about a non-issue. Don’t level in the frontiers if you don’t want to risk getting killed. There is more than enough XP to be had in regular zones. It’s not dreadfully slow like Uthgard.

Should greys give RP? No. Should killing an enemy that doesn’t award RPs contribute to your title? Probably not. Do people really care that much about titles?

Sat 14 Jul 2018 5:23 PM by relvinian

Quik is a smart person who is trying to make a better meta for the server.

It doesn't take a whole lot of smarts to look at history and figure out what is good and what is bad.

But Quik can see that far.

I have played on pvp style servers since ultima online.

Siege perilous, angel island free server, and then andred, and gareth daoc live.

Then of course, history-- Uthgard 1, Uthgard 2, Genesis, etc.

I'm almost 50 years old, and such a loser, I played games like this for 20 years.

How many times do you break up groups and log out for grey gankers?

It is OK to die to grey gankers who get no title and no rps, but man, if you ENCOURAGE it by DESIGN?

This is the time to set the meta. This is the time to make positive or negative changes for the server which will decide how it does.

Sat 14 Jul 2018 5:55 PM by Quik

Magesty wrote: ↑
Sat 14 Jul 2018 5:02 PM
The need to level in the frontiers simply isn’t as great on Phoenix. On Uthgard XPing in normal zones was brutal so a lot of people felt like they had to be getting the frontier bonus to make their time spent worthwhile. Phoenix doesn’t have that issue and it follows that groups will be more than content leveling in the MASSIVE camps in normal zones with their full suits of OP RoG gear.

This tread is a lot of complaining and oddly veiled threats of quitting/the population dying about a non-issue. Don’t level in the frontiers if you don’t want to risk getting killed. There is more than enough XP to be had in regular zones. It’s not dreadfully slow like Uthgard.

Should greys give RP? No. Should killing an enemy that doesn’t award RPs contribute to your title? Probably not. Do people really care that much about titles?

I'm not talking doom and gloom.

I am simply hoping the dev's will make a change that I think has hurt a lot of servers in the past.

Am I asking for greys to be immune? Not at all.

Am I asking that no RP's and titles be given to grey gankers? At the very LEAST this should happen.

What am I asking for exactly? I don't know because this is a tough issue. I think Phoenix should go further then other servers have done and I personally think it will help keep a lot more players around if they can have more fun.

The Phoenix staff did a phenomenal job with the eggs for soloers. Honestly I was not expecting a fix at all, let alone this early in beta. The dev's here deserve some serious respect for their ingenuity on this one.

I personally am hoping that they can use that ingenuity to figure out some kind of system that discourages grey ganking.

Sat 14 Jul 2018 6:24 PM by bamf

I agree with the grey should offer no benefit. But i think it should stop there.

Sat 14 Jul 2018 10:33 PM by Shadanwolf

Ganking a grey should have no reward. that would go a ways to stopping some of it.

Sun 15 Jul 2018 12:09 AM by relvinian

Greys being worth rps and titles is putting the wolves first and the sheep 2nd, and we are farmers.

You need the sheep for your server. That is what uthgard got wrong. It isn't the elite hardcore which is the base of your server but it is the casual and the new blood coming in.

Sun 15 Jul 2018 12:23 AM by Budikah

No reward for killing a grey is a start.

Truth be told though, a grey character is still a set of eyes. It's still a potential interference at the wrong time.

Putting penalties for killing greys makes an odd situation where the grey character can antagonize people with and they suffer from killing that individual.

If you are going to suggest any penalties - make sure they don't allow the gray player to abuse others with their "protection".

I just tried to brainstorm a few things that would make grey ganking unattractive but having come from Ultima Online, I'm well versed in how a "penalty" becomes a sought out title/status - Dread Lord's, etc.

Sun 15 Jul 2018 12:42 AM by relvinian

No need for any penalty.

Corp por kal vas flam.

OooooOOOooooo

Sun 15 Jul 2018 1:29 AM by bamf

relvinian wrote: ↑
Sun 15 Jul 2018 12:42 AM
No need for any penalty.

Corp por kal vas flam.

OooooOOOooooo

Pft, no true red pvper used FS! Come on Relv!!

Sun 15 Jul 2018 8:49 AM by relvinian

Yeah It was more like para then stand around mocking for a bit then two timed explosion ebolts with a poison thrown in.

