NF Is the answer - Phoenix Freeshard

It's the answer to 8v8
It's the answer for zerg
It's the answer for solo
It's the answer for keep takes

Spend your resources and implement this!

Wed 27 Feb 2019 5:28 AM by Isavyr

I'm enjoying the current setup a lot.

Wed 27 Feb 2019 9:26 PM by tylerforeal

I think it appears unanimous that keep takes/relics and small man/solo is hurting right now. I think there is more opportunity to explore what task systems can do first though, but ultimately I agree that NF is more balanced for the various RvR segments (zerg 8 man small man solo).

Wed 27 Feb 2019 10:55 PM by Dacht

I disagree. If I wanted NF I could play live. I love OF. The teleports and bridge camping killed the game for me. Please do not consider this.

Wed 27 Feb 2019 10:57 PM by pachamos

Dacht Oniel, the ranger?

Wed 27 Feb 2019 11:02 PM by defiasbandit

Dacht wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Feb 2019 10:55 PM
I disagree. If I wanted NF I could play live. I love OF. The teleports and bridge camping killed the game for me. Please do not consider this.

Why is that? What were the downsides to that.

Wed 27 Feb 2019 11:09 PM by cuuchulain79

I'd be happy with NF!

Between that, and trying to make more of the game about keep warfare...sounds good to me

Wed 27 Feb 2019 11:25 PM by teiloh

NF is too big and empty. OF with slightly expanded zones and limited porting or NF with better logistics and restrictions would work.

NF alone killed the game.

Wed 27 Feb 2019 11:39 PM by jhaerik

teiloh wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Feb 2019 11:25 PM
NF is too big and empty. OF with slightly expanded zones and limited porting or NF with better logistics and restrictions would work.

NF alone killed the game.

NF was the best thing that ever happened to DAoC.

OF legit has one non trash zone, and that is Emain. The one zone that feels like NF.

Wed 27 Feb 2019 11:50 PM by teiloh

jhaerik wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Feb 2019 11:39 PM
teiloh wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Feb 2019 11:25 PM
NF is too big and empty. OF with slightly expanded zones and limited porting or NF with better logistics and restrictions would work.

NF alone killed the game.

NF was the best thing that ever happened to DAoC.

OF legit has one non trash zone, and that is Emain. The one zone that feels like NF.

Populations nosedived after NF.

NF was trash. But it was almost good, which is a shame.

Wed 27 Feb 2019 11:59 PM by jg777

I think there is a lot of room to make adjustments and experiment with presently before changing it all up. I’d start with making keeps and relics more worthwhile and see how that influences things. Lowering rewards over-all but creating tasks in more zones, with various objectives- there are ideas yet to experiment with to resolve current complaints/issues in my opinion.

Thu 28 Feb 2019 12:01 AM by Arthur Dayne

Myself and a bunch of people I play have been saying this awhile, that New Frontiers -wasnt- a bad thing and how we wish it was implemented.

Thu 28 Feb 2019 12:15 AM by jhaerik

teiloh wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Feb 2019 11:50 PM
jhaerik wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Feb 2019 11:39 PM
teiloh wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Feb 2019 11:25 PM
NF is too big and empty. OF with slightly expanded zones and limited porting or NF with better logistics and restrictions would work.

NF alone killed the game.

NF was the best thing that ever happened to DAoC.

OF legit has one non trash zone, and that is Emain. The one zone that feels like NF.

Populations nosedived after NF.

NF was trash. But it was almost good, which is a shame.

No populations died because of WoW. Nothing to do with NF.

Thu 28 Feb 2019 12:15 AM by jhaerik

Dacht wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Feb 2019 10:55 PM
I disagree. If I wanted NF I could play live. I love OF. The teleports and bridge camping killed the game for me. Please do not consider this.

Live doesnt have NF anymore my dude... it's NNF now.

Thu 28 Feb 2019 1:02 AM by Dacht

Reasons I prefer OF:

- Harrassing reinforcements running to Odin's/Hadrian's/Emain. I love the fact that people have to leave a borderkeep and run to where the action is. It creates countless opportunities for open field rvr. Teleporting removes a huge portion of rvr that I really find fun.
- There is no water exploiting. Water and underwater combat was a mess.
- Bridge camping.... Even though I was really good at it, it was boring... The same exact experience in all three realms.
- I really enjoy the BK, PK, and Mile fort interactions. Each realm and milefort/PK/BK area is different enough to create options for small man, solo, or grouped play.
- This is not strictly a 1v1 or 8v8 game. It is an RvR game, NF may solve 8v8 or 1v1, but those are easily solvable in OF. Here's how:
- Take your 8v8's to the zone where the task is not active.
- 1v1's can be set up in literally ANY location of people who want to play that way's choosing. This is a non issue.

