Remove stoicism from Savage! - Phoenix Freeshard

Hello, i have said it in every freeshard that existed, the class should not have determination but as there is NNFRA on Phoenix now there is opportunity to actually make the class balanced for once, removing stoicism would put the class on the same level as other HYBRID classes yes savage is a hybrid class.

Champ,VW,Thane,Paladin all very powerful now with nnfra and non of those classes make other tanks useless while savage just makes zerk looks like a joke.

My next post is about mop/wp, what ties into this post.

yw
Raunz

Mon 25 Feb 2019 9:07 AM by Sepplord

Instead of nerfing svg, buffing zerks to BM/Merc lvl would make more sense

Mon 25 Feb 2019 9:12 AM by Raunz

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Mon 25 Feb 2019 9:07 AM
Instead of nerfing svg, buffing zerks to BM/Merc lvl would make more sense

Edit: dont insult players, thank you. Greetings, Uthred.

Bm/merc/zerk are perfectly fine and very balanced right now. Problem is svg not other light tanks.

Mon 25 Feb 2019 9:17 AM by Sepplord

Raunz wrote: ↑
Mon 25 Feb 2019 9:12 AM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Mon 25 Feb 2019 9:07 AM
Instead of nerfing svg, buffing zerks to BM/Merc lvl would make more sense

Edit: dont insult players, thank you. Greetings, Uthred.

Bm/merc/zerk are perfectly fine and very balanced right now. Problem is svg not other light tanks.

All the rageposts you created today show that if one of us needs a break, to cool down and regain reason, it's not me

Mon 25 Feb 2019 9:20 AM by Raunz

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Mon 25 Feb 2019 9:17 AM
Raunz wrote: ↑
Mon 25 Feb 2019 9:12 AM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Mon 25 Feb 2019 9:07 AM
Instead of nerfing svg, buffing zerks to BM/Merc lvl would make more sense

Edit: dont insult players, thank you. Greetings, Uthred.

Bm/merc/zerk are perfectly fine and very balanced right now. Problem is svg not other light tanks.

All the rageposts you created today show that if one of us needs a break, to cool down and regain reason, it's not me

No rage dude, i like to give my ideas but Uthred gives deleting my posts on discord so i took his advice and posted some stuff here as i'm bored at work, All very valid points.

Mon 25 Feb 2019 9:21 AM by Sepplord

Raunz wrote: ↑
Mon 25 Feb 2019 9:20 AM
All very valid points.

Especially your suggestion about killstreaks

Mon 25 Feb 2019 9:24 AM by Raunz

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Mon 25 Feb 2019 9:21 AM
Raunz wrote: ↑
Mon 25 Feb 2019 9:20 AM
All very valid points.

Especially your suggestion about killstreaks

Yes, that is legit idea btw. just Imagine having Chopper gunner in emain you would run out of bullets.

Mon 25 Feb 2019 7:45 PM by jhaerik

Savage isn't a hybrid. It doesn't have a power bar.

Seriously what would it even be a hybrid of? A guy that pimps slaps people with his right hand.... and a guy that pimp slaps people with his left hand?

Mon 25 Feb 2019 7:55 PM by Quik

jhaerik wrote: ↑
Mon 25 Feb 2019 7:45 PM
Savage isn't a hybrid. It doesn't have a power bar.

Seriously what would it even be a hybrid of? A guy that pimps slaps people with his right hand.... and a guy that pimp slaps people with his left hand?

Yeah but how bad would that pimp slap hurt coming from a troll savage with HtH weapons...

Mon 25 Feb 2019 8:42 PM by Luluko

be happy that they dont have charge here aswell and 30sec buffs like on live, that little stoicism is manageable just dont run full caster grps and use melee snares/stuns

Mon 25 Feb 2019 9:52 PM by teiloh

Luluko wrote: ↑
Mon 25 Feb 2019 8:42 PM
be happy that they dont have charge here aswell and 30sec buffs like on live, that little stoicism is manageable just dont run full caster grps and use melee snares/stuns

40-50% chance to land melee snares/stuns on a Savage.

