Can we talk about Hib Amnesia?

Something needs to be done, OF is full of choke points, amnesia = easy kill for any Hib group.

You simply cannot outrun full groups of Hibs if you're in a small man, they will almost always catch you.

I know there was discussion over removing the amnesia speed break but it seems it didn't happen.

As it stands, this completely puts me off playing my visible character, I doubt this server needs more stealthers but that's what is going to happen once people get sick of this amnesia speed breaking BS.

Sun 10 Feb 2019 2:26 PM by phixion

Amnesia is op here, too many choke points.

Either remove the insta ability or add a cast time.

It's completely unfair that a group of hibs can chase down small man so easily.

Sun 10 Feb 2019 5:20 PM by Druth

Yes it's very OP.
But you can't just adjust/remove such an ability without compensating with something else.
Hibs are not dominating, so such a change would not be to create some sort of RvR balance.

Any suggestions of what to give instead?

Sun 10 Feb 2019 5:39 PM by VandenPlause

I haven’t had a chance to RvR on this server yet, haven’t played in weeks actually. On the wiki it says

– All offensive actions, with exception of Amnesia, instantly drop speed.

Is amnesia dropping speed? Is the wiki wrong and needs to be updated? Or maybe I’m just not understanding it correctly?

It’s under Abilities at http://playphoenix.wiki/miscellaneous-changes/

Sun 10 Feb 2019 5:45 PM by Afuldan

VandenPlause wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Feb 2019 5:39 PM
I haven’t had a chance to RvR on this server yet, haven’t played in weeks actually. On the wiki it says

– All offensive actions, with exception of Amnesia, instantly drop speed.

Is amnesia dropping speed? Is the wiki wrong and needs to be updated? Or maybe I’m just not understanding it correctly?

It’s under Abilities at http://playphoenix.wiki/miscellaneous-changes/

The Amnesia cast isn’t breaking speed for caster, but the resist/amnesia landing is breaking speed on targets, I think.

Sun 10 Feb 2019 8:07 PM by faliv

Can i have a list of all these choke points?

Tue 12 Feb 2019 4:43 AM by Kaozium

VandenPlause wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Feb 2019 5:39 PM
I haven’t had a chance to RvR on this server yet, haven’t played in weeks actually. On the wiki it says

– All offensive actions, with exception of Amnesia, instantly drop speed.

Is amnesia dropping speed? Is the wiki wrong and needs to be updated? Or maybe I’m just not understanding it correctly?

It’s under Abilities at http://playphoenix.wiki/miscellaneous-changes/

You're not understanding it correcly.

The keyword is "instantly"

Amnesia does not instantly break speed. It breaks speed after a delay, so the line you're quoting remains true.

Tue 12 Feb 2019 9:55 AM by Frigzy

I solo on a visible tall Elf without speed.

I manage.

If you have speed 6 and still think you shouldn't get caught that's got less to do with Hib amnesia than with you not respecting RvR action.

Tue 12 Feb 2019 10:13 AM by dudis

Amnesia makes you "forget" what you were doing. If you are casting a spell, you are not actually interrupted, but rather you finish the animation but dont actually cast the spell. You can immediately start casting again.

It drops speed because you "forget" the NEXT tick of the chant/song. Thats why you get the delay before it breaks. Im not sure if you can just cancel and then play speed again to get the next tick anyways.

Let me know if I'm just remembering amnesias interraction with pusling spells incorrectly.

Tue 12 Feb 2019 11:09 AM by Sepplord

dudis wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Feb 2019 10:13 AM
Amnesia makes you "forget" what you were doing. If you are casting a spell, you are not actually interrupted, but rather you finish the animation but dont actually cast the spell. You can immediately start casting again.

It drops speed because you "forget" the NEXT tick of the chant/song. Thats why you get the delay before it breaks. Im not sure if you can just cancel and then play speed again to get the next tick anyways.

Let me know if I'm just remembering amnesias interraction with pusling spells incorrectly.

afaik you are correct about the "forgetting" thing, and it is true that it does not ruppt, since you can immediatly restartcasting (that's also why it works against quickcasts / MOC). It also aborts spells that are almost done casting, while a normal ruppt would still let a cast go through if the ruppt hits after XX% of the casttime (not sure about the % definitely more than 50%)

Imo casting amnesia should instantly break spead on the bard/healer/sorc as it is an offensie action against an enemy target. Imo it is a tool to win CC-fights during engagement (therefor bards also need it to stay instant, although i believe the timer might also be a little increased), not as a speedbreak tool to catch fleeing enemies.

Tue 12 Feb 2019 9:59 PM by razzim

since it breaks speed on the target, amnesia has to break speed on the person using it as well. it makes no sense otherwise and is overpowered.

Tue 12 Feb 2019 10:57 PM by Tavi

razzim wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Feb 2019 9:59 PM
since it breaks speed on the target, amnesia has to break speed on the person using it as well. it makes no sense otherwise and is overpowered.

I think that is already the case. But only the bard looses speed, the rest of the group will catch you.

Tue 12 Feb 2019 11:28 PM by phixion

Frigzy wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Feb 2019 9:55 AM
I solo on a visible tall Elf without speed.

I manage.

If you have speed 6 and still think you shouldn't get caught that's got less to do with Hib amnesia than with you not respecting RvR action.

You can outrun an Alb group yet can never outrun a Hib group thanks to that OP bolt range insta that removes your speed and not theirs...

It doesn't seem right to me that a small man can simply not exist thanks to 1 insta. What incentive do we have to run out with that? I can tell you, if it comes down to a choice of running out in a small man, or following a zerg or playing stealthers - the latter 2 win.

Please, I know everyone is enjoying this zerging task system we have, but lets not put off those of us who enjoy small man action too.

Tue 12 Feb 2019 11:32 PM by defiasbandit

Bard amnesia is broke more at 11.

Wed 13 Feb 2019 11:34 AM by hellvalor

I agree that amnesia needs to be looked at!
It kills smallman action and that is why a lot of players are here...

Wed 13 Feb 2019 11:38 AM by Frigzy

phixion wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Feb 2019 11:28 PM
It doesn't seem right to me that a small man can simply not exist thanks to 1 insta.

I believe this is where we're going to have to agree to disagree.

By your reasoning ANY visible solo or smallman without speed 6 can simply not exist. After all, they will never be able to outrun or escape a speed 6 full group.

This doesn't make any sense to me.

Yes, you're going to stand no chance against those groups. You know that before you're even running out. It's a choice you're making at that moment. Instead of adjusting accordingly you're asking the environment to change based on your own choices.

I get the frustration of getting ganked by larger groups, but still, that's just not a mindset I can agree to.

Wed 13 Feb 2019 1:10 PM by faz

hi!

Wed 13 Feb 2019 1:20 PM by moe_Jiller

Frigzy wrote: ↑
Wed 13 Feb 2019 11:38 AM
phixion wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Feb 2019 11:28 PM
It doesn't seem right to me that a small man can simply not exist thanks to 1 insta.
I believe this is where we're going to have to agree to disagree.

By your reasoning ANY visible solo or smallman without speed 6 can simply not exist. After all, they will never be able to outrun or escape a speed 6 full group.

This doesn't make any sense to me.

Yes, you're going to stand no chance against those groups. You know that before you're even running out. It's a choice you're making at that moment. Instead of adjusting accordingly you're asking the environment to change based on your own choices.

I get the frustration of getting ganked by larger groups, but still, that's just not a mindset I can agree to.

Well put.

Edit for the sake of discussion: bards ofc also lose Speed when they use amnesia. So when they use it, they gotta hope their grp protects them afterwards.

Wed 13 Feb 2019 1:52 PM by dansari

moe_Jiller wrote: ↑
Wed 13 Feb 2019 1:20 PM
Edit for the sake of discussion: bards ofc also lose Speed when they use amnesia. So when they use it, they gotta hope their grp protects them afterwards.

Hope their group protects them? If you insta amnesia you are starting the fight off with a gigantic advantage. Your group doesn't need to protect you. Without speed, the group you're facing cannot reasonably re-position. It's not a very hard concept: movement is king. The solutions are to drop its range to 1500 or give it a cast time.

Wed 13 Feb 2019 2:06 PM by Tritri

I mean... what the hell is going on...

What are you guys even talking about........ It's giving me a headache

First of all try to understand how the ability works before saying it's broken. So has some other have stated :

Amnesia doesn't break speed instantly, it blocks the next speed "tick"
The effect is exactly the same on the caster, he loses the next speed "tick"

Now, this has been the case for as long as I can remember on DAoC.
The Bard is a class that doesn't give much to its group but the key features : aoe mezz, speed and end (and some base buff).
They get instant amnesia so they have their specialty, they are the only class to have an instant amnesia. Sorcerer got range (and cast speed), Healer got instant Stun / Mezz, Bard got instant amnesia

I suggest you learn to play against it, because having instant amnesia is a double edged sword.

Instant amnesia is the reason why Bards can't win mezz against Healers for example
Instant amnesia is the reason Hibernia can't counter MoC well

Not saying it's a bad tool. And yeah you can't run from an hibernian group, which can sux.

dansari wrote: ↑
Wed 13 Feb 2019 1:52 PM
Hope their group protects them? If you insta amnesia you are starting the fight off with a gigantic advantage. Your group doesn't need to protect you. Without speed, the group you're facing cannot reasonably re-position. It's not a very hard concept: movement is king. The solutions are to drop its range to 1500 or give it a cast time.

If your whole group get hit by the instant amnesia I have some bad news for you

Wed 13 Feb 2019 3:48 PM by Horus

Do other insta cast spells drop the casting group out of speed when used, debuffs, mez, stun, dmg, etc?

Wed 13 Feb 2019 6:40 PM by phixion

Frigzy wrote: ↑
Wed 13 Feb 2019 11:38 AM
phixion wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Feb 2019 11:28 PM
It doesn't seem right to me that a small man can simply not exist thanks to 1 insta.
I believe this is where we're going to have to agree to disagree.

By your reasoning ANY visible solo or smallman without speed 6 can simply not exist. After all, they will never be able to outrun or escape a speed 6 full group.

This doesn't make any sense to me.

Yes, you're going to stand no chance against those groups. You know that before you're even running out. It's a choice you're making at that moment. Instead of adjusting accordingly you're asking the environment to change based on your own choices.

I get the frustration of getting ganked by larger groups, but still, that's just not a mindset I can agree to.

Yes, I am absolutely saying that a group without speed 6 cannot survive in RvR. Whether they choose to run out over and over again in to certain death is their choice.

There is no playing around amnesia, as a small man you get amnesia'd and then you're as good as dead. There is no outrunning it, there is no playing around it.

Why can't amnesia just interrupt? Why does it have to also break speed? I don't mind you having your insta interrupt, but insta speed break and that range is over the top and always has been.

If you ain't already noticed, this server has made a few custom changes to how things work, why do you think it's out of the realms of possibility to change this?

If this remains, all you get is people getting bored of going out in small man as they cannot compete with the zerg and cannot escape full groups. So that results in people either joining the zerg, playing stealthers, or quitting all together.

Thu 14 Feb 2019 4:06 AM by dansari

Tritri wrote: ↑
Wed 13 Feb 2019 2:06 PM
dansari wrote: ↑
Wed 13 Feb 2019 1:52 PM
Hope their group protects them? If you insta amnesia you are starting the fight off with a gigantic advantage. Your group doesn't need to protect you. Without speed, the group you're facing cannot reasonably re-position. It's not a very hard concept: movement is king. The solutions are to drop its range to 1500 or give it a cast time.

If your whole group get hit by the instant amnesia I have some bad news for you

The whole group doesn't need to be hit by insta amnesia for it to wipe you. That's a strawman argument.

Thu 14 Feb 2019 4:40 PM by razzim

hib amnesia needs to get a cast time, make it like alb and mid: 2 sec. problem solved.
the current state of it is stupid; being able to instantly drop entire groups out of speed at 2300 range, jeh, sounds balanced. even if it is only 1 tick of speed.
and yes, it affects a full group. even if only one person is hit, you have to react...arguing the radius is moot.
consider giving it a cast time.

Thu 14 Feb 2019 4:52 PM by Tavi

Amnesia is fine as it is, just remove the speed break.

Thu 14 Feb 2019 5:09 PM by Drominchen

Amnesia is fine as it is. If your enemy bard wastes it on breaking speed just punish him for it (hint he won't hit first mezz after wasting it if your sorc / healer is at least decent).

Thu 14 Feb 2019 5:22 PM by Patron

Serious folks, you play the game how long?
And now u notice, hey bards amnesia is instant and long range and rupt...
Its ever was this way and every realm have things which other realms dont have.
Deal with it

/close this

Thu 14 Feb 2019 8:37 PM by Eodis

No reason to change Hib Amnesia.

The problem is somewhere else and the OP even mentionned it : It's Old Frontier. The map is terrible on so many levels, it's not the Bard class who needs an adjustment. People are in nostalgia denial with this map. Just give us NF so we have real keep sieges and better fights in lands, less zerg but still a possibility to do it, more strategy and realm coordination.

OF maps are too small and they favor only zerg even more with tasks, keeps/relics are useless and it's not enjoyable to play for it. No idea why this topic is not at the center of every debate right now.

Thu 14 Feb 2019 10:27 PM by dansari

"Amnesia is fine as is"

>Hib classes in sig

Would prefer to drop the range to 1500 so Bard keeps its "uniqueness," with insta. Hell drop it to 1875 and reassess after a few weeks

Fri 15 Feb 2019 2:16 PM by Tritri

I really don't get where does this whine over instant amnesia comes from...

phixion wrote: ↑
Wed 13 Feb 2019 6:40 PM
Yes, I am absolutely saying that a group without speed 6 cannot survive in RvR. Whether they choose to run out over and over again in to certain death is their choice.

There is no playing around amnesia, as a small man you get amnesia'd and then you're as good as dead. There is no outrunning it, there is no playing around it.

Why can't amnesia just interrupt? Why does it have to also break speed? I don't mind you having your insta interrupt, but insta speed break and that range is over the top and always has been.

If you ain't already noticed, this server has made a few custom changes to how things work, why do you think it's out of the realms of possibility to change this?

If this remains, all you get is people getting bored of going out in small man as they cannot compete with the zerg and cannot escape full groups. So that results in people either joining the zerg, playing stealthers, or quitting all together.

You realize that nerfing instant amnesia isn't going to allow non speed 6 group to die less, right ? Especially smallmans. I don't see your point.

And Dansari, if it's not your whole group that got hit by amnesia, then you should be fine. There shouldn't be more than 3 players hit by this in a 8man.
Now it's true that you can't all run away from an hib group, even if you have speed 6. But if your speedster isn't caught, you can come back for the rez easily (like, if it was a fight that you couldn't win)
In a 8v8 situation, being able to cut speed from this range is nice, but it's not game breaker in anyway, there are solution

I feel like you only see the plus side of this spell without even trying to understand what are the weaknesses and how to exploit them.

People have figured out how to manage this for more than 15 years, I'm sure you can do it too
Change your mindset and figure out solutions instead of asking for balance changes.

And don't give me the "heh, you play hib, your argument is invalid" (and criticizing the argument before calling it a strawman argument lol), I have mostly played mid

Sat 16 Feb 2019 8:53 AM by Ninefingers

The problem is the range. It takes any skill in avoiding a hib group out of the equation. Even if you are panning, and turn as soon as you see a hib group and are running at speed 6 you will get hit with amnesia. THIS is the problem , especially for smallmans and solo's, it completely takes choice of engagement out of the equation. People say things have always been like this, but i cannot remember this situation on live or on any other freeshard. If you are doing your job right, panning and see the enemy at clip at speed 6 you should be able to get away and that is simply not the case here.

Reduce range on amnesia to 1500, or at worst 2000 but NOT 2300. They still have their 'speciality' which is the instant cast speed breaking ability but now solo's and smallman have some choice about engagement if they are doing it right and panning.

Sat 16 Feb 2019 10:18 AM by Ceen

Don't run the main road and amnesia won't hit you since there is always a better target on the main road than you are

Sat 16 Feb 2019 12:08 PM by necrolove1

2000 range insta aoe speed break is silly, really just say it out loud. Amnesia has its use in RvR, to get pets off a target.. that should be it

Sat 16 Feb 2019 2:05 PM by Tritri

necrolove1 wrote: ↑
Sat 16 Feb 2019 12:08 PM
... to get pets off a target.. that should be it

My god... x)

So yeah, no, amnesia has no effects on pet whatsoever, saying this really shows how much understanding of the game you have :/

Please do not balance around people that don't even know how spells works, let alone understands meta :/

Sat 16 Feb 2019 9:34 PM by phixion

I have view distance at max and it still sucks, as soon as you see Hibs you're amnesia'd and as good as dead.

You cannot say that Amnesia is not OP, but then protest against it removing speed. Why not have it interrupt as it should but not force a speed drop? Why would you object so much if it isn't a big deal?

Obviously, Hibs like getting easy RPs with it. Of course you want to keep it. Anyone with less than 8 man is ez pickings.

Sat 16 Feb 2019 10:06 PM by keen

Clipping distance is for sure a problem on Phoenix. I guess they lowered it to take pressure from the server. Not sure if it can be made live like with the current player numbers.

Sat 16 Feb 2019 10:23 PM by Luluko

necrolove1 wrote: ↑
Sat 16 Feb 2019 12:08 PM
2000 range insta aoe speed break is silly, really just say it out loud. Amnesia has its use in RvR, to get pets off a target.. that should be it

thats confusion not amnesia, amnesia cancels the active cast of your target especially great vs qc mezz

@topic yes reduce the range to 1900-2000, 2300 is too much

Sat 16 Feb 2019 10:46 PM by keen

On live it has bolt range 1875 afaik. I'd say that is better.

Sun 17 Feb 2019 8:21 AM by dansari

After fighting against a really good 2 bard group tonight I don't understand how you counter insta amnesia even during fights. The insta lvl 2 amnesia is perfect for rupting seers and it's on a 5s cooldown. Five seconds, and you can pop it while running. I have changed my original opinion and think it needs to match all other amnesia and be on a cast time.

Died about 3-4 times tonight simply because of insta amnesia. It's not fun, or fair. My 2c, and anyone comparing aoe stun or bolt mez to insta amnesia is honestly being a bit disingenuous.

Sun 17 Feb 2019 8:30 AM by Drominchen

dansari wrote: ↑
Sun 17 Feb 2019 8:21 AM
After fighting against a really good 2 bard group tonight I don't understand how you counter insta amnesia even during fights. The insta lvl 2 amnesia is perfect for rupting seers and it's on a 5s cooldown. Five seconds, and you can pop it while running. I have changed my original opinion and think it needs to match all other amnesia and be on a cast time.

Yes it is on 5s cooldown and it only rupts when it gets resisted. After fighting a mid group I don't understand how you counter a bonedancer with instant lifetap on 4s cooldown and instant body debuff on 5s. Both spells are perfect for rupting the whole support line. Four and five seconds spells that always rupt and you can pop them while running and you also get 3-4 pets that can rupt different targets!

You should always try to see the whole image. Because of instant amnesia Hib cannot counter any MoC for example.

Sun 17 Feb 2019 8:47 AM by dansari

Drominchen wrote: ↑
Sun 17 Feb 2019 8:30 AM
You should always try to see the whole image. Because of instant amnesia Hib cannot counter any MoC for example.

I can certainly see the whole picture, and undoubtedly BD is strong in groups, though a bit less frequent than one or two Bards per group, every group; plus arguably a bit harder to play by managing a pet class. Your MoC example is hilarious though. So you're saying insta amnesia at 2300 range which exists in every hib group needs to stay because what if a Healer has to stand still and interrupt me after popping MoC every 10mins? Ben Shapiro would be proud of that strawman.

Sun 17 Feb 2019 9:08 AM by Drominchen

dansari wrote: ↑
Sun 17 Feb 2019 8:47 AM
Drominchen wrote: ↑
Sun 17 Feb 2019 8:30 AM
You should always try to see the whole image. Because of instant amnesia Hib cannot counter any MoC for example.

I can certainly see the whole picture, and undoubtedly BD is strong in groups, though a bit less frequent than one or two Bards per group, every group; plus arguably a bit harder to play by managing a pet class. Your MoC example is hilarious though. So you're saying insta amnesia at 2300 range which exists in every hib group needs to stay because what if a Healer has to stand still and interrupt me after popping MoC every 10mins? Ben Shapiro would be proud of that strawman.

I say casted amnesia (and red charmed pets -> minstrel) are the only real counter without zephyr vs moc. I longed for a casted amnesia for years on bard! Ever tried to "interrupt" a mocing theurg or healer that have cc immunities?

Instant amnesia is no reliable rupt and no reliable counter vs anything but it is the only thing that makes it possible to get your mezz cast through on a race without dex bonus

Sun 17 Feb 2019 9:16 AM by dansari

Drominchen wrote: ↑
Sun 17 Feb 2019 9:08 AM
I say casted amnesia (and red charmed pets -> minstrel) are the only real counter without zephyr vs moc. I longed for a casted amnesia for years on bard! Ever tried to "interrupt" a mocing theurg or healer that have cc immunities?

Instant amnesia is no reliable rupt and no reliable counter vs anything but it is the only thing that makes it possible to get your mezz cast through on a race without dex bonus

The point is that the counters are nonexistent or out of whack.

How do you counter insta amnesia before a fight starts? SoS..

How do you counter insta amnesia vs 2 bard groups as a seer? MoC..

Regardless, the primary issue is that it drops speed. Plenty of solutions have been provided to make this more fair:

1. Change it so it doesn't drop speed.
2. Make it like every other amnesia and on a cast time (you'd enjoy that right?)
3. Drop its range to 1850 or 1500.

I don't see any logical arguments outside of "muhh hib signature" to suggest that this isn't a popular proposal.

Sun 17 Feb 2019 9:26 AM by Wokrid

while we're at it can we change Sorc mezz to 1500 range, too?

thanks

oh and can we change Healer AoE stun to be single target only?

thanks again

:-)

Sun 17 Feb 2019 9:41 AM by dansari

Wokrid wrote: ↑
Sun 17 Feb 2019 9:26 AM
while we're at it can we change Sorc mezz to 1500 range, too?

thanks

oh and can we change Healer AoE stun to be single target only?

thanks again

:-)

Ugh yeah the casted sorc bolt mez is so good at dropping groups out of speed at 2300 range. Please stop bringing up irrelevant distractions.

Sun 17 Feb 2019 10:19 AM by

gruenesschaf

keen wrote: ↑
Sat 16 Feb 2019 10:06 PM
Clipping distance is for sure a problem on Phoenix. I guess they lowered it to take pressure from the server. Not sure if it can be made live like with the current player numbers.

Clipping distance is still 5600 which is the max what the client allows.

Sun 17 Feb 2019 12:35 PM by keen

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sun 17 Feb 2019 10:19 AM
keen wrote: ↑
Sat 16 Feb 2019 10:06 PM
Clipping distance is for sure a problem on Phoenix. I guess they lowered it to take pressure from the server. Not sure if it can be made live like with the current player numbers.

Clipping distance is still 5600 which is the max what the client allows.

Sorry for the false statement then. Time to blame my panning again.

Sun 17 Feb 2019 7:41 PM by phixion

Why are we even talking about the interrupt part, lets stick to the topic of it dropping speed and screwing over everyone who chooses to run out with less than 8 man in bottleneck OF.

Sun 17 Feb 2019 9:25 PM by Ceen

phixion wrote: ↑
Sun 17 Feb 2019 7:41 PM
Why are we even talking about the interrupt part, lets stick to the topic of it dropping speed and screwing over everyone who chooses to run out with less than 8 man in bottleneck OF.

I run small man withou any problems.

Sun 17 Feb 2019 9:37 PM by Quik

Ceen wrote: ↑
Sun 17 Feb 2019 9:25 PM
phixion wrote: ↑
Sun 17 Feb 2019 7:41 PM
Why are we even talking about the interrupt part, lets stick to the topic of it dropping speed and screwing over everyone who chooses to run out with less than 8 man in bottleneck OF.
I run small man withou any problems.

This. When I was on Hib on my Bard I ran small man a lot with my guild, we just had to pick and choose our fights a little more, and on Mid I have had the same exact experience playing my Skald.

Sun 17 Feb 2019 10:22 PM by Tavi

Btw, this post was about if amnesia should break speed or not. There is no need to change anything else on that ability.

The only thing that bothers me is that, if you get spotted as a small group, mids will chase you for 10~ seconds, hibs will chase u until they get u. On OF maps you cannot outrun a Hib group.

In the end its not even that bad, since there is no rezz sickness...

Mon 18 Feb 2019 12:09 AM by dansari

This isn't a small man vs 8 man getting caught issue. So many strawmans. The issue is that *one realm* has the ability to choose whether or not it wants to engage a fight at 2300 range instantaneously. (Ironically and on an unrelated note, the one realm which also controls static objectives better than either opposing realm.)

Mon 18 Feb 2019 2:26 AM by phixion

dansari wrote: ↑
Mon 18 Feb 2019 12:09 AM
This isn't a small man vs 8 man getting caught issue. So many strawmans. The issue is that *one realm* has the ability to choose whether or not it wants to engage a fight at 2300 range instantaneously. (Ironically and on an unrelated note, the one realm which also controls static objectives better than either opposing realm.)

I come at it from a small man perspective because that's all I play, if I can't play small man then I log on my stealther.

I find myself on my stealther more and more just because I hate the fact that amnesia dictates the game so much.

I refuse to feed easy RPs to Hibs...

Mon 18 Feb 2019 4:12 AM by pseudoethic

dansari wrote: ↑
Sun 17 Feb 2019 9:16 AM
Drominchen wrote: ↑
Sun 17 Feb 2019 9:08 AM
I say casted amnesia (and red charmed pets -> minstrel) are the only real counter without zephyr vs moc. I longed for a casted amnesia for years on bard! Ever tried to "interrupt" a mocing theurg or healer that have cc immunities?

Instant amnesia is no reliable rupt and no reliable counter vs anything but it is the only thing that makes it possible to get your mezz cast through on a race without dex bonus

The point is that the counters are nonexistent or out of whack.

How do you counter insta amnesia before a fight starts? SoS..

How do you counter insta amnesia vs 2 bard groups as a seer? MoC..

