Things to do PvE wise after 50

Just a question I can probably find out once I get home, but after you hit 50, what else is there for PvE? Are master levels enabled?

Wed 20 Feb 2019 8:42 PM by chryso

Feathers and encounter credit.

Wed 20 Feb 2019 10:39 PM by Kyosji

Please expand

Wed 20 Feb 2019 10:46 PM by Patron

U can buy good droos with feathers in capital cities.
But u need to kill the Boss mobs before u can buy specific items.

And u can farm rogs and salvloot.
And u can kill caravans or guards and do keeps

Wed 20 Feb 2019 10:54 PM by defiasbandit

We need more PvE content eventually.

Wed 20 Feb 2019 11:16 PM by Patron

Why?
I mean the player expect some rewards and this could affect the balance.
So why we need more content?
U was in tur suil and fomor? Or whatever realm u play...
Discovered Hall of the corrupt?
Beated the df princes or the worm?

There is content, its just not popular doing them.
I guess we could need more pve, but only when it comes with rvrcontent.
Eventzone with some mobs and acces for all realm, or some mobs, controlled by staff and player and realms work together to kill them.
Just silly examples...

Thu 21 Feb 2019 3:17 AM by jg777

defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Wed 20 Feb 2019 10:54 PM
We need more PvE content eventually.

We don’t need more PvE content that affects RvR by increased itemization/encounters to get uberloot necessary to compete in RvR. DAoC was not a PvE centric game and never will be, it’s about the RvR experience. There are so many better games available for PvE, players interested in PvE ought to seek out those games for a vastly more enjoyable experience than DAoC. We don’t even have the quests ingame available from before to demonstrate the lack of PvE focus this server has- and that was a smart move by Phoenix staff in my view.

Thu 21 Feb 2019 7:37 AM by defiasbandit

jg777 wrote: ↑
Thu 21 Feb 2019 3:17 AM
defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Wed 20 Feb 2019 10:54 PM
We need more PvE content eventually.

We don’t need more PvE content that affects RvR by increased itemization/encounters to get uberloot necessary to compete in RvR. DAoC was not a PvE centric game and never will be, it’s about the RvR experience. There are so many better games available for PvE, players interested in PvE ought to seek out those games for a vastly more enjoyable experience than DAoC. We don’t even have the quests ingame available from before to demonstrate the lack of PvE focus this server has- and that was a smart move by Phoenix staff in my view.

This why Mythic poured all their efforts into designed Trials of Atlantis.....

Thu 21 Feb 2019 8:14 AM by Mac

defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Thu 21 Feb 2019 7:37 AM
jg777 wrote: ↑
Thu 21 Feb 2019 3:17 AM
defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Wed 20 Feb 2019 10:54 PM
We need more PvE content eventually.

We don’t need more PvE content that affects RvR by increased itemization/encounters to get uberloot necessary to compete in RvR. DAoC was not a PvE centric game and never will be, it’s about the RvR experience. There are so many better games available for PvE, players interested in PvE ought to seek out those games for a vastly more enjoyable experience than DAoC. We don’t even have the quests ingame available from before to demonstrate the lack of PvE focus this server has- and that was a smart move by Phoenix staff in my view.

This why Mythic poured all their efforts into designed Trials of Atlantis.....

EU Prime time Mids raid Tuscaran Glacier (TG) the Epic Dungeon every day, Monday thru Friday at 19:30 for Feathers, loot and credit. We get between 200 and 400 players every raid. There is plenty of PvE content if you organize it.

Thu 21 Feb 2019 10:42 AM by dudis

Let me ask you this. Have you ever done any of the "other" dungeons in SI?

They have good loot/killcredit for this era and difficulty vary from full group to zerg.

You can also look up mobs out in the open that you can hunt for good items or simply farm for ROGs.

DAoC and this server in particular isn't designed for repeated PvE runs past the point where you are "done" with your gear.

Thu 21 Feb 2019 11:19 AM by jg777

defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Thu 21 Feb 2019 7:37 AM
jg777 wrote: ↑
Thu 21 Feb 2019 3:17 AM
defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Wed 20 Feb 2019 10:54 PM
We need more PvE content eventually.