I remember being killed solo by 4-5 reds

Sun 15 Jul 2018 9:47 AM by Vkejai

Give xp for grey mobs too then

Sun 15 Jul 2018 12:35 PM by Ganaka

Vkejai wrote: ↑
Sun 15 Jul 2018 9:47 AM
Give xp for grey mobs too then

This sounds silly, but it's a great point!

Sun 15 Jul 2018 12:43 PM by Numatic

The frontier zones are PvP enabled. They are not safe. You need to expect them to be camped outside the gates. That's what realm mates are for. That's why the frontier xp is higher. Risk vs reward. Even a group of lvl 30s can go out and kill a lvl 50 that's ganking. There are plenty of excellent leveling spots in the safe area. If this was detrimental to leveling I would understand but it's not. As much as I don't agree with grey ganking, it's a daoc past time and one of those things that comes with the territory.

I do agree a grey should not warrant any reward UNLESS the lvl 50 is attacked first or the greys are in a group.

Sun 15 Jul 2018 3:57 PM by Exploder

Leveling in the frontier zone has always been high risk/high reward. While grays probably shouldn't be worth RPs or title progression, it should stop there. Once the server is live and there are alliances and larger guilds, you can just use that. I'm sure solo's will be more than happy to check it out since it will be an almost guaranteed fight.

Sun 15 Jul 2018 4:01 PM by Quik

Numatic wrote: ↑
Sun 15 Jul 2018 12:43 PM
I do agree a grey should not warrant any reward UNLESS the lvl 50 is attacked first or the greys are in a group.

Why should it matter if they are in a group?

Either they are grey or they aren't.

Sun 15 Jul 2018 4:28 PM by Numatic

Quik wrote: ↑
Sun 15 Jul 2018 4:01 PM
Numatic wrote: ↑
Sun 15 Jul 2018 12:43 PM
I do agree a grey should not warrant any reward UNLESS the lvl 50 is attacked first or the greys are in a group.

Why should it matter if they are in a group?

Either they are grey or they aren't.

Because of risk. A solo grey is no threat to a 50. But a group of greys can take out a solo 50. If the risk is there, there should be a reward.

Sun 15 Jul 2018 4:37 PM by Quik

Numatic wrote: ↑
Sun 15 Jul 2018 4:28 PM
Quik wrote: ↑
Sun 15 Jul 2018 4:01 PM
Numatic wrote: ↑
Sun 15 Jul 2018 12:43 PM
I do agree a grey should not warrant any reward UNLESS the lvl 50 is attacked first or the greys are in a group.

Why should it matter if they are in a group?

Either they are grey or they aren't.

Because of risk. A solo grey is no threat to a 50. But a group of greys can take out a solo 50. If the risk is there, there should be a reward.

Nah, sorry but if a 50 attacks a group of grey's and gets killed he deserves to have his toon deleted and the grey's deserve a special title of "Whoop Ass" or something as well as getting all of the 50's stuff.

A grey should be zero rp's and title at a minimum.

Sun 15 Jul 2018 5:07 PM by Ganaka

Quik wrote: ↑
Sun 15 Jul 2018 4:37 PM
Numatic wrote: ↑
Sun 15 Jul 2018 4:28 PM
Quik wrote: ↑
Sun 15 Jul 2018 4:01 PM
Why should it matter if they are in a group?

Either they are grey or they aren't.

Because of risk. A solo grey is no threat to a 50. But a group of greys can take out a solo 50. If the risk is there, there should be a reward.

Nah, sorry but if a 50 attacks a group of grey's and gets killed he deserves to have his toon deleted and the grey's deserve a special title of "Whoop Ass" or something as well as getting all of the 50's stuff.

A grey should be zero rp's and title at a minimum.

I agree!

Sun 15 Jul 2018 6:11 PM by Moric

As has been stated already by previous posters... Grays should not be worth rps or title progression and that should be the end of it. High risk/High reward leveling adds a fun dynamic to PvE in DAOC and should remain that way.