Regardless, the primary issue is that it drops speed. Plenty of solutions have been provided to make this more fair:

1. Change it so it doesn't drop speed.
2. Make it like every other amnesia and on a cast time (you'd enjoy that right?)
3. Drop its range to 1850 or 1500.

I don't see any logical arguments outside of "muhh hib signature" to suggest that this isn't a popular proposal.

Thought of an easy one: don't engage in an open field battle with a hib group without your instas up, or learn how to position yourself. If willing to clash, learn how to use line of sight to your advantage or adapt a scatter strategy. This embarrassingly whiny, self-indulgent need to call for a nerf because you can't figure out how albs and mids learned to fight hibs over a decade ago (with a spell that was never modified since the game released) should and will be ignored.

Mon 18 Feb 2019 6:01 AM by dansari

pseudoethic wrote: ↑
Mon 18 Feb 2019 4:12 AM
Thought of an easy one: don't engage in an open field battle with a hib group without your instas up, or learn how to position yourself. If willing to clash, learn how to use line of sight to your advantage or adapt a scatter strategy. This embarrassingly whiny, self-indulgent need to call for a nerf because you can't figure out how albs and mids learned to fight hibs over a decade ago (with a spell that was never modified since the game released) should and will be ignored.

That's cute. "Just don't engage the 2300 insta amnesia." Please invite me to your utopia where we all play on flat ground with full knowledge of every opposing group. Your petulant dismissal shows how you truly fail to grasp any semblance of the issue, and your "hurr durr" live argument fails to acknowledge any and all other changes that have been made to the game since 2001 via creating a strawman about how "no changes have been made" to this specific, egregious imbalance over time. To catch a Hib group, the range is 1500 for Alb/Mid. When Hibs catch a group, the range is 2300. So in pure engagements alone, Hib range advantage is 53% better than Alb or Mid. Their effective safe zone gives them a giant buffer. It is in essence like Hib is playing an assassin and Alb and Mid are both playing ranged stealthers, where Hib has ample opportunity to choose the fights they want to engage in, and they don't need to worry about retaliation at the same range from the opposition.

Mon 18 Feb 2019 9:59 AM by Sepplord

Infight and during INC bards/hibs having instant amnesia is fine. It has upsides and downsides, and having that changed is a HUGE discussion, but for another topic (and i don't think changing the core infight mechanics is needed)

The onbvious imbalance is as already stated, but i want to repeat because it seems many people get sidetracked or do not realise the main problem is the imbalance in picking your fights.

ATM only hib-grps have the ability to pick their fights reliably. And if i was playing a serious 8man set-grp i would heavily consider rerolling Hib or maybe in some cases even quitting. Two equally skilled groups meet each other, but the hib-grp is the one that can always decide, "nah, not now" while Mids/Albs have to wait until the hibs want to fight. I am talking about grps that play to never die, that is always a huge target and usually not sustainable over long sessions....but to even set it as a goal you need to play hib here.
The problem also extends onto smallmans but they get zerged a lot anyways, have other priorities and often do not play as seriously as the set-groups do, so for us the problem doesn't seem as bad as it is.

Nerfing the range seems like the best solution, it doesn't change the infight usage, and has little to no effect on the realm-interaction during front-incs, while at the same time evening the playing field regarding the ability to pick your fight

Mon 18 Feb 2019 10:49 AM by Tritri

You pick your fight with instant amnesia ?

So let's say, there is a mid group that is coming in front, on a plain field and you "don't want to engage using amnesia" as you are implying if I'm not mistaken.

Bard uses AoE Amnesia on the mid group, if he's lucky and they are not sleeping, he will hit maybe max 4 targets. Then they start running away
Let's say it's a tank group so 2 heals - sham - skald - war -zerk/savage to complete, no caster whatsoever, pretty bad comp but for the sake of the argument it's really a bad group to catch people up
Bard loses speed a few seconds later and the 4 targets loses it aswell

If any of the skald - sham - heals hasn't been hit by the amnesia, the hib group can not run away

But they can still manage to disengage depending on how the fight goes, and they can even take advantage of the situation if the mid group tries to run too deep since most hib comp are based on casters that kills overextended targets.

You can easily imagine how the hib group isn't going to be able to fly away against a greater number of enemies if they decide to chase

To be honest, when you really want to avoid a fight, you avoid using amnesia to cut speed, you are far better off trying to run in speed 6 and lose them, or letting them engage and using SoS

Amnesia doesn't help running away, it helps catching up

Mon 18 Feb 2019 11:10 AM by Druth

Tritri wrote: ↑
Mon 18 Feb 2019 10:49 AM
You pick your fight with instant amnesia ?

So let's say, there is a mid group that is coming in front, on a plain field and you "don't want to engage using amnesia" as you are implying if I'm not mistaken.

Bard uses AoE Amnesia on the mid group, if he's lucky and they are not sleeping, he will hit maybe max 4 targets. Then they start running away
Let's say it's a tank group so 2 heals - sham - skald - war -zerk/savage to complete, no caster whatsoever, pretty bad comp but for the sake of the argument it's really a bad group to catch people up
Bard loses speed a few seconds later and the 4 targets loses it aswell

If any of the skald - sham - heals hasn't been hit by the amnesia, the hib group can not run away

But they can still manage to disengage depending on how the fight goes, and they can even take advantage of the situation if the mid group tries to run too deep since most hib comp are based on casters that kills overextended targets.

You can easily imagine how the hib group isn't going to be able to fly away against a greater number of enemies if they decide to chase

To be honest, when you really want to avoid a fight, you avoid using amnesia to cut speed, you are far better off trying to run in speed 6 and lose them, or letting them engage and using SoS

Amnesia doesn't help running away, it helps catching up

Think it has been fairly obvious in the posts, that people complain Hibs are the only realm that has the ability to "force" a fight, if both groups are on same speed.

Hibs don't run caster groups here, they run hybrid, it seems, mixing up bm/hero/eld/chant and such.
And with 2 bards in group, or even one, it's a small loss for bard to drop speed, if you can drop speed on 3-4 targets in enemy group.

Amnesia was like this in classic, but people have better knowledge today and very few don't understand how to use it.

Insta amnesia is very strong, but you can't say "reduce range" without giving bards something else.
RvR right now, group v group, is fairly balanced, and Mids seem to dominate slightly more than Hibs, with albs being bottom.
So I think making any nerfs this significant would be a major mistake.

Is amnesia strong? Hell yeah! Please stop pretending it's not.
Does it warrant a nerf? Hell no, not unless you compensate (bard spam amnesia+360 evade, or root etc...).

Mon 18 Feb 2019 11:42 AM by Sepplord

Tritri wrote: ↑
Mon 18 Feb 2019 10:49 AM
You pick your fight with instant amnesia ?

So let's say, there is a mid group that is coming in front, on a plain field and you "don't want to engage using amnesia" as you are implying if I'm not mistaken.

Bard uses AoE Amnesia on the mid group, if he's lucky and they are not sleeping, he will hit maybe max 4 targets. Then they start running away
Let's say it's a tank group so 2 heals - sham - skald - war -zerk/savage to complete, no caster whatsoever, pretty bad comp but for the sake of the argument it's really a bad group to catch people up
Bard loses speed a few seconds later and the 4 targets loses it aswell

If any of the skald - sham - heals hasn't been hit by the amnesia, the hib group can not run away

But they can still manage to disengage depending on how the fight goes, and they can even take advantage of the situation if the mid group tries to run too deep since most hib comp are based on casters that kills overextended targets.

You can easily imagine how the hib group isn't going to be able to fly away against a greater number of enemies if they decide to chase

To be honest, when you really want to avoid a fight, you avoid using amnesia to cut speed, you are far better off trying to run in speed 6 and lose them, or letting them engage and using SoS

Amnesia doesn't help running away, it helps catching up

uhhh...Hib's don't avoid fights by using amnesia....they avoid fights by being able to run away without getting hit by instant-2300range-speed removal
That's the whole point. A hib-grp can decide to run away, or engage a group that chose to run away with amnesia.
Albs/Hibs have nothing to catch a group running away

Mon 18 Feb 2019 12:05 PM by keen

Druth wrote: ↑
Mon 18 Feb 2019 11:10 AM
Insta amnesia is very strong, but you can't say "reduce range" without giving bards something else.
RvR right now, group v group, is fairly balanced, and Mids seem to dominate slightly more than Hibs, with albs being bottom.
So I think making any nerfs this significant would be a major mistake.

For 8v8 a 1875 range would do nothing to the outcome of the fight. This is not old ra where you need your amnesia range for 20second fights.
8v8 fights last 3-5min here and the initial engage is far less important.

Mon 18 Feb 2019 1:24 PM by Ceen

Ok 1875 range might be enough QQ

Mon 18 Feb 2019 2:27 PM by MiNDmaZing

Yes pleas reduce the range, it is really overpowered.

Mon 18 Feb 2019 4:21 PM by dansari

Tritri wrote: ↑
Mon 18 Feb 2019 10:49 AM
Amnesia doesn't help running away, it helps catching up

Thank you for helping to prove the point.

Wed 20 Feb 2019 2:21 AM by pseudoethic

dansari wrote: ↑
Mon 18 Feb 2019 6:01 AM
pseudoethic wrote: ↑
Mon 18 Feb 2019 4:12 AM
Thought of an easy one: don't engage in an open field battle with a hib group without your instas up, or learn how to position yourself. If willing to clash, learn how to use line of sight to your advantage or adapt a scatter strategy. This embarrassingly whiny, self-indulgent need to call for a nerf because you can't figure out how albs and mids learned to fight hibs over a decade ago (with a spell that was never modified since the game released) should and will be ignored.

That's cute. "Just don't engage the 2300 insta amnesia." Please invite me to your utopia where we all play on flat ground with full knowledge of every opposing group. Your petulant dismissal shows how you truly fail to grasp any semblance of the issue, and your "hurr durr" live argument fails to acknowledge any and all other changes that have been made to the game since 2001 via creating a strawman about how "no changes have been made" to this specific, egregious imbalance over time. To catch a Hib group, the range is 1500 for Alb/Mid. When Hibs catch a group, the range is 2300. So in pure engagements alone, Hib range advantage is 53% better than Alb or Mid. Their effective safe zone gives them a giant buffer. It is in essence like Hib is playing an assassin and Alb and Mid are both playing ranged stealthers, where Hib has ample opportunity to choose the fights they want to engage in, and they don't need to worry about retaliation at the same range from the opposition.

If you had any self-reflection skill at all you wouldn't use "petulant" to describe a counterpoint while simultaneously whining in every post you make. Secondly, you have misconstrued "strawman" enough times to bother anybody who knows what that actually means. What you're arguing is to not have to adapt to the range of hibs amnesia because you don't want to have to run away sooner than when engaging a battle with albs or mids. It is a terrible argument, was understood from the beginning and I'll reiterate the reason this should be ignored is because even years ago people learned how to run away and engage the battle on their own terms as a counter. It is simple, you see hibs, don't run into the group that is willing to fight you within 2300 units. No changes had to be made to the spell, because the only change needed was one in strategy. The variables of whether instas and RA's are up only favor you against your bolt-range amnesia boogeyman. You can do it. Most successful mid and albs groups do this and they aren't complaining about amnesia when they lose because their driver failed to react.

Also, this "hurr durr, edgy pseudo-intellectual witty remark, muh cognitive dissonance" doesn't add anything argumentative and only shows you are being emotional instead of rational. Just relax, I know losing is hard, but it should teach you how to win.

Wed 20 Feb 2019 7:20 AM by Calad

Instant speed, incredibly short recast time, 2300 range, puts stealthers in combat (can't stealth when i get those little blue dots above me), and "breaks" speed song.

Yeah, this needs to be tuned just a little bit

Fri 22 Feb 2019 3:08 AM by Kaozium

dudis wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Feb 2019 10:13 AM
Amnesia makes you "forget" what you were doing. If you are casting a spell, you are not actually interrupted, but rather you finish the animation but dont actually cast the spell. You can immediately start casting again.

It drops speed because you "forget" the NEXT tick of the chant/song. Thats why you get the delay before it breaks. Im not sure if you can just cancel and then play speed again to get the next tick anyways.

Let me know if I'm just remembering amnesias interraction with pusling spells incorrectly.

Correct me if I'm wrong but, only the musician is casting the song. And amnesia will break speed on anyone affected. You can't really forget what you're not casting, here you get the speed applied to you by another member of the group. What you say about amnesia is true but I think the speed break is a special case, and there is a delay because otherwise instant amnesia would be too strong for breaking speed considering its range.

Fri 22 Feb 2019 1:12 PM by Hector

No need to nerf amnesia. This is a core mechanic available to Hib and should not be changed. I see a trend on these forums where players think that just because an ability is really good it should be nerfed, yet all 3 realms have unique abilities that are "overpowered". Sorc has boltrange mezz should we change that too? Savage has highest raw dps should we change that too? Healer can mezz root stun should we change that too?

Fri 22 Feb 2019 3:43 PM by gameandsave

Just here to say nerf hib amnesia thx

Fri 22 Feb 2019 4:13 PM by Llaw

Some simple scenarios:

Problem #1: I am getting chased down and killed by Hib groups when I run small man, because of amnesia.

Answer #1: Then get more people? Nobody is forcing you to play small man. If you do, accept that you're a small man, and you'll get bullied by bigger groups.

Problem #2: I am getting chased down and killed by Hib groups, when our groups are the same size, because of amnesia.

Answer #2: Then get better.

Problem #3 (hopefully hypothetical): I am getting chased down and killed by Hib groups, even if their numbers are lower than ours, because of amnesia.

Answer #3: Then the problem isn't amnesia. It's you (and your small man). Now we've covered all three possible scenarios and in none of them, you can blame amnesia for losing.

I understand that fighting foes that are a challenge is annoying, but that's life. You can't just run around with your small man, ganking soloers, levelers or adding on stuff with the zerg for your whole life. If that is how you want to play this game, then lmao.

Before you start blaming in-game mechanics that has existed in the game for almost 20 years, ask yourself why the mechanic has existed for almost 20 years.

Can't believe there's somebody who is actually running small mans in 2019 and complaining about getting speed broken by insta-amnesia.

YIKES.

Fri 22 Feb 2019 6:12 PM by dansari

pseudoethic wrote: ↑
Wed 20 Feb 2019 2:21 AM
dansari wrote: ↑
Mon 18 Feb 2019 6:01 AM
pseudoethic wrote: ↑
Mon 18 Feb 2019 4:12 AM
Thought of an easy one: don't engage in an open field battle with a hib group without your instas up, or learn how to position yourself. If willing to clash, learn how to use line of sight to your advantage or adapt a scatter strategy. This embarrassingly whiny, self-indulgent need to call for a nerf because you can't figure out how albs and mids learned to fight hibs over a decade ago (with a spell that was never modified since the game released) should and will be ignored.

That's cute. "Just don't engage the 2300 insta amnesia." Please invite me to your utopia where we all play on flat ground with full knowledge of every opposing group. Your petulant dismissal shows how you truly fail to grasp any semblance of the issue, and your "hurr durr" live argument fails to acknowledge any and all other changes that have been made to the game since 2001 via creating a strawman about how "no changes have been made" to this specific, egregious imbalance over time. To catch a Hib group, the range is 1500 for Alb/Mid. When Hibs catch a group, the range is 2300. So in pure engagements alone, Hib range advantage is 53% better than Alb or Mid. Their effective safe zone gives them a giant buffer. It is in essence like Hib is playing an assassin and Alb and Mid are both playing ranged stealthers, where Hib has ample opportunity to choose the fights they want to engage in, and they don't need to worry about retaliation at the same range from the opposition.

If you had any self-reflection skill at all you wouldn't use "petulant" to describe a counterpoint while simultaneously whining in every post you make. Secondly, you have misconstrued "strawman" enough times to bother anybody who knows what that actually means. What you're arguing is to not have to adapt to the range of hibs amnesia because you don't want to have to run away sooner than when engaging a battle with albs or mids. It is a terrible argument, was understood from the beginning and I'll reiterate the reason this should be ignored is because even years ago people learned how to run away and engage the battle on their own terms as a counter. It is simple, you see hibs, don't run into the group that is willing to fight you within 2300 units. No changes had to be made to the spell, because the only change needed was one in strategy. The variables of whether instas and RA's are up only favor you against your bolt-range amnesia boogeyman. You can do it. Most successful mid and albs groups do this and they aren't complaining about amnesia when they lose because their driver failed to react.

Also, this "hurr durr, edgy pseudo-intellectual witty remark, muh cognitive dissonance" doesn't add anything argumentative and only shows you are being emotional instead of rational. Just relax, I know losing is hard, but it should teach you how to win.

K. So no answer to the gross imbalance (53%) in engage range, just more hurr durr utopia l2p garbage. Your sig needs to show your hib classes.

Sat 23 Feb 2019 4:05 PM by Sepplord

Llaw wrote: ↑
Fri 22 Feb 2019 4:13 PM
Some simple scenarios:

Problem #1: I am getting chased down and killed by Hib groups when I run small man, because of amnesia.

Answer #1: Then get more people? Nobody is forcing you to play small man. If you do, accept that you're a small man, and you'll get bullied by bigger groups.

Problem #2: I am getting chased down and killed by Hib groups, when our groups are the same size, because of amnesia.

Answer #2: Then get better.

Problem #3 (hopefully hypothetical): I am getting chased down and killed by Hib groups, even if their numbers are lower than ours, because of amnesia.

Answer #3: Then the problem isn't amnesia. It's you (and your small man). Now we've covered all three possible scenarios and in none of them, you can blame amnesia for losing.

I understand that fighting foes that are a challenge is annoying, but that's life. You can't just run around with your small man, ganking soloers, levelers or adding on stuff with the zerg for your whole life. If that is how you want to play this game, then lmao.

Before you start blaming in-game mechanics that has existed in the game for almost 20 years, ask yourself why the mechanic has existed for almost 20 years.

Can't believe there's somebody who is actually running small mans in 2019 and complaining about getting speed broken by insta-amnesia.

YIKES.

That post makes a lot of sense as long as non as you do not add -or play hibernia- to the list...

And "NO" Good 8man grp simply charges straight on into every fight. Picking Time and Place to engage is a huge Part of set-grps Skill, and currently that skill is not as usable VS hibgrps while they do not suffer from the same problems and can simply run away

Sat 9 Mar 2019 7:40 PM by phixion

Thread seems to have died a bit and currently no word from staff regarding this skill, so here's a bump and some reasoning behind my feelings regarding Hib Amnesia.

I have seen more and more people rolling stealthers--primary reasons being that it's hard to get a group or that it's impossible to small man due to zergs and amnesia.

Are Hib really going to be the only realm allowed to pick and choose their fights here?

Personally, my visible is as good as dead. I won't be logging on to it until something is done about amnesia's speed breaking ability.

I know that's not a big loss for you, but I know this view is shared by many others and you also risk losing those players to either Hib or a stealth class.

If I was going to play a visible now, I'd roll it on Hib... And lets look at the population numbers across realms, Hib seem to be doing very well in that department already.

Sat 9 Mar 2019 9:58 PM by Ceen

phixion wrote: ↑
Sat 9 Mar 2019 7:40 PM
Thread seems to have died a bit and currently no word from staff regarding this skill, so here's a bump and some reasoning behind my feelings regarding Hib Amnesia.

I have seen more and more people rolling stealthers--primary reasons being that it's hard to get a group or that it's impossible to small man due to zergs and amnesia.

Are Hib really going to be the only realm allowed to pick and choose their fights here?

Personally, my visible is as good as dead. I won't be logging on to it until something is done about amnesia's speed breaking ability.

I know that's not a big loss for you, but I know this view is shared by many others and you also risk losing those players to either Hib or a stealth class.

If I was going to play a visible now, I'd roll it on Hib... And lets look at the population numbers across realms, Hib seem to be doing very well in that department already.

I simple always roam mids area and never hib, kinda work around ^^

Sun 10 Mar 2019 6:27 AM by Bumbles

John from Broadsword on Live has admitted that Amnesia in it's current form is broken and not meant to break speed but he also stated that with the old code there is little the can to do work around it. People who defend a known broken mechanic are delusional. Nothing will change here. Just learn to live with it and know that Bards laugh while they spam an insta that ruins your day.

Sun 10 Mar 2019 7:00 AM by AngelRose

Summary of entire thread:

Hibs: Amnesia is fine
Everyone else: Amnesia breaking speed is OP

Sun 10 Mar 2019 3:35 PM by MiNDmaZing

Today it happened to me 4 times a full group hibs chase me down and drop me out of speed 6 wih tiny blue dots. I dont get it why isnt the bard losing speed too. And why is the range so pathetic. Vs the other realm its not that problem. It seems also that they dont need LoS for this. If i run in grp, the first thing each fight against hibs starts is amnesia. Look all the twitch or phoenix videos, all bards spam this first. I assume sorc / pac have a hard time to win a CC duel. An dont tell ne amnesia isnt that good, when everyone uses it?

Sun 10 Mar 2019 6:02 PM by Fribrand

AngelRose wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Mar 2019 7:00 AM
Hibs: Amnesia is fine
Everyone else: Amnesia breaking speed is OP

I do not understand why this has not already had a range reduction???
I was told that this server was created because other free-shards did not listen to the players or react to their requests?
There is plenty of information that supports that anything with a huge range, inst-cast AND AoE is OP...

If the staff wont reduce the range of Amnesia then I want them to give the inst-cast stun/mezz classes in Alb an increase to 2300 for their single target versions.
Limiting these more powerful spells to the single target version seems balanced and everyone KNOWS that Alb is the weakest of the 3 anyway.

If any Hib protests this... then they acknowledge that the range i truly OP.

Sun 10 Mar 2019 7:01 PM by sprinkle

if it hasn't happened by now it wont be

Sun 10 Mar 2019 9:58 PM by keen

Bumbles wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Mar 2019 6:27 AM
John from Broadsword on Live has admitted that Amnesia in it's current form is broken and not meant to break speed but he also stated that with the old code there is little the can to do work around it. People who defend a known broken mechanic are delusional. Nothing will change here. Just learn to live with it and know that Bards laugh while they spam an insta that ruins your day.

Hard to believe, amnesia has broken speed since ever. They also have Devs at broadsword so it's easy for them to fix if they wanted to change it.
They limited range to 1875 units for a reason on live and I think should be applied here as well.

Sun 10 Mar 2019 10:11 PM by Falken

Only people defending this ridiculous ability is hibs and bards because it is their greatest catch tool. Break their speed zerg em down boys! It is great at its core for rupting, but should either be made to not break speed (which puts them on par with everybody else) or at least an 1875 range... 2300 is a crazy range and only people defending it is hibs.

Sun 10 Mar 2019 10:18 PM by Fribrand

keen wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Mar 2019 9:58 PM
Hard to believe, amnesia has broken speed since ever. They also have Devs at broadsword so it's easy for them to fix if they wanted to change it.
They limited range to 1875 units for a reason on live and I think should be applied here as well.

Let us VOTE!

Sun 10 Mar 2019 11:08 PM by jonl

if you are finding that insta amnesia is op, you do not have a good understanding of the game

Sun 10 Mar 2019 11:55 PM by Fribrand

It is not that Amnesia is OP on a certain class...
The problem is that Amnesia is OP in group actions.

Can the developers here pick 1 class from each of the other 2 realms and assign them the Amnesia type ability too?
If the Hibs say that that is not fair... then they of basically saying that only they deserve this special ability.

There have been and always will be complaints about balance in this game... some warranted and some not...
The best way for me to determine if something is OP is to think if I want my opponents to have it or not?
I am OK with Amnesia breaking speed if the guy has to get within a range of < 1500 which exposes himself to actual danger from his opponents.
Either that... or it has a cast time so that others have a chance to run out of range.

The number of classes for each realm is the primary contributor for class imbalance.
People argue that the 12 classes of Mid need all the same abilities overall that are spread among the 13 Hibs and the 14 Albs.
This creates stronger individual Mids and watered down Albs as compared to Hibs.
No easy fix for the developers... Not now or way back when.
Maybe introduce one of the new classes for Mid and remove/transfer some abilities to that new class and
delete one offering from Alb and distribute their abilities... This, of course, will upset many.

The alternative is to allow some overlap so that all 14 Alb classes can have the same utility to a group.
This would mean that more than 1 Alb would have the max speed and/or the best mezz and or the best stun... just not all on the same class.
It has always seemed to me that the Albs had trouble getting a group of 8 that has equal abilities to other realms.

Group utility is what I think the complaint that initiated this chat is all about.

Mon 11 Mar 2019 12:46 PM by dansari

jonl wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Mar 2019 11:08 PM
if you are finding that insta amnesia is op, you do not have a good understanding of the game

No one is saying it's OP. Everyone is saying that it's unfair that it drops speed. Either defend the ability genuinely or add your hib classes to your sig so everyone knows you're just shilling for your realm to keep this broken mess.

Mon 11 Mar 2019 12:56 PM by Durgrim

..and again:
It is not about fiddling here a skill, there a skill, here a range, there a damage.
The skills are how they are, so are the classes.
Here on Phoenix, the side wins who brings more people organized together.

So any decent RvR Raidleader who manages to bring 24-48 good people in good setup together will dominate wherever he goes. He will take whatever keep he wants, whatever relic he wants whenever he wants as long as the other side is not organized or running in separated FGs only.
For the opposite realms it must look like zerg, but zerg in its definition, is something completely different.

You really give the Devs here hard times by challenging skill to skill over the time when the solution of the problem (not dieing and gaining more rp like the other side) is mainly NOT the skill itself but more the incapability to run well organized.
I have not seen mass amnesia killing a raid of 4 groups yet. Someone tell me different when I am not experienced enough here.

Mon 11 Mar 2019 1:56 PM by dansari

What? Why are we defining an ability (when the entire point of the thread is how it creates an imbalance in picking fights for one realm) by how inconsequential it is in clashes of 50 on 50? I guess that's what happens when you can't defend an ability: just create fictional situations and defend it from fantasy land. It's much easier than defending reality.

Mon 11 Mar 2019 1:59 PM by phixion

jonl wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Mar 2019 11:08 PM
if you are finding that insta amnesia is op, you do not have a good understanding of the game

I fail to see your logic, sorry.

How does me understanding a game which I've played since release, stop me from being slowed when amnesia hits my head?

Hib player spotted.

There is absolutely no reason for this ability to keep it's speed dropping aspect, remove that and it's fixed as far as I'm concerned.