We don’t need more PvE content that affects RvR by increased itemization/encounters to get uberloot necessary to compete in RvR. DAoC was not a PvE centric game and never will be, it’s about the RvR experience. There are so many better games available for PvE, players interested in PvE ought to seek out those games for a vastly more enjoyable experience than DAoC. We don’t even have the quests ingame available from before to demonstrate the lack of PvE focus this server has- and that was a smart move by Phoenix staff in my view.

This why Mythic poured all their efforts into designed Trials of Atlantis.....

Most former DAoC players left DAoC around ToA and it’s widely known the majority of the playerbase did not appreciate the extended and mandatory PvE content they had to grind through to be competitive in RvR. It’s no secret players mainly loved DAoC because of the RvR, not because of the PvE. Additionally, while creating a larger gap between a new player and being RvR competitive may make sense from a financial standpoint, this server has nothing to gain yet everything to lose from it. We don’t need more PvE content introduced on this server, focus on the RvR side of things.

Thu 21 Feb 2019 1:16 PM by chryso

jg777 wrote: ↑
Thu 21 Feb 2019 11:19 AM
Most former DAoC players left DAoC around ToA and it’s widely known the majority of the playerbase did not appreciate the extended and mandatory PvE content they had to grind through to be competitive in RvR. It’s no secret players mainly loved DAoC because of the RvR, not because of the PvE. Additionally, while creating a larger gap between a new player and being RvR competitive may make sense from a financial standpoint, this server has nothing to gain yet everything to lose from it. We don’t need more PvE content introduced on this server, focus on the RvR side of things.

I do not think tha is true. I know people like to say that but Mythic put out a couple more expansions AFTER TOA. If the playerbase had already left then I doubt they would have continued creating expansions.

Thu 21 Feb 2019 1:29 PM by Dominus

well you can't really have it both ways.. either you want to get into RvR more quickly and pvp, which the devs have enabled with amazing RoGs, tasks, feathers etc., or you want to create a PvE system with uber rewards requiring everyone to complete once again in order to get back into RvR..

Personally, I like a blend of both, and agree the PvE content is limited here, but in NO way do I want more PvE at the cost of entry into RvR.

Thu 21 Feb 2019 2:41 PM by jg777

chryso wrote: ↑
Thu 21 Feb 2019 1:16 PM
jg777 wrote: ↑
Thu 21 Feb 2019 11:19 AM
Most former DAoC players left DAoC around ToA and it’s widely known the majority of the playerbase did not appreciate the extended and mandatory PvE content they had to grind through to be competitive in RvR. It’s no secret players mainly loved DAoC because of the RvR, not because of the PvE. Additionally, while creating a larger gap between a new player and being RvR competitive may make sense from a financial standpoint, this server has nothing to gain yet everything to lose from it. We don’t need more PvE content introduced on this server, focus on the RvR side of things.

I do not think tha is true. I know people like to say that but Mythic put out a couple more expansions AFTER TOA. If the playerbase had already left then I doubt they would have continued creating expansions.

I know years ago there was data presented to show the large swaths of players leaving DAoC around ToA release and the numerous complaints from players over it. I’m not sure access to that data still exists but anyone from around that time could confirm a large portion of the playerbase was unhappy with that expansion (while Shrouded Isles was well received by the community). Mythic implementing additional expansions after that doesn’t negate that, any MMORPG is going to release expansions to their game for financial reasons- what else are their employed developers going to do otherwise?

Anything that creates more time consumption for a new player on the server to compete in endgame RvR will negatively affect the population- and that goes for players creating alternates and the like too. If ToA would be added, then please don’t implement the additional levels, the uberloot and/or additional abilities- just have the encounters/quests, give out name titles for completing them and feather rewards/other items already ingame. Don’t force players to complete more PvE content to stay competitive in RvR.

Thu 21 Feb 2019 3:28 PM by chryso

I think the leaving of players may also be due to WOW coming out about that time more than a lack of desire to PVE.

Thu 21 Feb 2019 5:04 PM by jg777

chryso wrote: ↑
Thu 21 Feb 2019 3:28 PM
I think the leaving of players may also be due to WOW coming out about that time more than a lack of desire to PVE.

That can also factor in- what can’t be denied however is the many players who openly expressed frustration and discontent over ToA and left. You can argue the actual numbers but it’s widely known that ToA hurt the DAoC playerbase significantly and wasn’t as welcomed as the previous expansions.

Thu 21 Feb 2019 6:01 PM by defiasbandit

Trials of Atlantis was the most popular expansion. DAOC population peaked during ToA. Most DAOC players spent more time doing PvE than RvR. That is why Mythic made ToA in the first place.

