Graph of performance of classes in RvR

https://imgur.com/a/IQILkfn?

This is just a graph of the total number of RR5s of each class on the server atm (March2019)

You can see speed classes doing great, hybrids really struggling. This is obviously noticeable whilst playing but a nice graph always help to hammer the point home.

Tue 5 Mar 2019 4:49 PM by Relidar

Good share, thank you!

Let's hope the discussion gets interesting and constructive now.

Tue 5 Mar 2019 5:11 PM by BisbyHoughton

Pushing hard to be one of 10 RR5+ friars lol

Tue 5 Mar 2019 6:12 PM by Blitze

Haha yea trying to be the 9th or 10th RR5 friar, I have long way to go at 4l2..

Tue 5 Mar 2019 6:23 PM by Cadebrennus

Blitze wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Mar 2019 4:37 PM
https://imgur.com/a/IQILkfn?

This is just a graph of the total number of RR5s of each class on the server atm (March2019)

You can see speed classes doing great, hybrids really struggling. This is obviously noticeable whilst playing but a nice graph always help to hammer the point home.

Excellent post. Thank you for sharing data.

One comment though, and it isn't your fault. Technically yes, Minstrels are a stealther class, but for data measurement wouldn't they be a speed class? They are required in 8mans/zergs just like Skalds/Bards so that's one of the reasons they have so many RPs compared to other stealthers. The data seems skewed because of this.

Tue 5 Mar 2019 6:49 PM by Foofmonger

Not sure performance is the word you want to use here, this is more indicative of "prevalence", i.e. how many/how often, but not performance which you can't measure in terms of RR.

Very cool data points to put on a graph here though. My thoughts based on the data + my own experiences:

1. Skalds are overtuned with det on this server, and mid having access to det 9 on their speed class is probably just too strong in general.
2. Alb melee really is not in a good place at the moment overall. Maybe its not due to balance (I think it probably is), but they certainly aren't prevalent.
3. Hybrids having low levels of prevalence is not shocking, they've always been more or less the least played classes in DAoC.
4. Special shout out to that Alb Melee Hybrid (Friar) which due to points 2/3 above nobody seems to play.

That's about it tbh.

Tue 5 Mar 2019 6:53 PM by Tiesto422

Gotta have speed and heals

Tue 5 Mar 2019 6:57 PM by Ashenspire

Alb Melee is very strong, just horribly underutilized in Phoenix. Unfortunately the entire realm has a hard on for cabalists for some reason.

Reaver and Valewalker are slept on in their perspective realms. Giving them Det is bonkers. If they ever update VW styles to what they should be, they'd be absolute monsters.

Tue 5 Mar 2019 9:22 PM by Luluko

no idea why bms are almost twice as common as mercs both are great... guess albs love their debuff trains too much...

Tue 5 Mar 2019 9:27 PM by sprinkle

I hit rr5 today wohoo ! ( im runemaster )

very sad to see so few rr5 ( I think too many people are wasting WAY too much time pveing )

Tue 5 Mar 2019 9:44 PM by Ganil

The drop between caba and theurg is funny ^^.
It's curvy and then BAM !

Tue 5 Mar 2019 10:14 PM by Miscanthus

Poor friars...

Tue 5 Mar 2019 10:21 PM by Cen

This chart could use a per capita graph though. I notice that Sorcerers and Eldritches, while massively underpopulated compared to enchanters, are just a hair below them. It seems that along with Bard, those three classes are the highest performing per person, i.e., there's more high ranked sorcerers across the whole population of them based on the average /serverinfo counts for those classes.

Paladins and Wizards seem to be a travesty per capita. There's way more wizards and Paladins then good Wizards and Paladins ;p

Even Friar and Champion aren't so bad off, even being as low as they are on this graph.. they perform so well for their population.

Tue 5 Mar 2019 10:40 PM by Pops999

sprinkle wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Mar 2019 9:27 PM
I hit rr5 today wohoo ! ( im runemaster )

very sad to see so few rr5 ( I think too many people are wasting WAY too much time pveing )

Aren't you the one who wants to turn off tasks? Pfft.

