Any updates on status of Archers?

Seen a lot of great updates, I'm digging the small changes to tasks honestly. I've RvRd in the non task zones and found some good fights and still get task credit! Rad. its decongested the frontier for sure and I love that staff is so pro actively listening to the playerbase, and just overall having fun on Phoenix more often than I am spending time complaining about it.

Still one inquiry though, few weeks ago heard there was an "internal discussion" going on about Archers. A lot of tweaks to assassins.. But are us archers gonna get Camo at least soon? Still pretty tough to avoid getting perfed from a mile away 😊

Fri 8 Mar 2019 9:04 AM by Durgrim

Snoogy wrote: ↑
Fri 8 Mar 2019 8:45 AM
Seen a lot of great updates, I'm digging the small changes to tasks honestly. I've RvRd in the non task zones and found some good fights and still get task credit! Rad. its decongested the frontier for sure and I love that staff is so pro actively listening to the playerbase, and just overall having fun on Phoenix more often than I am spending time complaining about it.

Still one inquiry though, few weeks ago heard there was an "internal discussion" going on about Archers. A lot of tweaks to assassins.. But are us archers gonna get Camo at least soon? Still pretty tough to avoid getting perfed from a mile away 😊

No info/news at all. I recommend to expect the worst: that nothing will be changed and adapt your RvR behavior to the circumstances and in the end, you can only be surprised in a positive way instead of waiting for something and being disappointed when it will never get done.

Fri 8 Mar 2019 9:31 AM by Sepplord

aren't assassin nerfs indirect buffs to archers?

I know (and agree) that speccing above 35bow should be more worthwhile, but the main archer complaints i have read on the forums were about being fodder in melee VS assassins.

With the removal of the dot-application-tick assassins are far less of a threat and at least rangers seem to be really strong now vs them on top of having ranged ganking capabilties

Fri 8 Mar 2019 9:45 AM by Durgrim

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Fri 8 Mar 2019 9:31 AM
aren't assassin nerfs indirect buffs to archers?

I know (and agree) that speccing above 35bow should be more worthwhile, but the main archer complaints i have read on the forums were about being fodder in melee VS assassins.

With the removal of the dot-application-tick assassins are far less of a threat and at least rangers seem to be really strong now vs them on top of having ranged ganking capabilties

yeah, that constant whining about archer being assassin fodder is nonsense. to me(!) there is no logical and thus plausible reason why an archer should survive a melee engagement by an assassin. Having made this concession, I would like to have the same scaling in dmg for speccing into archery like a savage gets with increasing h2h from 35 to 50, or the dual wielding classes, etc....

Fri 8 Mar 2019 10:13 AM by Snoogy

I see you have a bunch of alts and no real main in RvR nor as a stealther so I see why your input into this thread is without a use, so I won't respond to your inquiries.

Still curious as to whether or not the disparity in stealth detection between archers and assassins is a topic of interest among GMs 😊

Not trying to whine about assassins being "OP" , an assassin should of course beat an Archer in melee. Shouldn't be able to have such an advantageous ability to so easily see them first however.
Remaining patient and optimistic, still enjoying my ranger occasionally 😊

Fri 8 Mar 2019 10:17 AM by Snoogy

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Fri 8 Mar 2019 9:31 AM
aren't assassin nerfs indirect buffs to archers?

I know (and agree) that speccing above 35bow should be more worthwhile, but the main archer complaints i have read on the forums were about being fodder in melee VS assassins.

With the removal of the dot-application-tick assassins are far less of a threat and at least rangers seem to be really strong now vs them on top of having ranged ganking capabilties

Somewhat. I'm not worried about boe damage at all, my bow hits hard. Sole concern remains addressing the uphill battle of 125 detection ranger over 250. Doesn't make sense that there is such a disparity there, particularly if Archers don't have access to camouflage.

Fri 8 Mar 2019 4:27 PM by Horus

I personally don't think Camo is the answer...unless it was tweaked to be something different than the traditional Camo...given the current stealth mechanic. I would almost just say make detection range the same for all stealth classes. I don't expect to win melee vs assassins but at least give archers a fighting chance to move while stealthed. Right now it is a death sentence.

Not sure about bow damage...at 311 dex, 58 bow, 5.5 speed bow hitting cloth casters for 320 seems low. Just seems to be a lot of variance and dmg really falls off vs. level 50 opponents.

And given all the defenses that have to be penetrated to even land a shot on targets with BT, evade, shield, reactive proc interrupts...would think the arrow hit should be at least worth it when it lands...or maybe make rapid fire un-interruptable.

Fri 8 Mar 2019 6:11 PM by dante`afk

What updates are you looking for?

You should wreck shit with your ranger. If not, then....you know...

Fri 8 Mar 2019 9:51 PM by krycek

Honestly the detection rate doesn't feel any different for me when finding other assassins and archers. If I'm moving most of the time archers will just poof up right in front of me the same way assassins do. Maybe when we're both just standing still in the same area you can spot them farther, dunno. I've had hunters get the drop on me from stealth pretty often.

Also it seems pretty balanced when archers can engage from the safety of bow range that they have a small penalty vs assassins while stealthed.

Sat 9 Mar 2019 12:29 AM by Snoogy

krycek wrote: ↑
Fri 8 Mar 2019 9:51 PM
Honestly the detection rate doesn't feel any different for me when finding other assassins and archers. If I'm moving most of the time archers will just poof up right in front of me the same way assassins do. Maybe when we're both just standing still in the same area you can spot them farther, dunno. I've had hunters get the drop on me from stealth pretty often.

Also it seems pretty balanced when archers can engage from the safety of bow range that they have a small penalty vs assassins while stealthed.

Its 125/250 .. I see assasins able to /stick me well before I see them. I don't expect to win melee I just want even stealth to avoid a perf occasionally

Sat 9 Mar 2019 1:19 AM by krycek

Snoogy wrote: ↑
Sat 9 Mar 2019 12:29 AM
krycek wrote: ↑
Fri 8 Mar 2019 9:51 PM
Honestly the detection rate doesn't feel any different for me when finding other assassins and archers. If I'm moving most of the time archers will just poof up right in front of me the same way assassins do. Maybe when we're both just standing still in the same area you can spot them farther, dunno. I've had hunters get the drop on me from stealth pretty often.

Also it seems pretty balanced when archers can engage from the safety of bow range that they have a small penalty vs assassins while stealthed.

Its 125/250 .. I see assasins able to /stick me well before I see them. I don't expect to win melee I just want even stealth to avoid a perf occasionally

You're saying you don't expect to win melee. But without the advantage of getting off openers easier vs archers..thats kind of what you're wanting.

Sat 9 Mar 2019 6:49 AM by Snoogy

Getting off openers shouldn't be "easier" for assassins on archers. It should be part of being a skilled assasin. All I'd like to see is even detection range so I'm not opening a fight with an assassin with being perfed in the face every single time I come anywhere near one. Any assasin worth his salt will still beat most rangers without perf anyway. Having even detection range allows me an opportunity to not engage an assassin from time to time, right now its difficult to avoid them. Very easy fix that would make life almost nearly as enjoyable for archers as it is for assassins

Sat 9 Mar 2019 6:52 AM by Snoogy

I didn't mean to make this a thread strictly wining unfortunately it became that.

On a 24 page Archer thread a GM closed the thread and said "24 pages seems enough discussion. There is an internal discussion about archers taking place" a few weeks ago and was wondering if any specifics of that conversation would be noted

Sat 9 Mar 2019 1:04 PM by Durgrim

Snoogy wrote: ↑
Sat 9 Mar 2019 6:52 AM
I didn't mean to make this a thread strictly wining unfortunately it became that.

On a 24 page Archer thread a GM closed the thread and said "24 pages seems enough discussion. There is an internal discussion about archers taking place" a few weeks ago and was wondering if any specifics of that conversation would be noted

fair enough.

Sat 9 Mar 2019 2:30 PM by Sepplord

Well...one of archers biggest banes (assassins) got a heavy nerf which helps archers

Speccing high bow should get an incentive though

Sat 9 Mar 2019 3:30 PM by krumr

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Sat 9 Mar 2019 2:30 PM
Well...one of archers biggest banes (assassins) got a heavy nerf which helps archers

Speccing high bow should get an incentive though

Just as a side-note, but calling it a "heavy nerf" is an overstatement: DoTs don't tick anymore on a new application, but, at the same time, Viper values have been drastically increased, more than doubled at certain thresholds (r1: 5% to 10%; r2: 10% to 25%; r3: 20% to 35%; r4: 30% to 50%; r5: 40% to 75%), as if weapon swapping to trigger DoTs was a working-as-intended, albeit a bit too strong, feature.

All in all, Viper was made (much) more appealing, the skill ceiling on the assassin archetype has been lowered (because the archetype clearly needed some help) and the gap between weapon-swappers and non-weapon-swappers has been significantly shortened: assuming the same levels of the Viper RA are taken into consideration, the latters will actually find their poison damage increased.