Mon 11 Mar 2019 2:13 PM by reptar

Hib amnesia requires some changes in strategy. If I see 3+ hibs running, I know to turn around immediately and run until I can better determine if the fight is worth taking. Sometimes I'm not quick enough and they close the 2300 range to get me.

It does seem a bit overpowered. The only things I can think to balance it are:
a) increase the resist rate significantly and make resists not break speed
or
b) have amnesia not break speed at all but still otherwise clear casting.

But I do acknowledge that both of those suggestions completely neuter the strong amnesia ability we have right now. Not sure that hibs would accept it.

Mon 11 Mar 2019 2:55 PM by MiNDmaZing

If you see a full hib grp on your screen and just turn to run away its already too late. If someone casts a nearsight on 2300 range i am totally fine with it. Even with sos u cant escape cause they catch you

Mon 11 Mar 2019 3:42 PM by Boric

Im sure most of the bards would give up amnesia, but in return would take AE Stuns and Celerity.

No? Ok, we will take mez dampening, charm-able pets and strong nukes and life-taps and bolt range on our mez.

People that want mirror classes can go play WoW.

Mon 11 Mar 2019 5:22 PM by Tiesto422

its not that insta amnesia is blatantly op. it just has no direct counter, and in the hands of a skilled player is deadly. so yeah, feels like bad design.

Mon 11 Mar 2019 5:48 PM by tyrantanic

keen wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Mar 2019 9:58 PM
Bumbles wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Mar 2019 6:27 AM
John from Broadsword on Live has admitted that Amnesia in it's current form is broken and not meant to break speed but he also stated that with the old code there is little the can to do work around it. People who defend a known broken mechanic are delusional. Nothing will change here. Just learn to live with it and know that Bards laugh while they spam an insta that ruins your day.
Hard to believe, amnesia has broken speed since ever. They also have Devs at broadsword so it's easy for them to fix if they wanted to change it.
They limited range to 1875 units for a reason on live and I think should be applied here as well.

The current range of instant amnesia on live is 2000 units. People still complain.

Mon 11 Mar 2019 6:10 PM by Roto23

They should make bard ae amnesia castable and no timer. They can keep their single insta amnesia with the short timer. What is the times 6 seconds?

Mon 11 Mar 2019 6:19 PM by Roto23

Ninefingers wrote: ↑
Sat 16 Feb 2019 8:53 AM
The problem is the range. It takes any skill in avoiding a hib group out of the equation. Even if you are panning, and turn as soon as you see a hib group and are running at speed 6 you will get hit with amnesia. THIS is the problem , especially for smallmans and solo's, it completely takes choice of engagement out of the equation. People say things have always been like this, but i cannot remember this situation on live or on any other freeshard. If you are doing your job right, panning and see the enemy at clip at speed 6 you should be able to get away and that is simply not the case here.

Reduce range on amnesia to 1500, or at worst 2000 but NOT 2300. They still have their 'speciality' which is the instant cast speed breaking ability but now solo's and smallman have some choice about engagement if they are doing it right and panning.

This guy hit the nail on the head. If you pan and see them at clip, you should get rewarded with the choice to run or fight. Cut the damn range down !!!!!!!

Mon 11 Mar 2019 6:26 PM by Roto23

Drominchen wrote: ↑
Sun 17 Feb 2019 8:30 AM
dansari wrote: ↑
Sun 17 Feb 2019 8:21 AM
After fighting against a really good 2 bard group tonight I don't understand how you counter insta amnesia even during fights. The insta lvl 2 amnesia is perfect for rupting seers and it's on a 5s cooldown. Five seconds, and you can pop it while running. I have changed my original opinion and think it needs to match all other amnesia and be on a cast time.

Yes it is on 5s cooldown and it only rupts when it gets resisted. After fighting a mid group I don't understand how you counter a bonedancer with instant lifetap on 4s cooldown and instant body debuff on 5s. Both spells are perfect for rupting the whole support line. Four and five seconds spells that always rupt and you can pop them while running and you also get 3-4 pets that can rupt different targets!

You should always try to see the whole image. Because of instant amnesia Hib cannot counter any MoC for example.

whats the range on the BD's instas please?

Mon 11 Mar 2019 6:28 PM by lolhisup

Ya basically, the way this game works is, first you need max speed, or at least greater or equal speed to your enemies. If you don't satisfy these conditions and your opponent is faster than you, then either they can just run away from you and you will never be able to catch them since they're moving faster, or they can just run and wait until you're at a disadvantaged position, and then attack.

Basically speed can let you choose where and when to fight.

Now, Hib Amnesia is retarded. Just Bard in general, is retarded. 2300 range, instant amnesia, you have AoE one and single target. Also, you have the instant mezzes. Nobody can try to interrupt you or stop you. The only way someone is going to get the jump on you is if you are 100% caught off guard, but since you're a Bard you're moving at maximum speed so that makes it difficult to catch you, coupled with the Inc Lag in this game, it is obvious, to me at least, when an enemy comes within rendering range. So it is like you basically have the first move down pat.

If the opponent group is smart I guess they will unstick and spread out so not everyone gets mezzed at once I guess then it can be a "fair" fight (but it doesn't really matter because if everyone in their group is moving at maximum speed, they will all be up and in your business and you're amnesia'd before you can even do anything really, the best thing you can try to do is get some space between you and them but they're moving at the same speed as you, if you're lucky) but still, 2300 range instant interrupt is game breaking, it is like it is always your turn if you're a Bard. The fact is most hib groups have like 5 bards in it. It is like instant win by default.

This game is like rock paper scissors, except hib gets to play 2 moves at a time. And rock paper scissors is a best case to explain this game. It is even worse if you aren't running the META style of group. It isn't even rock paper scissors then, it is just, 100% you lose. Welcome to Dark Age of Camelot, the greatest mmo ever made.

Mon 11 Mar 2019 6:31 PM by Roto23

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sun 17 Feb 2019 10:19 AM
keen wrote: ↑
Sat 16 Feb 2019 10:06 PM
Clipping distance is for sure a problem on Phoenix. I guess they lowered it to take pressure from the server. Not sure if it can be made live like with the current player numbers.

Clipping distance is still 5600 which is the max what the client allows.

No way are player characters clipping at 5600 becasue as soon as I see a hib grp, I do a 180 degree turn, I get hit with 2300 insta amnesia about 1 second later. both grps at speed 6

Mon 11 Mar 2019 6:37 PM by phixion

Boric wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Mar 2019 3:42 PM
Im sure most of the bards would give up amnesia, but in return would take AE Stuns and Celerity.

No? Ok, we will take mez dampening, charm-able pets and strong nukes and life-taps and bolt range on our mez.

People that want mirror classes can go play WoW.

How would the removal of the speed dropping aspect be unfair to hibs? It's already insta, it's already way longer range than any other realm has.

You are comparing apples to oranges, and you know you are.

Lets not pretend the devs are afraid of hurting peoples feelings here, assassins had their poisons nerfed in to the ground yet there's still plenty playing them. I'm sure there will still be plenty of Bards running around considering they're a requirement for Hib groups if they want speed.

Mon 11 Mar 2019 6:41 PM by sprinkle

No way are player characters clipping at 5600 becasue as soon as I see a hib grp, I do a 180 degree turn, I get hit with 2300 insta amnesia about 1 second later. both grps at speed 6

welcome to window dragging phoenix edition, not 1 person banned for max clip spells yet !

amnesia should put the bard in combat, period

Mon 11 Mar 2019 6:41 PM by Roto23

Tritri wrote: ↑
Mon 18 Feb 2019 10:49 AM
You pick your fight with instant amnesia ?

So let's say, there is a mid group that is coming in front, on a plain field and you "don't want to engage using amnesia" as you are implying if I'm not mistaken.

Bard uses AoE Amnesia on the mid group, if he's lucky and they are not sleeping, he will hit maybe max 4 targets. Then they start running away
Let's say it's a tank group so 2 heals - sham - skald - war -zerk/savage to complete, no caster whatsoever, pretty bad comp but for the sake of the argument it's really a bad group to catch people up
Bard loses speed a few seconds later and the 4 targets loses it aswell

If any of the skald - sham - heals hasn't been hit by the amnesia, the hib group can not run away

But they can still manage to disengage depending on how the fight goes, and they can even take advantage of the situation if the mid group tries to run too deep since most hib comp are based on casters that kills overextended targets.

You can easily imagine how the hib group isn't going to be able to fly away against a greater number of enemies if they decide to chase

To be honest, when you really want to avoid a fight, you avoid using amnesia to cut speed, you are far better off trying to run in speed 6 and lose them, or letting them engage and using SoS

Amnesia doesn't help running away, it helps catching up

Hibs don't use amnesia to run away from a fight. They just turn and run. When Albs or Mids turn and run from Hibs, they get hit with insta Amnesia and are forced to fight and if they were running away in the first place then its a fight they were trying to avoid

Mon 11 Mar 2019 6:46 PM by Boric

I am not comparing apples to oranges.

I am comparing unique realm (class specific) spells.

Is it fair Mids get Celerity?
Is it fair Hibs get Amnesia?
Is it fair Albs get bolt range mez? and a bazilion pets?

Yes, they are all fair and makes the game unique and fun?

Sure, nerf Amnesia range, then also nerf Celerity to 1/4 of the haste, and make it so Theurgs can summon 3 pets only, and lets see what else sometimes kills me? Stealth, I also dislike stealth so remove it.

And to say Live after 15 years change the range so Phoenix should. Well Live did a lot of things so lets add it all then.

Mon 11 Mar 2019 7:12 PM by Roto23

I'd like to offer up a possible solution.
Give Sorcs and Healer insta ae amnesia 2300 and both get to keep their castable versions as well
Give bards a castable Ae amnesia and they can also keep their insta versions.

I can't wait too wtf knock them outta speed and dump all over their denying faces at how op insta ae amnesia is at 2300 range

Mon 11 Mar 2019 10:27 PM by phixion

Boric wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Mar 2019 6:46 PM
I am not comparing apples to oranges.

I am comparing unique realm (class specific) spells.

Is it fair Mids get Celerity?
Is it fair Hibs get Amnesia?
Is it fair Albs get bolt range mez? and a bazilion pets?

Yes, they are all fair and makes the game unique and fun?

Sure, nerf Amnesia range, then also nerf Celerity to 1/4 of the haste, and make it so Theurgs can summon 3 pets only, and lets see what else sometimes kills me? Stealth, I also dislike stealth so remove it.

And to say Live after 15 years change the range so Phoenix should. Well Live did a lot of things so lets add it all then.

Or just remove the speed dropping aspect of amnesia?

Mon 11 Mar 2019 11:10 PM by Lance

insta amnesia is like the only thing hib as a realm has going for it

oh and the legendary green druid pet too.

Mon 11 Mar 2019 11:21 PM by phixion

Lance wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Mar 2019 11:10 PM
insta amnesia is like the only thing hib as a realm has going for it

oh and the legendary green druid pet too.

The instant aspect isn't really in question here.

Mon 11 Mar 2019 11:24 PM by sprinkle

nutin gona happen anyways they all abuse it

everyone abuses everything

the end

Tue 12 Mar 2019 3:35 AM by dansari

I'm sure this inane point will be brought up again by people purposely missing the point so they can keep shilling for their realm, but I will try once again to explain a very simple concept: the argument is not about "unique class abilities." Celerity, aoe stun, bolt mez, the friar's stick, necro pets, theurg pets, and quad hits don't allow for those realms to have an 800 range buffer with which to decide to fight or run. You know what /every/ hib group does on engaging? Fkin 2300 aoe amnesia. That ability allows hib groups to decide whether to fight or run, and it's 800 range more than either of the other two realm's insta engage tools. So either you can come up with an argument to defend why amnesia should drop speed (and this is the only argument. Full stop. There is no other argument outside of this. Let me reiterate: there is no argument other than "amnesia shouldn't drop speed."

If you cannot defend this argument, then please do us all a favor and accept the fact that it's broken and you currently take advantage of the free rps it provides and the imbalance it creates. This is the nicest way I can ask you to stop using logical fallacies to defend the undefendable.

Tue 12 Mar 2019 8:46 AM by Sei

You already cured one cancer removing OF SOS with NF RA

You nerfed minstrel and it was probably required as well

It s Time to heal the bard instant amnesia cancer, by making amne not removing speed at all for all realm.

It would change nothing in terms of fight balance but will allow players to stop being oppressed by this ability without any counterplay.

Tue 12 Mar 2019 1:27 PM by Tenny

This was overwhelmingly hated on live and eventually changed. It's the stupidest I-WIN button for running down lesser numbers available only to one class/realm in the game. I've been playing SB here so haven't had to deal with it much but my hatred carries over from years ago playing live. Nerf that shit.

Tue 12 Mar 2019 2:31 PM by Numatic

Tenny wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Mar 2019 1:27 PM
This was overwhelmingly hated on live and eventually changed. It's the stupidest I-WIN button for running down lesser numbers available only to one class/realm in the game. I've been playing SB here so haven't had to deal with it much but my hatred carries over from years ago playing live. Nerf that shit.

This. It results in about 90% of our deaths on mine and my brothers skald duo. It's literally an I win button against solo/duo/smallmans.

Tue 12 Mar 2019 3:26 PM by Roto23

I wonder if it is even possible for the dev to change all amnesia to not break speed but still interrupt? I would love to know if it is even possible.

Tue 12 Mar 2019 3:34 PM by dansari

It's not even really only about running down smallman groups. I say this because I know shills will come out of their shroom hidey-hole touting "8>2 hurr durr l2p" once again missing the point. Part of engaging intelligently in this game boils down to using your mobility to position yourself in an advantageous spot. One realm currently has an overwhelming advantage to remove that option before the fight begins, and does not have the same 'range of threat' that mid/alb face. Does it decide a fight by itself? Not necessarily. Is it ridiculously imbalanced? Yes. Either equalize the range of threat for all players down to 1500 (for instants), or change amnesia so that it doesn't drop speed.

Tue 12 Mar 2019 3:37 PM by Roto23

Boric wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Mar 2019 6:46 PM
I am not comparing apples to oranges.

I am comparing unique realm (class specific) spells.

Is it fair Mids get Celerity?
Is it fair Hibs get Amnesia?
Is it fair Albs get bolt range mez? and a bazilion pets?

Yes, they are all fair and makes the game unique and fun?

Sure, nerf Amnesia range, then also nerf Celerity to 1/4 of the haste, and make it so Theurgs can summon 3 pets only, and lets see what else sometimes kills me? Stealth, I also dislike stealth so remove it.

And to say Live after 15 years change the range so Phoenix should. Well Live did a lot of things so lets add it all then.

So do you honestly believe that it is fair that if the driver is panning like a freak and at the instant he sees a hib grp and turns and runs, that he should not be rewarded with the chance to run away? The driver showed skill in panning, but that doesn't matter because of the insane range. With it as it is right now this will force smallmans to start radaring.

Tue 12 Mar 2019 3:43 PM by Sepplord

dansari wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Mar 2019 3:34 PM
It's not even really only about running down smallman groups. I say this because I know shills will come out of their shroom hidey-hole touting "8>2 hurr durr l2p" once again missing the point. Part of engaging intelligently in this game boils down to using your mobility to position yourself in an advantageous spot. One realm currently has an overwhelming advantage to remove that option before the fight begins, and does not have the same 'range of threat' that mid/alb face. Does it decide a fight by itself? Not necessarily. Is it ridiculously imbalanced? Yes. Either equalize the range of threat for all players down to 1500 (for instants), or change amnesia so that it doesn't drop speed.

This is what needs to be stressed.

People wanting to remove the instant part, or changing the cooldowns etc. anything that nerfs bard-amnesia INFIGHT are misleading the discussion and (as far as i can tell) unreasonable. All changes that heavily impact infight-balance between the realms could skew balance teribbly and it seems quite balanced currently (or at least balanced enough that you don't want to change it because of a different problem: speedbreaking)

The huge and glaring problem of Bard-Amnesia is that it allows Hibs, and Hibs alone to decide about fighting or not in the range of 1500-2300.
In a game that is all about getting the favorable inc when it comes to anything but the largest scale of RvR.
This is not a niche situation where one realm can benefit in a way others can't, or can't as easy.
The decisionmaking about taking a fight or kiting until the situation is more favorable is what comes at the start of almost all RvR-encounters

Tue 12 Mar 2019 4:08 PM by Citian

I think 1875 is a good adjustment downwards. Still allows hib reach over mids, theyre at range standoff with sorcs and should ultimately win because closing 375 to mez at speed 6 can definitely be done within an interupt. Removes much of the chase incentive by dropping 425 units off the top end range.

Or just do 1500 because its instant. The arguments for amnesia sound very similar to defenses for keeping poison swapping. Using terrain should be a heavy focus versus "its ok we have a realm defining ability."

Tue 12 Mar 2019 7:31 PM by rubaduck

How terrible are you guys at math?

Break it down:

Amnesia has 2300 range for every realm.

Bards gets 2 instant amnesia, one single target and one aoe.

Single target amnesia has 5 second cooldown
AOE Amnesia has 10 seconds cooldown.

You know what means? That means that they will cast amnesia with a much less frequency then enemy groups, but also has to make those amnesias REALLY count. The impact of a bard amnesia is much harder when it hits, but in return they need to time it really well for it to do so.

What about sorcs then?

2 second cast single target.
2 second cast AOE.

With just the cast speed alone, not considering dex or RA's, a sorc can cast 5 aoe amnesias in the very same time a bard can cast 1 instant amnesia. And 2.5 single target amnesias in the same time a bard can cast an instant single target amnesia.

What about healers?

Exactly the same as sorcs, the difference is that they get two of them in a group.

The numbers alone speaks for themselves, so how is this being utilized? A very good bard will outplay a mediocre sorc / healer. But a very good bard will do exactly the same impact as a very good sorc or two very good healers. If this wasn't the case, a hib group with a very good bard would win on inc 10 out of 10 times which they don't.

Also consider that mid also has classes that are being highly utilized in group play that can do instant casts that both interrupt and speed break while still dealing damage. I am of course talking about the BD. A dark BD with 48 Dark 22 Supp gets the instant lifetap at 22 spec, which is a 1500 range instant cast lifetap with only 4 seconds delay and why doesn't that change to a spell with cast time?

Just because it is instant doesn't mean it's overpowered. And if you can't justify it by doing the math, then sorry it just isn't worth talking about adjusting it.

Tue 12 Mar 2019 7:44 PM by Rook

I think the problem here is you have an ability that takes really no learned skill to use to great effect requires a rather high amount of skill and timing to overcome. For your average group this means hibs are going to have the initiative and win most engagements since they dictate those engagements to begin with. I can imagine it's rather demoralizing to never have the initiative during a fight.

Tue 12 Mar 2019 9:53 PM by Milchschnidde

Rook wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Mar 2019 7:44 PM
I think the problem here is you have an ability that takes really no learned skill to use to great effect requires a rather high amount of skill and timing to overcome. For your average group this means hibs are going to have the initiative and win most engagements since they dictate those engagements to begin with. I can imagine it's rather demoralizing to never have the initiative during a fight.

The coolddown amnesia has some disadvanteges, as bard your basic rupt is spamming mezz aoe mezz and every few sec you instant cast amnesia, while every sorc or healer can stay comfortly at 2,3k range and spamm amnesia which is able to interrupt even moc.

As bard you cant interrupt the entire moc of a caster only every 5 secs you may force the caster to take a break...

I would be very happy to get cast amnesia, i would exchange it anytime for cast amnesia...its only great feature is to rupt speed of enemys but in return you also get speedlost as bard...so youre mates may still have speed but you cant chase after them because you are speedless as well...

Wed 13 Mar 2019 5:04 AM by dansari

rubaduck wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Mar 2019 7:31 PM
[Lots of nonsense, irrelevant points that provide no reason why amnesia should drop speed]

Made it easier for people to read your wall of text.

Wed 13 Mar 2019 6:27 AM by Ceen

Milchschnidde wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Mar 2019 9:53 PM
Rook wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Mar 2019 7:44 PM
I think the problem here is you have an ability that takes really no learned skill to use to great effect requires a rather high amount of skill and timing to overcome. For your average group this means hibs are going to have the initiative and win most engagements since they dictate those engagements to begin with. I can imagine it's rather demoralizing to never have the initiative during a fight.

The coolddown amnesia has some disadvanteges, as bard your basic rupt is spamming mezz aoe mezz and every few sec you instant cast amnesia, while every sorc or healer can stay comfortly at 2,3k range and spamm amnesia which is able to interrupt even moc.

As bard you cant interrupt the entire moc of a caster only every 5 secs you may force the caster to take a break...

I would be very happy to get cast amnesia, i would exchange it anytime for cast amnesia...its only great feature is to rupt speed of enemys but in return you also get speedlost as bard...so youre mates may still have speed but you cant chase after them because you are speedless as well...

Trust me you don't want casted amnesia, bard needs instant amnesia to actually work. This skill is amazing infight and I would never trade it for anything. As a huge bonus you can catch everyone

Wed 13 Mar 2019 7:46 AM by Sepplord

rubaduck wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Mar 2019 7:31 PM
How terrible are you guys at math?

Break it down:

Amnesia has 2300 range for every realm.

Bards gets 2 instant amnesia, one single target and one aoe.

Single target amnesia has 5 second cooldown
AOE Amnesia has 10 seconds cooldown.

You know what means? That means that they will cast amnesia with a much less frequency then enemy groups, but also has to make those amnesias REALLY count. The impact of a bard amnesia is much harder when it hits, but in return they need to time it really well for it to do so.

What about sorcs then?

2 second cast single target.
2 second cast AOE.

With just the cast speed alone, not considering dex or RA's, a sorc can cast 5 aoe amnesias in the very same time a bard can cast 1 instant amnesia. And 2.5 single target amnesias in the same time a bard can cast an instant single target amnesia.

What about healers?

Exactly the same as sorcs, the difference is that they get two of them in a group.

The numbers alone speaks for themselves, so how is this being utilized? A very good bard will outplay a mediocre sorc / healer. But a very good bard will do exactly the same impact as a very good sorc or two very good healers. If this wasn't the case, a hib group with a very good bard would win on inc 10 out of 10 times which they don't.

Also consider that mid also has classes that are being highly utilized in group play that can do instant casts that both interrupt and speed break while still dealing damage. I am of course talking about the BD. A dark BD with 48 Dark 22 Supp gets the instant lifetap at 22 spec, which is a 1500 range instant cast lifetap with only 4 seconds delay and why doesn't that change to a spell with cast time?

Just because it is instant doesn't mean it's overpowered. And if you can't justify it by doing the math, then sorry it just isn't worth talking about adjusting it.

Nothing wrong here, but what does amnesia breaking speed have to do with your points?

I agree that bard-amnesia has downsides and upsides VS the other realms casted versions but you really can't deny that the imbalance in choice of engagement isn't one of the most powerful tools that is currently ingame

Wed 13 Mar 2019 8:17 AM by rubaduck

dansari wrote: ↑
Wed 13 Mar 2019 5:04 AM
rubaduck wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Mar 2019 7:31 PM
[Lots of nonsense, irrelevant points that provide no reason why amnesia should drop speed]

[Triggered]

FTFY

Wed 13 Mar 2019 9:46 AM by thorliryn

Maybe just understand how bard is a problem for flexibiliy team on hibernia first?
Oh and if this is a big problem for you, look around for some sorcerers modifications too?

Wed 13 Mar 2019 2:51 PM by dansari

rubaduck wrote: ↑
Wed 13 Mar 2019 8:17 AM
dansari wrote: ↑
Wed 13 Mar 2019 5:04 AM
rubaduck wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Mar 2019 7:31 PM
[Lots of nonsense, irrelevant points that provide no reason why amnesia should drop speed]

[Triggered]

FTFY

Gets reminded about the actual argument a handful of posts prior

Posts long, rambling, irrelevant points that no one is arguing against in response

Gets triggered by being called out on strawman

> Lul projection

Wed 13 Mar 2019 2:55 PM by dansari

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Wed 13 Mar 2019 7:46 AM
but you really can't deny that the imbalance in choice of engagement isn't one of the most powerful tools that is currently ingame

You answered the question yourself. No one on hib can defend the amnesia range which is why they continue to divert the subject away from the actual argument, even after being repeatedly reminded what people are actually upset about.

Wed 13 Mar 2019 3:30 PM by Roto23

4 times last night in a small grp then in a 7 man tried to run away at speed 6, but insta amnesia said... YOU MUST FIGHT US...
But we didn't want to fight, that is why we tried to run away in the first place.

Thu 14 Mar 2019 9:11 AM by dansari

Roto23 wrote: ↑
Wed 13 Mar 2019 3:30 PM
4 times last night in a small grp then in a 7 man tried to run away at speed 6, but insta amnesia said... YOU MUST FIGHT US...
But we didn't want to fight, that is why we tried to run away in the first place.

At 800 range more than if the roles were reversed, you say? <clutches pearls>

Mon 18 Mar 2019 5:16 PM by phixion

After 13 pages I would be very interested to hear the thoughts of the staff on this issue, can we expect to see a change? Even if it's just removing the speed dropping aspect of Amenesia? It's absolutely ridiculous that an insta spell on a 4 second timer can dictate the battlefield so much.

I see more and more active Hib visible groups and small man every night, that's no coincidence. People either give up and move to something that is less affected (stealthers) or they just make their small man on Hibernia instead.

The more time goes by, the more easy RPs are awarded to Hibs... time to even the battlefield don't you think? You've made far more drastic and controversial changes than this.

Mon 18 Mar 2019 5:39 PM by keen

phixion wrote: ↑
Mon 18 Mar 2019 5:16 PM
I see more and more active Hib visible groups and small man every night, that's no coincidence.

Dont know which server you are playing, but at EU prime Mid is the most populated and the gap is continiously increasing.

Mon 18 Mar 2019 6:13 PM by phixion

keen wrote: ↑
Mon 18 Mar 2019 5:39 PM
phixion wrote: ↑
Mon 18 Mar 2019 5:16 PM
I see more and more active Hib visible groups and small man every night, that's no coincidence.
Dont know which server you are playing, but at EU prime Mid is the most populated and the gap is continiously increasing.

Groups and small man. Not zergs. And it depends on time of day, I often see more Hibs out than Mids.