Mon 25 Feb 2019 10:02 PM by jhaerik

teiloh wrote: ↑
Mon 25 Feb 2019 9:52 PM
Luluko wrote: ↑
Mon 25 Feb 2019 8:42 PM
be happy that they dont have charge here aswell and 30sec buffs like on live, that little stoicism is manageable just dont run full caster grps and use melee snares/stuns

40-50% chance to land melee snares/stuns on a Savage.

OH NO!

You have to hit your slam button twice instead of once.

THE HORROR!

nerf

Mon 25 Feb 2019 10:07 PM by teiloh

jhaerik wrote: ↑
Mon 25 Feb 2019 10:02 PM
OH NO!

You have to hit your slam button twice instead of once.

THE HORROR!

nerf

OH NO!

You have to sit in CC for 3 seconds instead of 1.

THE HORROR!

Savages can't lose Stoic!

Mon 25 Feb 2019 11:39 PM by Keelia

Just take stoicism out completely. Or just leave it on light tanks where it belongs.

Tue 26 Feb 2019 12:13 AM by Quik

Keelia wrote: ↑
Mon 25 Feb 2019 11:39 PM
Just take stoicism out completely. Or just leave it on light tanks where it belongs.

I personally don't care if Savages have Stoicism or not, but aren't they light tanks?

I know people talk about zerkers being light tanks, but a savage can tank better then a zerk at least in every group I have been in that has had one, shouldn't they be considered light tanks? People keep saying they are hybrids but I always thought hybrids had both endo skills and magic skills, and savage only has endo skills and his buffs that take life, no power.

I have to heal zerkers a whole lot more then savages when they get agro.

Tue 26 Feb 2019 12:19 AM by Isavyr

I agree that Savages should be treated as hybrids. They have many spells that give them defensive and offensive advantages (able to simultaneously become the most offensive, and defensive melee in game).

They are a hash of bad design elements, as they accomplish these huge shifts in power simply by activating abilities--to hell with teamwork--and then pay for it at the end of the buff duration--unlike every other class that pays for abilities at time of use.

In my opinion, they ought to pay for their abilities upfront (instant -life%). Their 360 degree evade should be reconsidered as it doesn't seem to further any design goal (why should a supposedly "light tank" have more damage mitigation than the heaviest of tanks?). Lastly, their stoicism should be reconsidered given their enormous self-buffing potential.

If nerfing them in the above were to overly weaken them, adding PF might be a good recompense.

Tue 26 Feb 2019 12:22 AM by Isavyr

Quik wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 12:13 AM
I personally don't care if Savages have Stoicism or not, but aren't they light tanks?

I know people talk about zerkers being light tanks, but a savage can tank better then a zerk at least in every group I have been in that has had one, shouldn't they be considered light tanks? People keep saying they are hybrids but I always thought hybrids had both endo skills and magic skills, and savage only has endo skills and his buffs that take life, no power.

They don't really fit into any description perfectly; no other class paid for abilities with life (very novel for DAOC). Meanwhile, savages didn't have the same dual-wield defense penetration, nor the prevent flight mechanic other light tanks had. Yet they were given the 360 degree evade that light-tanks were given (to this day, I won't understand why). In one way, it's a brilliant design of truly new and creative mechanics, but in another, it's very confusing as how to address them.

Tue 26 Feb 2019 5:55 AM by Raunz

I loved how Toa solved the issue by not giving svg charge nor banelords effectively making them useless for group play.

Tue 26 Feb 2019 6:32 AM by Isavyr

Raunz wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 5:55 AM
I loved how Toa solved the issue by not giving svg charge nor banelords effectively making them useless for group play.

That's not really a good solution though. The class should be fun, viable, and contribute to the game, while not being as overpowering as it currently is.

Tue 26 Feb 2019 6:45 AM by jhaerik

Keelia wrote: ↑
Mon 25 Feb 2019 11:39 PM
Just take stoicism out completely. Or just leave it on light tanks where it belongs.

Savages are Light tanks. So we agree.

