pathfinding - Phoenix Freeshard

Can we adjust PF to like it was on classic?

Keen Sight Self-Only
Slvl: Spell Name: Effect:
6 Sharpened Senses +20 Dexterity & Quickness
12 Keen Sight +27 Dexterity & Quickness
19 Enhanced Senses +36 Dexterity & Quickness
29 Honed Reflexes +48 Dexterity & Quickness
40 Superior Coordination +62 Dexterity & Quickness
48 Perfect Acuity +72 Dexterity & Quickness
Speed of the Forest Self-Only
9 Forest Shadow 35% Speed increase, 20 seconds
16 Greater Forest Shadow 50% Speed increase, 25 seconds
25 Forest Spirit 65% Speed increase, 35 seconds
34 Greater Forest Spirit 80% Speed increase, 45 seconds
43 Forest Phantom 95% Speed increase, 50 seconds
Inner Strength Self-Only
2 Determination +12 Armor Factor
4 Perserverance +14 Armor Factor
8 Self Control +18 Armor Factor
11 Iron Will +21 Armor Factor
14 Resolution +24 Armor Factor
18 Devotion +28 Armor Factor
23 Steel Mind +33 Armor Factor
31 Inner Strength +41 Armor Factor
42 Invincibility +52 Armor Factor
Strength of Will Self-Only
3 Vigorous Will +13 Strength
7 Strength of Will +19 Strength
13 Fortification of Will +26 Strength
20 Focus of Will +36 Strength
30 Power of Will +49 Strength
39 Force of Will +60 Strength
50 Sovereign Will +75 Strength
Sharpened Strike Self-Only
5 Piercing Strike Adds 1.4 Dmg. per sec.
10 Incisive Strike Adds 1.8 Dmg. per sec.
15 Cutting Strike Adds 2.9 Dmg. per sec.
21 Sharpened Strike Adds 4.2 Dmg. per sec.
27 Precision Strike Adds 5.4 Dmg. per sec.
36 Unerring Strike Adds 7.3 Dmg. per sec.
46 Perfect Strike Adds 9.4 Dmg. per sec.

Sun 10 Feb 2019 1:22 PM by inoeth

actually it is like it was in classic, pf and bc was bumped in 1.69 i think... still i would really like to get that bumped here too since its pretty useless to spec when buff pots are even stronger lol

Sun 10 Feb 2019 1:54 PM by Luluko

inoeth wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Feb 2019 1:22 PM
actually it is like it was in classic, pf and bc was bumped in 1.69 i think... still i would really like to get that bumped here too since its pretty useless to spec when buff pots are even stronger lol

well you still get specc af/damage add and speed shout which you cant get from pots and save some money for pots and af charge

Sun 10 Feb 2019 3:23 PM by Zansobar

inoeth wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Feb 2019 1:22 PM
actually it is like it was in classic, pf and bc was bumped in 1.69 i think... still i would really like to get that bumped here too since its pretty useless to spec when buff pots are even stronger lol

Buff pots aren't stronger as you get 1.25 the delve in stats since the Ranger is buff class. That top dex/qui buff which delves at 48 actually gives 62 dex/qui while the dex/qui buff pot only gives 39.

Sun 10 Feb 2019 3:42 PM by inoeth

Zansobar wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Feb 2019 3:23 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Feb 2019 1:22 PM
actually it is like it was in classic, pf and bc was bumped in 1.69 i think... still i would really like to get that bumped here too since its pretty useless to spec when buff pots are even stronger lol

Buff pots aren't stronger as you get 1.25 the delve in stats since the Ranger is buff class. That top dex/qui buff which delves at 48 actually gives 62 dex/qui while the dex/qui buff pot only gives 39.

charges gives you 75 so its not worth specing
btw 50 PF LOL

Sun 10 Feb 2019 4:30 PM by Luluko

inoeth wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Feb 2019 3:42 PM
Zansobar wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Feb 2019 3:23 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Feb 2019 1:22 PM
actually it is like it was in classic, pf and bc was bumped in 1.69 i think... still i would really like to get that bumped here too since its pretty useless to spec when buff pots are even stronger lol

Buff pots aren't stronger as you get 1.25 the delve in stats since the Ranger is buff class. That top dex/qui buff which delves at 48 actually gives 62 dex/qui while the dex/qui buff pot only gives 39.

charges gives you 75 so its not worth specing
btw 50 PF LOL

well 50 isnt but 39 or 42 certainly if you play melee ranger and if you only go 18cd you still get like 30 in archery seems pretty good to me but I have no experience since I dont play one but feel free to elaborate

Sun 10 Feb 2019 4:53 PM by inoeth

Luluko wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Feb 2019 4:30 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Feb 2019 3:42 PM
Zansobar wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Feb 2019 3:23 PM
Buff pots aren't stronger as you get 1.25 the delve in stats since the Ranger is buff class. That top dex/qui buff which delves at 48 actually gives 62 dex/qui while the dex/qui buff pot only gives 39.