I think there's plenty of people here who see a problem with it, those who don't are most likely playing Hib and don't have to put up with it so can't see the issue. I'm still yet to hear a valid reason why removing the speed dropping aspect of it isn't an easy fix. If the complaint is "we can't catch you without it", then it's not a valid excuse to keep it.

Tue 19 Mar 2019 4:12 AM by Bumbles

It's very simple, give Sorcs and Healers the same Amnesia that breaks speed on a 5/10 sec cooldown. Same as Bards and everyone will be happy.

Tue 19 Mar 2019 4:38 AM by dansari

Bumbles wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Mar 2019 4:12 AM
It's very simple, give Sorcs and Healers the same Amnesia that breaks speed on a 5/10 sec cooldown. Same as Bards and everyone will be happy.

Please no more buttons I've filled all 3 hotbars with abilities on my healer. Also, this wouldn't actually fix the issue.. it would just mean hibs finally understand what 2300 range feels like when you're roaming. There's a very simple fix that everyone will be happy with: make amnesia not drop speed. It has no balance implications at all, which makes it the easiest and best solution.

Tue 19 Mar 2019 6:54 AM by Sepplord

i agree that removing the speedbreak would make the most sense...

no infight consequences (and nerfing hte range cooldowns etc....is unwanted and might gimp hibs) while fixing the only clear-cut issue: hibs having full decisionmaking regarding engagement

Tue 19 Mar 2019 7:21 AM by Ceen

phixion wrote: ↑
Mon 18 Mar 2019 6:13 PM
keen wrote: ↑
Mon 18 Mar 2019 5:39 PM
phixion wrote: ↑
Mon 18 Mar 2019 5:16 PM
I see more and more active Hib visible groups and small man every night, that's no coincidence.
Dont know which server you are playing, but at EU prime Mid is the most populated and the gap is continiously increasing.

Groups and small man. Not zergs. And it depends on time of day, I often see more Hibs out than Mids.

I think there's plenty of people here who see a problem with it, those who don't are most likely playing Hib and don't have to put up with it so can't see the issue. I'm still yet to hear a valid reason why removing the speed dropping aspect of it isn't an easy fix. If the complaint is "we can't catch you without it", then it's not a valid excuse to keep it.

Obviously you are stuck in your tiny 1vs1 world. It's a key spell for every 8vs8 (speed break and amnesia effect) but since 8vs8 doesn't exist one could deactivate the speed canceling till server pop is at 1000 players and 8vs8 is back :p
The only part for discussion is if 2300 range is needed or if 1850 live value would do the trick as well.

Tue 19 Mar 2019 9:35 AM by Sepplord

Ceen wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Mar 2019 7:21 AM
phixion wrote: ↑
Mon 18 Mar 2019 6:13 PM
keen wrote: ↑
Mon 18 Mar 2019 5:39 PM
Dont know which server you are playing, but at EU prime Mid is the most populated and the gap is continiously increasing.

Groups and small man. Not zergs. And it depends on time of day, I often see more Hibs out than Mids.

I think there's plenty of people here who see a problem with it, those who don't are most likely playing Hib and don't have to put up with it so can't see the issue. I'm still yet to hear a valid reason why removing the speed dropping aspect of it isn't an easy fix. If the complaint is "we can't catch you without it", then it's not a valid excuse to keep it.
Obviously you are stuck in your tiny 1vs1 world. It's a key spell for every 8vs8 (speed break and amnesia effect) but since 8vs8 doesn't exist one could deactivate the speed canceling till server pop is at 1000 players and 8vs8 is back :p
The only part for discussion is if 2300 range is needed or if 1850 live value would do the trick as well.

Amnesia is a key spell in 8vs8 yes...the speedbreak isn't though. That is only a key component in hibernia engaging others. Without it they would have to engage enemies like alb/mid has to

Tue 19 Mar 2019 10:21 AM by Tritri

Uthred stated in an other post that they were content with the current balance. Only planned changes are for Friars iirc.

Tue 19 Mar 2019 11:28 AM by keen

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Mar 2019 9:35 AM
Amnesia is a key spell in 8vs8 yes...the speedbreak isn't though. That is only a key component in hibernia engaging others. Without it they would have to engage enemies like alb/mid has to

Amnesia speed break is very important in 8v8, range should be lowered though 2300 isn't necessary.

Tue 19 Mar 2019 1:35 PM by phixion

As a small man, as soon as you get those blue bubbles over your head you might as well sit down and just die.

A mechanic like that should never exist in a competitive game, skill should be the deciding factor, not a 4 second insta.

Tue 19 Mar 2019 2:59 PM by Durgrim

Based on what you guys wrote here,
Amnesia should, in the sense of the spell itself, kill everything what has been ongoing?
So if it breaks runspeed, does it break the running battery as well?

Tue 19 Mar 2019 3:06 PM by jonl

phixion wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Mar 2019 1:35 PM
As a small man, as soon as you get those blue bubbles over your head you might as well sit down and just die.

A mechanic like that should never exist in a competitive game, skill should be the deciding factor, not a 4 second insta.

what you are saying is you weren't paying attention and got amnesia'd, that's your fault kid

Tue 19 Mar 2019 4:40 PM by dansari

jonl wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Mar 2019 3:06 PM
phixion wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Mar 2019 1:35 PM
As a small man, as soon as you get those blue bubbles over your head you might as well sit down and just die.

A mechanic like that should never exist in a competitive game, skill should be the deciding factor, not a 4 second insta.

what you are saying is you weren't paying attention and got amnesia'd, that's your fault kid

Right because hills don't exist. Give me a break

Tue 19 Mar 2019 4:44 PM by phixion

jonl wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Mar 2019 3:06 PM
phixion wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Mar 2019 1:35 PM
As a small man, as soon as you get those blue bubbles over your head you might as well sit down and just die.

A mechanic like that should never exist in a competitive game, skill should be the deciding factor, not a 4 second insta.

what you are saying is you weren't paying attention and got amnesia'd, that's your fault kid

Yes, because I'm the only person in this thread who thinks amnesia is OP.

Less of the "kid" please, you already got a ban once for insulting players.

Tue 19 Mar 2019 8:42 PM by jonl

dansari wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Mar 2019 4:40 PM
jonl wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Mar 2019 3:06 PM
phixion wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Mar 2019 1:35 PM
As a small man, as soon as you get those blue bubbles over your head you might as well sit down and just die.

A mechanic like that should never exist in a competitive game, skill should be the deciding factor, not a 4 second insta.

what you are saying is you weren't paying attention and got amnesia'd, that's your fault kid

Right because hills don't exist. Give me a break

so now what ur saying is somebody ran a better route than u and killed u

Tue 19 Mar 2019 8:43 PM by jonl

phixion wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Mar 2019 4:44 PM
jonl wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Mar 2019 3:06 PM
phixion wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Mar 2019 1:35 PM
As a small man, as soon as you get those blue bubbles over your head you might as well sit down and just die.

A mechanic like that should never exist in a competitive game, skill should be the deciding factor, not a 4 second insta.

what you are saying is you weren't paying attention and got amnesia'd, that's your fault kid

Yes, because I'm the only person in this thread who thinks amnesia is OP.

Less of the "kid" please, you already got a ban once for insulting players.

just because multiple people have the same opinion it doesn't mean ur right, and in this case ur not kiddo

Tue 19 Mar 2019 8:49 PM by dansari

jonl wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Mar 2019 8:42 PM
dansari wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Mar 2019 4:40 PM
Right because hills don't exist. Give me a break

so now what ur saying is somebody ran a better route than u and killed u

Lol wat. You think hib range of threat being 800 range higher than both other realms only comes into play when both groups are aware of each other and hibs cut the enemy off? Envision two groups meet roaming and the alb group wants to reposition into a better position but can't because lolnesia. Now flip the scenario. Hib group wants to reposition and can because no lolnesia. And the hib group can do that between 1500 and 2300 range. You're talking nonsense, equating it to "git gud," when it is actually imbalanced. No one has reasonably defended why lolnesia should drop speed, and it seems neither can you.

Tue 19 Mar 2019 8:51 PM by defiasbandit

What's there to talk about?

It's a stupid ability.

Tue 19 Mar 2019 8:56 PM by Pops999

phixion wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Mar 2019 4:44 PM
jonl wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Mar 2019 3:06 PM
phixion wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Mar 2019 1:35 PM
As a small man, as soon as you get those blue bubbles over your head you might as well sit down and just die.

A mechanic like that should never exist in a competitive game, skill should be the deciding factor, not a 4 second insta.

what you are saying is you weren't paying attention and got amnesia'd, that's your fault kid

Yes, because I'm the only person in this thread who thinks amnesia is OP.

Less of the "kid" please, you already got a ban once for insulting players.

You need a safe space? At my age you all are kids.

Tue 19 Mar 2019 9:02 PM by phixion

jonl wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Mar 2019 8:43 PM
just because multiple people have the same opinion it doesn't mean ur right, and in this case ur not kiddo

Mind expanding on your opinion then?

Why should Hib be the only realm with the ability to pick and choose fights? We are talking about the speed dropping aspect of amnesia here, at 2300 range.

Tue 19 Mar 2019 10:00 PM by JimD

learn to not run shit routes please

Tue 19 Mar 2019 10:17 PM by Drominchen

dansari wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Mar 2019 8:49 PM
jonl wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Mar 2019 8:42 PM
dansari wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Mar 2019 4:40 PM
Right because hills don't exist. Give me a break

so now what ur saying is somebody ran a better route than u and killed u

Lol wat. You think hib range of threat being 800 range higher than both other realms only comes into play when both groups are aware of each other and hibs cut the enemy off? Envision two groups meet roaming and the alb group wants to reposition into a better position but can't because lolnesia. Now flip the scenario. Hib group wants to reposition and can because no lolnesia. And the hib group can do that between 1500 and 2300 range. You're talking nonsense, equating it to "git gud," when it is actually imbalanced. No one has reasonably defended why lolnesia should drop speed, and it seems neither can you.

Alb (and mid) groups have 2 sec casted amnesia so it is more a 2000 vs 2300 range difference. And of course it is a git gud scenario here. Alb and mid 8mans lived with instant amnesia on hib for 18 years and hibs very rarely dominated. Small men and solos running into 8mans behind every second corner is an old frontier problem (too small zones) and not instant amnesia problem.

Tue 19 Mar 2019 10:29 PM by keen

It's an instant amnesia problem cause you can't avoid being amnesiaed no matter how you run in old fz. It's full of bumps hills and trees.
Reducing the range would be good since it helps ppl being outnumbered to not get zerged and in 8v8 it has no significant impact if its 2.3k or 1.875k range.
On live it was adjusted to 2k for this reason and they have new fz which is much easier to navigate through.

Wed 20 Mar 2019 12:16 AM by phixion

JimD wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Mar 2019 10:00 PM
learn to not run shit routes please

If all 3 realms run "shit routes" hib still have the advantage. Your argument holds no water.

And what even are "shit routes"? Emain is literally a straight line and amnesia still catches you because... because... wait for it... you have to turn corners sometimes.

Wed 20 Mar 2019 4:01 AM by dansari

Pops999 wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Mar 2019 8:56 PM
You need a safe space? At my age you all are kids.

What? This is so irrelevant and screams projection...

JimD wrote: learn to not run shit routes please

It's literally not about routes at all... because terrain exists... and to the better point:

phixion wrote: If all 3 realms run "shit routes" hib still have the advantage. Your argument holds no water.

and finally...

Drominchen wrote: Alb (and mid) groups have 2 sec casted amnesia so it is more a 2000 vs 2300 range difference. And of course it is a git gud scenario here. Alb and mid 8mans lived with instant amnesia on hib for 18 years and hibs very rarely dominated. Small men and solos running into 8mans behind every second corner is an old frontier problem (too small zones) and not instant amnesia problem.

all amnesia is 2300 range, so.. it's not about the cast time, it's about the insta. If Bard had a casted amnesia, this wouldn't be an issue. If the other two realms had insta amnesia, this wouldn't be an issue, but given that those two do not exist, the only solution that has no balance impact is for amnesia to be changed so it does not drop speed. As was stated earlier in this thread (or in another thread, we've been talking about this stupid ability for a while): if a non-hib takes the time to cast amnesia and misses, it means the healer is very far behind the group. Hibs don't have this problem, and only hibs, which makes it a clear, imbalanced, realm issue. OF is not the issue, it's simply a distraction. Again, I don't see anyone proving why amnesia should drop speed. It's clear that this issue is resolved, now it just remains to be seen if the devs will correct it.

Wed 20 Mar 2019 8:21 AM by Sepplord

Drominchen wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Mar 2019 10:17 PM
dansari wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Mar 2019 8:49 PM
jonl wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Mar 2019 8:42 PM
so now what ur saying is somebody ran a better route than u and killed u

Lol wat. You think hib range of threat being 800 range higher than both other realms only comes into play when both groups are aware of each other and hibs cut the enemy off? Envision two groups meet roaming and the alb group wants to reposition into a better position but can't because lolnesia. Now flip the scenario. Hib group wants to reposition and can because no lolnesia. And the hib group can do that between 1500 and 2300 range. You're talking nonsense, equating it to "git gud," when it is actually imbalanced. No one has reasonably defended why lolnesia should drop speed, and it seems neither can you.

Alb (and mid) groups have 2 sec casted amnesia so it is more a 2000 vs 2300 range difference. And of course it is a git gud scenario here. Alb and mid 8mans lived with instant amnesia on hib for 18 years and hibs very rarely dominated. Small men and solos running into 8mans behind every second corner is an old frontier problem (too small zones) and not instant amnesia problem.

Groups also didn't utilize nearsight for years....so does that mean nearsight wasn't superstrong back then?
Groups also didn't regularly cruise with speed6 all the time back then.

Loads of normals of every day RvR on phoenix are completely different to RvR in 1.65

And if healer/sorc stands still to cast amnesia...how can they reposition at the same time?

:

Wed 20 Mar 2019 11:02 AM by chewchew

keen wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Mar 2019 10:29 PM
It's an instant amnesia problem cause you can't avoid being amnesiaed no matter how you run in old fz. It's full of bumps hills and trees.
Reducing the range would be good since it helps ppl being outnumbered to not get zerged and in 8v8 it has no significant impact if its 2.3k or 1.875k range.
On live it was adjusted to 2k for this reason and they have new fz which is much easier to navigate through.

Wed 20 Mar 2019 12:59 PM by Tritri

I'm starting to wonder when this post is going to be closed.

It's sad to see people crying out loud so much to get something that people have dealt with for so many years. I don't remember ever having a thread on hib amnesia.

At least the devs aren't showing any attention to this thread. Nerfing amnesia would lead to an incredible (and very VERY justfied) uproar.

I think the devs have showed that they don't want to directly nerf things. Nobody wants to get nerfed. They tend to buff things up to help poorly designed class

Wed 20 Mar 2019 1:25 PM by kratoxin

Instant amnesia has always been on bard... since the beginning.... Old Frontier has been here... since the beginning... stop crying... #end. #closethread #resolved.

Wed 20 Mar 2019 1:38 PM by phixion

Tritri wrote: ↑
Wed 20 Mar 2019 12:59 PM
Lilina, 50 Druid - 5Lx
Tritri, 50 Eldritch - 4Lx
Lilia, 50 Blademaster - 3Lx
< No Pain No Tartine >

Speaks for itself, don't you think?

The only people who don't think this is ridiculous play Hib. Of course you can't see a problem when you're gaining so much from it.

Wed 20 Mar 2019 1:47 PM by kratoxin

phixion wrote: ↑
Wed 20 Mar 2019 1:38 PM
Tritri wrote: ↑
Wed 20 Mar 2019 12:59 PM
Lilina, 50 Druid - 5Lx
Tritri, 50 Eldritch - 4Lx
Lilia, 50 Blademaster - 3Lx
< No Pain No Tartine >

Speaks for itself, don't you think?

The only people who don't think this is ridiculous play Hib.

you say that yet hib is the under dog on this server, look at mid... lmao so lets nerf hib some more especially an ability that's been here for ages. you think amnesia on a bard that's instant w/ a CD is dumb? look at sorc w/bolt range mez and amnesia, not to mention midgard yea ok healer has amnesia but as a skald charges in to INSTA rupt the bard before the bard can EVEN land a mez etc or the tank trains that are all over the place on midgard rip the bard apart. this thread is null and stupid complaining about something that has been apart of that class since the BEGINNING. might as well remove it if you nerf it, then hib will just die because no one will want to play bard. SIMPLE.

i've played all 3 realms and don't think bards amnesia is ridiculous thanks but no thanks.. there are many ways to counter a bard. lol

everyone complaining about this are just butt hurt because there groups suck donkey. lets complain about some more dumb stuff... mmm lets go with insta stun on a mini, or mmm bd pets too! o ya and lets go with animist pets! o wait... that already happened... LOL! might as well reduce theurg pet spam as well while we're at it! like on live servers.

Wed 20 Mar 2019 1:59 PM by keen

You make it sound like it's a big nerf to hib. It's not, if there ever will be 8v8 on this server you will not lose it cause range of amnesia was slightly adjusted. It's not important with new Ra's. It was with old ra which was the main time with bumpy old fz. In old ras your Inc determined the outcome of the usually 20-30sec fight. In New ras are many ways to recover, especially with buffed heals and fights lasting 3-5 min so the initial Engage is neglectable.

Wed 20 Mar 2019 2:03 PM by phixion

kratoxin wrote: ↑
Wed 20 Mar 2019 1:47 PM
Everyone complaining about this are just butt hurt because there groups suck donkey. lets complain about some more dumb stuff... mmm lets go with insta stun on a mini, or mmm bd pets too! o ya and lets go with animist pets! o wait... that already happened... LOL! might as well reduce theurg pet spam as well while we're at it! like on live servers.

This guy is completely missing the point. Woosh, right over ya head.

Wed 20 Mar 2019 2:03 PM by phixion

keen wrote: ↑
Wed 20 Mar 2019 1:59 PM
You make it sound like it's a big nerf to hib. It's not, if there ever will be 8v8 on this server you will not lose it cause range of amnesia was slightly adjusted. It's not important with new Ra's. It was with old ra which was the main time with bumpy old fz. In old ras your Inc determined the outcome of the usually 20-30sec fight. In New ras are many ways to recover, especially with buffed heals and fights lasting 3-5 min so the initial Engage is neglectable.

They will lose easy/free kills though, that's what this boils down to. No more chasing down that 2-4 man group for the ez rps.

Wed 20 Mar 2019 2:10 PM by kratoxin

phixion wrote: ↑
Wed 20 Mar 2019 2:03 PM
keen wrote: ↑
Wed 20 Mar 2019 1:59 PM
You make it sound like it's a big nerf to hib. It's not, if there ever will be 8v8 on this server you will not lose it cause range of amnesia was slightly adjusted. It's not important with new Ra's. It was with old ra which was the main time with bumpy old fz. In old ras your Inc determined the outcome of the usually 20-30sec fight. In New ras are many ways to recover, especially with buffed heals and fights lasting 3-5 min so the initial Engage is neglectable.

They will lose easy/free kills though, that's what this boils down to. No more chasing down that 2-4 man group for the ez rps.

lol so a skald/mini with insta's etc are free to pass and chase down the 2-4 man groups for the EZ rps? while we sit here and complain about a bard's amnesia.. lol makes complete sense ya? especially with all those so called "CHOKE POINTS?" man those choke points hurt sooo much.. LOL

Wed 20 Mar 2019 2:16 PM by phixion

kratoxin wrote: ↑
Wed 20 Mar 2019 2:10 PM
lol so a skald/mini with insta's etc are free to pass and chase down the 2-4 man groups for the EZ rps? while we sit here and complain about a bard's amnesia.. lol makes complete sense ya? especially with all those so called "CHOKE POINTS?" man those choke points hurt sooo much.. LOL

Do you know anything about this game? Do you even play it?

Look at the range of Skalds/Minstrels insta's, then look at Bards amnesia range.

Get back to me with results.

Wed 20 Mar 2019 2:22 PM by kratoxin

phixion wrote: ↑
Wed 20 Mar 2019 2:16 PM
kratoxin wrote: ↑
Wed 20 Mar 2019 2:10 PM
lol so a skald/mini with insta's etc are free to pass and chase down the 2-4 man groups for the EZ rps? while we sit here and complain about a bard's amnesia.. lol makes complete sense ya? especially with all those so called "CHOKE POINTS?" man those choke points hurt sooo much.. LOL

Do you know anything about this game? Do you even play it?

Look at the range of Skalds/Minstrels insta's, then look at Bards amnesia range.

Get back to me with results.

your information is null, i've played this game since 2001. amnesia has a CD for 1. & 2. albions bolt range casters etc. this thread is null, when you actually have skill and know how to counter a bard get back to me with results. it's not rocket science.

another thing, skald/mini's range on their instas can still stop a small man in there tracks, not hard if angled properly, everyone here is talking about choke points, if you run into a mini/skald in a choke point your done either way.

you're talking about an ability that's been here since 2001 just shut up already Live never even thought about touching it why start complaining about it after 18 years LOL

Wed 20 Mar 2019 2:25 PM by phixion

kratoxin wrote: ↑
Wed 20 Mar 2019 2:22 PM
your information is null, i've played this game since 2001. amnesia has a CD for 1. & 2. albions bolt range casters etc. this thread is null, when you actually have skill and know how to counter a bard get back to me with results. it's not rocket science.

another thing, skald/mini's range on their instas can still stop a small man in there tracks, not hard if angled properly, everyone here is talking about choke points, if you run into a mini/skald in a choke point your done either way.

Absolutely clueless.

Wed 20 Mar 2019 2:29 PM by phixion

kratoxin wrote: ↑
Wed 20 Mar 2019 2:22 PM
you're talking about an ability that's been here since 2001 just shut up already Live never even thought about touching it why start complaining about it after 18 years LOL

But... it did? As many people have said in this thread already, they nerfed it on live.

You are so clueless it's hilarious. I don't often call people on their BS but I highly doubt you played since 2001.

Go back to asking obvious questions about blade nightshades.

Wed 20 Mar 2019 2:31 PM by kratoxin

phixion wrote: ↑
Wed 20 Mar 2019 2:29 PM
kratoxin wrote: ↑
Wed 20 Mar 2019 2:22 PM
you're talking about an ability that's been here since 2001 just shut up already Live never even thought about touching it why start complaining about it after 18 years LOL

But... it did? As many people have said in this thread already, they nerfed it on live.

You are so clueless it's hilarious. I don't often call people on their BS but I highly doubt you played since 2001.

Go back to asking obvious questions about blade nightshades.

you're sitting here insulting people over amnesia and yes i have played since 2001 but obviously if you did you wouldn't be complaining so much now would you?

Wed 20 Mar 2019 2:33 PM by phixion

kratoxin wrote: ↑
Wed 20 Mar 2019 2:31 PM
you're sitting here insulting people over amnesia and yes i have played since 2001 but obviously if you did you wouldn't be complaining so much now would you?

Do you even know the proposed change for amnesia? Have you read ANY of this thread? Are you just jumping in to defend your realm with blinkers on, oblivious to what you're arguing for?

I think so.

I didn't insult anyone, you made yourself look stupid enough.

Wed 20 Mar 2019 2:39 PM by kratoxin

lol

Wed 20 Mar 2019 2:50 PM by phixion

You talk about being insulted, but you've simply been corrected and your stupidity highlighted.

If you want to read insults, refer to this: https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?p=46746#p46746

Wed 20 Mar 2019 3:29 PM by dansari

At least some people put their hib classes in sig so we know their bias when they can't defend why amnesia should drop speed and instead bring up irrelevant points and hilarious points like skald interrupt range. The rest creating strawmans we just have to assume are shills.

Wed 20 Mar 2019 6:10 PM by JimD

phixion wrote: ↑
Wed 20 Mar 2019 12:16 AM
JimD wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Mar 2019 10:00 PM
learn to not run shit routes please

If all 3 realms run "shit routes" hib still have the advantage. Your argument holds no water.

And what even are "shit routes"? Emain is literally a straight line and amnesia still catches you because... because... wait for it... you have to turn corners sometimes.

avoid corners then ???

Wed 20 Mar 2019 6:12 PM by phixion

JimD wrote: ↑
Wed 20 Mar 2019 6:10 PM
avoid corners then ???

How does one avoid corners? I mean running in a straight line will run you in to a zonewall eventually.

The issue here is, OF is a bottleneck, the range of insta amnesia is too long, the clip range is too low. I wouldn't be complaining if I could see Hibs coming way before they could get their insta amnesia off at 2300 range, but they seem to clip in and by the time you realise it's them it's too late. Even if you do manage to turn in time, RIP when you need to run over hills or turn a corner (which is inevitable).

Wed 20 Mar 2019 7:44 PM by JimD

the spell has been in the game since day1, if you cant adapt to playing around it in 2019 something is very wrong with your brain

Wed 20 Mar 2019 8:05 PM by kratoxin

JimD wrote: ↑
Wed 20 Mar 2019 7:44 PM
the spell has been in the game since day1, if you cant adapt to playing around it in 2019 something is very wrong with your brain

he's a stealther trying to do visible things... can't adapt so best thing to do is go back sneak.

Wed 20 Mar 2019 11:16 PM by ughsmash

JimD wrote: ↑
Wed 20 Mar 2019 7:44 PM
the spell has been in the game since day1, if you cant adapt to playing around it in 2019 something is very wrong with your brain

The issue is this game has been out so long a lot of people know how to abuse broken mechanics.

There is not counter play for Instant 2300 range aoe Amnesia. Right when they see you, if you weren't in a perfectly ideal situation you have no choice to fight or not. You have to hope you are equal or greater numbers or you are re-spawning.

Even on speed 6 you cannot outrun Hibs. If I see albs and I don't want to fight, I have a chance to make that choice. If I see Hibs in the same situation, I am just dead.

This is the crux of the point people who are not on Hib are trying to make. You have no agency when deciding to engage a fight or not against Hib. It happens no matter what if the Hib group wants to.

Wed 20 Mar 2019 11:26 PM by dansari

ughsmash wrote: ↑
Wed 20 Mar 2019 11:16 PM
JimD wrote: ↑
Wed 20 Mar 2019 7:44 PM
the spell has been in the game since day1, if you cant adapt to playing around it in 2019 something is very wrong with your brain

The issue is this game has been out so long a lot of people know how to abuse broken mechanics.