Sat 9 Mar 2019 6:39 PM by Stoertebecker

krumr wrote: ↑
Sat 9 Mar 2019 3:30 PM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Sat 9 Mar 2019 2:30 PM
Well...one of archers biggest banes (assassins) got a heavy nerf which helps archers

Speccing high bow should get an incentive though

ll in all, Viper was made (much) more appealing, the skill ceiling on the assassin archetype has been lowered (because the archetype clearly needed some help) and the gap between weapon-swappers and non-weapon-swappers has been significantly shortened: assuming the same levels of the Viper RA are taken into consideration, the latters will actually find their poison damage increased.

You don`t understand... they want it all...for free and with every swing. And i guess a button for instant kill each class would be nice.

Sat 9 Mar 2019 9:07 PM by Padatoo

krumr wrote: ↑
Sat 9 Mar 2019 3:30 PM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Sat 9 Mar 2019 2:30 PM
Well...one of archers biggest banes (assassins) got a heavy nerf which helps archers

Speccing high bow should get an incentive though

Just as a side-note, but calling it a "heavy nerf" is an overstatement: DoTs don't tick anymore on a new application, but, at the same time, Viper values have been drastically increased, more than doubled at certain thresholds (r1: 5% to 10%; r2: 10% to 25%; r3: 20% to 35%; r4: 30% to 50%; r5: 40% to 75%), as if weapon swapping to trigger DoTs was a working-as-intended, albeit a bit too strong, feature.

All in all, Viper was made (much) more appealing, the skill ceiling on the assassin archetype has been lowered (because the archetype clearly needed some help) and the gap between weapon-swappers and non-weapon-swappers has been significantly shortened: assuming the same levels of the Viper RA are taken into consideration, the latters will actually find their poison damage increased.

Poison damage after nerf is maybe 20% of what it was before - assassins didnt even need Viper before the nerf.

Sat 9 Mar 2019 10:17 PM by jdaoc

Ok thats enough Sepplord , we know you are still buthurt from that time when an archer killed you in RvR, we get it, just stop already. I have seen your posts here and on Uthgard in every archer post trying to discredit archer class. You dont play an archer so really just go away and stop trying to undermine the fact that archers are nerfed harder than any class currently on Phoenix. How you may ask yourself? Let me outline it for you:

1 Archer have been robbed of Physical Defense. Meanwhile Casters still get it.
2 Mastery of Stealth was baked in to the stealth spec and it also has the detection component removed. That is supposed to be a realm ability and was given to archers so they can defend them self instead of being easy prey.
3 Camouflage was removed for archers.
4 Crit shot can only be used once every 15 seconds. It is not supposed to be restricted like this.
5 Assassins enjoy 125 units of detection bonus vs archers here on Phoenix allowing them to easily see and Perf archers with 100% impunity.

Now then, there is 5 things off the top of my head that have been custom implemented on this server to intentionally make archers weak and food for assassins. I cant speak about bow damage yet as i do not have an archer to 50 yet however, mo other class that i have seen has all these custom changes to make them weaker. Only Archers.

Now i really want to see if the developers of this server are true to thier word and listen to the players and, more importantly, do the right thing so it is fair play for all classes, including the archer class. The poster who made this topic just wants to know, like a lot of players, if we can expect archers to get the abilities they are supposed to have instead of being the only class who was customized to intentionally be weak.

Sat 9 Mar 2019 11:27 PM by krycek

Snoogy wrote: ↑
Sat 9 Mar 2019 6:49 AM
Getting off openers shouldn't be "easier" for assassins on archers. It should be part of being a skilled assasin. All I'd like to see is even detection range so I'm not opening a fight with an assassin with being perfed in the face every single time I come anywhere near one. Any assasin worth his salt will still beat most rangers without perf anyway. Having even detection range allows me an opportunity to not engage an assassin from time to time, right now its difficult to avoid them. Very easy fix that would make life almost nearly as enjoyable for archers as it is for assassins

So you're wanting archers to be even with assassins in stealth and keep a huge advantage with range. I'll counter your "skilled assassin" point with archers should be better at positioning themselves to use their range more effectively. It should be part of being a skilled archer. Seems to me the role of an assassin is to hunt archers and casters. Having better stealth detection makes sense.

Sat 9 Mar 2019 11:53 PM by jdaoc

krycek wrote: ↑
Sat 9 Mar 2019 11:27 PM
Snoogy wrote: ↑
Sat 9 Mar 2019 6:49 AM
Getting off openers shouldn't be "easier" for assassins on archers. It should be part of being a skilled assasin. All I'd like to see is even detection range so I'm not opening a fight with an assassin with being perfed in the face every single time I come anywhere near one. Any assasin worth his salt will still beat most rangers without perf anyway. Having even detection range allows me an opportunity to not engage an assassin from time to time, right now its difficult to avoid them. Very easy fix that would make life almost nearly as enjoyable for archers as it is for assassins

So you're wanting archers to be even with assassins in stealth and keep a huge advantage with range. I'll counter your "skilled assassin" point with archers should be better at positioning themselves to use their range more effectively. It should be part of being a skilled archer. Seems to me the role of an assassin is to hunt archers and casters. Having better stealth detection makes sense.

Thats the way the game is - both classes are stealth archetype. Of course the archer has the range advantage since they use a bow - thanks for stating the obvious. Let me correct your awkward way of thinking mr assassin..... No, the assassins job is not to hunt only archers and casters they can hunt ALL classes. Why is it you do not want the archer to have the same ability too ? Are you worried you may become hunted? It is so comical when would be assassins come here and post this garbage in an effort to keep the archer weaker than himself so he has no competition and an easy source of free realm points.

If you cannot provide a statement from Mythic Entertainment saying that archers are supposed to be easy kills and free realm points for assassins they stop spreading misinformation. We know this is not the case from the changes they made to archers to allow them to compete ( camouflage , MoS ) instead of having no chance vs assassins. Do not be jealous that archer has a bow , you get to poison your weapons, and you have a RA which was just buffed big time to make that even deadlier, and you can climb walls. Each class in this game has its own specialties. Its so ridiculous to see posts on here like yours complaining that archers have superior range. That is the archer archetypes specialty. Thats it.

Sun 10 Mar 2019 12:08 AM by waffel

krycek wrote: ↑
Sat 9 Mar 2019 11:27 PM
Snoogy wrote: ↑
Sat 9 Mar 2019 6:49 AM
Getting off openers shouldn't be "easier" for assassins on archers. It should be part of being a skilled assasin. All I'd like to see is even detection range so I'm not opening a fight with an assassin with being perfed in the face every single time I come anywhere near one. Any assasin worth his salt will still beat most rangers without perf anyway. Having even detection range allows me an opportunity to not engage an assassin from time to time, right now its difficult to avoid them. Very easy fix that would make life almost nearly as enjoyable for archers as it is for assassins

So you're wanting archers to be even with assassins in stealth and keep a huge advantage with range. I'll counter your "skilled assassin" point with archers should be better at positioning themselves to use their range more effectively. It should be part of being a skilled archer. Seems to me the role of an assassin is to hunt archers and casters. Having better stealth detection makes sense.

Who, exactly, are archers soloing using their superior range? Not other archers or assassins. Not heavy tanks. Not casters with pets. Or casters with CC or nearsigt. Not skalds or minstrels. So archers can probably solo healers, clerics, and druid by using their superiors range. Classes that are literally never solo. Sick bro.

Sun 10 Mar 2019 12:17 AM by krycek

Archers aren't free kills by any means. Melee rangers and hunters already go toe to toe with an assassin and even scouts with, I'm assuming, high mob are tough in melee. They get even stronger with higher rr with ip and then start getting more offensive ra's. Yeah, the bow is an archers specialty, and if that was it, as you say..then why are you here complaining about losing in melee to assassins? Oh, whats that? You want to be just as competitive in melee with assassins and still have your bow? Doesn't sound biased at all. Stealth is the assassins specialty. With superior stealth they can hunt the arrow flinging archers. Role-playing can be fun.

Sun 10 Mar 2019 12:26 AM by krycek

waffel wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Mar 2019 12:08 AM
krycek wrote: ↑
Sat 9 Mar 2019 11:27 PM
Snoogy wrote: ↑
Sat 9 Mar 2019 6:49 AM
Getting off openers shouldn't be "easier" for assassins on archers. It should be part of being a skilled assasin. All I'd like to see is even detection range so I'm not opening a fight with an assassin with being perfed in the face every single time I come anywhere near one. Any assasin worth his salt will still beat most rangers without perf anyway. Having even detection range allows me an opportunity to not engage an assassin from time to time, right now its difficult to avoid them. Very easy fix that would make life almost nearly as enjoyable for archers as it is for assassins

So you're wanting archers to be even with assassins in stealth and keep a huge advantage with range. I'll counter your "skilled assassin" point with archers should be better at positioning themselves to use their range more effectively. It should be part of being a skilled archer. Seems to me the role of an assassin is to hunt archers and casters. Having better stealth detection makes sense.

Who, exactly, are archers soloing using their superior range? Not other archers or assassins. Not heavy tanks. Not casters with pets. Or casters with CC or nearsigt. Not skalds or minstrels. So archers can probably solo healers, clerics, and druid by using their superiors range. Classes that are literally never solo. Sick bro.

I've seen archers doing exactly what you say can't be done. Maybe you should reevaluate your play style?