charges gives you 75 so its not worth specing
btw 50 PF LOL
well 50 isnt but 39 or 42 certainly if you play melee ranger and if you only go 18cd you still get like 30 in archery seems pretty good to me but I have no experience since I dont play one but feel free to elaborate

still not worth.... why would i skill for something when a charged buff is even better? dosnt make any sense

Sun 10 Feb 2019 5:01 PM by Zansobar

inoeth wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Feb 2019 4:53 PM
Luluko wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Feb 2019 4:30 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Feb 2019 3:42 PM
charges gives you 75 so its not worth specing
btw 50 PF LOL
well 50 isnt but 39 or 42 certainly if you play melee ranger and if you only go 18cd you still get like 30 in archery seems pretty good to me but I have no experience since I dont play one but feel free to elaborate

still not worth.... why would i skill for something when a charged buff is even better? dosnt make any sense

Charge buffs cost money and have a 1 minute recast timer, I believe. Most people are just going to do the combo pots no matter what since you get all the buffs in one charge.

Sun 10 Feb 2019 5:24 PM by Sepplord

I Bad Speicher a Bit of PF back in Classic despite even having buffpots...the DA isnt that bad and the speedcharge is invaluable for chasing/resetting fights

Sun 10 Feb 2019 6:30 PM by Emeryc

As someone who played with 48PF on live pre-ToA, I agree that the PF line is obsolete with buff pots/charges.

Dex/Quick can be done with a charge
Str can be done with pot
AF is nice, especially since it works on Phoenix (never worked correctly on old live.)
DA can be done (and done better: PF is 9.2dps, charge is 11.3dps) with a charge
Speedburst is useless in about 95% of battle scenarios as it is broken by everything more than a wink in the Rangers direction

I am a firm believer that anything SPECCED for should be more powerful than any pot or charge can emulate. It's just not fair/right that everyone else can do what a Ranger/Hunter/Buffing Class must spec in order to do. It's been stated by the devs that pots/charges will not be changed, so I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for a buff to the PF (and BC) lines.

Sun 10 Feb 2019 6:33 PM by Quik

Emeryc wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Feb 2019 6:30 PM
As someone who played with 48PF on live pre-ToA, I agree that the PF line is obsolete with buff pots/charges.

Dex/Quick can be done with a charge
Str can be done with pot
AF is nice, especially since it works on Phoenix (never worked correctly on old live.)
DA can be done (and done better: PF is 9.2dps, charge is 11.3dps) with a charge
Speedburst is useless in about 95% of battle scenarios as it is broken by everything more than a wink in the Rangers direction

I am a firm believer that anything SPECCED for should be more powerful than any pot or charge can emulate. It's just not fair/right that everyone else can do what a Ranger/Hunter/Buffing Class must spec in order to do. It's been stated by the devs that pots/charges will not be changed, so I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for a buff to the PF (and BC) lines.

I said over and over in beta that pots ruined classes like Rangers that depended on self buffs for these exact reasons.

Why play a ranger when you can play a scout and have the same buffs PLUS slam or Hunter gets his pet...Ranger gets screwed but people don't care as long as they get their pots.

Sun 10 Feb 2019 9:24 PM by Luluko

Emeryc wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Feb 2019 6:30 PM
As someone who played with 48PF on live pre-ToA, I agree that the PF line is obsolete with buff pots/charges.

Dex/Quick can be done with a charge
Str can be done with pot
AF is nice, especially since it works on Phoenix (never worked correctly on old live.)
DA can be done (and done better: PF is 9.2dps, charge is 11.3dps) with a charge
Speedburst is useless in about 95% of battle scenarios as it is broken by everything more than a wink in the Rangers direction

I am a firm believer that anything SPECCED for should be more powerful than any pot or charge can emulate. It's just not fair/right that everyone else can do what a Ranger/Hunter/Buffing Class must spec in order to do. It's been stated by the devs that pots/charges will not be changed, so I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for a buff to the PF (and BC) lines.

I havent seen a DA charge which has more than 30sec duration and only with 5 uses... also that would mean spending 20g every 10mins and everytime you fight something you have to pop DA charge and you will have to carry a lot of those. So if you have like 3-5 fights where you pop DA charge per run you would be at 50-70g per run... thats quite a lot with how less you get for killing people. But yes in overall power ranger is prlly worse than scout.

Sun 10 Feb 2019 10:26 PM by Ganil

Worse I don't know. They're not good for sure, but scout & hunters both are utter garbage xD. DW is still nice to have.

