OF vs. NF - size matters? - Phoenix Freeshard

As the server still has pretty huge numbers of players at prime - i guess even more than live had in its golden age - i would like to have the discussion again if maybe NF would be more suitable for us now.
Imho it´s too zergy and the task system with domination teleporting as it is makes it even more zergy. Since you think of changing the task system/porting, we have to wait how it turns out after changes are done - but still i would like you to consider if maybe Nf would be the better choice for Phoenix.
No clue how easy the Devs could implement that here (no coder) but would like to hear ppls view and ofc what the devs think about it.
Still enjoying Phoenix very much. Devs did a great job, though there is always room for improvement ;-)
Cheers guys and see ya out in the frontiers!

Wed 6 Mar 2019 8:51 AM by Krakkon

I think NF would be the perfect solution and the fun would increase a lot!

Let's make a poll!

Wed 6 Mar 2019 8:59 AM by Jaxx

Hello,

I can only speak for myself, but me and a lot of people I've met are here because its OF, we are stop playing DAoC because NF, can you hear it?

Yes the task is a problem because its only one map, now is fix, your task is valid on the 3 maps. <3

Wed 6 Mar 2019 11:41 AM by Laviski

OF is better

Wed 6 Mar 2019 12:00 PM by averok

NF is the way to do a better rvr in open spaces.

I really hate (as healer) pennine / hw OF ..too many hills give you crap to get a right position.
And i don't like too odin's gate and jamtland cause too many trees and mobs around.

So put NF, with boats and keeps/towers , will be split ppl much better and give us space to do also 8v8 and not only zerg.

Wed 6 Mar 2019 2:11 PM by Tritri

NF is by far superior to OF maps, both in terme of mecanics (port, keep design, siege, etc...) and map design. The only real downside was the dumb idea to give everyone 100% movement speed in water and having the fight underwater being ridiculously bugged. I think a NF version with OF water would be absolutely perfect

BUT, they can't just "put NF", it would require a lot of work, years even... by the time they finished rebuilding NF, the population would have dropped significantly

Plus some people are here for the old maps' nostalgia, they don't really care which is better

Wed 6 Mar 2019 2:26 PM by ibeturgood

Jaxx wrote: ↑
Wed 6 Mar 2019 8:59 AM
Hello,

I can only speak for myself, but me and a lot of people I've met are here because its OF, we are stop playing DAoC because NF, can you hear it?

Yes the task is a problem because its only one map, now is fix, your task is valid on the 3 maps. <3

this is a fallacy, people will always go for the easy rp's which just so happens to be forming a blob

its been said before, nf is way better for this many people. of isn't even good for a small pop, its just people's nostalgia and if they spend time playing more than an hour a day they can see why its trash

Wed 6 Mar 2019 2:28 PM by ibeturgood

Tritri wrote: ↑
Wed 6 Mar 2019 2:11 PM
NF is by far superior to OF maps, both in terme of mecanics (port, keep design, siege, etc...) and map design. The only real downside was the dumb idea to give everyone 100% movement speed in water and having the fight underwater being ridiculously bugged. I think a NF version with OF water would be absolutely perfect

BUT, they can't just "put NF", it would require a lot of work, years even... by the time they finished rebuilding NF, the population would have dropped significantly

Plus some people are here for the old maps' nostalgia, they don't really care which is better

why would it require anything other than opening the zone? thats just nonsense. nf already exists in the games files.

Wed 6 Mar 2019 2:35 PM by Jaxx

ibeturgood wrote: ↑
Wed 6 Mar 2019 2:26 PM
Jaxx wrote: ↑
Wed 6 Mar 2019 8:59 AM
Hello,

I can only speak for myself, but me and a lot of people I've met are here because its OF, we are stop playing DAoC because NF, can you hear it?

Yes the task is a problem because its only one map, now is fix, your task is valid on the 3 maps. <3

this is a fallacy, people will always go for the easy rp's which just so happens to be forming a blob

its been said before, nf is way better for this many people. of isn't even good for a small pop, its just people's nostalgia and if they spend time playing more than an hour a day they can see why its trash

No, NF is just 3 maps CTRL+C / CTRL+V with recolor...... no soul and easy TP fastfood PvP..... i have stop DAoC because im not having fun with NF.
And I'm not the only one.
Just look population DAoC decrease after NF... is fast !