There is not counter play for Instant 2300 range aoe Amnesia. Right when they see you, if you weren't in a perfectly ideal situation you have no choice to fight or not. You have to hope you are equal or greater numbers or you are re-spawning.

Even on speed 6 you cannot outrun Hibs. If I see albs and I don't want to fight, I have a chance to make that choice. If I see Hibs in the same situation, I am just dead.

This is the crux of the point people who are not on Hib are trying to make. You have no agency when deciding to engage a fight or not against Hib. It happens no matter what if the Hib group wants to.

Quit it with your logic. Here, have an ad hominem attack instead!

Thu 21 Mar 2019 1:10 AM by Mauriac

JimD wrote: ↑
Wed 20 Mar 2019 7:44 PM
the spell has been in the game since day1, if you cant adapt to playing around it in 2019 something is very wrong with your brain

just pointing this out, if i had made this argument about the envenom nerf (that happened) people would have laughed out loud till they pooped themselves. I don't think the reaction should be any different with regards to the same argument about amnesia.

Thu 21 Mar 2019 10:46 PM by TitaanAxelh

It is an OP ability for the setting.

Hibs chase solo speed 6 classes across zones waiting for the terrain to pitch just right or their target to angle too sharply and land the amnesia.

I do not think it needs to be removed.

I like how it places the caster(bard) and target into 'fading combat' or the 10 seconds after combat you have to wait to be considered out of combat, stealthers are very familiar with this.

I believe the a solution could be to lower the range from 2300 down to an appropriate bolt range of 1850. Remain instant, keep the same effects. Reduce god-range.

Fri 22 Mar 2019 1:36 AM by Mauriac

TitaanAxelh wrote: ↑
Thu 21 Mar 2019 10:46 PM
It is an OP ability for the setting.

Hibs chase solo speed 6 classes across zones waiting for the terrain to pitch just right or their target to angle too sharply and land the amnesia.

I do not think it needs to be removed.

I like how it places the caster(bard) and target into 'fading combat' or the 10 seconds after combat you have to wait to be considered out of combat, stealthers are very familiar with this.

I believe the a solution could be to lower the range from 2300 down to an appropriate bolt range of 1850. Remain instant, keep the same effects. Reduce god-range.

the solution is to go to 1500. Or increase the cooldown to 5 or 6 seconds. or quite frankly both. It's a completely BS ability as is. It guarantees engage on favorable terms with no counter, it allows the obliteration of small mans/solos with no counter or cost, it shuts down all alb CC with no counter unless the sorc understand to burn QC at the start of every fight vs hibs, it shuts down all mid casted CC except instant. the only counter any caster has is MoC which even at it's best is 75% effectiveness for 30 seconds. Seriously? a bard can shut down any caster in the game no problem at the farthest possible range without a cost on a cheese ability and to counter it you need an RA worth several RRs. absolutely ridiculous.

It's a complete BS ability as is because it has a MASSIVE impact and has zero counter, zero cost to use. At least other "instants" have some component of "oh man is this a good time to use this"? amnesia is not like that. you can basically play the game while leaving a small weight on the keyboard to keep amnesia going and you would be fine. just spam in, faceroll your keyboard even, no reason not to with amnesia. it's a mindlessly OP aspect in it's current form.

edit: or a simple fix for a lot of it would be this. let it rupt, let it stay at 4 second reuse and hell, let it stay at 2300 range but not break speed and NOT put you in combat. problem solved.

Fri 22 Mar 2019 4:24 PM by Tritri

Mauriac wrote: ↑
Fri 22 Mar 2019 1:36 AM
the solution is to go to 1500. Or increase the cooldown to 5 or 6 seconds. or quite frankly both. It's a completely BS ability as is. It guarantees engage on favorable terms with no counter, it allows the obliteration of small mans/solos with no counter or cost, it shuts down all alb CC with no counter unless the sorc understand to burn QC at the start of every fight vs hibs, it shuts down all mid casted CC except instant. the only counter any caster has is MoC which even at it's best is 75% effectiveness for 30 seconds. Seriously? a bard can shut down any caster in the game no problem at the farthest possible range without a cost on a cheese ability and to counter it you need an RA worth several RRs. absolutely ridiculous.

It's a complete BS ability as is because it has a MASSIVE impact and has zero counter, zero cost to use. At least other "instants" have some component of "oh man is this a good time to use this"? amnesia is not like that. you can basically play the game while leaving a small weight on the keyboard to keep amnesia going and you would be fine. just spam in, faceroll your keyboard even, no reason not to with amnesia. it's a mindlessly OP aspect in it's current form.

edit: or a simple fix for a lot of it would be this. let it rupt, let it stay at 4 second reuse and hell, let it stay at 2300 range but not break speed and NOT put you in combat. problem solved.

It's really hard to read that much nonsense and idiotic stuff... God it's hard >_<

Go play Bard and come back, after please... This way maybe you'll understand why it's not as strong as you think it is

Btw if you want, I can tell you something to add to your whine about how op this is, QC and MoC don't work against amnesia... that's literally the whole point of this ability

I advise you to pick a bard on some i50 server somewhere, build a group, and try your OP amnesia on a mid group.

Isn't there any good healer to explain to them why you don't use amnesia on front inc ? Because "I'm hib, so my opinion don't matter", because it's obvious that I have always played hib on every server I have ever played in 20 years of DAoC and have absolutely no insight whatsoever on how other realm play

Sat 23 Mar 2019 3:23 AM by Mauriac

Tritri wrote: ↑
Fri 22 Mar 2019 4:24 PM
Mauriac wrote: ↑
Fri 22 Mar 2019 1:36 AM
the solution is to go to 1500. Or increase the cooldown to 5 or 6 seconds. or quite frankly both. It's a completely BS ability as is. It guarantees engage on favorable terms with no counter, it allows the obliteration of small mans/solos with no counter or cost, it shuts down all alb CC with no counter unless the sorc understand to burn QC at the start of every fight vs hibs, it shuts down all mid casted CC except instant. the only counter any caster has is MoC which even at it's best is 75% effectiveness for 30 seconds. Seriously? a bard can shut down any caster in the game no problem at the farthest possible range without a cost on a cheese ability and to counter it you need an RA worth several RRs. absolutely ridiculous.

It's a complete BS ability as is because it has a MASSIVE impact and has zero counter, zero cost to use. At least other "instants" have some component of "oh man is this a good time to use this"? amnesia is not like that. you can basically play the game while leaving a small weight on the keyboard to keep amnesia going and you would be fine. just spam in, faceroll your keyboard even, no reason not to with amnesia. it's a mindlessly OP aspect in it's current form.

edit: or a simple fix for a lot of it would be this. let it rupt, let it stay at 4 second reuse and hell, let it stay at 2300 range but not break speed and NOT put you in combat. problem solved.

It's really hard to read that much nonsense and idiotic stuff... God it's hard >_<

Go play Bard and come back, after please... This way maybe you'll understand why it's not as strong as you think it is

Btw if you want, I can tell you something to add to your whine about how op this is, QC and MoC don't work against amnesia... that's literally the whole point of this ability

I advise you to pick a bard on some i50 server somewhere, build a group, and try your OP amnesia on a mid group.

Isn't there any good healer to explain to them why you don't use amnesia on front inc ? Because "I'm hib, so my opinion don't matter", because it's obvious that I have always played hib on every server I have ever played in 20 years of DAoC and have absolutely no insight whatsoever on how other realm play

its really hard to read anything by someone who is clearly as dense as you. i dont even know why i'm even responding since i'd have a better chance convincing grass to grow faster than make you realize that your precious amnesia is absolute BS.

Seriously, how dense do you have to be to not realize that it's OP? Lets break it down a bit. Your response focuses TOTALLY on 8v8. Ok fine. Despite the fact that it STILL has a ton of a utility in 8v8 as an interrupt i'll grant you, that in the SPECIFIC scenario of two 8mans colliding with each other head on, looking for a fight, it's just another ability.

Let's change it up a bit, suppose an 8man of mids sees a hib group from the side, they move to engage, hibs are not dumb and they're panning, so they simply re position, and get ready for a fight when theyre ready. Switch the roles, and the only thing the mid group can do is take it like champs in the side. Why? because it's a guaranteed engage and since it drops speed, no one can re position.

Lets take it further. Lets say there is a solo, 2man, up to even a 6 man roaming around. If it's spotted by a hib group, thats it, done deal, game over, free rps. rebuff at the pk and try again. amnesia guarantees that the hib group will drop your speed and take your lunch money because it's a free engage and its bs. short of vanishing, you can't escape which is why SOOOOO many people on here think its a bit on the overpowered side. Do hibs have that problem? nope, they just turn around and run away because np.

and as if you didnt need any more proof. roll a mid or an alb. run around in rvr solo or anything short of a premade 8man or a zerg. the FIRST THING that will happen to you if youre spotted by a hib group, 10 times out of 10, is you will get hit with amnesia. The group could be running into you over a hill at point blank range and every bard has their amnesia finger SO trained that its the first thing they hit EVERY time. try it, you will lol after a while in between being amazed that the server is STILL allowing this to go on with how amazingly asinine it is.

Sat 23 Mar 2019 8:08 AM by Drominchen

Mauriac wrote: ↑
Sat 23 Mar 2019 3:23 AM
its really hard to read anything by someone who is clearly as dense as you. i dont even know why i'm even responding since i'd have a better chance convincing grass to grow faster than make you realize that your precious amnesia is absolute BS.

Seriously, how dense do you have to be to not realize that it's OP? Lets break it down a bit. Your response focuses TOTALLY on 8v8. Ok fine. Despite the fact that it STILL has a ton of a utility in 8v8 as an interrupt i'll grant you, that in the SPECIFIC scenario of two 8mans colliding with each other head on, looking for a fight, it's just another ability.

Amnesia does not rupt. Only if it is resisted. And aoe amnesia as lvl 42 spell plus a bit of mastery of focus nearly never gets resisted.

Mauriac wrote: ↑
Sat 23 Mar 2019 3:23 AM
Let's change it up a bit, suppose an 8man of mids sees a hib group from the side, they move to engage, hibs are not dumb and they're panning, so they simply re position, and get ready for a fight when theyre ready. Switch the roles, and the only thing the mid group can do is take it like champs in the side. Why? because it's a guaranteed engage and since it drops speed, no one can re position.

When hib group sees mids from the side chances are very high they get instant cc before they can react. Because of old frontier having nearly never full clipping range without hills etc. Thats also the reason why hibs can always use their OPed amnesia before you can react. In NF terrain is mostly flat and you have much higher chances to see enemies at clipping range and react accordingly.

Also as stated before, mids and albs can cast amnesia (2 sec base cast speed resulting in a 1 sec cast) so it is more 2000 vs 2300 range difference. Yes the healer/sorc is then out of position for inc mezz. As is the bard because you know amnesia results in losing the NEXT speed tick for the caster and the hit enemy. Mids slow down, bard slows down, but both at 2000+ range -> no inc mezz and bard totally out of position behind back line.

Mauriac wrote: ↑
Sat 23 Mar 2019 3:23 AM
Lets take it further. Lets say there is a solo, 2man, up to even a 6 man roaming around. If it's spotted by a hib group, thats it, done deal, game over, free rps. rebuff at the pk and try again. amnesia guarantees that the hib group will drop your speed and take your lunch money because it's a free engage and its bs. short of vanishing, you can't escape which is why SOOOOO many people on here think its a bit on the overpowered side. Do hibs have that problem? nope, they just turn around and run away because np.

and as if you didnt need any more proof. roll a mid or an alb. run around in rvr solo or anything short of a premade 8man or a zerg. the FIRST THING that will happen to you if youre spotted by a hib group, 10 times out of 10, is you will get hit with amnesia. The group could be running into you over a hill at point blank range and every bard has their amnesia finger SO trained that its the first thing they hit EVERY time. try it, you will lol after a while in between being amazed that the server is STILL allowing this to go on with how amazingly asinine it is.

As stated above it is an OF problem. They see you and they are in range for amnesia before you can react because of terrain.
And of course they spam something to break your speed if they know they win (8 vs solo/small men) as do mids (skald snare 1500 range, healer instant stun/mezz 1500 range) and albs (bolt range mezz or amnesia from sorc or ns from cab 2300 range or minst instants 700 range or dd charges 1500 range). Albs have it a bit worse to break speed on incs ok but they have other strengths when the fight has begun.

Sat 23 Mar 2019 11:59 AM by Numatic

Bard amnesia should break the casters speed, not the targets. It's the only amnesia spell in the game with no downside. Its instant, same range, and doesnt put the caster into combat.

If you want to keep amnesia the same for the sake of tactical combat that's fine. And making it break speed for the caster does nothing to this effect. You still have range, and you still have it as an instant. I have seen many hibs pull back from a losing scenario and use Amnesia as an escape method to kill the other grps speed while thiers is still intact. So not only does it let you chase down others for free RPs, it let's you escape without any other realm having that same advantage. It puts 8v8 combat strictly in the territory of Hibernia for engagement and disengagement purposes. Which is wholly unfair to RvR in general. Any bard who comes on here to defend the speed breaking ability on here simply doesnt want to lose their distinct advantage. Face it, noone would.

Hib amnesia is fine the way it is, except it needs to put the bard in combat thus breaking speed, and not break speed of the target. If you want to argue semantics of "it makes you forget so it should break speed", songs are continuously played and arent being casted like a spell. If that were the case, it should break anything on a pulse.

Sat 23 Mar 2019 1:30 PM by phixion

Still no good reason as to why the speed breaking element can't be removed.

Still no good reason that a group of Hibs can pick and choose every fight on the battlefield.

People keep trying to bring it back to 8v8, this is not an 8v8 problem.

3 months down the road and still no decision on this, what's taking so long to take a stance on this? I think the arguments on both sides have been made clear at this point. The longer this drags on the longer Hibs rack up free rps and the rest of us get tired and just give up. I personally know people who have quit the game due to amnesia ruining the game for them, I know of people who have swapped realm to avoid being amnesia'd to death, people who give up playing visibles, people who just quit because stealthers aren't their thing and they can't run small man... this is not something that can be ignored.

I feel the vast majority of players would be happy with a change, the Hibs that do post here can't even give a good reason as to how reducing the range or the speed dropping element would affect them so badly... other than them not being able to dictate the entire battlefield.

Sat 23 Mar 2019 5:57 PM by Tritri

Mauriac wrote: ↑
Sat 23 Mar 2019 3:23 AM
and as if you didnt need any more proof. roll a mid or an alb. run around in rvr solo or anything short of a premade 8man or a zerg. the FIRST THING that will happen to you if youre spotted by a hib group, 10 times out of 10, is you will get hit with amnesia. The group could be running into you over a hill at point blank range and every bard has their amnesia finger SO trained that its the first thing they hit EVERY time. try it, you will lol after a while in between being amazed that the server is STILL allowing this to go on with how amazingly asinine it is.

As stated in the very post you quoted

Been there, done that, didn't bitch about it.

I played mostly mid in all my years of daoc (OF SI, OF ToA, NF)

Bit of albs post lotm but it's not very relevant here

Sat 23 Mar 2019 6:34 PM by AngelRose

Summary of 19 pages..still hasn't changed:

Hibs: Amnesia is FINE
EVERYONE else: It is OP

Wed 27 Mar 2019 1:33 PM by gorakthemighty

hibs defending op skill? colour me surprised

Wed 27 Mar 2019 2:22 PM by Norad

lots of fake news going around here. the correct mechanic for all amnesia's is that it will break speed on next speed tick for the person using amnesia and for the people hit by amnesia; so there's a bit of rng based on whos speed drops first. All cc was like this originally but now it instantly drops for both the caster and the target

Wed 27 Mar 2019 2:25 PM by Ceen

Norad wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Mar 2019 2:22 PM
lots of fake news going around here. the correct mechanic for all amnesia's is that it will break speed on next speed tick for the person using amnesia and for the people hit by amnesia; so there's a bit of rng based on whos speed drops first. All cc was like this originally but now it instantly drops for both the caster and the target

Welcome to 2019 where facts just disturb the mob.
Doesn't matter if its old vs new RA det value, amnesia or anti vaxxing.
One could also simple spam speed so speed is back way faster but that's a pretty advanced tactic!

Wed 27 Mar 2019 8:13 PM by dansari

Ceen wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Mar 2019 2:25 PM
Norad wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Mar 2019 2:22 PM
lots of fake news going around here. the correct mechanic for all amnesia's is that it will break speed on next speed tick for the person using amnesia and for the people hit by amnesia; so there's a bit of rng based on whos speed drops first. All cc was like this originally but now it instantly drops for both the caster and the target
Welcome to 2019 where facts just disturb the mob.
Doesn't matter if its old vs new RA det value, amnesia or anti vaxxing.
One could also simple spam speed so speed is back way faster but that's a pretty advanced tactic!

I don't understand the "gotcha" -- so the hibs are still 2300 range behind you and in 10s you'll be amnesia'd again? Yes, all amnesia drops speed and this wouldn't be an issue if all amnesia was instant.. it's not.. hence the last 19 pages of no one proving why it should continue to drop speed given the disparity between engage/disengage range.....

I'm also pretty sure it doesn't immediately drop speed, like you said the current mechanic is that it drops on the next tick..

But we could just keep incorrectly equating amnesia speed drop with antivaxxing if you think you need that to strengthen your lack of an argument.

Thu 28 Mar 2019 1:00 PM by MiNDmaZing

These RR9 Bards, are running away with their group and spamming amnesia macro so we cannot chase them, the next issue i see with this skill. I thought you need line of sight, or how did they do that with panning camera?

Thu 28 Mar 2019 1:07 PM by keen

MiNDmaZing wrote: ↑
Thu 28 Mar 2019 1:00 PM
These RR9 Bards, are running away with their group and spamming amnesia macro so we cannot chase them, the next issue i see with this skill. I thought you need line of sight, or how did they do that with panning camera?

You can't disengage with amnesia since your bard will lose speed. They also need line of sight.

Thu 28 Mar 2019 1:16 PM by MiNDmaZing

bard is not losing speed

Thu 28 Mar 2019 3:00 PM by keen

MiNDmaZing wrote: ↑
Thu 28 Mar 2019 1:16 PM
bard is not losing speed

He drops speed as well. If not make a short video for evidence and open a bug report.

Thu 28 Mar 2019 3:16 PM by Sepplord

keen wrote: ↑
Thu 28 Mar 2019 3:00 PM
MiNDmaZing wrote: ↑
Thu 28 Mar 2019 1:16 PM
bard is not losing speed
He drops speed as well. If not make a short video for evidence and open a bug report.

(not sure if this is how it works

They maybe could be timing it with their speed ticks...if you lose speed a milisecond before you get your new speed-tick then it won't matter much.
Enemy group that is chasing though, much harder to reapply speed to all of your group at the correct time

Thu 28 Mar 2019 3:20 PM by keen

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Thu 28 Mar 2019 3:16 PM
keen wrote: ↑
Thu 28 Mar 2019 3:00 PM
MiNDmaZing wrote: ↑
Thu 28 Mar 2019 1:16 PM
bard is not losing speed
He drops speed as well. If not make a short video for evidence and open a bug report.

(not sure if this is how it works
They maybe could be timing it with their speed ticks...if you lose speed a milisecond before you get your new speed-tick then it won't matter much.
Enemy group that is chasing though, much harder to reapply speed to all of your group at the correct time

Well it's possible to time it, but you will not be able to do that for running away when you have to do it instantly. If you have time to wait for the right moment you will be out of range from them anyway. In 99% of the cases the bard is losing speed.

Thu 28 Mar 2019 3:27 PM by Sepplord

keen wrote: ↑
Thu 28 Mar 2019 3:20 PM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Thu 28 Mar 2019 3:16 PM
keen wrote: ↑
Thu 28 Mar 2019 3:00 PM
He drops speed as well. If not make a short video for evidence and open a bug report.

(not sure if this is how it works
They maybe could be timing it with their speed ticks...if you lose speed a milisecond before you get your new speed-tick then it won't matter much.
Enemy group that is chasing though, much harder to reapply speed to all of your group at the correct time
Well it's possible to time it, but you will not be able to do that for running away when you have to do it instantly. If you have time to wait for the right moment you will be out of range from them anyway. In 99% of the cases the bard is losing speed.

I disagree on that part (still not sure it works like that though...just under the predicament that it is possible in theory), when two groups chase each other, they often follow each other quite some time before zone-geometrie or pathing mistakes "force" the fleeing enemy into an engagement. In those circumstances there is plenty of time to do that.
If you are that close that they are already catching you, then the speedbreak of amnesia will not help you either way, because something else will hit someone.

And in all other cases, the bard is usually in front of his grp, and the stick is slightly behind. The bard losing speed for a half a second only decreases the length of the group. Yes, distance between enemy group and bard did not increase when both lost speed. But Bards groupmates didn't lose speed and THEY were the ones closer to the enemy than the bard in the scenario that the hib grp wants to run away (but this is getting pretty specific/niche scenarios...the glaring imbalance comes from the forced engagement that only hibernia has. If they only were a bit better at running away i guess the problem would be much smaller)

Thu 28 Mar 2019 5:51 PM by Cearex

Bard only loses speed for half a second? I must learn how to do this. Whenever I amnesia I lose speed for several seconds.

Thu 28 Mar 2019 6:12 PM by phixion

Cearex wrote: ↑
Thu 28 Mar 2019 5:51 PM
Bard only loses speed for half a second? I must learn how to do this. Whenever I amnesia I lose speed for several seconds.

Spam harder.

Doesn't really matter if the Bard loses speed when the rest of his group continue at full speed.

Fri 29 Mar 2019 7:24 AM by Sepplord

Cearex wrote: ↑
Thu 28 Mar 2019 5:51 PM
Bard only loses speed for half a second? I must learn how to do this. Whenever I amnesia I lose speed for several seconds.

context....context might help you understand
just read more than the last comment you replied to, and it should be very clear

Fri 29 Mar 2019 1:39 PM by bigne88

Why all this crying about insta amnesia in 2019?
I guess there are loads of new players here. Or maybe just terrible one.

Fri 29 Mar 2019 9:53 PM by dansari

bigne88 wrote: ↑
Fri 29 Mar 2019 1:39 PM
Why all this crying about insta amnesia in 2019?
I guess there are loads of new players here. Or maybe just terrible one.

Stated by someone who still can't prove why amnesia should break speed. I love coming back to this thread and seeing hib shills. It's the same old non-arguments.

Fri 29 Mar 2019 11:08 PM by SaintRon

dansari wrote: ↑
Fri 29 Mar 2019 9:53 PM
bigne88 wrote: ↑
Fri 29 Mar 2019 1:39 PM
Why all this crying about insta amnesia in 2019?
I guess there are loads of new players here. Or maybe just terrible one.

Stated by someone who still can't prove why amnesia should break speed. I love coming back to this thread and seeing hib shills. It's the same old non-arguments.

As someone else said.... Hib isn't winning as a realm because of this so why are we changing it?

Sat 30 Mar 2019 3:43 AM by bigne88

dansari wrote: ↑
Fri 29 Mar 2019 9:53 PM
bigne88 wrote: ↑
Fri 29 Mar 2019 1:39 PM
Why all this crying about insta amnesia in 2019?
I guess there are loads of new players here. Or maybe just terrible one.

Stated by someone who still can't prove why amnesia should break speed. I love coming back to this thread and seeing hib shills. It's the same old non-arguments.

I mostly played sorcerer and skald this years and imho the only broken spell is celerity

Sat 30 Mar 2019 4:22 PM by dansari

SaintRon wrote: ↑
Fri 29 Mar 2019 11:08 PM
dansari wrote: ↑
Fri 29 Mar 2019 9:53 PM
bigne88 wrote: ↑
Fri 29 Mar 2019 1:39 PM
Why all this crying about insta amnesia in 2019?
I guess there are loads of new players here. Or maybe just terrible one.

Stated by someone who still can't prove why amnesia should break speed. I love coming back to this thread and seeing hib shills. It's the same old non-arguments.

As someone else said.... Hib isn't winning as a realm because of this so why are we changing it?

To finally fix the gross imbalance hib has over engage range. The start of a fight means a lot in this game, and there's really no reason amnesia should drop speed the way it does.. which is the whole point.

Sun 31 Mar 2019 12:25 AM by SaintRon

dansari wrote: ↑
Sat 30 Mar 2019 4:22 PM
SaintRon wrote: ↑
Fri 29 Mar 2019 11:08 PM
dansari wrote: ↑
Fri 29 Mar 2019 9:53 PM
Stated by someone who still can't prove why amnesia should break speed. I love coming back to this thread and seeing hib shills. It's the same old non-arguments.

As someone else said.... Hib isn't winning as a realm because of this so why are we changing it?

To finally fix the gross imbalance hib has over engage range. The start of a fight means a lot in this game, and there's really no reason amnesia should drop speed the way it does.. which is the whole point.

Why can't that just be an advantage Hib has?

Edit - if it were that big of a deal... wouldn't Hib just be steam rolling mid left and right?

Sun 31 Mar 2019 9:49 AM by Numatic

SaintRon wrote: ↑
Sun 31 Mar 2019 12:25 AM
Why can't that just be an advantage Hib has?

Edit - if it were that big of a deal... wouldn't Hib just be steam rolling mid left and right?

They do, just not when it's an even match (although it still gives them the upper hand with engagement). The main problem is that it's literally free rps for any solo/duo/small man they come across. Avoiding a 2300 range insta spell when both parties are running at each other on speed 6 is almost impossible. Clip range isnt much farther than that. Even if you do manage to not get in range initially, it's usually a matter of a few seconds before geometry and latency cause you to fall behind just enough that they can hit you with it. I duo a minstrel with my bro, and a he has a skald on mid. On both characters I can attribute at least 75% of my deaths to hib amnesia. If it wasnt a free rp button, why do they use it all the time to catch people? Any small man or less who gets hit with that by an 8man is literally free rps. That's why most people who get hit with it just sit down because its useless to try. When you have an entire realm that can nullify the main speed class in your realm from such a distance, it just feels cheap.

I mean look at the necklace issue. The hibs were screaming because mids had an insta aoe and was knocking them out of speed. And that was 1500 range. I couldn't believe that the hibs had the audacity to complain about that (beyond the fact that it was infact suppose to be a pbaoe). It was so ironic.