Tue 5 Mar 2019 10:44 PM by Salviati

I'm a hybrid (Paladin) main and it's all I really want to play. I've just straight up quit the server and check in once every 5 days now to look for the devs to show an understanding of the domino effect of problems. But even my interest in that is waning.

I think the combination of that and the game is just old and played out for me create a sense of just being tired with the experience overall. The devs could help with that, but only to a point. But they haven't really even hinted at an appreciation or understanding of the problems. It's just not fun or worth my time.

On a bright side, I just got my backing refund from Camelot Unchained. I give up on that. I don't think I can handle anymore Mark Jacobs designs in my life.

Tue 5 Mar 2019 10:45 PM by Pops999

Salviati wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Mar 2019 10:44 PM
I'm a hybrid (Paladin) main and it's all I really want to play. I've just straight up quit the server and check in once every 5 days now to look for the devs to show an understanding of the domino effect of problems. But even my interest in that is waning.

I think the combination of that and the game is just old and played out for me create a sense of just being tired with the experience overall. The devs could help with that, but only to a point. But they haven't really even hinted at an appreciation or understanding of the problems. It's just not fun or worth my time.

On a bright side, I just got my backing refund from Camelot Unchained. I give up on that. I don't think I can handle anymore Mark Jacobs designs in my life.

It cant be that bad, can it?

Tue 5 Mar 2019 10:53 PM by Salviati

Pops999 wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Mar 2019 10:45 PM
Salviati wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Mar 2019 10:44 PM
I'm a hybrid (Paladin) main and it's all I really want to play. I've just straight up quit the server and check in once every 5 days now to look for the devs to show an understanding of the domino effect of problems. But even my interest in that is waning.

I think the combination of that and the game is just old and played out for me create a sense of just being tired with the experience overall. The devs could help with that, but only to a point. But they haven't really even hinted at an appreciation or understanding of the problems. It's just not fun or worth my time.

On a bright side, I just got my backing refund from Camelot Unchained. I give up on that. I don't think I can handle anymore Mark Jacobs designs in my life.

It cant be that bad, can it?

I had backed almost $300. So you tell me. I'm just older, and tired and my tolerance for BS is much less and it was never great to begin with. Half of it is me, I recognize that. But the other half is a blend of DAoC and Phoenix's presentation of DAoC. I thought I would join the server, find a few like minded players to play with, run an 8 man when we're together and solo when we're not.

When I'm solo all I run into is trash with viper/vanish/purge with overwhelming offense and the ability to choose and escape any fight. Or I get steamrolled by a zerg or the ever-1337 bm/bm/bard trio. I've gotten literally 2 decent groups since joining. That seems to be the case for most everyone but a couple of guild groups out there. The difference is, everyone seems to be okay with that or being some anonymouse/faceless cog in a zerg whose greatest contribution is breaking cc and giving enemies free immunity timers.

For me it is that bad. But I understand there are a couple thousand out there who love their mindless experience and want nothing more. Despite that and my contempt for such people on an existential level, I hope Phoenix does well nonetheless. People put some effort into this project, even if it was blown up by stupid drama in the beginning.

Tue 5 Mar 2019 10:55 PM by Pops999

Salviati wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Mar 2019 10:53 PM
Pops999 wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Mar 2019 10:45 PM
Salviati wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Mar 2019 10:44 PM
I'm a hybrid (Paladin) main and it's all I really want to play. I've just straight up quit the server and check in once every 5 days now to look for the devs to show an understanding of the domino effect of problems. But even my interest in that is waning.

I think the combination of that and the game is just old and played out for me create a sense of just being tired with the experience overall. The devs could help with that, but only to a point. But they haven't really even hinted at an appreciation or understanding of the problems. It's just not fun or worth my time.

On a bright side, I just got my backing refund from Camelot Unchained. I give up on that. I don't think I can handle anymore Mark Jacobs designs in my life.

It cant be that bad, can it?

I had backed almost $300. So you tell me.

LOL. 300 bucks?

Tue 5 Mar 2019 10:57 PM by antiflagdan

From my perspective on Alb, there have been so many wizards out and about. I only notice fire wizzies because of the super obvious firey bolts flying out. Turns out, none of them are rr5+! I am super shocked how low rr they are. Must be taking too many dirt naps before getting spells off ^_^. We die super easy!