DAOC didn't die because of ToA, it thrived. Without ToA the SI population would have kept dropping. WoW is what killed DAOC and tanked the population.

These are all facts.

Jg777 you are making all of that up.

Thu 21 Feb 2019 6:16 PM by Gibolon

Well I would like to see TOA added but I understand the grind to be competitive in RvR. I think a good way would be special skins of TOA bosses which just drop by them and take away the reskin merchant for this, so if you want to look nice you can farm PvE encounter and maybe sell the skins as well without hurting the RvR experience.

Thu 21 Feb 2019 6:36 PM by florin

defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Thu 21 Feb 2019 6:01 PM
Trials of Atlantis was the most popular expansion. DAOC population peaked during ToA. Most DAOC players spent more time doing PvE than RvR. That is why Mythic made ToA in the first place.

DAOC didn't die because of ToA, it thrived. Without ToA the SI population would have kept dropping. WoW is what killed DAOC and tanked the population.

These are all facts.

Jg777 you are making all of that up.

you're pulling all this from graphs of player population - inferring thrived based on numbers..what youre not figuring out is that the whole TOA experience was such a tedious grind that players en masse, even those addicted left if for a fresh start in wow. Toa put a huge barrier up for new players and reduced the TTR - Time to RVR substantially and drove away casuals who were curious about WoW.

Thu 21 Feb 2019 7:20 PM by Gibolon

Related to my other post about TOA and skin loot it would also be nice if the whole TOA map would be a RvR zone so there is some risk while farming as well. With the RvR xp bonus and TOA mobs it could be a cool feature. I payed Camlann for a long time and the fights in the TOA zone were always fun!

Thu 21 Feb 2019 7:33 PM by Kyosji

I came in around the time ToA first came out. I can't remember if I was before or after, or if I was dragged in by friends when it came out. I honestly loved being in ToA and the things I could do there.

Thu 21 Feb 2019 8:01 PM by jg777

defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Thu 21 Feb 2019 6:01 PM
Trials of Atlantis was the most popular expansion. DAOC population peaked during ToA. Most DAOC players spent more time doing PvE than RvR. That is why Mythic made ToA in the first place.

DAOC didn't die because of ToA, it thrived. Without ToA the SI population would have kept dropping. WoW is what killed DAOC and tanked the population.

These are all facts.

Jg777 you are making all of that up.

Unfortunately this was so long ago that most data is probably long lost- but here’s an article discussing the game and what I’ve said concerning Trials of Atlantis.

https://massivelyop.com/2016/07/02/the-game-archaeologist-dark-age-of-camelot/

No, I’m not making it up at all. If you polled DAoC players that played pre ToA you’d get many saying what I am. Sorry if you disagree.

Thu 21 Feb 2019 8:06 PM by kmark101

DAOC playersbase was always PvE centric, only a tiny amount of - vocal - population prefers RvR over PvE.
I have to agree with desfias for once (zomg...!), Mythic recognized this and made ToA.

The whole reason why Phoenix is more popular one month after release is the awesome PvE experience they have created. Just look around in your guilds, everyone is already rerolling their 2nd or 3rd alts. Nothing proves PvE centric playerbase more than that. Phoenix have a bright future because people can reroll 39 times to PvE with all classes. Similarly, the reason Uthgard died off quickly because the lack of fun PvE (there, the moment that ppl hit 50 after weeks/months of grind, they rerolled the next day...). Eventually, after many many rerolls and PvE, people do casual RvR, but with a big enough population it means constant RvR action with the remaining 20% of players who prefer RvR, so it all evens out and the server is healthy.

Now the ToA topic, what killed the population in ToA was the item xp grind, because it was toxic... relam mates had to fight against each other for pops, the whole playerbase started to build hatreds against friends, it was just stupid game design. The raids and boss killing parts of ToA were beautiful and everyone loved it. If ToA ever gets implemented, that's where we should stop: raids and mob killing, similarly to current SI raids. Without the item xp grind retardness, it would provide an awesome PvE experience and the server would stay healthy for a much longer time.

Thu 21 Feb 2019 8:09 PM by Kyosji

That article seemed a bit biased, and considering it was made in 2016 when ToA was 2003, the information they would have to go by is extremely outdated. I can only go from my own experiences, and I enjoyed ToA. Take that how you will.