Afterwards, I understand that the WoW generation prefers NF, it's also fast food PvP.

You need NF? You have the official server, only Phoenix proposed OF and very thanks for that ! <3

ps : I see that after so many years nothing has changed on the forums, we see especially the eternal dissatisfied. xD

Wed 6 Mar 2019 2:38 PM by FFpheonix

Pennine Mountains is just a bad zone which no one wants to play in.

Wed 6 Mar 2019 2:48 PM by Tritri

Jaxx wrote: ↑
Wed 6 Mar 2019 2:35 PM
Just look population DAoC decrease after NF... is fast !

Afterwards, I understand that the WoW generation prefers NF, it's also fast food PvP.

You do realize WoW was launched few months after NF, right ?

No correlation at all I'd wager...

Some people don't like NF, it's fine, but it's hard arguing that it was not a huge improvement of everything DAoC RvR was, everything was just better

And no, they don't just have to "open" the zone, they have to rebuild everything. Well not the ground itself, that should be in the game files, but every fort and rvr mechanics must be rebuilt.
Uthred had shared a screenshot from NF zone on Phoenix : no castle at all

Wed 6 Mar 2019 3:00 PM by Jaxx

Tritri wrote: ↑
Wed 6 Mar 2019 2:48 PM
You do realize WoW was launched few months after NF, right ?

No correlation at all I'd wager...

WoW or not, if people dont love NF is just logic leaving DAoC.

Wed 6 Mar 2019 3:38 PM by Tritri

Yeah but you are saying that people left DAoC because of NF, which is not necessarily true

People that didn't like NF left because of NF, but a lot of people surely left because WoW was coming and very promising

Wed 6 Mar 2019 5:30 PM by BaldEagle

OF is actually larger than NF, but NF has more zones.

There was a reason it was created to replace OF. Not sure how the Dev team missed that one. They voted on it early in beta and it was 50/50 and decided to go with OF. At this point it won't change, but if this server was to die, it will be because of that decision.

Thu 7 Mar 2019 10:00 AM by Luluko

wouldnt mind nf if they do something about the boating sitting arround and waiting isnt how I wanna spend my time after getting zerged by fgs all the time

Thu 7 Mar 2019 6:22 PM by ibeturgood

Jaxx wrote: ↑
Wed 6 Mar 2019 2:35 PM
ibeturgood wrote: ↑
Wed 6 Mar 2019 2:26 PM
Jaxx wrote: ↑
Wed 6 Mar 2019 8:59 AM
Hello,

I can only speak for myself, but me and a lot of people I've met are here because its OF, we are stop playing DAoC because NF, can you hear it?

Yes the task is a problem because its only one map, now is fix, your task is valid on the 3 maps. <3

this is a fallacy, people will always go for the easy rp's which just so happens to be forming a blob

its been said before, nf is way better for this many people. of isn't even good for a small pop, its just people's nostalgia and if they spend time playing more than an hour a day they can see why its trash
No, NF is just 3 maps CTRL+C / CTRL+V with recolor...... no soul and easy TP fastfood PvP..... i have stop DAoC because im not having fun with NF.
And I'm not the only one.
Just look population DAoC decrease after NF... is fast !

Afterwards, I understand that the WoW generation prefers NF, it's also fast food PvP.

You need NF? You have the official server, only Phoenix proposed OF and very thanks for that ! <3

ps : I see that after so many years nothing has changed on the forums, we see especially the eternal dissatisfied. xD

People are never happy with change. WoW came out after NF first of all and second you don't need a 4k pop server. Its absolute shit with this many people in old frontier when there is no bar to entry. Atleast Uthgarb had a grueling leveling process that not only killed the beginning 5k population but delayed the mongoloid zerg. I realize the staff gets hard at the thought of this many people playing but quantity is not quality. If you lost some people that solo or play >8 hours a week over new frontiers, nothing of value is lost.

Thu 7 Mar 2019 9:03 PM by Leandrys

BaldEagle wrote: OF is actually larger than NF, but NF has more zones.

There was a reason it was created to replace OF. Not sure how the Dev team missed that one. They voted on it early in beta and it was 50/50 and decided to go with OF. At this point it won't change, but if this server was to die, it will be because of that decision.