Mon 16 Jul 2018 3:30 AM by Fugax

Red is Dead imo

Mon 16 Jul 2018 9:43 PM by Tobias

Frontier/DF exp bonus is self evident on why it exists. It isn't there to apologize for the landscape, it is there because at any moment a man could show up behind you and have his way with you

Thu 19 Jul 2018 12:22 PM by Chaskha

- Killing greys shouldn't increase death counters (based on the fact that it is a sure win)
- Killing greys should give RPs (based on the fact that a grey is an ennemy and we are at war)
- Harass a grey, let's say kill the same defenseless dude 3+ times within 20 minutes should be discouraged (because you are just being an asshole human to another fellow player, this becomes a nasty behaviour, not just a good old red is dead). That is the difference between killing a grey and chaining a grey.
=> Bullies are part of life, no need to get rid of it but when one is defeated there should be some celebration (I think some kind of bonus for removing an harasser is a great idea)

Thu 19 Jul 2018 1:35 PM by sebbo

Quik wrote: ↑
Sun 15 Jul 2018 4:01 PM
Numatic wrote: ↑
Sun 15 Jul 2018 12:43 PM
I do agree a grey should not warrant any reward UNLESS the lvl 50 is attacked first or the greys are in a group.

Why should it matter if they are in a group?

Either they are grey or they aren't.

Becaue a group of greys can kill the lvl 50, since you don´t even resist a single cast of grey players.

Thu 19 Jul 2018 2:04 PM by Horus

I don't know if I was a "notorious" grey ganker or not but i used to patrol Snowdonia and kill everything I found, grey or not. Why? Because I got at least a few RPs and kills toward the "Lone Enforcer" or "Master Soldier" titles...

I am usually the 1st one to defend grey killing as part of the integral risk vs reward formula of DaoC.

However Quik and Relv make good points. I would rather have a healthy population and sacrifice a bit of play style for easy RPs and titles...

Chalk me up for greys killable=yes, RPs or title progress for them = No...it does not prevent grey ganking but it would prevent those like me doing it as there would be no reward.

One other aspect this might help...just because someone is grey to 50 does not mean they are grey to 40. I know I plan on hunting in enemy frontiers well before 50. This might actually encourage that since at 40 there may be more viable enemy targets if the 50's don't come and grey gank them clear as much...

Thu 19 Jul 2018 2:31 PM by heardstheword

Eh, killing any enemies is fine in my book.

I draw the line at farming greys. You know they'll likely come back to the same spot so kill them once and move on. Don't sit there and wait to do it again.

Thu 19 Jul 2018 5:33 PM by Tydowen

I get rolled by a mid group while soloing x4 or x5 yesterday. I felt like fly following my shit whenever I go. Plus they let me die by mobs after pull, in order to I lost exp etc... really honorable guys.
I know this is part of the game but I need to say that this behaviour made me log off. I thought these guys would have pity after a certain time but their behaviour became even more toxic.
My suggestion is to not give any rewards to greykilling, no rp, no kill count, nothing. Not even 1rp.
Anything which could encourage greykillings has no sense to me.

I don't expect that people stop greykilling if you don't give reward but at least some people may not. If you want to act badly then face it.

Also, it's gonna be even more hard for casual players at launch if you reward greykilling. They gonna have hard time to exp in frontier or DF.

Think long term, let people exp quick, like this they go quick to rvr, then do your RPS.

Some might remember this toxic Mcnasty on a certain server, We don't need bunch of them, thanks.

Thu 19 Jul 2018 5:42 PM by Quik

IMHO greys should not be worth any RP's or titles period.

On top of that grey camping should be discouraged somehow. What I mean is having a player like Ninjasniper in DF who basically just sits at the entrance to Mid and waits for greys to come down and he just kills them. He's been doing it for days. He stays away from high lvls.

Killing greys as you go through is one thing, camping for greys is another.

Camping 1 place for days for greys only? That has dropped to a pathetic point and the dev's need to look at something like that. It has gone beyond the argument of frontiers being a danger zone to simply griefing.

I go there and kill some mobs until I see death spam from him and I log to another toon, but damn, please don't tell me this is what the server is going to be about?

Thu 19 Jul 2018 6:05 PM by relvinian

I don't want to be thought police or to discourage behavior.

I just don't want the server paradigm to ENCOURAGE behavior.

If you give rps for greys and titles for greys then you are supporting and encouraging the behavior.

If someone wants to kill greys all day long, good on them. The players can respond by hunting them down.

But they should not get rps or titles for it.

IMO

Thu 19 Jul 2018 6:46 PM by Tobias

All this whining makes me want to kill greys when before I didn't, so I'll dedicate the next few to this thread. PvP is gonna happen in pvp zones, ya'll! More shocking news at 11!