Tue 26 Feb 2019 6:48 AM by jhaerik

Isavyr wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 12:22 AM
Quik wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 12:13 AM
I personally don't care if Savages have Stoicism or not, but aren't they light tanks?

I know people talk about zerkers being light tanks, but a savage can tank better then a zerk at least in every group I have been in that has had one, shouldn't they be considered light tanks? People keep saying they are hybrids but I always thought hybrids had both endo skills and magic skills, and savage only has endo skills and his buffs that take life, no power.

They don't really fit into any description perfectly; no other class paid for abilities with life (very novel for DAOC). Meanwhile, savages didn't have the same dual-wield defense penetration, nor the prevent flight mechanic other light tanks had. Yet they were given the 360 degree evade that light-tanks were given (to this day, I won't understand why). In one way, it's a brilliant design of truly new and creative mechanics, but in another, it's very confusing as how to address them.

Hybrids have power bars.
Light Tanks don't.

Light Tanks Dual Wield.
Hybrids don't.

Conclusion? Savages are Light tanks.

Tue 26 Feb 2019 11:50 AM by Raunz

jhaerik wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 6:48 AM
Isavyr wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 12:22 AM
Quik wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 12:13 AM
I personally don't care if Savages have Stoicism or not, but aren't they light tanks?

I know people talk about zerkers being light tanks, but a savage can tank better then a zerk at least in every group I have been in that has had one, shouldn't they be considered light tanks? People keep saying they are hybrids but I always thought hybrids had both endo skills and magic skills, and savage only has endo skills and his buffs that take life, no power.

They don't really fit into any description perfectly; no other class paid for abilities with life (very novel for DAOC). Meanwhile, savages didn't have the same dual-wield defense penetration, nor the prevent flight mechanic other light tanks had. Yet they were given the 360 degree evade that light-tanks were given (to this day, I won't understand why). In one way, it's a brilliant design of truly new and creative mechanics, but in another, it's very confusing as how to address them.

Hybrids have power bars.
Light Tanks don't.

Light Tanks Dual Wield.
Hybrids don't.

Conclusion? Savages are Light tanks.

Actually h2h is considered as a 1handed weapon, they don't dual wield.

Tue 26 Feb 2019 12:53 PM by jhaerik

Raunz wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 11:50 AM
jhaerik wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 6:48 AM
Isavyr wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 12:22 AM
They don't really fit into any description perfectly; no other class paid for abilities with life (very novel for DAOC). Meanwhile, savages didn't have the same dual-wield defense penetration, nor the prevent flight mechanic other light tanks had. Yet they were given the 360 degree evade that light-tanks were given (to this day, I won't understand why). In one way, it's a brilliant design of truly new and creative mechanics, but in another, it's very confusing as how to address them.

Hybrids have power bars.
Light Tanks don't.

Light Tanks Dual Wield.
Hybrids don't.

Conclusion? Savages are Light tanks.

Actually h2h is considered as a 1handed weapon, they don't dual wield.

Dual wield
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Mongolian soldiers dual-wielding knives during skills display
Dual wielding is using two weapons, one in each hand, during combat. It is not a common combat practice. Although historical records of dual wielding in war are limited, there are numerous weapon-based martial arts that involve the use of a pair of weapons. The use of a companion weapon is sometimes employed in European martial arts and fencing, such as a parrying dagger. Miyamoto Musashi, a Japanese swordsman and ronin, was said to have conceived of the idea of a particular style of swordsmanship involving the use of two swords.

In terms of firearms and handguns, this style has been popularized by television, but is generally denounced by firearm enthusiasts due to its impracticality.[citation needed] Though using two hand guns at a time confers an advantage by allowing more ready ammunition, it is rarely done due to other aspects of weapons handling. Dual wielding is present in many films and video games, which have the freedom of ignoring the impracticality of the style. The term itself is often invoked in the context of games.

We are speaking of thematics here not systematics.

