100% MoC - Phoenix Freeshard

Tanks have Det 9 for 22 points.
Assassins have Vanish for 5 points.
Physical defense is lower here.
MoC should be 100% for 30 points.

Changing MoC to 100% will help balance a lot of the issues with CC and Assassins here. Maybe the duration of MoC can be lowered from 30 to 20 seconds as well.

Wed 20 Feb 2019 6:28 PM by Aenea

Old RA MoC was 14 points for %100 damage dealt. New RA MoC is 30 points for %75 points. I think it makes sense that you still get to spend that extra 16 points for %100 damage. i think it should be looked into at least. Old MoC was too op for points spent no doubt about that. But New MoC is just opposite of that. We need to find a middle here.

Wed 20 Feb 2019 7:03 PM by defiasbandit

Aenea wrote: ↑
Wed 20 Feb 2019 6:28 PM
Old RA MoC was 14 points for %100 damage dealt. New RA MoC is 30 points for %75 points. I think it makes sense that you still get to spend that extra 16 points for %100 damage. i think it should be looked into at least. Old MoC was too op for points spent no doubt about that. But New MoC is just opposite of that. We need to find a middle here.

I agree 100%.

Wed 20 Feb 2019 7:06 PM by Dimir

Aenea wrote: ↑
Wed 20 Feb 2019 6:28 PM
Old RA MoC was 14 points for %100 damage dealt. New RA MoC is 30 points for %75 points. I think it makes sense that you still get to spend that extra 16 points for %100 damage. i think it should be looked into at least. Old MoC was too op for points spent no doubt about that. But New MoC is just opposite of that. We need to find a middle here.

Just want to point out that old MOC was a 30 minute timer that lasted 15 seconds. New RA MOC is a 10 minute timer and lasts 30 seconds. So just comparing the cost and effectiveness isn't the whole story.

Wed 20 Feb 2019 7:16 PM by Amp_Phetamine

defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Wed 20 Feb 2019 6:11 PM
Tanks have Det 9 for 22 points.
Assassins have Vanish for 5 points.
Physical defense is lower here.
MoC should be 100% for 30 points.

Changing MoC to 100% will help balance a lot of the issues with CC and Assassins here.

So by increasing MoC to 100% ubiquitously for all classes that can obtain MoC this will "help balance a lot of the issues with CC and Assassins here".....

What CC and Assassin issues are you referring to?
In what way would altering MoC to 100% effectiveness help to balance out these alleged "issues"?

Wed 20 Feb 2019 7:19 PM by defiasbandit

Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Wed 20 Feb 2019 7:16 PM
defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Wed 20 Feb 2019 6:11 PM
Tanks have Det 9 for 22 points.
Assassins have Vanish for 5 points.
Physical defense is lower here.
MoC should be 100% for 30 points.

Changing MoC to 100% will help balance a lot of the issues with CC and Assassins here.

So by increasing MoC to 100% ubiquitously for all classes that can obtain MoC this will "help balance a lot of the issues with CC and Assassins here".....

What CC and Assassin issues are you referring to?
In what way would altering MoC to 100% effectiveness help to balance out these alleged "issues"?

CC is much weaker here with all the RA changes. MoC being at 100% counters the strength of Det 9 for 22 points, 10 min purge, and melee trains in general. Assassins have so many tools here, improved MoC would help down them faster.
This change would make RvR will solve a lot the powercreep melee issues as well at higher RR.

Wed 20 Feb 2019 7:24 PM by Amp_Phetamine

defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Wed 20 Feb 2019 7:19 PM
Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Wed 20 Feb 2019 7:16 PM
defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Wed 20 Feb 2019 6:11 PM
Tanks have Det 9 for 22 points.
Assassins have Vanish for 5 points.
Physical defense is lower here.
MoC should be 100% for 30 points.

Changing MoC to 100% will help balance a lot of the issues with CC and Assassins here.

So by increasing MoC to 100% ubiquitously for all classes that can obtain MoC this will "help balance a lot of the issues with CC and Assassins here".....

What CC and Assassin issues are you referring to?
In what way would altering MoC to 100% effectiveness help to balance out these alleged "issues"?

CC is much weaker here with all the RA changes. MoC being at 100% counters the strength of Det 9 for 22 points, 10 min purge, and melee trains in general. Assassins have so many tools here, improved MoC would help down them faster.
This change would make RvR will solve a lot the powercreep melee issues as well at higher RR.

In terms of aiding CC classes deal with Stoicism/Det9 tanks I can see the validity of the argument; however, the effects that 100% MoC would have in favor of lifetap casters could be over the top.