Mon 1 Apr 2019 7:28 PM by wubbl0rz

its the most op spell in game ... dont know why this takes 21 pages to discuss and dont know why this "i win" button is even in the game.

Mon 1 Apr 2019 8:26 PM by FFpheonix

Devs, give Albs and Mids instant 2300 range Amnesia for a week or until Hibs complain to get it nerfed.

Thanks,
Everyone that isn't a Hib

Mon 1 Apr 2019 9:01 PM by moe_Jiller

And give us celerity and bolt mezz range while at it.

Thanks,
Every hib

Tue 2 Apr 2019 8:15 AM by Vindicator

moe_Jiller wrote: ↑
Mon 1 Apr 2019 9:01 PM
And give us celerity and bolt mezz range while at it.

Thanks,
Every hib

Welcome to try them. Then you'd actually understand.

This amnesia issue is funny the devs keep forgetting about it. Trouble with it I suppose. Just make it castable at a very least or reduce the range.

Tue 2 Apr 2019 11:56 AM by dansari

moe_Jiller wrote: ↑
Mon 1 Apr 2019 9:01 PM
And give us celerity and bolt mezz range while at it.

Thanks,
Every hib

Yes because those abilities are able to decide every engagement and most disengagements for you.

Oh they're not? Cute false equivalency.

Tue 2 Apr 2019 12:02 PM by dansari

FFpheonix wrote: ↑
Mon 1 Apr 2019 8:26 PM
or until Hibs complain to get it nerfed.

Day 2. Dear diary, I've stopped playing because the devs haven't fixed broken insta amnesia range and I can't duo with my Bard friend anymore. We get caught by every midgard group now. I can't smallman at all. And even when I'm with 8 we still get caught by alb zergs because of this one ability. This is so pointless and not fun. I'm leaving the game until something can be done about this.

Tue 2 Apr 2019 12:55 PM by gian

22 pages later... and its still not been changed..

sort out this glaring HIB BIAS!!

if all assassins can get vanish and viper, and all hybrids get det no matter realm you play on?

then ? ALL AMNESIA SPELLS SHOULD BE SAME ON ALL 3 REALMS AS WELL!! (same range same insta) whats this BS even still being about after all these pages of complaints...

no it isnt fair it just SUCKS!

thanks for your time

G

Tue 2 Apr 2019 4:00 PM by phixion

Kinda sucks that the only realm with viable small man are Hib.

How many Bard+caster or Bard+BM small man do you see? Everyone who once small manned on Mid have long gone to Hib.

Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:23 AM by AngelRose

Page 22 - summary hasn't changed.

Hibs: Amnesia is FINE and you all are baddies
EVERYONE ELSE: FIX THIS FREAKING ANNOYING CRAP

Why do hibs need this crutch?

Thu 4 Apr 2019 7:01 AM by Keplinger7

I totally agree with bard amnesia being OP. Not to mention they have two and both on short timers so one is always up. Even if its a dramatic range nerf, it needs a nerf. There is literally no winning CC against hib group unless you hide and catch them around a corner, but open field, they win every time.

Mon 8 Apr 2019 3:28 PM by Buhbuh

One of the things I have always said made DAOC rvr great is the fact that smaller groups are able to get away from zergs most of the time. Insta 2300 range amnesia ruins that. Nearly the moment you come into clip range, your speed is killed and you are swarmed.

IIRC, albs CC advantage was the longer range mez since they don't have isnta aoe mez. But the current form of amnesia kinda negates that. Whats up with dat?

Is this is bug? as designed? being looked at?

Mon 8 Apr 2019 6:42 PM by Tad

Skald here, please change this OP Amnesia. its soooo annoying. I can't outran ANY hib group.

Tue 9 Apr 2019 12:18 PM by dansari

It's actually outrageous it hasn't been changed yet. It's very clearly imbalanced. I did manage to outrun a hib group spamming lolnesia on me the other day cuz I ran them through some mobs. It must have felt so embarrassing and odd not to get them 8v1 free rps.

Tue 9 Apr 2019 1:51 PM by dbeattie71

Mids seem to find 1 of the 38 bards on easier than hibs. 😂 and Skalds whining is classic.

Tue 9 Apr 2019 3:41 PM by dansari

dbeattie71 wrote: ↑
Tue 9 Apr 2019 1:51 PM
Mids seem to find 1 of the 38 bards on easier than hibs. 😂 and Skalds whining is classic.

Skalds are whining? I happened to see both albs and mids in this thread making legitimate points about hibnesia. I played a Bard on live and I agree that it should be changed not to break speed. Do you have a relevant statement to make or are you just looking for attention? Don't worry. I'll wait.

Tue 9 Apr 2019 4:42 PM by dbeattie71

dansari wrote: ↑
Tue 9 Apr 2019 3:41 PM
dbeattie71 wrote: ↑
Tue 9 Apr 2019 1:51 PM
Mids seem to find 1 of the 38 bards on easier than hibs. 😂 and Skalds whining is classic.

Skalds are whining? I happened to see both albs and mids in this thread making legitimate points about hibnesia. I played a Bard on live and I agree that it should be changed not to break speed. Do you have a relevant statement to make or are you just looking for attention? Don't worry. I'll wait.

No, go ahead and change it, then there will be 300+ more mids on than hibs prime time.

Tue 9 Apr 2019 5:45 PM by dansari

dbeattie71 wrote: ↑
Tue 9 Apr 2019 4:42 PM
No, go ahead and change it, then there will be 300+ more mids on than hibs prime time.

So you acknowledge that this imbalanced, unfair method of engaging fights causes mid players to leave the game? Interesting

Tue 9 Apr 2019 7:22 PM by speedr

When will hib get celerity and aoe stun?

Tue 9 Apr 2019 7:34 PM by Amp_Phetamine

speedr wrote: ↑
Tue 9 Apr 2019 7:22 PM
When will hib get celerity and aoe stun?

NO

Tue 9 Apr 2019 7:51 PM by jhaerik

speedr wrote: ↑
Tue 9 Apr 2019 7:22 PM
When will hib get celerity and aoe stun?

I'd GLADLY give you AoE stun, Celerity, and bolt range mez.... if they'd make Amnesia non insta and bolt range.

Cause you folks rarely run melee groups, aoe stun just bounces off det 9 and gives slam immunity, and Mez just gives me a couple seconds to grab a beer.

I mean seriously... run into a hib group the other night that was running Bardx2/Druidx2/Warden/Mentyx2/Chanter

Kite kite, heal heal, kite kite, heal heal, kite kite, debuff nuke down one guy, kite kite, heal heal, kite kite, heal heal, debuff nuke down one guy.

Not a damn thing you can do to get close to them due to amnesia.

Tue 9 Apr 2019 8:13 PM by dbeattie71

Why can’t bards wear scale?

Tue 9 Apr 2019 8:30 PM by dbeattie71

dansari wrote: ↑
Tue 9 Apr 2019 5:45 PM
dbeattie71 wrote: ↑
Tue 9 Apr 2019 4:42 PM
No, go ahead and change it, then there will be 300+ more mids on than hibs prime time.

So you acknowledge that this imbalanced, unfair method of engaging fights causes mid players to leave the game? Interesting

I have no idea, I’ve ony grouped with a bard in Galla, any RVR stuff has only been chanter or warden speed. I do know the population difference is real though.

Edit: if it causes mids to leave, I hope they go to hib 😀

Tue 9 Apr 2019 9:48 PM by Dariussdars

speedr wrote: ↑
Tue 9 Apr 2019 7:22 PM
When will hib get celerity and aoe stun?

When will Mids get baseline stun so they can stun/nuke/nuke just like Hibs do? You know, that stun that Hibs always claimed was for self defense?

Wed 10 Apr 2019 12:31 AM by speedr

Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Tue 9 Apr 2019 9:48 PM
speedr wrote: ↑
Tue 9 Apr 2019 7:22 PM
When will hib get celerity and aoe stun?

When will Mids get baseline stun so they can stun/nuke/nuke just like Hibs do? You know, that stun that Hibs always claimed was for self defense?

Wow, now you are getting it. It is almost as if the realms are not the same and people, twice now, have figured out which of these differences brings a realm the largest advantage and that realm has the largest player base yet again!

But continue to complain about amnesia, heh.

Wed 10 Apr 2019 1:37 AM by Dariussdars

speedr wrote: ↑
Wed 10 Apr 2019 12:31 AM
Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Tue 9 Apr 2019 9:48 PM
speedr wrote: ↑
Tue 9 Apr 2019 7:22 PM
When will hib get celerity and aoe stun?

When will Mids get baseline stun so they can stun/nuke/nuke just like Hibs do? You know, that stun that Hibs always claimed was for self defense?

Wow, now you are getting it. It is almost as if the realms are not the same and people, twice now, have figured out which of these differences brings a realm the largest advantage and that realm has the largest player base yet again!

But continue to complain about amnesia, heh.

One realm has an insta ability to knock anyone out of speed. Of course you see nothing wrong with it.

Wed 10 Apr 2019 1:47 AM by dbeattie71

Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Wed 10 Apr 2019 1:37 AM
speedr wrote: ↑
Wed 10 Apr 2019 12:31 AM
Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Tue 9 Apr 2019 9:48 PM
When will Mids get baseline stun so they can stun/nuke/nuke just like Hibs do? You know, that stun that Hibs always claimed was for self defense?

Wow, now you are getting it. It is almost as if the realms are not the same and people, twice now, have figured out which of these differences brings a realm the largest advantage and that realm has the largest player base yet again!

But continue to complain about amnesia, heh.

One realm has an insta ability to knock anyone out of speed. Of course you see nothing wrong with it.

The realm that never has speed, what's the problem?

Wed 10 Apr 2019 2:52 AM by dansari

dbeattie71 wrote: ↑
Wed 10 Apr 2019 1:47 AM
The realm that never has speed, what's the problem?

I... What? That's not how balance works at all...

Tue 16 Apr 2019 9:02 AM by MiNDmaZing

24 pages still no word from a dev. Watch twitch streams of the famous groups and u see every fight start with amnesia from the their bard. Why do hibs say it is useless when they use it everytime?

Tue 16 Apr 2019 10:23 AM by Afuldan

MiNDmaZing wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 9:02 AM
24 pages still no word from a dev. Watch twitch streams of the famous groups and u see every fight start with amnesia from the their bard. Why do hibs say it is useless when they use it everytime?

Easy RP. They know it’s incredibly powerful to be able to knock a group out of speed, and they fear an Adjustment(tm) that would balance Insta Amnesia.

Tue 16 Apr 2019 10:40 AM by Lillebror

Its the singel most annoying spell in whole daoc. (right before any form of disease that last over a minute)
Unfair with a 2300 unit insta aoe speed break.

Tue 16 Apr 2019 10:44 AM by waffel

MiNDmaZing wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 9:02 AM
24 pages still no word from a dev. Watch twitch streams of the famous groups and u see every fight start with amnesia from the their bard. Why do hibs say it is useless when they use it everytime?

24 pages and no word from a dev tells you all you need to know. Devs don’t see any issue (there is none) and have other things so worry about.

Lock the thread and move on.

Tue 16 Apr 2019 12:39 PM by phixion

waffel wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 10:44 AM
MiNDmaZing wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 9:02 AM
24 pages still no word from a dev. Watch twitch streams of the famous groups and u see every fight start with amnesia from the their bard. Why do hibs say it is useless when they use it everytime?

24 pages and no word from a dev tells you all you need to know. Devs don’t see any issue (there is none) and have other things so worry about.

Lock the thread and move on.

Fedorov - Ranger

Tue 16 Apr 2019 2:14 PM by waffel

You'd think the multiple 20+ page tread of SBs asking about blunt would show you devs don't see a problem.

Tue 16 Apr 2019 3:07 PM by Tool73

well the time from first crytread about dark bd damage to fix them was very short, maybe 5 days? so why nerf of instant anmnesia takes so long here....?

Fri 19 Apr 2019 5:40 PM by RiffRaff

I like to come back here every couple days to see nothing happening, feelsgoodman!

Fri 19 Apr 2019 7:42 PM by t4coops

stealther paing people while invisible for like 90% their hp qqing about people getting to easy of kills ? I giggled lol

Sat 20 Apr 2019 5:00 AM by dansari

t4coops wrote: ↑
Fri 19 Apr 2019 7:42 PM
stealther paing people while invisible for like 90% their hp qqing about people getting to easy of kills ? I giggled lol

Flopsyscrub rr5 Animist

Sun 21 Apr 2019 10:45 AM by wubbl0rz

RiffRaff wrote: I like to come back here every couple days to see nothing happening, feelsgoodman!

FeelsBadMan

Mon 22 Apr 2019 7:48 PM by RiffRaff

wubbl0rz wrote: ↑
Sun 21 Apr 2019 10:45 AM
RiffRaff wrote: I like to come back here every couple days to see nothing happening, feelsgoodman!

FeelsBadMan

- mobs above level 50 have a chance to interrupt even if MoC is active

feels worse

Fri 26 Apr 2019 7:15 AM by Warlay

The devs prefer to create useless dungeons no one uses instead to fix a thing which takes 2 seconds to change

same for sb changes... Honestly I'm getting Abit tired

Fri 26 Apr 2019 12:34 PM by Menfany

phixion wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 12:39 PM
waffel wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 10:44 AM
MiNDmaZing wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 9:02 AM
24 pages still no word from a dev. Watch twitch streams of the famous groups and u see every fight start with amnesia from the their bard. Why do hibs say it is useless when they use it everytime?

24 pages and no word from a dev tells you all you need to know. Devs don’t see any issue (there is none) and have other things so worry about.

Lock the thread and move on.

Fedorov - Ranger

It's like any other problem... is it located in Albion or Midgard.. like necro or BD.. insta nerfs or "corrections" incomming..
Is it a Hib problem.. nothing happens.. like the shroom or amnesia problem..

the fact alone that the necro got insta nerfed after the hibs lost a relic to a normal non-bug move from the albs... and after the last nerf the necro is THE ONLY class who need LoS to lay his Maelstrom RA onto a GT.. both.. shade and pet.. while no other class need LoS.. and this "bug" remains since weeks now.. no Dev cares about this.. shows where the love is..

Fri 26 Apr 2019 7:36 PM by RiffRaff

I get it. I really hope something happens sooner than later. I'm not saying one way or the other how the staff is looking at and handling these items, BUT it certainly is frustrating they haven't addressed any of these topics yet. Hoping it turns around because its really starting to build animosity among Mids/Albs and if it continues to go ignored could turn volatile.

Sat 27 Apr 2019 3:59 PM by Lillebror

gian wrote: ↑
Tue 2 Apr 2019 12:55 PM
22 pages later... and its still not been changed..

sort out this glaring HIB BIAS!!

if all assassins can get vanish and viper, and all hybrids get det no matter realm you play on?

then ? ALL AMNESIA SPELLS SHOULD BE SAME ON ALL 3 REALMS AS WELL!! (same range same insta) whats this BS even still being about after all these pages of complaints...

no it isnt fair it just SUCKS!

thanks for your time

G

Omg dont give it to all realms, that would be a increase of retardness, we need less. Make it 2s cast on all classes haveing it. Or remove speed break part of it.

Sat 27 Apr 2019 4:08 PM by bigne88

A lot of new players complaining here.
If this newbies would know how bards, sorcerers and healers works, they all would stfu..insta amnesia is a core ability for the bard class. About breaking speed, well, if mid zerg suffer so mutch for this, I guess it can be removed. I wonder what mid zergers will cry about when tanglers will be removed, amnesia will be nerfed and BM will be deleted; bad players will always complain.

Let's talk about the main problem of this server: what about stop adding? Every realm solo/small/8v8 are adding without any sintom of remorse and this is not funny at all.
How can we nerf the mid zerg in emain?

Sun 28 Apr 2019 10:37 PM by kedelin

bigne88 wrote: ↑
Sat 27 Apr 2019 4:08 PM
A lot of new players complaining here.
If this newbies would know how bards, sorcerers and healers works, they all would stfu..insta amnesia is a core ability for the bard class. About breaking speed, well, if mid zerg suffer so mutch for this, I guess it can be removed. I wonder what mid zergers will cry about when tanglers will be removed, amnesia will be nerfed and BM will be deleted; bad players will always complain.

Let's talk about the main problem of this server: what about stop adding? Every realm solo/small/8v8 are adding without any sintom of remorse and this is not funny at all.
How can we nerf the mid zerg in emain?

Start by deleting the alb zerg in emain... but honestly it's realm v realm.... not instances 8v8 or 1v1... just part of the game...

Mon 6 May 2019 12:02 PM by kratoxin

i now see how broken Hibernia amnesia is.... running a mid 5 man last night running up to AMG Emain just as my group hits the Y.... FAR from AMG mind you.. a hib group comes strolling through AMG and instantly amnesias my group from MILES away like stupid far... fix that crap and reduce it's range!! not to mention mid amnesia doesn't break speed? but hibs does???? huh

Mon 6 May 2019 12:06 PM by Druth

Imo, we need a nerf to the least played realm.
Sounds like the server needs this to happen.

Mon 6 May 2019 12:29 PM by Sepplord

Druth wrote: ↑
Mon 6 May 2019 12:06 PM
Imo, we need a nerf to the least played realm.
Sounds like the server needs this to happen.

If you mean: hibernia should be allowed to keep this cheese/OP-stuff while they are disadvantage because of other reasons...i could get behind that notion, though i'm not fully convinced that's a good way to approach balance

If you mean: hibernia is the least populated realm, that shows that hib amnesia is fine, then i disagree. There are many other factors that lead to hibernia being underpop. That doesn't mean nothing can be too strong there

Mon 6 May 2019 12:41 PM by Druth

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Mon 6 May 2019 12:29 PM
Druth wrote: ↑
Mon 6 May 2019 12:06 PM
Imo, we need a nerf to the least played realm.
Sounds like the server needs this to happen.

If you mean: hibernia should be allowed to keep this cheese/OP-stuff while they are disadvantage because of other reasons...i could get behind that notion, though i'm not fully convinced that's a good way to approach balance

If you mean: hibernia is the least populated realm, that shows that hib amnesia is fine, then i disagree. There are many other factors that lead to hibernia being underpop. That doesn't mean nothing can be too strong there

Agree

I just wish people would focus on making insta amnesia "vanish" (with vanish...

), and give them something better so the result is a boost to Hib.
Like casted amnesia, warden shield spec and castable root on bard.

People seem to have the approach that ability X bothers them, and then just blindly ask for a nerf/removal, instead of thinking about balance first.

Mon 6 May 2019 12:55 PM by Bumbles

Wait, Hib is underpopulated? Wtf. On a daily basis that Plitzpower or what ever his name is lead a hib BG to take every damn keep there is. Sorry not sorry. The speed break portion of Amnesia is broken and bad for the game. Everyone knows this but the Hibs who use it to piss people off.

Mon 6 May 2019 12:59 PM by Druth

Bumbles wrote: ↑
Mon 6 May 2019 12:55 PM
Wait, Hib is underpopulated? Wtf. On a daily basis that Plitzpower or what ever his name is lead a hib BG to take every damn keep there is. Sorry not sorry. The speed break portion of Amnesia is broken and bad for the game. Everyone knows this but the Hibs who use it to piss people off.

I appreciate the effort in proving my point.
A bit over the top, but still appreciated.

Mon 6 May 2019 9:54 PM by Numatic

If they removed speed break it would be perfectly fine. You can still use it tactically in a fight. Theres literally no reason an insta 2300 range aoe spell should break speed. Its #1 use is for chasing down smaller numbers and anyone who denies that has their head in the sand. Sorry hibs but you should earn your RPs like everyone else. Theres no other class/realm that can chase people down in that manner.

Tue 7 May 2019 10:02 AM by bigne88

The bard lose his speed too fyk but i digress ..

Tue 7 May 2019 10:29 AM by Druth

Numatic wrote: ↑
Mon 6 May 2019 9:54 PM
Sorry hibs but you should earn your RPs like everyone else. Theres no other class/realm that can chase people down in that manner.

First part rings hollow when hibs earn less rps than mid/alb currently.
"There is no other" means we have to remove; aoe stun, animist, theurgist, minstrel charm, necro, and prob a few more.
"There is no other" and "It's always been like this" are irrelevant when talking balance.

Insta aoe amnesia is annoying and I agree also dumb, but it's not imbalanced, because balance is a broader perspective than "my smallman got caught by a hib group".

Tue 7 May 2019 11:45 AM by Lillebror

Druth you serius? You find instant Aoe Amnesia fair?

Tue 7 May 2019 12:03 PM by Druth

Lillebror wrote: ↑
Tue 7 May 2019 11:45 AM
Druth you serius? You find instant Aoe Amnesia fair?

"Insta aoe amnesia is annoying and I agree also dumb"

I'm from Denmark, but does that translate to "fair" in english?

If you refer to: "but it's not imbalanced, because balance is a broader perspective than "my smallman got caught by a hib group"."

Balance and fair are not the same, my first part dealt with fair, which I don't think it is, the other is imbalance which it's not.
Balance is Mid/Alb/Hib earning the same rps every week.
Fair is your perception of the situation. Y dies to X and feel it has no chance, that is unfair. But if both X and Y wins 50% of ALL (vs. all letters...) it's fights, then Y and X are balanced.

Hib is in the bottom now, and so Hibernia NEEDS more, NOT less. And if you wanting to nerf amnesia without giving Hib a lot more just shows how egocentric people are.
"I don't care about the game, only my experience matters and I want to win".

Tue 7 May 2019 12:17 PM by kratoxin

Druth wrote: ↑
Tue 7 May 2019 12:03 PM
Lillebror wrote: ↑
Tue 7 May 2019 11:45 AM
Druth you serius? You find instant Aoe Amnesia fair?

"Insta aoe amnesia is annoying and I agree also dumb"

I'm from Denmark, but does that translate to "fair" in english?

If you refer to: "but it's not imbalanced, because balance is a broader perspective than "my smallman got caught by a hib group"."

Balance and fair are not the same, my first part dealt with fair, which I don't think it is, the other is imbalance which it's not.
Balance is Mid/Alb/Hib earning the same rps every week.
Fair is your perception of the situation. Y dies to X and feel it has no chance, that is unfair. But if both X and Y wins 50% of ALL (vs. all letters...) it's fights, then Y and X are balanced.

Hib is in the bottom now, and so Hibernia NEEDS more, NOT less. And if you wanting to nerf amnesia without giving Hib a lot more just shows how egocentric people are.
"I don't care about the game, only my experience matters and I want to win".

Hib has less due to the toxicity of the community and cliq groups all the time. Not because of balance etc. here is your numbers at the moment.
Game Server: Up - Last Update: 1 days 1 hours 12 minutes ago
Albion: 326 Midgard: 285 Hibernia: 227

Tue 7 May 2019 12:31 PM by Druth

kratoxin wrote: ↑
Tue 7 May 2019 12:17 PM
Hib has less due to the toxicity of the community and cliq groups all the time. Not because of balance etc. here is your numbers at the moment.
Game Server: Up - Last Update: 1 days 1 hours 12 minutes ago
Albion: 326 Midgard: 285 Hibernia: 227

For one, population does not equal RvR activity.

Second, I tried Hib as well and they are less inclusive, but that does not mean it's balanced that they earn less rps.
You can argue they deserve it, but are we to believe people who play Hib are just in general bad people?
Might there be circumstances that makes them less inclusive when making RvR groups?
I know it's in the DaoC gene to always assume your opponents are; exploiting, cowards, zergers, has OP classes, are bad people/players, etc... and your realm are great due to having great players, despite having bad classes.

And down the line, no matter how you want to spin it, hibs are less RvR active, will nerfing aoe amnesia make them more rvr active, or less? Usually nerfing means fewer people playing that class/realm.

Tue 7 May 2019 12:43 PM by kratoxin

Druth wrote: ↑
Tue 7 May 2019 12:31 PM
kratoxin wrote: ↑
Tue 7 May 2019 12:17 PM
Hib has less due to the toxicity of the community and cliq groups all the time. Not because of balance etc. here is your numbers at the moment.
Game Server: Up - Last Update: 1 days 1 hours 12 minutes ago
Albion: 326 Midgard: 285 Hibernia: 227

For one, population does not equal RvR activity.

Second, I tried Hib as well and they are less inclusive, but that does not mean it's balanced that they earn less rps.
You can argue they deserve it, but are we to believe people who play Hib are just in general bad people?
Might there be circumstances that makes them less inclusive when making RvR groups?
I know it's in the DaoC gene to always assume your opponents are; exploiting, cowards, zergers, has OP classes, are bad people/players, etc... and your realm are great due to having great players, despite having bad classes.

And down the line, no matter how you want to spin it, hibs are less RvR active, will nerfing aoe amnesia make them more rvr active, or less? Usually nerfing means fewer people playing that class/realm.

Every day hibs are taking almost every keep during EU prime time with over 100 people. During US prime i see 8 man hibs all the time what are you smoking?

Tue 7 May 2019 12:45 PM by Sepplord

13/20 slots in the top20 RP holders on the server are hibs...the ones that are included/organized in hibernia seem to be doing just fine

Did those players stop recently, and are therefor nt dominating the current RP-gain-charts because Hib is underpowered?
Or are they just burnt out / taking a break / or even trying another realm and are now leading the charts for THAT realm, because they always top the charts where they play without any connection to balance at all?

RP-gains without considering playtime (and a myriad of other factors too) says nothing, and with the population as it is individuals influence the averages too much on top of missing metrics.

Tue 7 May 2019 12:46 PM by Lollie

kratoxin wrote: ↑
Tue 7 May 2019 12:43 PM
Druth wrote: ↑
Tue 7 May 2019 12:31 PM
kratoxin wrote: ↑
Tue 7 May 2019 12:17 PM
Hib has less due to the toxicity of the community and cliq groups all the time. Not because of balance etc. here is your numbers at the moment.
Game Server: Up - Last Update: 1 days 1 hours 12 minutes ago
Albion: 326 Midgard: 285 Hibernia: 227

For one, population does not equal RvR activity.

Second, I tried Hib as well and they are less inclusive, but that does not mean it's balanced that they earn less rps.
You can argue they deserve it, but are we to believe people who play Hib are just in general bad people?
Might there be circumstances that makes them less inclusive when making RvR groups?
I know it's in the DaoC gene to always assume your opponents are; exploiting, cowards, zergers, has OP classes, are bad people/players, etc... and your realm are great due to having great players, despite having bad classes.