Also considering the people running this server consider Savages as light tanks as well.... I don't think the "Savages are hybrids" people have much of a leg to stand on.

https://herald.playphoenix.online/characters/realmpoints?time-frame=all-time&filter=light-tanks
https://herald.playphoenix.online/characters/realmpoints?time-frame=all-time&filter=hybrids

Simply disagreeing to disgree isn't much of an argument without evidence. Yes I'm fully aware of savages not getting the penetration bonus for DW'ing. That has nothing to do with them being dual-wielders however. The act of holding a weapon in each hand is Dual-wielding. All light tanks have trade-offs. The savage's trade-offs happen to be lower defensive penetration, inability to spec shield, and lack of snare on anything but an off-evade.

Tue 26 Feb 2019 2:27 PM by Isavyr

jhaerik wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 6:48 AM
Hybrids have power bars.
Light Tanks don't.

Light Tanks Dual Wield.
Hybrids don't.

Conclusion? Savages are Light tanks.

Well, shoot, you solved it. We need to give Savages defense penetration, flurry, charge, and prevent flight--oh and remove their spells, because they're light-tanks and light tanks don't have spells!

It's meaningless to cherry-pick items in order to define them. Their role is like that of a light-tank, but it's undeniable that they have magic. So what does that make them? Well, clearly not just another light-tank.

It's meaningless to argue about whether they are a light-tank or not as clearly they have very different tools; so instead of arguing about definitions, what are your recommendations and why?

Tue 26 Feb 2019 2:29 PM by Ardri

Raunz wrote: ↑
Mon 25 Feb 2019 9:04 AM
Hello, i have said it in every freeshard that existed, the class should not have determination but as there is NNFRA on Phoenix now there is opportunity to actually make the class balanced for once, removing stoicism would put the class on the same level as other HYBRID classes yes savage is a hybrid class.

Champ,VW,Thane,Paladin all very powerful now with nnfra and non of those classes make other tanks useless while savage just makes zerk looks like a joke.

My next post is about mop/wp, what ties into this post.

yw
Raunz

Preach brother. Take stoicism away from savage and give it to thane. Asked for this almost a year ago https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=390&p=1862#p1862

Tue 26 Feb 2019 3:18 PM by Isavyr

Ardri wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 2:29 PM
Preach brother. Take stoicism away from savage and give it to thane. Asked for this almost a year ago https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=390&p=1862#p1862

Thane is fully viable now. If you gave Thanes stoicism, you would never want a warrior because thane has insta ranged rupt, damage, and casting. This is really ill-thought out, but let's focus on Savages.

Tue 26 Feb 2019 9:09 PM by jhaerik

Isavyr wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 2:27 PM
jhaerik wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 6:48 AM
Hybrids have power bars.
Light Tanks don't.

Light Tanks Dual Wield.
Hybrids don't.

Conclusion? Savages are Light tanks.

Well, shoot, you solved it. We need to give Savages defense penetration, flurry, charge, and prevent flight--oh and remove their spells, because they're light-tanks and light tanks don't have spells!

It's meaningless to cherry-pick items in order to define them. Their role is like that of a light-tank, but it's undeniable that they have magic. So what does that make them? Well, clearly not just another light-tank.

It's meaningless to argue about whether they are a light-tank or not as clearly they have very different tools; so instead of arguing about definitions, what are your recommendations and why?

Sure right after we remove spells from nightshades. Melee stealth don't have spells!

Also I'm pretty damn sure that Savages don't use spells either. Spells cost power.

Savage abilities are more like a special version of a chant than anything. What part of those the characters looks or plays would suggest to you that they know magic?

I deny Savages have magic based on the following points.

Magic gets benefit from +skill for one thing. Savagery doesn't.
Magic costs power to cast. Savagery buffs do not.
Magic users have a casting stat. Savages do not.
Thematically it does not fit their image. They are just pissed off melee that trade their own health for bursts of super "human" ability. If anything Savage buffs are like the mother that lifts a car off her kid... or Kaioken from DBZ for people into that.

It's meaningless to cherry-pick items in order to define them. Their role is like that of a light-tank, but it's undeniable that they have magic. So what does that make them? Well, clearly not just another light-tank.