Didn't know people voted for that choice, such a mistake, nostalgia is a shameless liar, and you realize it at minute 2, when you suddenly remember about MGs, the first good old memory than suddenly turns to ****, the first of many other ones.

NF isn't perfect by far, but OF, oh god, there are 10+ major reasons why we got rid of that crap on live long ago. And that choice will badly hurt Phoenix on the medium run.

Fri 8 Mar 2019 2:10 AM by MacPrior

New Frontiers?
With those stupid idea of underwater fights?
With buggy ships and farmers on the end positions?
With bigger maps, but with plenty of grounds without any access to them, with plenty of total empty regions in each realm even in times of high population?
No, please, no!

The only good thing, which come positiv with NF was a Keep Re design, which made the keep fight much more interesting. Now Keeps and the Keep Fights are boring. Hib keeps with just run in circle, keep walls where the defenders in small model can see defending the walls just a part of the sky, Only 1 position to shout inside the keep yard from the tower. If those could be changed . would be very nice, but no NF, please.

Fri 8 Mar 2019 8:36 AM by Mac

I enjoyed NF a lot back in 2003 /2004 but then I left for WoW after a guild vote. I think NF was much more fun than OF.

Fri 8 Mar 2019 9:11 AM by Chuba

If you want NF just go play on live...

Sat 9 Mar 2019 2:40 AM by TungstenGage

Mythic released NF for a reason...….because it was better! NF had better keep sieges, tower sieges, bridge combat, open combat, boats, relic gates, and siege engines.....shall I go on?

PS: The keeps, towers and bridges are far superior in NF ….. Wouldn't even call these huts in OF a proper keep!

Sun 10 Mar 2019 12:34 AM by erydz

I vote for NF let's go

Sun 10 Mar 2019 9:29 AM by Rewin

NF: better keeps with different tactics, keep upgrades are more than only gate and guards, additional tower fights and more claimable possiblities for other guilds, no milegate zerging, portsystem between keeps, water fights, bridge/bridgetower fights .... i really don´t see what makes OF better.

Wed 13 Mar 2019 1:51 AM by Frieza

i think its time to do NF tbh. Itll give the community a buzz and overall i think NF lasts better than OF for long term players i.e. theres just more to do/ see.

I think if youre going to make the change though, you need to make keep takes more important, thats my only bit of advice i.e. more feathers

Wed 13 Mar 2019 4:05 AM by Jaxx

Honestly if you want your NF just go to live.

Lots of people go here because its OF, if tomorrow Pheonix is NF we lost 60% of population...
This kind of very important decision is made before the server opens and is not to be changed like that.

People who are happy with OF don't need to say it, they are playing, the only problem right now is the zero interest of the relics.

Personally the day that NF is here I would be very disgusted to have wasted so much time....

Good day.

Wed 13 Mar 2019 7:05 AM by Sepplord

NF would be a HUGE change, and imo the server doesn't need to go through HUGE changes every other week...

For the people that play 5hours every day it might be getting stale already, but to the masses that only play every other day or on the weekends? We don't need the game to be different every time we log on.

I am also against NF because i play (partially) for the nostalgia of OF...but above reason is for me a stronger point against kneejerking NF into the game at this point

Wed 13 Mar 2019 8:30 AM by AmshagarBrisval

What killed DAOC is not NF is TOA or rather it is the shift that was created between the distance and the CaC.
NF is much more technical the old ZF has always been the country of the bus, because the infrastructure of the card grows there.
Certainly jaustement would be necessary, no underwater passage.
In my opinion it would be beneficial, but since we can never please everyone good luck

Wed 13 Mar 2019 8:53 AM by rubaduck

The problem with NF, and the problem with OF is size to population ratio.

So NF without a doubt works very well when the population is at the level we're at right now. OF on the other hand does not. But it would be naive to think that the population of Phoenix doesn't dwindle, and if OF is changed to NF, and the population drops by 50% of what it has been the last weeks, we get the same dead zone problem that we had on Live.

If this somehow can be circumvented, then I'm all for NF. If not, keep it as OF.

Thu 14 Mar 2019 2:39 AM by Frieza

Jaxx wrote: ↑
Wed 13 Mar 2019 4:05 AM
Honestly if you want your NF just go to live.