Mon 11 Feb 2019 7:10 AM by Sepplord

Emeryc wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Feb 2019 6:30 PM
As someone who played with 48PF on live pre-ToA, I agree that the PF line is obsolete with buff pots/charges.

Dex/Quick can be done with a charge
Str can be done with pot
AF is nice, especially since it works on Phoenix (never worked correctly on old live.)
DA can be done (and done better: PF is 9.2dps, charge is 11.3dps) with a charge
Speedburst is useless in about 95% of battle scenarios as it is broken by everything more than a wink in the Rangers direction

I am a firm believer that anything SPECCED for should be more powerful than any pot or charge can emulate. It's just not fair/right that everyone else can do what a Ranger/Hunter/Buffing Class must spec in order to do. It's been stated by the devs that pots/charges will not be changed, so I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for a buff to the PF (and BC) lines.

If you played with 48pathfinding pre-TOA, when buffbots were around how is it worse now? Pots are weaker than buffbots so pathfinding is relatively stronger now.

I garee that it is a bit lackluster, but somehow even in Buffbot times the ranger was the strongest ranged-stealther of the 3realms. According to your assesment of being nerfed scouts should have been king of the hill as they don't have a buffline that's nerfed by buffbots/pots.

The charge items are also nothing new to the game and were available back then too?

Mon 11 Feb 2019 7:53 AM by Emeryc

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Feb 2019 7:10 AM
Emeryc wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Feb 2019 6:30 PM
As someone who played with 48PF on live pre-ToA, I agree that the PF line is obsolete with buff pots/charges.

Dex/Quick can be done with a charge
Str can be done with pot
AF is nice, especially since it works on Phoenix (never worked correctly on old live.)
DA can be done (and done better: PF is 9.2dps, charge is 11.3dps) with a charge
Speedburst is useless in about 95% of battle scenarios as it is broken by everything more than a wink in the Rangers direction

I am a firm believer that anything SPECCED for should be more powerful than any pot or charge can emulate. It's just not fair/right that everyone else can do what a Ranger/Hunter/Buffing Class must spec in order to do. It's been stated by the devs that pots/charges will not be changed, so I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for a buff to the PF (and BC) lines.

If you played with 48pathfinding pre-TOA, when buffbots were around how is it worse now? Pots are weaker than buffbots so pathfinding is relatively stronger now.

I garee that it is a bit lackluster, but somehow even in Buffbot times the ranger was the strongest ranged-stealther of the 3realms. According to your assesment of being nerfed scouts should have been king of the hill as they don't have a buffline that's nerfed by buffbots/pots.

The charge items are also nothing new to the game and were available back then too?

You're not wrong, in general. However early on, there were no pots and very few charges. But in those early days, buffbots were not so prevalent on Percival, nor were pots/charges.

When buffbots became more common, Rangers shined because they could ignore PF and spec highly in CD, before the CD nerf... not unlike most Rangers do here, also ignoring Archery. Scouts could run a bot, too... but CD chewed through shields back then.

Mon 11 Feb 2019 9:47 AM by Cadebrennus

Ganil wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Feb 2019 10:26 PM
Worse I don't know. They're not good for sure, but scout & hunters both are utter garbage xD. DW is still nice to have.

Ranger CD damage = Hunter 2h damage when both hands swing (tested and confirmed during beta). 69% chance to swing offhand at 50+15 CD, and I can guarantee that almost no Ranger is speccing 50 CD. This also means that even with 50+15 CD (an unlikely spec) a Ranger is putting out the same melee damage as a Scout 31% of the time because only one weapon is swinging 31% of the time, yet lacking the Scout's defensive ability. Just think about that.

Mon 11 Feb 2019 9:48 AM by Cadebrennus

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Feb 2019 7:10 AM
Emeryc wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Feb 2019 6:30 PM
As someone who played with 48PF on live pre-ToA, I agree that the PF line is obsolete with buff pots/charges.

Dex/Quick can be done with a charge
Str can be done with pot
AF is nice, especially since it works on Phoenix (never worked correctly on old live.)
DA can be done (and done better: PF is 9.2dps, charge is 11.3dps) with a charge
Speedburst is useless in about 95% of battle scenarios as it is broken by everything more than a wink in the Rangers direction

I am a firm believer that anything SPECCED for should be more powerful than any pot or charge can emulate. It's just not fair/right that everyone else can do what a Ranger/Hunter/Buffing Class must spec in order to do. It's been stated by the devs that pots/charges will not be changed, so I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for a buff to the PF (and BC) lines.

If you played with 48pathfinding pre-TOA, when buffbots were around how is it worse now? Pots are weaker than buffbots so pathfinding is relatively stronger now.

I garee that it is a bit lackluster, but somehow even in Buffbot times the ranger was the strongest ranged-stealther of the 3realms. According to your assesment of being nerfed scouts should have been king of the hill as they don't have a buffline that's nerfed by buffbots/pots.