Well you agree that they fill the role of light tanks, and I have explained to you that they don't use magic.
Back to you.

I'll leave you with this though.

"When I see a bird that walks like a duck and swims like a duck and quacks like a duck, I call that bird a duck"

Tue 26 Feb 2019 10:11 PM by cuuchulain79

IMO, Savage is a pure melee class...as in, if they're not in melee range...they can do nothing (except stand in one place and interrupt from 1350).

In fact...there's only one stoicism class that can spec into a range attack...and it is the eternally OP crossbow armsman.

I honestly can't wait for the next suggestion thread...removing stoicism from svg and giving to thane will be hard to top :-)

Tue 26 Feb 2019 11:17 PM by Keelia

jhaerik wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 6:45 AM
Keelia wrote: ↑
Mon 25 Feb 2019 11:39 PM
Just take stoicism out completely. Or just leave it on light tanks where it belongs.

Savages are Light tanks. So we agree.

Savages are hybrids. Because a VW can tank better than a bm makes him a light tank? Not understanding this logic

Tue 26 Feb 2019 11:24 PM by Afuldan

Keelia wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 11:17 PM
jhaerik wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 6:45 AM
Keelia wrote: ↑
Mon 25 Feb 2019 11:39 PM
Just take stoicism out completely. Or just leave it on light tanks where it belongs.

Savages are Light tanks. So we agree.

Savages are hybrids. Because a VW can tank better than a bm makes him a light tank? Not understanding this logic

Savages are light tanks because once you root them and move away, their damage output drops to 0. The VW can still cast, because it is a hybrid.

Wed 27 Feb 2019 5:27 AM by Isavyr

jhaerik wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 9:09 PM
Well you agree that they fill the role of light tanks, and I have explained to you that they don't use magic.
Back to you.

As I said, it doesn't really matter what we call them, only that they're balanced in a way that's fun yet not overpowered.

Wed 27 Feb 2019 6:49 AM by jhaerik

Isavyr wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Feb 2019 5:27 AM
jhaerik wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 9:09 PM
Well you agree that they fill the role of light tanks, and I have explained to you that they don't use magic.
Back to you.

As I said, it doesn't really matter what we call them, only that they're balanced in a way that's fun yet not overpowered.

All they bring to the table is damage.... and you want to remove that?

They can't solo for crap. They have no group utilty. All they bring is a side stun chain that is a poor man's slam... and damage. Also they are completely gutted by disease. They can't even stay on their target at that point because they have no snare.

Wanna beat savs? Disease them.. rupt their backline and blow'em up. Or hell just ignore them at that point... They can't get to you.

Wed 27 Feb 2019 8:26 AM by inoeth

jhaerik wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Feb 2019 6:49 AM
Isavyr wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Feb 2019 5:27 AM
jhaerik wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 9:09 PM
Well you agree that they fill the role of light tanks, and I have explained to you that they don't use magic.
Back to you.

As I said, it doesn't really matter what we call them, only that they're balanced in a way that's fun yet not overpowered.

All they bring to the table is damage.... and you want to remove that?

They can't solo for crap. They have no group utilty. All they bring is a side stun chain that is a poor man's slam... and damage. Also they are completely gutted by disease. They can't even stay on their target at that point because they have no snare.

Wanna beat savs? Disease them.. rupt their backline and blow'em up. Or hell just ignore them at that point... They can't get to you.

just dont answer isavyr, he is a troll

Wed 27 Feb 2019 8:27 AM by Keeto

Raunz wrote: ↑
Mon 25 Feb 2019 9:04 AM
Hello, i have said it in every freeshard that existed, the class should not have determination but as there is NNFRA on Phoenix now there is opportunity to actually make the class balanced for once, removing stoicism would put the class on the same level as other HYBRID classes yes savage is a hybrid class.

Champ,VW,Thane,Paladin all very powerful now with nnfra and non of those classes make other tanks useless while savage just makes zerk looks like a joke.

My next post is about mop/wp, what ties into this post.

yw
Raunz

So you actually want to ruin the only meleeclass worth playing in mid?