And down the line, no matter how you want to spin it, hibs are less RvR active, will nerfing aoe amnesia make them more rvr active, or less? Usually nerfing means fewer people playing that class/realm.
Every day hibs are taking almost every keep during EU prime time with over 100 people. During US prime i see 8 man hibs all the time what are you smoking?

Yes and we tend to get stomped by the mid/alb zerg which has more people in it.

Tue 7 May 2019 12:50 PM by Druth

kratoxin wrote: ↑
Tue 7 May 2019 12:43 PM
Every day hibs are taking almost every keep during EU prime time with over 100 people. During US prime i see 8 man hibs all the time what are you smoking?

I smoke numbers, and not feely feelings.
It's great you have the perception that hibs dominate when you are on, but it does not translate to the general weekly numbers.

Lets balance the game around how people feel, and especially how the majority feels. I see a bright future for the server.

Tue 7 May 2019 12:52 PM by Druth

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Tue 7 May 2019 12:45 PM
13/20 slots in the top20 RP holders on the server are hibs...the ones that are included/organized in hibernia seem to be doing just fine

Did those players stop recently, and are therefor nt dominating the current RP-gain-charts because Hib is underpowered?
Or are they just burnt out / taking a break / or even trying another realm and are now leading the charts for THAT realm, because they always top the charts where they play without any connection to balance at all?

RP-gains without considering playtime (and a myriad of other factors too) says nothing, and with the population as it is individuals influence the averages too much on top of missing metrics.

No point looking at the past, the weekly numbers matter, not what was popular from server launch.
But yeah, when BM's reigned supreme, and animists could place shrooms where they wanted, Hibs did really well.

Tue 7 May 2019 12:58 PM by Lillebror

Worst would be giving all 3 realms same.

Make it a 2s cast and keep it as is.

Instant AoE speed break from 2300 range is not a good thing, and not even close to being used as it was intended

Tue 7 May 2019 1:09 PM by Druth

Lillebror wrote: ↑
Tue 7 May 2019 12:58 PM
Instant AoE speed break from 2300 range is not a good thing, and not even close to being used as it was intended

Wholeheartedly agree, but you have to compensate bards for losing it.
Root for example, and evade 4, or advanced evade.

Tue 7 May 2019 1:29 PM by Numatic

Druth wrote: ↑
Tue 7 May 2019 1:09 PM
Lillebror wrote: ↑
Tue 7 May 2019 12:58 PM
Instant AoE speed break from 2300 range is not a good thing, and not even close to being used as it was intended

Wholeheartedly agree, but you have to compensate bards for losing it.
Root for example, and evade 4, or advanced evade.

Bards arent losing anything. They will still have the spell and it will still work as it was intended. Hibs have lower numbers for several reasons. Primarily because they dont want to run out to emain all day which means roaming the 2 other realms which have a fraction of the numbers. That and the general toxicity from PvE grouping because of the meta. It doesnt equate to "they have less so let's let them have it".

Removing speed break will still make the skill perfectly viable for what it was intended. And bards need nothing new because of that.

Tue 7 May 2019 1:32 PM by Druth

Numatic wrote: ↑
Tue 7 May 2019 1:29 PM
Bards arent losing anything. They will still have the spell and it will still work as it was intended. Hibs have lower numbers for several reasons. Primarily because they dont want to run out to emain all day which means roaming the 2 other realms which have a fraction of the numbers. That and the general toxicity from PvE grouping because of the meta. It doesnt equate to "they have less so let's let them have it".

Removing speed break will still make the skill perfectly viable for what it was intended. And bards need nothing new because of that.

I assume you play Hib from your experience there, so guess you know better if bards need anything.

Tue 7 May 2019 3:40 PM by Numatic

Druth wrote: ↑
Tue 7 May 2019 1:32 PM
Numatic wrote: ↑
Tue 7 May 2019 1:29 PM
Bards arent losing anything. They will still have the spell and it will still work as it was intended. Hibs have lower numbers for several reasons. Primarily because they dont want to run out to emain all day which means roaming the 2 other realms which have a fraction of the numbers. That and the general toxicity from PvE grouping because of the meta. It doesnt equate to "they have less so let's let them have it".

Removing speed break will still make the skill perfectly viable for what it was intended. And bards need nothing new because of that.

I assume you play Hib from your experience there, so guess you know better if bards need anything.

I play all three. Bards imo could use a boost in their damage ability. I would love to see battle bards running around. Maybe we would get more solo/duo out of hib then. Since they lack the diversity of a healer with stuns, and even a cleric has more dmg ability than them. What I meant was removing speed break mechanic wouldn't take the spell away so they wouldn't "need" anything to replace it.

Tue 7 May 2019 4:04 PM by Druth

Numatic wrote: ↑
Tue 7 May 2019 3:40 PM
I play all three. Bards imo could use a boost in their damage ability. I would love to see battle bards running around. Maybe we would get more solo/duo out of hib then. Since they lack the diversity of a healer with stuns, and even a cleric has more dmg ability than them. What I meant was removing speed break mechanic wouldn't take the spell away so they wouldn't "need" anything to replace it.

I see removing speed break as a nerf, no matter how unfair it is.
And I don't think Hib needs any nerfs to a class so vital to their groups.

Tue 7 May 2019 4:44 PM by Numatic

Druth wrote: ↑
Tue 7 May 2019 4:04 PM
Numatic wrote: ↑
Tue 7 May 2019 3:40 PM
I play all three. Bards imo could use a boost in their damage ability. I would love to see battle bards running around. Maybe we would get more solo/duo out of hib then. Since they lack the diversity of a healer with stuns, and even a cleric has more dmg ability than them. What I meant was removing speed break mechanic wouldn't take the spell away so they wouldn't "need" anything to replace it.

I see removing speed break as a nerf, no matter how unfair it is.
And I don't think Hib needs any nerfs to a class so vital to their groups.

Can I ask how it's a nerf? Since 90% of its use is to chase down smaller groups which have no chance to fight back. It would be hardly any different if that button was pushed and everyone it hit that was in a smaller group being chased died instantly. If you've been on the receiving end of it as many times as I have while solo/duo roaming, that's what it feels like. The few lucky times I ran into my own realm mates who saved me/us and that's the only instance i can think of where the instant death option would be different. But its definitely a close second.

A nerf would imply reducing the ability in some way to where it no longer functions like it did before. Like reducing the range or adding a cast time. That would be changing the core ability. Removing the speed break mechanic is a balance change, not a nerf. At least in my view it is.

Wed 8 May 2019 3:48 AM by bigne88

Numatic wrote: ↑
Tue 7 May 2019 4:44 PM
Druth wrote: ↑
Tue 7 May 2019 4:04 PM
Numatic wrote: ↑
Tue 7 May 2019 3:40 PM
I play all three. Bards imo could use a boost in their damage ability. I would love to see battle bards running around. Maybe we would get more solo/duo out of hib then. Since they lack the diversity of a healer with stuns, and even a cleric has more dmg ability than them. What I meant was removing speed break mechanic wouldn't take the spell away so they wouldn't "need" anything to replace it.

I see removing speed break as a nerf, no matter how unfair it is.
And I don't think Hib needs any nerfs to a class so vital to their groups.

Can I ask how it's a nerf? Since 90% of its use is to chase down smaller groups which have no chance to fight back. It would be hardly any different if that button was pushed and everyone it hit that was in a smaller group being chased died instantly. If you've been on the receiving end of it as many times as I have while solo/duo roaming, that's what it feels like. The few lucky times I ran into my own realm mates who saved me/us and that's the only instance i can think of where the instant death option would be different. But its definitely a close second.

A nerf would imply reducing the ability in some way to where it no longer functions like it did before. Like reducing the range or adding a cast time. That would be changing the core ability. Removing the speed break mechanic is a balance change, not a nerf. At least in my view it is.

You must be new to the game, correct?

Wed 8 May 2019 7:05 AM by Druth

Numatic wrote: ↑
Tue 7 May 2019 4:44 PM
Druth wrote: ↑
Tue 7 May 2019 4:04 PM
I see removing speed break as a nerf, no matter how unfair it is.
And I don't think Hib needs any nerfs to a class so vital to their groups.

Can I ask how it's a nerf? Since 90% of its use is to chase down smaller groups which have no chance to fight back. It would be hardly any different if that button was pushed and everyone it hit that was in a smaller group being chased died instantly. If you've been on the receiving end of it as many times as I have while solo/duo roaming, that's what it feels like. The few lucky times I ran into my own realm mates who saved me/us and that's the only instance i can think of where the instant death option would be different. But its definitely a close second.

A nerf would imply reducing the ability in some way to where it no longer functions like it did before. Like reducing the range or adding a cast time. That would be changing the core ability. Removing the speed break mechanic is a balance change, not a nerf. At least in my view it is.

Honestly, and my apologies if this is incorrect, but I seriously doubt you played in Hib groups.
And maybe even in 8man groups at all.

Bard sacrificing speed to stop a half of the opposing group before fight starts is massive!
It means:
- melee can't rush casters/bard.
- aug healer can't push with group.
- casters take longer to pre-kite.

I hate to make bold statements, but you do not understand 8man dynamic if you can't see how strong dropping speed on opponent in the early stage of a fight is.

Wed 8 May 2019 7:06 AM by Druth

bigne88 wrote: ↑
Wed 8 May 2019 3:48 AM
You must be new to the game, correct?

Just new to 8v8 I think.

Wed 8 May 2019 10:26 AM by bigne88

Druth wrote: ↑
Wed 8 May 2019 7:05 AM
Numatic wrote: ↑
Tue 7 May 2019 4:44 PM
Druth wrote: ↑
Tue 7 May 2019 4:04 PM
I see removing speed break as a nerf, no matter how unfair it is.
And I don't think Hib needs any nerfs to a class so vital to their groups.

Can I ask how it's a nerf? Since 90% of its use is to chase down smaller groups which have no chance to fight back. It would be hardly any different if that button was pushed and everyone it hit that was in a smaller group being chased died instantly. If you've been on the receiving end of it as many times as I have while solo/duo roaming, that's what it feels like. The few lucky times I ran into my own realm mates who saved me/us and that's the only instance i can think of where the instant death option would be different. But its definitely a close second.

A nerf would imply reducing the ability in some way to where it no longer functions like it did before. Like reducing the range or adding a cast time. That would be changing the core ability. Removing the speed break mechanic is a balance change, not a nerf. At least in my view it is.

Honestly, and my apologies if this is incorrect, but I seriously doubt you played in Hib groups.
And maybe even in 8man groups at all.

Bard sacrificing speed to stop a half of the opposing group before fight starts is massive!
It means:
- melee can't rush casters/bard.
- aug healer can't push with group.
- casters take longer to pre-kite.

I hate to make bold statements, but you do not understand 8man dynamic if you can't see how strong dropping speed on opponent in the early stage of a fight is.

Ok, lets nerf amnesia and tanglers. Than give hib and alb celerity.

Wed 8 May 2019 10:44 AM by Numatic

Druth wrote: ↑
Wed 8 May 2019 7:05 AM
Numatic wrote: ↑
Tue 7 May 2019 4:44 PM
Druth wrote: ↑
Tue 7 May 2019 4:04 PM
I see removing speed break as a nerf, no matter how unfair it is.
And I don't think Hib needs any nerfs to a class so vital to their groups.

Can I ask how it's a nerf? Since 90% of its use is to chase down smaller groups which have no chance to fight back. It would be hardly any different if that button was pushed and everyone it hit that was in a smaller group being chased died instantly. If you've been on the receiving end of it as many times as I have while solo/duo roaming, that's what it feels like. The few lucky times I ran into my own realm mates who saved me/us and that's the only instance i can think of where the instant death option would be different. But its definitely a close second.

A nerf would imply reducing the ability in some way to where it no longer functions like it did before. Like reducing the range or adding a cast time. That would be changing the core ability. Removing the speed break mechanic is a balance change, not a nerf. At least in my view it is.

Honestly, and my apologies if this is incorrect, but I seriously doubt you played in Hib groups.
And maybe even in 8man groups at all.

Bard sacrificing speed to stop a half of the opposing group before fight starts is massive!
It means:
- melee can't rush casters/bard.
- aug healer can't push with group.
- casters take longer to pre-kite.

I hate to make bold statements, but you do not understand 8man dynamic if you can't see how strong dropping speed on opponent in the early stage of a fight is.

8v8 dynamic here is a joke. It's a rabbit and mouse game. That usually ends with both parties running away from each other and going to find soloers. I could say I spent 10 years doing 8v8 on live but it wouldn't matter. People dont believe opinions. What I do know in the instance of 8v8, theres 20 more where it's used to chase down solo duo and smallmans. It's a free farm for hib groups. It's a crappy mechanic no matter how you view it.

Even if speed break is removed, that simply puts hibs on equal footing in an 8v8. It doesnt make you weaker. Isnt that the intention of balance? Oh and btw, you still have the tanglers that no other realm can do either. But that's a different topic.

Wed 8 May 2019 10:52 AM by bigne88

Numatic wrote: ↑
Wed 8 May 2019 10:44 AM
Druth wrote: ↑
Wed 8 May 2019 7:05 AM
Numatic wrote: ↑
Tue 7 May 2019 4:44 PM
Can I ask how it's a nerf? Since 90% of its use is to chase down smaller groups which have no chance to fight back. It would be hardly any different if that button was pushed and everyone it hit that was in a smaller group being chased died instantly. If you've been on the receiving end of it as many times as I have while solo/duo roaming, that's what it feels like. The few lucky times I ran into my own realm mates who saved me/us and that's the only instance i can think of where the instant death option would be different. But its definitely a close second.

A nerf would imply reducing the ability in some way to where it no longer functions like it did before. Like reducing the range or adding a cast time. That would be changing the core ability. Removing the speed break mechanic is a balance change, not a nerf. At least in my view it is.

Honestly, and my apologies if this is incorrect, but I seriously doubt you played in Hib groups.
And maybe even in 8man groups at all.

Bard sacrificing speed to stop a half of the opposing group before fight starts is massive!
It means:
- melee can't rush casters/bard.
- aug healer can't push with group.
- casters take longer to pre-kite.

I hate to make bold statements, but you do not understand 8man dynamic if you can't see how strong dropping speed on opponent in the early stage of a fight is.

8v8 dynamic here is a joke. It's a rabbit and mouse game. That usually ends with both parties running away from each other and going to find soloers. I could say I spent 10 years doing 8v8 on live but it wouldn't matter. People dont believe opinions. What I do know in the instance of 8v8, theres 20 more where it's used to chase down solo duo and smallmans. It's a free farm for hib groups. It's a crappy mechanic no matter how you view it.

Even if speed break is removed, that simply puts hibs on equal footing in an 8v8. It doesnt make you weaker. Isnt that the intention of balance? Oh and btw, you still have the tanglers that no other realm can do either. But that's a different topic.

You have celerity. Id give away any day tangler and speed drop for your celerity. Any day.
Celerity is the most op ability of the game and only one realm can use it. Lets discuss.

Soloers and smallmen being killed by 8v8. Oh gosh, how it is supposed to happen?
And what about soloers and smallmen being camped by zergs of stealthers and mincers?

Wed 8 May 2019 11:02 AM by Druth

Numatic wrote: ↑
Wed 8 May 2019 10:44 AM
Even if speed break is removed, that simply puts hibs on equal footing in an 8v8. It doesnt make you weaker. Isnt that the intention of balance? Oh and btw, you still have the tanglers that no other realm can do either. But that's a different topic.

So you assume Hibs are OP right now?
So I assume the lack of Hib groups is because DaoC players suddenly switched from picking the strongest setup, to the weakest?

Guess my whole approach has been completely wrong, we need to look at which classes/realms is played the most and buff them.

Wed 8 May 2019 11:25 AM by keen

No-one likes to run through two zones to get to the action if you could just play another realm and have it insta. This has nothing to do with hib amnesia being super annoying for all outnumbered players. Range should be reduced to 1875 or at least 2k, nothing will change in competitive rvr with that.

Wed 8 May 2019 11:46 AM by Numatic

Druth wrote: ↑
Wed 8 May 2019 11:02 AM
Numatic wrote: ↑
Wed 8 May 2019 10:44 AM
Even if speed break is removed, that simply puts hibs on equal footing in an 8v8. It doesnt make you weaker. Isnt that the intention of balance? Oh and btw, you still have the tanglers that no other realm can do either. But that's a different topic.

So you assume Hibs are OP right now?
So I assume the lack of Hib groups is because DaoC players suddenly switched from picking the strongest setup, to the weakest?

Guess my whole approach has been completely wrong, we need to look at which classes/realms is played the most and buff them.

Not OP, but very strong when played correctly. Hibs are kiters. They are caster heavy so they use that to their advantage. Mids are melee heavy and albs are a mix (maybe a little more caster than melee).

The problem with hibernia has nothing to do with their 8v8 setup. They require the least amount of classes for the most utility. The problem is with the realm itself and how RvR is currently (having to run for nearly 10mins to get to the action). They also do the least solo/duo/smallman (which is the majority of RvR, not 8v8) because of bard not being able to spec for damage (at least not nearly as strong) vs the other 2 realms speed classes. I believe there are also other personal choice issues with the realm but that's just my opinion.

But suffice it to say I will stop my end of the discussion here because I believe I said my piece and anything further is "I want to change your mind" but it wont happen. Goodluck and I hope the devs one day will actually respond on the issue.

Wed 8 May 2019 12:38 PM by bigne88

To each their own and it's all a matter of counters of the 3 main mezzer classes: albs has quickcast longrange mezz, mids have celerity, bards has long amnesia and short mezz.
Albs has mezz on a potent dps/debuffer, mids has mezz on a potent healer / celerity buff, hibs has mezzes on speed / rupter class with no damage.

All the 3 classes has their differences and big pros and big cons. It all comes down to player's skill and game knowledge.

You dont want your party being speed dropped, quickcasted mezz or tanked train? You can SoS, you can spread and position better.

Wed 8 May 2019 6:19 PM by eclipse2k

Inst-Amnesia on bard is ok. What I don't get is why it's not on like a 30sec reuse timer. It is a ridiculous ability to have always-on, especially at that range.
I agree with the others though that it doesn't really make Hib as a whole OP. But it gives them a tool for farming solos and smallman groups that they probably shouldn't have, and which is bad for the RvR dynamic, IMHO.
And I say that mostly playing 8v8 where the insta-lullaby doesn't really bother my theurgist.

Wed 8 May 2019 7:11 PM by bigne88

Hibs are outnumbered not because of the DL-emain route (it takes 3-4 minutes witch are nice to reload CDs and talk with group mates) but because of the emain zerg heavyness. Bad players or lazy ones prefers to join the big zerg of the 2 other realms and dont put the effort to fight outnumbered. This is the reason why there are so many threads about Hibernia classes being OP: to a bad player a well played class will always result OP.

Amnesia has a double edge, since will make bard drop speed.
Tanglers playstyle is really hard to be well executed.

Wed 8 May 2019 8:42 PM by Dariussdars

bigne88 wrote: ↑
Wed 8 May 2019 7:11 PM
Hibs are outnumbered not because of the DL-emain route (it takes 3-4 minutes witch are nice to reload CDs and talk with group mates) but because of the emain zerg heavyness. Bad players or lazy ones prefers to join the big zerg of the 2 other realms and dont put the effort to fight outnumbered. This is the reason why there are so many threads about Hibernia classes being OP: to a bad player a well played class will always result OP.

Amnesia has a double edge, since will make bard drop speed.
Tanglers playstyle is really hard to be well executed.

Yet you constantly cry about every Mid class being overpowered? Project much? You must be one of those bad players yourself, a well played Mid class will always be overpowered to someone like you.

Wed 8 May 2019 10:28 PM by bigne88

Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Wed 8 May 2019 8:42 PM
bigne88 wrote: ↑
Wed 8 May 2019 7:11 PM
Hibs are outnumbered not because of the DL-emain route (it takes 3-4 minutes witch are nice to reload CDs and talk with group mates) but because of the emain zerg heavyness. Bad players or lazy ones prefers to join the big zerg of the 2 other realms and dont put the effort to fight outnumbered. This is the reason why there are so many threads about Hibernia classes being OP: to a bad player a well played class will always result OP.

Amnesia has a double edge, since will make bard drop speed.
Tanglers playstyle is really hard to be well executed.

Yet you constantly cry about every Mid class being overpowered? Project much? You must be one of those bad players yourself, a well played Mid class will always be overpowered to someone like you.

Never said I'm good player and I never said mid is OP. Mid do zerg a lot in emain, this is a fact

Wed 8 May 2019 10:49 PM by Dariussdars

bigne88 wrote: ↑
Wed 8 May 2019 10:28 PM
Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Wed 8 May 2019 8:42 PM
bigne88 wrote: ↑
Wed 8 May 2019 7:11 PM
Hibs are outnumbered not because of the DL-emain route (it takes 3-4 minutes witch are nice to reload CDs and talk with group mates) but because of the emain zerg heavyness. Bad players or lazy ones prefers to join the big zerg of the 2 other realms and dont put the effort to fight outnumbered. This is the reason why there are so many threads about Hibernia classes being OP: to a bad player a well played class will always result OP.

Amnesia has a double edge, since will make bard drop speed.
Tanglers playstyle is really hard to be well executed.

Yet you constantly cry about every Mid class being overpowered? Project much? You must be one of those bad players yourself, a well played Mid class will always be overpowered to someone like you.

Never said I'm good player and I never said mid is OP. Mid do zerg a lot in emain, this is a fact

Albs zerg a lot, Hibs zerg a lot. Every realm does it. That is also a fact.

Thu 9 May 2019 6:40 AM by Sepplord

eclipse2k wrote: ↑
Wed 8 May 2019 6:19 PM
Inst-Amnesia on bard is ok. What I don't get is why it's not on like a 30sec reuse timer. It is a ridiculous ability to have always-on, especially at that range.
I agree with the others though that it doesn't really make Hib as a whole OP. But it gives them a tool for farming solos and smallman groups that they probably shouldn't have, and which is bad for the RvR dynamic, IMHO.
And I say that mostly playing 8v8 where the insta-lullaby doesn't really bother my theurgist.

uhhh...making it a 30second reuse timer would completely change it's viability/use infight (where it isn't a problem) while keeping it as a tool to catch all enemies you want to fight against (which is the problem)

One of the worst suggestions i have read about hib amnesia so far

Thu 9 May 2019 9:07 AM by eclipse2k

lol you're right.
I completely walk back my previous statement and now agree with you.

Thu 9 May 2019 4:17 PM by bigne88

Ok, lets remove speed drop effect if enemy is not a FG

Thu 9 May 2019 5:18 PM by Druth

bigne88 wrote: ↑
Thu 9 May 2019 4:17 PM
Ok, lets remove speed drop effect if enemy is not a FG

That would be a great solution

Fri 10 May 2019 8:17 AM by olez

omg savages quad hitting, minstrel moving while messing 2 insta dd, alb pets bla bla bla.

nothing new here since 2001

Sun 12 May 2019 8:39 AM by Moid

Another fantastic idea, let’s nerf the most underpopulated realm, by far, some more. Maybe we can convince everyone to stop playing Hib.

Mon 13 May 2019 4:22 AM by Zoric

There is no defense to the most broken spell in game, amnesia, because there is NO tool that serves the same purpose for alb/mid. Hence why ONLY hibs defend it, by saying "it is what it is, deal with it". That's not a defense or a comment worthy of a response. Just a waste of space. Yes it gives Hib 100% advantage over every single group out there and makes it impossible for any group to get away or reposition for an advantage, but more importantly it makes it so stealthers cant stealth which is why small man hib baddies also run around using to get free solo kills they need so bad. Worst spell in game. Solution? Remove or give alb/mid same thing. There is no other option and no hib's opinion about it being fine is noteworthy.

Mon 13 May 2019 5:15 AM by Freedomcall

Zoric wrote: ↑
Mon 13 May 2019 4:22 AM
There is no defense to the most broken spell in game, amnesia, because there is NO tool that serves the same purpose for alb/mid. Hence why ONLY hibs defend it, by saying "it is what it is, deal with it". That's not a defense or a comment worthy of a response. Just a waste of space. Yes it gives Hib 100% advantage over every single group out there and makes it impossible for any group to get away or reposition for an advantage, but more importantly it makes it so stealthers cant stealth which is why small man hib baddies also run around using to get free solo kills they need so bad. Worst spell in game. Solution? Remove or give alb/mid same thing. There is no other option and no hib's opinion about it being fine is noteworthy.

yeah, right.
make every realm exactly same!
give bolt range mezz to bards and healers like sorc!
give insta stun and even insta aoe stun to hib!
why dont you give celerity to hib and alb?
makr a theurgist-like class in mid!
insta root should be also in alb and mid!

Mon 13 May 2019 5:58 AM by Riac

It shouldnt break speed, plain and simple.... since it breaks speed here its used in a fashion that it was never used for before.

Mon 13 May 2019 6:55 AM by Patron

Can u tell me a point in game where bards amne not break speed?
It was like that forever and classes are not mirrored, they are unique. So rant about no other class have this ability is not logical.
Where is the bolt mezz range or celerity for every realm?

Mon 13 May 2019 7:34 AM by bigne88

I guess than give hibs a bard that does damage like a skald with quick cast boltrange mezz. With a pet.

If in 2019 amnesia it's a problem for your party, well, it means you are utterly bad. And remember that Bard drops speed too.
You can spread, you can Sos, you can vanish....you can just have more game awarness.

But sure, if you give bards some damage, mezz bolt range, a pet and celerity, go on. Ah, and decent heals too!

Mon 13 May 2019 11:14 AM by Ceen

bigne88 wrote: ↑
Mon 13 May 2019 7:34 AM
I guess than give hibs a bard that does damage like a skald with quick cast boltrange mezz. With a pet.

If in 2019 amnesia it's a problem for your party, well, it means you are utterly bad. And remember that Bard drops speed too.
You can spread, you can Sos, you can vanish....you can just have more game awarness.

But sure, if you give bards some damage, mezz bolt range, a pet and celerity, go on. Ah, and decent heals too!