Thu 21 Feb 2019 8:13 PM by defiasbandit

Jg777 stop clownin.

Thu 21 Feb 2019 8:15 PM by Kyosji

kmark101 wrote: ↑
Thu 21 Feb 2019 8:06 PM
DAOC playersbase was always PvE centric, only a tiny amount of - vocal - population prefers RvR over PvE.
I have to agree with desfias for once (zomg...!), Mythic recognized this and made ToA.

The whole reason why Phoenix is more popular one month after release is the awesome PvE experience they have created. Just look around in your guilds, everyone is already rerolling their 2nd or 3rd alts. Nothing proves PvE centric playerbase more than that. Phoenix have a bright future because people can reroll 39 times to PvE with all classes. Similarly, the reason Uthgard died off quickly because the lack of fun PvE (there, the moment that ppl hit 50 after weeks/months of grind, they rerolled the next day...). Eventually, after many many rerolls and PvE, people do casual RvR, but with a big enough population it means constant RvR action with the remaining 20% of players who prefer RvR, so it all evens out and the server is healthy.

Now the ToA topic, what killed the population in ToA was the item xp grind, because it was toxic... relam mates had to fight against each other for pops, the whole playerbase started to build hatreds against friends, it was just stupid game design. The raids and boss killing parts of ToA were beautiful and everyone loved it. If ToA ever gets implemented, that's where we should stop: raids and mob killing, similarly to current SI raids. Without the item xp grind retardness, it would provide an awesome PvE experience and the server would stay healthy for a much longer time.

Yeah, I agree with the item grind.

Thu 21 Feb 2019 8:49 PM by borodino1812

I guess we all experience things differently, but for me ToA made me quit daoc. I levelled a Nightshade at release, and I loved the class in rvr. ToA forced me into another pve grind, which didn't interest me the slightest. I wanted to rvr. Once my character was no longer competitive due to me not playing ToA, I quit daoc. I think many went through the same.

If you introduce ToA here, with mandatory pve grouping for encounters, you will see the same mass exodus. Perhaps even more so now, the players are today even more focused on optimal pve groups.

People don't want to be forced to pve to be competitive in rvr.

The current ruleset strikes a good balance.

Thu 21 Feb 2019 9:57 PM by defiasbandit

borodino1812 wrote: ↑
Thu 21 Feb 2019 8:49 PM
I guess we all experience things differently, but for me ToA made me quit daoc. I levelled a Nightshade at release, and I loved the class in rvr. ToA forced me into another pve grind, which didn't interest me the slightest. I wanted to rvr. Once my character was no longer competitive due to me not playing ToA, I quit daoc. I think many went through the same.

If you introduce ToA here, with mandatory pve grouping for encounters, you will see the same mass exodus. Perhaps even more so now, the players are today even more focused on optimal pve groups.

People don't want to be forced to pve to be competitive in rvr.

The current ruleset strikes a good balance.

Nobody here is suggesting adding Mythic's s ToA. This post is about how most players who played DAOC during its peak preferred PvE, and ToA offered a lot of content for them to do. I do think that a custom ToA that fits in with the PvE mechanics of the server will be needed eventually.

Thu 21 Feb 2019 11:13 PM by Kyosji

borodino1812 wrote: ↑
Thu 21 Feb 2019 8:49 PM
I guess we all experience things differently, but for me ToA made me quit daoc. I levelled a Nightshade at release, and I loved the class in rvr. ToA forced me into another pve grind, which didn't interest me the slightest. I wanted to rvr. Once my character was no longer competitive due to me not playing ToA, I quit daoc. I think many went through the same.

If you introduce ToA here, with mandatory pve grouping for encounters, you will see the same mass exodus. Perhaps even more so now, the players are today even more focused on optimal pve groups.

People don't want to be forced to pve to be competitive in rvr.

The current ruleset strikes a good balance.

Also to add, we're all forced to PvE in order to PvP, even here. You don't see some slash command to make us fully geared level 50s. :/

Fri 22 Feb 2019 12:46 AM by borodino1812

I think the premise that most people who played daoc when toa went live loved pve, is false. It certainly does fit with my experience. We wanted to fight for the realm, not being bogged down in pve.

What is clear is that the numbers dropped sharply some time after ToA went live.