And mop/wp nerf next? What comes after it? Caster love or even better only hib caster love?

Wed 27 Feb 2019 4:22 PM by Quik

Keeto wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Feb 2019 8:27 AM
Raunz wrote: ↑
Mon 25 Feb 2019 9:04 AM
Hello, i have said it in every freeshard that existed, the class should not have determination but as there is NNFRA on Phoenix now there is opportunity to actually make the class balanced for once, removing stoicism would put the class on the same level as other HYBRID classes yes savage is a hybrid class.

Champ,VW,Thane,Paladin all very powerful now with nnfra and non of those classes make other tanks useless while savage just makes zerk looks like a joke.

My next post is about mop/wp, what ties into this post.

yw
Raunz
So you actually want to ruin the only meleeclass worth playing in mid?

And mop/wp nerf next? What comes after it? Caster love or even better only hib caster love?

This is exactly what the problem is...a caster oriented player on another realm doesn't like Savages.

Ok...I hate stealthers can we remove stealth plz?

Wed 27 Feb 2019 6:17 PM by Isavyr

jhaerik wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Feb 2019 6:49 AM
All they bring to the table is damage.... and you want to remove that?

They can't solo for crap. They have no group utilty. All they bring is a side stun chain that is a poor man's slam... and damage. Also they are completely gutted by disease. They can't even stay on their target at that point because they have no snare.

Wanna beat savs? Disease them.. rupt their backline and blow'em up. Or hell just ignore them at that point... They can't get to you.

Basically everything you said applies to light-tanks, and actually most tanks, so I'm not sure what your point is.

No, they aren't all damage, and that's my problem with them--they have some of the best defenses--the melee resists and the 50% 360-degree evade. These are incomparable to any other offensive tank in the game, and furthermore brings their "passive" mitigation above plate-wearing tanks. Are they offensive or defensive?

Also, their utility is also self-provided, which is a huge benefit, because it removes the onus on the healer to provide celerity in order to have wonderful DPS. Lastly, they pay for their stuff at the end of use, which is minor, but illogical.

To summarize, I don't want to see the class gutted--far from it, I think the class has neat ideas going for it. I just want to see minor touch-ups that define the class more consistently. If Savages want the best offense and defense, then they probably shouldn't have stoicism. If they want the best offense and stoicism, then they probably shouldn't have 50%, 360-degree evade (if you have damage, you should be able to be peeled easily by melee).

Thu 28 Feb 2019 6:38 AM by Keeto

Isavyr wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Feb 2019 6:17 PM
jhaerik wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Feb 2019 6:49 AM
All they bring to the table is damage.... and you want to remove that?

They can't solo for crap. They have no group utilty. All they bring is a side stun chain that is a poor man's slam... and damage. Also they are completely gutted by disease. They can't even stay on their target at that point because they have no snare.

Wanna beat savs? Disease them.. rupt their backline and blow'em up. Or hell just ignore them at that point... They can't get to you.

Basically everything you said applies to light-tanks, and actually most tanks, so I'm not sure what your point is.

No, they aren't all damage, and that's my problem with them--they have some of the best defenses--the melee resists and the 50% 360-degree evade. These are incomparable to any other offensive tank in the game, and furthermore brings their "passive" mitigation above plate-wearing tanks. Are they offensive or defensive?

Also, their utility is also self-provided, which is a huge benefit, because it removes the onus on the healer to provide celerity in order to have wonderful DPS. Lastly, they pay for their stuff at the end of use, which is minor, but illogical.

To summarize, I don't want to see the class gutted--far from it, I think the class has neat ideas going for it. I just want to see minor touch-ups that define the class more consistently. If Savages want the best offense and defense, then they probably shouldn't have stoicism. If they want the best offense and stoicism, then they probably shouldn't have 50%, 360-degree evade (if you have damage, you should be able to be peeled easily by melee).

Have you ever tried to hit a BM with his shield out? Plus BM does more and more consistent damage.