Thu 19 Jul 2018 6:48 PM by heardstheword

Tobias wrote: ↑
Thu 19 Jul 2018 6:46 PM
All this whining makes me want to kill greys when before I didn't, so I'll dedicate the next few to this thread. PvP is gonna happen in pvp zones, ya'll! More shocking news at 11!

So edgy.

Thu 19 Jul 2018 7:01 PM by Tobias

heardstheword wrote: ↑
Thu 19 Jul 2018 6:48 PM
Tobias wrote: ↑
Thu 19 Jul 2018 6:46 PM
All this whining makes me want to kill greys when before I didn't, so I'll dedicate the next few to this thread. PvP is gonna happen in pvp zones, ya'll! More shocking news at 11!

So edgy.

Not really, I was trying to keep it simple but I'll make a few points then. People have a 1 dimensional view about this issue which is that they aren't worth any RPs so it "shouldn't" happen. They disregard all the times the greys join in on fights when you 1v1 nearby them, they disregard them calling your location in on /lfg , and they disregard the fact that people that die as greys will call for help which gets you better fights which otherwise you wouldn't have had, and it delays the enemy's progress (I think they are at war maybe) or maybe they'll switch to their higher level to fight you.

There's plenty of reasons to kill greys, even if you're some RP'er who really hates Furbolgs and will kill them selectively because in your story they killed your family.

None of these are addressed by anyone here, they're just pointing out how harmless greys are when they aren't at all.

Thu 19 Jul 2018 8:27 PM by heardstheword

Tobias wrote: ↑
Thu 19 Jul 2018 7:01 PM
None of these are addressed by anyone here, they're just pointing out how harmless greys are when they aren't at all.

A group of greys can definitely kill a lvl 50. I even said on this same page that I'm on the team of "kill any and all enemies"

But if you farm some greys, then you're an asshole.

Thu 19 Jul 2018 8:30 PM by Tobias

heardstheword wrote: ↑
Thu 19 Jul 2018 8:27 PM
Tobias wrote: ↑
Thu 19 Jul 2018 7:01 PM
None of these are addressed by anyone here, they're just pointing out how harmless greys are when they aren't at all.

A group of greys can definitely kill a lvl 50. I even said on this same page that I'm on the team of "kill any and all enemies"

But if you farm some greys, then you're an asshole. Make your kill and move on.

You added to the list but did not address anything else, just went with shaming language and ignored my points about the threats grays pose. My point still stands, there are plenty of reasons to kill grays, least of all that they are your enemy. You can call names if you want but that player that just killed a gray has plenty of reasons to do so and none not to, aside from being called names on the forums or enemy lfg channel, which isn't going to impress him enough to not do it.

Even if all incentives were removed it would still happen because killspam/epeens , so unless you can address that you're always going to have this same problem to the same degree, removing the 1rp you get for kiling a gray clearly isn't going to make someone not do it anymore, there's too many other factors at work to why someone goes out and kills grays.

Thu 19 Jul 2018 8:30 PM by relvinian

Dead horse.

Devs spoke. There will be no reward of any kind for killing greys. There will be full rps while dead,.

If the devs will all line up in an orderly fashion I will service them.

Thu 19 Jul 2018 8:40 PM by Quik

Yeah I read that and it is awesome =)

Thu 19 Jul 2018 8:55 PM by heardstheword

I wasn't calling you any names. It was a vague use of "you".

Anyone can come up with a reason to kill some grey con people.

"I had a bad day and I need to take it out on someone."
"I'm bad at the game and this is all I can kill successfully"
"I'm getting revenge for this group killing my friend earlier"
"I want to remove any chance that they'll scout the larger group that is coming soon"

I don't understand what you're getting at that I didn't address every single reason that someone can kill a grey. I already stated if you want to do it, go for it. I couldn't care less.

People can justify killing an enemy player however they want, but it doesn't make them a better person because of it.

Thu 19 Jul 2018 11:13 PM by Tobias

heardstheword wrote: ↑
Thu 19 Jul 2018 8:55 PM
I wasn't calling you any names. It was a vague use of "you".

Anyone can come up with a reason to kill some grey con people.

"I had a bad day and I need to take it out on someone."
"I'm bad at the game and this is all I can kill successfully"
"I'm getting revenge for this group killing my friend earlier"
"I want to remove any chance that they'll scout the larger group that is coming soon"

I don't understand what you're getting at that I didn't address every single reason that someone can kill a grey. I already stated if you want to do it, go for it. I couldn't care less.