Sun 10 Mar 2019 12:31 AM by Tillbeast

Most archers don't want to be equal in melee with an assassin as that's unfair. All I want as an archer is a chance to avoid them which we don't have on phoenix. All of our toys that we had to avoid assassins have been taken off us. An assassin should kill any archer they catch in melee however they should not automatically see the archer first. Saying an assassin should have better detection is as dumb as saying an archer needs better stealth detection than assassins to spot them at range where there bow is useful as stealth is an archers speciality. Base stealth detection should be equal and realm abilities (MoS and Truesight) made available to both archers and assassins so it is the players choice just how good or bad they are at stealth detection. You can ignore MoS and get dps related abilities to kill quicker and more efficient but sacrifice the ability to find MoS users who can avoid you and at later levels turn the tables and hunt them down. At the moment only realistic targets an archer has is low rr clothe casters and unstealthed stealthers. Any high rr clothe caster with MoC and dps boosting RA's can out race an archer even with an archers ignore pain and 70% damage from MoC as the assassin has no MoC equivalent for his bow.

Sun 10 Mar 2019 12:40 AM by Kronin

I played ranger in beta before the free rr5. I was almost rr6 with them when the auto rr5 was put in. Only class really gave me problems was shield tanks and I had to kite them away to kill.

Sure assa can see archers from farther it should be that way. Always had been that way in daoc. (I played scout this patch lvl up past toa so I know that it was without a doubt) I feel like camo should be in the game though for archers I do not disagree with this.

On my shade many scouts get slam off either before my perf or after my perf waiting for CD to land. Dunno why scouts dont spec slash here not like if they try to melee thrust or slash its going to make a difference but what does make a difference is a side style snare that will allow them to kite in a 1v1. If your opponent purges your slam you can at least get side snare off kite for slam duration to reset and slam again then pew pew pew. As for hunters never played one nor will I play one just not interesting to me so dunno about them = (

I have retired my shade on phoenix and rerolled to a mini. Even on uthgard i retired my inf and played mini. It took me very long time to learn I can not play another stealther like a assa because of the advantage of stealth detection. Once I did this I really had no issues (other then stinking Cirath) Even on phoenix its not a big deal. Sure I get jumped sometimes, some I win some I lose. That is the game.

One of my good friends just leveled a scout to 50, he stayed in frontier from 30 to 50 and leveled that way, he telling me he kill casters in 3 shots and he not even max temp. /shrug.

Sun 10 Mar 2019 12:45 AM by Stoertebecker

krycek wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Mar 2019 12:17 AM
You want to be just as competitive in melee with assassins and still have your bow? Doesn't sound biased at all.

No, they want to be competive with their BOW, and if you don`t see your target soon enough to get 1 arrow fired this advantage is nullified.
There is simply no range advantage at 100-250 locs. There is the reaction second, targeting, then draw the bow, meanwhile you`re already pa`d.
Could be possible..maybe... if you bind Tab +Face+Bow+Shot via macro to a mouse button, but i`m sure that isn`t allowed here.

Sun 10 Mar 2019 12:48 AM by Kronin

Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Mar 2019 12:45 AM
krycek wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Mar 2019 12:17 AM
You want to be just as competitive in melee with assassins and still have your bow? Doesn't sound biased at all.

No, they want to be competive with their BOW, and if you don`t see your target soon enough to get 1 arrow fired this advantage is nullified.
There is simply no range advantage at 100-250 locs. There is the reaction second, targeting, then draw the bow, meanwhile you`re already pa`d.
Could be possible..maybe... if you bind Tab +Face+Bow+Shot via macro to a mouse button, but i`m sure that isn`t allowed here.

One shot is not gonna make a difference it will only make them mad.. lol

Sun 10 Mar 2019 1:12 AM by krycek

Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Mar 2019 12:45 AM
krycek wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Mar 2019 12:17 AM
You want to be just as competitive in melee with assassins and still have your bow? Doesn't sound biased at all.

No, they want to be competive with their BOW, and if you don`t see your target soon enough to get 1 arrow fired this advantage is nullified.
There is simply no range advantage at 100-250 locs. There is the reaction second, targeting, then draw the bow, meanwhile you`re already pa`d.
Could be possible..maybe... if you bind Tab +Face+Bow+Shot via macro to a mouse button, but i`m sure that isn`t allowed here.

Unless it has been changed recently. You can ready a crit shot while in stealth without having a target. Crazy idea, I know. But I've been crit in stealth by an archer before I could get into melee range. But maybe that archer knew what they were doing. I doubt they are one of the one's here crying about stealth detection.

Sun 10 Mar 2019 4:03 AM by Snoogy

Leave it to someone with a low RR assasin on both alb and hib to derail this topic.

All I asked is if the "internal discussion" about archers had made any stride, assuming that was to address the stealth detection disparity. I won't argue about the fact that the 125/250 range advantageous to assassins, it is. If you disagree and want to make passive aggressive insults to my playstyle (5L7 entirely solo) go ahead but I won't acknowledge them.

Thank you for being dense and derailing this thread that will most likely be locked as a result, I asked a question about something that was publicly stated as being discussed having not heard about that since.

I still enjoy my ranger, but the stealth disadvantage continues to be persistently vexing.

Anyway done with this thread, leave it to a thick assassin player to derail it entirely.

Sun 10 Mar 2019 4:47 AM by jdaoc

krycek wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Mar 2019 12:17 AM
Archers aren't free kills by any means. Melee rangers and hunters already go toe to toe with an assassin and even scouts with, I'm assuming, high mob are tough in melee. They get even stronger with higher rr with ip and then start getting more offensive ra's. Yeah, the bow is an archers specialty, and if that was it, as you say..then why are you here complaining about losing in melee to assassins? Oh, whats that? You want to be just as competitive in melee with assassins and still have your bow? Doesn't sound biased at all. Stealth is the assassins specialty. With superior stealth they can hunt the arrow flinging archers. Role-playing can be fun.

Sure... you just keep living in dreamland. Melee and high ranked hybrid spec archers can go toe to toe with assassins as they do on live and for many years now since they got camo and MoS. But thats what you are upset about isnt it? Like i said, you want free RP and little to no competition. What you dont get is assassins no longer have superior stealth and no longer have 100% guarantee to Perf and kill archers with no risk to themselves and havent for a long time on live servers because Mythic realized they made a mistake and it wasnt right or fair for assassins to never be at risk when engaging archers, who are the same rogue type of class. That is fact. You dont like that but that is the facts.

Its hilarious watching you assassins invade simple threads like this and claim you are "supposed to have superior melee and superior stealth" . Those Rangers and Hunters you claim are tough are full melee specced so stop trying to act like they are archer speced. lol. They dont even have the proper abilities and have been robbed of at least 5 abilities \ skills here and still you moan about how its so unfair for assassins that the archers have ranged attack. Really a good laugh.

Sun 10 Mar 2019 4:54 AM by Moonshot

Snoogy wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Mar 2019 4:03 AM
Leave it to someone with a low RR assasin on both alb and hib to derail this topic.

All I asked is if the "internal discussion" about archers had made any stride, assuming that was to address the stealth detection disparity. I won't argue about the fact that the 125/250 range advantageous to assassins, it is. If you disagree and want to make passive aggressive insults to my playstyle (5L7 entirely solo) go ahead but I won't acknowledge them.

Thank you for being dense and derailing this thread that will most likely be locked as a result, I asked a question about something that was publicly stated as being discussed having not heard about that since.

I still enjoy my ranger, but the stealth disadvantage continues to be persistently vexing.

Anyway done with this thread, leave it to a thick assassin player to derail it entirely.

Thanks for the Thread Snoogy, These assassin players fear the archer and every post in this thread attempting to derail it proves that.

Sun 10 Mar 2019 5:00 AM by jdaoc

Kronin wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Mar 2019 12:40 AM
I played ranger in beta before the free rr5. I was almost rr6 with them when the auto rr5 was put in. Only class really gave me problems was shield tanks and I had to kite them away to kill.

Sure assa can see archers from farther it should be that way. Always had been that way in daoc. (I played scout this patch lvl up past toa so I know that it was without a doubt) I feel like camo should be in the game though for archers I do not disagree with this.

First of all this is not beta anymore, its not the same. Second of all do you even realize why Mythic gave archers camo and MoS in the first place? Its because for a long time assassins were raping all archers with complete 100% impunity , getting guaranteed perfs and wins every time. Mythic finally realized this and made the necessary changes to even the playing field. So no, assassins should not be able to see archers at longer range nor should they get a default win vs an archer in melee if that archer is speced in melee to defend himself. That is utterly ridiculous.

Sun 10 Mar 2019 5:25 AM by krycek

Thinking that I don't like competition is pretty funny. I was all for the poison nerf. The more the better. Just trying to rationalize the reason assassins should have higher stealth detection than archers. If they do change it, in the end I don't care. Like I said in a previous post it's not much difference now anyway. Still see archers pop up in melee range the same as I do assassins. Only difference is when we're standing still.

Also pointing out my realm rank when the game is almost 20 years old is laughable. RR = skill amirite? Hope to see you boys out there though. Make sure ya /hug or /wave after you kill me. Or /rude if that makes ya feel better.

Sun 10 Mar 2019 5:32 AM by Stoertebecker

Kronin wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Mar 2019 12:48 AM
Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Mar 2019 12:45 AM
krycek wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Mar 2019 12:17 AM
You want to be just as competitive in melee with assassins and still have your bow? Doesn't sound biased at all.