Tue 5 Mar 2019 11:01 PM by Afuldan

antiflagdan wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Mar 2019 10:57 PM
From my perspective on Alb, there have been so many wizards out and about. I only notice fire wizzies because of the super obvious firey bolts flying out. Turns out, none of them are rr5+! I am super shocked how low rr they are. Must be taking too many dirt naps before getting spells off ^_^. We die super easy!

PBAoE makes them desirable for PvE farming, but GL finding a group for them in RvR.

Tue 5 Mar 2019 11:04 PM by antiflagdan

Afuldan wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Mar 2019 11:01 PM
antiflagdan wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Mar 2019 10:57 PM
From my perspective on Alb, there have been so many wizards out and about. I only notice fire wizzies because of the super obvious firey bolts flying out. Turns out, none of them are rr5+! I am super shocked how low rr they are. Must be taking too many dirt naps before getting spells off ^_^. We die super easy!

PBAoE makes them desirable for PvE farming, but GL finding a group for them in RvR.

I did notice most of them run without speed, so... you could be right. However, the way the rvr system is currently, a lot of people don't bother grouping and just suicide themselves on enemies and rinse repeat for bonuses. I thankfully have a guild to run with but you could be right about people who want to PUG.

Fri 8 Mar 2019 1:28 PM by Sei

This graph means litterally nothing.

The only way you could try yo measure a class performance in rvr would be to have the average RP/hour while one player is active in rvr. Unfortunately it is not an available data.

Fri 8 Mar 2019 2:34 PM by Blitze

Sei..

I do not think the graph means nothing and it is nonsense to suggest that the ONLY way to measure RvR performance is by RP per hour... multiple ways of measuring performance exist.

These graphs perhaps “dumb down or simplify” lots of data (which was the aim) but that is because of the holistic nature of gaining RPs & RRs.

Overall, the graphs do show performance because the number of people playing classes at greater than RR5 (already) indicates that the classes are either very popular or very efficient at gaining RRs (or both e.g. Skalds, which are regularly the most populous class online).

Fri 8 Mar 2019 4:21 PM by DinoTriz

Surprised there are more high ranked Scouts than Hunters...

Also, what's the deal with Blademasters?

Fri 8 Mar 2019 5:27 PM by sprinkle

its not a performance graph just a graph that shows how much certain classes are RVRing and how so few are above RR5

RVR in general is down about 70% from a week ago and I estimate less then 100 players will see RR7 before server dies.

Fri 8 Mar 2019 5:40 PM by worldknown

sprinkle wrote: ↑
Fri 8 Mar 2019 5:27 PM
its not a performance graph just a graph that shows how much certain classes are RVRing and how so few are above RR5

RVR in general is down about 70% from a week ago and I estimate less then 100 players will see RR7 before server dies.

Why the negativity?

Sat 9 Mar 2019 4:59 AM by waffel

RvR is in a real weird place. Keeps are never defended and rarely attacked, which is sad because that’s the most interesting point of the realms. Mile gate standoffs are gone. Zergs running around with any idea of assemblance are gone, now they just run to some flags and stand around, or in circles. 8mans zip around and gank 2-3man groups but avoid anything more than that, or my new favorite is to run from enemy flag to enemy flag never taking the flag but coming down hills once a few people port in to farm RPs. Stealthers group up or sit between mile gates and PKs and take turns being the first to slam solo players.

Overall it’s degenerated and I feel more and more players are getting frustrated with it, which explains the drop off in RvR action. Probably explains why so many people would rather PvE

Sat 9 Mar 2019 5:57 AM by teiloh

Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Mar 2019 6:57 PM
Alb Melee is very strong, just horribly underutilized in Phoenix. Unfortunately the entire realm has a hard on for cabalists for some reason.

Reaver and Valewalker are slept on in their perspective realms. Giving them Det is bonkers. If they ever update VW styles to what they should be, they'd be absolute monsters.

Alb melee is nothing special. They would likely be welcomed in Hib/Mid groups where support is much stronger though. Only a Necro on Alb would make Alb melee groups unique and decently strong.

Sat 9 Mar 2019 5:58 AM by teiloh

DinoTriz wrote: ↑
Fri 8 Mar 2019 4:21 PM
Surprised there are more high ranked Scouts than Hunters...

