Difference between a Template and a ROG suit.

I'm trying to understand the difference between a decently mixed set of ROG's and a fully crafted suit with a template. The only thing I really know at this point is that I should expect the ROG's to be max 99% quality, where as crafted can be 100%. Furthermore, it's probably not realistic to expect to get all my resists maxed and stats maxed properly with just ROG's. Is that all there is to it?

I've heard something about buying crafted weapons and then getting them enchanted. Does that make the weapon far more powerful than a ROG would be, or is that somewhat equivalent?

On the armor side, it seems if I want to really have all the right procs. I need crafted and SC'd armor. With ROG's I'd just have to live with whatever proc is on the armor that has the best mix of stats for what I'm building.

Aside from all that, ROG's have + to all melee or + to all magic and stuff like that, whereas templates will have the specific skills I want. I'm currently only worried about a Warden and a Theurgist, so the generics wouldn't be a big deal.

In the end though, I guess the real question is: Are there aspects of a crafted/templated suit that far exceed what a ROG suit can achieve, by design, or is it just a matter of it being harder to find the right combinations to make it all work?

Mon 18 Mar 2019 8:11 PM by Halma

I think you're mixing up some stuff here. It's not either or, it will always be a combination of both (dropped items and crafted).
First of all there are ROGs, items put together by the random object generator. This can be every armor, weapon or jewelry type.
Then you have the good drops with fixed stats from the dungeons which you can buy also from the feather merchants.
And thirdly, crafted equipment which can be enchanted as needed. You can only craft armor and weapons though which means that every template is being built up from jewelry first because it's not customizable.
The higher utility jewelry you have (ROG or fixed drops) the easier it will be (but of course costlier as well) to Max all stats and what not in your template. And yes, it is pretty easy on this server except for some special classes (assassin mostly) to max everything.

Here is a starting guide for spellcrafting, I recommend you should get to know some basic stuff first.

https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=5617

Mon 18 Mar 2019 8:54 PM by moe_Jiller

You nailed it already, it is way harder to cap out everything that should be by RoGs. And the procs on armor are not only chosable with crafted gear, they are stronger too (at least for Epic procs its quite a lot better value-wise).

AF 102 with 35% Bonus is "equal" regardless if its crafted or ROG.

Weapon-wise, there is no lifeleech proc (soloing/more healing) for crafted weapons, but there are ROG weapons with that. Problem here is to find the right speed stats on ROG weapons (slower = more dmg per swing). ROG weapons usually get used in "weaponless" templates - so templates that are maxing everything (every stat/skill/resist) out even without any weapon/shield equipped to have room for the wanted proc on a potentially dropped ROG.

So, yes, crafted armors can exceed ROG armor and ROG weapons can exceed crafted weapons - in theory. In practice, its just a lot easier to go with crafted armor and weapons.

I ve outlined the easy and "classic" way of putting together a Template here:

https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=5898

Tue 19 Mar 2019 2:06 PM by PingGuy

Halma wrote: ↑
Mon 18 Mar 2019 8:11 PM
I think you're mixing up some stuff here. It's not either or, it will always be a combination of both (dropped items and crafted).
First of all there are ROGs, items put together by the random object generator. This can be every armor, weapon or jewelry type.
Then you have the good drops with fixed stats from the dungeons which you can buy also from the feather merchants.
And thirdly, crafted equipment which can be enchanted as needed. You can only craft armor and weapons though which means that every template is being built up from jewelry first because it's not customizable.
The higher utility jewelry you have (ROG or fixed drops) the easier it will be (but of course costlier as well) to Max all stats and what not in your template. And yes, it is pretty easy on this server except for some special classes (assassin mostly) to max everything.

Here is a starting guide for spellcrafting, I recommend you should get to know some basic stuff first.

https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=5617

No, I'm not confused, but I understand why it would seem that way. I'm sure most people just build a template, buy the stuff, pay the SC'er and call it a day. So what I'm asking would seem confusing. But I really am asking what the discernible difference is between a mixture of all ROG items and a properly built crafted+SC'ed suit.

I do appreciate the link though, as I may get into crafting and make my own stuff. But I'll probably just get by on ROG's for a while, until I'm sure I want to put in that level of effort. Thanks

Tue 19 Mar 2019 2:11 PM by PingGuy

moe_Jiller wrote: ↑
Mon 18 Mar 2019 8:54 PM
You nailed it already, it is way harder to cap out everything that should be by RoGs. And the procs on armor are not only chosable with crafted gear, they are stronger too (at least for Epic procs its quite a lot better value-wise).

AF 102 with 35% Bonus is "equal" regardless if its crafted or ROG.