Lots of people go here because its OF, if tomorrow Pheonix is NF we lost 60% of population...
This kind of very important decision is made before the server opens and is not to be changed like that.

People who are happy with OF don't need to say it, they are playing, the only problem right now is the zero interest of the relics.

Personally the day that NF is here I would be very disgusted to have wasted so much time....

Good day.

by the same logic by keeping OF we're saying see ya to 40% of the players tomorrow....i mean using your own logic.....which is obviously extremely flawed.

Look back through this post, theres over 60% that are in favour of NF as well, so your math is either completely wrong, or youve made it up, orrrr you speak for people who cant speak for themselves for some reason.....which we know is impossible

Ill be playing either way, OF/ NF, whatever the outcome the game is still daoc to me, the reason i liked NF more was because of the keeps, and it made keeps feel more important (which is actually a bit of a problem at the moment for those who like keep sieges). Also size to population ratio i feel will work a lot better in NF and open up small man possibilities. Ifs funny too because a lot of people have complained about choke points, but then vote against NF......not sure if they know NF?

Thu 14 Mar 2019 6:33 AM by Misterteatime

Thank you all for your thoughts/opinions so far. What would the NF-naysayers think about OF with NF keeps (if that is feasible)? I would like to see some incentives for smallman grps to get more involved into keeptaking (towertaking then).

Plus the design of the NF keeps is way better imho and with the towers we would have some new objectives to play around with. Taking and defending keeps & towers was always fun in NF, no?

If the code allows for mix & match, why not pick the best from both frontierzone-types and merge them into a glorious ONF? :-)

Thu 14 Mar 2019 6:40 AM by Sepplord

Misterteatime wrote: ↑
Thu 14 Mar 2019 6:33 AM
Thank you all for your thoughts/opinions so far. What would the NF-naysayers think about OF with NF keeps (if that is feasible)? I would like to see some incentives for smallman grps to get more involved into keeptaking (towertaking then).

Plus the design of the NF keeps is way better imho and with the towers we would have some new objectives to play around with. Taking and defending keeps & towers was always fun in NF, no?

If the code allows for mix & match, why not pick the best from both frontierzone-types and merge them into a glorious ONF? :-)

The NF Keeps are much bigger than OF keeps...so i don't think it is feasible to cram them into OF...and you would need towers too, which also need a place nearby. Not enough room for that stuff in OF

Thu 14 Mar 2019 6:51 AM by Lasastard

Pretty sure that OF keeps are actually part of the map mesh; in NF they are their own dynamic object (which is why they can change during upgrading). So it would simply not be possible to change them in OF, even if the staff wanted to. Also, what Sepplord said.

Thu 14 Mar 2019 5:28 PM by cere2

IMO, NF is just better for all styles of play.
There were dead zones once pop dwindled but, that was mostly due to there being no incentive to defend certain keeps/towers, and when pop was low you almost allowed them to get a port into your realm so this would cause more action.
Relics right now are just so....who cares? In NF they meant something. Keep defense was 10 times more fun in NF because you actually had to have some tactics to take certain keeps/towers etc. OF is simply go there, take a non defended keep, move to the next one. Rinse/repeat. Want to take a relic? Lets just go directly to it and take it. No need to take any keeps beforehand etc.
I miss NF, not NNF. Bridge fights were epic, keep defense was epic, OF is OK for the nostalgic purposes, but in reality...not so much. I mean how many people miss waiting 20 minutes sitting on a portal just waiting to port to OF? What about roaming red/purp guards? Want that again? Nahhhhh.....
I'll play either way because for me its TOA that killed the nostalgia of Daoc. It just brought too many tools that were unneeded. If it remains OF then so be it, but I really think NF would shine with this much population, and would shine even if population dropped by 50%.
No one honestly can say they came back to Daoc because of the looks/feel of OF, you came for the old playstyles.

Thu 14 Mar 2019 9:46 PM by Misterteatime

@Cere2: You perfectly summed up my thoughts / view on the topic. I'm also ok with OF atm but at the same time i'm pretty sure that everyone would have even more fun with NF. Nowadays it just taskzone zerging without a real goal besides arpees. I fear that in the long run it could become stale if nothing is changed.