There is also zone walls, hills, aggro mobs. Yes people play very badly on this server but even if you pan constantly there will be a hib grp popping up behind that hill or just on clipping range and chase you till the zone border ^^
Luckily the whole hib problem is solved by no port to emain, hope that stays, all they do is disturb the epic alb vs mid fights. Honest fights without tanglers, 4+ supps and insta amnesia

Mon 13 May 2019 12:09 PM by bigne88

Ceen wrote: ↑
Mon 13 May 2019 11:14 AM
bigne88 wrote: ↑
Mon 13 May 2019 7:34 AM
I guess than give hibs a bard that does damage like a skald with quick cast boltrange mezz. With a pet.

If in 2019 amnesia it's a problem for your party, well, it means you are utterly bad. And remember that Bard drops speed too.
You can spread, you can Sos, you can vanish....you can just have more game awarness.

But sure, if you give bards some damage, mezz bolt range, a pet and celerity, go on. Ah, and decent heals too!
There is also zone walls, hills, aggro mobs. Yes people play very badly on this server but even if you pan constantly there will be a hib grp popping up behind that hill or just on clipping range and chase you till the zone border ^^
Luckily the whole hib problem is solved by no port to emain, hope that stays, all they do is disturb the epic alb vs mid fights. Honest fights without tanglers, 4+ supps and insta amnesia

Well, best 8v8 guilds are in hib and the last 2 days half of the competitive 8v8 guilds from alb and mid moved to hib. I guess soon there will be again a reshuffle.

You know what happens when I manage to insta amnesia a good party?
They turn on me, SoS in, and if I dont sos too, they obliterate my face with their bonedancers/celerity tank party or bolt range quickcast aoe mezz/100 pets/insta stun/body debuff.

Bad players will always call enemies OP. The same when noobs get fragged in Counter Strike, they will always call the enemy cheater.

Mon 13 May 2019 12:32 PM by Lillebror

Zoric wrote: ↑
Mon 13 May 2019 4:22 AM
There is no defense to the most broken spell in game, amnesia, because there is NO tool that serves the same purpose for alb/mid. Hence why ONLY hibs defend it, by saying "it is what it is, deal with it". That's not a defense or a comment worthy of a response. Just a waste of space. Yes it gives Hib 100% advantage over every single group out there and makes it impossible for any group to get away or reposition for an advantage, but more importantly it makes it so stealthers cant stealth which is why small man hib baddies also run around using to get free solo kills they need so bad. Worst spell in game. Solution? Remove or give alb/mid same thing. There is no other option and no hib's opinion about it being fine is noteworthy.

It really help for the stealthers if all realms got it....

Mon 13 May 2019 1:13 PM by Ceen

bigne88 wrote: ↑
Mon 13 May 2019 12:09 PM
Ceen wrote: ↑
Mon 13 May 2019 11:14 AM
bigne88 wrote: ↑
Mon 13 May 2019 7:34 AM
I guess than give hibs a bard that does damage like a skald with quick cast boltrange mezz. With a pet.

If in 2019 amnesia it's a problem for your party, well, it means you are utterly bad. And remember that Bard drops speed too.
You can spread, you can Sos, you can vanish....you can just have more game awarness.

But sure, if you give bards some damage, mezz bolt range, a pet and celerity, go on. Ah, and decent heals too!
There is also zone walls, hills, aggro mobs. Yes people play very badly on this server but even if you pan constantly there will be a hib grp popping up behind that hill or just on clipping range and chase you till the zone border ^^
Luckily the whole hib problem is solved by no port to emain, hope that stays, all they do is disturb the epic alb vs mid fights. Honest fights without tanglers, 4+ supps and insta amnesia

Well, best 8v8 guilds are in hib and the last 2 days half of the competitive 8v8 guilds from alb and mid moved to hib. I guess soon there will be again a reshuffle.

You know what happens when I manage to insta amnesia a good party?
They turn on me, SoS in, and if I dont sos too, they obliterate my face with their bonedancers/celerity tank party or bolt range quickcast aoe mezz/100 pets/insta stun/body debuff.

Bad players will always call enemies OP. The same when noobs get fragged in Counter Strike, they will always call the enemy cheater.

Well if you are a good bard you can manage to use amnesia with losing speed for like 1-2 seconds after 2-3 s of full speed or even without losing speed. So you can improve and don't need to be scared to use it

Mon 13 May 2019 3:32 PM by Numatic

Everyone keeps saying "if you get this then we want bolt range mezz, a pet, and nukes etc..". Fine, but then u dont get speed 6, heals, buffs and wear cloth armor. Congrats you're now a sorcerer.

The problem is, everything in this game has a counter or a flaw. Instant spells tend to be less duration, damage or shorter range. Sorc has bolt range mezz because they have no instant mezz. They are also far less hardy than a bard. Healers have 0 damage ability but are given stuns in place of hib casters having baselines. Albs have 2 classes that can stun, one of which is 700 range but instant.

The problem with Hibnesia is that it lacks a downside. It is still the same range as all the others while remaining instant. If it is instant it should have a downside. Or it should have a counter. This game is about give and take, and hibs regularly exploit this ability to run down everyone that comes into view that they can. Just because hib is underpopulated doesnt mean they dont have powerful setups or groups. The fact that only hibs are given the ability to chase people down from such a range means there is an imbalance there.

You may say "on live this wasnt a problem" but if you subjectively view how RvR is here and how it was there, one ability may be subpar on live and completely OP here. It's not always true for what works on live would work here(and iirc they changed it on live didnt they?). And here, Hib amnesia is far too unbalanced.

Mon 13 May 2019 3:38 PM by Drominchen

downside to being instant is the reuse timer. If you ever played vs high rr caster groups that moc as soon as they have cc immunities you will see why the cooldown is a very big downside as amnesia is the only counter to moc.

Mon 13 May 2019 3:49 PM by bigne88

Drominchen wrote: ↑
Mon 13 May 2019 3:38 PM
downside to being instant is the reuse timer. If you ever played vs high rr caster groups that moc as soon as they have cc immunities you will see why the cooldown is a very big downside as amnesia is the only counter to moc.

Thous cavemen that cries about amneisa knows noghting about hig RR caster things and doubtfull they ever used MoC. Thous are just silly archers or soloers that pretend fair PvP while they do nothing else than killing expers.

Yeseterday night, on my lvl45 BM I got ganked 5 times in 1 hour while I was doing exp items in the most hidden places of mount collory by a Necro, a skald and a Sorc. Afrer the sorc ganked me twice I logged my OP hurrrdurrr bard and fragged like rhe noob he was, and yes, I cought him with my Derpdurrrrrr amnesia. I feel no shame.

Tue 28 May 2019 7:47 PM by Siouxsie

If you consider Dark Age of Camelot was created in 18 months, I bet class/realm balance was never in Mythic devs' minds until much later, and they, too, got caught in the trap of pulling one string here, one string there until the fact being is you make changes to one class or one ability and it severely breaks the game or makes it lopsided towards one class or realm.

We're dealing with a 19 year old problem that never got resolved. The fact that there's dozens of pages about this here means people are pretty angry about it, just like they're angry about the farming salvage loot nerf, and the buff pots charges, and all the other unpopular things done here meant to appease others.

I fear the Phoenix devs are in the same situation the Mythic devs were all those years ago, only the Mythic devs had to make money for a company, so they went down the grind/expansions route, and it worked.. for a while.

I don't think we'll ever get that proper nostalgia back for the 1.65 days, because we were all in our own bubbles then and it all wasn't very well documented, but the game was new and we were totally immersed in it.

Thu 30 May 2019 8:22 AM by Milksteak

My amnesia deaths are catching up to my assassin deaths as an alb stealther keep up the good work bards. Remember to amnesia any stealthers in a fight or right after one and you win free rps.

Tue 4 Jun 2019 3:31 AM by sloth

Experienced this for the first time on my Minstrel tonight. I leveled a minstrel specifically so I could pick my battles in RVR by using my superior run speed. I was outside alb gate in Emain, and was instantly given amnesia and chased down and killed by 2 hib casters. Seems ridiculous that the class who's only purpose is to run fast, can instantly forget how to run fast. I spent months leveling to learn how to run fast - so I don't have to find a perfect comp 8 man every time I want to RVR. Alb seems to have a huge disadvantage with how many classes we require to form an effective RVR group, and this insta speed loss seems absurdly cheap.

Tue 4 Jun 2019 5:41 AM by REVOLTE

sloth wrote: ↑
Tue 4 Jun 2019 3:31 AM
Seems ridiculous that the class who's only purpose is to run fast, can instantly forget how to run fast.

i genuinely love this post.

Fri 7 Jun 2019 3:19 PM by snayan17

The problem I see with it is that bards don't lose their speed after casting it

Wed 12 Jun 2019 6:52 AM by MyCatKevin

snayan17 wrote: ↑
Fri 7 Jun 2019 3:19 PM
The problem I see with it is that bards don't lose their speed after casting it

Yes they do. Not immediately, but when the speed song's duration ends.

Tue 18 Jun 2019 9:26 PM by Siouxsie

Make bard amnesia a 2.0 second cast at 1500 range.
Problem solved.

I don't see what the big deal is.

Wed 19 Jun 2019 1:55 AM by Numatic

Siouxsie wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Jun 2019 9:26 PM
Make bard amnesia a 2.0 second cast at 1500 range.
Problem solved.

I don't see what the big deal is.

That would be pretty useless then unless the other realms range was reduced. It simply needs to remove the speed break mechanic and it will still retain its viability. Just wont be able to chase people down anymore. Sure certain situations where it can be useful to speed break another 8 man but let's be real here, 8mans run away from each other more than they fight lol.

Wed 19 Jun 2019 4:13 AM by Warlay

guys... forget it. this post is from january 2019 and now we are in june...

Wed 19 Jun 2019 7:31 AM by Turano

Siouxsie wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Jun 2019 9:26 PM
Make bard amnesia a 2.0 second cast at 1500 range.
Problem solved.

I don't see what the big deal is.

Get rid of speed all together, sprint speed would be maximum and that can not be broken
Problem solved.

Wed 19 Jun 2019 11:51 AM by Lillebror

Siouxsie wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Jun 2019 9:26 PM
Make bard amnesia a 2.0 second cast at 1500 range.
Problem solved.

I don't see what the big deal is.

I feel kind to day, let them keep the 2300 range

Thu 20 Jun 2019 6:53 PM by Freedomcall

Siouxsie wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Jun 2019 9:26 PM
Make bard amnesia a 2.0 second cast at 1500 range.
Problem solved.

I don't see what the big deal is.

I bet this guy doesn't have any idea about healer and sorcerer.

Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:41 AM by Anelyn77

Lillebror wrote: ↑
Wed 19 Jun 2019 11:51 AM
Siouxsie wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Jun 2019 9:26 PM
Make bard amnesia a 2.0 second cast at 1500 range.
Problem solved.

I don't see what the big deal is.

I feel kind to day, let them keep the 2300 range

All amnesia is 2300 range. Insta is good for only 1 thing pretty much, while cast one is spammable and can wreck peeps / stop pushes / force pull back etc. Pac healer has 2300 range cast amnesia, why would they make bard one 1500 range? I'm spamming amnesia like no tomorrow close to 1s cast time with aug d 6, moart 7 and moarcane 7 on my aug sham, it's so funny it's not even funny (get it?). Plus you can moc1 on top of it and have a field day (because you don't care about the 25% effect, do you?).

This bard vs healer / sorc is getting older than already is, Pac healer is the supreme utility / support in game, period, anyone denying this is desillusional. And yes I main a pac healer, played sorc to 9L8 on live and bard is really not that hot compared to either.

/Bnotashamed Pac healer + Aicha Ment = Love

Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:55 AM by Druth

Anelyn77 wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:41 AM
I'm spamming amnesia like no tomorrow close to 1s cast time with aug d 6, moart 7 and moarcane 7 on my aug sham, it's so funny it's not even funny (get it?).

I assume you mean healer, but better correct it if you want people to pick up the "Expert vibe" from your post.

Fri 21 Jun 2019 10:06 AM by Anelyn77

Druth wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:55 AM
Anelyn77 wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:41 AM
I'm spamming amnesia like no tomorrow close to 1s cast time with aug d 6, moart 7 and moarcane 7 on my aug sham, it's so funny it's not even funny (get it?).

I assume you mean healer, but better correct it if you want people to pick up the "Expert vibe" from your post.

No I meant sham, Moarcane 7 on aug sham for the mega buffed specs. And I don't want you or anyone to pick any "expert vibes" from my post

If someone experience / playstyle / group comp is not the norm / meta, doesn't auto invalidate it or nullify it by any means.

Cheers <3

Fri 21 Jun 2019 10:07 AM by lurker

Druth wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:55 AM
Anelyn77 wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:41 AM
I'm spamming amnesia like no tomorrow close to 1s cast time with aug d 6, moart 7 and moarcane 7 on my aug sham, it's so funny it's not even funny (get it?).

I assume you mean healer, but better correct it if you want people to pick up the "Expert vibe" from your post.

I assume he means he has a shaman in his group who is moarcane 7 giving his pac healer capped DeX buffs.

Fri 21 Jun 2019 10:16 AM by Druth

lurker wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 10:07 AM
Druth wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:55 AM
Anelyn77 wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:41 AM
I'm spamming amnesia like no tomorrow close to 1s cast time with aug d 6, moart 7 and moarcane 7 on my aug sham, it's so funny it's not even funny (get it?).

I assume you mean healer, but better correct it if you want people to pick up the "Expert vibe" from your post.

I assume he means he has a shaman in his group who is moarcane 7 giving his pac healer capped DeX buffs.

Okay, now I get it.

Fri 21 Jun 2019 10:25 AM by Druth

Anelyn77 wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 10:06 AM
Druth wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:55 AM
Anelyn77 wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 9:41 AM
I'm spamming amnesia like no tomorrow close to 1s cast time with aug d 6, moart 7 and moarcane 7 on my aug sham, it's so funny it's not even funny (get it?).

I assume you mean healer, but better correct it if you want people to pick up the "Expert vibe" from your post.

No I meant sham, Moarcane 7 on aug sham for the mega buffed specs. And I don't want you or anyone to pick any "expert vibes" from my post If someone experience / playstyle / group comp is not the norm / meta, doesn't auto invalidate it or nullify it by any means.

Cheers <3

So is your opinion that giving Bards the same castable amnesia would make bards stronger?
To me personally it seems that:
Castable amnesia strongest in group v group fights.
Insta amnesia strongest when catching groups/people that try to escape.

My main annoyance with insta amnesia, is that it breaks and removes Hastener speed.
If they gave us hastener tokens that problem would be solved for me.
When solo I run slower than bards anyway, so not gonna get away, but sometimes I will pass by a hib vs mid fight, and the bard will (understandably) amnesia me because he doesn't know if I'll add or not. Which means the rest of my journey is made on speed Gimp.

Fri 21 Jun 2019 10:36 AM by Anelyn77

Druth mate, I get you. But any small / fg that runs on speed 5 or 6 can catch realm speed / caster speed, and run circles around em, they don't need amnesia or any instant CC to do that.

Cast amnesia is strong in any situation because you pretty much can stop enemy support / healers / caster doing anything (they are actually casting, but they forget and the spell effect never lands, or they resist and are rupted, win-win scenario) from outside their range (except NS), cancel charm pulses (minstrel and menta) and be a huge pain in the back, controlling the fight without actually CCing anything. Sure they can spread out, then you just switch from your AoE amnesia to single one which costs like 0 power on a yellow pom + seren 1 pac healer, same range, and just click them in order and cast with same speed from same range.

And all of this just gives your group a huge advantage as they can still position, cast their own spells, rupt / assist / melee train w/e you're doing. NF sieges? Best times of my life, up on battlements stopping elds from NSing, animists from dropping shrooms, bards from mezzing etc.

That's my personal take on amnesia (and pac healers being the best support in game due to their kit), and personal experience from playing my paci solo, small men, FG, and in BG RvR keep take / defense.

/Bnotashamed pac healer + Aicha mentalist = LOVE

Fri 21 Jun 2019 10:38 AM by keen

This topic isnt about casted amnesia

Fri 21 Jun 2019 10:53 AM by Druth

keen wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 10:38 AM
This topic isnt about casted amnesia

I agree

But IF they were to remove/change insta amnesia (which I've become a lot less convinced is a good idea) they need to give them castable.

Fri 21 Jun 2019 11:10 AM by Sepplord

i had some bards explain to me that the amnesia being instant is important because they have lots of stuff to do and need the instas on the side, some would trade for a castable version but some think it would hurt more than help

the main problem with instant amnesia is the imbalance it creates between the roaming abilities of the realms. 1realm has full control about when and who to fight (if they chose so and don't take risks with mapgeometry that would make ambushes possible) while midgard and Alb do not have this luxury

DAoC is all about picking and chosing the right engagements, and hibernia does not only have an advantage in this regard, they are overpowered

Fri 21 Jun 2019 11:33 AM by dreginkt

Yep Hib full groups will chase me when solo across multiple zones waiting for me to make a mistake so I fall into amnesia range. Once ran from Emain to Collory. Pkay even at their RR once chased me for like 12 minutes while I was solo. The purpose of the tool is to interrupt spell casting but they don't use it for it 99% the time, they use it to farm easy rps which defeats the purpose of the tool in the first place. I intentionally avoid areas where I have a higher chance of finding hibs than albs because of how impossible it is to dodge the engagement when solo or a small man. If they want casted then give it to them and reduce it to 1500 just like everyone else. I don't buy the they need it instant because they have other stuff to do, they have nowhere near the level of responsibility the pac healer has.

Fri 21 Jun 2019 11:51 AM by Anelyn77

dreginkt wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 11:33 AM
Yep Hib full groups will chase me when solo across multiple zones waiting for me to make a mistake so I fall into amnesia range. Once ran from Emain to Collory. Pkay even at their RR once chased me for like 12 minutes while I was solo. The purpose of the tool is to interrupt spell casting but they don't use it for it 99% the time, they use it to farm easy rps which defeats the purpose of the tool in the first place. I intentionally avoid areas where I have a higher chance of finding hibs than albs because of how impossible it is to dodge the engagement when solo or a small man. If they want casted then give it to them and reduce it to 1500 just like everyone else. I don't buy the they need it instant because they have other stuff to do, they have nowhere near the level of responsibility the pac healer has.

Just to be clear on this, ALL REALMS have same 2300 range on amnesia, irrelevant of it being instant or cast, same 2300 range for NS for all 3 realms, irrelevant of it's value (green, blue, yellow or red).

Giving hibs 1500 amnesia it's like giving mids or albs 10s root single / aoe compared to 1:20m as it is now, as far as usefulness goes. 2300 is the base range for cast / instant Amensia and NS, it's always been, will always be, deal with it guys really.

/Bnotashamed pac healer + Aicha mentalist = <3

Fri 21 Jun 2019 12:25 PM by keen

Anelyn77 wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 11:51 AM
Just to be clear on this, ALL REALMS have same 2300 range on amnesia, irrelevant of it being instant or cast, same 2300 range for NS for all 3 realms, irrelevant of it's value (green, blue, yellow or red).
it's always been, will always be

It is a huge difference if you have to stop and start casting a spell or use it instantly to catch people.
On live amnesia range got adjusted.

Fri 21 Jun 2019 12:46 PM by gian

[/quote]
It is a huge difference if you have to stop and start casting a spell or use it instantly to catch people.
On live amnesia range got adjusted.
[/quote]

THIS!!! ^

(and *still* its being conviniently ignored after 34 pages....)

Fri 21 Jun 2019 12:52 PM by phixion

It's been 6 months now guys, I don't think the staff are interested

Fri 21 Jun 2019 1:02 PM by Anelyn77

So once you caught said people, who gets the upper hand, 10s amnesia or spam amnesia? In sieges who has the upper hand, 10s amnesia or spam amnesia?

Dunno, outside of speed 6 solo / small men complaining that hibs caught them I really don't see the problem - from my POV.

Apples vs Oranges pmuch

/Bnotashamed pac healer + Aicha mentalist = <3

Fri 21 Jun 2019 1:20 PM by Sepplord

Anelyn77 wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 1:02 PM
So once you caught said people, who gets the upper hand, 10s amnesia or spam amnesia? In sieges who has the upper hand, 10s amnesia or spam amnesia?

Dunno, outside of speed 6 solo / small men complaining that hibs caught them I really don't see the problem - from my POV.

Apples vs Oranges pmuch

/Bnotashamed pac healer + Aicha mentalist = <3

It surprises me that you seem to think that the only benefit is "catching" the enemy, especially from a healer POV who can't ever win mezz VS an equally skilled bard unless he uses his own instants.

After being caught there are several situations where instant is better (which is the problem, otherwise we could just give bards cast-amnesia and everyone be happy).

During endurance activation instant-amnesia can be used, cast amnesia not
During Mezzing instant-amnesia can be used, cast amnesia not
During healing instant-amnesia can be used, cast amnesia not
During rebuffing of a killed teammember instant-amnesia can be used, cast amnesia not
While interrupting/snaring someone with melee instant-amnesia can be used, cast amnesia not

It's simply not as clear cut as saying cast-spam is flat better than isntant-cast

"only fucks over smallmen and speed-soloers" (and every 8man that doesn't want to take every fight against every opponent...good for you that your group is good enough to want that)
That's a pretty huge "only", might not concern you personally, but i am sure with a tiny bit of empathy you can see why it could be problematic

Fri 21 Jun 2019 1:34 PM by Anelyn77

If it was such a big deal / game breaking almost, why are the devs not giving it the attention it needs?

I was only speaking from my PoV, personally I don't find it such a big deal. Am not defending it nor attacking it. If my opinion is different to yours or others, does that mean I have no empathy?

Let me up you one on that, whenever I go solo with my pac healer, I never get any empathy from any vis, be it solo, duo, small men, FG or zerg, despite I turn and run the opposite way on contact - so my intentions are clearly not to engage, am not amnesia to drop their speed or mezz or whatever. Yet - no exception, am being chased and killed. I even had a hilarious inf vs ns stop fighting to jump me both despite I was just passing by, without interfering (names irrelevant really). So how about a little empathy here?

I never claimed that my PoV is the absolute truth, I am fine with hibs amnesia and yes I play a pac healer on mid, and been very active in RvR, in all forms and shapes.

Cheers, have a great day <3

/Bnotashamed paci healer + Aicha mentalist = <3

Fri 21 Jun 2019 2:52 PM by Druth

Anelyn77 wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 1:34 PM
If it was such a big deal / game breaking almost, why are the devs not giving it the attention it needs?

I was only speaking from my PoV, personally I don't find it such a big deal. Am not defending it nor attacking it. If my opinion is different to yours or others, does that mean I have no empathy?

Let me up you one on that, whenever I go solo with my pac healer, I never get any empathy from any vis, be it solo, duo, small men, FG or zerg, despite I turn and run the opposite way on contact - so my intentions are clearly not to engage, am not amnesia to drop their speed or mezz or whatever. Yet - no exception, am being chased and killed. I even had a hilarious inf vs ns stop fighting to jump me both despite I was just passing by, without interfering (names irrelevant really). So how about a little empathy here?

I never claimed that my PoV is the absolute truth, I am fine with hibs amnesia and yes I play a pac healer on mid, and been very active in RvR, in all forms and shapes.

Cheers, have a great day <3

/Bnotashamed paci healer + Aicha mentalist = <3

I've been away from doing "pro 8manning" (my own words, not making fun of anyone), to really know if the balance 8v8 is good as it is.
But in my world it weights heavily when people defend abilities of their opposing realms.

And from what I see/hear, it seems that the 8v8 balance is quite solid right now.

Fri 21 Jun 2019 4:16 PM by Lillebror

Buff the bard then, give him 2s casteble Amnesia, so he can spam and use it for what its planned to do.... interrupt. Amnesia is worse than getting vanished on my a big mile

Mon 24 Jun 2019 5:38 PM by phixion

Anelyn77 wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 1:02 PM
So once you caught said people, who gets the upper hand, 10s amnesia or spam amnesia? In sieges who has the upper hand, 10s amnesia or spam amnesia?

The group with the most players

Mon 24 Jun 2019 6:48 PM by Anelyn77

phixion wrote: ↑
Mon 24 Jun 2019 5:38 PM
Anelyn77 wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 1:02 PM
So once you caught said people, who gets the upper hand, 10s amnesia or spam amnesia? In sieges who has the upper hand, 10s amnesia or spam amnesia?

The group with the most players

And least afks hahahhahhaha! <3

/Bnotashamed | Aicha

Thu 27 Jun 2019 1:24 PM by gian

BUMP!

"The North Remembers!"

Sun 7 Jul 2019 7:14 PM by keen

Maybe some small men love now that nf is out?
Instant amnesia speed break is killing small men rvr since the start of the server unfortunately.

Sun 30 Jan 2022 2:23 PM by phixion

kratoxin wrote: ↑
Wed 20 Mar 2019 1:47 PM
you say that yet hib is the under dog on this server, look at mid... lmao so lets nerf hib some more especially an ability that's been here for ages. you think amnesia on a bard that's instant w/ a CD is dumb? look at sorc w/bolt range mez and amnesia, not to mention midgard yea ok healer has amnesia but as a skald charges in to INSTA rupt the bard before the bard can EVEN land a mez etc or the tank trains that are all over the place on midgard rip the bard apart. this thread is null and stupid complaining about something that has been apart of that class since the BEGINNING. might as well remove it if you nerf it, then hib will just die because no one will want to play bard. SIMPLE.

i've played all 3 realms and don't think bards amnesia is ridiculous thanks but no thanks.. there are many ways to counter a bard. lol

everyone complaining about this are just butt hurt because there groups suck donkey. lets complain about some more dumb stuff... mmm lets go with insta stun on a mini, or mmm bd pets too! o ya and lets go with animist pets! o wait... that already happened... LOL! might as well reduce theurg pet spam as well while we're at it! like on live servers.

kratoxin wrote: ↑
Wed 20 Mar 2019 1:25 PM
Instant amnesia has always been on bard... since the beginning.... Old Frontier has been here... since the beginning... stop crying... #end. #closethread #resolved.

kratoxin wrote: ↑
Mon 6 May 2019 12:02 PM
i now see how broken Hibernia amnesia is.... running a mid 5 man last night running up to AMG Emain just as my group hits the Y.... FAR from AMG mind you.. a hib group comes strolling through AMG and instantly amnesias my group from MILES away like stupid far... fix that crap and reduce it's range!! not to mention mid amnesia doesn't break speed? but hibs does???? huh

Coming back 3 years later to say... Holy shit this is gold.