No, they want to be competive with their BOW, and if you don`t see your target soon enough to get 1 arrow fired this advantage is nullified.
There is simply no range advantage at 100-250 locs. There is the reaction second, targeting, then draw the bow, meanwhile you`re already pa`d.
Could be possible..maybe... if you bind Tab +Face+Bow+Shot via macro to a mouse button, but i`m sure that isn`t allowed here.

One shot is not gonna make a difference it will only make them mad.. lol

1 shot means outta stealth, no pa, no cd. Imo a huge difference.

Sun 10 Mar 2019 5:44 AM by Stoertebecker

krycek wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Mar 2019 1:12 AM
Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Mar 2019 12:45 AM
krycek wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Mar 2019 12:17 AM
You want to be just as competitive in melee with assassins and still have your bow? Doesn't sound biased at all.

No, they want to be competive with their BOW, and if you don`t see your target soon enough to get 1 arrow fired this advantage is nullified.
There is simply no range advantage at 100-250 locs. There is the reaction second, targeting, then draw the bow, meanwhile you`re already pa`d.
Could be possible..maybe... if you bind Tab +Face+Bow+Shot via macro to a mouse button, but i`m sure that isn`t allowed here.

Unless it has been changed recently. You can ready a crit shot while in stealth without having a target. Crazy idea, I know. But I've been crit in stealth by an archer before I could get into melee range. But maybe that archer knew what they were doing. I doubt they are one of the one's here crying about stealth detection.

It`s possible to rdy a crit shot without target, means you`re standing stil the whole time, standing there like a paranoid stature. Thats you`re solution? Just because you were hit by an archer where you don`t know if it was a crit shot or just a critical hit. You´re a amart one * clap

Sun 10 Mar 2019 5:49 AM by AngelRose

Some pretty dumb comments from sins.

1, The only way a crit shot can be pre-loaded is if your are standing still. Guess hunters are to just stand in one area, with shot loaded, hoping someone runs into range. And lets not forget, hitting crit shot knocks an archer out of stealth a large percentage of the time.
2. Archers are not asking to go toe to toe with sins, just an opportunity to at least see sins coming at same range. If sin is played well, why feel you need that advantage?
3. How the hell is an archer supposed to use 'skilled range' against a target they can't see till it is on top of them.

This skulllz guy breaks down the hunter/archer issue very well. It is worth a read if you missed this thread: https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=5168

Sun 10 Mar 2019 6:41 AM by krycek

Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Mar 2019 5:44 AM
krycek wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Mar 2019 1:12 AM
Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Mar 2019 12:45 AM
No, they want to be competive with their BOW, and if you don`t see your target soon enough to get 1 arrow fired this advantage is nullified.
There is simply no range advantage at 100-250 locs. There is the reaction second, targeting, then draw the bow, meanwhile you`re already pa`d.
Could be possible..maybe... if you bind Tab +Face+Bow+Shot via macro to a mouse button, but i`m sure that isn`t allowed here.

Unless it has been changed recently. You can ready a crit shot while in stealth without having a target. Crazy idea, I know. But I've been crit in stealth by an archer before I could get into melee range. But maybe that archer knew what they were doing. I doubt they are one of the one's here crying about stealth detection.

It`s possible to rdy a crit shot without target, means you`re standing stil the whole time, standing there like a paranoid stature. Thats you`re solution? Just because you were hit by an archer where you don`t know if it was a crit shot or just a critical hit. You´re a amart one * clap

Just trying to help you poor folks out, not being able to kill anything but grey cons and all. And yes I know the difference between a crit shot and being crit with a normal shot..cuz ya know...it say's normal dmg then critical dmg is seperate. I R smart.

I'm not saying to just stand in one spot permanently either jfc. But I'm assuming you aren't like a shark and always moving forward either. So when you are standing still, load up a crit shot? Baby steps.

Sun 10 Mar 2019 6:46 AM by AngelRose

krycek wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Mar 2019 6:41 AM
Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Mar 2019 5:44 AM
krycek wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Mar 2019 1:12 AM
Unless it has been changed recently. You can ready a crit shot while in stealth without having a target. Crazy idea, I know. But I've been crit in stealth by an archer before I could get into melee range. But maybe that archer knew what they were doing. I doubt they are one of the one's here crying about stealth detection.

It`s possible to rdy a crit shot without target, means you`re standing stil the whole time, standing there like a paranoid stature. Thats you`re solution? Just because you were hit by an archer where you don`t know if it was a crit shot or just a critical hit. You´re a amart one * clap

Just trying to help you poor folks out, not being able to kill anything but grey cons and all. And yes I know the difference between a crit shot and being crit with a normal shot..cuz ya know...it say's normal dmg then critical dmg is seperate. I R smart.

I'm not saying to just stand in one spot permanently either jfc. But I'm assuming you aren't like a shark and always moving forward either. So when you are standing still, load up a crit shot? Baby steps.

Sorry, but you really have nothing constructive to add to this conversation, besides making it clear you need an huge advantage to fight archers.

Sun 10 Mar 2019 8:14 AM by krycek

AngelRose wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Mar 2019 6:46 AM
krycek wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Mar 2019 6:41 AM
Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Mar 2019 5:44 AM
It`s possible to rdy a crit shot without target, means you`re standing stil the whole time, standing there like a paranoid stature. Thats you`re solution? Just because you were hit by an archer where you don`t know if it was a crit shot or just a critical hit. You´re a amart one * clap

Just trying to help you poor folks out, not being able to kill anything but grey cons and all. And yes I know the difference between a crit shot and being crit with a normal shot..cuz ya know...it say's normal dmg then critical dmg is seperate. I R smart.

I'm not saying to just stand in one spot permanently either jfc. But I'm assuming you aren't like a shark and always moving forward either. So when you are standing still, load up a crit shot? Baby steps.

Sorry, but you really have nothing constructive to add to this conversation, besides making it clear you need an huge advantage to fight archers.

Clearly. Really constructive post btw. Really adds depth to the thread. But I'll see myself out. Let you archers wallow in your own pitiful echo chamber about how hard your life is. Who wants to hear opposing points of views anyway?

Sun 10 Mar 2019 8:15 AM by krumr

Padatoo wrote: ↑
Sat 9 Mar 2019 9:07 PM
Poison damage after nerf is maybe 20% of what it was before - assassins didnt even need Viper before the nerf.

I didn't mean to derail the topic, hence why I wrote "just as a side-note", so I won't further comment or reply on this specific topic.

Sun 10 Mar 2019 8:42 AM by Snoogy

So now all archers can kill are greys?

You've deduced all this from me asking if the conversation about archers that a GM mentioned was being held yielded any updates for the class on the horizon? Interesting.

Sun 10 Mar 2019 8:43 AM by Snoogy

AngelRose wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Mar 2019 5:49 AM
Some pretty dumb comments from sins.

1, The only way a crit shot can be pre-loaded is if your are standing still. Guess hunters are to just stand in one area, with shot loaded, hoping someone runs into range. And lets not forget, hitting crit shot knocks an archer out of stealth a large percentage of the time.
2. Archers are not asking to go toe to toe with sins, just an opportunity to at least see sins coming at same range. If sin is played well, why feel you need that advantage?
3. How the hell is an archer supposed to use 'skilled range' against a target they can't see till it is on top of them.

This skulllz guy breaks down the hunter/archer issue very well. It is worth a read if you missed this thread: https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=5168

This entirely.

Sun 10 Mar 2019 9:59 AM by Stoertebecker

krycek wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Mar 2019 6:41 AM
Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Mar 2019 5:44 AM
krycek wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Mar 2019 1:12 AM
Unless it has been changed recently. You can ready a crit shot while in stealth without having a target. Crazy idea, I know. But I've been crit in stealth by an archer before I could get into melee range. But maybe that archer knew what they were doing. I doubt they are one of the one's here crying about stealth detection.

It`s possible to rdy a crit shot without target, means you`re standing stil the whole time, standing there like a paranoid stature. Thats you`re solution? Just because you were hit by an archer where you don`t know if it was a crit shot or just a critical hit. You´re a amart one * clap

But I'm assuming you aren't like a shark and always moving forward either.

Atm i`m moving really fast forward, but not on an archer.

Sun 10 Mar 2019 10:54 AM by Fooj Fujiyama

Besides everything everyone else is talking about, can we talk about how not having dodger as an archer feels terrible? Evade 3 is terrible on it's own ;(

Sun 10 Mar 2019 11:37 AM by Cirath

krycek wrote: ↑
Fri 8 Mar 2019 9:51 PM
Honestly the detection rate doesn't feel any different for me when finding other assassins and archers. If I'm moving most of the time archers will just poof up right in front of me the same way assassins do. Maybe when we're both just standing still in the same area you can spot them farther, dunno. I've had hunters get the drop on me from stealth pretty often.

Also it seems pretty balanced when archers can engage from the safety of bow range that they have a small penalty vs assassins while stealthed.

100% THIS. Why should archers have the same safety in stealth as assasins when archers can engage with high dps at 2000 units without getting their hands dirty? 250 units is still a SMALL detection range, especially when both parties are moving. The assasin needs to get in melee, get their hands dirty and put themselves at risk. The archer just sits back at a safe distance and pewpewpew leeches rps off other peoples fights...