I DO like the NF keeps, and would be fine with replacing existing keeps with NF keeps.

Otherwise, I think a rework of the task system is all we should be looking at, and I think there are several possible ways to accomplish this.

Thu 28 Feb 2019 6:43 AM by Keeto

Man I'd love to see NF in it's state where it came out, with old bridges and stuff. Was the best time DAoC ever had. And we have the population on the server to enjoy it. Problems with NF come when the population drops.

Thu 28 Feb 2019 10:00 AM by cutcha1

I remember a DAoC Freeshard that had a custom OF, where all 3 Zones were combined to one single map. The zones were connected by additional milegates. But this is probably quite difficult to implement without any realm having disadvantages. The OF maps were a bad design and that is the reason why NF was introduced, giving each realm equal possibilities.

When it comes to OF the action could be split over an entire map like that, giving the players some choices to make (e.g. Alb frontiers):
Hib has Hib PK
Mid has Mid PK
Alb has Benowyc as PK
Hib has also Hurbury(Snowdonia) as PK
Mid has also Renaris(Forest Sauvage) as PK
Alb can enter through Snowdonia Fortress/Castle Sauvage

People would be able to enter the RvR action from different locations and skip milegates if they are tired of getting camped. Sure the relic system would not work this way.

Thu 28 Feb 2019 10:25 AM by Mac

teiloh wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Feb 2019 11:50 PM
jhaerik wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Feb 2019 11:39 PM
teiloh wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Feb 2019 11:25 PM
NF is too big and empty. OF with slightly expanded zones and limited porting or NF with better logistics and restrictions would work.

NF alone killed the game.

NF was the best thing that ever happened to DAoC.

OF legit has one non trash zone, and that is Emain. The one zone that feels like NF.

Populations nosedived after NF.

NF was trash. But it was almost good, which is a shame.

The DAoC population dived when WoW released. Blizzard released WoW after NF but not because of NF, With a sizable player base, as we have here on Phoenix, NF is a better solution than OF with Teleporting.

Thu 28 Feb 2019 10:43 AM by Enrighteous

Mancave wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Feb 2019 4:53 AM
It's the answer to 8v8
It's the answer for zerg
It's the answer for solo
It's the answer for keep takes

Spend your resources and implement this!

I disagree, but I would be okay with taking a mallet to Pennine and pounding it down harder then I do my #^%! on a Friday night. Only complaint with OF.

Thu 28 Feb 2019 11:04 AM by Arkeon

Mac wrote: ↑
Thu 28 Feb 2019 10:25 AM
The DAoC population dived when WoW released. Blizzard released WoW after NF but not because of NF, With a sizable player base, as we have here on Phoenix, NF is a better solution than OF with Teleporting.

Up

Thu 28 Feb 2019 11:50 AM by Sepplord

NF might be an answer, but to a question not being asked.

the assumption that the playerbase stays as big as it is now, if the server switches to NF is just that, an assumption.
Trying it out just cause, also eats a lot of ressources (best case) and worst case makes decisions seem rushed and overturned all the time.
(look at the porting fiasco, they are now in the problematic position that either way they decide, they are pissing of about half their players. If they had kept it out a few would be disgruntled but it was announced from the beginning. No matter what they try out, there will be people liking it, and then angry/dissapointed when it gets taken away. MORE than if it had never been there in the first place.)

And what if the population declines? Switch back to OF? At which threshhold? Populationdependant, or amount of QQ on the forums dependant?
What if population goes up again? Switch back and forth between NF and OF?

IT boggles my mind how many armchair devs know what is best for the game and how to fix everything that is wrong (in their perception).
How many people want things "just tried out, what could happen?" etc...

Thu 28 Feb 2019 12:51 PM by Kyosji

Dacht wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Feb 2019 10:55 PM
I disagree. If I wanted NF I could play live. I love OF. The teleports and bridge camping killed the game for me. Please do not consider this.

Live isn't playing NF....It plays NNF.

Thu 28 Feb 2019 12:55 PM by Kyosji

teiloh wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Feb 2019 11:50 PM
jhaerik wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Feb 2019 11:39 PM
teiloh wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Feb 2019 11:25 PM
NF is too big and empty. OF with slightly expanded zones and limited porting or NF with better logistics and restrictions would work.

NF alone killed the game.

NF was the best thing that ever happened to DAoC.

OF legit has one non trash zone, and that is Emain. The one zone that feels like NF.

Populations nosedived after NF.

NF was trash. But it was almost good, which is a shame.

This is a blatant lie. Population nosedived months after NF started because WoW came out. Bet you believe the population dropped after ToA as well, lol.