I don't really see the problem everyone has with Savage, when there are these unbeatable Hib Tanktrains running wild.. with 2 or 3 people who can slam, they have stupid defense, because everyone has a shield, they are impossible to heal against, because of disease proc wich seems to proc faster than you can cure it and meanwhile zerker and merc are so bad you just can't play them.

Blows my mind tbh.

Thu 28 Feb 2019 6:22 PM by lilrdmandy

Keeto wrote: ↑
Thu 28 Feb 2019 6:38 AM
because of disease proc wich seems to proc faster than you can cure it

Where's the disease proc come from? I want it!

Thu 28 Feb 2019 11:12 PM by Isavyr

Keeto wrote: ↑
Thu 28 Feb 2019 6:38 AM
Plus BM does more and more consistent damage.

...they are impossible to heal against, because of disease proc wich seems to proc faster than you can cure it...

This isn't real--you're posting nonsense.

Fri 1 Mar 2019 1:26 AM by cuuchulain79

Isavyr wrote: To summarize, I don't want to see the class gutted--far from it, I think the class has neat ideas going for it. I just want to see minor touch-ups that define the class more consistently. If Savages want the best offense and defense, then they probably shouldn't have stoicism. If they want the best offense and stoicism, then they probably shouldn't have 50%, 360-degree evade (if you have damage, you should be able to be peeled easily by melee).

This is DAoC...not designing new heros for LoL. It's a good class that worships the god of Arenji.

If they're running at you...run the other way.

If you want to peel one...don't use a slow polearm.

If you take an epic quad hit...congratulations...had you used these odds to buy a lotto ticket, you would have turned George Washington into Alexander Hamilton.

Mon 4 Mar 2019 1:22 PM by Keeto

lilrdmandy wrote: ↑
Thu 28 Feb 2019 6:22 PM
Keeto wrote: ↑
Thu 28 Feb 2019 6:38 AM
because of disease proc wich seems to proc faster than you can cure it

Where's the disease proc come from? I want it!

Valewalker obviously ?!

Mon 4 Mar 2019 3:42 PM by Isavyr

cuuchulain79 wrote: ↑
Fri 1 Mar 2019 1:26 AM
This is DAoC...not designing new heros for LoL. It's a good class that worships the god of Arenji.

If they're running at you...run the other way.

If you want to peel one...don't use a slow polearm.

If you take an epic quad hit...congratulations...had you used these odds to buy a lotto ticket, you would have turned George Washington into Alexander Hamilton.

Suggesting running away from an enemy is a funny argument and gave me a chuckle, because its identical to the LA pre-nerf defenders--its invalid because it doesn't actually argue anything; balance is a comparison between all classes, not whether counters are available. I'm underlining that for importance, because your list is a list of counters, which shows you're not following the argument.

I'm not sure your point is regarding champions from League--are you arguing DAoC shouldn't be balanced? That would be a simple premise to argue, which would preclude the need to justify savage's strengths.

Mon 4 Mar 2019 4:45 PM by cuuchulain79

If you're going to bring up specific numbers about how a class is obviously far outperforming its counter parts....then that would be arguing 'just like LA nerf.'

But, you're just arguing that savages don't fit into some fantasy of perfect balance...

SI landed in 2002...savage has always been a good class (and always gotten det/stoicism)...now you want to change that...why?...all your little QQ? Too hard to peel...too much DMG...?

You don't have anything specific to say, just vague complaints 'they have offense and defense, so they shouldn't get stoicism...no melee DPS should be hard to peel'...lol.

I can just imagine you chasing down a mid train with a 6.0 SPD pole, with steam coming out of your ears :-)

Mon 4 Mar 2019 5:18 PM by Isavyr

cuuchulain79 wrote: ↑
Mon 4 Mar 2019 4:45 PM
You don't have anything specific to say, just vague complaints 'they have offense and defense, so they shouldn't get stoicism...no melee DPS should be hard to peel'...lol.

That seems specific to me. If it isn't specific enough for you, then no amount of discussion will change that!

Mon 4 Mar 2019 5:36 PM by cuuchulain79

Does that mean you're done posting about what savages 'should' be?

Thank god :-)