Sun 10 Mar 2019 11:44 AM by Cirath

AngelRose wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Mar 2019 5:49 AM
Some pretty dumb comments from sins.

1, The only way a crit shot can be pre-loaded is if your are standing still. Guess hunters are to just stand in one area, with shot loaded, hoping someone runs into range. And lets not forget, hitting crit shot knocks an archer out of stealth a large percentage of the time.
2. Archers are not asking to go toe to toe with sins, just an opportunity to at least see sins coming at same range. If sin is played well, why feel you need that advantage?
3. How the hell is an archer supposed to use 'skilled range' against a target they can't see till it is on top of them.

This skulllz guy breaks down the hunter/archer issue very well. It is worth a read if you missed this thread: https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=5168

Some pretty dumb comments from archers. Are you familiar with the concept of trade offs? You know, that ability you have to engage people with high dps at 2000 units range? keeping yourself out of danger and GREATLY increasing the number of incs you can get? You give up a measly 100 units of stealth detection for that. Seems more than fair to me. For gods sake its not like people are seeing you at clip range like the old see hidden days. 250 units in the open field is NOTHING...

Sun 10 Mar 2019 12:35 PM by Tillbeast

Cirath wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Mar 2019 11:44 AM
AngelRose wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Mar 2019 5:49 AM
Some pretty dumb comments from sins.

1, The only way a crit shot can be pre-loaded is if your are standing still. Guess hunters are to just stand in one area, with shot loaded, hoping someone runs into range. And lets not forget, hitting crit shot knocks an archer out of stealth a large percentage of the time.
2. Archers are not asking to go toe to toe with sins, just an opportunity to at least see sins coming at same range. If sin is played well, why feel you need that advantage?
3. How the hell is an archer supposed to use 'skilled range' against a target they can't see till it is on top of them.

This skulllz guy breaks down the hunter/archer issue very well. It is worth a read if you missed this thread: https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=5168

Some pretty dumb comments from archers. Are you familiar with the concept of trade offs? You know, that ability you have to engage people with high dps at 2000 units range? keeping yourself out of danger and GREATLY increasing the number of incs you can get? You give up a measly 100 units of stealth detection for that. Seems more than fair to me. For gods sake its not like people are seeing you at clip range like the old see hidden days. 250 units in the open field is NOTHING...

In the orginal version of the game that small stealth advantage was not as big an issue as it is on phoenix. Everything was spread out then, everyone could find the type of rvr they liked. You can't do that on phoenix, be honest how many solo low rr casters are there out there? These are an archers primary target (also assassins). However everything now small mans, 8 mans or zergs. An assassin has huge front load dps and vanish so he can engage a straggler, kill it and disappear when noticed. An archer does not have this luxury, all it takes is one spell to interrupt his bow and he is hardly going to charge headlong into a group to finish target with melee when there is enemy about. Not only that most targets will be grouped and therefore buffed making it much harder for archers whose bow damage has been severely restricted to kill them even if fully self buffed with a template. We don't have the option of engaging from melee as we have no escape tools to survive the attention we get from nearby dps. Basically the game bunches us all together which plays into the assassins hands with there superior stealth detection. This is why it needs equalling out, no class should have an advantage. Now if this was new frontiers with plenty of places where a solo caster could do well then the slight advantage assassins get would not be as big an issue but whilst archers primary targets are unavailable and we are forced to fight in same areas something needs to change.

Only way your argument holds was if archers are given a large boost to archery damage and ability to 100% ignore bladeturn so we can use are extra range to our advantage....that's never going to nor should happen.

Both love and hate my hunter. the idea behind it is fun but its in game abilities to perform and the amount of anti archer defences our enemies get are severely limiting the class and they are highly frustrating to play. When fighting in task zones I cannot crit over 400 on anything that's when fully potion buffed with max template. I am rr3L9 and 80% of my rps have come from killing yellow levellers in crauchon gorge as that's the only place where I can actually solo something. Go into task zone, target a cloth caster and its either

1..bladeturn absorbs shot...clothie faces qcasts anything, I am interrupted...then I am nuked and anything in area swamps me or
2..penetrating arrow works hit for 300-400 ...clothie faces qcasts anything...well you can see where this is going.

You just don't find solo casters. So you are forced to engage in areas where assassins are common. This is a custom server where the rvr dynamics are very different to the old live servers so some classes will need severely changing.

Sun 10 Mar 2019 12:54 PM by Sepplord

jdaoc wrote: ↑
Sat 9 Mar 2019 10:17 PM
Ok thats enough Sepplord , we know you are still buthurt from that time when an archer killed you in RvR, we get it, just stop already. I have seen your posts here and on Uthgard in every archer post trying to discredit archer class. You dont play an archer so really just go away and stop trying to undermine the fact that archers are nerfed harder than any class currently on Phoenix. How you may ask yourself? Let me outline it for you:

1 Archer have been robbed of Physical Defense. Meanwhile Casters still get it.
2 Mastery of Stealth was baked in to the stealth spec and it also has the detection component removed. That is supposed to be a realm ability and was given to archers so they can defend them self instead of being easy prey.
3 Camouflage was removed for archers.
4 Crit shot can only be used once every 15 seconds. It is not supposed to be restricted like this.
5 Assassins enjoy 125 units of detection bonus vs archers here on Phoenix allowing them to easily see and Perf archers with 100% impunity.

Now then, there is 5 things off the top of my head that have been custom implemented on this server to intentionally make archers weak and food for assassins. I cant speak about bow damage yet as i do not have an archer to 50 yet however, mo other class that i have seen has all these custom changes to make them weaker. Only Archers.

Now i really want to see if the developers of this server are true to thier word and listen to the players and, more importantly, do the right thing so it is fair play for all classes, including the archer class. The poster who made this topic just wants to know, like a lot of players, if we can expect archers to get the abilities they are supposed to have instead of being the only class who was customized to intentionally be weak.

Quit making up stuff, i only played for a few hours in uthgard and surely didnt participate in any balance discussions.
The lengths you People go to try and discredit others is astonishing...

Neither am i butthurt about the change, i Welcome it because imo it was an exploit. It is still a heavy power reduction, and the viperchange negates the powerloss VIPER had because of the change, it doesnt negate the overall dmg output Change. Do the math, facts >> made up lies

Sun 10 Mar 2019 1:10 PM by Cirath

Most of the difficulties you list for archers also apply to assasins. The zerginess of Phoenix makes it difficult for anyone to solo. Vanish gives you a chance to escape once every 15 minutes, but its no guarantee. Its alot easier for an archer to disengage than an assassin without vanish. Especially hunters and rangers with speed burst, and pets losing aggro on stealth is a huge boon to archers here.

Why should a class with ranged dps be detected in stealth at the same range as a class with only melee dps? doesn't that seem unbalanced to you? Again if you think the only places archers can get kills is sitting at milegates or flags i don't know what to tell you. those places are deathtraps for assasins too with the constant stream of zergs and Alb full groups of stealthers.

Sun 10 Mar 2019 1:32 PM by Kronin

jdaoc wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Mar 2019 5:00 AM
Kronin wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Mar 2019 12:40 AM
I played ranger in beta before the free rr5. I was almost rr6 with them when the auto rr5 was put in. Only class really gave me problems was shield tanks and I had to kite them away to kill.

Sure assa can see archers from farther it should be that way. Always had been that way in daoc. (I played scout this patch lvl up past toa so I know that it was without a doubt) I feel like camo should be in the game though for archers I do not disagree with this.

First of all this is not beta anymore, its not the same. Second of all do you even realize why Mythic gave archers camo and MoS in the first place? Its because for a long time assassins were raping all archers with complete 100% impunity , getting guaranteed perfs and wins every time. Mythic finally realized this and made the necessary changes to even the playing field. So no, assassins should not be able to see archers at longer range nor should they get a default win vs an archer in melee if that archer is speced in melee to defend himself. That is utterly ridiculous.

Really? This isn't beta anymore. WOW I had no freaking clue thanks for the heads up......The point is during beta when I played a ranger the archer nerfs was already in lol try again dude. AGAIN I think camo should be in the game for archers. NO TS though TS was lame.

Sun 10 Mar 2019 1:33 PM by Kronin

Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Mar 2019 5:32 AM
Kronin wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Mar 2019 12:48 AM
Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Mar 2019 12:45 AM
No, they want to be competive with their BOW, and if you don`t see your target soon enough to get 1 arrow fired this advantage is nullified.
There is simply no range advantage at 100-250 locs. There is the reaction second, targeting, then draw the bow, meanwhile you`re already pa`d.
Could be possible..maybe... if you bind Tab +Face+Bow+Shot via macro to a mouse button, but i`m sure that isn`t allowed here.

One shot is not gonna make a difference it will only make them mad.. lol

1 shot means outta stealth, no pa, no cd. Imo a huge difference.

No its not I promise. You cant go toe to toe as a archer vs a assa in melee lol. You could get the assa to 50% before they in melee range and you still not gonna have a chance rofl.