Introducing ToA here would be a big mistake in my opinion, but ultimately the devs have to decide if ToA is part of their vision for Phoenix.

Fri 22 Feb 2019 1:07 AM by Kronin

Here is a video I ran across that actually display DAoC player numbers graphed. When ToA lunched the numbers did not drop that bad.

https://youtu.be/9YHF5OnzjB0

Again this proves people are wrong on what they remember or how they see things.

Fri 22 Feb 2019 1:15 AM by kmark101

Just read what I wrote: numbers dropped due to toxic and crappy boring item xp'ing grind part of ToA. The raid/boss mechanics of the expansion was actually a big boost (lots people re-actived who left at the LA nerf, for example). There is difference between PvE and PvE as Phoenix proven this exact theory over Uthgard.

Fri 22 Feb 2019 1:51 AM by Kyosji

borodino1812 wrote: ↑
Fri 22 Feb 2019 12:46 AM
I think the premise that most people who played daoc when toa went live loved pve, is false. It certainly does fit with my experience. We wanted to fight for the realm, not being bogged down in pve.

What is clear is that the numbers dropped sharply some time after ToA went live.

Introducing ToA here would be a big mistake in my opinion, but ultimately the devs have to decide if ToA is part of their vision for Phoenix.

Not sure how you can say that the population dropped sharply without any data to back that up. I didn't notice a population drop. I know it brought me and a lot of friends into the game around that time. I know I first started PvPing around that time as well.

Fri 22 Feb 2019 1:13 PM by chryso

The time I think a lot of people left DAOC was after new frontiers came out they changed the way RPs are distributed such that a high RR toon got very few RPs when killing a low RR toon. I remember people being very angry about this saying they were now getting very few RPs for a nights play.

Fri 22 Feb 2019 1:25 PM by dudis

chryso wrote: ↑
Fri 22 Feb 2019 1:13 PM
The time I think a lot of people left DAOC was after new frontiers came out they changed the way RPs are distributed such that a high RR toon got very few RPs when killing a low RR toon. I remember people being very angry about this saying they were now getting very few RPs for a nights play.

Daoc is the blue line

Fri 22 Feb 2019 5:38 PM by Kyosji

dudis wrote: ↑
Fri 22 Feb 2019 1:25 PM
chryso wrote: ↑
Fri 22 Feb 2019 1:13 PM
The time I think a lot of people left DAOC was after new frontiers came out they changed the way RPs are distributed such that a high RR toon got very few RPs when killing a low RR toon. I remember people being very angry about this saying they were now getting very few RPs for a nights play.

Daoc is the blue line

Looks like DAoC experienced a boom in population when ToA came out and had the massive drop a few years later when Darkness Rising came out. Master Levels were kinda stale, and there was WoW, so I can see that.

Fri 22 Feb 2019 6:43 PM by chryso

The longevity of WOW along with the sheer numbers of people who played WOW make me think that people really do prefer pve. WOW pvp sucks.

Fri 22 Feb 2019 8:58 PM by antiflagdan

I have always said WoW killed many old school MMO's because I lived that shit. I remember when WoW came out and my guild (Shadows of the Moon) started to fall apart. Hell, I was on Hib Percival with the famous Staghorn and combined with Mythic nerfing his name to Erelihar (lol) and WoW releasing, our beloved guild leader and community face left for greener pastures as Oxhorn, making community content for WoW and nowadays, he is still remembered and loved by the community. Little by little, friends and guildmates alike left for WoW, leading to people being sad about losing said friends, and PVP becoming stale due to it. Guild events were not the same. It was a sad time. Our server used to be super tight knit with a lot of realm pride, being RP and all, and it was really sad to see the decline. ToA was not "good" imo, but PVE-wise, it was super cool to explore and adventure. I did not enjoy its effects on pvp a lot. I just don't know how any of the old school players reject the idea that WoW was daoc's downfall, because it absolutely was. I was there. You would've had to be blind to not see that happening all around you back in those times. ToA was hellllla-grindy but I honestly do not recall a shit ton of complaints about it on the vnboards or in game. Grindy was part of what made old MMO's great (just my opinion). Made the reward SO sweet.

Fri 22 Feb 2019 9:21 PM by Afuldan

Between WoW and WAR my guild got decimated. It was satisfying to grind ToA... for the first character. I left when Darkness Rising came out. I wasn’t about to being my PvE grind all over again for my RvR characters