Thu 28 Feb 2019 6:42 PM by teiloh

Kyosji wrote: ↑
Thu 28 Feb 2019 12:55 PM
This is a blatant lie. Population nosedived months after NF started because WoW came out. Bet you believe the population dropped after ToA as well, lol.

Pops went up after ToA.

But NF was trash and the game started dying after it came out. It wasn't just WoW. If NF had a way to better focus action, it would have been fine.

Thu 28 Feb 2019 6:59 PM by Kyosji

teiloh wrote: ↑
Thu 28 Feb 2019 6:42 PM
Kyosji wrote: ↑
Thu 28 Feb 2019 12:55 PM
This is a blatant lie. Population nosedived months after NF started because WoW came out. Bet you believe the population dropped after ToA as well, lol.

Pops went up after ToA.

But NF was trash and the game started dying after it came out. It wasn't just WoW. If NF had a way to better focus action, it would have been fine.

Guess we have to agree to disagree on that one.

Fri 1 Mar 2019 7:29 AM by jhaerik

Kyosji wrote: ↑
Thu 28 Feb 2019 6:59 PM
teiloh wrote: ↑
Thu 28 Feb 2019 6:42 PM
Kyosji wrote: ↑
Thu 28 Feb 2019 12:55 PM
This is a blatant lie. Population nosedived months after NF started because WoW came out. Bet you believe the population dropped after ToA as well, lol.

Pops went up after ToA.

But NF was trash and the game started dying after it came out. It wasn't just WoW. If NF had a way to better focus action, it would have been fine.

Guess we have to agree to disagree on that one.

I've yet to agree with the guy... so get used to saying that a lot.

Fri 1 Mar 2019 2:09 PM by Pie172

NF keeps and towers allowed for some of the best pvp siege combat I’ve ever experienced. Currently, I’ve only been apart of a handful of keep takes that involved actual defenders.

Either NF keeps/towers or greatly increase rps or even include feathers for keep defense participation.

Fri 1 Mar 2019 5:07 PM by ibeturgood

I've been saying this since RVR began. Tasks are fucking stupid and this new "fix" that is supposed to split the action in zones made it even worse. There are even bigger zergs NA time than before, big joke.

Fri 1 Mar 2019 5:53 PM by Estat

I remember back then when NF was first introduced I enjoyed it more than OF (after some time spent adjusting). Easier to find the kind of action I wanted (solo, smallman, 8vsX, zerg), more meanigful objectives suited for smaller groups, epic sieges. I always thought the setup on EU classic server (Salisbury) with NF and Agramon was really good behause it was balanced and offered a good experience for many different playstyles.

So yay for NF!

Fri 1 Mar 2019 6:40 PM by Pirhana7

Too many problems with NF, it would need major changes.

I prefer OF, it actually gives the sense of realm pride and needing to protect your lands from invaders.

The only change I would like is NF keeps replacing OF keeps.

Mon 4 Mar 2019 12:10 PM by inoeth

as far as i know of keeps are hard coded into the of enviroment.... so will be hard to get rid of them, also nf keeps are much bigger, they wont fit on those tiny of keep hills.

but

what about adding some towers to OF and make the keeps portable?! so you can port while avoiding ppl to port to the keep when enemys want to raid it (get towers first for interrupt port)
it would also provide action in a specific area while not promoting to camp a spot, since you want to defend the keep or towers and therefore have to move around.

Mon 4 Mar 2019 2:23 PM by Raunz

OF is too small for large population agreed, add toa while you at it tho but make everything bought by bounty points, don't need more pve.

Mon 4 Mar 2019 7:45 PM by simtye88

Please do not go to New frontiers. If I wanted to play NF I would go back to live. Al they really need to do is lower the hills on alb side and it will be fine. Just do a map editor and make the hills smaller!! Problem solved!

Mon 4 Mar 2019 10:59 PM by jhaerik

Raunz wrote: ↑
Mon 4 Mar 2019 2:23 PM
OF is too small for large population agreed, add toa while you at it tho but make everything bought by bounty points, don't need more pve.

Add ToA and most of us straight us quit.

If you add ToA I'd just go back to live. The only appeal this server has over it is no ToA.

Tue 5 Mar 2019 8:39 AM by Saosin

the only problem here is ..... the rvr AND ra sytem !! rp for everything, for just being in the zone? and either the WHOLE new Ra system or the old ra system and not some mixmash system

bow class without carmu does not even go!

and the new keepraid system was the best ever !! Better put more value on keepraiden and a fat rp reward to !! rather than rp for everything ....

Tue 5 Mar 2019 9:53 PM by tylerforeal

@pirahana, "Too many problems with NF, it would need major changes.

I prefer OF, it actually gives the sense of realm pride and needing to protect your lands from invaders.

The only change I would like is NF keeps replacing OF keeps."