Sun 10 Mar 2019 1:34 PM by Tillbeast

Speed burst is pretty useless it breaks if anything hits. More often than not you use it and just get hit by an instant random debuff or if you try to escape melee with it the melee detection range is too big and you still get hit. Good idea in principle but not implemented well I game. However not much you can do with this skill else as making you immune to stuff imitates SOS and as much as I would love a 10min SOS I can't see the devs allowing that lol. It would be worth it though just to hear the minstrels whine

You say with vanish you have a chance to escape every 15 minutes and that archers can just disengage. Its true but an archer disengages with zero rp's the assassin vanishes with a chance to escape with whatever rp's his kill gave him. There are far more opportunities for assassins due to there high front loaded damage to kill a straggler and escape without using vanish, watch Dante or Stranded on there streams if you don't believe me. It would be great if my hunter could target a straggler and kill it in 2 or 3 shots but that is not possible for several reasons...1) Our dps is just not high enough....2) all it takes is a qc spell to disrupt us....3)they run out of range as firing a bow not exactly quick. An assassin can do this just by stunning and snaring after purge.

On a normal server I would agree with you that assassins stealth detection should be slightly better but this is a custom server with very different rvr dynamics and you need to adjust some classes to fit. Archers have lost far to many toys to survive being in close proximity to assassins.

Sun 10 Mar 2019 2:56 PM by AngelRose

Cirath wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Mar 2019 11:44 AM
AngelRose wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Mar 2019 5:49 AM
Some pretty dumb comments from sins.

1, The only way a crit shot can be pre-loaded is if your are standing still. Guess hunters are to just stand in one area, with shot loaded, hoping someone runs into range. And lets not forget, hitting crit shot knocks an archer out of stealth a large percentage of the time.
2. Archers are not asking to go toe to toe with sins, just an opportunity to at least see sins coming at same range. If sin is played well, why feel you need that advantage?
3. How the hell is an archer supposed to use 'skilled range' against a target they can't see till it is on top of them.

This skulllz guy breaks down the hunter/archer issue very well. It is worth a read if you missed this thread: https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=5168

Some pretty dumb comments from archers. Are you familiar with the concept of trade offs? You know, that ability you have to engage people with high dps at 2000 units range? keeping yourself out of danger and GREATLY increasing the number of incs you can get? You give up a measly 100 units of stealth detection for that. Seems more than fair to me. For gods sake its not like people are seeing you at clip range like the old see hidden days. 250 units in the open field is NOTHING...

Yeah...you clearly play a sin. Your comments are pretty much "I don't want to lose MY advantage'. You can kill archers in melee almost all the time, why do you need to be able to see them earlier then they see you? Why do you need the 100 units, when you already have superior melee options? We each have different trade offs when it comes to fighting visi's. This conversation has nothing to do with that, but the total imbalance between archers and sins.

Besides the "I need my advantage", I haven't read a single justification that makes sense and I hope dev's are looking into the state of current archers. Hunters currently are the 4th least played class on the server.

Sun 10 Mar 2019 3:17 PM by Varano

Quick question. Does Penetrating Arrow even penetrate caster blade-turn? I've heard it doesn't. If not that's a huge problem that should be fixed right there.
Also the fact that they have literally 0 defensive RA's is ridiculous.

Sun 10 Mar 2019 3:56 PM by bigdaddyo

penetrating arrow only has a chance to penetrate PULSING bladeturns. not self-casted bubbles. useless. would be a nice custom change to allow it to have a chance to pop self BTs at 30 archery spec (Penetrating arrow 1), higher chance at 40 (PA2) and maybe add 100% chance new PA3 at 50? You are basically giving up any semblance of having a chance against assassins and a lot of other classes to be a glass cannon caster killer at that spec anyway.

Sun 10 Mar 2019 4:28 PM by jdaoc

Cirath wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Mar 2019 11:44 AM
AngelRose wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Mar 2019 5:49 AM
Some pretty dumb comments from sins.

1, The only way a crit shot can be pre-loaded is if your are standing still. Guess hunters are to just stand in one area, with shot loaded, hoping someone runs into range. And lets not forget, hitting crit shot knocks an archer out of stealth a large percentage of the time.
2. Archers are not asking to go toe to toe with sins, just an opportunity to at least see sins coming at same range. If sin is played well, why feel you need that advantage?
3. How the hell is an archer supposed to use 'skilled range' against a target they can't see till it is on top of them.

This skulllz guy breaks down the hunter/archer issue very well. It is worth a read if you missed this thread: https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=5168

Some pretty dumb comments from archers. Are you familiar with the concept of trade offs? You know, that ability you have to engage people with high dps at 2000 units range? keeping yourself out of danger and GREATLY increasing the number of incs you can get? You give up a measly 100 units of stealth detection for that. Seems more than fair to me. For gods sake its not like people are seeing you at clip range like the old see hidden days. 250 units in the open field is NOTHING...

Sure, it seems fair to all assassins but i assure you its not. If you think the extra 125 units of detection assassins get is "NOTHING" then you wont mind if the developers of Phoenix remove that advantage from assassins and make it the same for both classes.

Sun 10 Mar 2019 4:32 PM by jdaoc

Cirath wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Mar 2019 11:37 AM
krycek wrote: ↑
Fri 8 Mar 2019 9:51 PM
Honestly the detection rate doesn't feel any different for me when finding other assassins and archers. If I'm moving most of the time archers will just poof up right in front of me the same way assassins do. Maybe when we're both just standing still in the same area you can spot them farther, dunno. I've had hunters get the drop on me from stealth pretty often.

Also it seems pretty balanced when archers can engage from the safety of bow range that they have a small penalty vs assassins while stealthed.

100% THIS. Why should archers have the same safety in stealth as assasins when archers can engage with high dps at 2000 units without getting their hands dirty? 250 units is still a SMALL detection range, especially when both parties are moving. The assasin needs to get in melee, get their hands dirty and put themselves at risk. The archer just sits back at a safe distance and pewpewpew leeches rps off other peoples fights...

Look here is another one saying " its nothing, its a small advantage" so you also wont mind if developers remove that advantage from assassins and make the game fair to both classes. Also dont be jealous of an archers range... assassin can poison his weapons , use viper RA, vanish RA , climb walls... you dont see archers complaining about that stuff, only assassins complaining archer has range lol

Sun 10 Mar 2019 4:37 PM by jdaoc

Kronin wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Mar 2019 1:32 PM
jdaoc wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Mar 2019 5:00 AM
Kronin wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Mar 2019 12:40 AM
I played ranger in beta before the free rr5. I was almost rr6 with them when the auto rr5 was put in. Only class really gave me problems was shield tanks and I had to kite them away to kill.

Sure assa can see archers from farther it should be that way. Always had been that way in daoc. (I played scout this patch lvl up past toa so I know that it was without a doubt) I feel like camo should be in the game though for archers I do not disagree with this.

First of all this is not beta anymore, its not the same. Second of all do you even realize why Mythic gave archers camo and MoS in the first place? Its because for a long time assassins were raping all archers with complete 100% impunity , getting guaranteed perfs and wins every time. Mythic finally realized this and made the necessary changes to even the playing field. So no, assassins should not be able to see archers at longer range nor should they get a default win vs an archer in melee if that archer is speced in melee to defend himself. That is utterly ridiculous.

Really? This isn't beta anymore. WOW I had no freaking clue thanks for the heads up......The point is during beta when I played a ranger the archer nerfs was already in lol try again dude. AGAIN I think camo should be in the game for archers. NO TS though TS was lame.

Tray again? Not sure what you mean as i wasnt "trying" anything. Just pointing out that this is not beta so stop comparing beta archer play to current archer play. I agree with you about camo and true sight. True sight can be nasty for all stealthers if a 8 man has a guy using it at the mile gates every cooldown .

Sun 10 Mar 2019 4:42 PM by Sepplord

jdaoc wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Mar 2019 4:32 PM
Cirath wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Mar 2019 11:37 AM
krycek wrote: ↑
Fri 8 Mar 2019 9:51 PM
Honestly the detection rate doesn't feel any different for me when finding other assassins and archers. If I'm moving most of the time archers will just poof up right in front of me the same way assassins do. Maybe when we're both just standing still in the same area you can spot them farther, dunno. I've had hunters get the drop on me from stealth pretty often.

Also it seems pretty balanced when archers can engage from the safety of bow range that they have a small penalty vs assassins while stealthed.

100% THIS. Why should archers have the same safety in stealth as assasins when archers can engage with high dps at 2000 units without getting their hands dirty? 250 units is still a SMALL detection range, especially when both parties are moving. The assasin needs to get in melee, get their hands dirty and put themselves at risk. The archer just sits back at a safe distance and pewpewpew leeches rps off other peoples fights...

Look here is another one saying " its nothing, its a small advantage" so you also wont mind if developers remove that advantage from assassins and make the game fair to both classes. Also dont be jealous of an archers range... assassin can poison his weapons , use viper RA, vanish RA , climb walls... you dont see archers complaining about that stuff, only assassins complaining archer has range lol

Making up things again?
Care to Link any of the threads where assassins a re whining about archers?
And no whines about envenom and Vanish happening?

You need to stop taking every post in the worst way possible

Sun 10 Mar 2019 5:53 PM by jdaoc

Sepplord just go away, you bring nothing to the conversation except a biased hatred of the archer class like a few others here. There is no point in debating with you..Stop showing up in every archer thread just like you did on Uthgard and trying to derail the thread or trying to convince everyone that archers are OP lol. You making yourself look dumb.