Weapon-wise, there is no lifeleech proc (soloing/more healing) for crafted weapons, but there are ROG weapons with that. Problem here is to find the right speed stats on ROG weapons (slower = more dmg per swing). ROG weapons usually get used in "weaponless" templates - so templates that are maxing everything (every stat/skill/resist) out even without any weapon/shield equipped to have room for the wanted proc on a potentially dropped ROG.

So, yes, crafted armors can exceed ROG armor and ROG weapons can exceed crafted weapons - in theory. In practice, its just a lot easier to go with crafted armor and weapons.

I ve outlined the easy and "classic" way of putting together a Template here:

https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=5898

That's what I was looking for, thanks. So I can enchant ROG's just like I can enchant crafted items? That's probably the main thing I would have missed.

I'm going to focus on the epic quests first and see where I end up at that point. Hopefully I'll have a good 16.5DPS weapon with lifeleech by then. Can decide the rest once I see how it goes.

Tue 19 Mar 2019 2:20 PM by phixion

You use spellcrafted armour to fill in the stats you miss from RoGs.

You would have to get extremely lucky to find a set of RoG armour that exactly caps all missing stats.

Then there’s reactive procs for your armour, like mending and ablative, which you won’t get on RoG pieces.

Tue 19 Mar 2019 3:36 PM by PingGuy

phixion wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Mar 2019 2:20 PM
You use spellcrafted armour to fill in the stats you miss from RoGs.

You would have to get extremely lucky to find a set of RoG armour that exactly caps all missing stats.

Then there’s reactive procs for your armour, like mending and ablative, which you won’t get on RoG pieces.

Yeah, I don't expect the ROG suit to be perfect or to cap everything exactly. Just trying to get an idea of the range of differences between them. Ablative procs are definitely one thing that would be missing. ROG's can have heal procs though.

Tue 19 Mar 2019 4:24 PM by Halma

PingGuy wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Mar 2019 2:11 PM
That's what I was looking for, thanks. So I can enchant ROG's just like I can enchant crafted items? That's probably the main thing I would have missed.

No, ROGs can't be enchanted or be changed in any way, you have to take them as they are. You are only able to spellcraft player crafted items. So as phixion said, you have to be extremely lucky to cap all stats (stats 75 points, resists 26%, 200 HP, 26 power, +11 skills). Ususally you will have some stats "overcapped" (means: the points above a certain points are just wasted).
If you really want a lifeleech weapon you can search for it on the market or hope for a lucky drop (maybe there are lifeleech weapons on the feather merchants as well, I don't know that). Watch for the quality though, a weapon below 99% is always a bad choice. And if you're lucky, the stats complement to your other ROG stuff as well. A lot of "ifs"

Epic armor is usually a bad choice as well because they have no reprocs (and procs can't be added, because it's not a player crafted item). But it's about 2plat you get from salvaging the armor so I'd recommend doing the quest nontheless.

ROGs can have heal procs that is correct, but the value is as far as I can rememeber way below the player crafted ablative procs.

Tue 19 Mar 2019 5:55 PM by PingGuy

So what does Enchanting do to the items then? I thought that was where the 35% bonus came from that was mentioned above. Do ROG's already have that? Or does Enchanting do something different? I thought Spellcrafting added the procs and such. These are the areas I am confused about, and I guess you were right originally that I am confused... just about different stuff than I thought.

Tue 19 Mar 2019 6:27 PM by Halma

Enchant - bonus (up to 35%), nothing else. ROGs and fixed drops are already enchanted. Player crafted stuff has to be enchanted by an NPC or it will have 0% bonus which is bad when fighting enemies who have armor with bonus.

I thought you would think of spellcrafting when using the term enchant, that's my bad.

The bonus is only relevant for weapons and armor though as these are the items which interact which the enemy by hitting/being hit.

Spellcrafting adds the stats, resists etc and can only be applied on player crafted items.
Alchemy for procs/reprocs on top.

Wed 20 Mar 2019 8:38 AM by Sepplord

there is no real answer to the question, because a ROG-sets effectiveness could be 100% compared to a crafted template, or it could be 0%. Or anything in between.
It is purely luck based and once you start paying attention to the stats of ROGs and searching for specifics you are also investing into your set...in that case time

time is money though, so depending on how much effort you spend on finding "decent" ROGs that fit into your template, you could just farm a few plat and get something crafted for the same timeinvestment.

It also highly depends on your class, most casters are pretty easy to cap stats with, that makes it easier to reach an almost capped template with just ROGs...but cloth is also really cheap and you only need 99% crafted in most cases.