People can justify killing an enemy player however they want, but it doesn't make them a better person because of it.

"I wasn't calling you any names" - I didn't say you were calling me anything, my words of choice have always been "if someone wants to kill a gray" -esque....weird point here

Nice straw man and moving the goal posts. I didn't point out that you didn't address "every single reason" I said that none of mine were addressed. Quite a difference there don't you think, try being intellectually honest or take a reading comprehension class if you just didn't get it, its that you are smart and you knew this and you're being dishonest, or you maybe don't speak english as a first language I guess, but either way its off the mark.

Your list above for reasons are all just shaming the grey killer aside from the tactical one at the end, which gives away your hand here on why you didn't address my earlier points and just double down on "oh he didn't kill them for any strategy or he doesn't want them adding when he gets popped by another assassin, he's just a loser IRL and a tryhard"

Again, there are plenty of good reasons to kill greys, even multiple times over and over, and few or none to leave them alive. 2rps for a kill and the title rewards being in or out will not change the fact tons of grays will die from each faction for the same reasons I listed. None, however, are from something like your suggesting "I'm bad at the game" , please.

Thu 19 Jul 2018 11:45 PM by Ganaka

I love how these topics bring out the internet tough guys!

Thu 19 Jul 2018 11:59 PM by Bethoc

Feel free to grey gank, but also expect to be called out as a coward and receive zero respect when you're only seen picking fights heavily skewed in your favor. There are some defenders of the practice here who've consistently stayed in the shadows unless it's abundantly clear that no one nearby is strong enough to successfully fight back.

Fri 20 Jul 2018 12:11 AM by Quik

There is a difference between killing greys you find on your travels...and CAMPING them in the same spot for days and only attacking them. That is a person who JUST wants to ruin the game for others and nothing else.

Fri 20 Jul 2018 1:06 AM by heardstheword

Quik wrote: ↑
Fri 20 Jul 2018 12:11 AM
There is a difference between killing greys you find on your travels...and CAMPING them in the same spot for days and only attacking them. That is a person who JUST wants to ruin the game for others and nothing else.

For sure. Killing someone that you run across, I feel is just fine.

Waiting for them to come back is just unnecessary.

I never killed greys, unprovoked, on Mordred. I doubt I'll do it here.

Fri 20 Jul 2018 1:41 AM by Tobias

Quik wrote: ↑
Fri 20 Jul 2018 12:11 AM
There is a difference between killing greys you find on your travels...and CAMPING them in the same spot for days and only attacking them. That is a person who JUST wants to ruin the game for others and nothing else.

I don't believe this gray ganker exists. Camping someone for days that isn't worth any real RPs and only attacking this small group or single gray. That's pretty extreme but if you need to exaggerate it that much okay, but nobody here can name an example of a person like you describe.

Fri 20 Jul 2018 1:46 AM by Quik

LOL

Try Ninjasniper in DF. A Ranger that literally has been at mid entrance for the last 3-4 days just picking off greys and a few higher levels here and there.

Fri 20 Jul 2018 1:59 AM by Snoogy

XP. Somewhere. Else.

or don't cry.

It's been part of the game since 2003.

Fri 20 Jul 2018 2:47 AM by Quik

Snoogy wrote: ↑
Fri 20 Jul 2018 1:59 AM
XP. Somewhere. Else.

or don't cry.

It's been part of the game since 2003.

I'm not crying...I try a few times then move to another area.

I am talking general grey camping.

No one has EVER heard me get mad for being killed while XPing in RvR areas.

Fri 20 Jul 2018 4:47 AM by Tobias

Quik wrote: ↑
Fri 20 Jul 2018 1:46 AM
LOL

Try Ninjasniper in DF. A Ranger that literally has been at mid entrance for the last 3-4 days just picking off greys and a few higher levels here and there.

DF entrance chokepoint isn't "camping the same grays for days" but whatever I'm done with these stupid "examples" that don't hold up to the lightest scrutiny

Fri 20 Jul 2018 12:17 PM by heardstheword

You come across like you think you're some superior intelligence to us all.

This is such a roundabout argument that is getting no where. The devs solved the problem. No RPs for grey killing. Done.

Fri 20 Jul 2018 9:27 PM by Ganaka

Why is this thread still alive?