(edit) No need to link anything - if you would pay attention to the thread you are posting in you would see assassins in this very thread whining about archers.

Sun 10 Mar 2019 6:01 PM by Sepplord

jdaoc wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Mar 2019 5:53 PM
Sepplord just go away, you bring nothing to the conversation except a biased hatred of the archer class like a few others here. There is no point in debating with you..Stop showing up in every archer thread just like you did on Uthgard and trying to derail the thread or trying to convince everyone that archers are OP lol. You making yourself look dumb.

(edit) No need to link anything - if you would pay attention to the thread you are posting in you would see assassins in this very thread whining about archers.

I'll assume that means you do not want to provide proof.

Again, i havent played in uthgard besides levelling a sorc to 39 Abs giving up.

And me wanting camoflage and higher benefits in bow spec 35+ surely shows my archer hatred.

All you do is spreading lies, and repeating them when getting called out. And if you had wanted me to leave you shouldnt have started lieing about me personally, now you have my attention and when in doubt i will now call you out instead of just rolling my eyes, like before

Sun 10 Mar 2019 6:27 PM by stinsfire

I find it worrying that Devs seem to ignore all archer topics for now....

Archery needs to be reworked so putting more points into it gives higher dmg. And on top of that give Scouts something additional in archery line (maybe free longshot so he has more points to spend in ra?) and make BC/PF worth speccing into. All the selfbuffs become obsolete because of potions and charges so all you get for dumping hundreds of points into this line is either getting the objectively worst pet in the game or a dmg add.

Sun 10 Mar 2019 6:41 PM by Cirath

Again, noneone has bothered to explain how a class that can do damage at range having the same detection distance as a class that has to do damage in melee is balanced? Do you want to roam thd frontiers ganking at will with impunity? I have and do play a bunch of different classes, including archers so can see the issue from several points of vew, unlike some of the biased, permanently whining Legolas wannabes here

Sun 10 Mar 2019 6:54 PM by AngelRose

I think the bow damage is just fine. Archers just need a minor tweak to stealth detection, and hunter pet could use minor tweak as well - either speed or a cc.

Sun 10 Mar 2019 7:32 PM by stinsfire

AngelRose wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Mar 2019 6:54 PM
I think the bow damage is just fine. Archers just need a minor tweak to stealth detection, and hunter pet could use minor tweak as well - either speed or a cc.

Damage difference between 35 and 50 is 10-20dmg.. That is not how it is supposed to be. I agree on the hunter pet tho

Sun 10 Mar 2019 8:41 PM by relvinian

Vanish destroyed you.

Sun 10 Mar 2019 8:46 PM by Stoertebecker

Kronin wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Mar 2019 1:33 PM
Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Mar 2019 5:32 AM
Kronin wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Mar 2019 12:48 AM
One shot is not gonna make a difference it will only make them mad.. lol

1 shot means outta stealth, no pa, no cd. Imo a huge difference.

No its not I promise. You cant go toe to toe as a archer vs a assa in melee lol. You could get the assa to 50% before they in melee range and you still not gonna have a chance rofl.

Pfffft, expect a handful skilled assassins i ate them alive on my Hybrid-speced Ranger on Gareth and on Live.

All useful tools that an archer had to survive were stripped off on Phoenix, even the bow damage table is modificated.

Sun 10 Mar 2019 9:16 PM by jdaoc

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Mar 2019 6:01 PM
jdaoc wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Mar 2019 5:53 PM
Sepplord just go away, you bring nothing to the conversation except a biased hatred of the archer class like a few others here. There is no point in debating with you..Stop showing up in every archer thread just like you did on Uthgard and trying to derail the thread or trying to convince everyone that archers are OP lol. You making yourself look dumb.

(edit) No need to link anything - if you would pay attention to the thread you are posting in you would see assassins in this very thread whining about archers.

I'll assume that means you do not want to provide proof.

Again, i havent played in uthgard besides levelling a sorc to 39 Abs giving up.

And me wanting camoflage and higher benefits in bow spec 35+ surely shows my archer hatred.

All you do is spreading lies, and repeating them when getting called out. And if you had wanted me to leave you shouldnt have started lieing about me personally, now you have my attention and when in doubt i will now call you out instead of just rolling my eyes, like before

you must be slow in the head , i told you to read the thread if you want to see evidence of assassins whining. Thats it end of story. Do it or go away. You are not calling me out on anything lol what a laugh you are. Saying "assassins got nerfed now thats a buff to archers" is the dumbest thing i ever saw. You completely ignore the facts i laid out proving archers have been custom nerfed on this server to be RP food for assassins. I didnt lie about you , you pop up in every archer discussion thread here and on Uthgard crying that archers need no change. I outlined 5 things and if you can not bother to pay any attention to the thread its only proof you are here to derail it like i said. Get lost kid, you are a joke. And you trying to counter me is an even bigger joke lol.

Sun 10 Mar 2019 9:23 PM by jdaoc

Cirath wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Mar 2019 6:41 PM
Again, noneone has bothered to explain how a class that can do damage at range having the same detection distance as a class that has to do damage in melee is balanced? Do you want to roam thd frontiers ganking at will with impunity? I have and do play a bunch of different classes, including archers so can see the issue from several points of vew, unlike some of the biased, permanently whining Legolas wannabes here

OK then by your logic how is it fair that archers can not climb walls, use poison , vanish ect... ? You really seem upset you dont get to use a bow as an assassin , well then go play your archer then .... if you really have one that is....

Sun 10 Mar 2019 9:29 PM by Sepplord

jdaoc wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Mar 2019 9:16 PM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Mar 2019 6:01 PM
jdaoc wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Mar 2019 5:53 PM
Sepplord just go away, you bring nothing to the conversation except a biased hatred of the archer class like a few others here. There is no point in debating with you..Stop showing up in every archer thread just like you did on Uthgard and trying to derail the thread or trying to convince everyone that archers are OP lol. You making yourself look dumb.

(edit) No need to link anything - if you would pay attention to the thread you are posting in you would see assassins in this very thread whining about archers.

I'll assume that means you do not want to provide proof.

Again, i havent played in uthgard besides levelling a sorc to 39 Abs giving up.

And me wanting camoflage and higher benefits in bow spec 35+ surely shows my archer hatred.

All you do is spreading lies, and repeating them when getting called out. And if you had wanted me to leave you shouldnt have started lieing about me personally, now you have my attention and when in doubt i will now call you out instead of just rolling my eyes, like before

you must be slow in the head , i told you to read the thread if you want to see evidence of assassins whining. Thats it end of story. Do it or go away. You are not calling me out on anything lol what a laugh you are. Saying "assassins got nerfed now thats a buff to archers" is the dumbest thing i ever saw. You completely ignore the facts i laid out proving archers have been custom nerfed on this server to be RP food for assassins. I didnt lie about you , you pop up in every archer discussion thread here and on Uthgard crying that archers need no change. I outlined 5 things and if you can not bother to pay any attention to the thread its only proof you are here to derail it like i said. Get lost kid, you are a joke. And you trying to counter me is an even bigger joke lol.

I am still waiting on info who i am supposed to be on uthgard, i actually checked back if i had commented on an archer Topic but i have only a handful of comments in my profile...
And since you seem so obsessed that i Pop up in archer Threads here... I Pop up in basically ALL Threads on this forum, usually when someone isnt making sense or going overboard, or just to make a joke or help someone.

You also called me personally butthurt and whining, apparently because of a change that has gotten only positive feedback by me on this forum.

If you know me and my postings so much you would know that i have said camoflage should be added back in multiple tines and that speccing bow35+ needs incentives because it is currently lacking. You have even quoted me writing that yet fail to ackknowledge the cobtradiction to your POV

My point still stands, One of the main demands (besides reasonable bowbuffs) made by some archers here is that they want buffs specifically in the melee-matchup archerVSassassin. And that matchup has just gotten a huge change. So it is only reasonable to check the new status quo

Sun 10 Mar 2019 9:32 PM by Sepplord

jdaoc wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Mar 2019 9:23 PM
Cirath wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Mar 2019 6:41 PM
Again, noneone has bothered to explain how a class that can do damage at range having the same detection distance as a class that has to do damage in melee is balanced? Do you want to roam thd frontiers ganking at will with impunity? I have and do play a bunch of different classes, including archers so can see the issue from several points of vew, unlike some of the biased, permanently whining Legolas wannabes here

OK then by your logic how is it fair that archers can not climb walls, use poison , vanish ect... ? You really seem upset you dont get to use a bow as an assassin , well then go play your archer then .... if you really have one that is....

Dude, you are projecting so hard. Nowhere does he state he wants to use bows as an assassin. He wants archer to ackknowledge their benefits.

When Assassins start demanding better ranged capabilities so they can shoot archers on a milegate...THEN your comment would make sense. Isn't happening here though...

But Good Job not giving an answer again and just adding bullsh**

Sun 10 Mar 2019 9:37 PM by waffel

Guys, the devs of Phoenix will get to archers sooner or later. But the first order of priority is NS ranged DD damage. They really need to focus on that and make sure all resources are diverted that way. Once that get that straighted out, they can move to infil x-bow damage. THEN they might be able to move onto archers.