Also, what's the deal with Blademasters?

Prob helps that Scouts will often see a 20-50% RP bonus.

Sat 9 Mar 2019 10:06 AM by Saerol

Some interesting info in there, thanks for putting it all together and sharing. Not surprised to see Wizard's so low on that list, nor Friars (sadly the first two characters I got to 50 here).

Sat 9 Mar 2019 11:57 AM by Ashenspire

teiloh wrote: ↑
Sat 9 Mar 2019 5:57 AM
Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Mar 2019 6:57 PM
Alb Melee is very strong, just horribly underutilized in Phoenix. Unfortunately the entire realm has a hard on for cabalists for some reason.

Reaver and Valewalker are slept on in their perspective realms. Giving them Det is bonkers. If they ever update VW styles to what they should be, they'd be absolute monsters.

Alb melee is nothing special. They would likely be welcomed in Hib/Mid groups where support is much stronger though. Only a Necro on Alb would make Alb melee groups unique and decently strong.

You keep parroting this. A Reaver does more for the alb melee train than a Necro does.

Sat 9 Mar 2019 12:05 PM by teiloh

Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Sat 9 Mar 2019 11:57 AM
teiloh wrote: ↑
Sat 9 Mar 2019 5:57 AM
Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Mar 2019 6:57 PM
Alb Melee is very strong, just horribly underutilized in Phoenix. Unfortunately the entire realm has a hard on for cabalists for some reason.

Reaver and Valewalker are slept on in their perspective realms. Giving them Det is bonkers. If they ever update VW styles to what they should be, they'd be absolute monsters.

Alb melee is nothing special. They would likely be welcomed in Hib/Mid groups where support is much stronger though. Only a Necro on Alb would make Alb melee groups unique and decently strong.

You keep parroting this. A Reaver does more for the alb melee train than a Necro does.

AF debuff is a few orders of magnitude stronger than a 13% abs debuff. Reaver damage increase is nice, but it's not on the level of something like Celerity. Reavers aren't good enough to make Alb Melee "very strong"

Sat 9 Mar 2019 4:21 PM by sprinkle

alb is all about casters ( and window dragging blanket mez )

Sat 9 Mar 2019 4:25 PM by Afuldan

A high RR Alb tank train is scary. Thank god Albs haven’t figured this out. The tanks will never get high enough RR to become scary.

Sun 10 Mar 2019 7:24 AM by teiloh

Afuldan wrote: ↑
Sat 9 Mar 2019 4:25 PM
A high RR Alb tank train is scary. Thank god Albs haven’t figured this out. The tanks will never get high enough RR to become scary.

How do you figure? Celerity means that a Mid train is going to be doing much more DPS. A Hib train will be better supported.

Mon 11 Mar 2019 2:49 AM by RighteousNuts

I think OP means "Graph of popularity of classes in RvR".

Tue 12 Mar 2019 6:42 PM by PingGuy

sprinkle wrote: ↑
Fri 8 Mar 2019 5:27 PM
RVR in general is down about 70% from a week ago and I estimate less then 100 players will see RR7 before server dies.

Please just stop with the chicken little crap, the sky is not falling. The numbers on the herald don't show any major drop offs recently.

There are currently 209 characters that are R7L0 or above.

Tue 19 Mar 2019 8:25 PM by biGGio

Give Friars the ability get NS cure at the respective mend levels. Same with shamans/wardens. Friar's are the only class of the other two that can spec reasonably into rejuve/enhance and act as a 2nd healer. This would provide more utility to alb groups (which they need).

Wed 20 Mar 2019 2:09 PM by Horus

teiloh wrote: ↑
Sat 9 Mar 2019 5:57 AM
Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Mar 2019 6:57 PM
Alb Melee is very strong, just horribly underutilized in Phoenix. Unfortunately the entire realm has a hard on for cabalists for some reason.

Reaver and Valewalker are slept on in their perspective realms. Giving them Det is bonkers. If they ever update VW styles to what they should be, they'd be absolute monsters.

Alb melee is nothing special. They would likely be welcomed in Hib/Mid groups where support is much stronger though. Only a Necro on Alb would make Alb melee groups unique and decently strong.

Half Ogre pole armsmen are mighty..glad to see Alb had not figured that out