Wed 20 Feb 2019 7:29 PM by defiasbandit

Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Wed 20 Feb 2019 7:24 PM
defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Wed 20 Feb 2019 7:19 PM
Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Wed 20 Feb 2019 7:16 PM
So by increasing MoC to 100% ubiquitously for all classes that can obtain MoC this will "help balance a lot of the issues with CC and Assassins here".....

What CC and Assassin issues are you referring to?
In what way would altering MoC to 100% effectiveness help to balance out these alleged "issues"?

CC is much weaker here with all the RA changes. MoC being at 100% counters the strength of Det 9 for 22 points, 10 min purge, and melee trains in general. Assassins have so many tools here, improved MoC would help down them faster.
This change would make RvR will solve a lot the powercreep melee issues as well at higher RR.

In terms of aiding CC classes deal with Stoicism/Det9 tanks I can see the validity of the argument; however, the effects that 100% MoC would have in favor of lifetap casters could be over the top.

I've thought this as well, but I really don't think it would be too strong. That extra 25% on MoC really seems like it would balance things more, especially as players reach high RRs. I have put a lot of consideration into this. I know how fragile the melee ve caster balance is here, I am glad melee get more freedom, but caster damage could use a little boost through a change to MoC. It just seems like the right fix from all the testing and RvR i've been doing. 30 seconds is long, but losing 25% damage almost makes it not worth it for some classes. I would prefer its reduced to 20 seconds with a damage increase to 100%. Now that seems fair.

Thu 21 Feb 2019 9:02 AM by Sei

Can you stop your theory crafting and just look at which grp/ set up are dominating phoenix ?

It s caster grp yeah

And you want to up casters ?

Thu 21 Feb 2019 9:17 AM by Sepplord

Sei wrote: ↑
Thu 21 Feb 2019 9:02 AM
Can you stop your theory crafting and just look at which grp/ set up are dominating phoenix ?

It s caster grp yeah

And you want to up casters ?

I agree, Casters get both of best worlds currently, easy zergleach, easy extending VS a bigger number of enemies, etc...
And what defias calls "a lot of consideration" in the end lead to 100% moc will balance the issues with assassins as half of the argument

MoC does almost nothing VS a solocaster being PAed by an assassin. Unless we are talking lifetap-casters, and even then the influence is miniscule.
And regarding Vanish it does absolutely nothing, except make vanish more important to not be changed

Thu 21 Feb 2019 10:26 AM by defiasbandit

Det 9, 10 minute purge, speed of sound on 3 classes. MoC 100% is a good change that covers up a lot of the imbalances. I think 30 seconds is too long though.

Thu 21 Feb 2019 11:39 AM by Tritri

I disagree.

You should maybe reconsider your suggestions because most of the time, you really don't see the big picture and go for simple answer to complexes problems

MoC can't be made too strong, else we'll have all casters using it while it's already overcrowded with casters and they are already very strong on this server.
I don't think anyone want the zerg caster fest to be made into a zerg caster moc'ing fest

Thu 21 Feb 2019 11:49 AM by opossum12

defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Thu 21 Feb 2019 10:26 AM
Det 9, 10 minute purge, speed of sound on 3 classes. MoC 100% is a good change that covers up a lot of the imbalances. I think 30 seconds is too long though.

Are you still proposing changes based on the fact that you are playing a solo wizard on a « classic » server and get killed by assassins? Come on man.

MoC is an ability that rewards bad gameplay. You need to have a disadvantage to be able to cast uninterrupted.

A spec nuker will kill almost anything in 5 nukes or less. I don’t see how 100% moc helps with cc?

By the way you are playing possibly the worst solo class in the game. Any other caster on alb is better than a wizard...

Thu 21 Feb 2019 12:50 PM by dudis

Dimir wrote: ↑
Wed 20 Feb 2019 7:06 PM
Just want to point out that old MOC was a 30 minute timer that lasted 15 seconds. New RA MOC is a 10 minute timer and lasts 30 seconds. So just comparing the cost and effectiveness isn't the whole story.

Funny how everyone seem to ignore this post

Thu 21 Feb 2019 1:19 PM by Sepplord

Tritri wrote: ↑
Thu 21 Feb 2019 11:39 AM
You should maybe reconsider your suggestions because most of the time, you really don't see the big picture and go for simple answer to complexes problems

10/10 summary

/thread

Thu 21 Feb 2019 6:11 PM by defiasbandit

We play on a server with Det 9 for 22 points. Skalds with det 9 and 5 point SoS. Purge on 10 minute cd. CC isn't what it used to be.