How does OF right now give you a sense of realm pride? Literally 0 people care about keeps and relics.... there is no such thing as realm pride here, AT ALL. If you think there is realm pride here I don't think you ever experienced real DAOC honestly.

I question a lot of the haters of TOA/NF. These were two of the best things to happen to DAOC period. They added so much wonderful complexity to every aspect of RvR, from the actual fighting tactics to broader map/keep strategies. TOA/NF is what truly brought in the peak of DAOC for most, and with the inclusion of Agramon you could had every aspect of the game available in good quality- you could join the 100 man zergs for relics, join the freaking awesome keep takes that actually felt like they meant something or had value, you could small man around bridges or in agramon and not get zerged repeatedly, or you could solo in the same places and find meaningful and fun combat (again without being zerged every time). TOA itself added so many fun things to individual combat, it increased skill level and added a ton of opportunities for classes to outplay others if you had the skill- fighting wasn't as rock/paper/scissor as it is here.

Tue 5 Mar 2019 10:02 PM by Afuldan

tylerforeal wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Mar 2019 9:53 PM
@pirahana, "Too many problems with NF, it would need major changes.

I prefer OF, it actually gives the sense of realm pride and needing to protect your lands from invaders.

The only change I would like is NF keeps replacing OF keeps."

How does OF right now give you a sense of realm pride? Literally 0 people care about keeps and relics.... there is no such thing as realm pride here, AT ALL. If you think there is realm pride here I don't think you ever experienced real DAOC honestly.

I question a lot of the haters of TOA/NF honestly. These were two of the best things to happen to DAOC period. They added so much wonderful complexity to every aspect of RvR, from the actual fighting tactics to broader map/keep strategies. TOA/NF is what truly brought in the peak of DAOC for most, and with the inclusion of Agramon you could had every aspect of the game available in good quality- you could join the 100 man zergs for relics, join the freaking awesome keep takes that actually felt like they meant something or had value, you could small man around bridges or in agramon and not get zerged repeatedly, or you could solo in the same places and find meaningful and fun combat (again without being zerged every time). TOA itself added so many fun things to individual combat, it increased skill level and added a ton of opportunities for classes to outplay others if you had the skill- fighting wasn't as rock/paper/scissor as it is here.

NF was fun. What wasn’t fun was regrinding for templates for MUST HAVE /use items. Grinding ML sucked too. Was such a bummer to get my first 50 going in RvR just to be told that I had another 80 hours of ToA grinding before a group would take me.

I would have been fine if it was optional, but you NEEDED those ML abilities, and /uses, and bullshit. When I watched my buddy go 1v3 and win due to Traitor’s Dagger deciding that he was going to win, I realized I didn’t have the time for the game anymore.

Tue 5 Mar 2019 10:42 PM by tylerforeal

Literally 0 people here when they mention TOA want to grind PVE. Not a single person wants any additional PVE. NO ONE IS SAYING MORE PVE.

If TOA is mentioned, it's for the battle complexity that artifact/ML abilities gave. I repeat, literally no one wants to grind PVE and artifact levels.

Tue 5 Mar 2019 10:42 PM by tylerforeal

And I'm sorry to hear that you didn't make the grind Afuldan, but you missed out big time dude. Likely you missed out on the best days of DAOC, no joke.

Tue 5 Mar 2019 10:54 PM by Afuldan

tylerforeal wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Mar 2019 10:42 PM
And I'm sorry to hear that you didn't make the grind Afuldan, but you missed out big time dude. Likely you missed out on the best days of DAOC, no joke.

I was done with PvE. I was just getting into RvR, and than ToA dropped and my template was useless. I was prepared to grind more, and I did, but I never stuck it out to get fully toa temped.

I became an altoholic, because NF BG’s were the best. Had templated characters in most of them, on every realm. Never once stepped out into full RvR again though. Also never did anything past 39. I refused to deal with the artifacts.

Wed 6 Mar 2019 1:05 AM by The Skies Asunder

Afuldan wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Mar 2019 10:54 PM
tylerforeal wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Mar 2019 10:42 PM
And I'm sorry to hear that you didn't make the grind Afuldan, but you missed out big time dude. Likely you missed out on the best days of DAOC, no joke.

I was done with PvE. I was just getting into RvR, and than ToA dropped and my template was useless. I was prepared to grind more, and I did, but I never stuck it out to get fully toa temped.

I became an altoholic, because NF BG’s were the best. Had templated characters in most of them, on every realm. Never once stepped out into full RvR again though. Also never did anything past 39. I refused to deal with the artifacts.

That really is a shame that you never made it out to NF at 50 with Artifacts, and MLs. It was by far the highlight of DAoC for me. I do agree with you about the BGs though, it's a shame they don't have the NF BGs here. I had at least 20 toons templated for Molvik.