Sun 10 Mar 2019 10:51 PM by

gruenesschaf

You all make it sound like it's super obvious on what is the best thing to do and we're just not doing it. There is not a single thing that can be done that's objectively the right thing to do and we're still discussing things.

No camo and slightly higher detection for assassins was offset by no see hidden for assassins. With there still being no detection on anything that camo would counter there is still no point in having camo.
MoS without detection kind of is a remnant from before the switch to NF RAs but having MoS with detection range is something that would make MoS bots a thing, not really sure if that combined with MG choke points would be something desirable.
No PD on archers is mostly sensible, all stealther are on the same damage table (except scouts, they are one higher but forced to use 1h) with archers having the better armor, worse evade and obviously no poison but access to IP. Given the really different performance of the archers in melee it could potentially be fine on hunter or scouts but would be entirely too much on ranger and having this difference in RAs between the realms would kind of go against the RA setting.
The balance between a single caster and a single archer is just weird given the interrupt mechanic and making penetrating arrow penetrate self casted bubble would not change the weirdness but just kind of turn it around by making it a lot more likely that the caster will die before QC rupt goes through.
The crit shot restriction we now have in place negatively affects scouts vs melees without purge the most but is a net positive in all other cases for a single archer.

It's fine to say that it makes no sense that archery over 52 doesn't noticeably affect damage but it is not fine to say the damage is supposed to increase more than it does. Look at spec suggestions from way back when and you'll find comments pointing out that archery over 35 / 40 is usually pointless. Nothing really points towards old archery mechanics being different from normal unstyled attacks where spec over enemy level + 2 has no effect other than defense penetration (or in case of 2h a very minor additional increase).
Changing this, for example by adding a scaling bonus/penalty ranging from 50% at 1 spec to 125% at 70 spec and 100% (of the current value) being at 50 modified spec, is a potential change but we're not entirely sure if such a flat bow damage increase really something that's needed.

We're not really happy there is pretty much no point in speccing more than 35 archery but it's just not clear if adding new things like uninterruptible shots with reduced damage or root / snares is something sensible.

Sun 10 Mar 2019 10:58 PM by keen

Strip stealth from minstrel and make mirrored stealth classes for each realm would be the best in my opinion.
Makes it much easier to scale for rvr, and noone to cry for the other realm having an unfair advantage somehow.

We already have to many classes to balance. Keep it simple in stealth game where most ppl want to have 1v1 anyway.

Sun 10 Mar 2019 11:31 PM by Cadebrennus

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Mar 2019 10:51 PM
You all make it sound like it's super obvious on what is the best thing to do and we're just not doing it. There is not a single thing that can be done that's objectively the right thing to do and we're still discussing things.

No camo and slightly higher detection for assassins was offset by no see hidden for assassins. With there still being no detection on anything that camo would counter there is still no point in having camo.
MoS without detection kind of is a remnant from before the switch to NF RAs but having MoS with detection range is something that would make MoS bots a thing, not really sure if that combined with MG choke points would be something desirable.
No PD on archers is mostly sensible, all stealther are on the same damage table (except scouts, they are one higher but forced to use 1h) with archers having the better armor, worse evade and obviously no poison but access to IP. Given the really different performance of the archers in melee it could potentially be fine on hunter or scouts but would be entirely too much on ranger and having this difference in RAs between the realms would kind of go against the RA setting.
The balance between a single caster and a single archer is just weird given the interrupt mechanic and making penetrating arrow penetrate self casted bubble would not change the weirdness but just kind of turn it around by making it a lot more likely that the caster will die before QC rupt goes through.
The crit shot restriction we now have in place negatively affects scouts vs melees without purge the most but is a net positive in all other cases for a single archer.

It's fine to say that it makes no sense that archery over 52 doesn't noticeably affect damage but it is not fine to say the damage is supposed to increase more than it does. Look at spec suggestions from way back when and you'll find comments pointing out that archery over 35 / 40 is usually pointless. Nothing really points towards old archery mechanics being different from normal unstyled attacks where spec over enemy level + 2 has no effect other than defense penetration (or in case of 2h a very minor additional increase).
Changing this, for example by adding a scaling bonus/penalty ranging from 50% at 1 spec to 125% at 70 spec and 100% (of the current value) being at 50 modified spec, is a potential change but we're not entirely sure if such a flat bow damage increase really something that's needed.

We're not really happy there is pretty much no point in speccing more than 35 archery but it's just not clear if adding new things like uninterruptible shots with reduced damage or root / snares is something sensible.

What I can't believe is that you think that Hunter melee is somehow less than Ranger melee. You are a programmer. You should know the values of equitable speccing between the classes.

I and others did independent testing on specs and showed that Melee Hunters = Rangers, and that 1h is equal across all three realms Archers.

Seeing your post, I understand so much about what went wrong with this server.

Sun 10 Mar 2019 11:41 PM by

gruenesschaf

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Mar 2019 11:31 PM
What I can't believe is that you think that Hunter melee is somehow less than Ranger melee. You are a programmer. You should know the values of equitable speccing between the classes.

I and others did independent testing on specs and showed that Melee Hunters = Rangers, and that 1h is equal across all three realms Archers.

Seeing your post, I understand so much about what went wrong with this server.

Belive it or not but the DW bonus against evade actually factors into archer vs assassin. And why would you think it necessary to point out that 1h damage is equal for the 3 archers, it's even equal between archers and assassins, that's what being on the same damage table means but scout should actually be very slightly higher here as they are on 19 instead of 18. There is however still a big difference between dw, 2h and 1h + shield either for the raw damage output, which would be dw > 2h >> 1h, or the mechanics wrt defense penetration / extra bonus against certain types of defense.

Mon 11 Mar 2019 1:13 AM by jdaoc

Looks like we will have to go to different server to get fair archer play. To be honest i experienced so many broken formulas on this server already that there is little hope this server will become accurate to real DAOC. I thank the staff for responding and for trying to host the server. Good luck.

Mon 11 Mar 2019 1:33 AM by Victos

jdaoc wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Mar 2019 1:13 AM
Looks like we will have to go to different server to get fair archer play. To be honest i experienced so many broken formulas on this server already that there is little hope this server will become accurate to real DAOC. I thank the staff for responding and for trying to host the server. Good luck.

Did you also report those "wrong formulae" including data that shows they're wrong and how they're supposed to be so the staff is able to fix them?

And what even is "real daoc"? You mean real as in 1.65? 1.87? 1.121? DAoC itself changed so much over the course of it's life that "real daoc" doesn't even say much.

This server so far seems to try to bring a version of DAoC to the players that's actually accessible by new people by providing QoL changes and core changes. If this server was straight up 1.65 it would probably be dead by now.

So I would suggest to report those wrong formulae, prove they're wrong and see them fixed. (That's what happened with the CS line I think, PA scaling was wrong, it was reported, it got noticed and changed)

Mon 11 Mar 2019 1:39 AM by Fooj Fujiyama

Is the guy with the green name a dev? So there is no buffs coming for archers? As far as I can tell assassins have been clearly boosted here and no love for archers? Seems like this stuff coulda been figured out before launch. If they do give archers love most of the asssassins are gonna be rr6+ already by the time that happens. Just dump detect hidden, archers aren't even that OP these days, definitely something that didn't and doesn't need to exist in this game.

Mon 11 Mar 2019 1:47 AM by krycek

jdaoc wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Mar 2019 1:13 AM
Looks like we will have to go to different server to get fair archer play. To be honest i experienced so many broken formulas on this server already that there is little hope this server will become accurate to real DAOC. I thank the staff for responding and for trying to host the server. Good luck.

Mon 11 Mar 2019 1:53 AM by Fooj Fujiyama

We shouldn't be encouraging people to leave when they feel like their class is in the dumpster. They did very nice custom changes for many classes but archers are in a dumpster state. Have to spec 50 composite stealth and you get punished for it, while assassins get a get out of jail card every 15 minutes so they can easily farm rps without much risk. Also the fact that it's very hard to gank due to the massive amount of visibiles always running around in rvr. Give archers a break we aren't even that OP compared to when the game came out now that everybody has perfect temps and easy charges/potions. Detect hidden has no place on this server where assassins are already very powerful.

Mon 11 Mar 2019 2:04 AM by jdaoc

krycek wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Mar 2019 1:47 AM
jdaoc wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Mar 2019 1:13 AM
Looks like we will have to go to different server to get fair archer play. To be honest i experienced so many broken formulas on this server already that there is little hope this server will become accurate to real DAOC. I thank the staff for responding and for trying to host the server. Good luck.

Good riddance

Try not to slip on your tears - and try something original next time instead of copying a meme you saw someone else post somewhere lol

Mon 11 Mar 2019 2:37 AM by krycek

jdaoc wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Mar 2019 2:04 AM
krycek wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Mar 2019 1:47 AM
jdaoc wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Mar 2019 1:13 AM
Looks like we will have to go to different server to get fair archer play. To be honest i experienced so many broken formulas on this server already that there is little hope this server will become accurate to real DAOC. I thank the staff for responding and for trying to host the server. Good luck.

Good riddance Try not to slip on your tears - and try something original next time instead of copying a meme you saw someone else post somewhere lol

Mon 11 Mar 2019 2:41 AM by yasow

Locked for now.