The charge items are also nothing new to the game and were available back then too?

Scouts sucked on Live because they completely ignored their melee lines then complained that they sucked at melee.

Mon 11 Feb 2019 10:02 AM by Ganil

Scout sucked on live because of the DW defense penetration bonus.
They became strong the day they removed it.

Mon 11 Feb 2019 11:05 AM by Cadebrennus

Ganil wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Feb 2019 10:02 AM
Scout sucked on live because of the DW defense penetration bonus.
They became strong the day they removed it.

That too. But considering that Scouts specced melee on live like most Wardens and Bards do on Phoenix (10 weapon) then it's obvious to everyone but the Scout players that barely any points into weapons makes them do shit damage in melee.

Mon 11 Feb 2019 11:36 AM by inoeth

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Feb 2019 11:05 AM
Ganil wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Feb 2019 10:02 AM
Scout sucked on live because of the DW defense penetration bonus.
They became strong the day they removed it.

That too. But considering that Scouts specced melee on live like most Wardens and Bards do on Phoenix (10 weapon) then it's obvious to everyone but the Scout players that barely any points into weapons makes them do shit damage in melee.

because everyone thinks 50 bow is cool LOL

Mon 11 Feb 2019 4:13 PM by Sepphiroth75

I needto spec 40 pf to get the yellow dex/quick buff thats only 8-9 poimts higher then blue buff pots. That alot of points to barely be better stat wise which is why i would like this revisited.

Mon 11 Feb 2019 6:20 PM by Zansobar

Sepphiroth75 wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Feb 2019 4:13 PM
I needto spec 40 pf to get the yellow dex/quick buff thats only 8-9 poimts higher then blue buff pots. That alot of points to barely be better stat wise which is why i would like this revisited.

You knew this going in...and other classes have the same thing (Hunter for example). People spec Pathfinding for the spec af and the damage add...the dex/qui and str are just bonuses so you don't have to buy those potions.

Mon 11 Feb 2019 10:20 PM by Cadebrennus

Zansobar wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Feb 2019 6:20 PM
Sepphiroth75 wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Feb 2019 4:13 PM
I needto spec 40 pf to get the yellow dex/quick buff thats only 8-9 poimts higher then blue buff pots. That alot of points to barely be better stat wise which is why i would like this revisited.

You knew this going in...and other classes have the same thing (Hunter for example). People spec Pathfinding for the spec af and the damage add...the dex/qui and str are just bonuses so you don't have to buy those potions.

I just tested the epic armor AF charge which is usable from inventory. It is a spec AF just like the Ranger AF buff. However, the /use AF buff is superior to the Ranger AF buff. That leaves only the DA. Spending spec points just for a DA buff is not recommended, so at this point I no longer recommend PF, except for just enough to get a low DA and maybe the first or second run speed boost. That's it.

Pathfinding is useless on Phoenix. Move along, nothing to see here.

Mon 11 Feb 2019 10:26 PM by Zansobar

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Feb 2019 10:20 PM
Zansobar wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Feb 2019 6:20 PM
Sepphiroth75 wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Feb 2019 4:13 PM
I needto spec 40 pf to get the yellow dex/quick buff thats only 8-9 poimts higher then blue buff pots. That alot of points to barely be better stat wise which is why i would like this revisited.

You knew this going in...and other classes have the same thing (Hunter for example). People spec Pathfinding for the spec af and the damage add...the dex/qui and str are just bonuses so you don't have to buy those potions.

I just tested the epic armor AF charge which is usable from inventory. It is a spec AF just like the Ranger AF buff. However, the /use AF buff is superior to the Ranger AF buff. That leaves only the DA. Spending spec points just for a DA buff is not recommended, so at this point I no longer recommend PF, except for just enough to get a low DA and maybe the first or second run speed boost. That's it.

Pathfinding is useless on Phoenix. Move along, nothing to see here.

And again everyone knew this going into the launch of Phoenix. Just re-spec out of it if you don't think the damage add is enough of a bonus to account for the spec points. The main thing that PF does is give lower level/less wealthy players the ability to get buffs (weak ones) without having to go all out for the combo potions or charge items. Eventually once everyone left playing a ranger is wealthy I expect that no one will waste points on PF, but it does fill a niche until that time.

Tue 12 Feb 2019 8:23 PM by Sepphiroth75

Actually i didnt know which is why i am asking for the the devs to Adjust pf to it was originally.

Tue 12 Feb 2019 9:34 PM by Zansobar

Sepphiroth75 wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Feb 2019 8:23 PM
Actually i didnt know which is why i am asking for the the devs to Adjust pf to it was originally.

There's a link to the character planner for Phoenix in the upper right of this forum screen...you can review details of spells and styles for every class there.